Anarchy

[TOTALIMMORTAL]

[COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]Okay, first of all, I wanna start by saying this thread is for serious discussion, not for a bunch of lame dudes who call themselves "punk" and say they want anarchy because they hate authority and **** like that, that's stupid. Anyways, the reason I'm writing this is because, for a 14 year old guy, I'd say I'm rather mature and intelligent when it comes to politics. So, I just want to know what you all think about anarchy. Here's my opinion: Anarchy is simply the ultimate form of democracy, and I wish that one day the whole world can adopt this way of life. In case you don't know, anarchy pretty much means no politics, no government, no leader, nobody to tell you what to do. No authority. But here's the thing, anarchy could only possibly exist under two conditions.

1. That the entire world adopts anarchy as their form of politics, or lack thereof, whatever you want to call it.

2. That our society, and this means the entire world, is intelligent enough to run themselves, and intelligent enough to have common sense and morals.

Now I'll start discussing this. As for number 1, it's fairly obvious why the whole world would have to have anarchy for it to work. For example, if the whole world had anarchy except for, let's say Japan, then it would be Pearl Harbor all over again, only much worse. If one country has anarchy, and no leadership, then other countries would try to quench their power-hungry thirsts by taking over that country. But if the whole world had anarchy, then, at least hopefully, everyone would be equal as they should be, and there would be no corrupt leaders to start wars and other conflicts.

As for number 2, this one is much more important. Anarchy would only work in a world filled with intelligent citizens that can take care of themselves and their basic needs. If they can take care of themselves then what's the point of some higher authority to tell them what to do? If anarchy existed, then there would most likely be no laws either. Therefore, society would have to be compromised of individuals who know right from wrong, now what to do and not to do, and don't do things that would endanger themselves or others around them. This is the hard part. In a world of anarchy, schools, along with good parenting, would be extremely important. It would be the parents/teachers jobs to teach the kids a good sense of judgement, along with high moral standards. Eventually, our planet would have a new standard of living, one of equality and peacefulness.

I hope this all makes sense. It really is my dream and hope that one day, probably not for many centuries, that our world will be compromised of anarchy. If anarchy was used properly just like it should be, then all of our world's basic problems would be solved. There would still of course be problems like natural resources, that can never be changed, but if anarchy existed in the right way, then our world and the people compromising it could learn to accept the ways of peacefulness, sharing, good values, and many other things like that that people do need to learn nowadays. If anarchy existed there would never be any wars, fights, disputes, etc. I know this is a stretch though. It seems almost impossible to comprehend a peaceful Earth, one with no wars and the utmost intelligence and peacefulness, but I think one good thing about humans is that we can learn to change. And change is what we need. I hope some of you out there agree with what I'm trying to say. Well, that's pretty much all I have to say. Please tell me what you all think about this subject, I'd really like to know. All in all, Anarchy is what we need, Anarchy is the future.....[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

As good as this sounds, it's never going to happen. People can't run themselves. The thought that people will have common sense is, well, stupid. Just as we can't eliminate all stupid and/or evil people, we can't stop people from being stupid or evil.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Your argument is flawed, because Anarchy could never be the true form of democracy. Anarchy consists of the absence of political authority, where democracy is political authority as voted upon by the masses.

Anarchy itself breeds chaos simply because every single person would have to have the exact same goals and principles. Lawlessness cannot breed equality because nature is constantly evolving and changing. Anarchy has the same short comings as communism where there is a significant possibility that not only will a person not be able to do a job that they love but they won?t even be able to attempt to follow their dreams.

For Anarchy to work in a social format every person would have to love their social position equally. And that is impossible, it is much better to try and find a feasible political/social belief than to bother pondering one that would never work.[/color]

[2010DigitalBoy]

I like the idea, but as you said in the last paragraph, it won't happen in the next few centuries. Also, Morpheus, if everyone evolved to the point where they all had common sense, maybe it would work. Maybe anarchy would bring about common sense. The one problem, though, is that with the entire world being lawless, there would be nothing to prevent one person from sparking war, or ruling the world. On that note, I suddenly really want anarchy :devil: .

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='Morpheus']As good as this sounds, it's never going to happen. People can't run themselves. The thought that people will have common sense is, well, stupid. Just as we can't eliminate all stupid and/or evil people, we can't stop people from being stupid or evil.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]This is true. There will never be a time where Anarchy would work nor would it even be a good idea if it did work. We couldn't relate to eachother as people if we didn't have governments, there would always be war and battles going on. That's not something I'd wish for. Haven't you read Lord of the Flies? Without law or order of some sort, we'd all be wild. One of our human insticts many do not realize is the ability to kill weaker beings, who's to stop us from doing evil or punish us if we do something considered "un-moral"? No one because it wouldn't be un-moral. There would be no law. We will not punish ourselves thats for sure. I don't think humans will ever learn to be completely-intelligent and run ourselves because lets face it, we're only humans. It's like the saying goes "Two bricks is stronger then one" If we all could run ourselves, where would the bond that keeps us together be? [/SIZE]

[Sword Breaker]

Yeah seriously... Why the hell would you want Anarchy? That's like taking a gigantic step backwards in everything that mankind has achived!!Because there will be no more money to fund Science, the world would come to a complete standstill. The strong would take all the food, and the weak would be left nothing! Besides, if there was no government, there would be no Health Care in Canada, and were already to poor as it is! Furthermore, care to guess how long homless people would last in Anarchy? 5 days at the max. Yep, that sure is the ultimate utopia.

Not just that either, but without laws, what's to stop a post-apocaliptic warzone from becoming a reality? How many movies about a lawless future do you have to see, for the love of chirst, to understand that it just wont work? Anarchy is completly idiotic, no matter how its looks at.

[Decadence]

[color=silver]Heres a link to a place that helped me understand what true anarchy is about.
[url]http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/anarchist-manifesto.html[/url]

And Communisism in its truest form is nothing but a working anarchy, there are no governemtns people just work for the good of man kind.[/color]

[CaptainAnarchy]

[QUOTE=TOTALIMMORTAL][COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]Okay, first of all, I wanna start by saying this thread is for serious discussion, not for a bunch of lame dudes who call themselves "punk" and say they want anarchy because they hate authority and **** like that, that's stupid. Anyways, the reason I'm writing this is because, for a 14 year old guy, I'd say I'm rather mature and intelligent when it comes to politics. So, I just want to know what you all think about anarchy. Here's my opinion: Anarchy is simply the ultimate form of democracy, and I wish that one day the whole world can adopt this way of life. In case you don't know, anarchy pretty much means no politics, no government, no leader, nobody to tell you what to do. No authority. But here's the thing, anarchy could only possibly exist under two conditions.

1. That the entire world adopts anarchy as their form of politics, or lack thereof, whatever you want to call it.

2. That our society, and this means the entire world, is intelligent enough to run themselves, and intelligent enough to have common sense and morals.

Now I'll start discussing this. As for number 1, it's fairly obvious why the whole world would have to have anarchy for it to work. For example, if the whole world had anarchy except for, let's say Japan, then it would be Pearl Harbor all over again, only much worse. If one country has anarchy, and no leadership, then other countries would try to quench their power-hungry thirsts by taking over that country. But if the whole world had anarchy, then, at least hopefully, everyone would be equal as they should be, and there would be no corrupt leaders to start wars and other conflicts.

As for number 2, this one is much more important. Anarchy would only work in a world filled with intelligent citizens that can take care of themselves and their basic needs. If they can take care of themselves then what's the point of some higher authority to tell them what to do? If anarchy existed, then there would most likely be no laws either. Therefore, society would have to be compromised of individuals who know right from wrong, now what to do and not to do, and don't do things that would endanger themselves or others around them. This is the hard part. In a world of anarchy, schools, along with good parenting, would be extremely important. It would be the parents/teachers jobs to teach the kids a good sense of judgement, along with high moral standards. Eventually, our planet would have a new standard of living, one of equality and peacefulness.

I hope this all makes sense. It really is my dream and hope that one day, probably not for many centuries, that our world will be compromised of anarchy. If anarchy was used properly just like it should be, then all of our world's basic problems would be solved. There would still of course be problems like natural resources, that can never be changed, but if anarchy existed in the right way, then our world and the people compromising it could learn to accept the ways of peacefulness, sharing, good values, and many other things like that that people do need to learn nowadays. If anarchy existed there would never be any wars, fights, disputes, etc. I know this is a stretch though. It seems almost impossible to comprehend a peaceful Earth, one with no wars and the utmost intelligence and peacefulness, but I think one good thing about humans is that we can learn to change. And change is what we need. I hope some of you out there agree with what I'm trying to say. Well, that's pretty much all I have to say. Please tell me what you all think about this subject, I'd really like to know. All in all, Anarchy is what we need, Anarchy is the future.....[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Agreed fully. I am an Anarchist. I am proud of my belief, and it would be a better world if Anarchy took hold, and everyone was mature enough to be civilized and take care of themselves without a leader...or in my opinion a slavemaster.

[Adahn]

[size=2]If the laws of entropy applied to governments, then anarchy would be the most stable (disorderly) form. Perhaps that is what happens. The cyclic way in which our governments move is somewhat representative of this. I would call a democratic republic the most ordered government; a balance of monarchical, aristocratic, and democratic elements. Such order is just waiting for a shift to something much simpler, such as despotism. People like to follow, and no matter how many leaders you kill/depose, there will always be someone there to allay the fears of the masses and restore 'order'. The order will become more and more complex until once again, it collapses. What you're suggesting is just the step immediately before a tyrrany/monarchy. We humans are unnatural. We see something disorderly and try to make it orderly. When entropy catches up to us, you may have your wish, but it will not come without a price.[/size]

[font=Verdana][size=2]I need a nap, so I'm sorry if none of that made sense.[/size][/font]

[W00t,iM uNbAnNd]

Yeah, well thats just it, never will every person in the world feel that way. There will always be evil people, who might band together and it would be a dictatorship again. I believe in the Social Contract Theory, where a group of people bascially got together and agreed to let people rule them in a State ( an example is the United States of America).

Another thing, how would work be continued? From what some of my Anarchist friends have said, everyone works and does their work and its "shared". Well, people wont have that incentive to want to do things like make cars or computers. They sure as hell wouldnt want to work at dangerous places involving dangerous machinery. Money, as sad as it is to say, is the incentive for [I]most[/I] people to want to work to help anyone else.

I strongly disagree with Anarchy, as it would never work. I am a Bush supporter actually. :)

[James]

[color=#334366]I just don't think that anarchy is an appropriate natural state for a human society. Even the most basic tribes and colonies in different parts of the world have some sort of heirarchy and social organization. Even completely unintelligent and simplistic [i]insects[/i] have a stable organization. In that case you could argue that they have no actual leader as such...but remember, they are all drones who don't think and who simply do what they are biologically programmed to do.

Humans are different. We have different opinions/philosophies/lifestyles/etc...

This alone makes anarchy impossible. I think that human beings are really built for a society and there are many other species that have heirarchies within their own societies, as a way of maintaining some semblance of control (and therefore, stability, allowing for safety and perpetuation of the species).

I think it's understandable that teenagers would like the concept of anarchy (because teenagers are naturally rebellious or whatever), but in all seriousness, I think it just demonstrates a lack of understanding as to a) why our societies function and b) why anarchy really can't work, if only due to human nature.[/color]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]Shado Mage: you said that Communism (true communism) is working anarchy - I'd have to disagree with that. You gave a link to a site describing the Anarchist Manifesto, and while it says anarchy approves organization, it's for the protection of freedom, which is different from a Utopian society in which everyone works for the good of everyone else. Communism also implements a higher force that regulates everything, i.e. government. Even in a small group of people, I believe it promotes that. If not, let me know, since the knowledge of the true Marxist principal is evading me at the moment.

What the definition of anarchy as provided by Shado Mage, is really a step towards a utopian society which, if you've ever discussed a utopia, someone should have mentioned they can't exist.

Likewise, anarchy (if you actually read the link) can't exist. People are too dumb to ever even try and accept anarchy. That, couple with conditioning that is nearly impossible to eradicate and our own human biology which, evidence being the stupidity of many humans today, still hasn't wiped out centuries of primal instincts, which are, uhm... opposite of anarchy?


If you're talking about the type of anarchy with no organization whatsoever, then it can't exist either. Humans, for whatever reason, are obsessive compulsive. We NEED order. Ken (DeathKnight) has pointed out several times in his myO at the rest of the world (nature) is chaos at its finest. We are the only ones who need order for whatever reason.

I think we strive for something like "true" anarchy, or utopias in a quest to want everything. Not only to we want knowledge, truth, beauty, but also happiness and freedom. We want everything, and we're constantly coming up with more "efficient" (Or not efficient, if you choose to look at it that way) forms of government to achieve that. And I hate to sound cliche by using terms from [i]Full Metal Alchemist[/i] , but things operate on equivalent exchange. You can't get something for nothing. We can't create the perfect society with everything that we want because what would we exchange? Nothing!

Besides, the major thing you have to realize is [b]people are stupid[/b]. Plain and simple. Friggin' retards. There's no getting over the fact. As soon as you recognize this, the sooner you can realize that utopias and anarchy don't work. I realize, Totalimmortal, that you are one of the few who are smart. The fact that you can think of the greatness of what an anarchist society would do for our world says a lot about your intelligence. But not everyone is as smart as you are, and so, the society that you propose (utopia) where everyone does everything right, just will never be a reality. Unfortunately.

I lean towards intellectual elitism, or government run by the smart and the competent. But even I recognize the major flaw of human stupidity. How do you determine who is "good enough?" No matter how many standards you set, some dumb people will just fly under the radar and into the government. So that's screwed.

We can't create utopias. The closest anyone has come is probably Socialistic countries like Sweden, and we're not getting any closer. lol. Anarchy has long been killed by the masses for many many reasons, chiefly their stupidity (by the way, I myself, acknowledge my own flaws and stupidity).

In short: People are stupid and flawed, and therefore anarchy can't exist. If everyone were perfect, as theorized by totalimmortal, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and we'd already being operating under anarchy. =)


P.S.: Forgot to mention this: Anyone ever read Aldous Huxley's [i]Brave New World[/i]? I thought of that when I was responding to this thread. It has a lot to do with utopias and my theory of equivalent exchange buds from its ending chapters.[/color]

[Guest Heezay]

I just can't agree with anarchy, it sounds like a utopia to me, no matter how hard someone may argue. There are people who can and will take advantage of no law and order. I don't think that anarchy is the purest form of democracy.

[Fall]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Its a nice idea. Yes, yes it is. But think, think of all the authority around now, and still, there's the idiots that break it. Terrorists, rapists, thieves, they all still exist with all the authority we got now. Without it, they'd spread like crazy. And there'd be nothing to stop them.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]There's some completely stupid people in this world, and nothing can change it. Not even what we've got today.[/size][/font]

[elfpirate]

Yeah, um... as much fun as it would be to live in a Mad Max society, anarchy is a ridiculous notion as far as our species is concerned.

I used to consider myself an anarchist when I was young and naive and I was very strong-willed about it, but you have to realise that law is a necessary evil.

For example... what would happen if anarchy existed and someone decided to rape your little sister or your daughter or something. Without law, he's unpunishable, right? OH, but then you'd say, the people could punish him... So the people string him up and hang him from a lamppost. Then his mother comes to exact her revenge for the murder of her son whom she believes was mentally ill and couldn't control himself without medication (which is unavailable because there is no government funding for medical treatments). So now the people who killed the rapist have been killed. Their families get pissed and go after the mother...and then her family and friends go after them... etc etc etc...

And common sense will not be born of anarchy. We are lucky enough here to have government- funded schools in which the very poor can be educated alongside the rich. When there is no government help, schools will dissappear, work will disappear, food will dissappear, oil will disappear, medicine, brain surgeons, and everything else that has come about by government organization of resources and from government funding... such as every single Battered Women's shelter and every homeless shelter and every hospital...

I don't understand how common sense could be born of anarchy. Even common sense has natural law applied to it...

[Guest Alchemist]

We need a loose/ more liberal goverment but anarchy would never work. People are to dumb to run themselves.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I was reading most of these posts, and the general consensus is that humans are too stupid to run their own society. I remembered a quote by Albert Einstien that I think is appropriate here. In an attempt to explain the same thing, he said that:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Which really sucks, because for all our great governmental theories (Anarchy, Communisim, Facism I guess, and a couple others I'm missing), they'll never work, because they assume that humans can run themselves. =( That's like in microeconomics - they assume that people are rational! XD [/color]