Brasil Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=Zeta]I keep saying that because he hasn't clicked them, and I want him to click them to get the other side of the story. Your side is the biased views set forth by the government. The other side would be the biased views of a pot smoker, no? You and him have your biased sites to draw your information on. I have mine. They are the opposite sides of the stories. Both will be biased. But you get both sides of the argument by reading both sides. You have one side of the story, and aren't willing to look at the other side. I have seen both sides Siren. You have not. You points are one sided, biased points taught to you at DARE in order for the government to "prove it is right" [/quote] I've clicked them, and they're nothing more than marijuana enthusiast propaganda, Zeta. Stop dancing around that, because it's not just an interpretation. That's just not a bias that I may or may not have. This isn't any political activist in me talking. This is the [i]English Major[/i] in me talking. Your "support" is propaganda. That's not my imagination. That's a [b]FACT[/b]. What do you think you'd find on a site that is part of a marijuana web-ring? What makes you think I've been brainwashed by the government? We're not playing Invasion of the Body Snatchers here. Wasn't Paranoia listed in the side effects somewhere, in some form or another? [quote]I used to be just like you. I would frown upon marijuana to the highest degree. I ended friendships over it. And after trying it and researching it myself, I have concluded that what we are taught is not the whole truth. And I changed my views. I changed them because I realized this.[/quote] I hadn't realized that a professional study from Harvard University could be so inaccurate, and that the reactions of those who enjoy the high they get could be so much more accurate. [quote]If my son wants to smoke marijuana, I am not going to tell him no. I would be a hypocrit then. But what I will tell him is if he gets into trouble with the law because of it, he is on his own. Just as I was.[/quote] Yes, but why not pro-actively avoid all of that, avoid the legal trouble, spare your son that legal trouble, and set a few ground rules, and make the reasoning behind those rules clear, concise, firm, but at the same time, amiable? [quote]Legalizing it will take away the chances of the weed being laced. Which is why I said that. I myself don't want my weed laced with anything, and I am sure others don't either. We have no control on that at this moment in time, because it isn't regulated. A whole load of benefits will come from legalizing it. The government will be able to regulate it. They will be able to tax it and make money, money which can be then used on the more powerful drugs. The jails of the country will be freed up from the thousands of first time drug offenders, over which half are probably because of marijuana. Like it or not, going to an 18 year old neighbor will be much safer than going through the black market to get your drugs. I know. I have been to both places. I prefer the neighbor. Naturally people will still use it. Just like alcohol and cigarettes. There are negative effects of alcohol and cigarettes and they are legal, effects that are worse than marijuana's.[/quote] And then it becomes a business like Big Tobacco, and quite possibly "suffering" from the same problems (i.e., big business getting hold of it and actually making the stuff addictive, much moreso than it is currently). If that happens, you're not looking at a stable society. You're going to have even more toxins added to MJ, more additives, etc. If it does get altered to be addictive...you're going to have mass addiction and mass highs. That's not a good idea. [quote]Please do tell me how I do have those characteristis. You do not know me. You do not know anything about me. My learning has not suffered. I am still a high honor roll student, with at least a 3.7 GPA every quarter. I am still able to think clearly, as established with my good school grades. If I couldn't think, I would not be getting good grades. My memory is as strong as ever. I remember things from before I started smoking. I remember things from times that I was smoking. I remember what I did Christmas Break of '03. I know what I did in January through March of last year when it was a smoke fest for me. Every day I smoked, and I can recall everything that we did. With all my times driving stoned, I have not once gotten into an accident. I have not once been pulled over. The only time I have been in an accident is when I wasn't stoned, hell it was before I even started smoking. So please do tell me how I show these characteristics.[/quote] You were arguing that the Ratings/Restrictions system was bunk and should be drastically altered, because you feel that people should be able to see pretty much whatever they want. You had the easy argument in Star Wars 411 (you know, the Rebellion is Good argument) and you were stumbling all over yourself in an attempt to make valid points. Not once have I seen a well-developed and coherent argument from you anywhere. They're always rambly; they're always all over the place. By the way, good grades are easy to come by. Read the material. Do the work. That's it. Kudos on your high GPA, but frankly, a high GPA is just that. A high GPA, and good grades aren't so impossible to get, Zeta. Your support point there isn't helping your argument. You're 17, eh? Still in high school, then? Getting good grades in high school is like kicking a midget in the chest: easy as hell. Memory-wise...I can remember HHA-75X, spot 52 back from my Senior year of high school...and I only glanced at the license plate in passing on my way back into the Gym. I can recall precisely what I was doing for my 5th birthday party. I can recall precisely what my last day of Freshman year was like. Do you want a cookie for being able to do what everyone is able to do easily? It's not hard to remember things to begin with. Driving? You got lucky, simple as that. That's all. That's it. There was no "OMG I am so ooober skilled when I am high!!" It was just dumb luck, Zeta. It wasn't you. You would like me to show you the loss of common sense? You're advocating an argument that boils down to a Bob Dylan song, "Everyone must get stoned." You're advocating essentially a stripping of authority. I ask you, what is the huge problem with MJ staying illegal and people using it for documented medicinal purposes? I find that you haven't really answered that question, and I'd like to hear your response. What is the huge problem with MJ staying illegal and people using it for documented medicinal purposes? [quote]Of course I am viewing it lightly. Because I know from first hand experience that it isn't what you are taught. It isn't a gateway drug. It isn't going to cause cancer. It isn't going to cause mental illness by itself. It isn't going to shorten your life dramatically. But no where have I said that it is completely harmless.[/quote] Why do you keep referring to that "completely harmless" line? I haven't been accusing you of saying it's completely harmless, if you hadn't noticed. Technically, it is a gateway drug, because like you've said, "in dealing with the black market, the buyer will be exposed to harder drugs." Also, where have I said MJ would cause cancer? Likewise, where have I stated that it's going to cause mental illness (oh, the Harvard study mentioned something about that...the study that you are seemingly entirely ignoring). Similarly, where have I said it's going to shorten lifespans? I don't know whose posts you're responding to here, Zeta, but they're not mine. One of the side effects of MJ usage was a lousy attention span, wasn't it? [quote]People are surprised that I smoke, because I do not look like a pot smoker. I am a 17 year old who happens to look very young (right now that is not good >_>, but when I am 50 and look like I am 40, I will have no problems :-)). I do not fit the "image" of a pot smoker at all. I fit the image of a nerd who doesn't even know what marijuana looks like, let alone what it is.[/QUOTE] You're 17, you're fighting the system, you're heavily into smoking pot. You distrust the government. You flock to pro-marijuana websites. You dislike authority. Well, gee golly hollerin n hootin! Howdy, cliche! Sara, I'm paying close attention to playing nice, don't you worry. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I'm against legalizing it. I find the use of drugs purely for enjoyment pointless and trying to escape from life. . .There are many ways to enjoy what life has to offer and have a good time, drugs are one of the many, and one of the more useless. While drugs give their users a high, there is payback for it. The hangover, the feeling of little energy after caffeine's effect wear off. Drugs have a price, because our brain is not built to have chemical imbalances such as drugs produce. I could ramble on about drugs. . .but I see no point. People shall, always, do what they want to. To me, drugs are pointless. They are something which shouldn't exist for recreational use. I will never drink alcohol, smoke pot, or anything. I've even given up caffeine, and will never drink it again in pop, or wherever else it can be found. Instead, I split my time into working out, writing, and playing video games. From these a derive my main satisfaction from life, a satisfaction which is greater than drugs could ever give me. If you advocate drugs and like recreational use, that is fine. You are your own person and can do as you wish. But when and if you become heavily addicted to a drug, I hope there is someone to pull you out. But then again, perhaps with many it will never go that far, and using drugs will be an every-so-often thing. All the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 My sites are just as biased as yours Siren. A site made by the government, or any other figure that is advocating what the government is saying, is just as biased as my pot smoking sites where it is pot smokers doing the talking. [QUOTE]I hadn't realized that a professional study from Harvard University could be so inaccurate, and that the reactions of those who enjoy the high they get could be so much more accurate.[/QUOTE] Do the test subjects all ready have the disorder? Does a history of it run in their family? Show me where it says this. Throwing out a comment that says it can cause mental disorder is worthless without. As said, you have a higher chance of contracting the mental disorder if it runs in your family, or if you all ready have it. For all I know all the subjects have a history of it in their family. Show me where it says this, and I will rescind my comments. I am not going to avoid it. My son will know that I will have smoked pot. I am not going to tell him what he can and can't put into his own body. So it still stands. He will be on his own if he gets into trouble with the law, just like me. There is NO NEED to add ANYTHING to marijuana, lol. Companies will have no need to add anything. They aren't going to start adding crap to it. Why? Because then people won't smoke it. People smoke it now, because they at least know there aren't additives in most cases. How was I stumbling over myself? lol. It was my personal opinion. I was digging through my sources and just posting what I got from each and every source. I said how I felt on the matter. I brought points to validate my position, as did you. There is no right or wrong answer in that topic, no relavance to this topic. Not needed. I believe strongly in my views on the rating system. I don't believe they should be what they are, and if they stay this way, they should be enforced the way they are written. Again, no relavance to this topic, and a matter of personal opinon. For some yes it is easy. I brought up my grades because you said it affected my learning. If it affects my learning, it won't just do it in college. It will do it in high school as well. It obviously hasn't affected my learning enough to drop my grades, my grades have stayed constant, despite the fact that I am a "pot-head." I brought up my memory because you claimed it has affected my memory. It clearly hasn't. If I am able to remember things while being stoned from years back, I can remember things from when I am not stoned. So it clearly hasn't affected me memory enought for me to not remember things. I am not the only driver Siren. If accidents are so wide-spread becasue of driving under the influence of marijuana, why don't we hear about them? Marijuana is widely available, and you can bet that just as many people drive stoned as drunk. But why it is always drunk drivers that get the attention? You would think accidnets caused by marijuana would be just as wide-spread and talked about, if not more, so as to stregthen the government's position on marijuana, no? I have said my reasons for the problems with it being illegal. Our jails are full of first time offenders with drugs, and probably half of them are for marijuana. Those spaces could be taken up with coke dealers, heroin dealers, etc.. We have money wasted on a war that is mostly against marijuana when it could be going towards the harder drugs. See the other topic for more if need be. My compltely harmless comments aren't directed at you, my apologies. Morpheous said that, and then it caught on with other people. I just emphasized the fact that I did not say that when I listed things about smoking. Please do tell me how I dislike the government? I don't agree with their stance on marijuana, plain and simple. I don't dislike them because of it. I don't ridicule them for it. I just don't agree with their stance on it. I guess that makes me dislike the government. *shrug* I guess this also means I distrust the government. *shrug* You flock to anti-marijuana sites. *shrug* Your sites are just as biased as mine. Your's are agreeing with the government's stance on the subject, mine isn't. Both are biased no matter how you look at it. How do I dislike authority? I just don't agree with authority's view on the matter. But hey, just like above, I guess that makes me dislike it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasil Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=Zeta]My sites are just as biased as yours Siren. A site made by the government, or any other figure that is advocating what the government is saying, is just as biased as my pot smoking sites where it is pot smokers doing the talking. You flock to anti-marijuana sites. *shrug* Your sites are just as biased as mine. Your's are agreeing with the government's stance on the subject, mine isn't. Both are biased no matter how you look at it.[/quote]Got news for you, Zeta. I just scoured Harvard's page and there's one mention made of federal funding in some 13 pages of Finance background, and in about 20 pages of various other Harvard bios. Their funding primarily comes from private fundraising, most notably spearheaded during the late 90s, I believe. They're not getting funded by your oppressive Big Brother-ish government, Zeta. They're not biased. Also, I haven't linked to any sites, so why are you attributing linkage to me? Are you replying to a post other than mine yet again? Is it Morpheus again? [QUOTE]Do the test subjects all ready have the disorder? Does a history of it run in their family? Show me where it says this. Throwing out a comment that says it can cause mental disorder is worthless without. As said, you have a higher chance of contracting the mental disorder if it runs in your family, or if you all ready have it. For all I know all the subjects have a history of it in their family. Show me where it says this, and I will rescind my comments.[/QUOTE]Mental illness doesn't run in my family. When my cousin, Stacey, was first getting into trouble, stealing and the like, Anthony was already into pot...and falling apart mentally. I love my cousins to death, but it was very clear that Stacey was the one responsible for what happened, and Anthony was freaking out. He never displayed that kind of behavior previously, before getting into drugs. You may try to accuse me of lying, or spinning this, or something to that effect...but everyone knows that I tell it straight-up, no lies. I'm a straight-shooter. I doubt you'll get the same attitude from say...that MJ web-ring. [quote]I am not going to avoid it. My son will know that I will have smoked pot. I am not going to tell him what he can and can't put into his own body. So it still stands. He will be on his own if he gets into trouble with the law, just like me.[/quote]Of course, this is providing your wife isn't turned off by the fact that you either were a heavy, heavy pot-head in the past, or continue to smoke pot because you felt you were doing fine in college, even with the pot smoking. [quote]There is NO NEED to add ANYTHING to marijuana, lol. Companies will have no need to add anything. They aren't going to start adding crap to it. Why? Because then people won't smoke it. People smoke it now, because they at least know there aren't additives in most cases.[/quote]No need? Tell that to the big corporations that are going to be getting hold of a newly-legalized drug and are going to have all sorts of creative avenues to concoct some really nasty, addictive substances. Zeta, you don't realize it, but legalizing MJ might very well be a worse avenue than keeping it illegal, because what do the big corporations do? They...that's right! They dilute products; they alter products. Plus, you've said it yourself. You don't smoke MJ because it's "pure." You smoke it to get high, to chill out. You're now [i]really[/i] starting to jump all over the place in your replies, Zeta. [QUOTE]How was I stumbling over myself? lol. It was my personal opinion. I was digging through my sources and just posting what I got from each and every source. I said how I felt on the matter. I brought points to validate my position, as did you. There is no right or wrong answer in that topic, no relavance to this topic. Not needed. I believe strongly in my views on the rating system. I don't believe they should be what they are, and if they stay this way, they should be enforced the way they are written. Again, no relavance to this topic, and a matter of personal opinon.[/QUOTE]They do have bearing, because those previous discussions do prove that you don't exactly have a very coherent method of presentation. And considering, too, that you had probably the easiest topic in the world in Star Wars 411, there's simply no excuse, other than negative side effects of drug consumption, for you to stumble so greatly and repeat yourself so often. You didn't even seem to be able to understand the idea of an unreliable narrator, and I spelled it out for you. And even then, it looked like it was going right over your head. Your comments regarding the use of the Death Star and its relevance to the conflict in the Middle East situation weren't supporting your argument at all, because you were arguing that using nuclear weapons in the Middle East was justified, provided those using the nuclear weapons are engaged in what is clearly a kill-or-be-killed scenario. Let's not forget your final post in that little discussion...you were trying to counter my argument with "Well, if that makes the Rebellion evil, then the Empire is evil, as well." Like I explained to you back then, what you thought was a counter was really a concession, because you were then admitting that the line previously believed to be a clear line between Good and Evil in Star Wars is actually blurred beyond recognition. That's just three little things out of two or three previous threads. I'd say that's certainly stumbling over yourself, Zeta. [QUOTE]For some yes it is easy. I brought up my grades because you said it affected my learning. If it affects my learning, it won't just do it in college. It will do it in high school as well. It obviously hasn't affected my learning enough to drop my grades, my grades have stayed constant, despite the fact that I am a "pot-head." I brought up my memory because you claimed it has affected my memory. It clearly hasn't. If I am able to remember things while being stoned from years back, I can remember things from when I am not stoned. So it clearly hasn't affected me memory enought for me to not remember things.[/QUOTE]Okay, so you're able to do things that are incredibly easy to begin with...and sometimes, are just quite mindlessly easy...that doesn't really support your claim that MJ doesn't affect skill and competency, because you're basing your assessment on things that are inherently easy. You're not setting the bar very high--hell, with minimal to moderate effort one can swing high Bs to As in high school. You have to try harder than that to support your argument here, because as it stands now, you still don't have any real and substantial evidence, apart from extremely questionable marijuana web-ring propaganda and evaluation criteria that isn't an adequate gauge for anything. [quote]I am not the only driver Siren. If accidents are so wide-spread becasue of driving under the influence of marijuana, why don't we hear about them? Marijuana is widely available, and you can bet that just as many people drive stoned as drunk. But why it is always drunk drivers that get the attention? You would think accidnets caused by marijuana would be just as wide-spread and talked about, if not more, so as to stregthen the government's position on marijuana, no?[/quote]What's a more attractive news story? Drunk driving or driving while high? That will answer your question, Zeta. [quote]I have said my reasons for the problems with it being illegal. Our jails are full of first time offenders with drugs, and probably half of them are for marijuana. Those spaces could be taken up with coke dealers, heroin dealers, etc.. We have money wasted on a war that is mostly against marijuana when it could be going towards the harder drugs. See the other topic for more if need be.[/quote]"Saving" money from the war on drugs that's most likely just going to go into the regulations if legalization occurs...yes...brilliant idea. And "probably half"? Are you just guessing here or are you going to again praise/quote your MJ web-ring linkage? And quite frankly, what reason do I have to believe that you've linked to some type of independent study (i.e., non-MJ-obsessed) in the other topic? [quote]My compltely harmless comments aren't directed at you, my apologies. Morpheous said that, and then it caught on with other people. I just emphasized the fact that I did not say that when I listed things about smoking.[/quote]Apology accepted, but it was pretty careless of you, wasn't it? You're not paying attention to the post you're replying to, apparently. [quote]Please do tell me how I dislike the government? I don't agree with their stance on marijuana, plain and simple. I don't dislike them because of it. I don't ridicule them for it. I just don't agree with their stance on it. I guess that makes me dislike the government. *shrug* I guess this also means I distrust the government. *shrug* How do I dislike authority? I just don't agree with authority's view on the matter. But hey, just like above, I guess that makes me dislike it.[/QUOTE]You're claiming that you don't distrust the government? How about the extended tirades that you've had in this very thread about how the government isn't telling us the whole truth, and how marijuana enthusiasts can open our eyes to the lies being spun by the government? You're dancing around my point, Zeta. You do distrust the government, and I'd think it's very reasonable to say that you do resent (synonymous with "dislike") authority...your posts here are testament to that. You don't like the government/authority punishing people for smoking pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 But what are they searching for? They are searching for the things the government as specifically stated. They are looking to prove it right for the government. They are looking to prove that they (the government) has been right all along. [QUOTE]Of course, this is providing your wife isn't turned off by the fact that you either were a heavy, heavy pot-head in the past, or continue to smoke pot because you felt you were doing fine in college, even with the pot smoking.[/QUOTE] Hell if they have problems with the past, I could care less. I won't be smoking in college anyways. Going to have to pay for my own out of state college, can't have money going to anything else, no care, nothing. [QUOTE] Plus, you've said it yourself. You don't smoke MJ because it's "pure." You smoke it to get high, to chill out. You're now really starting to jump all over the place in your replies, Zeta.[/QUOTE] Easy to understand really. You just gotta think. I smoke it to chill yes. Would I smoke it at all if it wasn't "pure"? No. So what I said still stands. Just have to think. My stance in that topic has been, and always will be that the Empire is evil and the Rebellion is not evil. I never said I agreed with what you guys were saying. I said the Empire is evil, Rebellion is not. I never agreed that the Rebellion was evil. Again, it has no relevance to the topic at hand. Big deal if I didn't have things in a coherent way in that topic. My stance in this topic is easy to understand, and in a manner in which one can look and find what I say. You obviously have no problems with it. [QUOTE]Okay, so you're able to do things that are incredibly easy to begin with...and sometimes, are just quite mindlessly easy...that doesn't really support your claim that MJ doesn't affect skill and competency, because you're basing your assessment on things that are inherently easy. You're not setting the bar very high--hell, with minimal to moderate effort one can swing high Bs to As in high school.[/QUOTE] Again, I said those things because you said my memory, learning,etc.. has been affected. It clearly has not, doesn't matter if it is high school or college. Weed isn't going to choose if it affects your learning in college or high school. I would think a driving accident concerning marijuana would be better news. It would strengthen the views that is a horrible drug. My saying that over half of the people in jail for first time offenses is entirely my own. I just threw out a random number. You hear more about a marijuana arrests, so I said more could be in there for marijuana than others. I am adding things to my posts so everyone else is clear on what is talking about. I referred to my links so that Morpheous, or others could read them. I referred to the compltely harmless comment so I don't get others coming in and saying I said that. It is to clarify matters, rather than leaving things misunderstood. You can choose to take them as being directed at you for all I care. I have said before that I am clarifying my issues for others, not for you. I don't distrust the government as I said. I said I disagree with their stance on marijuana. I can disagree with their stance and not distrust them, please. If you say I distrust the government on their stance on marijuana then you are right, but I don't distrust the government as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syk3 Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='James][color=#334366']The problem with your argument is that it reminds me of the "it's the person and not the gun" argument. In a sense both sides are correct.[/quote][/color] [color=black]Well, yeah, I understand what you're saying. Obviously it would have been the marijuana that brought out the predisposed mental condition, rather than materializing out of thin air. My argument was saying that the marijuana doesn't force you to take part in excessive use, in the sense that it's more habit forming than actually physically addictive, like Heaven's Cloud was saying. Which means you have a choice, and depending on the person, some will inevitably end up choosing the wrong one.[/color] [color=#334366][color=black]No one here is saying that marijuana is a harmless drug. No one is saying that there are no problems associated with it. I think a lot of you need to take a step back and realize that Zeta and I have never so much as implied this in our posts. Just because we support marijuana doesn't mean that we are oblivious to its own faults.[/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000][/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000]I could lecture you all until I'm blue in the face about how much safer pot is than other drugs, but in the end, it's going to do little to influence your opinions because none of you do or justify any other drug. Which is the main reason I bring up things such as junk food; this is something bad for you that many people consume on a daily basis. It would be hypocritical to then talk about how marijuana is bad for you.[/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000][/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000]Sure, between weed and fatty foods, the effects to your body are going to be different. That's a given. But on the large scale of things, and on the topic of moderation and excessive use, the correlation as well as how harmful it is going to impact your body is going to be similar for the two, I believe. To try to justify a reason to do either one instead of the other would be difficult (keep in mind, we're talking health effects to the body).[/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000][/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000]One study in particular for negative effects due to smoking marijuana would be the smoke itself. Smoking anything has been shown to have an adverse effect on your lungs after a certain amount of time. That is why bringing up the point of alternate, and safer, methods is not something that should simply be cast to the side as some kind of excuse or attempt to poorly justify our reasoning. The practice of things such as pipes, bongs, and vaporizers are going to lead to an even safer experience for your body because they help to filter out harmful chemicals that might otherwise end up in your throat.[/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000][/color][/color] [color=#334366][color=#000000]Even so, the herb is going to have different effects on different people. It's only common sense to discontinue use if you've had a bad experience; if it doesn't bring you joy, I don't see why someone would want to do it again.[/color][/color][color=#334366] [quote][i]The thing is though, the drug itself is what can trigger mental defects in people. It is known that there are mental consequences for smoking marijuana heavily if you are [i]not[/i] mentally unstable (note that I said "heavily") and it's also known that marijuana can aggrivate existing mental illnesses.[/i][/quote][color=black]Heavy marijuana use may bring out certain predisposed traits for some people, or make them worse than they already are, but that doesn't mean that it will simply create them from scratch. Any diagnosed mental illness that has gradually developed from longterm use of weed has always been within the person as potential for arising.[/color] [quote][i]So, if someone has a mild mental disorder that can be aggrivated by a drug (whether it's an illegal substance like marijuana or a legal one like alcohol), you could argue that it's the individual's fault for using that drug. And I would agree; I tend to believe that people are responsible for their own actions. [/i] [i]However, it's simply not correct for anyone to say that the poor harmless drug is not a problem at all.[/i][/quote][color=black]This goes back to what I was saying at the beginning of my post. Not only about the choices people make, but also about how everyone seems to assume that we think of the herb as "poor" and "harmless."[/color] [quote][i]I mean, you could say that heroin sitting there on its own isn't a problem until someone uses it. Of course that's the case -- but nobody is saying that these drugs jump up and force people to use them.[/i] [i]The problem [i]is[/i] "drug use" and "drug addiction" -- not necessarily the mere existence of the substance.[/i][/quote][color=black]Alright, the two factors working together result in a given problem, and them existing on their own won't do anything (but honestly, what's the point in stressing the simple existance of the substance if it was meant to be used in the first place?). Assuming that, however, even a[/color][color=black]fter a single use of a drug such as heroin, it [i]does [/i]in a sense force people to use it, since it's highly physically addictive. That's when the responsibility for use of the drug shifts from the person to the drug itself.[/color] [color=black]For marijuana, even after the first, for example, three uses, it's still up to the user whether or not he or she wishes to continue it.[/color] [quote][i]What I'm saying is that we have two extremes here.[/i] [i]One side is saying that marijuana will lead to the total decay of society and that it is one of the most dangerous drugs out there.[/i] [i]That is false.[/i] [i]The other side is saying that marijuana is harmless and that it doesn't do anything other than getting you high occasionally.[/i] [i]That is also false.[/i][/quote][color=black]Alright, then we agree. What's the problem?[/color] [quote][i]So please, try not to react in a knee-jerk fashion, especially if you (or anyone else) are going to start quoting statements from sources that have an interest in legalization of marijuana. Not to say that you are doing that specifically, but the legalization debate tends to lend itself to that kind of interference.[/i][/quote][color=black]A knee-jerk fashion? Is that how you describe someone who is supporting their opinion? lol Like I explained before, I'm merely reciting the first few sites that came up when I was searching for studies involving longterm marijuana usage. But if you are going to overlook their evidence since they come out in favor of weed, that's your own business I suppose.[/color] [/color][color=#334366][quote][i]That kind of tells me that you do have an interest in supporting marijuana here.[/i][/quote][/color] [color=black]*looks around* <_< Supporting marijuana? How dare I. :p Welcome to the topic, James, good to have you with us![/color] [color=#334366][quote][i] I mean, I don't think you are as objective as you say. ~_^[/i][/quote][/color] I don't agree with marijuana because I support it, I support it because I agree with it. Obviously with anyone it's impossible to eliminate all bias, and we can't discredit someone just because "oh, they havn't smoked it" or "oh, they have smoked it." But I do the best I can, and that's all I can say. For one, I don't ignore negative aspects of the herb. To ask for evidence isn't to necessarily be subjective to your cause. [color=#334366] [/color][color=#334366][quote][i]Wait a minute. I [i]never[/i] said that it was safe. Don't start twisting my words here. I said that it was "possibly safe if you know how to use it". In that sense, it compares directly to marijuana. How? Responsible use. If you use something in a responsible manner, you're far less likely to suffer serious consequences. If you abuse a substance, you're more likely to suffer serious consequences. [b]That[/b] is the essence of what I am saying. I am therefore not advocating or debating the legalization or validity of using marijuana in general. I am simply saying that marijuana is a drug, it has health risks associated with it (as does eating potato chips, as you accurately pointed out) and that with [b]any[/b] of these substances/foods/whatever, [b]responsible use[/b] is the key. That is really what is underscoring my whole philosophy here.[/i][/quote][color=black]I knew what you were saying, and if it looks like I was portraying it as something it wasn't, I apologize. My reasoning that went along with it still applies, though.[/color] [color=#000000]You're comparing responsible use of ecstacy with responsible use of marijuana. The responsibility with each, however, takes on a completely different role. In order to be safe with marijuana, you have to make sure that you don't do anything stupid that could put you in harm's way. But was ecstacy, you have to make sure you don't [i]die. [/i]You have to drink just enough water and account for other factors so that you avoid overdosing and killing yourself.[/color] [color=#000000]I get what you were trying to say, but it was just a bad example. lol I think it would have been better compared to a substance that could get out of control if you let it, but that's just me.[/color] [color=#000000]That's what it really comes down to, though. Resposibility. To use safer methods of getting high with the herb. To do it moderately. To avoid things such as getting in a car that increases risks of hurting yourself and others. There are so many things these days that are alright until you let it get out of control, and I just don't understand why people would treat marijana as any different.[/color] [color=#000000]I'm going to hold off on responding to your quoted material for now. I'll either wait for my friend to go through it, or come back to it later on.[/color] [/color] [quote name='Adahn][size=2']I am not a fan of tobacco. I grew up with almost all my relatives smoking, and there was never a moment when I wasn't utterly disgusted by it. My opinion, therefore, is biased and based upon my own predispositions, and has naught to do with research. When I'm walking to class, and someone is smoking behind/in front of/anywhere near me, I hate it. I hate the smell of it. I hate the way people smoke so casually. I hate the way they talk casually about it.[/quote][/size] [size=2]Ugh, yeah, I know. Don't get me started on that, lol. It's just disgusting to think that these people actually want to put that kind of stuff in their bodies, and when they do, and smell is just sickening. I've never been a fan of cigarettes in any respect.[/size] [size=2][quote][i]Now, people want to make marijuana legal. Do you understand what that means? We've accepted cigarettes and smokers. They're everywhere. They even have their own section in restaurants.[/i][/quote][/size] [size=2]Well, I think that overall, society does look down on smoking, seeing as how much they've been limiting areas to smoke. In a lot of restaurants, if there's not a smoking section, they'll just say that you can't smoke anywhere. Which is definitely a good thing.[/size] [size=2][quote][i]By legalizing marijuana, you'll send a message to all kids saying, "It's not that bad. In fact, it's so not-unhealthy that we're legalizing it after it having been an illegal drug!" You'll be making it very attractive to underage people. I would expect the number of students smoking pot to at least equal those who smoke cigarettes.[/i][/quote][/size] [size=2]Well compared to what the government has been telling us about marijuana, it really would be beneficial to kids to explain that it actually isn't as bad as what it has been made out to be. And I mean that only in the respect that they should be taught truthfully.[/size] [size=2][quote][i]Also, despite all the studies on marijuana not having bad side effects, I'd like to see one that showed the benefits of marijuana (being used as it will if made legal). Sure, junk food isn't very healthy, but it's food.[/i][/size][/QUOTE]It's still food, but you have the option not to eat it, just like with doing anything else. But refering to the benefits of marijuana, that reminds me of two posts in the previous topic we had on this. [QUOTE=Me]The majority of the positive effect come from the medical aspect, that's true. The understanding of marijuana on the human body is crucial for an important new medicine that could benefit millions of people, creating a very distinct field of research. Already, the herb has been found to "be useful in treating pain, nausea and appetite loss caused by advanced cancer and AIDS," and are also shown help with glaucoma and arthritis. Effects caused by THC, such as short term memory loss, also help researchers study different aspects of and changes in the human brain. After you cover the medical standpoint, however, it gets down to the individual and how they are affected by the drug. In many cases, it can stimulate creativity, not only artistically but in writing and other forms that benifit from imaginative thinking. It makes you feel good and calms you down, as well as enhances the fun for a number of activities. Of course, this is subjective thinking, but it's generally true as well. On marijuana, you could see a problem from a different perspective, and often times it will break the cycle and allow you to move on. If you want to be responsible in getting high, pot is a good choice, due to it being much safer than other drugs.[/quote]And.. [quote name='Heaven's Cloud][color=indigo]You don?t weigh the benefits of something before you make it legal, you weigh the consequences. The marketplace is currently saturated with products that, with the exception of enjoyment, offer no benefits (Twinkies, most video games, and reality television to name a few). But partaking in these activities doesn?t directly or indirectly hurt anyone but the partaker. If an object or substance doesn?t present a threat to anyone other than the user than why should the government become involved? I don?t think the government should protect ourselves from ourselves.[/color][/QUOTE][QUOTE=Siren']Oh, common sense, where hast thou gone?[/quote]I'm wondering the same. [quote][i]Seriously. Why would people even begin to believe that legalizing marijuana is a good thing? I mean...I can see it for medicinal purposes, yes, but so the recreational pothead can get high? [i]C'mon[/i] lol.[/i][/quote]Honestly, what is so dreadfully wrong with being allowed to pocess a small amount for intent of personal consumption within your own home? If people want to do it, they should have that choice instead of being told. I have some quotes in the bottom of my post which support my opinion. [quote][i]There are serious lapses in judgment when you use marijuana. It [i]does[/i] have adverse reactions on thought processes. Hell, you can see that from a few of the Pro-Legalization posts in these two Marijuana threads.[/i][/quote]Not having tried it, you would not realize that while under the influence of marijuana, you have complete and utter control over any decisions that you make. And you remember them later, as well. I also cited a particular study that set out to experiment for cognition effects from long term excessive use of weed. But.. God forbid, the end result is that marijuana doesn't seem to have any. So it must be bias. [quote][i]I, for one, like any [i]sensibly minded person[/i], do not want 18-year-olds buying Mary-Jane and giving it to their 15-year-old friends. Hello, people, that's not a good thing, no matter how stoned you want to be.[/i][/quote]What's stopping them from doing it right now? Except that at the moment, the 15 year olds are in no need of a middle man that has ID. You seem like you would probably be a little surprised at how accessable it already is without being legal, since most of your points are already bypassed. [quote][i]What are some of the other argument points for the legalization...[/i][/quote]I really have not had a lot of thought concerning legalization. I mean sure, it would be nice, especially with something like one of my above comments about for personal use, but due to taxes and lacing with poisons, I'm kind of split. When the government can responsibly legalize it with reprocussions for its abuse, then I say go for it. [quote][i]It's better for everyone, because it's more accessible, and can be bought virtually everywhere? Oh, yeah. I'd just [i]love[/i] to be able to walk into my local Rite-Aid and see some High School Senior loading up on the stuff. [i]Real[/i] great argument there.[/i][/quote]Uhh.. I think I missed your point. lol Other than it being accessable already as it is, I don't think anyone has argued that it should be legalized simply so that it would be more accessible. o.o [quote][i]One, I seriously think people are taking the "Pro-Legalization" angle way, way too far, because much of what is being suggested is incredibly, [i]incredibly[/i] unwise.[/i][/quote]I don't see what's so bad about personal use with reprocussions for its abuse. But.. maybe that's just me. lol [quote][i]Two, I seriously think that marijuana has a much greater adverse effect on mental functions (*cough*Zeta*cough*) than people may realize (*cough*Zeta*cough*).[/i][/quote]Not all mental functions are based on whether or not people agree with you, lol. [quote][i]Universally legalizing marijuana with no considerations at all to the consequences...I don't believe I've ever heard of anything so absurd.[/i][/quote]Yeah, there should be consequences to account for the legalization. What's your point? [font=Verdana][size=2][quote][i][/size][/font]Good idea: Helping your grandfather up the stairs.[/i] [i]Bad idea: Helping your high school friends get high.[/i][/QUOTE]*tries to figure out exactly what helping your grandfather has to do with marijuana* [quote name='James][color=#334366]But way, [i]way[/i'] too many people seem to think that marijuana is a really light substance that doesn't even have as much impact as tabacco. As you can see by what I've posted, it does contain some similar toxins, but it can also have different effects.[/quote][/color] [color=#334366][color=black]Depends what you mean by impact (good/bad). And whether when you refer to tobacco, you're talking about cigarettes.[/color][/color] [quote name='M.Ali][font=trebuchet ms']Afterall, no matter how much you sugar-coat it, drugs are still, drugs... [/font][/quote]One way you can look at it, though.. is that marijuana is a plant. It's not a processed substance (though some is grown more potent), it's all-natural and a God-giving herb. That doesn't make it perfect, but it still should be considered. [quote name='Baron Samedi][size=1]I don't think that you can argue against the fact that marijuana does affect how you are when you're not taking it. [/size][size=1']I'm not going to cite studies... but you can almost always tell a pothead, which should tell you something.[/quote][/size] [size=1]Most of the immediate effects seen from pot wear off completely when you aren't high. Sometimes people will stereotype "potheads" as being lazy and underacheivers, so you might automatically associate those people with the herb, though you're not always right. It's also interesting to note that nearly everyone has someone they trust who either do the drug or know someone else who does.[/size] [size=1][quote][i]I think that if people can't find other 'outs' or ways to enjoy themselves, then that is pretty sad. But it's not my problem, either.[/i][/size][/QUOTE]It's not that they [i]can't[/i] have fun another way, it's that with marijuana they [i]can[/i] have fun. [quote name='Siren']I saw him numerous times before he started getting into the heavy stuff, and the glaze already was there, the sort of distant, lazy stare of a mind perpetually in a state of drifting off. He wasn't even doing the heavy, heavy stuff back in high school, and I'm fairly sure he only just got his GED last year. We would have both graduated in 2001.[/quote]Have you ever thought to consider whether this might not have been the pot, and is just the way your cousin presents himself, since he's aparently lazy? [quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I've heard of people getting messed up because the dealer mixed up other stuff in the marijuana. My husband once got some stuff that was mixed with angeldust that stuf screwed him up and he couldn't get up for a while (he was in HS at the time and that made him stop). And I heard of this other kid that was put in a coma because of the stuff that someone mixed into his stuff.[/color][/quote]Yeah, I would always say that the most dangerous thing about marijuana is buying it. :p Another reason to legalize it, maybe? [quote name='Afire][font=Trebuchet MS][size=1][color=red']First of all, I would like to say that marijuana comes from a plant that I think is rather beautiful. I like plants and flowering things. I don't think any plant should be illegal. After all, did not God create them? [/quote][/color][/size][/font] [font=Trebuchet MS][size=1][color=red][color=black]Very good point. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. I wil also take this time to say that, while not going through and quoting specifically, that I agree with most of what you're saying.[/color] [quote][i]There's been alot of talk here about the "smoking of marijuana," but I haven't heard anyone talk about the use of marijuana without smoking. I've heard of people eating marijuana in brownies and in rice crispy treats or making marijuana tea. That would take care of the smoke inhalation danger. I still think it's much safer than alot of prescription drugs and has less dangerous side effects.[/i][/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE][color=black]You should try looking harder then, heheh. ;) [QUOTE=Morpheus]Just because something isn't as bad as it seems doesn't mean it's good. Here's a little story: I was in Florida in October, and our waiter said the only thing he lost in the storm was a few windows in his car. He said that it wasn't as bad as it looks on TV. Does that mean he wants another to come through? No. In fact, he said he'll leave Florida for good come next hurricane.[/quote]I think you're missing a lot about what we're talking about here. o.o [quote][i]Marijuana hurts you. It impairs you. I still don't understand why you do it. In "Falsely Accused" you said you use it to just chill. There is a very simple process to chilling:[/i] [i]1. Go to a room with only one or two doors.[/i] [i]2. Sit your a** down.[/i] [i]3. Turn on said music, movie, etc.[/i] [i]4. Point middle finger(s) at door(s).[/i] [i]Problem solved.[/i][/QUOTE]Here we are again with this "marijuana hurts you" crap and not even bothering to back it up. Sure it does, but not to the extent you're thinking. :p And smoking pot enhances chilling, it doesn't have to define it. [quote name='Morpheus]I do those things, and they are bad for you [b][i]IF[/b][/i'] you use too much.[/quote]A-ho, thank you for proving my point. And yeah, you have to have some meat on your bones, but you don't have to starve yourself if you don't have junk food. Just eat something other than junk food. [quote]If you know how much water to drink, it is safe in small doses. If you don't, you shouldn't take it. If you do take it and you know how much water to drink, you are an idiot for putting your heart at risk.[/QUOTE]You aren't actually suggesting that ecstacy is safe/okay, are you? Even without the water concept? [quote name='Morpheus']2. I'd prefer no drugs at all, thank you very much. Unless you are sick it's pure stupidity to put a mind altering substance into your body.[/quote]Did you know that caffiene is a mind altering and addictive substance, and could potentially cause you to overdose? [quote][i]3. You obviously don't understand.[/i][/QUOTE]*thinks for a second* ..no, I'd better not. :/ [quote name='Siren]Yes, you've had first-hand experience with pot. Yes, you've smoked it extensively throughout your life. If there are negative side-effects (which according to [i]Harvard University[/i]...there are negative side-effects), then surely you would be showing evidence of those side-effects, true? Side-effects like "In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning." For a long term user such as yourself, you would most certainly strongly display those characteristics, and...you [i]do[/i'].[/quote]Well, first of all, when they say short term, they mean like.. while you're high. Maybe 2/3 hours. Not a lingering that that might go away after a month or so. And to say that Zeta is displaying this is not only innacurate, but a blatant attempt to say that "your thought process is messed up, so I'm right and you're wrong." lol [quote][i]When you talk about weed here, I?m not surprised [i]at all[/i], based on your post history (not only in threads about MJ, but anywhere).[/i][/quote]Is this based on your pre-imagined judgemental idea of someone who smokes being a bad person, again since he's arguing a different point? I don't know how you can tell if someone online smokes pot unless they actually tell you, because there's such a variety in people who use the herb that it's pointless to narrow it down. [quote][i]Oh, yes. The ?research? that you linked to in a previous thread? With one site that belonged to a [i]marijuana enthusiast web-ring[/i], and another site with articles written by a [i]marijuana enthusiast[/i]? Those sites that are designed and tailored For Potheads, By Potheads? Yes, really impartial and unbiased there. Drop the act, open your eyes, and resist the weed.[/i][/quote]How about you get over what side they're on and just read it? If it's so biased, then you'll be able to pick out the flaws and easily explain how they are wrong. Couldn't hurt, you know? That doesn't suddenly make you any less bias to ignore the other side of the story altogether. [quote][i]You're not even replying with any real points anymore, just "Click my links and the truth will be revealed!" You've seemingly entirely ignored the Harvard University studies, claiming that a bunch of pot-smokers online know more about what's really going on than organizations like DARE and professional studies from top-tier Ivy League schools.[/i][/quote]Most of your points are trying to discredit Zeta from sharing his own opinion, based on what I've seen. And those studies, you mean the ones that said that there are short term effects for the herb? Well, of course there are. People use it to feel the euphoria as well as those effects in the couple hours that they are high. [quote][i]You've got nothing to go on anymore, because your points have been refuted, and now you're simply refusing to discuss anything else, only falling back to the "You don't know what you're talking about so therefore I can't have a discussion with you anymore" fallacy of debate. Don't pull a Sciros, lol, and try to rationalize this.[/i][/QUOTE]Wait, now you're saying that his points have all been refuted and he's going on nothing? He's just too tired of relaying the same facts over and over again if you're not going to listen. So what does he do? He attempts to point you in the direction of where you can find the information he's been saying all along. He's not that desperate to have to defend pot for the sake of pot. XD [quote name='Siren]I've clicked them, and they're nothing more than marijuana enthusiast propaganda, Zeta. Stop dancing around that, because it's not just an interpretation. That's just not a bias that I may or may not have. This isn't any political activist in me talking. This is the [i]English Major[/i] in me talking. Your "support" is propaganda. That's not my imagination. That's a [b]FACT[/b']. What do you think you'd find on a site that is part of a marijuana web-ring? What makes you think I've been brainwashed by the government? We're not playing Invasion of the Body Snatchers here. Wasn't Paranoia listed in the side effects somewhere, in some form or another?[/quote]Paranoia, yeah.. when you're high you freak out if you think your parents or the cops will catch you. When you're high. ;) But anyway, if you want to ignore the facts on those pages, then go ahead, I guess. We don't ignore pages that are against it with facts from the opposition. [quote][i]Yes, but why not pro-actively avoid all of that, avoid the legal trouble, spare your son that legal trouble, and set a few ground rules, and make the reasoning behind those rules clear, concise, firm, but at the same time, amiable?[/i][/quote]Well, that's the thing. If it's okay if your kid smokes, you are of course going to make sure that he doesn't take it out of control, like if his grades drop and such because of the habit. But to just say no entirely and yet do it yourself.. doing what you preach can often set a strong example. [quote][i]And then it becomes a business like Big Tobacco, and quite possibly "suffering" from the same problems (i.e., big business getting hold of it and actually making the stuff addictive, much moreso than it is currently). If that happens, you're not looking at a stable society. You're going to have even more toxins added to MJ, more additives, etc. If it does get altered to be addictive...you're going to have mass addiction and mass highs. That's not a good idea.[/i][/quote]We agree! :D [quote][i]You were arguing that the Ratings/Restrictions system was bunk and should be drastically altered, because you feel that people should be able to see pretty much whatever they want. You had the easy argument in Star Wars 411 (you know, the Rebellion is Good argument) and you were stumbling all over yourself in an attempt to make valid points. Not once have I seen a well-developed and coherent argument from you anywhere. They're always rambly; they're always all over the place.[/i][/quote]How, in any way, does bringing up old threads where you've debated with him before have anything to do with what we're talking about now? [quote][i]By the way, good grades are easy to come by. Read the material. Do the work. That's it. Kudos on your high GPA, but frankly, a high GPA is just that. A high GPA, and good grades aren't so impossible to get, Zeta. Your support point there isn't helping your argument. You're 17, eh? Still in high school, then? Getting good grades in high school is like kicking a midget in the chest: easy as hell.[/i][/quote]Easier said than done. If you're smart, you'll do okay, but high school does have a considerable amount of work that has to be done. Once you get out and into college, it's a lot simpler to just say, "oh, high school was a breeze." I don't know about your school, but I'm taking four AP classes and starting to struggle a bit with all of the work. Why do you think Colleges put a lot of concentration on GPAs if they were easy as hell to obtain? Obviously that isn't the only thing they look at, but so much stuff is determined by your GPA that to say it's so easy is to overlook its importance. [quote][i]Memory-wise...I can remember HHA-75X, spot 52 back from my Senior year of high school...and I only glanced at the license plate in passing on my way back into the Gym. I can recall precisely what I was doing for my 5th birthday party. I can recall precisely what my last day of Freshman year was like. Do you want a cookie for being able to do what everyone is able to do easily? It's not hard to remember things to begin with.[/i][/quote]And if you smoked, it most likely wouldn't have been any different for you. lol [quote][i]I ask you, what is the huge problem with MJ staying illegal and people using it for documented medicinal purposes? I find that you haven't really answered that question, and I'd like to hear your response. What is the huge problem with MJ staying illegal and people using it for documented medicinal purposes?[/i][/quote]Nothing's [i]wrong[/i] with it, but when controlling for responsibility, might as well legalize it all for personal consumption without intent to sell, etc. etc. [quote][i]Technically, it is a gateway drug, because like you've said, "in dealing with the black market, the buyer will be exposed to harder drugs."[/i][/quote]Score one for legalization, lol. Most users of harder drugs have done pot, yes, but most pot users have not gone on to harder drugs. Keep that in mind. [quote][i]You're 17, you're fighting the system, you're heavily into smoking pot. You distrust the government. You flock to pro-marijuana websites. You dislike authority. Well, gee golly hollerin n hootin! Howdy, cliche![/i][/quote]If that was true, he'd probably be doing a lot more than just support pot. lol To be rebellious for the sake of rebellion is like.. arguing for the sake of arguing. Oh wait. ;) You're taking in government lies, how cliche! :p [quote name='Mitch']I'm against legalizing it. I find the use of drugs purely for enjoyment pointless and trying to escape from life. . .There are many ways to enjoy what life has to offer and have a good time, drugs are one of the many, and one of the more useless.[/quote]There are many reasons to turn to drugs. Escaping, fitting in, enjoyment, understanding, along with others and many grey areas in between. I don't support the escaping or fitting in aspects, simply because it's just another way of running away from reality and who you are. Wimps. [quote][i]I would also like to bring up a point. Of the people who are in America's teeming jails, most are in there for drugs. It is a rather minor offense compared to burgularly, and whatever else you have. With our jails getting fuller and fuller, our entire prison system is taking more and more money. . .eventually we'll need a solution to combat this problem.[/i][/QUOTE]Legalization with everything I said about it in previous comments might. It's rediculous how much our government spends on what seems like such a worthless crime. I would like to end my post with some quotes from former presidents. "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln "Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana in private for personal use." - Jimmy Carter[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiHorsewoman Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=Zeta]Pipe: Tar accumulates on the side, as to many other things you don't want to get into your lungs. Naturally some of it gets through anyways. Have you ever seen a pipe used to smoke marijuana? They are pretty nasty after a whole bunch of tar and crap gets accumulated. They do the job pretty well. Water bong: The smoke travels through water before entering your lungs. The water filters out tar, and tens of other things that would otherwise enter your lungs. Giving you a pleasent, non-irritating smoke. Have you seen bong water after a few uses? It is a nasty colour with all the crap that [i]could[/i] be entering your lungs, but isn't. They work better than pipes. Vaporizer: You place it in a sort of glass tube and you heat up the glass. This in turn heats up the marijuana, activating the THC, the thing that gets you high, and causing it, and only it to rise. It rises as a green smoke. It is [i]only[/i] THC, and there will be minute traces of anything else if there is any at all. That is a pretty damn safe way to smoke it. You don't get the nasty smoke at all period. Which means you aren't bringing in anything that is associated with smoking it in the ways you have heard of most. Eating: You hear the marijuana up with some food, eat it, and wait for about a haf hour for it to kick in. Not only will you get a different kind of high, you will virtually eliminate any risk you have from smoking it, even the minute amount you would get from a vaporizer. Morpheous. Which would you prefer. A drug that can kill you first time use, such as ecstacy? Or a drug that will never kill you first time use, and cannot overdose on? Even if you are sitting at home and being responsible with ecstasy, you have a higher chance of dieing from it first use. I prefer the marijuana, no matter how responsible I am with ecstasy. Everything you put into your body is basically bad for you in some way.Why add anything that can harm you to your body? Might as well not add half the stuff in the world if you wan't to go with that mind set. Adding marijuana isn't going to dramatically reduce your life. It isn't going to give you lun cancer. It isn't going to be the cause of you going onto harder drugs, as myself and H.C have pointed out.[/QUOTE] [color=darkviolet]You know what, I'm going to make the world come to a crashing halt and agree with what Siren said about you...all that weed has gone to your brain causing you to believe that what you're doing isn't hurting yourself. You do realize that when you smoke weed you hold it in your lungs for a while so you can get the full effects of whatever you're smoking. And I realized that you left out using the cigarettes (what do you call them?) because I believe those are just as harmful as regular government approved cigarettes. As Kane would say: Interesting, most interesting. [i]Everything[/i] you put into your body isn't harmful when used in moderation. Fats are good because if you eliminate them you can end up with kidney stones. Carbs are good because they help keep you regular and they give you energy. Moderation is good, excess is bad. Extremism is bad and uh...drugs not used in moderation, like uh...marijuana is bad. However, if you still want to continue being stoned, be my guest. I'm sure lots of people could use the entertainment.[/color] Quote: Originally Posted by ChibiHorsewoman I've heard of people getting messed up because the dealer mixed up other stuff in the marijuana. My husband once got some stuff that was mixed with angeldust that stuf screwed him up and he couldn't get up for a while (he was in HS at the time and that made him stop). And I heard of this other kid that was put in a coma because of the stuff that someone mixed into his stuff. [/quote] [quote]Yeah, I would always say that the most dangerous thing about marijuana is buying it. Another reason to legalize it, maybe?[/quote] [color=darkviolet]Sounds good, but you skipped quoting the other part of my post where I mentioned that people abuse perscription drugs every day. And government regulation doesn't always help. Have you heard about the recent problems with botox? Where instead of the exspensive government regulated botox it was the hazrdous type. Besides, it doesn't sound by your posts that you're trying to ask people if they feel marijuana should be allowed for medicinal purposes, you're trying to legitimize the government allowing you to buy marijuana for recreational purposes, which is ridiculous. Why should the government and tax payers be expected to pay for you to get high?[/color] :flaming: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='Blinky']Morpheus, the dumbass comment not only wasn't nessasary, it was ******* hilarious coming for someone with retardation as severe as you.[/quote][color=#ff6600]I cannot believe that you thought this was appropriate to post [u]at all[/u], much less [i]immediately after I reminded people to keep the conversation civil.[/i] [b]If you act like this again, you will be banned.[/b] [size=1]not for individual resale, Sara[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiHorsewoman Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=Zeta] Read my posts again. I know it is hurting me, but not to the degree you, and everyone else thinks it is. Read my posts.[/QUOTE] [color=darkviolet] You just admitted that you knew you're hurting yourself. If you know you're hurting yourself, then why do you still do it? That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Any sane person would try to stop themselves from doing something that's hurting them. Just put down the (insert what you're smoking here) and walk away.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet] You just admitted that you knew you're hurting yourself. If you know you're hurting yourself, then why do you still do it? That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Any sane person would try to stop themselves from doing something that's hurting them. Just put down the (insert what you're smoking here) and walk away.[/color][/QUOTE][color=#ff6600]But it's been said again and again in this thread that other things also hurt you. I mean, I can't think of one single redeeming aspect of potato chips. That argument clearly isn't working here. [size=1]I support college radio, Sara[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='Zeta'] I know it is hurting me.[/quote] So why in hell do you smoke it? You aren't making any sense here. "I know I'm hurting myself" has to be the stupidest thing I've seen someone say in a good while. Let's do a comparison. Let's say you are cutting yourself as a stress reliever, because MJ seems to be your stress reliever. Is stabbing yourself with a 1/2 inch blade safe and acceptable because it's not as dangerous as a 1 inch blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 There is a huge difference there Morpheous. That is causing physical harm. We are talking about things being put [i]into[/i] the body and how they are not as bad as they seem. That is an entirely different matter. Sure you are hurting yourself, but they are done in completely different ways. And then if you look at it this one, instead of cutting oneself, they could smoke marijuana instead and be happy. :p Anyways, different matters entirely. Why put chips into your body? Coffee? Milky Way?s? Snickers? Nothing is positive about those. You can even become addicted to caffeine, which as you know is completely legal and present in coffee as well as many soda's. You can't become addicted to marijuana. CHW I left out joints because they have been talked about over and over again in this and the other topic. I saw no need to add them again, as they are the most widely known way for smoking. I went into the other ways, the ways not widely known, or at least widely known in n this thread. I figured joints were common knowledge. I wrote the many ways that one could smoke to show you how you can [i]minimize[/i] the harm that can come. Not to completely eliminate. I say right in each of those that they aren't perfect. [QUOTE]You do realize that when you smoke weed you hold it in your lungs for a while so you can get the full effects of whatever you're smoking.[/QUOTE] Oh my Lord. Is [i]that[/i] how you do it? All these years and I have been doing it wrong... Of course I realize that. But with the ways I mention you can help minimize the amount of toxins that are entering the body. I never said they eliminate them. [QUOTE]Pipe: Tar accumulates on the side, as to many other things you don't want to get into your lungs.[b]Naturally some of it gets through anyways.[/b] Have you ever seen a pipe used to smoke marijuana? They are pretty nasty after a whole bunch of tar and crap gets accumulated. They do the job pretty well.[/QUOTE] Just for an example. And the eating doesn't allow any smoke to enter your body. So you don't even hold it into your lungs. I am going to recap what I have been saying, so more people don't get confused as to what I am saying. It is going to be long yes. I have been a pot smoker for a good couple of years now. Before I started I was just like Siren, Morpheous, and everyone else who believes as they do. After smoking, I realized that what we are all taught about marijuana isn't entirely true. Siren tried to attack me and claim my memory, learning, and judgment, etc.has suffered from my long time use. I refuted his claims right off the bat. My grades have stayed constant. My health has not deteriorated. My memory is as strong as it was before I started smoking. Everything he tried to nail me with has not happened. And will not happen. He then tries to go "it is only high school, so it is not hard." If he wants to say that fine. If he thinks weed will only cause those things in college that is fine. But the fact of the matter is, is that weed won't choose if it wants you to have trouble learning, having problems with your memory, etc.just because you are in college and is harder. If it has affected my learning, memory, etc.it would be seen now, and clearly it isn't. He tried to twist around my posts by saying I said I was smoking pot for different reasons and two points in the thread. All one would have to do is just put two and two together, and would still get the same answer. I said earlier that I smoke to chill. I then said I smoked because it was pure. Now, would I smoke something that is not pure? That is laced with someone along the lines of PCP? No. Therefore I would not be smoking to chill either. But, I do smoke because weed is as pure as one can get. I can then smoke it to chill. What was so hard to understand about that? He is trying to find ways to make me look inconsistent, so everyone else will not even bother reading what I say. No one clicks on my websites as far as I am aware. If I can click on a website that is searching for the truths in what the government has to say about marijuana, I am entering just as biased as a site of one going to marijuana.com. If Siren truly did click and look around the site, he would realize that marijuana.com covers [i]both[/i] sides of the argument. You have to visit the forums and read all the articles on the site. It isn't just a pro-marijuana site. They do have the other side as well. You just have to look around. If Siren did click the link, he didn't look around enough. James, Siren, and others have been advocating that it causes mental illness. Again, I [i]know[/i] that it can cause a mental illness that is all ready present in someone to progress, or it runs in his or her family to have a higher chance of actually contracting it. Which I have said throughout. But what I have yet to see is clear and concise testing that says a mental disorder can come straight from marijuana. The tests that have been provided do not tell you if it runs in the person?s family or that the person all ready has it. When I see the full tests, saying specifically that those tested have no history of the illness and don't have it at the present time, I will gladly rescind my statements. Morpheous said in the thread Falsely Accused that I posted saying that marijuana was harmless. Not true. I never said such a thing. I have repeated over and over, that I know it isn't harmless. But what I have said is that [i]it is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.[/i] there is a difference between that and saying it is harmless. Siren also said this, whether he wants to believe it or not. It is right here Siren: [QUOTE]You're sitting here and telling me that smoking pot has no ill effects at all (that is what your posts are saying...whether or not you realize that is a rather important issue here).[/QUOTE] Not as blunt as Morpheous. But you still said that I am saying there is nothing that is harmful about marijuana. Siren keeps on bring up the short-term effects, etc. As seen here: [QUOTE]Side effects like "In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning." For a long-term user such as yourself, you would most certainly strongly display those characteristics, and..you do.[/QUOTE] Judging by that and other posts of that nature, I don't think Siren actually knows what in the short term itself means. In the short term means when you are actually stoned, just as Syk3 said. The last part of that post does make sense. But again, it hasn't happened to me as he claimed it has. I have not displayed [i]any[/i] of those characteristics. I can remember back as far as I have always been able to. I can remember exactly what I was doing Christmas Break 2003, and January through April of 2004. Those are times in which I [i]shouldn't[/i] be able to remember things based on what Siren is saying, because I was stoned practically every day. I shouldn't be remembering that the first day of Christmas Break I spent 3 hours after school bowling and going out to dinner with my friends Dave and Eric. That I had take Eric to his house before we even got to the bowling alley so he could get some money. That after dinner we were going to go see Return of the King but didn't because Eric's dad called and said he had to come home. That he said at his house that he had a fun time and that we should do it again. That after dropping Dave off at his house, I can back and found Darryl, Dan, Justin, Ross, Brad, Raj, and Ben in the garage. And that Bob and Rod stopped by and we all smoked a 1-2 bowls. And afterwards how we all took turns playing Battlefield 1942, and watched Saving Private Ryan. I still remember that Darryl slept o n the floor of my room parallel to my dresser with his head under the bed, how Ben and myself slept on top of the bed, with Raj between us. How Brad, Dan, and Justin slept in Brad's room with Brad o n the floor in front of his bed and Justin and Dan in the bed. I shouldn't remember that but I do. I remember everything else we did as well. And a very important thing that comes into play here, is that I have been on both sides of the bandwagon. As I said above I used to be just like Siren, Morpheous, and anyone else that believes as they do. But now I am not. If the government was 100% right, I would still be on that side of the bandwagon. But I am not. I am not on that side because through my first-hand experience, which Siren and others do not have, I found out the truth about many things. I am not saying the government was 100% wrong, I am saying they aren't 100% right. Lapse in judgment are not on the scale that they say. When you are high, you have complete control of yourself. You can walk, drive if you desire, carry on conversations with people that are not high. Siren and others do not know this because they haven't tried it. So the cannot speak as if they know what they are talking about on this subject. They can regurgitate what they have read from works from the government or other agency that is out to prove they are right, but they don't know what it is actually like, and that it is far different than what the believe. Loss of memory and impaired learning are not bad on a grand scale at all as you are led to believe. As above I was able to tell you exactly what I did over a year ago, I was even high for most of that night. If anything it should be when I am high that I don't remember things, but I do remember. My grades are as strong as ever. As stated above, marijuana isn't going to choose to start causing problems with learning in college just because it is harder. You would start seeing it take place now, and it isn't happening. My dealer down here in Georgia has been smoking for longer than I have, his first two years of high school he was a 4.0 GPA, and now he is a 3.8/3.9. Oh my, marijuana has affected his learning skills to a great degree. :rolleyes: The fact of the matter is Siren; you can rationalize your argument by saying high school is easy all you want. High school is not easy if you challenge yourself, which is what myself, my dealer, and many other pot smokers do. We don't take the Basic English, Math's, and all that. We take the AP Physics, AP Composition, AP US History. Naturally they aren't as hard as college, but they sure as hell aren't easy. Rationalize it all you want. The problems with memory and learning would be showing up now, as well as in college. Legalize marijuana? Hell, everyone here knows I am all for it. I wish it to be legalized because it is illegal for many of the wrong reasons, if not wrong reason, then reasons that are blown up and distorted. Marijuana is just as available, probably more so than alcohol because you will need someone with an ID to buy alcohol, and just as widely used while driving. But you don't hear about marijuana accidents, you hear about drunk driving accidents. Again, Siren tried to rationalize his comments by saying which is more interesting. The marijuana would be more interesting wouldn't you think? Drunk driving accidents happen all the time, there is no surprise. You don't hear about marijuana accidents. You would think you would hear about them just as much because it can strengthen the government?s position on it is a drug that is completely bad for you. But you don't hear about them. Even if they decide on the basis of what he has said, that drunken accidents are more interesting, you would still hear about them here and there. And I for one have not heard about any. Legalizing it will take out children away from the drug dealers. Keep in mind this is the only way it is a gateway drug. By going to these dealers they have a higher chance of being introduced to another drug, because the dealer probably doesn't just sell marijuana. That is how they go on to other drugs. The dealer is going to try and try to sell them cocaine, heroin, or anything else that they have. Without these dealers one can go to their neighbor and ask him/her if they are of age, to get them some. Sure it still isn't right, but it is hell of a lot better than going to a place where you can get other stuff bombarded upon you and can get hurt in. I much prefer the former. The government could tax marijuana, making money on it that can be used to combat cocaine dealers, heroin dealers, etc.. They can regulate it to the best of their ability. But what we can be sure of is that the marijuana won't be laced. Siren said that big corporations would lace it, add crap to it, etc.. Were that to occur, most people won't smoke it. Most smoke it now because they know that there isn't other **** in there. They know they aren't going to find additives. And once they find out a corporation is adding that crap, some will stop smoking and some won't. But everyone certainly isn't going to be smoking something that can now get you addicted, or cause much worse problems to your health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Webb Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']You know what, I'm going to make the world come to a crashing halt and agree with what Siren said[/color][/quote] ... :eek: ... *cough* Moving on... Let me just get away from the long-term physical effects of Marie-Janelle that everyone's been talking about for a while, and get back into the short-term effects. So you've got distorted perception, decreased short-term memory, altered motor skills, and an increased heart rate. Now, for some people, (like Zeta, apparently) this doesn't inhibit driving ability or school performance. However, let's keep in mind that some other people who get high only do so in private places such as home, or the bathroom in high school. There are many people who just aren't cut out to do [i]anything[/i] while high. There are people who can drink and drive without accident, but that doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to. You, Zeta, might be an exception. Drinking is legal recreationally, but that doesn't mean you can drink anywhere/time you want. You're not allowed to drink in public, be drunk in public, drive in public, or even have an open bottle of alcohol in your car (even if you're not the one drinking it). Is getting stoned less effective to your motor skills than getting drunk? That's debatable, and I'm not even going to get into that. It's beside the point. Let's look at Amsterdam, where [insert colorful marijuana euphemism here] is legal. You're not allowed to get stoned in public. Like drinking, you have to do so either at a bar/pub, or within the privacy of your own home (or some other private venue). It [i]does[/i] affect your judgement while in use, and it would be madness to allow some people to operate heavy machinery while on the mary-joo-wanna. I don't support the recreational use of marijuana. I'm for medicinal uses, but that's about it. I honestly don't see a reason people should be allowed to smoke hempweed freely in public, but then I'm not a big fan of cigarettes or hard liquor, either. However, if we're talking about recreational 'whenever minutes' here, then I think public stoned-ness should be against the law in the same way public drunkeness is. Get high if you want to, but I don't want to have to deal with you when I'm walking to the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiHorsewoman Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 [QUOTE=Lore][color=#ff6600]But it's been said again and again in this thread that other things also hurt you. I mean, I can't think of one single redeeming aspect of potato chips. [size=1]I support college radio, Sara[/size][/color][/QUOTE] [color=darkviolet]Potato chips make great dog treats if you run out of actual dog treats. Plus they're easier to make than french fries. There, two redeeming qualities of potato chips. Ok, yeah, I know that most of us are used to speaking with other rational people, but Zeta here is starting to remind me of my mother-in-law. Not a redeeming quality. Maybe we should just let Zeta smoke his maria juanita and edit him/herself from the gene pool...especially since it does a great job at making you steril and screwing up your eggs. Yes, just two more great benefits of smoking bad smelling plants. I want chicken, I want liver, I want seafood, please deliver- Chibi HOrsewoman. ps, which college station? 90.5 is the one in Rochester, but you're not from where I'm from[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='Zeta']Why put chips into your body? Coffee? Milky Way?s? Snickers? Nothing is positive about those. You can even become addicted to caffeine, which as you know is completely legal and present in coffee as well as many soda's. You can't become addicted to marijuana.[/quote] Those are all food. They have this thing about them that keeps you alive. [quote name='Zeta']The government could tax marijuana, making money on it that can be used to combat cocaine dealers, heroin dealers, etc.. They can regulate it to the best of their ability. But what we can be sure of is that the marijuana won't be laced. [/quote] Let's tax one thing that hurts you to fight another. That is simply retarded. We have all seen "the best of their ability". Haven't you seen the adds for medications linked to death? They were studied for years and determined comepletely safe. And then people died. Let's make some thing that hurts you legal so that people won't try to make it hurt you more? It still hurts you no matter what. If you buy it and it's laced, it's your own damn fault for buying a harmful drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Ali Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='Morpheus']Those are all food. They have this thing about them that keeps you alive.[/quote] [font=trebuchet ms]Okay, it's starting to be pretty obvious that you're not reading everything that's being said, in order to support your views you must do so. If you would have read, you would have saw that he was merely comparing how similar junk-food is harmful, to how harmful weed is. Oh and to let you know, you don't need junk-food to survive.[/font] [quote name='Morpheus']Let's tax one thing that hurts you to fight another. That is simply retarded. We have all seen "the best of their ability". Haven't you seen the adds for medications linked to death? They were studied for years and determined comepletely safe. And then people died. Let's make some thing that hurts you legal so that people won't try to make it hurt you more? It still hurts you no matter what. If you buy it and it's laced, it's your own damn fault for buying a harmful drug.[/quote] [font=trebuchet ms]Well if that's the case, the same should be said about alcohol and cigarettes. The point [i]is[/i], is that people know it isn't good for them, but they continue to do it anyway. Why? [b]Because we like it.[/b] The same can be said for junk-food too, for example, you know that eating too much taffy can give you cavities, yet, because you like it, you keep eating anyway. It's just that simple. BTW, calm down, it's just a fun little debate. :p [/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 *worships the ground that M.Ali walks on* Finally I see that someone is reading my posts, lol. Couldn't have said it better myself Ali. CHW Lovely response as to what chips can give back. But utimately not answering the question. How do they give back to your own health. You answer is complete nonsense in the sense that the question was asked, c'mon now. And please do tell me how I am not rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='M.Ali']Well if that's the case, the same should be said about alcohol and cigarettes. [/quote] On that particular point, I agree with you 100%. I'm all for suing the *** off of RJ Renolds, Miller, and every other company. We don't need to make them illegal, though (another prohibition would be disastrous). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [QUOTE=M.Ali][font=trebuchet ms] The point [i]is[/i], is that people know it isn't good for them, but they continue to do it anyway. Why? [b]Because we like it.[/b] [/font][/QUOTE] [color=#334366]The only thing is, some people (quite a lot apparently) [i]don't[/i] know about very large chunks of data related to marijuana research (including the example I posted earlier on). If people know the risks and they still choose to take it, I'm not going to criticize them; it's their choice. My aim isn't so much like Morpheus; if you smoke, I really don't care. That's your choice. All I'm saying is that it's important to dispel the myth that marijuana isn't harmful or linked to several health problems/risks. Once that myth is broken, adults can make edjucated choices about their use of the substance (in the same way as junk food, cigarettes or alcohol). Also, Zeta...I noticed that you [i]totally[/i] misinterpreted one of my posts back there, lol. If I can be bothered (and right now I can't), I'll try to further clarify my post so that it's more understandable. You came away with vastly incorrect assumptions about what I was saying, and I don't think it'd be fair to leave that unanswered.[/color] [quote name='Syk3']No one here is saying that marijuana is a harmless drug. No one is saying that there are no problems associated with it. [/quote] [color=#334366]Well, no, that's not true really. Zeta directly said that no matter how much you smoke, it won't have any impact. lol The problem isn't that I'm trying to make it out to be worse than it is -- the problem is that some of you are making it out to be a lot more harmless than it really is. That's the key issue. As long as the facts are out there (and the quote in my earlier post is a great summary for a large body of research out there), then everyone can make decisions based on that. But as soon as that research starts being rejected (especially by groups who are overzealously interested in marijuana-legalization), well...we start getting into nutty territory. And that's where I drop the debate, lol. But yeah, as I said, if everyone is working off the same research data (and many are working off wonky, emotive data), then we can start making real choices about the drug (ie: legalization or just personal use itself). I am not really interested in debating legalization though. I'm just trying to underscore the evidence, to ensure that any debate being held is done so with at least some basic, neutral information.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxie Faye Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [color=#9933ff]Dare I jump in the melee of vicious sharks known as Syk3, Zeta, James, Siren, and Morpheus? Sure. Why not. Personal opinions: If MJ was to become legal, I believe the government should then have to run a shitload of PSAs (Public Service Announcements) to tell about the short and long term effects (from medical studies) of using the drug. I think if they did it that way, people would have the knowledge to choose whether or not to use MJ. A lot of the people I know usually have a one-sided perspective of the issue, and I think the facts would be nice. I also agree with the person (I think it was Manic) who said basically said that "you can do it on your own home, but I don't want to see someone high when I go to the store, just as I don't want to see someone drunk when I go to the store." (In different words, obviously, but the same message.) I know some of you are saying that it's not harmful because it "[I]only[/i]" causes mental problems in those where the genetic predisposition is already present. But isn't that still harmful to you? I think that's something important to note, even if it is a minor footnote. Wouldn't you want to know that if you have a family history of lung problems, cigarettes (MJ will do it too) will make it worse? If you've got liver problems to begin with, wouldn't you want to know that excessive drinking will make it worse? To completely disregard that fact is called "tilting the facts in favor of your position." I know you're going to say "BUT BRINGING IT UP IS IN FAVOR OF YOUR BUTTHEAD POINT OF 'I HATE MJ!!!' " but the truth is it's not (and no, I don't hate it - MJ for medical use is perfectly acceptable, as well as using it recreationally, as long as you know how use it and its long term effects on your body). All it is, is FACT. EFF AY CEE TEE. Facts are good. Ignoring them is bad. =) Wow. I feel like I'm in the middle of a board office meeting discussing something incredibly solemn. Well, yeah, this is an important subject, but I think I'll end this mediocre post with the strangest/funniest thing someone has said about MJ in a while (from my school): "Dude, if the government legalized marijuana, they'd make a ton of money and single handedly save our economy. Imagine our embassador to the UN walking in high on MJ, and holding a meeting on it" But he also said that "...or we could just make crystal meth with our mad chemistry skills." ...So you should just take his comments as crazy and lighthearted. : )[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasil Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Just a few quick points. [QUOTE=Zeta]Siren tried to attack me and claim my memory, learning, and judgment, etc.has suffered from my long time use. I refuted his claims right off the bat. My grades have stayed constant. My health has not deteriorated. My memory is as strong as it was before I started smoking. Everything he tried to nail me with has not happened. And will not happen. He then tries to go "it is only high school, so it is not hard." If he wants to say that fine. If he thinks weed will only cause those things in college that is fine. But the fact of the matter is, is that weed won't choose if it wants you to have trouble learning, having problems with your memory, etc.just because you are in college and is harder. If it has affected my learning, memory, etc.it would be seen now, and clearly it isn't. Loss of memory and impaired learning are not bad on a grand scale at all as you are led to believe. As above I was able to tell you exactly what I did over a year ago, I was even high for most of that night. If anything it should be when I am high that I don't remember things, but I do remember. My grades are as strong as ever. As stated above, marijuana isn't going to choose to start causing problems with learning in college just because it is harder. You would start seeing it take place now, and it isn't happening. My dealer down here in Georgia has been smoking for longer than I have, his first two years of high school he was a 4.0 GPA, and now he is a 3.8/3.9. Oh my, marijuana has affected his learning skills to a great degree. The fact of the matter is Siren; you can rationalize your argument by saying high school is easy all you want. High school is not easy if you challenge yourself, which is what myself, my dealer, and many other pot smokers do. We don't take the Basic English, Math's, and all that. We take the AP Physics, AP Composition, AP US History. Naturally they aren't as hard as college, but they sure as hell aren't easy. Rationalize it all you want. The problems with memory and learning would be showing up now, as well as in college.[/quote]I'm rationalizing? Amusing, to say the least. Your friend?s GPA did drop within four years, by the way. During his first two years, he had a 4.0. Now you say he?s got a 3.8/3.9 (and the inclusion of the slash there leads me to believe it?s not all that close to a 3.9, anyway). He?s been smoking for longer than you have. I hardly think it?s just pure coincidence that his grades have declined (minimize it as much as you will?that is a clear, undeniable decline within the years he?s smoked pot) in the same years he?s been smoking marijuana. [quote] My learning has not suffered. I am still a high honor roll student, with at least a 3.7 GPA every quarter.[/quote]?At least?? That sounds like language used to hide GPA fluctuation occurring within the years of heavy marijuana consumption. By the way, call it rationalizing if you must, but it's not hard at all to nab a 3.7 GPA, even in AP courses. You read the material. You do the work. That's it. There are no tricks. It's all straightforward. You don't need to be gifted at all to do well in high school, regardless of the course. And do you honestly believe that you?re doing the best you can in high school? [QUOTE]He tried to twist around my posts by saying I said I was smoking pot for different reasons and two points in the thread. All one would have to do is just put two and two together, and would still get the same answer. I said earlier that I smoke to chill. I then said I smoked because it was pure. Now, would I smoke something that is not pure? That is laced with someone along the lines of PCP? No. Therefore I would not be smoking to chill either. But, I do smoke because weed is as pure as one can get. I can then smoke it to chill. What was so hard to understand about that? He is trying to find ways to make me look inconsistent, so everyone else will not even bother reading what I say.[/QUOTE]Did you ever consider that maybe people aren't too keen on reading what you have to say because you're not exactly acting responsibly by getting high whenever you can, or...what seems to be either going to school high, or getting high during the school day? That's grounds for Suspension at least, and probably looking at Expulsion in some cases (not to mention required Rehab). You want to talk lack of common sense? You?ve said you go to school high. You?ve said you take exams while high. Yes, I?m sure that people aren?t too eager to read your posts simply because of what I?m saying. :rolleyes: [quote]No one clicks on my websites as far as I am aware. If I can click on a website that is searching for the truths in what the government has to say about marijuana, I am entering just as biased as a site of one going to marijuana.com. If Siren truly did click and look around the site, he would realize that marijuana.com covers both sides of the argument. You have to visit the forums and read all the articles on the site. It isn't just a pro-marijuana site. They do have the other side as well. You just have to look around. If Siren did click the link, he didn't look around enough.[/quote]Zeta, I find it highly amusing that you still don?t believe I browsed those sites, simply because I?m not suddenly criticizing the government, praising marijuana, and spreading some propaganda rhetoric about marijuana being useful in opening up minds and getting creative juices flowing (And let?s face it. That?s exactly why you don?t want to believe me?because I haven?t ?converted.?). Let?s not forget some of the basic, common sense of ?don?t abuse drugs.? I hadn?t realized that DARE and anti-drug services weren?t getting that message across. Oh, yes, the so-called ?argument debunkers? on the one site there that labeled some anti-drug arguments as ?empty logic? are oh-so invaluable. But it?s such a crime that I visited the sites you love and I?m not coming out a pothead, eh? [quote]Morpheous said in the thread Falsely Accused that I posted saying that marijuana was harmless. Not true. I never said such a thing. I have repeated over and over, that I know it isn't harmless. But what I have said is that it is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. there is a difference between that and saying it is harmless. Siren also said this, whether he wants to believe it or not. It is right here Siren:[/quote]Zeta, you did say the following: [quote]Please do tell me how I do have those characteristis. You do not know me. You do not know anything about me. My learning has not suffered. I am still a high honor roll student, with at least a 3.7 GPA every quarter. I am still able to think clearly, as established with my good school grades. If I couldn't think, I would not be getting good grades. My memory is as strong as ever. I remember things from before I started smoking. I remember things from times that I was smoking. I remember what I did Christmas Break of '03. I know what I did in January through March of last year when it was a smoke fest for me. Every day I smoked, and I can recall everything that we did. With all my times driving stoned, I have not once gotten into an accident. I have not once been pulled over. The only time I have been in an accident is when I wasn't stoned, hell it was before I even started smoking. So please do tell me how I show these characteristics.[/quote]You?d like to tell me that I?ve been putting words in your mouth, when the above paragraph is quoted directly from a previous post of yours? You?re implying that marijuana has not damaged your functions at all. Your above paragraph says ?I function perfectly while high.? I?m putting words in your mouth?what rubbish. In fact?what do the following paragraphs say? What are they implying? [quote] James, Siren, and others have been advocating that it causes mental illness. Again, I know that it can cause a mental illness that is all ready present in someone to progress, or it runs in his or her family to have a higher chance of actually contracting it. Which I have said throughout. But what I have yet to see is clear and concise testing that says a mental disorder can come straight from marijuana. The tests that have been provided do not tell you if it runs in the person?s family or that the person all ready has it. When I see the full tests, saying specifically that those tested have no history of the illness and don't have it at the present time, I will gladly rescind my statements. Not as blunt as Morpheous. But you still said that I am saying there is nothing that is harmful about marijuana. Siren keeps on bring up the short-term effects, etc. As seen here: Judging by that and other posts of that nature, I don't think Siren actually knows what in the short term itself means. In the short term means when you are actually stoned, just as Syk3 said. The last part of that post does make sense. But again, it hasn't happened to me as he claimed it has. I have not displayed any of those characteristics. I can remember back as far as I have always been able to. I can remember exactly what I was doing Christmas Break 2003, and January through April of 2004. Those are times in which I shouldn't be able to remember things based on what Siren is saying, because I was stoned practically every day. I shouldn't be remembering that the first day of Christmas Break I spent 3 hours after school bowling and going out to dinner with my friends Dave and Eric. That I had take Eric to his house before we even got to the bowling alley so he could get some money. That after dinner we were going to go see Return of the King but didn't because Eric's dad called and said he had to come home. That he said at his house that he had a fun time and that we should do it again. That after dropping Dave off at his house, I can back and found Darryl, Dan, Justin, Ross, Brad, Raj, and Ben in the garage. And that Bob and Rod stopped by and we all smoked a 1-2 bowls. And afterwards how we all took turns playing Battlefield 1942, and watched Saving Private Ryan. I still remember that Darryl slept o n the floor of my room parallel to my dresser with his head under the bed, how Ben and myself slept on top of the bed, with Raj between us. How Brad, Dan, and Justin slept in Brad's room with Brad o n the floor in front of his bed and Justin and Dan in the bed. I shouldn't remember that but I do. I remember everything else we did as well. And a very important thing that comes into play here, is that I have been on both sides of the bandwagon. As I said above I used to be just like Siren, Morpheous, and anyone else that believes as they do. But now I am not. If the government was 100% right, I would still be on that side of the bandwagon. But I am not. I am not on that side because through my first-hand experience, which Siren and others do not have, I found out the truth about many things. I am not saying the government was 100% wrong, I am saying they aren't 100% right. Lapse in judgment are not on the scale that they say. When you are high, you have complete control of yourself. You can walk, drive if you desire, carry on conversations with people that are not high. Siren and others do not know this because they haven't tried it. So the cannot speak as if they know what they are talking about on this subject. They can regurgitate what they have read from works from the government or other agency that is out to prove they are right, but they don't know what it is actually like, and that it is far different than what the believe.[/quote]My interpretive skills apparently aren?t as sharp as our pot-head friends here, but the message I?m getting from those paragraphs is MJ?s negative effects are negligible at most, which effectively translates into ?pot has no ill effects at all.? Read between the lines in your own post, Zeta. [quote]Legalize marijuana? Hell, everyone here knows I am all for it. I wish it to be legalized because it is illegal for many of the wrong reasons, if not wrong reason, then reasons that are blown up and distorted. Marijuana is just as available, probably more so than alcohol because you will need someone with an ID to buy alcohol, and just as widely used while driving. But you don't hear about marijuana accidents, you hear about drunk driving accidents. Again, Siren tried to rationalize his comments by saying which is more interesting. The marijuana would be more interesting wouldn't you think? Drunk driving accidents happen all the time, there is no surprise. You don't hear about marijuana accidents. You would think you would hear about them just as much because it can strengthen the government?s position on it is a drug that is completely bad for you. But you don't hear about them. Even if they decide on the basis of what he has said, that drunken accidents are more interesting, you would still hear about them here and there. And I for one have not heard about any. Legalizing it will take out children away from the drug dealers. Keep in mind this is the only way it is a gateway drug. By going to these dealers they have a higher chance of being introduced to another drug, because the dealer probably doesn't just sell marijuana. That is how they go on to other drugs. The dealer is going to try and try to sell them cocaine, heroin, or anything else that they have. Without these dealers one can go to their neighbor and ask him/her if they are of age, to get them some. Sure it still isn't right, but it is hell of a lot better than going to a place where you can get other stuff bombarded upon you and can get hurt in. I much prefer the former. The government could tax marijuana, making money on it that can be used to combat cocaine dealers, heroin dealers, etc.. They can regulate it to the best of their ability. But what we can be sure of is that the marijuana won't be laced. Siren said that big corporations would lace it, add crap to it, etc.. Were that to occur, most people won't smoke it. Most smoke it now because they know that there isn't other **** in there. They know they aren't going to find additives. And once they find out a corporation is adding that crap, some will stop smoking and some won't. But everyone certainly isn't going to be smoking something that can now get you addicted, or cause much worse problems to your health[/QUOTE]Firstly, Zeta, just because you don?t hear about something, does that mean it doesn?t happen? And further, just because something doesn?t happen to you, does that mean it doesn?t happen all around? Stop being so naïve. Now, regarding this Legalization?if pot is Legalized, there are two results relating directly to the content of pot itself. One, it?s cleaned up and quite possibly watered down. That nasty Angeldust and so forth would be removed, because corporations would get emasculated if they were still including those types of toxins and carcinogens. If there is a clearly defined trend when big business gets hold of a product, that trend is watering a product down. We?ve seen this in the tobacco industry; we?ve seen it in the alcohol industry. We?ve even seen it in food services. It?s likely that in order to move more merchandise, companies would end up weakening the potency of the product, so people would end up purchasing more. This isn?t so unbelievable. It?s being done right now in other consumables. Two, big business is just that: big business. The focus of big business is to move the product, to make money, and it seems plausible that, like tobacco, there may be addictive substances mixed in to the ?commercialized? marijuana. When you want people to buy your product, when advertising isn?t quite going to cut it, you?re going to need to turn to something a bit more chemical, something a bit more closely related to manufacturing. That?s where addiction comes in. [quote] But everyone certainly isn't going to be smoking something that can now get you addicted, or cause much worse problems to your health[/quote]Quick aside: think of how many people are still addicted to cigarettes, Zeta. ?Everyone certainly isn?t? is a load of bull, because with something as simple as cigarettes, people find it very, very, very difficult to quit, even when they know it?s bad for them?they?re addicted. Back to the post. What?s to say that both of these results won?t be actualized? Then, if these results are actualized, and people turn away from commercialized pot, what?s going to happen? I think it?s trite and naïve to believe with Legalization and government control that the ?black market? will disappear entirely. If people want to get high, and they?re not pleased with the big business form(s), why aren?t they going to approach someone in North Camden? If they?re so set on getting high, I don?t see why they wouldn?t, because the black market will still be there. And here, you?re going to have that ever-present lacing going on, because just because it?s legalized doesn?t mean it?s going to be clean throughout the country. And it's not as if Legalization has cut down on black market goods in other consumables, anyway. Clearly, Legalization doesn?t seem like it?s going to solve anything. You?re still going to have black markets. You?re still going to have buyers going to ?underground? dealers and purchasing pot that isn?t safe at all, and this seems like it?s the main argument for Legalization. Now, I?d like to further hit on the Legalization points with a few of Syk?s earlier bits. [quote]Honestly, what is so dreadfully wrong with being allowed to pocess a small amount for intent of personal consumption within your own home? If people want to do it, they should have that choice instead of being told. I have some quotes in the bottom of my post which support my opinion.[/quote]And what is so dreadfully wrong about possessing a small amount for intent of personal consumption within your own home (which is what people do now anyway, with MJ illegal)? Why are MJ enthusiasts fighting so heavily for the legalization of MJ, when it's very clear they're able to smoke it in their own homes anyway right now? [quote]What's stopping them from doing it right now? Except that at the moment, the 15 year olds are in no need of a middle man that has ID. You seem like you would probably be a little surprised at how accessable it already is without being legal, since most of your points are already bypassed.[/quote]Then why the need to legalize it? [quote]I don't see what's so bad about personal use with reprocussions for its abuse. But.. maybe that's just me. lol[/quote]That's the situation right now, so, again, why legalize it? Why not keep it illegal? There is no reason at all to Legalize pot. People smoke it in their homes right now anyway, so that?s a non-issue. People are buying contaminated pot right now anyway (another non-issue), and because they?re smoking it with little to no regard for their own lives, it seems, and are not taking any discernible pro-active action to preserve their own health?why should the government try to help them? They?re not even trying to help themselves, only further making this a non-issue. It?s easily accessible now anyway, so again, another non-issue. These are all non-issues because nothing will change from the Legalization. The only real reason I see in people?s Pro-Legalization arguments are exclusively related to being able to smoke pot in public without fear of repercussions. But this is a load of horse****, too, because who in their right minds would want someone stumbling in public, blazed out of their skulls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiHorsewoman Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [color=darkviolet]*Scares the crap out of everyone by agreeing with Siren again* Yeah, that should make things jump a bit :D Zeta, you're telling me that my reply to sara/lore about the potato chips was complete nonsense,(actually, it was meant to be a lame attempt at humor) but you're the one sitting around on your computer trying to convince everyone that Marijuana is a good thing and should be legalized for recreational use. Don't you think you're full of nonsense yourself? Potato chips may not be one of the best food sources in the world, but they do help to keep you alive if you're all out of other more healthy foods like fruits and vegatables. Can you say the same thing about Marijuana? Didn't think so. What are the redeeming qualities of marijuana on a recreational level, not a medicinal one? Don't use calming becauses there's this fun thing called meditation, that can calm you too. Marijuana calming is a load of BS. And the reason I say you're irrational is because you're sitting on your computer admitting that you knowingly do something that hurts your body, yet you don't see a problem with it. You're in denial and don't know it. And either you or your buddy is trying to blame the person and not the drug (it's both) that the person was hurt. If that isn't irrational, well then maybe I should start lighting up.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syk3 Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 [QUOTE=James][color=#334366]The only thing is, some people (quite a lot apparently) [i]don't[/i] know about very large chunks of data related to marijuana research (including the example I posted earlier on). If people know the risks and they still choose to take it, I'm not going to criticize them; it's their choice. My aim isn't so much like Morpheus; if you smoke, I really don't care. That's your choice. All I'm saying is that it's important to dispel the myth that marijuana isn't harmful or linked to several health problems/risks. Once that myth is broken, adults can make edjucated choices about their use of the substance (in the same way as junk food, cigarettes or alcohol).[/quote][color=black]Okay, so now you're getting into what's going on in the minds of people who choose to smoke. That their choice is uneducated due to the fact that they don't know exactly what they are doing to their body. This is the kind of irresponsible use that we've both been talking about; if you're not going to be responsible with the herb, you won't even bother looking for the facts, and I can't condone any such usage.[/color] [color=black]It's going along a never-ending cycle, though. Back in the pre-1930s, people would have most likely believed that it's perfectly safe. And considering how much less potent it was back then, it very well may have been for the most part.. excluding the smoke. The Reefer Madness, as they call it, began after it had been prohibited, which made people think that it was going to kill you if you so much as smelled it. After a while, people began to use it again and believed that it really was harmless. These days, schools are teaching that while being made out to be completely harmless, marijuana is [i]extremely[/i] bad for you. Growing up in this generation of information, Zeta and I have been trying to convince others that what we learned as kids was misleading, and want others to be better prepared to understand the truth. As Zeta puts it, "I am not saying the government was 100% wrong, I am saying they aren't 100% right." On the same note, you're trying to convince others who think that it's harmless that there are some concequences, though not to the extent that the government does.[/color] [color=black]In a lot of ways, we're preaching similar things to a different set of people, and therefore, we stress different things. You are saying to those who think that it's harmless that there are consequences. We are saying to those who used to think it was harmless, but then changed their opinion because of what they learned in school, that it's safer than they think it is. We're not saying that you're wrong that pot isn't completely harmless, just as you're not saying that we're wrong that responsible and moderate use is alright (I think).[/color] [color=#000000]But if people aren't going to be responsible, they won't listen to us, or you. Perhaps more than wanting the herb to be legalized, at least at the moment, we would like schools to teach something that's much closer to the facts, in order to prepare people to make the right decision. Abuse of marijuana would then be much easier to discern "uninformed" from "irresponsible".[/color] [/color][color=#334366][quote name='Me][i][color=#000000']No one here is saying that marijuana is a harmless drug. No one is saying that there are no problems associated with it.[/i][/quote][/color][/color] [color=#334366][quote name='James][i']Well, no, that's not true really. Zeta directly said that no matter how much you smoke, it won't have any impact. lol[/i][/quote][/color] [color=#334366][quote name='Zeta]Morpheous said in the thread Falsely Accused that I posted saying that marijuana was harmless. Not true. I never said such a thing. I have repeated over and over, that I know it isn't harmless. But what I have said is that [i]it is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.[/i] there is a difference between that and saying it is harmless.[/QUOTE][quote=James']The problem isn't that I'm trying to make it out to be worse than it is -- the problem is that some of you are making it out to be a lot more harmless than it really is. That's the key issue.[/quote][color=black]Other than some specific issues, we agree with you for the most part that it is harmfull on various levels. But if you switch the words in your statement, it might as well be me talking.[/color] [color=black]"The problem isn't that I'm trying to make it out to be safer than it is -- the problem is that some of you are making it out to be a lot more harmfull than it really is. That's the key issue."[/color] [quote][i]But yeah, as I said, if everyone is working off the same research data (and many are working off wonky, emotive data), then we can start making real choices about the drug (ie: legalization or just personal use itself).[/i][/quote][color=black]That's very true. Even what seems like the most nuetral research could look, to either side, like biased data. You have to know where to draw the line to pick out honest, truthfull facts that will ultimately decide how we can make educated decisions on legalization. Like I quoted in my last post.. prohibition laws should be based on how dangerous a substance is.[/color][/color] [quote name='MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]If MJ was to become legal, I believe the government should then have to run a shitload of PSAs (Public Service Announcements) to tell about the short and long term effects (from medical studies) of using the drug. I think if they did it that way, people would have the knowledge to choose whether or not to use MJ. A lot of the people I know usually have a one-sided perspective of the issue, and I think the facts would be nice.[/color'][color=black][/quote][/color] [color=#9933ff][color=black]Ideally, I totally agree. But they would have to be completely unbiased facts.. not the "facts" the government has been saying about the herb for years.[/color] [font=Verdana][size=2][color=black][quote][i][/color][/size][/font]I know some of you are saying that it's not harmful because it "[i]only[/i]" causes mental problems in those where the genetic predisposition is already present. But isn't that still harmful to you? I think that's something important to note, even if it is a minor footnote. Wouldn't you want to know that if you have a family history of lung problems, cigarettes (MJ will do it too) will make it worse? If you've got liver problems to begin with, wouldn't you want to know that excessive drinking will make it worse? To completely disregard that fact is called "tilting the facts in favor of your position."[color=black][/i][/quote][/color] [color=black]I don't know where you're reading that someone is saying that mental effects are the only thing that's harmfull. In fact, I knew it was harmfull long before I knew that you could get mental disfunctions from long term use in cases where the disease was genetically predisposed. But yes, it is a dangerous possibility, while still rare. However, this is something that would also come from frequent use of the herb, and if you know about the other side effects at the same time, people might not even bother checking on family history. In other words, someone who would be the type of person to check on family history or genetics, would also be aware that there are further health concequences and therefore would use it moderately, which most likely wouldn't bring out this mental disease.[/color] [color=black][quote][i][/color]I know you're going to say "BUT BRINGING IT UP IS IN FAVOR OF YOUR BUTTHEAD POINT OF 'I HATE MJ!!!' " but the truth is it's not (and no, I don't hate it - MJ for medical use is perfectly acceptable, as well as using it recreationally, as long as you know how use it and its long term effects on your body). All it is, is FACT. EFF AY CEE TEE. Facts are good. Ignoring them is bad. =)[color=black][/i][/quote][/color] [color=#000000]Hey, we love facts. That's what made us choose our side in the first place.[/color][/color] [quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']Zeta, you're telling me that my reply to sara/lore about the potato chips was complete nonsense,(actually, it was meant to be a lame attempt at humor) but you're the one sitting around on your computer trying to convince everyone that Marijuana is a good thing and should be legalized for recreational use. Don't you think you're full of nonsense yourself?[color=black][/quote][/color][/color] [color=darkviolet][color=#000000]Wow, Zeta. Never thought about that one, did ya, buddy? ;) I mean, obviously if you're supporting marijuana, you must know that you're full of nonsense. Because, you know.. you disagree with your own beliefs.[/color] [color=black][quote][i][/color]Potato chips may not be one of the best food sources in the world, but they do help to keep you alive if you're all out of other more healthy foods like fruits and vegatables. Can you say the same thing about Marijuana? Didn't think so. What are the redeeming qualities of marijuana on a recreational level, not a medicinal one? Don't use calming becauses there's this fun thing called meditation, that can calm you too. Marijuana calming is a load of BS.[color=#000000][/i][/quote][/color] [color=#000000]The point is that potato chips are bad for you, but not horrible in moderation, just like pot. You can't live off marijuana just like you can't live off potato chips or other junk food.[/color] [color=#000000]The redeeming qualities of marijuana on a recreational level, while it's already been noted (I suggest you read the topic a little closer), is that it's fun if you're looking for a responsible way to get high. It makes you a lot more relaxed and relieves tensions, both mentally and physically. Just because meditation works to making you calm doesn't mean that weed [i]doesn't[/i], and in a lot of ways it's easier to accomplish. :p The herb improves both imagination and creativity, and allows you to look at a problem in a different light in order for your mind to move past it.[/color] [color=#000000]You know what.. you don't think marijuana (or other drugs for that matter) has (/have) any benefits, so just go ahead and throw out every single piece of music that you listen to, right now. If you're that convinced, please, I implore.[/color] [color=black][quote][i][/color]And the reason I say you're irrational is because you're sitting on your computer admitting that you knowingly do something that hurts your body, yet you don't see a problem with it. You're in denial and don't know it. And either you or your buddy is trying to blame the person and not the drug (it's both) that the person was hurt. If that isn't irrational, well then maybe I should start lighting up.[/color][color=black][/i][/QUOTE][/color] [color=black]We've gone through these points so much, that it's pointless to explain any further. Go back and read the topic again if you missed our standpoints.[/color] [color=black]I'm not going to respond to Siren's post, because that's between him and Zeta. That's all it really is; the topic has been lost in discussion.[/color] [color=black]Legalize nature. ;)[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasil Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [QUOTE=Syk3]That's very true. Even what seems like the most nuetral research could look, to either side, like biased data. You have to know where to draw the line to pick out honest, truthfull facts that will ultimately decide how we can make educated decisions on legalization. Like I quoted in my last post.. prohibition laws should be based on how dangerous a substance is. Ideally, I totally agree. But they would have to be completely unbiased facts.. not the "facts" the government has been saying about the herb for years.[/quote]Syk, you're missing one very important detail. Harvard University is neutral research. As I said before to Zeta, I scoured Harvard's page and there's one mention made of federal funding in some 13 pages of Finance background, and in about 20 pages of various other Harvard bios. Their funding primarily comes from private fundraising, most notably spearheaded during the late 90s, I believe. They're not getting funded by the government. You want to talk about neutral studies? They're about as neutral as you can get, and they're reporting results that are a lot more dangerous than you find reported on your support sites. [QUOTE]I'm not going to respond to Siren's post, because that's between him and Zeta. That's all it really is; the topic has been lost in discussion.[/QUOTE]At least touch upon the redundancy of the Pro-Legalization argument, on how Legalizing marijuana will do very little to actually solve any of the problems seen today, how very little will actually change if MJ is Legalized. The only real change we'd see with Legalization is people being able to walk around in public, stoned. That's it, and that's not going to be a benefit for society. I don't see how anyone could deny that, regardless of what "side" they're on. [quote]You know what.. you don't think marijuana (or other drugs for that matter) has (/have) any benefits, so just go ahead and throw out every single piece of music that you listen to, right now. If you're that convinced, please, I implore.[/quote]Oh, c'mon, lol. "Pink Floyd wrote great music while high. Therefore, marijuana is good"? We should see pot as a good thing simply because a few fantastic albums came out of its use during the 60s and 70s? Just like how we should view deafness as a blessing, just because Beethoven wrote some glorious music while he was deaf? Be sensible, Greg, be sensible. EDIT: As Zeta has been unable to understand the concept of an unreliable narrator in the past, I'm going to also take my leave here. With time (meaning, as Zeta graduates from high school and gets out of the small pond), he'll come to understand that pot consumption has very little place in the real world. And, it's interesting that the only two here arguing for marijuana are high schoolers, while the majority of those arguing against (on any level) MJ have long since graduated and have begun mapping out their lives. There are many more productive things one does with one's time, and many more concerns and responsibilities than one finds in high school. Zeta's (and Greg's) preoccupation with pot will disappear entirely once they start looking for a job (drug testing will see to that), and the pothead lifestyle (i.e., getting high everyday) will become a distant memory. Ultimately, anyway, this (high schooler pot) is just a phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Let me just say that I'm not really trying to convince anyone to stop smoking(at least not until I get my handy dandy over the internet stun gun :modrod: ). I'm taking the same point as James: You can't say it's safe or good for you. Other than that, it's obvious the Siren and I(and to a lesser extent CHW) are never going to convince Zeta to stop smoking, so this is where my story ends. I'll still chime in if I see a stupid comment, but for the most part I'm sick of telling Zeta what's what. Farewell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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