heaven/hell

[Lady Macaiodh]

do any of you believe these places actually exist? i think i believe there's a heaven, or at least in some form there is. but i have trouble believing a loving god or power would condemn a soul to hell for all eternity for mistakes made in this short life. think about it--in the span of time, a human life takes up, in proportion, a mere nanosecond or less. yet the religious beliefs i was raised under make me afraid to doubt in the existence of hell. what if i'm wrong? that would be a fatal mistake to make. this fear, though, prevents me from exploring other spiritual beliefs. i don't want to start a debate here, i just want to know your opinions on this matter of heaven & hell. what criteria could there possibly be to get into either place, & how do we know what it is?

[Shy]

[SIZE=1]The concepts of heaven and hell are very interesting when you sit and think about it for awhile. If there is a heaven that we could spend eternity in, why would the period on which it is judged whether or not we should go there (Our lives) so short? And what of people who live extremely short lives and are killed in childhood, or those who have a mental or physical handicap. Who decides where they go? Personally I try to be educated on all subjects which I debate, and religion isn't one of them. Personally I believe that heaven only exists in the minds of people who believe in it, rather then there being a place where your soul goes after you go. It is more of a metaphor for you to judge your life and how you run it (Have I been a good person, do I deserve an eternity of pleasure living the life that I have lived, etc...)[/SIZE]

[Queen Asuka]

I have often thought of similar things. I'm scared to question my beliefs because if I do think that way, then I might end up GOING to those places if they exist. And do churches make you uncomfortible? Because everytime I go to a church, I just feel so unwelcomed and that I don't belong. But I do believe in Heaven and God, I know that, but I just haven't found a person to explain all of the things to me. I'm just a confused little girl! My parents really aren't church-goers. One time we attended a church and my dad went bonker religious, trying to cast demons off of people in my family! What kind of religious influence is that? What is THAT supposed to make you believe?

[Charles]

I don't think that the concepts of "heaven" or "hell" are meant to be understood by us yet. I don't know about you guys and girls but, the mere thought of existing for eternity is unthinkable. Just picture never ending, living for an eternity. It's almost unphatomable. I believe that the bible in many ways, is a set of rules, instituted early on before real laws were invented to keep us in "check."
I do believe that our souls do move on when our bodies cease to function. Why? Well, because we all have to have souls. If you think about it, we're all flesh and bone. Souls are what have to make us unique. One of my theorie is that after we die we, we simply move to a different plane. Kind of like moving from AM to FM.
My other theory is that our soul must "mature" until it is in fact, "purified." Earth is hell. We are our own devils. Evil exists in everyone's soul. Once, we die, our sould could merely take a new form, until all negative energy has been cleansed. Once, it has, it will finally achieve it's utopia.
Well, that's my take on it anyway.

[PiroMunkie]

[SIZE=1]I don't believe in "hell", though, I do believe that there is a place where the truely evil go. I just don't give it a name, because to give something a name is to give it power. And I don't want evil to have that power over me. Instead of this "hell" where souls are tortured forever, I just see this place as a solitary confinement where the evil do as they were in life, just to each other, and end up killing each other's souls off. So "hell" isn't a place of torture in my eyes, it is more a gradual disposal for evil.

When it comes to "heaven", no, I don't believe in that either. I go for more of a reincarnation view. The people who did good in there lives will be recreated as something else, a part of nature. Perhaps a blade of grass, or some soil, a ray of sunlight, a tree, etc. Now you don't have to be a goodt two-shoes all throughout your human life in order to be reincarnated in this way. It's all about your soul, if it's clean you will go on as something else. If it's blackened you will be sent to "the bad place".

Then there's always the "purgatory" thing. I don't really believe this either. If' someone has a (for the most part)balanced soul, they will remain in the life they were, but they won't be alive. More so that they will be ghosts, reliving there lives, instead this time, instead of actually living it, they have to watch it. The purpose of this ghost-life is to make aware to the person all the small things that they should have payed more attention to in their lifetime. The smell of a freshly cooked breakfast in the morning, a bright sunny day, getting an "A" or a "1" (depending on school system) on a test, etc. Then once they have lived there life enough to tip their soul in a direction, they will be sent to the appropriate place. If they enjoy those small things in life that they never notied before and [i]truely[/i] wish they could physically embrace them as they never did, the will be reincarnated, if they just shun those things again, and pay no attention, then they are to be disposed of.

When it comes to other beliefs of religions, like "God" and "Satan" or who/whatever, I believe that you cannot be harmed or judged by want you, yourself, believe. If I don't believe in "Satan"(or any single embodiment of pure evil, which I don't) then I cannot be affected by "it".

edit: I accidently left something out. After a person dies, ones soul goes through the "ghost-life" i mentioned above, and it is from there where they are either sent to be a reincarnate or sent to be disposed of.[/SIZE]

[Queen Asuka]

Ya know, I've had this thought recently....if God created the whole entire universe, than certainly he created other beings. If we met those other beings would we find out that they too were Christians and worshipped God, and had their own holy book and so forth? It's just a weird, yet interesting thought I've had...

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B]Ya know, I've had this thought recently....if God created the whole entire universe, than certainly he created other beings. If we met those other beings would we find out that they too were Christians and worshipped God, and had their own holy book and so forth? It's just a weird, yet interesting thought I've had... [/B][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]That has always freaked me out. What if one day we traveled to a distant planet and there was this giant statue of jesus just sitting in the middle of this weird alien city. Would that scare anyone else besides myself?[/SIZE]

[Queen Asuka]

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Because seriously, if you think about it, that could be the way things are. And what if like, after Jesus died here, he just moved on to another planet, and taught Christianity there???????

[Lady Macaiodh]

it's absolutely arrogant of us to assume that we are the only life in the universe.

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B]Ya know, I've had this thought recently....if God created the whole entire universe, than certainly he created other beings. If we met those other beings would we find out that they too were Christians and worshipped God, and had their own holy book and so forth? It's just a weird, yet interesting thought I've had... [/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]Ok, [i]IF[/i] (the key word here being "IF") this god(s) actually existed, and [i]IF[/i] he/she/it created other beings, and [i]IF[/i] we were to meet those beings, who is to say that they are Christian? They could be Jewish, Athiest, Agnostic, Catholic, Druid, Wicca, Voodoo, or whatever else there may be. For all we know they might have their own religious schpiel that doesn't match any of ours. To assume that they'd automatically be Christian, is fairly closed-minded (no offense).[/SIZE]

[Queen Asuka]

No offense taken. I was just stating that because in the Bible it says that God created the universe and so forth. That's why I was running along those lines and using that as an example, ya know?

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]Ok, [i]IF[/i] (the key word here being "IF") this god(s) actually existed, and [i]IF[/i] he/she/it created other beings, and [i]IF[/i] we were to meet those beings, who is to say that they are Christian? They could be Jewish, Athiest, Agnostic, Catholic, Druid, Wicca, Voodoo, or whatever else there may be. For all we know they might have their own religious schpiel that doesn't match any of ours. To assume that they'd automatically be Christian, is fairly closed-minded (no offense).[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I'm not automaticaly assuming that they are christians, but I was using Jesus as an example of religion because he is the most recognizable. For all we know the true religion could be the gods of ancient greece and rome, who knows?[/SIZE]

[Charles]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B]it's absolutely arrogant of us to assume that we are the only life in the universe. [/B][/QUOTE]

Come now, just a couple hundred years ago, we were the center of the universe, and everything revolved around us. Seriously though, it's not only arrogence it's ignorance. People take the idea of alien existence light heartedly, almost comically. It'll all change someday. It wasn't too long ago, that white people were the only people that mattered.(voting, GWI Bill, Rights, etc.). So, realistically, don't hold your breath in waiting for other life forms to be accepted as reasonable thought.

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Queen Asuka [/i]
[B]No offense taken. I was just stating that because in the Bible it says that God created the universe and so forth. That's why I was running along those lines and using that as an example, ya know? [/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]Yes, I know what you're talking about, I was just bringing up the point that other religions (organized or otherwise) have their own idea of how the universe was created. One of my friends in my drama class at school is writing a series of books, one of them about the creation of the universe. And from the little he had started, I'd believe his explanation over most others. The point is just that other religion, or any person with his or her own set of beliefs, has their own idea on how things are. Not everyone believes the "God" created the universe, and they may have their own "bible" saying that their "creator(s)" did it this way. That's what I was trying to say.[/SIZE]

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]I'm not automaticaly assuming that they are christians, but I was using Jesus as an example of religion because he is the most recognizable. For all we know the true religion could be the gods of ancient greece and rome, who knows?[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]Just a little FYI, whether you already know this or not I don't know, but the Greek and Roman gods were never really anything established. They were simply made up to explain certain things about nature and other assorted ideas. "where does lightning come from?" they ask, and out of the blue comes the existence of Zeus and Thor. These stories were later built upon so there was an actual story behind it saying this is what happened to lead to this event here. Greeks and Romans no longer believe in these. Just thought I'd point that out. If you already knew it, then it's just a refresh, if not, than you learned something new :)[/SIZE]

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]Just a little FYI, whether you already know this or not I don't know, but the Greek and Roman gods were never really anything established. They were simply made up to explain certain things about nature and other assorted ideas. "where does lightning come from?" they ask, and out of the blue comes the existence of Zeus and Thor. These stories were later built upon so there was an actual story behind it saying this is what happened to lead to this event here. Greeks and Romans no longer believe in these. Just thought I'd point that out. If you already knew it, then it's just a refresh, if not, than you learned something new :)[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson][size=1]Well, current organized religions are essentially the same. There are two purposes. One is to explain the unexplained and the second is to establish rules and moral codes by which society abides.

Today's political laws are derived from religious morals/believes/codes. So in essence, prior to organized political systems, religion was both a political and spiritual force.

Essentially, today's religion is no different to ancient religions. All religion shares common traits (explanation of earth's creation, morals of life etc). So I don't think you can really draw a distinction between them. In terms of current religions, as humankind learns more about the universe, you may very well find that people in 100 or 200 years are saying "Yeah, but we don't believe in that anymore".

It all depends what your own personal theories are...and what you feel more comfortable with.[/color][/size]

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i]
[B][SIZE=1]Just a little FYI, whether you already know this or not I don't know, but the Greek and Roman gods were never really anything established. They were simply made up to explain certain things about nature and other assorted ideas. "where does lightning come from?" they ask, and out of the blue comes the existence of Zeus and Thor. These stories were later built upon so there was an actual story behind it saying this is what happened to lead to this event here. Greeks and Romans no longer believe in these. Just thought I'd point that out. If you already knew it, then it's just a refresh, if not, than you learned something new :)[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I feel that all religions start with the basic question "what created the universe?", many people try to answer these questions and pass of their guesses as facts, and eventually the guesses have compiled together with other guesses to create modern day religion.

Yes I know that Greeks and Romans don't believe in Zeus and all that stuff anymore, what do you think I am, some sort of idiot? (Don't answer that!)[/SIZE]

[coolkam007]

knowing our luck if aliens ever came to visit or somthing the government would stick so many probes and what not in them they could easily be mistaken as swiss cheese..

*sigh*

[Shy]

[SIZE=1]Yep, I'm sure the government does whatever they can to prevent us from knowing about alien visitors. Assuming they have visited of course.

Can you blame them though? The entire world would completely freak out if there was any sort of reliable evidence that aliens have visited earth. It would cause mass hysteria, and it could lead to all sorts of complications.[/SIZE]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson][b][size=1]Hell is the the place humans invented in their minds..... it is their showing of the fear of death... the ceasing to exist... you may not know it but you're afraid to die subconciously..... Hell displays this fear.....

Death is nothing more than a long sleep.... the ceasing of a person's soul.... the end of a life doesnt lead to becoming a angel... if we all were to be angels why not just be angels in the first place?

Heaven exists... it is where god is and his son jesus is.... the angels are there as well.... But we dont become angels....

When you die that's it.... you're dead.... you cant think... you dont feel.... you're... .dead.....

And that is the veiw point of a lowly mortal....[/color][/b][/size]

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=crimson][size=1]Well, current organized religions are essentially the same. There are two purposes. One is to explain the unexplained and the second is to establish rules and moral codes by which society abides.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]I am aware that religions to day are basically the same, and you make a good point in explaining it.

And ShyGuy(yes you are an idiot! lol, j.k :D), You are probably very correct in saying that most all religions started by asking "what/who created the universe, and how did it happen?" And the answers will be educated guesses and theories. But then, in today's day and age, now that religions have established, we begin to question the religions themselves, and try to expain, denounce, prove faulty in looking at it. Since, as you stated earlier, the stories of "Jesus" are the most globally known, I will share my somewhat humorous explanation on how I think the "Bible" came to be :D

Ok, in the Christian Bible itself, it says that it was just Jesus who wrote it, it was his friends, and random prophet-like people. Well, when it comes to friends you [i]know[/i] that always get the story wrong by exaggerating on what really happened. Jesus did not actaully walk on water, he was standing in a puddle and his "disciples" were trapped somewhere and he was coming to get them. And they drank a lot of wine back then so there alcohol intake was fairly high meaning they were drunk at the same time causing the story to be even further stretched out. It says that "God" over-looked the writings of the Bible to make sure what was needed to be said was said? Well he shouldn't have created alcohol, lol.[/SIZE]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson][b][size=1]The bible was written by people inspired by god....

The Sea of Gallilee is not a "puddle"....

[i]All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving and for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped in every good work.[/i]

Doesnt sound like a drunk person writing does it?[/color][/b][/size]

[Shy]

[SIZE=1]Sit around everyone because I have a story on the bible that I would like to share.

[B]Back in the roman era when christianity was frowned all of the copies of the old testament were taken from the people in that portion of the world and given to its greatest scholars. Though they had different beliefs the Romans knew that in order to be fair and intelligent rulers they must perserve the bible for future generations. Well the scholars were assigned to pick the most important portions of the old testament and copy them into a new and abridged version for the public to see. The original versions would be kept in the libraries for safe keeping. Well one day there was a fire in Rome, and it destroyed many great buildings and structures, including the libraries and the original copies of the old testament. Years later historians were able to find some of the lost parts of the bible, but they were never sure that they had found them all.[/B]

I do not know if this story is true or not (I saw it on the history channel) but it makes you wonder. What if the bible people read today is not a full version? The missing parts could be very important to Christianity annd might chnage the religion entirely. Just giving you something to think about...[/SIZE]

[PiroMunkie]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B][color=crimson][b][size=1]The bible was written by people inspired by god....

The Sea of Gallilee is not a "puddle"....

[i]All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving and for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped in every good work.[/i]

Doesnt sound like a drunk person writing does it?[/color][/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]-.- I smell a lack of a sense of humor in that post. I wasn't being serious when I wrote that lil' schpiel. It's just something I thought up one day, lol.

And ShyGuy, I wouldn't trust anything the TV says, lol. [i]Especially[/i] about religion and politics.[/SIZE]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B][color=crimson][b][size=1]The bible was written by people inspired by god....

The Sea of Gallilee is not a "puddle"....

[i]All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving and for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped in every good work.[/i]

Doesnt sound like a drunk person writing does it?[/color][/b][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

I suppose Hitler was inspired by God to kill the millions of Jews too? Or how about Osama Bin Laden?... They never sounded drunk either... It may be a different situation but the basis is the same... people can claim they do things in the name of god or in the inspiration of god... but tell me, do you believe Osama and Hitler did the things in the inspiration of god?.... They said they did, does that make it true?

I refuse to believe in a book written by humans, whether "inspired by god" or not.... It's BS.... No book is gonna tell me how to live my life.... The only people I listen to is my family, my friends, my laws, and myself.... things I know exist....

However I believe in a "better" place.... maybe not heaven as some people know it.... but a better place... if thats some hotel in the Bahama's so be it... Hell.... Hell is nothing but the earth we live on... We live in hell... at least thats how I precieve it.