Your opinions on: Marijuana

[Syk3]

[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana][size=2]I?m continuing this discussion/debate from the other topic, [/size][url="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=45309"][size=2]Falsely Accused[/size][/url][size=2], since it really was starting to get off topic, though I didn?t get the chance to share my opinions on the recent posts.[/size][/font][/font][font=Times New Roman]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Another good topic to reference is [/size][url="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=43368&"][color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]Marijuana: Should it be Legalized???[/size][/url][size=2], which is where we last fully discussed marijuana on the forums.[/size][/font][/color][/font]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]Both are great backdrops to set you up for where I and others stand on this issue. You are free to use this thread to present your own opinions and join in on the discussion. This is something that I feel very passionate about due to the fact that the government has hyped the drug up to appear so much worse than it really is. As long as we understand this, let?s move on..[/size][/font][/color]

[font=Verdana][size=2]How about a little story time to kick us off, eh?[/size][/font]

[size=2][color=black][font=Verdana]There once lived a man named Harry Aslinger. The [/font][/color][font=Verdana]Federal Bureau of Narcotics director[color=black] during the time of Mexican immigration to the [/color][/font][color=black][font=Verdana]United States[/font][/color][color=black][font=Verdana] in the 30s, he set out to prove that marijuana was the cause for the radical behavior he seemed to distinguish with the race, which, in fact, was named to sound Hispanic. He played on the public?s tendencies toward racism at the time to also make the statement that it was causing [/font][/color][font=Verdana]"white women to seek out sexual relations with Negroes." He then proceeded to go through a series of tests of which he couldn?t find anything to suggest its harm. When injecting marijuana into the brains of 300 dogs, saying that dogs are ?kind of similar to humans?, his finding of 2 dogs that died ([color=black]probably not even accounting for extraneous variables), led him to produce the following statement: "Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death." Now, Aslinger was appointed to the government by, and was cousins with, a man who owned a rope company in rivalry to one that use hemp, an ingredient from the marijuana plant. Marijuana was taxed, and then ultimately prohibited.[/color][/font][/size]

[font=Verdana][size=2]And that my friends, is why marijuana is illegal. ;)[/size][/font]

[size=2][b][font=Verdana]Insanity[/font][/b][font=Verdana]: When under the influence of pot, you aren?t going to act like your normal self. You will be disoriented, depending on how much you smoked and how often you get high.[/font][/size]

[size=2][b][font=Verdana]Criminality[/font][/b][font=Verdana]: I?m not going to lie; some criminals do smoke pot. ~_^ But the drug itself has been known to do the exact opposite, by calming someone down and just making them happier and more relaxed.[/font][/size]

[size=2][b][font=Verdana]Death[/font][/b][font=Verdana]: There have never been any reported deaths directly liking to marijuana (i.e. overdosing). That should tell you something about how dangerous or toxic it is.[/font][/size]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Do any of you honestly think that I would be defending it if it really is as bad as you or the media make it out to be? I could really care less how fun it is, if it will potentially put someone in harm's way. I'm sure that cocaine might be fun for a while before you become addicted and overdose. If I was ignorant to the effects of pot, then what would stop me from supporting other drugs?[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Believe me; I too was extremely against any sort of drug for my entire life. Going through D.A.R.E., health classes, and watching anti-marijuana commercials put it in a very negative view for me, which Zeta will tell you when recalling the many times I lectured him about smoking. When I finally did open up to the idea that it's really misunderstood, it took me a while to accept it. But as I researched it more and more, looking at both sides of the argument, I came to find little inconsistencies in anti-pot information. It's like, people are targeting it simply due to the fact that it is illegal and categorized as a drug.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]And now to respond to posts from the other thread.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote name='James] [color=#334366]There have been longterm studies in [/color][font=Verdana]Australia[/font][font=Verdana'], which have demonstrated that longterm marijuana use can lead to severe mental disorders.[/font][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Like Zeta.. well, forgive me if I don't accept this as fact right away. Other than from you, I have never heard of anything to suggest that excessively using pot can lead to mental disorders. It's not because I'm trying to "block out the bad stuff" or anything; that's not the issue at all. I?ve read a lot from both sides of the argument regarding, and I simply have never heard of evidence for this. Based on what you have said, though, with no actual links or sources to support, I could understand that someone with predisposed genetics for a mental disorder might make it worse with the drug, but if it could come from scratch, I'm sure that we would have heard much more about it. Even in extreme cases, it can be argued that it's the user, not the drug, which these effects result from.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i] [color=#334366]But having said that, even medium term use of marijuana can cause mild to moderate mental side effects. I mean, I've definitely met plenty of medium-term marijuana smokers...and I don't think anyone would want to argue that the drug hasn't significantly affected their consciousness and behavior.[/color][/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Well, in a lot of cases, that's true, I suppose. You have your stereotypical pot heads who are lazy and don't really care about doing anything except smoking, which brings them joy. This isn't the direct fault of the marijuana, necessarily, since you can?t become physically dependent on it; they are lazy by nature, the pot simply brings them enjoyment. If there wasn't any weed, they would seek out a different substance to get away to, and based on other drugs, pot is arguably the safest.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]There are a lot of grey areas when looking at someone who uses the drug. I don?t and can?t condone the reasons for those who use it to get away from life, or because their friends do it and they want to be cool; they really have no liable reason to do it in the first place if they aren't consciously aware of the effects and choose to do it on their own terms. The site that I often reference had this to say:[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote name='perkel.com]Marijuana use has been associated with turning teens into mental zombies who lose all motivation. They claim that it makes it so that all you want to do is lay around and get high, that you will become like [i]Cheech 'n Chong[/i']. There is a real correlation with lazy dopers and Pot but I'm not sure if the Pot makes you a lazy doper or if you are a lazy doper type first and are therefore attracted to Pot. Some people experience fear and paranoia while high on Pot. Some people get headaches. Marijuana does compromise certain mental abilities on a short term basis. You don't want to smoke a joint before taking a test. Therefore, if Pot is messing up your life, or you don't have the self control to use it moderately and appropriately, don't use Pot.[/quote][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i] [color=#334366]So, I think it's important to say two things. One, long term use of any drug (alcohol, tabacco, marijuana) is dangerous. But two, marijuana should not be classed as some kind of "safe drug" that does no harm. Be careful with that side of it -- there are plenty of people who are trying to advocate that position, and they have no real interest in presenting the facts about the dangers of the drug. There are definitely people on both sides who want to advocate particular positions.[/color][/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Marijuana is not a substance free of its problems and harm, but when you weigh it against other such drugs, it is clearly saf[b]er[/b]. If there?s a fact that puts pot in a negative light, I?m not going to just ignore it. I?ll take it with a grain of salt, consider its liability, and compare it to the opposition (or in this case, the supporting facts). If the risk factor becomes too high and the bad outnumbers the good, I?ll gladly change my opinion and use my knowledge to inform others. Until then, I?m pro-marijuana.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]This thread is your chance to convince me otherwise, and possibly mine to do the same. :p[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i] [color=#334366]People who suggest that marijuana is harmless and that a weekly or bi-weekly smoke is fine, are in the dark, in the sense that they are ignorant about the impact.[/color][/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Weekly or bi-weekly? Doubtful.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote name='perkel.com] Smoking Pot increases your risk of cancer [color=teal](from excessive smoke in the lungs)[/color']. But most people smoke very little Pot. If you use Pot moderately you don't have anything to worry about. Moderate means a joint every few days.[/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]If you have evidence of your own, I?d be glad to take a look.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i] [color=#334366]There are plenty of other dangerous drugs that don't get much attention. For example, ecstacy -- that drug is somewhat safe, if you know how to use it. But many kids don't. And that's why so many of them get taken to hospital or die; as a result of ignorance about it.[/color][/i][/quote][/size][/font][font=Verdana][size=2]I don't see how you could say that ecstasy, a drug that will kill you if you drink too much or not enough water, is [i]possibly[/i] safe. Regardless of the fact that you need to be fully responsible when using it (which in itself is difficult to survive), there's really no comparison to marijuana.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote name='Morpheus']But it is dangerous. Why in bloody hell would you intentionally abuse a substance that hurts you? Are you just stupid?[/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Okay, then tell me this. Do you drink soda? Coffee? Eat potato chips, or even white bread? Have you any concept that things you consume on a regular basis are bad for you? We?re not stupid, we?re being realistic. Pot won?t do any more harm to your body than the crap you put into it every day. Do you wonder why someone would smoke pot? Ask yourself why you like eating unhealthy foods.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]I have a friend that smokes nearly every day, and he?s the biggest health nut I know. In a sense, it makes up for how often he gets high, but it?s amazing how much he lectures you about the food you eat. And you think he?d smoke if it did considerable harm to his body? lol And the difference between people doing pot and other drugs is that someone who does pot chooses to do pot, as opposed to doing it based on addiction.[/size][/font]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2][QUOTE][i]Did you ever wonder why it is illegal? It's not AS dangerous as other drugs, but don't be an idiot and think that that makes it okay.[/i][/QUOTE][/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]Yep, when I was totally against pot, the reason it was illegal was a big factor that supported my opinion for a while. So I checked, and you can read what I found at the beginning of my post.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2][QUOTE][i]Cigarrettes should be illegal. You are right in that the gov't doesn't always do what's right, but they aren't stupid.[/i][/QUOTE][/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]They may not be completely stupid, but they think you are and will get you to believe anything. And yes, they should be illegal.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2][QUOTE][i]Okay, let's get off that point. It's obvious you don't care that you are hurting yourself. Even if the drug itself had no side effects(and it does), here is a danger of marijuana: It makes you look like a Jack***. Answer me this: What is the point of smoking it?[/i][/QUOTE][/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]Uhh, it makes you look like a jackass because it's not socially acceptable, since it's illegal? o.O Well, whatever makes you happy. lol[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]If you want to know the point, why don't you smoke it and find out? You're clearly open-minded enough to do so.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2][QUOTE][i]When people see someone smoking or smell it on them, They tend to look at them in a bad light.[/i][/quote][/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]"People are stupid."[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i]I've seen a picture of MJ, and it looks different from some things, such as cars, houses, toilet paper, etc.[/size][/font][/color][/i]

[i][color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]Wonderful logic. I should fall down a flight of stairs, 'cause I can. I should run into traffic, 'cause I can.[/size][/i][size=2][/quote][/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]You really have no desire to present an educated response that presents your opinion, do you? Please.. if you don?t know what you?re talking about, you need not take part in these discussions.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]In response to James? posts, though I?m not going to quote each bit, I must say that you do present some good points. Your concentration of study seems to be of the long term and extensive use of marijuana, an area that?s very difficult to study due to the fact that the chemicals continue to be altered to create a more potent herb. If you?re going to find any harmful side affects, it?s going to be of extensive use, and from that, long term is the most dangerous. That?s a rather obvious fact, I think. But exactly what it does, I decided to do some research from unbiased sites.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]The first site I reference can be found [/size][url="http://www.calyx.net/~olsen/RASTAFARI/cognition1.html"][size=2]here[/size][/url][size=2]. The study shows evidence of marijuana on the brain, and how it affects the cognition, or thinking/intelligence/etc., process. Some quotes have been shortened merely to save space.[/size][/font][/color]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i]We had the opportunity to observe a group of long-term heavy users of ganja in both a Southern state and a Caribbean island. The ganja was used by this group for religious purposes and symbolized the sacrament of communion--"the Green Herb of the Bible." It was used, as we observed, even during the extensive neuropsychological evaluations that we completed, in a continuous and ritualistic manner throughout virtually all waking hours. Very large cigarettes (or "spliffs") and pipes, containing ganja mixed with tobacco, were regularly shared by members of the group.[/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]If you can think of any more extensive use, please.. lol. I?d [i]love[/i] to hear it.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]The subjects in questions were reported to smoke ?...between 2 and 4 ounces of the ganja-tobacco mixture per day, with a reported mean duration of use of 7.4 years.?[/size][/font]

[size=2][color=black][font=Verdana][quote name='calyx.net][/font][/color][font=Verdana']investigators have concluded that heavy and prolonged use has not led to impairment of mental and cognitive functions consistent with brain or cerebral dysfunction.[/quote][/font][/size]
[font=Verdana][size=2]In fact..[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i]The mean IQ scores are all in the superior to very superior range of intellectual functioning, ranging from the upper 6.7 percent to the upper 2.2 percent of the population.[/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]And for the skeptics..[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i]?one could speculate that perhaps cannabis had produced a priori declines in IQ scores for all ten subjects?data included equivalent IQ conversion scores virtually identical to those we measured for those subjects?scores were obtained some 15 to 20 years earlier, long before either subject began the use of cannabis[/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]This seems to be as close to a strictly marijuana study as possible, however, in the sense that this was basically the only substance they used.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i]members of the church do not use substances (drugs, alcohol, or psychoactive herbs other than ganja, and we observed them to maintain a regular diet consisting primarily of vegetables, fruit, and small amounts of meat. All ten subjects (as well as other members of the church) appear to be healthy and highly functional individuals adhering to a strict religious doctrine.[/i][/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Next link we have.. and I?m not being biased in any way when picking sites, this was just the next one on the list for Google. You can find the article [/size][url="http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2050"][size=2]here[/size][/url][size=2].[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2][quote=news-medical.net]Contrary to previous research findings that have suggested a link, marijuana use does not appear to be associated with an increased risk of developing oral cancer, according to a large, population-based study led by researchers at [/size][url="http://www.fhcrc.org/"][size=2]Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center[/size][/url][size=2].[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Their findings, the result of the most comprehensive evaluation to date regarding the association between marijuana use and the incidence of oral squamous-cell carcinoma, appear in the June issue of Cancer Research, a publication of the American Association for Cancer Research.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]?found no association between marijuana use and increased oral-cancer risk, regardless of how long, how much or how often a person has used marijuana.[/quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]They went on to say that there are no differences between those who smoke and those who don?t with the predisposed genetics. The article also denies the validity of the tests done by Fred Hutchinson, who concluded in 1999 that marijuana users are more likely to develop this type of cancer.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]However, the man who oversaw this experiment, Stephen M. Schwartz, is quoted saying that "...for moderate levels of use our study is pretty solid in saying there's no association, but when you get out to heavy-use patterns we can't be sure, because the numbers are still too small.? So he can?t be completely sure for extensive use, but there?s nothing in the research to suggest that there would be a difference.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]The third site that I found, [/size][url="http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=30105"][size=2]here[/size][/url][size=2], is exactly what I?ve been looking for. It?s difficult to pick out particular pieces of information supporting or not supporting long term effects of marijuana, since most of the information is quoted from other sources, but I encourage you to take a look and see what you can find. More specifically, the very top answer is very informative.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Well, I really need to wrap this up. If I think of anything else that I forgot to add, I?ll likely edit this post later, or mention it in a reply to someone else?s post. As you can see, I put a lot of thought into marijuana.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]And now, I?d like to see your own opinions. Post how you feel about pot, whether or not you think it should be legal, or just whatever. Thank you for your time.[/size][/font][/font]

[James]

[quote name='Syk3']Like Zeta.. well, forgive me if I don't accept this as fact right away. Other than from you, I have never heard of anything to suggest that excessively using pot can lead to mental disorders. It's not because I'm trying to "block out the bad stuff" or anything; that's not the issue at all. I?ve read a lot from both sides of the argument regarding, and I simply have never heard of evidence for this. Based on what you have said, though, with no actual links or sources to support, I could understand that someone with predisposed genetics for a mental disorder might make it worse with the drug, but if it could come from scratch, I'm sure that we would have heard much more about it. Even in extreme cases, it can be argued that it's the user, not the drug, which these effects result from.[/quote]

[color=#334366]I'm actually really surprised that you haven't heard about such studies. As I had said earlier, I thought they were just common knowledge. This is probably the reason why I [i]don't[/i] know of any online resources on that subject -- it has been reported so widely (and I have taken short classes that specifically deal with drugs, in high school) that I tended to think it was common knowledge.

The problem with your argument is that it reminds me of the "it's the person and not the gun" argument. In a sense both sides are correct.

The thing is though, the drug itself is what can trigger mental defects in people. It is known that there are mental consequences for smoking marijuana heavily if you are [i]not[/i] mentally unstable (note that I said "heavily") and it's also known that marijuana can aggrivate existing mental illnesses.

So, if someone has a mild mental disorder that can be aggrivated by a drug (whether it's an illegal substance like marijuana or a legal one like alcohol), you could argue that it's the individual's fault for using that drug. And I would agree; I tend to believe that people are responsible for their own actions.

However, it's simply not correct for anyone to say that the poor harmless drug is not a problem at all.

I mean, you could say that heroin sitting there on its own isn't a problem until someone uses it. Of course that's the case -- but nobody is saying that these drugs jump up and force people to use them.

The problem [i]is[/i] "drug use" and "drug addiction" -- not necessarily the mere existence of the substance.

My post was not intending to go into those areas. I was simply saying that marijuana is [i]more dangerous[/i] than some are making it out to be. I am [i]not[/i] saying that it is more dangerous than various other drugs -- and I have never said that.

What I'm saying is that we have two extremes here.

One side is saying that marijuana will lead to the total decay of society and that it is one of the most dangerous drugs out there.

That is false.

The other side is saying that marijuana is harmless and that it doesn't do anything other than getting you high occasionally.

That is also false.

So please, try not to react in a knee-jerk fashion, especially if you (or anyone else) are going to start quoting statements from sources that have an interest in legalization of marijuana. Not to say that you are doing that specifically, but the legalization debate tends to lend itself to that kind of interference.

I should end this post by saying that I'm not even against the legalization of marijuana. At least, not entirely. I fully support its legalization for medical purposes, because I am aware of plenty of cases where it eases the pain of those with terminal illnesses and such.

The main thing I wanted to do here was just clarify my position. I do not have an axe to grind either way.[/color]

[quote name='Syk3']Marijuana is not a substance free of its problems and harm, but when you weigh it against other such drugs, it is clearly safer.[/quote]

[color=#334366]But see, here is another problem. Comparison and justification.

I am not seeking to compare marijuana to other drugs here, lol.

If I compare one shot of heroin to being hit by a truck, heroin suddenly looks a lot safer. You see what I'm saying?

My intention isn't to compare marijuana to any other drug. I am simply saying that [i]any[/i] drug used in excess can be dangerous. I have no doubt that sensible marijuana use is [i]not[/i] dangerous -- but [b]excessive[/b] use [b]can be[/b] dangerous.

I hope that clarifies my position further.[/color]

[quote name='Syk3']Weekly or bi-weekly? Doubtful.[/quote]

[color=#334366]That kind of tells me that you do have an interest in supporting marijuana here. I mean, I don't think you are as objective as you say. ~_^

But I'm just using an example there. There are so many factors to be considered -- and this is why I wasn't getting into a long and drawn-out debate in the other thread. Obviously the effects of marijuana depend on more thtan how often you smoke it. But again (and again), I haven't said otherwise.[/color]

[quote=Syk3]
I don't see how you could say that ecstasy, a drug that will kill you if you drink too much or not enough water, is possibly safe. Regardless of the fact that you need to be fully responsible when using it (which in itself is difficult to survive), there's really no comparison to marijuana.
[/quote]

[color=#334366]Wait a minute. I [i]never[/i] said that it was safe. Don't start twisting my words here.

I said that it was "possibly safe if you know how to use it". In that sense, it compares directly to marijuana. How?

Responsible use. If you use something in a responsible manner, you're far less likely to suffer serious consequences. If you abuse a substance, you're more likely to suffer serious consequences. [b]That[/b] is the essence of what I am saying.

I am therefore not advocating or debating the legalization or validity of using marijuana in general. I am simply saying that marijuana is a drug, it has health risks associated with it (as does eating potato chips, as you accurately pointed out) and that with [b]any[/b] of these substances/foods/whatever, [b]responsible use[/b] is the key.

That is really what is underscoring my whole philosophy here.

Edit: Before I go, I will leave you with some information about marijuana, gathered from Harvard.[/color]

[quote=Harvard.edu Report:]Marijuana has often been touted as one of the safest recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user?s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders.
[/quote]

[color=#334366]I totally agree with this statement, [i]but:[/i][/color]

[quote name='Harvard.edu Report:']Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be "yes."[/quote]

[color=#334366]This study (as all should) acknowledge that more tests and research need to be done. But to say that there are no consequences just isn't correct.[/color]

[quote=Harvard.edu Report:]EFFECTS OF HABITUAL MARIJUANA USE ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM

The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in AIDS patients.

Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker?s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells. Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy, the very conditions for which marijuana has most often been touted and suggested as a treatment. It has also been shown that marijuana use can accelerate the progression of HIV to full-blown AIDS and increase the occurrence of infections and Kaposi?s sarcoma. In addition, patients with weak immune systems will be even less able to defend themselves against the various respiratory cancers and conditions to which consistent marijuana use has been linked, and which are discussed briefly under "Respiratory Illnesses."

In conclusion, it seems that the potential dangers presented by the medical use of marijuana may actually contribute to the dangers of the diseases which it would be used to combat. Therefore, I suggest that marijuana should not be permitted as a therapy, at least until a good deal more conclusive research has been completed concerning its debilitating effect on the immune system.

For more on this topic, please see Donald P. Tashkin, M.D., "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and Its Immune Defenses," Secretary's Youth Substance Abuse Prevention Intiative: Resource Papers, March 1997, Center for Substance Abuse Prevention. Pages 33-51 of this address can be found at the website of the Indiana Prevention Resource Center at Indiana University, located at [url]http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/tashkin-[/url] marijuana.html.



RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES

The main respiratory consequences of smoking marijuana regularly (one joint a day) are pulmonary infections and respiratory cancer, whose connection to marijuana use has been strongly suggested but not conclusively proven. The effects also include chronic bronchitis, impairment in the function of the smaller air passages, inflammation of the lung, the development of potentially pre-cancerous abnormalities in the bronchial lining and lungs, and, as discussed, a reduction in the capabilities of many defensive mechanisms within the lungs.

Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar. It has been concretely established that smoking cigarettes promotes lung cancer (which causes more than 125,000 deaths in the US every year), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and increased incidence of respiratory tract infections. This implies, but does not establish, that smoking marijuana may lead to some of the same results as smoking cigarettes. It is notable that several reports indicate an unexpectedly large proportion ofmarijuana users among cases of lung cancer and cancers of the oral cavity,pharynx, and larynx. Thus, it appears that the use of marijuana as a medicine has the potential to further harm an already ill patient in the same way that taking up regular cigarette smoking would, particularly in light of the fact that those patients for whom marijuana is recommended are already poorly equipped to fight off these infections and diseases.

For more information, please see the Tashkin website mentioned at the end of the section on immune disorders. See also:

[url]www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/[/url] 21.96.10.html, for information on the link between chemicals contained in marijuana and lung cancer.
[url]http://www.marijuananews.com/latest_research_finds_that_heavy.htm[/url], for an article concerning the link between marijuana and cancer, with commentary


[b]MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY [/b]

It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.

[/quote]

[color=#334366]This page also recommends various resources, which I'll look at as well. The last three paragraphs there underscore what I've been talking about, in terms of psychiatric links. There's plenty of this information out there if you are willing to look. But I also strongly recommend reading the sections that discuss the pros and cons of theraputic use, based on the type of illness (ie: that theraputic use may be okay in some cases but may cause more problems with specific illnesses, particularly disorders with a mental component).

I'm not really interested in getting deeply involved in this debate, because I really don't care very much -- by that I mean, I'm not really anti-marijuana itself. But I think it's at least useful to debunk the idea that it's a harmless substance.[/color]

[Adahn]

[size=2]I am not a fan of tobacco. I grew up with almost all my relatives smoking, and there was never a moment when I wasn't utterly disgusted by it. My opinion, therefore, is biased and based upon my own predispositions, and has naught to do with research. When I'm walking to class, and someone is smoking behind/in front of/anywhere near me, I hate it. I hate the smell of it. I hate the way people smoke so casually. I hate the way they talk casually about it.[/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Now, people want to make marijuana legal. Do you understand what that means? We've accepted cigarettes and smokers. They're everywhere. They even have their own section in restaurants. The same thing will happen if marijuana is legalized. I'll have to walk around campus, and anywhere else, dealing with the noxious fumes from all that pot. It will at least double the number of people I simply cannot tolerate having around me. There will be a whole new 'class' introduced into the United States. There are smokers, non-smokers, and potheads. Potheads will be in public places everywhere, and I hope I have enough self control not to attack them if I see them.[/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Now that we've established my bias, I'll try to make some sort of point. From personal experience, students who smoke cigarettes underage tend not to be the brightest stars in the sky. By legalizing marijuana, you'll send a message to all kids saying, "It's not that bad. In fact, it's so not-unhealthy that we're legalizing it after it having been an illegal drug!" You'll be making it very attractive to underage people. I would expect the number of students smoking pot to at least equal those who smoke cigarettes.[/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Also, despite all the studies on marijuana not having bad side effects, I'd like to see one that showed the benefits of marijuana (being used as it will if made legal). Sure, junk food isn't very healthy, but it's food.[/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Basically, though, I just really, really don't want to have to deal with potheads on a daily basis in all the public places. I have a little bit of a "Mr. Smith" view on smoking (cigarettes or anything else).[/size]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]

[Zeta]

James:

Neither myself nor Syk3 have ever said it is harmless. We have just said it is not as bad as it seems. Which is true. No links to cancer as compared to cigarettes. You don't have to smoke it so you can eliminate the smoke entering you compltely. Thus eliminating respiratory illness.

The one joint equaling like 40 cigarettes isn't that great of a point to bring up. 1) If you are smoking a joint, you are more likely ot be sharing it amongst others, so you don't smoke it all. 2) You have to look at it from this point of view. Smoke one joint, or smoke 40 cigarettes which contain more than just tar. *shrug* 3) You don't smoke joints by yourself often at all. You use a pipe, where the tar accumulates on the sides. The joint example is a minority compared to the safer ways of smoking. I can go i nto them in detail if one wishes.

There are more harmful substances in cigarettes than marijuana which over power the tar. The tar can even be removed, just stop smoking for a month or two. Happened to me when I smoked cigarettes. I had a bad smokers cough. I stopped and no longer have it.

I would like more information concering the patients who have gotten disorders specifically from marijuana itself. All it says is that can trigger it. It doesn't say if they are pre-determined to have it, or all ready have it. That is a very specific detail that cannot be left out if you want to bring that up. One of Syk3's sites said that you have a higher chance of getting a case of mental disorder if you have it, or have the possibilty of getting one. If it has caused a wide amount of mental illnesses by itself, you would hear about it much, much more.

[QUOTE]I said that it was "possibly safe if you know how to use it". In that sense, it compares directly to marijuana. [/QUOTE]

What do you define as safe? Because no matter how you do marijuana it is safe, lol. Even if you don't do it responsibly, you are safe, lol. No links to lung cancer, or to oral cancer. No hard proof that one has contracted a mental illness from purly marijuana smoke. Respiratory problems can easily be overcome. Just stop smoking for a month, hell a week, and you will be fine. It isn't addicting, so you can stop.

What I have been saying is that Marijuana is not as bad as it is made out to be, pure and simple. Once you have smoked it for a few years, you will know that yourself. Researching information and basing your opinion solely on that isn't going to give you a full view of the issue. It is a biased side of the story from people who [i]want[/i] you to not smoke it. When they research it to say it is bad, they are in the mindset all ready that it is bad, and that their sole purpose is to prove it. If they see a good thing, they pass it up as a rare occurence.

You never heard good things about marijuana, why? Because they don't release things that are good about it. They only release the bad. That is why you have to go to other smokers who have smoked for years, and are in perfect health. People who have smoked with depression, and it hasn't progressed further because of it. People who have smoked since the 70's and are still in good health.

Adahn:

Ahh but you see, all ready smoking is all ready being taken out of the public. I am hearing news reports and reading articles that in some places smoking is not allowed outside of ones one house. You can't even smoke on a street corner.

Marijuana smoke is much different than tobacco smoke. It doesn't linger, only if you are in an enclosed space. I could probably smoke a joint a few steps behind you and you would never even know I was smoking.


Has anyone even bothered to [i]visit[/i] the links that I provided in the last topic? (those who have read it of course) Have you looked around the sites, the forums, and actually done some digging? Everything that is being brought up is the common cover of what one is taught in a anti-drug class. Go and talk to the people who have been smoking it for years to get a full understanding. You wil find the answers to everything you guys ask in those links. You will find things that you weren't taught in an anti-drug class.

Edit: To me that seems like a pile of gibberish place at random. If need be I will clear it up. Five hours on a physics lab write up as left me :wigout: .

[Brasil]

Oh, common sense, where hast thou gone?

Seriously. Why would people even begin to believe that legalizing marijuana is a good thing? I mean...I can see it for medicinal purposes, yes, but so the recreational pothead can get high? [i]C'mon[/i] lol.

There are serious lapses in judgment when you use marijuana. It [i]does[/i] have adverse reactions on thought processes. Hell, you can see that from a few of the Pro-Legalization posts in these two Marijuana threads.

I, for one, like any [i]sensibly minded person[/i], do not want 18-year-olds buying Mary-Jane and giving it to their 15-year-old friends.

Hello, people, that's not a good thing, no matter how stoned you want to be.

What are some of the other argument points for the legalization...

Ah, it's not a gateway drug? I'm assuming "gateway" means onto bigger and harder things? Gee...*thinks back to when some of his cousins started pot, then launched into cocaine, a bit of heroin, finally hitting rock-bottom and coming to a mission for drug abuse out in the NorthWest* Hm. I guess all of that was my cousins' fault, then? All of that trouble was based purely on their troubled psyches? Yeah, I'm sure that's what it was.

It's better for everyone, because it's more accessible, and can be bought virtually everywhere? Oh, yeah. I'd just [i]love[/i] to be able to walk into my local Rite-Aid and see some High School Senior loading up on the stuff. [i]Real[/i] great argument there.

Oh, what's that you say? We should legalize it so children are safer, so they don't have to go through vicious druglords, instead just hitting up said high school Senior? Why didn't I ever see the logic in that?!

Oh, that's right...[i]because there is no logic in that[/i]!

Two things here:

One, I seriously think people are taking the "Pro-Legalization" angle way, way too far, because much of what is being suggested is incredibly, [i]incredibly[/i] unwise.

Two, I seriously think that marijuana has a much greater adverse effect on mental functions (*cough*Zeta*cough*) than people may realize (*cough*Zeta*cough*).

Universally legalizing marijuana with no considerations at all to the consequences...I don't believe I've ever heard of anything so absurd.

Is it just me? Am I the only one left who possesses any shred of common sense?

Good idea: Helping your grandfather up the stairs.

Bad idea: Helping your high school friends get high.

[Zeta]

Have you smoked it my good ole' chap?

Again, look at it from this point of view. You go through the black market to get it, you are introduced to the harder drugs. Why? Because a marijuana dealer doesn't just sell pot. Trust me. I know. That is how it is a gateway drug. You don't lose getting the high from pot. You won't get the same high from doing another drug. You get a totally different high. So you definately aren't looking for a drug to give you the same effects as pot.

It doesn't have as bad as mental effects as everyone says it is. Show me a thorough study that says the people who got the disorders didn't have it all ready, or it doesn't run in the family. Back up your claims. Without the proof, it doesn't prove your claims.

And who said a High School would be buying it? lol. As I said in the other thread there would of course be an age limit. With that, he/she definately will not be walking into a drugstore and stocking up on it, lol.

[QUOTE]I, for one, like any sensibly minded person, do not want 18-year-olds buying Mary-Jane and giving it to their 15-year-old friends.[/QUOTE]

You would rather have them going to the gangs? The drug cartels? I know I wouldn't. But hey, that is just me.

And you seem to have missed a lot of what I have once said about marijuana. With it legalized, the government will have much more control over it. They will be able to tax it, make money off of it. They will make sure it isn't somehow laced with heroin, cocaine, rat poison. There will be no need to go to the gangs, drug cartels, or any of the other places that illegaly deal drugs. As I said. I would much rather my kid stay away from those areas. But that is just me. Some people may want their kid to go to the cartels, gangs, and what not.

I bring up, have you smoked it? Have you driven and smoked? Have you went to school high? Have you smoked at all?

1) You have a higher chance of controlling yourself when high. You can think. You obviously don't know this since you haven't smoked. Or you have smoked and just failed to realize that you could actually think, as opposed to alcohol. You can die of alcohol poisining, you can't overdose on marijuana. You have SERIOUS lapse of judgment with alcohol, with marijuana you do not. You do not have whole sections of your life missing because you have been piss drunk and blacked out if you are high .

2) Driving is stupid while high yes. But it is much easier to do than driving drunk. You concentrate more. You pay attention more. Again, you don't know this because you haven't done it. How many accident do you hear of that are because of being high? Marijuana is as availabe as alcohol, so don't say that alcohol is more available. Why don't you hear about the marijuana accidents as much as the alcohol? You would think they would pay just as much, if not more mind to marijuana accidents, to strengthen your views that is a horrible drug.

3) I have been a smoker for years. I am a high honor roll student. I was accepted into the third best college in the Mid West. I have driven stoned. I have no gotten into an accident once while being stoned. I have gone to school stoned and have passed my tests with A's. I have been in public when I was stoned and no one knew. Why? Because you can control yourself. You can be normal. It doesn't make you stumble, it doesn't make you angry like alcohol.

Again, I never said marijuana was harmless. That was Morpheous assuming I said that and it somehow caught on. I know there are consequences, as I have said each time I post. But the consequences are not as bad as everyone seems to think they are. I have smoked for years. I know people who have smoked two times as long as me. And they are perfectly fine. I know people who have smoked with depression and they haven't had their problems progress any further. You don't know it isn't as bad as it is, becasue you haven't tried it. You just buy all the bogus that is fed to you. They aren't going to tell you anything good about it, they will only tell you the bad so they make it seem like they are 100% right.

But hey, I could care less if you believe what I say or not, just as you could care less if I believe what you say or not I bet. I am not going to take anyone's comments seriously if they haven't been on both sides of the bandwagon. I have been on both sides. I just see people here absorbing their anti-drug classes to the maximum, and don't even bother to actually see it from the other side. It is basically just judging a book on its' cover. I have seen it from both sides.

But hey, say what you will. Bash my comments. They won't do you any good. Just as my comments bashing yours will not do any good. What I am trying to do is to make you see the other side of the issue. Not just the one side. But if you don't even want to glimpse it from the other side, *shrug* Take it with a grain of salt. It's your choice.

[James]

[color=#334366]The thing is, more research does need to be done.

But as you can see by the information I posted above, there are some very significant health concerns/effects with the drug.

Now, would I say that [i]too much[/i] emphasis is put on marijuana? Probably. Especially if it's to the detriment of dealing with more serious drugs.

But way, [i]way[/i] too many people seem to think that marijuana is a really light substance that doesn't even have as much impact as tabacco. As you can see by what I've posted, it does contain some similar toxins, but it can also have different effects.

In terms of the legalization debate, well...I have no real opinion on that. I know there are passionate views on either side, but I really don't have much of a view. I am personally just trying to debunk some of the general concepts about the drug not being significantly harmful. I think it's fine if someone smokes it while being informed, but unfortunately too many don't.[/color]

[quote name='Zeta']Because no matter how you do marijuana it is safe, lol. Even if you don't do it responsibly, you are safe, lol.[/quote]

[color=#334366]Rubbish. lol

Take a look at the information I posted above. Your previous post suggests that you haven't even read through it.

Yes, there's more research to be done. But believe me, enough is already known and demonstrated to link marijuana use to various significant health problems -- mental or otherwise.[/color]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=Zeta]Have you smoked it my good ole' chap?

Again, look at it from this point of view. You go through the black market to get it, you are introduced to the harder drugs. Why? Because a marijuana dealer doesn't just sell pot. Trust me. I know. That is how it is a gateway drug. You don't lose getting the high from pot. You won't get the same high from doing another drug. You get a totally different high. So you definately aren't looking for a drug to give you the same effects as pot.

It doesn't have as bad as mental effects as everyone says it is. Show me a thorough study that says the people who got the disorders didn't have it all ready, or it doesn't run in the family. Back up your claims. Without the proof, it doesn't prove your claims.

And who said a High School would be buying it? lol. As I said in the other thread there would of course be an age limit. With that, he/she definately will not be walking into a drugstore and stocking up on it, lol.

You would rather have them going to the gangs? The drug cartels? I know I wouldn't. But hey, that is just me.

And you seem to have missed a lot of what I have once said about marijuana. With it legalized, the government will have much more control over it. They will be able to tax it, make money off of it. They will make sure it isn't somehow laced with heroin, cocaine, rat poison. There will be no need to go to the gangs, drug cartels, or any of the other places that illegaly deal drugs. As I said. I would much rather my kid stay away from those areas. But that is just me. Some people may want their kid to go to the cartels, gangs, and what not.

I bring up, have you smoked it? Have you driven and smoked? Have you went to school high? Have you smoked at all?

1) You have a higher chance of controlling yourself when high. You can think. You obviously don't know this since you haven't smoked. Or you have smoked and just failed to realize that you could actually think, as opposed to alcohol. You can die of alcohol poisining, you can't overdose on marijuana. You have SERIOUS lapse of judgment with alcohol, with marijuana you do not. You do not have whole sections of your life missing because you have been piss drunk and blacked out if you are high .

2) Driving is stupid while high yes. But it is much easier to do than driving drunk. You concentrate more. You pay attention more. Again, you don't know this because you haven't done it. How many accident do you hear of that are because of being high? Marijuana is as availabe as alcohol, so don't say that alcohol is more available. Why don't you hear about the marijuana accidents as much as the alcohol? You would think they would pay just as much, if not more mind to marijuana accidents, to strengthen your views that is a horrible drug.

3) I have been a smoker for years. I am a high honor roll student. I was accepted into the third best college in the Mid West. I have driven stoned. I have no gotten into an accident once while being stoned. I have gone to school stoned and have passed my tests with A's. I have been in public when I was stoned and no one knew. Why? Because you can control yourself. You can be normal. It doesn't make you stumble, it doesn't make you angry like alcohol.

Again, I never said marijuana was harmless. That was Morpheous assuming I said that and it somehow caught on. I know there are consequences, as I have said each time I post. But the consequences are not as bad as everyone seems to think they are. I have smoked for years. I know people who have smoked two times as long as me. And they are perfectly fine. I know people who have smoked with depression and they haven't had their problems progress any further. You don't know it isn't as bad as it is, becasue you haven't tried it. You just buy all the bogus that is fed to you. They aren't going to tell you anything good about it, they will only tell you the bad so they make it seem like they are 100% right.

But hey, I could care less if you believe what I say or not, just as you could care less if I believe what you say or not I bet. I am not going to take anyone's comments seriously if they haven't been on both sides of the bandwagon. I have been on both sides. I just see people here absorbing their anti-drug classes to the maximum, and don't even bother to actually see it from the other side. It is basically just judging a book on its' cover. I have seen it from both sides.

But hey, say what you will. Bash my comments. They won't do you any good. Just as my comments bashing yours will not do any good. What I am trying to do is to make you see the other side of the issue. Not just the one side. But if you don't even want to glimpse it from the other side, *shrug* Take it with a grain of salt. It's your choice.[/QUOTE]
Zeta, as much as you want to deny it, your marijuana consumption [i]is[/i] having an extremely detrimental effect on your thought processes and cognitive functions. You're sitting here and telling me that smoking pot has no ill effects at all (that is what your posts are saying...whether or not you realize that is a rather important issue here).

You want to really see what people think? Run for public office on the Weed Platform.

You say I'm just getting too drawn in to the "anti-drug" classes? Bull****. I've [i]seen[/i] the effects of marijuana, Zeta. My cousins are testament to what it does. It is damaging--far, far moreso than you want to admit. You have gotten lucky in your life, Zeta. Don't try to spin your experiences as the norm, because I have seen what pot does to a person. My cousin, Anthony, still has that glazed look in his eyes and he's been clean for years now.

I'm not saying pot is the bane of society. I'm not saying it's the Antichrist. I am saying, however, that whatever inane arguments the Pro-Legalization people are making are just that: inane.

[quote]And who said a High School would be buying it? lol. As I said in the other thread there would of course be an age limit. With that, he/she definately will not be walking into a drugstore and stocking up on it, lol.[/quote]
You set an age limit of 18. 88% of high school Seniors are 18. What do you think is going to happen there? Just think about it for a second.

[Manic Webb]

Here's my stance: if tabacco is legal, and you can get a prescription for Valium with no problem, then marijuana should also be legal. Why? Because people typically smoke marijuana less frequently than cigarettes (still a risk for lung cancer, but a slightly smaller risk), and most people use it as a mood elevator in the same sense as valium or any other antidespressant. Simply put, I support [i]medicinal[/i] marijuana.

Would people try to dupe their doctors into prescribing it for them so they can share it with their friends and get high? Most likely. But then people do that with legal antidepressants all the time.

Anyone who says that marijuana has no negative effects isn't thinking realistically. Sure, it won't cause you to go completely wacko if you use it in moderation, but the same can be said for legal substances like alcohol, caffeine, or even sugar. Problem is, all of the above can be abused, and all can have [i]extremely[/i] negative effects on your health if used improperly. The difference is how much before "Use" becomes "abuse."

However, if you [i]do[/i] use it properly (say, like a medical drug), then it's no different from Valium (with the added risk of lung cancer, like cigarettes). And not even Valium is harmless. Side-effects include confusion, blurred vision, slurred speech, dependance, and addiction... amongst other things.

My point is that the difference between the pot-weed and any other antidepressant is that Sweet Lady MJ is uncontrolled, and the ones you can get at the pharmacy are controlled.

I honestly think that if the government thought they could control the sales, use, trafficing, and production of hemp (and if they hadn't used so much money turning the general public against it for decades), then much like their synthetic drugs currently on the market, they would totally legalize it.

After all, if Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft were illegal, we'd probably still be having this same conversation. Heck, there'd probably be very little argument to legalize them at all.

[M.Ali]

[font=trebuchet ms]Before I state my opinion, let me say that this is going to be a very interesting thread lol.

But honestly, I think that weed should [b]not[/b] be legalized. I say this simply for the fact that weed will become better accessed by younger individuals, and that, I think is not good, don't get me wrong, because weed isn't that hard to get now days, but if it's easier to get to by making it legal, then plenty of 13,14,and 15 year-olds would be walking around geeked-up all the time. Weed has different effects on different people when they're high, I know this from experience. Some people get wild, some people get relaxed, or in most cases, whatever emotion that hits you hard (examples: Anger, excitement, etc.), so driving while being high isn't very smart, and it's against the law (D.U.I.).[/font]

[QUOTE=Siren]You say I'm just getting too drawn in to the "anti-drug" classes? Bull****. I've [i]seen[/i] the effects of marijuana, Zeta. My cousins are testament to what it does. It is damaging--far, far moreso than you want to admit. You have gotten lucky in your life, Zeta. Don't try to spin your experiences as the norm, because I have seen what pot does to a person. My cousin, Anthony, still has that glazed look in his eyes and he's been clean for years now.
[/QUOTE]
[font=trebuchet ms]Erm..okay, didn't you say this:[/font]
[quote name='Siren']*thinks back to when some of his cousins started pot, then launched into cocaine, a bit of heroin, finally hitting rock-bottom and coming to a mission for drug abuse out in the NorthWest*[/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]Trust me when I say, that weed isn't the reason that you cousin is the way he is, you pointed out yourself that your cousin did more than one type of drug, and had to go to rahabilitation. So I totally stick by Syk3 and Zeta when they say that weed is harmless than other drugs. In my opinion, I think that cigaretts should be considered a drug, seeing as though [i]they[/i] kill. But [i]weed[/i]? Naw, I grew up in the hood, and not once did I ever hear anything about someone dying from using weed, and there were some [i]real[/i] "weed-heads" out there (35 year-old men that have been smoking almost everyday since they were 16), but anyways, the fact that there hasn't been any reported deaths that have been caused by weed, is because weed [i][b]can?t[/b][/i] kill, and it [b][i]isn't[/i][/b] addictive. Why? I have no clue whatsoever lol. If I were a scientist, I'd tell ya.

I used to smoke when I was younger (14-15, now I'm 18), and I know how good it felt, but I was smoking for all of the wrong reasons, just because I thought my cousins were so cool and tried to be just like them. I eventually stopped because weed has a few side-effects, the main one is called [b]"The Munchies"[/b]. I hated being so damn hungry everytime I got high, and I eventually picked up weight, so I had to stop.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that smoking weed is good, I'm just simply pointing out the fact that, it isn't as harmful as other drugs. Afterall, no matter how much you sugar-coat it, drugs are still, drugs... [/font]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I don't think that you can argue against the fact that marijuana does affect how you are when you're not taking it. I'm not going to cite studies... but you can almost always tell a pothead, which should tell you something. Basically, if you want to smoke pot, it doesn't bother me. But if you must, stick with pot [I recall the whole 'gateway to harder drugs' argument from before], don't introduce others to it, be careful, and do it at home, where if things do get out of hand, it won't affect others. And that's all there is to say. It is something that only affect individuals, and as long as it is something that I don't actually have forced on me [in terms of being in your face] then thats fine. As has been said, marijuana is probably a safer drug than many other legal and illegal substances. Do I think people should use it? Not really. I think that if people can't find other 'outs' or ways to enjoy themselves, then that is pretty sad. But it's not my problem, either.[/size]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=M.Ali]Erm..okay, didn't you say this:

Trust me when I say, that weed isn't the reason that you cousin is the way he is, you pointed out yourself that your cousin did more than one type of drug, and had to go to rahabilitation.[/QUOTE]
I saw him numerous times before he started getting into the heavy stuff, and the glaze already was there, the sort of distant, lazy stare of a mind perpetually in a state of drifting off. He wasn't even doing the heavy, heavy stuff back in high school, and I'm fairly sure he only just got his GED last year. We would have both graduated in 2001.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I'm sure my posts won't be nearly as glorious as everyone else's but I'll put my $3.00 in and see what happnens.

I've never smoked marijuana. I had friends that did it and offered it to me, but honestly baby poop smells better to me. I couldn't immagine wanting it under my nose and in my mouth. Thankfully my friends respected my opinion not too smoke.

My borther used to smoke along with his friends and one of his friends brothers was a dealer along with one of his (my brother's friends). My brother went with a friend of his once to collect some money from a guy that bought from him and the dude shot my brother's friend. So that made my brother stop smoking.

I've heard of people getting messed up because the dealer mixed up other stuff in the marijuana. My husband once got some stuff that was mixed with angeldust that stuf screwed him up and he couldn't get up for a while (he was in HS at the time and that made him stop). And I heard of this other kid that was put in a coma because of the stuff that someone mixed into his stuff.

'So why don't we make it legal?' You ask. Because although that would stop people putting crap into the stuff-although Botox being legal didn't stop anyone from screwing with it- but it wouldn't curb the abuse. People abuse perscription drugs everyday, just think of what they could do abusing other drugs as well.

That's all I have to say on the subject for now.[/color]

[Zeta]

Siren, I have also seen the effects of marijuana, don't think you have a one up o n me there. I KNOW the effects of marijuana first hand.. I have seen people that actually have mental disorders and smoke. Are they screwed up? No. I have seen people who smoke marijuana every day for years without a mental disorder. Are they screwed up? No. So I have my own experiences as well as seeing what it does in others as well, you aren't the only one.

I never said it was harmless, lol. Must I keep repeating what I say? It is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Everyone makes it out to be this drug that will kill you and ruin your life. It won't. That is all I am saying. You can choose to believe I am saying it is compltely harmless if you want. But this has to be the fifth time I have said this, c'mon.

Sure the abuse won't stop. Everything is abused as you said. But I would much rather have someone abuse a drug that isn't laced with angeldust.*shrug* Again, that is just me.

[QUOTE]but you can almost always tell a pothead, which should tell you something.[/QUOTE]

Been a pothead for a good while now. When I talk about weed to people they are shocked that I smoke.


I would much rather my son going to my neighbor Tommy to get marijuana rather than in some alley in the middle of the night if he chooses to smoke marijuana.

But hey, I repeat, I am not here to force one to change their opinions. I am here to try and help one see the other side of the issue, and do their own research and decide for themself if they want to believe what they do no, or not.

[Afire]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=RED]First of all, I would like to say that marijuana comes from a plant that I think is rather beautiful. I like plants and flowering things. I don't think any plant should be illegal. After all, did not God create them?
[IMG]http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/maleinflowering.jpg[/IMG]
Substance abuse is always going to be there for some people. To each his own. The whole debate seems to be from both extremes. I think it's the extreme judgments of people that cause substance abuse in the first place. You can abuse anything on earth. You can do, use, or consume anything to an extreme.

I don't think making cigarettes illegal would stop people from smoking. I think it would turn even little old ladies into criminals, since nicotine is such an addictive drug.

I don't think drugs should be illegal. I think if people want drugs...they will get them. I do think it should be illegal to advertise prescription drugs on TV and in magazines, or anywhere for that matter. The abuse and prescribing of legal drugs in this country is amazing. I've seen alot of studies done on marijuana. What about the effects of all the prescription drugs out there? Also the effects of combining them? I personally think it would be better to limit marijuana sales to prescription use. But I don't think it should be against the law to grow marijuana for personal use in the privacy of your own home. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

I have never smoked marijuana or cigarettes or taken any illegal drugs and I don't plan on it. I've drank a glass of wine a couple times and I like it. I'm not going to judge those who use marijuana. What I am angered at is people who put other people lives in danger. I'm angered by people driving while talking on their cell phones. I'm angered by drivers lighting up cigarettes and those putting on make-up or doing other distracting things. I'm angered by people driving while intoxicated
on any substance legal or illegal.

There's been alot of talk here about the "smoking of marijuana," but I haven't heard anyone talk about the use of marijuana without smoking. I've heard of people eating marijuana in brownies and in rice crispy treats or making marijuana tea. That would take care of the smoke inhalation danger. I still think it's much safer than alot of prescription drugs and has less dangerous side effects.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Zeta]James:

Neither myself nor Syk3 have ever said it is harmless. We have just said it is not as bad as it seems. Which is true. No links to cancer as compared to cigarettes. You don't have to smoke it so you can eliminate the smoke entering you compltely. Thus eliminating respiratory illness.[/QUOTE]
Just because something isn't as bad as it seems doesn't mean it's good. Here's a little story:

I was in Florida in October, and our waiter said the only thing he lost in the storm was a few windows in his car. He said that it wasn't as bad as it looks on TV. Does that mean he wants another to come through? No. In fact, he said he'll leave Florida for good come next hurricane.

Marijuana hurts you. It impairs you. I still don't understand why you do it. In "Falsely Accused" you said you use it to just chill. There is a very simple process to chilling:
1. Go to a room with only one or two doors.
2. Sit your a** down.
3. Turn on said music, movie, etc.
4. Point middle finger(s) at door(s).
Problem solved.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE=Me][COLOR=INDIGO]The density of the smoke in one joint is about triple that of a pure tobacco cigarette. Obviously this makes marijuana smoke quite a bit more harmful to the lungs than a pure tobacco cigarette. There are problems with this statistic (yes, it is a factual FDA statistic). One, it would be very difficult (not to mention astronomically expensive) for even the most avid pot smoker to smoke a half ounce of marijuana a day (roughly one quarter the weight of one pack of cigarettes). Two, a single filtered cigarette?s tobacco is laced with dozens of known cancer causing toxins, all of which are absent from most marijuana. In other words it would be hard as hell to develop emphysema of lung cancer from smoking pot. Sure, if you are an avid pot-head you probably aren?t going to be running any marathons, but that is derived more from sitting on the couch all day stoned than it is from lung ailments.

It is also factual that there is no scientific evidence of marijuana having any physically addictive properties. Now, that isn?t to say it isn?t habit forming, it is. But so is locking yourself in your bedroom and playing video games for hours on end. If a person derives a sense of enjoyment from something it can become habit forming.

While marijuana does can to short term memory loss and slight paranoia it has not been medically linked to cause any other mental ailments when used alone. There has never been a proven case of marijuana being linked to full blown schizophrenia without a hallucinogenic (mushrooms, acid, peyote, opium) involved.

I also think that the whole ?gateway? drug aspect of marijuana is blown out of proportion. In my mind it is like stating that sex is a gateway to bestiality. Sure, I would believe that the majority of weirdoes that have sex with animals had sex with people first, but the majority of people that have sex don?t get their jollies humping a turtle. People of a certain mindset are going to experiment with different things, usually that predisposition has everything to do with that person?s environment and very little to do with smoking pot.

Despite all of my pro-pot propaganda, I am actually against legalizing the substance for several reasons. First being that corporations would more than likely bastardize the product, much like they did with tobacco. I have a feeling that commercial marijuana would be loaded down with an overabundance of the same carcinogens that cigarettes contain. Second, marijuana grows anywhere and that means that, regardless of corporate involvement in the product, there would always be a huge underground market for it that is entirely un-taxable. Third, there is no definitive way to test for marijuana impairment. Since your motor skills are severely hampered while under the influence of marijuana you have a greater chance to create a vehicular accidents, and I don?t want pot legalized until there can be repercussions for its abuse.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=indigo]My thoughts haven?t changed much since I wrote the above. I still think that most of the people arguing against the legalization of marijuana are using weak reasoning, so I?ll touch on that a bit. However, I am whole heartedly against legalizing marijuana, at least until there is a system that accurately tests a users impairment.[/color]

[quote name='P.T.'] Ah, it's not a gateway drug? I'm assuming "gateway" means onto bigger and harder things? Gee...*thinks back to when some of his cousins started pot, then launched into cocaine, a bit of heroin, finally hitting rock-bottom and coming to a mission for drug abuse out in the NorthWest* Hm. I guess all of that was my cousins' fault, then? All of that trouble was based purely on their troubled psyches? Yeah, I'm sure that's what it was. [/quote]

[color=indigo]Unfortunately it was your cousin?s fault and not marijuana?s. Now I am not attacking you or your family by any means, addiction is a horrible thing. Your cousin knowingly indulged in an illegal substance. Pot doesn?t make you fen for cocaine or heroin, no a string of bad choices led your cousin to hard addicting drugs. And yes, usually using your first drug is based purely on a troubled psyche and the need to feel sociable amongst a certain sect of people.[/color]

[quote name='P.T'] Oh, what's that you say? We should legalize it so children are safer, so they don't have to go through vicious druglords, instead just hitting up said high school Senior? Why didn't I ever see the logic in that?![/quote]

[color=indigo]That would be a valid point if kids were buying it from vicious drug lords. Pot, for the most part, isn?t sold by vicious drug lords. It is sold by high school seniors that sell it so they can get high for free. High school seniors usually get it from college kids who buy it from drop outs that buy it from local farmers. Pot isn?t a hard item to process or come by, especially since it grows everywhere and in virtually any climate.

I know where I grew up it was much easier finding pot than it was finding alcohol. Alcohol was controlled; you had to have an ID or someone that had a connection that had an ID to obtain it. Pot was everywhere though and I think regulation would help keep it out of the hands of high schoolers.

Although I don?t agree with your reasoning Siren, I agree with the overall principle that it shouldn?t be legalized (for the reasons at the end of my quote above.[/color]

[Morpheus]

I just thought I'd touch on this:
[quote name='Syk3']Okay, then tell me this. Do you drink soda? Coffee? Eat potato chips, or even white bread? Have you any concept that things you consume on a regular basis are bad for you? We?re not stupid, we?re being realistic. Pot won?t do any more harm to your body than the crap you put into it every day. Do you wonder why someone would smoke pot? Ask yourself why you like eating unhealthy foods.[/quote]
I do those things, and they are bad for you [b][i]IF[/b][/i] you use too much. Fat is good for your body to an extent. Fumes from marijuana are dangerous no matter how much you smoke, so why add it to the mix?

[quote name='Syk3']I don't see how you could say that ecstasy, a drug that will kill you if you drink too much or not enough water, is possibly safe.[/quote]
If you know how much water to drink, it is safe in small doses. If you don't, you shouldn't take it. If you do take it and you know how much water to drink, you are an idiot for putting your heart at risk.

[Zeta]

And if you will recall, I said it was more than that and that I couldn't explain. Try it out, and you will see for yourself.

[QUOTE]
I do those things, and they are bad for you IF you use too much. Fat is good for your body to an extent. Fumes from marijuana are dangerous no matter how much you smoke, so why add it to the mix?[/QUOTE]

Pipe: Tar accumulates on the side, as to many other things you don't want to get into your lungs. Naturally some of it gets through anyways. Have you ever seen a pipe used to smoke marijuana? They are pretty nasty after a whole bunch of tar and crap gets accumulated. They do the job pretty well.

Water bong: The smoke travels through water before entering your lungs. The water filters out tar, and tens of other things that would otherwise enter your lungs. Giving you a pleasent, non-irritating smoke. Have you seen bong water after a few uses? It is a nasty colour with all the crap that [i]could[/i] be entering your lungs, but isn't. They work better than pipes.

Vaporizer: You place it in a sort of glass tube and you heat up the glass. This in turn heats up the marijuana, activating the THC, the thing that gets you high, and causing it, and only it to rise. It rises as a green smoke. It is [i]only[/i] THC, and there will be minute traces of anything else if there is any at all. That is a pretty damn safe way to smoke it. You don't get the nasty smoke at all period. Which means you aren't bringing in anything that is associated with smoking it in the ways you have heard of most.

Eating: You hear the marijuana up with some food, eat it, and wait for about a haf hour for it to kick in. Not only will you get a different kind of high, you will virtually eliminate any risk you have from smoking it, even the minute amount you would get from a vaporizer.

Go and read my links Morpheous. I don't see why you won't. IN my links, you will find out why I continue to believe the way I do. You will see it isn't as bad as you may seem to think. C'mon man, just do it.

Morpheous. Which would you prefer. A drug that can kill you first time use, such as ecstacy? Or a drug that will never kill you first time use, and cannot overdose on? Even if you are sitting at home and being responsible with ecstasy, you have a higher chance of dieing from it first use. I prefer the marijuana, no matter how responsible I am with ecstasy.

Everything you put into your body is basically bad for you in some way.Why add anything that can harm you to your body? Might as well not add half the stuff in the world if you wan't to go with that mind set. Adding marijuana isn't going to dramatically reduce your life. It isn't going to give you lun cancer. It isn't going to be the cause of you going onto harder drugs, as myself and H.C have pointed out. Read my links Morpheous, and educate yourself on the broader issue.

[Decadence]

[color=silver] Ok, this is going to be a short post, because I'm tired. But first of all its in human nature to change their perception of reality, that is why people smoke, drink, and do any other kind of drug. And I also would like to get this link out again, i've already posted it, but it's scary when you think about it.
[url]http://alternet.org/drugreporter/21136/[/url]
And how can you say X is safer then marijuana? X can kill you weed can't kill you, it can be a factor in your death but it cannot kill you, and how is it any worse then drinking and smoking cigerets, and how is a 15 year old going to an 18 year old for cig's any worse then for marijuana? thats just my oppinion, and being a liberal hippy who's going to hell, according to the people at my school, i guess it won't count for much. [/color]

Edit:The actual story behind the legislature passed against marijuana is
quite surprising. According to Jack Herer, author of The Emperor Wears No
Clothes, the acts bringing about the demise of hemp were part of a large
conspiracy involving DuPont, Harry J. Anslinger, commissioner of the Federal
Bureau of Narcotics (FBN), and many other influential industrial leaders such as
William Randolph Hearst and Andrew Mellon. Herer notes that the Marijuana Tax
Act, which passed in 1937, coincidentally occurred just as the decoricator
machine was invented. With this invention, hemp would have been able to take
over competing industries almost instantaneously. According to Popular Mechanics,
"10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of
average [forest] pulp land." William Hearst owned enormous timber acreage so his
interest in preventing the growth of hemp can be easily explained. Competition
from hemp would have easily driven the Hearst paper-manufacturing company out of
business and significantly lowered the value of his land. Herer even suggests
popularizing the term "marijuana" was a strategy Hearst used in order to create
fear in the American public. Herer says "The first step in creating hysteria
was to introduce the element of fear of the unknown by using a word that no one
had ever heard of before... 'marijuana'".

may have already been said, but my friend just sent it to me,

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Zeta]
1.Try it out, and you will see for yourself.

2.Morpheous. Which would you prefer. A drug that can kill you first time use, such as ecstacy? Or a drug that will never kill you first time use, and cannot overdose on? Even if you are sitting at home and being responsible with ecstasy, you have a higher chance of dieing from it first use. I prefer the marijuana, no matter how responsible I am with ecstasy.

3.Everything you put into your body is basically bad for you in some way.Why add anything that can harm you to your body? Might as well not add half the stuff in the world if you wan't to go with that mind set. Adding marijuana isn't going to dramatically reduce your life. It isn't going to give you lun cancer. It isn't going to be the cause of you going onto harder drugs, as myself and H.C have pointed out. Read my links Morpheous, and educate yourself on the broader issue.[/QUOTE]
1. I'd like to, but there is that whole it hurts you thing and that illegal thing and that looking like a dumb*** thing, so no thanks.

2. I'd prefer no drugs at all, thank you very much. Unless you are sick it's pure stupidity to put a mind altering substance into your body.

3. You obviously don't understand. Everything else has a good side effect that overshadows the bad. Marijuana will hurt you, and for what, a high? Go tell a freaking joke instead of inhaling toxins into your body. Are you really so dense and stupid that you group harmful drugs with everything else?

[Zeta]

Again, read my links Morpheous. Each and every one of your posts only strengthens your image of a minformed youth advocating marijuana as a bad drug. I little tip from me to you. If you are scared of mommy and daddy seeing marijuana.com in your url bar, go to tools, internet options, and click the clear history button. ;)

Come back and talk to me when you actually know what you are talking about. Click on the links and read up. Then we can have a conversation.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Zeta']Siren, I have also seen the effects of marijuana, don't think you have a one up o n me there. I KNOW the effects of marijuana first hand.. I have seen people that actually have mental disorders and smoke. Are they screwed up? No. I have seen people who smoke marijuana every day for years without a mental disorder. Are they screwed up? No. So I have my own experiences as well as seeing what it does in others as well, you aren't the only one.[/quote]
Yes, you've had first-hand experience with pot. Yes, you've smoked it extensively throughout your life. If there are negative side-effects (which according to [i]Harvard University[/i]...there are negative side-effects), then surely you would be showing evidence of those side-effects, true? Side-effects like "In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning." For a long term user such as yourself, you would most certainly strongly display those characteristics, and...you [i]do[/i].

[quote]I never said it was harmless, lol. Must I keep repeating what I say? It is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. [b]Everyone makes it out to be this drug that will kill you and ruin your life[/b]. It won't. That is all I am saying. You can choose to believe I am saying it is compltely harmless if you want. But this has to be the fifth time I have said this, c'mon.[/quote]
I?ve bolded the sentence, and I?ve never been saying that. What I have been saying, however, is that it?s a drug that shouldn?t be viewed as lightly as you and others here are...and you [i]are[/i] viewing it very lightly.

[quote]Sure the abuse won't stop. Everything is abused as you said. But I would much rather have someone abuse a drug that isn't laced with angeldust.*shrug* Again, that is just me.[/quote]
Oh, don?t try to pull the ?I?m doing this for the safety of others? ********, lol. We all know you?re not arguing Pro-Marijuana because of that.

[quote]Been a pothead for a good while now. When I talk about weed to people they are shocked that I smoke.[/quote]
When you talk about weed here, I?m not surprised [i]at all[/i], based on your post history (not only in threads about MJ, but anywhere).

[quote]I would much rather my son going to my neighbor Tommy to get marijuana rather than in some alley in the middle of the night if he chooses to smoke marijuana.[/quote]
How about your son not getting marijuana at all?

[quote]I am here to try and help one see the other side of the issue, and do their own research and decide for themself if they want to believe what they do no, or not.

Go and read my links Morpheous. I don't see why you won't. IN my links, you will find out why I continue to believe the way I do. You will see it isn't as bad as you may seem to think. C'mon man, just do it.

Again, read my links Morpheous. Each and every one of your posts only strengthens your image of a minformed youth advocating marijuana as a bad drug. I little tip from me to you. If you are scared of mommy and daddy seeing marijuana.com in your url bar, go to tools, internet options, and click the clear history button. ;)

Come back and talk to me when you actually know what you are talking about. Click on the links and read up. Then we can have a conversation.[/QUOTE]
Oh, yes. The ?research? that you linked to in a previous thread? With one site that belonged to a [i]marijuana enthusiast web-ring[/i], and another site with articles written by a [i]marijuana enthusiast[/i]? Those sites that are designed and tailored For Potheads, By Potheads? Yes, really impartial and unbiased there. Drop the act, open your eyes, and resist the weed.

You're not even replying with any real points anymore, just "Click my links and the truth will be revealed!" You've seemingly entirely ignored the Harvard University studies, claiming that a bunch of pot-smokers online know more about what's really going on than organizations like DARE and professional studies from top-tier Ivy League schools.

You've got nothing to go on anymore, because your points have been refuted, and now you're simply refusing to discuss anything else, only falling back to the "You don't know what you're talking about so therefore I can't have a discussion with you anymore" fallacy of debate. Don't pull a Sciros, lol, and try to rationalize this.

[Zeta]

I keep saying that because he hasn't clicked them, and I want him to click them to get the other side of the story.

Your side is the biased views set forth by the government. The other side would be the biased views of a pot smoker, no?

You and him have your biased sites to draw your information on. I have mine. They are the opposite sides of the stories. Both will be biased. But you get both sides of the argument by actually reading both sides. You have one side of the story, and aren't willing to look at the other side. I have seen both sides Siren. You have not. Your points are one sided, biased points taught to you at DARE in order for the government to "prove it is right" I have those points, as well as the points I have researched and found out through personal use.

I used to be just like you. I would frown upon marijuana to the highest degree. I ended friendships over it. And after trying it and researching it myself, I have concluded that what we are taught is not the whole truth. And I changed my views. I changed them because I realized this.

If my son wants to smoke marijuana, I am not going to tell him no. I would be a hypocrit then. But what I will tell him is if he gets into trouble with the law because of it, he is on his own. Just as I was.

Legalizing it will take away the chances of the weed being laced. Which is why I said that. I myself don't want my weed laced with anything, and I am sure others don't either. We have no control on that at this moment in time, because it isn't regulated. A whole load of benefits will come from legalizing it. The government will be able to regulate it. They will be able to tax it and make money, money which can be then used on the more powerful drugs. The jails of the country will be freed up from the thousands of first time drug offenders, over which half are probably because of marijuana. Like it or not, going to an 18 year old neighbor will be much safer than going through the black market to get your drugs. I know. I have been to both places. I prefer the neighbor.

Naturally people will still use it. Just like alcohol and cigarettes. There are negative effects of alcohol and cigarettes and they are legal, effects that are worse than marijuana's.

[QUOTE]Yes, you've had first-hand experience with pot. Yes, you've smoked it extensively throughout your life. If there are negative side-effects (which according to Harvard University...there are negative side-effects), then surely you would be showing evidence of those side-effects, true? Side-effects like "In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning." For a long term user such as yourself, you would most certainly strongly display those characteristics, and...you do.[/QUOTE]

Please do tell me how I do have those characteristis. You do not know me. You do not know anything about me. My learning has not suffered. I am still a high honor roll student, with at least a 3.7 GPA every quarter. I am still able to think clearly, as established with my good school grades. If I couldn't think, I would not be getting good grades. My memory is as strong as ever. I remember things from before I started smoking. I remember things from times that I [i]was[/i] smoking. I remember what I did Christmas Break of '03. I know what I did in January through March of last year when it was a smoke fest for me. Every day I smoked, and I can recall [i]everything[/i] that we did. With all my times driving stoned, I have not once gotten into an accident. I have not once been pulled over. The only time I have been in an accident is when I [i]wasn't[/i] stoned, hell it was before I even started smoking. So please do tell me how I show these characteristics.

Of course I am viewing it lightly. Because I know from first hand experience that it isn't what you are taught. It isn't a gateway drug. It isn't going to cause cancer. It isn't going to cause mental illness by itself. It isn't going to shorten your life dramatically. But no where have I said that it is completely harmless.

People are surprised that I smoke, because I do not look like a pot smoker. I am a 17 year old who happens to look very young (right now that is not good >_>, but when I am 50 and look like I am 40, I will have no problems :-)). I do not fit the "image" of a pot smoker at all. I fit the image of a nerd who doesn't even know what marijuana looks like, let alone what it is.

[Sara]

[color=#ff6600]I am going to take this opportunity to remind everyone to [b]keep the conversation civil.[/b] This applies to everyone.

Thank you.

out like the Spice Girls,
Sara[/color]

[size=1][color=darkblue][b]You go girl. -Shy[/b][/size][/color]