Falsely Accused

[Morpheus]

Did you ever wonder why it is illegal? It's not [B]AS[/B] dangerous as other drugs, but don't be an idiot and think that that makes it okay.

[Zeta]

Cigarettes are worse than marijuana and is legal. ;)

I suggest you read the marijuana thread I posted. Syk3 brings up excellent points. Just because the government does something, doesn't always mean they are right, lol.

[Morpheus]

Cigarrettes should be illegal. You are right in that the gov't doesn't always do what's right, but they aren't stupid.

[Zeta]

They are wrong on many occasions when it comes to certain things.

Illegalizing something that does less harm than cigarettes which were all ready legal, should have shown something.

I'm going to be blunt. You know jack squat about marijuana. Read the marijuana thread and pay attention to Syk3's points. Very informative. :)

[Morpheus]

Okay, let's get off that point. It's obvious you don't care that you are hurting yourself. Even if the drug itself had no side effects(and it does), here is a danger of marijuana: It makes you look like a Jack***. Answer me this: What is the point of smoking it?

[Zeta]

How does it make you look like a jack***? I am very curious as to how, lol.

What is the point in drinking?

What is the point in smoking?

What is the point in smoking marijuana you ask? Because you can?

All three of them cause problems, but marijuana is the least harmful of all. Alcohol causes liver cancer if used in excess. Cigarettes cause lung cancer if used in excess. What does marijuana cause if used in excess? Nothing.

You smoke it because it is the same as anything else. You choose to smoke it if you want.

What side effect? There aren't any that cause problems that can cause you great physical harm such as alcohol and cigarettes. There are no documented cases of mental disorders being caused exclusivly by marijuana. There are [i]no[/i] deaths documented to marijuana smoking alone (not count doing stupid things while smoking such as driving, though again, I have yet to hear about those on a wide scale).


Have you even read the links I provided? lol. Inform yourself. Look at both sides of the argument.

[Morpheus]

[b]How does it make you look like a jack***? I am very curious as to how, lol.[/b]
When people see someone smoking or smell it on them, They tend to look at them in a bad light.

[b]What is the point in drinking?[/b]
People are stupid.

[b]What is the point in smoking?[/b]
People are really stupid.

[b]All three of them cause problems[/b]
I thought MJ was harmless ;)

[b]You smoke it because it is the same as anything else.[/b]
I've seen a picture of MJ, and it looks different from some things, such as cars, houses, toilet paper, etc.

[b]You choose to smoke it if you want.[/b]
Wonderful logic. I should fall down a flight of stairs, 'cause I can. I should run into traffic, 'cause I can.

[b] (not count[b]ing[/b] doing stupid things while smoking such as driving, though again, I have yet to hear about those on a wide scale).[/b]

But it seems to cause problems in normal activities. That makes it stupid. ;

[Zeta]

[B]All three of them cause problems[/B]
[I]I thought MJ was harmless [/I]

Oh please do show me where I said that. I must have used invisible ink or something, because I don't see it. I said it wasn't as dangerous as all the other drugs. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

Stupid things in normal situations? Please do tell again. You smoke, you most likely will not be doing normal things, lol. You will most likely just chill at your house and listen to music, or chill with friends. You definately will not try to solve the Reiman hypothoses.

Being tired causes you to do stupid things in normal situations, that makes it stupid. C'mon man, get real.


[B]You smoke it because it is the same as anything else.[/B]
[I]I've seen a picture of MJ, and it looks different from some things, such as cars, houses, toilet paper, etc.[/I]

What the hell is that? C'mon man. Use your brain. You know damn well what I meant, lol. Read further down as to why I said that. :rolleyes:

[B]You choose to smoke it if you want.[/B]
[I]Wonderful logic. I should fall down a flight of stairs, 'cause I can. I should run into traffic, 'cause I can.[/I]

If you choose to why not? Everything is about choice. You can choose to smoke it, you can choose not to. You can choose to do good in school, you can choose not to.

Again. Read the links I provided. Then come talk to me when you are informed. Read the links. And you will find the answers to your questions. ;)

Edited to make it easier to read, I was jumping all over the place, heh.

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Zeta']If you choose to why not? Everything is about choice. You can choose to smoke it, you can choose not to. [/quote]
[quote name='Zeta']C'mon, use your brain.[/quote]

That is a direct quote. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Zeta]

Hey man I have used my brian. And in my research I have found out it is not as bad as you think it is, not half as bad. ;)


Read the links and don't waste my time. As I said, you know jack squat about marijuana. When you get better informed, then come talk to me.

[Morpheus]

Half as bad still makes it bad. It still hurts you. Why do you do it?

[James]

[QUOTE]
Marijuana doesn't have the impact that you make it out to have, lol. Having been a long time user, every day mind you, nothing is wrong with me. I know thirty year olds who have been smoking since there teens, nothing is wrong with them. You don't even have to smoke it, lol. You can entirely avoid the smoke entering you. It is the safest drug of all the illegal drugs.[/quote]
[color=#334366]But see, you have an interest in peddling a point of view. That is to say, you have an interest in justifying the "safeness" of the drug.

If you've experienced no problems, that's great. Wonderful.

But there are studies that suggest that longterm marijuana use can lead to both minor (depression/chemical imbalances -- if you could call those things minor) and major (various forms of skitzophrenia) mental disorders.

We can sit here and debate about how you inhale the smoke or whether you eat it as a cookie or whatever, until we both die of old age.

But it's useless trying to say that the substance itself isn't harmful. I am [i]not[/i] saying that it's "the most harmful drug" and I'm not trying to compare it to ecstacy or anything else, in terms of its impact.

I am simply saying that it [i]is[/i] a substance that hurts your body and that [i]can[/i] have longterm consequences. Believe me, I'm not an alarmist with this sort of thing -- I have no interest in making something out to be what it isn't. I'm only telling you the truth. There are obviously varying degrees of impact, depending on how you use something and how much you use it.

But that's not a debate I'm entering into. As far as I'm concerned, that issue comes down to the individual -- ie: how much a person is willing to put themselves at risk. Obviously people can drink alcohol occasionally and not suffer any longterm consequences (and in fact, small doses of alcohol have proven beneficial effects). But we also know that very heavy and longterm use and lead to serious problems.

In that context, marijuana is absolutely no different. Nor is any harmful drug.

But again, let's be clear: I am not trying to suggest that marijuana is more or less dangerous than any other drug. I am simply saying that there [i]are[/i] dangers associated with it, based on various factors. Those who suggest that it's entirely harmless are simply ignorant, plain and simple. I don't know of any marijuana user (and I do know several, including a best friend) who would sit there and tell me that it isn't at all dangerous or harmful.

But by the same token, those people are sensible with their use. And that's what it comes down to, ultimately.[/color]

[Zeta]

Yes. I said that myself as well. I never said it was completely harmless as Morhpeous said I did. I said I know there are consequences. But they are not as bad as everyone is making them out to believe.

Ask me this question a couple of years ago, and I would be saying exactly what Morpheous is saying now. I tried it, and now look at me. I have done a compltely 180 and am now defending the thing. Even after getting into trouble with the police about it, I am still defending it. Why? Because I know from experience that is isn't what you are taught.

If it was exactly as we are taught to believe, one would not be defending it. The people who don't defend it don't do it because it hurts you body, they do it because it wasn't their thing, assuming of course they have tried it. And those that haven't tried it are basing their views on a cover of marijuana, engraved in our minds since the early days of DARE or other figures.

I am still curious as to the validity of these mental disorders. I know that they can cause further problems if you are pre-determined to the illness, or all ready have it. I have yet to see a case where a mental illness as come [i]directly[/i] from smoking marijuana.

Morpheous: I say again, read the links I provided to you. You will get all your answers to your questions. I have provided you clear links as to where you can find your answers. Do you not want to see the other side of the argument? Why not just be a man and click them and read. Pay attention to Syk3's posts.

[James]

[QUOTE=Zeta]
I am still curious as to the validity of these mental disorders. I know that they can cause further problems if you are pre-determined to the illness, or all ready have it. I have yet to see a case where a mental illness as come [i]directly[/i] from smoking marijuana.

[/QUOTE]
[color=#334366]I'm really surprised that you've yet to see a case where mental illness came directly from smoking marijuana. I thought it was common knowledge, if only due to the plethora of studies out there. I guess not.

Mind you, I'm talking about the most extreme cases here. As I said earlier, if someone smokes it occasionally and they are responsible, then most of that information won't be terribly relevant to them.

As far as I can tell, the biggest issue here is that people are extreme on both sides. There are people who want to believe that marijuana isn't at all harmful and that it has no longterm health consequences. Those people are wrong.

And then there are people who want to condemn marijuana and focus all of their attention on it, while simultaneously ignoring far more dangerous drugs out there (like heroin, for instance, which is still responsible for a large number of deaths). Those people are also wrong.

The reason that I even inject myself into these discussions is because I know I don't have an axe to grind. I personally don't smoke marijuana (I wouldn't want someone to be put through the torture of kissing me while I have marijuana on the breath, lol), but by the same token, I don't really care if friends choose to smoke it. I know they're responsible and I know that they treat these things with the respect that they deserve.

I suppose that's the most anyone can ask for.[/color]

[Zeta]

The reason I have yet to believe that is because I have seen no articles concerning it. I have seen articles saying that those with it pre-determined or all ready have it have had problems. Show me the proof. Show me a conclusive test that says it doesn't run in tehri family, or they don't have it all ready. You can do LSD, PCP, AMT for your whole life, and not develope paranoid schizophrenia or other mental disorders. And those are all powerful hallucinigens in and of themselves. You have a much higher chance of contracting disorders from those drugs, not marijuana.

[James]

[quote name='Zeta']The reason I have yet to believe that is because I have seen no articles concerning it. I have seen articles saying that those with it pre-determined or all ready have it have had problems. Show me the proof. Show me a conclusive test that says it doesn't run in tehri family, or they don't have it all ready. You can do LSD, PCP, AMT for your whole life, and not develope paranoid schizophrenia or other mental disorders. And those are all powerful hallucinigens in and of themselves. You have a much higher chance of contracting disorders from those drugs, not marijuana.[/quote]
[color=#334366]I don't have any links that I can show you; I've read news reports (and seen plenty on television), but I'm not aware of anything on the Internet. I'll see what I can find, though.

But be careful. Note that I'm not comparing marijuana to other drugs here. Saying that one drug is more powerful than another is just a way of shifting responsibility.

There is definitely evidence that marijuana can significantly compound minor illnesses (particularly with manic depression), but there is also evidence that people can actually develop mental illness through heavy longterm use of the substance. It kind of doesn't surprise me that this may not be so well known in America though, if only because America's drug education system seems to be a little weird. I'm not even sure if any of these studies have been undertaken in the United States -- I assume they have. But I know they've definitely been undertaken in Australia and other countries.[/color]

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Zeta]Yes. I said that myself as well. I never said it was completely harmless as Morhpeous said I did. I said I know there are consequences. But they are not as bad as everyone is making them out to believe.

Ask me this question a couple of years ago, and I would be saying exactly what Morpheous is saying now. I tried it, and now look at me. I have done a compltely 180 and am now defending the thing. Even after getting into trouble with the police about it, I am still defending it. Why? Because I know from experience that is isn't what you are taught.

If it was exactly as we are taught to believe, one would not be defending it. The people who don't defend it don't do it because it hurts you body, they do it because it wasn't their thing, assuming of course they have tried it. And those that haven't tried it are basing their views on a cover of marijuana, engraved in our minds since the early days of DARE or other figures.[/QUOTE]
I don't defend it because it would hurt me, and I don't like to hurt myself.

Now look at you, you are defending a dangerous drug that is hurting you at this moment and could leave you with lasting damage. Why take that risk?

[James]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]

Now look at you, you are defending a dangerous drug that is hurting you at this moment and could leave you with lasting damage. Why take that risk?[/QUOTE]
[color=#334366]I can't speak for Zeta, but as I said earlier, it comes down to responsible use.

It's quite possible to use marijuana or alcohol or whatever in a responsible way and not suffer lasting consequences. But again, I don't know Zeta's habits, so I have no idea. lol

But I do think it's important not to necessarily apply a blanket standard to every person who uses marijuana, you know? I mean, I'd tend to seperate the drug itself from people's useage of it. In this thread I have been clarifying the point about the substance itself, but how people use it is another question I think.[/color]

[Morpheus]

Here are his habits, James. You quoted them in another post:

[quote name='Zeta]Marijuana doesn't have the impact that you make it out to have, lol. [b]Having been a long time user, every day mind you[/b'], nothing is wrong with me. I know thirty year olds who have been smoking since there teens, nothing is wrong with them. You don't even have to smoke it, lol. You can entirely avoid the smoke entering you. It is the safest drug of all the illegal drugs.[/quote]

Zeta really has no idea if something is wrong. Most smokers don't notice problems until they are very well developed.

[Zeta]

I am an asthma sufferer. I have had bouts of depression due to personal family reasons. I have had bouts of depression because I moved away from my friends a year before I graduate from high school, and am now living and graduating amongst strangers. I assume you will ask why I smoke?

Because I know that nothing is going to happen to me. My asthma has improved if anything. I no longer need my inhaler as often. When you smoke your airways become dilated. You can breath much easier. You don't get the constricting of airways as you do with cigarettes. I have no had any asthma problems while smoking, nor have I had any after smoking.

I smoke with the depression bouts because I know nothing will happen to me. I have smoke for a long time, and if anything, I am happier than I have been in years. My father died a few years back and I was a mess. I would mope around the house, sit and contemplate life, no do anything. I now go out, do things with the friends I have down here, and am no longer depressed. Marijuana hasn't hampered me in anyway.

That comes from an everyday smoker for years and here I am problem free. I have no asthma problems, I have no disorder problems. I have no problems with a social life. I have no problems acting normal in [i]normal[/i] situations, even when I have smoked. I have gone to school after smoking in the morning. I took notes, I passed my tests with A's, no problem there. Did I geek out and start laughing? No. Why? Because if you are caught you get in trouble. Believe me, you WILL act normail in a normal situation if you have to be.

Morphous, potato chips are bad for you. Butter is bad for you. Salt is bad for you. I feel my arteries clogging up when I have a bag of chips next to me, or some salted fries. Do I feel a "disorder" coming on while smoking? Do I feel anything bad coming one while smoking? No. Again as James said, you eat it responsibly, you will be just fine. Same with smoking. You smoke responsibly you will be all right.

Again I reiterate what I said in my last post. I would be saying exactly what you are saying, as well as what James is saying. It isn't as bad as it is made out to be. It still has its flaws, but it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. It isn't hurting me as much as you seem to think it is. And you my friend Morpheous, know nothing about marijuana as I have stated. You'r comments don't do you you any good. They are coming from a person with one view engraved in his mind, who doesn't [i]want[/i] to see the other side. [i]READ[/i] my links Morpheous. You will be surprised at the things you will find out.

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Zeta]I am an asthma sufferer. I have had bouts of depression due to personal family reasons. I have had bouts of depression because I moved away from my friends a year before I graduate from high school, and am now living and graduating amongst strangers. I assume you will ask why I smoke?

Because I know that nothing is going to happen to me. My asthma has improved if anything. I no longer need my inhaler as often. When you smoke your airways become dilated. You can breath much easier. You don't get the constricting of airways as you do with cigarettes. I have no had any asthma problems while smoking, nor have I had any after smoking.

I smoke with the depression bouts because I know nothing will happen to me. I have smoke for a long time, and if anything, I am happier than I have been in years. My father died a few years back and I was a mess. I would mope around the house, sit and contemplate life, no do anything. I now go out, do things with the friends I have down here, and am no longer depressed. Marijuana hasn't hampered me in anyway.

That comes from an everyday smoker for years and here I am problem free. I have no asthma problems, I have no disorder problems. I have no problems with a social life. I have no problems acting normal in [i]normal[/i] situations, even when I have smoked. I have gone to school after smoking in the morning. I took notes, I passed my tests with A's, no problem there. Did I geek out and start laughing? No. Why? Because if you are caught you get in trouble. Believe me, you WILL act normail in a normal situation if you have to be.

Morphous, potato chips are bad for you. Butter is bad for you. Salt is bad for you. I feel my arteries clogging up when I have a bag of chips next to me, or some salted fries. Do I feel a "disorder" coming on while smoking? Do I feel anything bad coming one while smoking? No. Again as James said, you eat it responsibly, you will be just fine. Same with smoking. You smoke responsibly you will be all right.

Again I reiterate what I said in my last post. I would be saying exactly what you are saying, as well as what James is saying. It isn't as bad as it is made out to be. It still has its flaws, but it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. It isn't hurting me as much as you seem to think it is. [i]READ[/i] my links Morpheous. You will be surprised at the things you will find out.[/QUOTE]


You don't "feel" your arteries clog up, you know. You have no idea how MJ hurts you.

Smoking for reason #1 is called medical marijuana, and is good.
Reason #2 is stupid. If nothing happens, Why smoke at all?

Seriously, are you stupid? You say it hurts you, so why not quit(except medically of course)?

For all anyone knows, those links could be crap. Syk3 could be as clouded as you(this is not meant to pass [b]ANY[/b] kind of judgement).

[Zeta]

Newsflash for you Morpheous:

Everything in life hurts you. Chips hurt you. Smoking hurts you. Having sex hurts you (assuming you have STDs and crap). Eating butter hurts you. Drinking soda hurts you.

Get real man. Seriously. Nothing is compltely good.

It was a figure of speech Morpheous. Naturally I don't actually feel them. But with all the salt and crap getting put into my body, I can "feel" it all ready starting.

Who says nothing happens when you smoke? You get a small break from reality where you can just chill. You can just chill, listen to music, watch movies, and just hang out with friends, no harm done there.

You my young fellow. Are a clouded young man. You go and read the forums at marijuana.com. Read the topic I posted from OB itself. Then you can come back and talk to me. Your mind is clouded with the bogus stories fed to you by DARE. You are scared to read my links. You probably know I will come out over you in the end. You haven't seen the other side. You will never see the other side of the story with your mind set. No need to continue this discussion with you until you see the other side. After you have done that, come and talk to me. And I will respect your opinions more. You will have seen both sides, and I can appreciate what you say all the more than just your biased comments.

[Morpheus]

You can "just chill" without smoking. Since that is why you smoke, I see that side. It is stupid. I chill 24/7.

Sure, things hurt you, but why add smoking to that list?

DARE taught me nothing.

[Zeta]

Obviously it did if you believe what you do concerning marijuana. Or you got it from some other soruce that got it from DARE.

Chilling was just an example. I repeat, you can't say anything on the subject about it. 1) You are misinformed tremendously. 2) You have never tried it so you don't know what it is like.

Why do they have serving sizes on the food pyramid? You eat much more than what you are supposed to, it will stop being healthy for you. Adding marijuana won't shorten your lifespan. Only way it will is if you drive and get into an accident, and if you have a disorder and the marijuana somehow makes it worse and it leads you to killy ourself. Again, I have yet to see evidence of the latter.

Playing footbal hurts you. Eating chips hurts you. Drinking coffee hurts you. Drinking soda hurts you. Eating candy hurts you. Chewing gum can hurt your teeth (depending on the gum). Why add [i]any[/i] of those things? What a stupid question.

There are things that are legal that cause more harm than marijuana, adding it won't be half as bad as some things that are legal out there.

It is more than chilling. It is an experience that can't be explained. You have to try to to see what it is like. It is a different kind of fun, pure and simple. It may not be fun for you, it may, I don't know.

But until you research outside of what you are taught, you really have nothing to say on the subject. You have views that were given to you by a biased source, making your comments biased. Read the links. Then come back and talk to me. Until you see both sides of it, you can't present a convincing argument besides what is taught to you in DARE or some other source. You don't know anything about the subject. Knowing what you are taught in DARE is different than reseraching it yourself. I would trust the links i provided over you and your DARE facts ten-fold.

I have been on both sides of the argument. I know both sides. I chose the side I am on now. Why? Because I said just how far from the truth DARE is. There is small facts that are true of course. But all they taught me? Please. Not even close. Read the links, then come back and talk to me about it when you know what you are talking about. I see no need to return. Once you have read the links, PM me, then we can talk.

[James]

[color=#334366]At this point, I think it'd probably be cool to let that conversation continue via PM. Although this has been an interesting tangent, it might be a good idea to try to get back to the subject of the thread.

I want to ask you a question. Have you ever been accused of cheating to win a game? I mean, accused of cheating even when you haven't cheated?

This happened to me a few times with one of my brother's friends. He'd frequently lose multiplayer games and he'd accuse everyone else of cheating. It got pretty tiresome, so much so that nobody wanted to play with him anymore, lol.

I find those things annoying. They aren't exactly serious, but they can still be a problem.[/color]