Views on Immigration, and it effects...

[Lennex3]

[COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Palatino Linotype]I personally dont have a problem with immagration, and I dont want to offend anybody, but there are many issues dealing with immigration, illegal immigrants, and immigration laws...does anybody have any input on this...it would be really helpful to me...truthfully I have a paper to write on this subject, so anything on it would be a big help :D
thanx[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

I'm not sure if you want peoples opionions on this, or if you want people to discuss articles/situations. Since I don't know any of the second I'm going to stick with my opionion.

I hafta say I like immigration (specially when it has to do with Italian, German, or Asian women), but its the foundation of our country. But in contrast many people, illegal immigrants specifically, take advantage of our countries' policy on immigration. And because of that we have to do things like build a 40mile wall b/w Mexico's border and California, or we have to have a fence that spans the length of the Texas/Mexico boreder.

So ummm I guess thats where my opionion runs dry, Legal Immigration good, illegal bad.

[future girl]

[size=1]The only way you're coming to the United State legally is if you're rich and people in Mexico and Central America who are coming to the United States illegally are doing so because they're not. My mother came here smuggled in the trunk of a car, you have no idea how hard it is to do that, especially with four children like she did. It's very easy for someone who's lived here their entire lives to say immigrants are taking advantage of the United State's system. They're trying to give themselves a chance, one they don't have in the countries they're born in. My mother tried to come here legally when the whole Sandinista movement started and they said no, why they denied her the visa? Their logic is, what benefit will a woman with four children bring to the United States? None, at least according to them. In that type of situation you have to ask yourself, am I gonna stay here in my country and watch my children basically starve to death or will I risk my life to at least give them a chance I never had. You think someone hops across the border and that's it, life becomes that much easier. You can get raped, you can get murdered, if you don't have the cash you get left behind and to your own devices in the middle of the desert. Do you ever ask yourself why on earth someone would risk that much, do you ever stop to think how bad life has to be in your home country for you to get to that point? People are always saying immigrants come here and take your jobs, you know why they take your jobs, because they're willing to work for a plate of ******* food. In truth, I'd prefer if the countries were repared, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. If I had been born in Nicaragua, I would have risked it and swam across that border because it's that bad over there. In the end, you do what you have to do to survive, and for a lot of people in Mexico and Central Amercia, and other places too, I'm sure, that's the best option for survival.[/size]

[Manic Webb]

I've always been on the fence when it comes to immigration (curse my political flip-floppiness). On one hand, anyone willing to risk everything (including their lives) to reach the United States must have a [i]damn good[/i] reason to do so. Life would have to be jacked up for someone to risk disease, starvation, dehydration, murder, rape, enslavement, prison, torture, and just overall death just to reach the US-- and that's only the journey here. The US used to make a big deal out of taking in the tired, weak, humbled masses. Heck, this entire country was founded by immigrants. European immigrants settled on the East coast, African immigrant/slaves kept early industry moving, more Europeans settled in the South, Asian immigrants built the railroad system, Americans migrated to (and eventually took over) the West coast, more Europeans during the boom after the civil war, ect. ect. ect. Everyone in this country is descended from an immigrant, except for Native Americans, and they make up one of the smallest minority groups. Besides, today's immigrants usually take menial jobs that keep the economy moving.

But on the [b]other[/b] hand, we don't need an over-crowded country. Illegals have no regard for our immigration laws. Homelessness and hunger are already big enough issues without more homeless immigrants crossing over our borders. Even the entertainment visa that allows actors and musicians from other countries to live here is a little too loose. Oftentimes, a lot of immigrants come into the country with no special skills, and contribute nothing to the US. And let's not forget the risk of them smuggling over drugs, money, diseases, and anything else that could further disrupt our society.

However, if there's one major problem I've seen with immigration issues in the US, it's that the government always targets the brown people. Canadians can hop and skip across the US/Canada border with no problem, but Mexicans have to crawl through sewage ducts. Asians have to go through hell getting to the US from over the Pacific, but Europeans can book a flight with no problem. When was the last time you heard of the INS busting an illegal Welshman?

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Manic Webb'] Everyone in this country is descended from an immigrant, except for Native Americans.[/quote]
Actually, Native Americans are Asian immigrants.

I think that the reason Canadians can come across so easily is because there isn't the size of the problem on that border as to the Mexican one. For example, in The Netherlands, nearly everything that is bad here is legal there, simply because there isn't as much of a problem. People just don't go crazy and kill for drugs or money to buy.

[Panda]

[quote name='Manic Webb']However, if there's one major problem I've seen with immigration issues in the US, it's that the government always targets the brown people. Canadians can hop and skip across the US/Canada border with no problem, but Mexicans have to crawl through sewage ducts. Asians have to go through hell getting to the US from over the Pacific, but Europeans can book a flight with no problem. When was the last time you heard of the INS busting an illegal Welshman?[/quote]
That last part of your quote I did giggle at. I would have to agree it seems that those who are easier to pick out of a crowd seem to get, well, picked out of a crowd.

When my mom immigrated from Japan she was 16 years old. When she got off the boat the US immigration officals gave her a new "American" name. Her birth name is Yoriko but that isn't "American" enough so they named her Dora. Her twin sister Noriko was given the name Doris. It always seemed strange to me that she couldn't keep her given name since it was too foreign.

I have also been a bit wishy-washy about immigration issues. Illegal immigration is just that, illegal. My family all came to the States legally. Growing up I have been friends with many people whose family illegally came to the States from Mexico. I live in a very rural area so we have many farm workers who are illegal. I also am friends with many farm owners who employ these workers. Many people know that farming is lots of work, little pay. They hire these workers who are willing to do hard manual labor that others do not want to do. The farmers get work done, the immigrants get employement, it all seemed very beneficial.

Yet like I said before, it is illegal. It is breaking the law. But I don't think I am worthy to judge the decisions these immigrants have made since I have not walked a mile in their shoes. What can I say, I am a fence sitter on this issues. I can see both sides and it really is one that puts you between a rock and a hard place.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[COLOR=INDIGO]Illegal immigration is a touchy subject because both viewpoints are valid. On one hand, what justification do we have barring anyone citizenship from our country? Let?s face it, most of us only have lineage in this nation dating back six or seven generations. On the other hand, we it isn?t fair to hard working tax payers to have immigrants gain citizenship and milk the government without contributing to society.

I guess my biggest problem is the legislation surrounding immigration. I think that we could solve a ton of our problems by allowing more immigrants citizenship into the United States (especially from countries south of our border). This would actually eliminate quite a bit of our Coast Guard and INS expense funds and end up eliminating quite a few of the problems that a high influx of illegal immigrants causes. At the same time we need to implement a mandatory minimum wage for the out sourcing of jobs in Latin America. This will help bolster their economy and make it more appealing for citizens to remain.

This won?t ever happen though, because illegal immigration is a gold mine for our government. Lots of large corporations hire illegal immigrants for manual labor and pay them bare minimum wage. The corporations, in turn, fund a lot of government projects and politicians so they will ignore their illegal employees. Obviously the corporations are still deducting taxes from these illegal employees (often on false social security numbers) so the IRS is receiving money that remains unaccounted for (I read an article in Time that suggested the amount of unclaimed tax money due to illegal immigration is in the billions) and they don?t care because it buffers the money that they need to collect.

Anyway, smarter people than I need to evaluate this situation and figure out a feasible solution. Unfortunately it doesn?t seem like our politicians are that much smarter than me (and the ones that are probably receive all the kick backs, lol).[/COLOR]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Manic Webb']Oftentimes, a lot of immigrants come into the country with no special skills, and contribute nothing to the US. And let's not forget the risk of them smuggling over drugs, money, diseases, and anything else that could further disrupt our society.[/quote]That's a bit harsh considering the fact that many immigrants have skills and a decent education, and they don't get decent jobs because they didn't get their degree in the U.S or Canada. One of my mom's friends was and Aerospace Engineer before he came to canada with his family as refugees. Now, he works in pizza delivery. If the government doesn't think immigrant's degrees are good enough, at least give them a test or additional training to improve their degree, rather than putting them in a hopless finiancial situation and blaming them for the country's waste of tax dollars.[/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']That's a bit harsh considering the fact that many immigrants have skills and a decent education, and they don't get decent jobs because they didn't get their degree in the U.S or Canada. One of my mom's friends was and Aerospace Engineer before he came to canada with his family as refugees. Now, he works in pizza delivery. If the government doesn't think immigrant's degrees are good enough, at least give them a test or additional training to improve their degree, rather than putting them in a hopless finiancial situation and blaming them for the country's waste of tax dollars.[/COLOR][/quote]
That's not the government's fault. The blame falls wherever he wanted to work. Is he applying for the jobs available? Are any even availible? You can't just blame the government for everything that happens. They don't own everything.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Morpheus']That's not the government's fault. The blame falls wherever he wanted to work. Is he applying for the jobs available? Are any even availible? You can't just blame the government for everything that happens. They don't own everything.[/quote]That's true, you have a point there. But there are many jobs in which the government hires you, or at least plays a role in whether companies will hire you or not. I'm sure there are some standards that all companies must follow.[/COLOR]

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=Panda]That last part of your quote I did giggle at. I would have to agree it seems that those who are easier to pick out of a crowd seem to get, well, picked out of a crowd.

When my mom immigrated from Japan she was 16 years old. When she got off the boat the US immigration officals gave her a new "American" name. Her birth name is Yoriko but that isn't "American" enough so they named her Dora. Her twin sister Noriko was given the name Doris. It always seemed strange to me that she couldn't keep her given name since it was too foreign.

I have also been a bit wishy-washy about immigration issues. Illegal immigration is just that, illegal. My family all came to the States legally. Growing up I have been friends with many people whose family illegally came to the States from Mexico. I live in a very rural area so we have many farm workers who are illegal. I also am friends with many farm owners who employ these workers. Many people know that farming is lots of work, little pay. They hire these workers who are willing to do hard manual labor that others do not want to do. The farmers get work done, the immigrants get employement, it all seemed very beneficial.

Yet like I said before, it is illegal. It is breaking the law. But I don't think I am worthy to judge the decisions these immigrants have made since I have not walked a mile in their shoes. What can I say, I am a fence sitter on this issues. I can see both sides and it really is one that puts you between a rock and a hard place.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=2] Panda, I know exactly what your talking about. That is so wierd do they still do that now? Anyways, my grandma came from Europe and she still had to change her name as well. She did come in legally, just so you know, so don't think things dont apply if your from Europe. (She came from Hungary I might add, you know right next to Austria) Anyways back to subject. Her name was "Marika" and for some reason she had to change it, and was given a name for her by a judge and then on it was "Margaret". I find that so wierd since Marika isn't that hard to say, and I've seen plenty of Americans with harder-pronounced names then that. Also, I might add I've heard alot of Japanese names. It's all a bit too wierd. Anyone know more why they do this?

As for the immigration problems, I agree that I'm torn between the two sides. On one hand, you gotta look that because alot of people are poor in Mexico because the economy is bad, most people expect illegal immigrants to come from there. Why? cause it happens like everyday. There are tons of illegal mexican immigrants where I live, that stand on the street, waiting for a days work of worth. For them, the money you think is chub change, might be considered alot. Things are ALOT cheaper in mexico if you didn't know. Obviously, they must have left because they did not like it down there, or could not make enough money to support themselves or families. Its horrible. But then again we can only hold so much people in the United States. It's a sad reality. But I can't really base a solid opinion on what to do about it. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[Harry]

Immigration is very neccessary for the United States to continue at it's pace. Maybe people that live in the Northen States don't know this, but the border states basically thrive on illegal immigrants. At this moment I have probably 2 or 3 mowing my lawn. They're nice hard workers and they work for cheap. It's nice for you to say that it should stop, but then who would mow our lawns and cook delicious tex-mex food?

To make them come in legally is just far too much work for a cheap labor source. The current system is working out great at the moment. The immigrants are making more money they would in Mexico, getting better health care, and if they ever move back, they'll be much much better off.

[dMage]

[COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Arial][QUOTE]Immigration is very neccessary for the United States to continue at it's pace. Maybe people that live in the Northen States don't know this, but the border states basically thrive on illegal immigrants. At this moment I have probably 2 or 3 mowing my lawn. They're nice hard workers and they work for cheap. It's nice for you to say that it should stop, but then who would mow our lawns and cook delicious tex-mex food?[/QUOTE]

I sincerely hope that this is a joke, as that is one of the worst reasons I have heard as to why the state of immigration is good in this country. How can you sincerely believe that these people are better off living the way that they do? Have you not realized that immigrants (esp here in the border states) have to work like crazy to merely survive here? And better health services? None of them use these because they are so deathly afraid of being sent back that going to a hospital is like going to jail, since it means that by going to the doctor, your also giving yourself over to the authorities that will send you back.

Personally, I believe that much can be done to help the immigration problems that affect our country, and that they could be done by softening the policy. Various immigrants, while they enjoy the fact that they can make a it more money here in the States, they quite often feel uncomfortable and not at home here, preferring their own roots. If it were at all possible for a seasonal immigration to be put into place, or a program of dual citizenship, I think many problems could be alleviated.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']That's true, you have a point there. But there are many jobs in which the government hires you, or at least plays a role in whether companies will hire you or not. I'm sure there are some standards that all companies must follow.[/COLOR][/quote]

Regarding the point I think you've been pushing throughout your posts...

A huge portion of government employees, when it comes to the branches that you don't hear about on the news--Environment Canada, etc...--are immigrants with foreign qualification.

And, speaking of education, it is extremely beneficial to a country (especially one like Canada, whose natural population increase is rather slow, at best) when immigrants come looking for employment, especially if they have degrees already.
It costs so much for the government to educate every individual--immigration saves money in that area like crazy.

Immigration is basically essential for Canada, as we have so few babies north of the border, and I'm pretty sure other places need it, too, if not quite so desperately.

I think the main issues with it, however, are abuse of refugee status (though you could argue that this is a different issue) and illegal immigration, when it comes to criminals.
The details of this are obvious.

(Another thing that pisses me off is how some people immigrate here and then start complaining about the fact that divorce is legal or how we don't burn gay people. But that's just a small minority...bastards...)

[DeathBug]

I love legal immigration; it's a beautiful thing, and the basic foundation of my country. Yay!

Illegal immigration, on the other hand, is a total mess. The Mexican government is publishing literiture instructing its citizens on how to sneek into the US easier. Does this bother anyone else?

See, the second greatest source of national income for Mexico is American money sent from folks in the US to their relatives still in Mexico. I don't think I need to point out all the problems in this situation for all parties.

By the way, an American caught illegally in Mexico is deported ASAP, without care given to his/her rights. Of course, they shouldn't have any rights, being there illegally. Yet, American institutions are required by judical law to grant citizen's rights to illegal Mexicans. Screwy, no?

[Harry]

[QUOTE=DeathBug]

Illegal immigration, on the other hand, is a total mess. The Mexican government is publishing literiture instructing its citizens on how to sneek into the US easier. Does this bother anyone else?

See, the second greatest source of national income for Mexico is American money sent from folks in the US to their relatives still in Mexico. I don't think I need to point out all the problems in this situation for all parties.[/QUOTE]
You do understand how much the US makes off of illegal immigrant workers right?

[DeathBug]

Yes, but there's a difference between that and having your entire economy based on it. If all illegal immigrants in the US packed up and went home today, a lot of US companies would be hurt by it for several months, possibly years.

If all the illegal immigrants stopped sending money to Mexico, their economy would fall apart. It's a question of severity.

Besides, whereas US companies make money, the US government has to spend more money as well. The Mexican government only profits.

[Minako]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=Red]I, personally, think that legal immigration is fine. I myself am a legal immigrant. I came to the states when I was two. I've lived there almost 15 years and we like it there. (We just applied for dual citizenship.) I [I]do[/I] speak my native language, but it came second because I learned English first. It's kind of fun telling people, I come from XXXX, and I speak XXXX. Everyone is in awe, "Whoah, really?? How do you say s**t in your language??" (that bugs me when people ask me that, but that's beside the point...)

Illegal immigrants, well, are illegal. I really don't know anything about them other than that they are illegal. I know that most of them come from Mexico, that's about it. I apologize for not being able to contribute to the illegal immigrant portion of this thread![/COLOR][/FONT]

[Wolfen91]

inmagination is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Lets say me, i have a really big imagonation but it doesn't control my life. It's very healthy and normal thing in NE persons life at one point