Playing Mod

[Morpheus]

I've had my fair share of incedents where I was being an idiot and playing mod, but I think a few of the moderators are spinning suggestions into something they're not. In the new [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=633842#post633842]Pokemon thread[/URL], I politely told the person that it helps to post your opinion when starting one of the "do you like ____" threads (more casually, of course), and Desbreko made it out to be playing mod. All I did was give them a suggestion. I didn't do the whole "Welcome to otakuboards" bit. I just gave them a helpful hint. If they were to post another topic before a mod was on, it would really help for them to know what to do. I think some of the mods need to lighten up and let some of the members give a suggestion without having to get flamed every time.

[Corey]

[size=1]The most reasonable answer, and probably most likely to be given to you by a mod, is that you could have just as easily used a PM to give the person some advice.

The mods do need to lighten up a bit in my opinion aswell. Not every case in which a suggestion is given is an act of playing Mod.

Some people would rather see a new member given advice by another member rather than an intimidating mod. I know you guys don't mean to be, but you are none the less. I speak from experiance.

When I first got here I feared James just about as much as I feared a broken bone or a night in jail.[/size]

[Brasil]

You know, I think it comes down to how you say things, really. I mean, regarding the thread in question, I think you were a bit too blunt with what you said, Morpheus.

There have been a few times in the past where I've asked a thread starter for a bit more clarification (when there wasn't any at all, lol) and a Mod didn't get on my case, and I think if it isn't glaringly rude and/or obvious, it looks better and doesn't really get the Playing Mod slap.

That's just me, but I figure if it ("it" being the rule...suggestion) makes sense within the context of the post, and isn't just a sentence with the "HEY HERE LOOK AT ME I'M PREACHING THE RULES!!!" neon sign flashing, I think it'd be easier on everyone, and then it doesn't seem like you're "Playing Mod," just asking a question, really.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]I was always of the opinion that people who played Mod a lot were trying to get James to notice them... lol[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Zidargh]

[quote name='Morpheus]I've had my fair share of incedents where I was being an idiot and playing mod, but I think a few of the moderators are spinning suggestions into something they're not. In the new [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=633842#post633842]Pokemon thread[/URL'], I politely told the person that it helps to post your opinion when starting one of the "do you like ____" threads (more casually, of course), and Desbreko made it out to be playing mod. All I did was give them a suggestion. I didn't do the whole "Welcome to otakuboards" bit. I just gave them a helpful hint. If they were to post another topic before a mod was on, it would really help for them to know what to do. I think some of the mods need to lighten up and let some of the members give a suggestion without having to get flamed every time.[/quote]


Yeah, and if that's all you said, then that would be completely irrelevant to the thread. You sort of shoot yourself in the foot there, for it can count to be spam then, you see what I mean?

And you don't even need to say, "It would be better if you gave some more clarification on your opinions..." or whatever. All you need to do is post your point and then ASK them to explain the reasons behind their short point. All you've done is stolen Moderator terminology and are throwing around an authroity which you don't have rights to.

I've 'played Mod' in the past, but that was a long time ago. If something bothers you, you can always report the post to a moderator.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Delivery is everything. Admittedly, I'd be lying if I said I'd never done it, and a hypocrite if I told you that you shouldn't. But, there is a line, between friendly advice, and being too abrupt. Which is why, most of the time, I'd prefer to send a PM to the person.[/size]

[Sara]

[color=#ff6600]Different staff members may have different opinions on what, exactly, is the line between being helpful and playing mod. I guess I'm on the more lenient side these days.

I'm kinda pressed for time just now, so I'll just hit a couple things:

First, as long as you are polite [i]and contribute to the discussion at hand[/i], I (personally) do not usually have a problem with any post, including those. Even when I post to merge, move, or prune a thread, I usually try to post something relevant to the topic (although sometimes not, as 'official' things can get lost in the midst of a post...it's a fine line, I guess.)

[url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=17847&highlight=playing+mod]There's an old (but very interesting) thread here about "Playing Mod" and what it includes.[/url] My opinions in there are still relevant.

One of the problems with members giving advice or explaining things is that they may not always get things right. Even when trying to be (or even [i]being[/i] helpful) there's a risk run of confusing the issue. New members may be misinformed, and when things are said without 'authority' they are someetimes ignored (even when a mod does step in).

Finally, (to bring something else up) there's a funny mutation of playing mod that annoys me far more than any trying-to-be-helpful post, and [i]that[/i] is when people post in a thread, but casually remark, "Well this is pointless," or "*waits for mods to close this*" or "**waits for Mods to spray this thread down with a hose*"

It's rude and unnecessary.


Sorry for skipping around, and I know I missed some things I wanted to hit on, but I need to run off to class.

hickory dickory DOCK,
Sara[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Wow, you actually took that as a serious warning? I figured the obvious reproduction of the tone you used in the quoted bit, plus the :rolleyes: smiley, would make it clear that it wasn't any sort of real warning. Guess I should start using more ;) and :p smilies, to make sure people can distinguish a warning from a playful reminder.

Really, if I'm going to actually warn someone about playing mod, I'll usually do it through a PM. (As with most things.) And if I were to post it within a thread, I'd be more specific and go to greater length than that. I don't give single sentence warnings, as it were.

Siren kind of hit on the reason I even posted that bit at all, though: Your remark did seem a little blunt to me. When something crosses the line from being a helpful tip about what's expected here, to a "you're doing this wrong" post, is when I start to consider comments to be playing mod. And I thought the sentence I quoted in my post was treading the line a bit -- hence the reason I posted a humorous little reminder, rather than something more serious.

Sorry for the confusion, then. I'm really not all that strict about most things, and am usually willing to let stuff slide if it can be easily corrected. Such as with double posting -- I'll just combine the posts, leave a little reminder, and be done with it. If a person continuously double posts, I'll send out a warning, but just for here and there things it doesn't really matter.[/color]

[Dagger]

This is the way I see it. Member, unlike mods, have the ability to rescue crappy threads. As a moderator, if I see a horrible thread, I have to close it. Members can actually save such threads by making positive, thoughtful contributions to them (assuming that though the level of quality established by the original poster may be questionable, the topic itself isn't totally inane).

However, there's simply no need to even acknowledge--much less attempt to correct--the OP's poor posting habits. Let the mods take care of that; all you should concentrate on is offering a decent, on-topic reponse. If you can't do that, you should report the thread [i]without[/i] posting in it.

Just my two cents.

~Dagger~

[James]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]This is the way I see it. Member, unlike mods, have the ability to rescue crappy threads. As a moderator, if I see a horrible thread, I have to close it. Members can actually save such threads by making positive, thoughtful contributions to them (assuming that though the level of quality established by the original poster may be questionable, the topic itself isn't totally inane).

[/QUOTE]

[color=#334366]Actually, I really love it when Moderators save threads that may otherwise be questionable in quality.

At times if I think a thread idea is good (but with poor execution or whatever), I'll edit the thread title (to improve spelling and so on) and then I'll add my own post. I did this in the Mario vs Sonic thread in Play It, which seemed doomed for closure early on. I thought I'd take it and make something quality out of it.

So where possible, I think that's a really good route to take.[/color]

[Annie]

[color=darkslategray]I know this subject all too well. Sad? Probably. I've been PMed several times to reqest that I "stop playing mod". But I can't help it. I [b]do[/b] use the advising button in many occasions. I [b]have[/b] PMed new members about things. It isn't like I totally disregard the basic rules of notifying the mod and/or the member. I've never been blunt or rude about it..even when the moderator asked me to stop. It's been a very, very long time since I've done this. In fact, yesterday, if my memory serves me right, was the first time in over a year I had actually said something to a new member.

[url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=45271]In this thread[/url], I was just welcoming and helping the new member to the proper forum. Now, Morpheous, the reason Lore gave is exactly why I didn't help her out with the question she was looking for. I felt that it was only necessary to direct the member to the proper forum..to get the help she/he needed.

And the little "*holds hand out for scolding*" may have been a little immature on my part. But, I knew what I was doing, and I knew I would probably receive a PM from Panda.

Knowing the rules, and knowing the consequences, I just wanted to help out the member. I'm here [on the OB] more than I should be sometimes, and I see so many things. And, I use the advisory button 99.9% of the time...or I go and bug whichever moderator is on my buddy list.[/color]

[James]

[color=#334366]Basically, I doubt that playing mod will get you banned or anything -- unless there were some extreme case, which is rare.

But to put it simply, it [i]isn't[/i] usually helpful. It often makes the job more difficult for staff. I understand that members want to help and that's fine, but the best way to help is to lead by example -- to post great quality posts and threads and to guide discussion back on track when it starts veering off course. That is the absolute best thing that any member can do to help OtakuBoards and to support staff.[/color]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=James][color=#334366]Actually, I really love it when Moderators save threads that may otherwise be questionable in quality.

At times if I think a thread idea is good (but with poor execution or whatever), I'll edit the thread title (to improve spelling and so on) and then I'll add my own post. I did this in the Mario vs Sonic thread in Play It, which seemed doomed for closure early on. I thought I'd take it and make something quality out of it.

So where possible, I think that's a really good route to take.[/color][/QUOTE]
Mm, I agree with you on that. Of course, it's a hard line to walk--there are times when I look at a thread and think, "This totally stinks, but if it just had one good post..." Yet I also worry that if I'm the one making that reply, it'll end up sending the wrong message. In-post warnings and such definitely do help, but they often seem to have little or no effect on the original poster, which is discouraging.

But, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that I go closing things right and left, even when they have a small hope for redemption. I just feel considerably better about leaving a bad thread open when I see that one or two other members have added really great posts.

~Dagger~

[2010DigitalBoy]

I think that playing mod should be no big deal. Like Corey said, mods are scary (no offense, you guys are great). It would seem more convinient if you PMed the guy, but often the new members don't know how to use the PM system. It took me a week to learn. On the same note, though, I agree with Dagger that you should save a thread. On the other hand, I have sometimes seen threads with all sentence long posts and posted a paragraph as kind of a "hint", but they continue to go short, untill a mod fixes them (like in the Worlds best soda thread). I also agree with Lore that if you're going to correct the person, at least contribute to the thread. Theres my oppinion, though Im not sure what it is anymore.

[Arcadia]

[size=1]The thing about playing mod is that when members do that I feel like it kind of takes authority away from the actual moderators. Who's really going to listen to us when everybody else is telling them what to do? It makes it harder for us to run the forums and keep them nice and organized when nobody takes us seriously. To me, that's always been the main reason why I discourage that kind of help - it's not that we don't appreciate it, you understand. It's just better to alert us with the exclamation point, rather than take the rug out from under us.[/size]

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3]Well I have not seen this post of yours, Morpheus, in context but I think that you were probably either too blunt (As a few have stated) or just giving unhelpful/unecessary information. I myself, have never felt like I was 'Playing Mod' but there have been times where I have simply made references to a rule or another thread. As far as I know, that wasn't really me stepping out of my juristiction as a member. That was me just trying to be helpful.[/SIZE]

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=Corey][size=1]
When I first got here I feared James just about as much as I feared a broken bone or a night in jail.[/size][/QUOTE]

lol. When I first came here I wasn't scared of James, just confused when my real life friends would be talking about OB and would mention his name. I always thought they were talking about me :p

As far as 'playing mod' goes, I guess the problem is that it is so hard to define. Where does the line between being helpful and playing mod fall? No one wants to be accused of playing mod, but no one wants to feel they can't talk helpfully to newbies either.

Personal story: I know I recently had a hard time trying to decide whether or not to reply to one thread, because I wasn't sure if it would be considered playing mod or not. I wanted to reply because the guy reminded me of someone I know in real life, felt kind of sorry for the guy, and I wanted to try to encourage him. I finally decided to reply because I thought the thread could maybe have potential as a 'what makes a good thread' thread, and might not end up being closed Alas, it was closed, but Panda didn't yell at me for 'playing mod' so I guess I made the right decision... (of course, it might also just be a sign that Panda is a really nice person ;) )

I think I was only accused of playing mod once, when I was still kind of new around here. I had seen a lot of other people replying to bad newbie threads, and I thought it was the thing to do lol...

I guess it seems to me that if you are replying to something that you know will be closed, then you are playing mod. But if you think there's a chance you can turn it into a useful thread in some way (like I thought could be done in the example above) then it is o.k. to reply. Am I right about this?

I need to go eat lunch.

James Bierly

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Verdana][size=1]It's all about [i]attitude[/i]. It's entirely possible to give suggestions without Playing Mod. The difference, in my opinion, is really quite easily seen. Playing Mod is often blunt. For instance "This thread is in the wrong forum. It should be in [Forum]" or something along those tones, is playing mod. It isn't helpful, it doesn't encourage the poster, and unless something else is included, it's also spam.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]However, something like "This thread isn't in the right forum, but I'm sure one of the mods will take care of it soon," and then actually [i]contributing[/i] to the discussion and replying to the topic of hand [thus making the 'this thread is in the wrong forum' a [i]side note[/i], not a beration] is quite acceptable. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]See the difference? Members often go overboard when playing mod, and while you are saying the same thing, in the second instance, the attitude is not superior, it's just a 'by the way' sort of thing. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]Basically, if you reply to the discussion, [and be nice about any suggestions you may make], then I see that as just being a member of OB. This [i]is[/i] a community, after all, and everyone goes through a learning curve. A side note like that will let the thread poster figure out what's wrong, but they won't feel like everyone is against them because of it. [/size][/font]

[Charles]

[quote name='Corey][size=1']When I first got here I feared James just about as much as I feared a broken bone or a night in jail.[/size][/quote][center][img]http://img208.exs.cx/img208/78/lol8ft.gif[/img][/center]


[left][i]Any[/i]way, as far as members offering helpful information--how about "no?" I don't see why anyone should chide others by cautioning them that their thread is in the wrong forum. It's not as if the person who created the thread can move it themselves. It's not as if a moderator won't move the thread and relay that information. So, instead of complicating a simple problem by theorizing and rationalizing over nothing--let's look at this issue at face value. Members should just avoid offering public advice altogether. It's annoying, sometimes wrong, and most of all unnecessary; we do it because it's our job. Because it's not their job, they have no reason to.[/left]
[left] [/left]

[left]~signing my post for no reason because you all know who wrote it but apparently it's the cool thing to do~[/left]

[left]Charles[/left]

[Semjaza]

[quote]Members should just avoid offering public advice altogether. It's annoying, sometimes wrong, and most of all unnecessary; we do it because it's our job. Because it's not their job, they have no reason to.[/quote]

That was pretty much my stance when I was a category mod.

There are different reasons for it depending on the poster... They want to help, they want feel big in some way, they want the other person to feel bad by being repremanded. Whatever the original intentions were, as a mod, I quite simply just found it annoying.

Every single time something like this would happen, a mod would happen upon it soon afterwards. Posting something to that effect is just going to become redundant and I honestly believe it does little more than undermine the power of the mods themselves. When a bunch of members are telling everyone to clean up their act in some way, it coming from a mod doesn't seem to be quite as effective as it could have been.

Plus, as mentioned, most of the time no effort is even made to contribute to or even help save these threads. Complaining about a spammy thread by posting "Hey, your post is spam, better stop!" is just adding to the problem. More crap for someone to have to delete.

When I come across a ****** topic, I just do one of two things as a member: I ignore it entirely and let the mods remove it when they get to it or I post in it decently, not citing the original poster's goofiness, hoping that something of interest can still be pulled out of it. I don't really know why people do anything else. Desbreko, for example, often removes some of the awful posts from a thread and leaves the good ones. It all works out.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Well, Morpheus' post did contribute to the thread -- it's not like it was a spammy post -- with just the one little comment that I ended up quoting. (You can see the thread [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=45259][u]here[/u][/url], by the way.) So I have to give him credit there.[/color]

[Charles]

Oh my goodness, [i]that[/i] is what this is all about? :laugh:

I don't know what's better: All this talk about Morpheus's tone of delivery, being too blunt, careful analysis of what constitutes "playing mod," [i]whatever, [/i]over [b]one sentence[/b] that encouraged the topic starter to post his own opinion--or the fact that Morpheus was offended enough over a one sentence reprimand, that he saw fit to make a complaint about it. In any case, if this isn't blowing a non-issue out of proportion, then I don't know what is.

[Semjaza]

[QUOTE=Charles]Oh my goodness, [i]that[/i] is what this is all about? :laugh:

I don't know what's better: All this talk about Morpheus's tone of delivery, being too blunt, careful analysis of what constitutes "playing mod," [i]whatever, [/i]over [b]one sentence[/b] that encouraged the topic starter to post his own opinion--or the fact that Morpheus was offended enough over a one sentence reprimand, that he saw fit to make a complaint about it. In any case, if this isn't blowing a non-issue out of proportion, then I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]

At this point, I was just posting about general "playing mod" stuff, not his post... personally. That seemed to be where the tread got to at this point lol.

[Charles]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']At this point, I was just posting about general "playing mod" stuff, not his post... personally. That seemed to be where the tread got to at this point lol.[/quote]
Yeah, I know. I'm mainly referring to the first page and the base issue here. For example, his advice was for the staff to "lighten up." It just takes on such a humorous effect given how limited the "warning" (if you even want to call it that) really was. And then Desbreko had to go on and explain his smiley usage. Priceless. I wish I could frame some of this.

As for the general issue itself--it wouldn't exist if members just refrained from getting involved at all as we suggested. Problem solved. The need for pages of discussion and analyzation--gone.