Your opinions on: Marijuana

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Morpheus'] Let me just say that I'm not really trying to convince anyone to stop smoking(at least not until I get my handy dandy over the internet stun gun :modrod: ). I'm taking the same point as James: You can't say it's safe or good for you. Other than that, it's obvious the Siren and I(and to a lesser extent CHW) are never going to convince Zeta to stop smoking, so this is where my story ends. I'll still chime in if I see a stupid comment, but for the most part I'm sick of telling Zeta what's what. Farewell.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]I'm with Morpeus and James. You can't convince someone that what they're doing is harmful until they realize it for themselves. Especially over the internet.

If I have a point to make I'll make it, but I'm just going to stay out of the whole mess Zeta's drug induced state is giving me a migrain.

Bye Bye[/color]

[Zeta]

Sorry it took so long. Kept getting the operation timed out thing when going back to previous pages.

[QUOTE]I'm rationalizing? Amusing, to say the least.
Your friend?s GPA did drop within four years, by the way. During his first two years, he had a 4.0. Now you say he?s got a 3.8/3.9 (and the inclusion of the slash there leads me to believe it?s not all that close to a 3.9, anyway). He?s been smoking for longer than you have. I hardly think it?s just pure coincidence that his grades have declined (minimize it as much as you will?that is a clear, undeniable decline within the years he?s smoked pot) in the same years he?s been smoking marijuana.[/QUOTE]

Throughout high school, your classes get harder, no? As he got farther into high school, he started taking AP Physics, AP Calc, AP US History, etc.. He got a job. I think it is fair that the amount of AP classes (all of after sophomore year since you cannot take them before junior year at this school) and the time spent on his job is enough to drop a GPA a neglible amount. But hey if you still want to say the pot harmed his grades, it obviously didn't screw with him to a degree that makes him stupid. His grades dropped the measly amount because he is overloaded with schoolwork and balancing his time between it and his job.

[QUOTE]?At least?? That sounds like language used to hide GPA fluctuation occurring within the years of heavy marijuana consumption.

By the way, call it rationalizing if you must, but it's not hard at all to nab a 3.7 GPA, even in AP courses. You read the material. You do the work. That's it. There are no tricks. It's all straightforward. You don't need to be gifted at all to do well in high school, regardless of the course.

And do you honestly believe that you?re doing the best you can in high school?[/QUOTE]

If by a fluctuating GPA you mean the lowest GPA I get is a 3.7 and the rest of the time my grades are above a 3.7, and then you are correct. Yes I know you read the material. But the fact of the matter is, is that the weed would be showing its effects on me right now as we speak. It doesn't matter if it is high school or college. It will be showing up now. And yes I am doing the best I can in high school. Throughout all my school years I have stayed constant. Every now and then I do bad on a test, homework assignment or two, which keeps me from my 4.0. But hey, I am completely happy with my GPA and the fact that me smoking hasn't affected it at all.

[QUOTE]Did you ever consider that maybe people aren't too keen on reading what you have to say because you're not exactly acting responsibly by getting high whenever you can, or...what seems to be either going to school high, or getting high during the school day? That's grounds for Suspension at least, and probably looking at Expulsion in some cases (not to mention required Rehab). You want to talk lack of common sense? You?ve said you go to school high. You?ve said you take exams while high. Yes, I?m sure that people aren?t too eager to read your posts simply because of what I?m saying.[/QUOTE]

*shrug* If the wish it that is their choice. But they are reading my posts, at least some of them are. But what you are trying to do is get them to not read my posts, by making me seem like an incoherent fool. The Star Wars topic has no bearing on this topic at all. No need to bring it in, lol.

[QUOTE]Zeta, I find it highly amusing that you still don?t believe I browsed those sites, simply because I?m not suddenly criticizing the government, praising marijuana, and spreading some propaganda rhetoric about marijuana being useful in opening up minds and getting creative juices flowing (And let?s face it. That?s exactly why you don?t want to believe me?because I haven?t ?converted.?). Let?s not forget some of the basic, common sense of ?don?t abuse drugs.? I hadn?t realized that DARE and anti-drug services weren?t getting that message across. Oh, yes, the so-called ?argument debunkers? on the one site there that labeled some anti-drug arguments as ?empty logic? are oh-so invaluable. But it?s such a crime that I visited the sites you love and I?m not coming out a pothead, eh?[/QUOTE]

I do not want to force you to convert. If you had truly and fully looked around the sites then great for you. You would see that a lot of what I say is backed up for much more evidence than I have put forth here. If you did look around carefully and not just skim over it for a few minutes that is all I can ask for. You didn't come out thinking like me, ok. But I will still try to defend my post. The post was also directed at everyone else, not entirely to just you.

[QUOTE]You?d like to tell me that I?ve been putting words in your mouth, when the above paragraph is quoted directly from a previous post of yours? You?re implying that marijuana has not damaged your functions at all. Your above paragraph says ?I function perfectly while high.? I?m putting words in your mouth?what rubbish.[/QUOTE]

I do, lol. You can't talk on this subject because you have not smoked. You do not know what it is like when being high. You have complete control of yourself. You are not like you are when drunk. That is the advantage of being high over being drunk, you have complete control. Sure I make have the occasional laughing fit if something is really funny, but I still have complete control over my ability to walk, carry on conversations, etc..

[QUOTE]My interpretive skills apparently aren?t as sharp as our pot-head friends here, but the message I?m getting from those paragraphs is MJ?s negative effects are negligible at most, which effectively translates into ?pot has no ill effects at all.? Read between the lines in your own post, Zeta.[/QUOTE]

You must go and re-read what you posted earlier. Those paragraphs are directly from your posts saying this:

[QUOTE]Yes, you've had first-hand experience with pot. Yes, you've smoked it extensively throughout your life. If there are negative side-effects (which according to Harvard University...there are negative side-effects), then surely you would be showing evidence of those side-effects, true? Side-effects like "In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning." For a long term user such as yourself, you would most certainly strongly display those characteristics, and...you do.[/QUOTE]

You claimed it has affected me. My aim in those paragraphs was to show you that it hasn't affected me, nothing more, nothing less. If you want to take it in the way that I am saying it is the same for all people go for it.

[QUOTE]Firstly, Zeta, just because you don?t hear about something, does that mean it doesn?t happen? And further, just because something doesn?t happen to you, does that mean it doesn?t happen all around? Stop being so naïve.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I am not the only driver Siren. If accidents are so widespread because of driving under the influence of marijuana, why don't we hear about them? Marijuana is widely available, and you can bet that just as many people drive stoned as drunk. But why it is always drunk drivers that get the attention? You would think accidents caused by marijuana would be just as wide-spread and talked about, if not more, so as to strengthen the government's position on marijuana, no?[/QUOTE]

I never said they don't happen, lol. I said you don't hear about them. Why? Because they don't happen on such a large scale as alcohol. Why? Because you can actually drive when you are high. You have much more control over yourself when high, and if you choose to drive you will drive much better than you would if you were drunk. With it's wide availability you would definitely be hearing about them just as much as drunk driving accidents.

[QUOTE]One, it?s cleaned up and quite possibly watered down. That nasty Angeldust and so forth would be removed, because corporations would get emasculated if they were still including those types of toxins and carcinogens. If there is a clearly defined trend when big business gets hold of a product, that trend is watering a product down. We?ve seen this in the tobacco industry; we?ve seen it in the alcohol industry. We?ve even seen it in food services. It?s likely that in order to move more merchandise, companies would end up weakening the potency of the product, so people would end up purchasing more. This isn?t so unbelievable. It?s being done right now in other consumables.

Two, big business is just that: big business. The focus of big business is to move the product, to make money, and it seems plausible that, like tobacco, there may be addictive substances mixed in to the ?commercialized? marijuana. When you want people to buy your product, when advertising isn?t quite going to cut it, you?re going to need to turn to something a bit more chemical, something a bit more closely related to manufacturing. That?s where addiction comes in.

Back to the post. What?s to say that both of these results won?t be actualized? Then, if these results are actualized, and people turn away from commercialized pot, what?s going to happen? I think it?s trite and naïve to believe with Legalization and government control that the ?black market? will disappear entirely.

If people want to get high, and they?re not pleased with the big business form(s), why aren?t they going to approach someone in North Camden? If they?re so set on getting high, I don?t see why they wouldn?t, because the black market will still be there. And here, you?re going to have that ever-present lacing going on, because just because it?s legalized doesn?t mean it?s going to be clean throughout the country.
[/QUOTE]

You are correct. With things being added to marijuana people would go to the black market all over again. But think of it from the business point of view. If they do add crap to a product that is all ready good, especially since it would be a drug that is now legalized and people will [i]want[/i] to buy it, imagine the huge loss of profits they would lose when smokers find all this other crap in it. Businesses want to make money. And adding things to a drug that has been illegal for years and is would now be legal wouldn't gain them profit at all.

CHW

[QUOTE]And the reason I say you're irrational is because you're sitting on your computer admitting that you knowingly do something that hurts your body, yet you don't see a problem with it. You're in denial and don't know it. And either you or your buddy is trying to blame the person and not the drug (it's both) that the person was hurt. If that isn't irrational, well then maybe I should start lighting up.[/QUOTE]

I knowingly eat chips, drink soda, drink coffee, and eat candy bars. All of which are not good for me. I don't see a problem with that either.

Bye Chibihorsewomen and Morpheous. *waves*

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Zeta]
I do, lol. You can't talk on this subject because you have not smoked. You do not know what it is like when being high. You have complete control of yourself. You are not like you are when drunk. That is the advantage of being high over being drunk, you have complete control. Sure I make have the occasional laughing fit if something is really funny, but I still have complete control over my ability to walk, carry on conversations, etc...

CHW



I knowingly eat chips, drink soda, drink coffee, and eat candy bars. All of which are not good for me. I don't see a problem with that either.
[/QUOTE]


[color=darkviolet]Eh, like I said if I had a point to make I'll make it.

Ok, so some of us who are replyingto this thread may not have smoked MJ, but some of us [i]have[/i] seen the effects that Marijuana has had on people close to us.

One of my friends had a misscarriage, my brother's friend was shot at. And my brother lost a few jobs.

You keep saying that bad things won't happen to you even if you keep doing drugs and maybe they won't. Maybe you'll keep on smoking into your 40's and get some cushy government job.

Or maybe you'll just lose your mind, or be shot to death by your dealer. Either way it's not anyone's concern but yours.

There is good and bad in everything in this world. There are health benefits to marijuana it can be used as a pain reliever. And there are also consequeces with marijuana. You can lose custody of your kids, you can lose your home, your job ect....

The reason you can have chips, candy bars and caffiene is because those don't rot your brain...they don't have serious effects on unborn babies when used in moderation. But hey, you already knew that because you're so smart.[/color]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE]Ok, so some of us who are replyingto this thread may not have smoked MJ, but some of us have seen the effects that Marijuana has had on people close to us.[/QUOTE]

Seeing the effects are different than actually doing it first hand. I wonder how many people who claim their problems are from marijuana had some underlying problem to begin with.

Show me the evience that it these things (disorders etc...) come from marijuana use alone, and I will admit I was wrong.


[QUOTE]There is good and bad in everything in this world. There are health benefits to marijuana it can be used as a pain reliever. And there are also consequeces with marijuana.[/QUOTE]

Which is what Syk3 and myself have been saying. It isn't 100% bad, but not 100% good. That means the same thing as what I have been saying throughout this topic, [i]it isn't as bad as it seems.[/i]

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Zeta']Seeing the effects are different than actually doing it first hand. I wonder how many people who claim their problems are from marijuana had some underlying problem to begin with. [/quote]
The underlying problems were why they started smoking, and the smoking caused loss on their part.

[Syk3]

Before I start, I'd like to take a moment to welcome Morpheus and ChibiHorseWoman back to the debate. ^_^ We missed you guys.

[QUOTE=Siren]Syk, you're missing one very important detail. Harvard University is neutral research. As I said before to Zeta, I scoured Harvard's page and there's one mention made of federal funding in some 13 pages of Finance background, and in about 20 pages of various other Harvard bios. Their funding primarily comes from private fundraising, most notably spearheaded during the late 90s, I believe. They're not getting funded by the government.

You want to talk about neutral studies? They're about as neutral as you can get, and they're reporting results that are a lot more dangerous than you find reported on your support sites.[/quote]Are you sure you read it? Perhaps you missed the point about how further research must be done on a number of levels to say for sure exactly what effects are caused by marijuana usage. It can be as neutral as you want it to be; the data they collected is only a thin bottom layer of experiments that in the future will conclusively prove what is fact and what is wishfull thinking. Even so, some of the "data" that they have collected is very misleading, but I'm planning on addressing that specifically in a future post.

[quote][i]At least touch upon the redundancy of the Pro-Legalization argument, on how Legalizing marijuana will do very little to actually solve any of the problems seen today, how very little will actually change if MJ is Legalized. The only real change we'd see with Legalization is people being able to walk around in public, stoned. That's it, and that's not going to be a benefit for society. I don't see how anyone could deny that, regardless of what "side" they're on.[/i][/quote]If that's the only thing that you believe will happen, then you are being rather naive. You think legalization, you think more stereotypical pot heads running around? Geeze, no wonder you don't support it. lol

I've already discussed legalization in past posts, so apparently you skipped over it. I think pot becoming legal would be a sort of mixed blessing. Obviously, like Heaven's Cloud said before, you don't weigh the benefits of something you legalize, you weigh the concequences. If the concenquences can be controlled, then I'm all for it. This means stricter laws for driving high, for unlawful distribution, etc. For the most part, these would be similar to alcohol restrictions in the sense that the laws would be doing their best to ensure responsible use. What makes you think you'll be seeing these pot heads in public if you aren't allowed to be drunk in public? Besides, a lot of the money that they are spending on anti-marijuana campaigns could be used to combat much more dangerous drugs and other substances.

Keep in mind that I support marijuana, not irresponsible marijuana [i]abuse[/i]. A lot of you seem to trip and fall without grasping this point.

[quote][i]Oh, c'mon, lol. "Pink Floyd wrote great music while high. Therefore, marijuana is good"? We should see pot as a good thing simply because a few fantastic albums came out of its use during the 60s and 70s? Just like how we should view deafness as a blessing, just because Beethoven wrote some glorious music while he was deaf? Be sensible, Greg, be sensible.[/i][/quote]The 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and even now.. a lot of great music that you listen to was created with the help of marijuana and other drugs. If you don't think that they have done anything for society, then throw it all away. This doesn't have anything to do with marijuana being such a wonderful herb, it's about the benefits, or "redeeming qualities", that it can have in bringing out creativity and imagination.

Some could argue that deafness is a blessing because it allows you to view the world in a completely different way. :p Just like marijuana.

[quote][i]EDIT: As Zeta has been unable to understand the concept of an unreliable narrator in the past, I'm going to also take my leave here. With time (meaning, as Zeta graduates from high school and gets out of the small pond), he'll come to understand that pot consumption has very little place in the real world. And, it's interesting that the only two here arguing for marijuana are high schoolers, while the majority of those arguing against (on any level) MJ have long since graduated and have begun mapping out their lives.[/i]

[i]There are many more productive things one does with one's time, and many more concerns and responsibilities than one finds in high school. Zeta's (and Greg's) preoccupation with pot will disappear entirely once they start looking for a job (drug testing will see to that), and the pothead lifestyle (i.e., getting high everyday) will become a distant memory.[/i][/quote]Okay, you want to talk about bias? How about just brushing aside any and all liable points brought out by people because of their age? O_o Ignorance at it's finest.

But I guess since you're off to college now and since high school is all busy work, we should be praising you because of your infinite knowledge, since you're obviously better than us. Or you could grow up and stop being so damn stubborn about debates, trying to convince others of completely irrelevent information in an attempt to say that our opinions are worthless. You could care less about this topic than just being absolutely unwilling to let someone else have the last word.

Sorry about that. I got away from myself a little there..

[quote][i]Ultimately, anyway, this (high schooler pot) is just a phase.[/i][/QUOTE]On the contrary, lol. The most crucial point for the effects of marijuana to be damaging would be adolescence, since you are still going through both physical and mental growth. Once you get out of college, though your mind is still going through it's natural learning process, that's actually the safest time to use the herb, health-wise, because you won't have to worry about getting off any of the wrong tracks in school.

People who started smoking at 16 and continue to smoke regularly/excessively will, very likely, act like they are 16 at age 36. This is exactly why an age restriction would be in place for the drug, probably at 21. But these specific learning effects are, for the most part, entirely temporary, in that they will go away if you quit smoking.

[quote name='Morpheus']I'm taking the same point as James: You can't say it's safe or good for you.[/quote]No, you're not taking the same point as James. James is using specific examples and data to back up his beliefs, while you are using the same general argument that you have been for the entire thread, something that's representative of what schools teach you to think about the herb.

While not without its concequences, marijuana is a good choice if you want to be responsible in getting high, something that is very misunderstood by those who have taken in what they have heard from the government all their lives without question.

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Ok, so some of us who are replyingto this thread may not have smoked MJ, but some of us [i]have[/i] seen the effects that Marijuana has had on people close to us.

One of my friends had a misscarriage, my brother's friend was shot at. And my brother lost a few jobs.[color=black][/quote][/color]
[color=#000000]Well, your friend was admittidly rather stupid for smoking to the extent to cause a misscarriage. The other two are both personal reasons that they, or you, may give not to start. If I haven't mentioned it before, things such as that are perfectly acceptable reasons not to get involved. But to use that soley to argue against marijuana in general is just rediculous, and something that I won't stand for.[/color]

[color=black][quote][i][/color]You keep saying that bad things won't happen to you even if you keep doing drugs and maybe they won't. Maybe you'll keep on smoking into your 40's and get some cushy government job. [/i]

[i]Or maybe you'll just lose your mind, or be shot to death by your dealer. Either way it's not anyone's concern but yours.[color=black][/i][/quote][/color]
[color=#000000]If you think that it should be up to someone to decide for themselves whether they want to get involved, then how is that different from supporting legalizing the herb?[/color]

[color=black][quote][i][/color]There is good and bad in everything in this world. There are health benefits to marijuana it can be used as a pain reliever. And there are also consequeces with marijuana. You can lose custody of your kids, you can lose your home, your job ect....[color=black][/i][/quote][/color]
[color=#000000]Oh, my mistake. I thought you didn't want it legalized. But based on these consequences, clearly that would be the logical answer.[/color]

[color=black][quote][/color][i]The reason you can have chips, candy bars and caffiene is because those don't rot your brain...they don't have serious effects on unborn babies when used in moderation. But hey, you already knew that because you're so smart.[/i][/color][color=#000000][/quote][/color]
When used in moderation.. no, there aren't serious effects on unborn babies. O.o And chips, candy bars, and caffiene all rot your teeth, as well as your health. How can you support that and suddenly jump all over marijuana for these similar effects?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Syk3]
[/color]
[color=#000000]Well, your friend was admittidly rather stupid for smoking to the extent to cause a misscarriage. The other two are both personal reasons that they, or you, may give not to start. If I haven't mentioned it before, things such as that are perfectly acceptable reasons not to get involved. But to use that soley to argue against marijuana in general is just rediculous, and something that I won't stand for.[/color][/quote]

[color=darkviolet] She also didn't know she was pregnant until the second month and was -as you are as well-addicted. And you're an idiot for starting as well.

HOw is job loss, from having to submit to drug tests, an underlying problem? And getting shot...well maybe if the idiot hadn't been trying to go and buy drugs in the first place he wouldn't have gotten shot at. Neither of them would have had these problems if it wasn't for getting involved with doing drugs in the first place[/color]

[QUOTE=Syk3] [color=black][/color]
[color=#000000]If you think that it should be up to someone to decide for themselves whether they want to get involved, then how is that different from supporting legalizing the herb?[/color][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]You miss read what I was saying. I meant that since I have no emotional ties to you, I reallly don't give a damn what you do. I wasn't saying that I support legalizing marijuana for [b][i]RECREATIONAL PURPOSES[/I][/B]. I just was saying I don't care what you do with your life.[/color]

[QUOTE=Syk3] [color=black][/color]
[color=#000000]Oh, my mistake. I thought you didn't want it legalized. But based on these consequences, clearly that would be the logical answer.[/color][/quote]

[color=darkviolet] You know what? Stop blaming [i]other[/i] people for not reading your posts and start to read [i]other[/i] people's posts. If it's legalized for [i][b]purely[/i][/i] medical reasons it's ok. What do I care if my elderly neighbor is helping her gluacoma with some stinky plant?

But you're talking about legalization for recreational purposes so you can relieve 'stress'. I'm against that.[/color]

[QUOTE=Syk3] [color=black][/color]
When used in moderation.. no, there aren't serious effects on unborn babies. O.o And chips, candy bars, and caffiene all rot your teeth, as well as your health. How can you support that and suddenly jump all over marijuana for these similar effects[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Because,amazingly enough, when you use a toothbrush and toothpaste you can brush your teeth and get rid of plaque. Isn't that amazing?! You can also do this crazy thing called excersize. It works really really good.

I can jump all over marijuana as you keep whining about because marijuana does have serious effects on unborn babies even when done in moderation. Those are the facts. Unbiased nuetural facts.[/color]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE] She also didn't know she was pregnant until the second month and was -as you are as well-addicted. And you're an idiot for starting as well.[/QUOTE]

You can't become addicted to marijuana. See the other marijuana thread from awhile back for further information on this subject. Syk3 has been smoking for less than I have. I have been smoking for years. I am not addicted. Why is that? I haven't smoked for months now due to the fact that I have no money and the money that I do get goes to making my computer better. He is not addicted, trust me, lol. Neither am I. Neither is the person who has been smoking for 20+ years.

[QUOTE]HOw is job loss, from having to submit to drug tests, an underlying problem? And getting shot...well maybe if the idiot hadn't been trying to go and buy drugs in the first place he wouldn't have gotten shot at. Neither of them would have had these problems if it wasn't for getting involved with doing drugs in the first place[/QUOTE]

He wouldn't have to go to the black market to get some if it were legalized.

[QUOTE]But you're talking about legalization for recreational purposes so you can relieve 'stress'. I'm against that.[/QUOTE]

Are you against someone doing it for those reasons of relieving stress now? ( p.s. that isn't the only reason why one smokes) If you are not against those reasons now, then what will it matter if it is legalized and they do it for the same reasons?

[QUOTE]
Because,amazingly enough, when you use a toothbrush and toothpaste you can brush your teeth and get rid of plaque. Isn't that amazing?! You can also do this crazy thing called excersize. It works really really good.[/QUOTE]

Amazingly enough if you exercise and have a healthy diet you can keep yourself healthy even if you smoke weed. Works really good as well.

[QUOTE]I can jump all over marijuana as you keep whining about because marijuana does have serious effects on unborn babies even when done in moderation. Those are the facts. Unbiased nuetural facts.[/QUOTE]

My apologies as to how this will sound. You have to be one huge idiot to smoke while pregnant. If drinking is bad for you and you are pregnant, it is common sense that doing anything of the sort, whether it be smoking cigarettes or marijuana will also cause problems. She has no one to blame but herself.

*waves* Bye Siren

[Syk3]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet'] She also didn't know she was pregnant until the second month and was -as you are as well-addicted. And you're an idiot for starting as well.[color=black][/quote][/color][/color]
[color=darkviolet][color=#000000]How could you not know you were pregnant until the second month? o__o;; She should have picked up on that [i]much [/i]earlier.[/color][/color]

Secondly, for the nth time, marijuana is not addictive. It isn't a substance that your body will become physically dependant upon. There's a certain [i]psychological[/i] addiction, but it's all habit-forming, which can happen with literally anything. Because of this.. it's pointless to use that argument.

I have [i]never [/i]talked about my own experience with marijuana at all in any one of these threads. Why would you think that I'm "addicted"? Because I'm supporting it? Do you think that everyone who supports the herb is only doing so because they have some strange facination and are trying to justify their habit? O_o Tell me, because I'd like to know. Zeta here has been clean for six months.
[color=darkviolet]
[color=black][quote][i][/color]HOw is job loss, from having to submit to drug tests, an underlying problem? And getting shot...well maybe if the idiot hadn't been trying to go and buy drugs in the first place he wouldn't have gotten shot at. Neither of them would have had these problems if it wasn't for getting involved with doing drugs in the first place[/color][color=black][/i][/quote][/color]
[color=black]How is job loss a problem? How is getting shot by purchasing marijuana on the black market a problem? Well maybe if it wasn't for the drug being illegal, there wouldn't be anything to stand in the way of there being an issue.[/color]


[color=darkviolet][color=black][quote][i][/color]You miss read what I was saying. I meant that since I have no emotional ties to you, I reallly don't give a damn what you do. I wasn't saying that I support legalizing marijuana for [b][i]RECREATIONAL PURPOSES[/i][/b]. I just was saying I don't care what you do with your life.[/color][color=black][/i][/quote][/color]
[color=black]If you don't care what we do with our lives, though, how would that be different if the herb was legal? So suddenly it becomes legal, and you care what we do with our lives. It won't affect you, after all. No one is saying that you have to do it, but if it was legal, people would have the choice.[/color]

[color=darkviolet][color=black][quote][/color][i]You know what? Stop blaming other people for not reading your posts and start to read other people's posts. If it's legalized for [b]purely medical reasons it's ok. What do I care if my elderly neighbor is helping her gluacoma with some stinky plant? [/i]

[i]But you're talking about legalization for recreational purposes so you can relieve 'stress'. I'm against that.[/i][/color][color=black][/quote][/color]
[color=black]But the concequences you were listing for using pot in the first place all were directly related to whether or not the herb was legalized. lol And you said you don't care if, and only if, your neighbor is using it medically, but earlier you also said you don't care what we do with our lives. You're contradicting yourself, ChibiHorseWoman. So which is it? Regardless of legality, you do care or you don't care if other people use it recreationally?[/color]

[color=darkviolet][color=black][QUOTE][i][/color]Because,amazingly enough, when you use a toothbrush and toothpaste you can brush your teeth and get rid of plaque. Isn't that amazing?! You can also do this crazy thing called excersize. It works really really good.[color=black][/i][/quote][/color][/color]
[color=darkviolet][color=#000000]Like Zeta said, excersizing and maintaining a healthy diet are extremely effective when using marijuana. I still can't understand why you are trying to defend junk food and not pot for the same reason. Because you eat junk food a lot and hate the thought of marijuana? [i]That[/i] is bias.[/color]

[color=black][quote][i][/color]I can jump all over marijuana as you keep whining about because marijuana does have serious effects on unborn babies even when done in moderation. Those are the facts. Unbiased nuetural facts.[/quote][/color][/i]
[color=black]Don't get me wrong -- you're stupid if you smoke while pregnant. But in moderation, your baby isn't going to come out with one eye and no nose. Where in the hell are you getting these "facts"? XD[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Before anyone says anything, I know I was wrong about one thing I said...I asked my brother.
[/color]

[QUOTE=Syk3][/color][/color]
[color=darkviolet][color=#000000]How could you not know you were pregnant until the second month? o__o;; She should have picked up on that [i]much [/i]earlier.[/color][/color][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Ok, I don't know much about MJ, but you don't know much about being pregnant. One of my friend's mother's didn't know she was pregnant during the whole thing. It is possible to not show during pregnancy, and you can spot during your pregnancy. Tests aren't always reliable. And sometimes a woman's period isn't very regular. So yes, you can be pregnant and not know.

[quote name='Syk3]Secondly, for the nth time, marijuana is not addictive. It isn't a substance that your body will become physically dependant upon. There's a certain [i]psychological[/i'] addiction, but it's all habit-forming, which can happen with literally anything. Because of this.. it's pointless to use that argument.[/color][/quote]


[color=darkviolet]Yeah, I found out you're right about that. I just asked my brother...the one that got clean after he saw his friend shot. So I appologize about that...I think I should just stick to what I know....Like abortion, politics and being pregnant.[/color]

[QUOTE=Syk3] [color=black] [/color]
No one is saying that you have to do it, but if it was legal, people would have the choice.[/color][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Ah, I see, someone forced you to do it...sorry, I know that's a bit sarcastic on my part. But you're saying that if legalized people would have the right to choose if they wanted to get high or not. You mean that they don't now?[/color]

[quote name='Syk3]']Don't get me wrong -- you're stupid if you smoke while pregnant. But in moderation, your baby isn't going to come out with one eye and no nose. Where in the hell are you getting these "facts"? XD [/color][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]My OB (Obstetrician ie the dr that looks at you when you're preggers) and WIC. No, the kid isn't going to come out missing an eye or an arm from smoking anything...the arm thing can be caused by bands formed by the amniotic fluid... But low birth weight, health problems, pre term birth. It's like smoking cigarettes. Yeah those are health problmes caused while smoking during pregnancy.[/color]

[Zeta]

You are right, I don't know about pregnancy...but how can you not show it? Are you saying not showing it right away or do you mean throughout the entire pregnancy? I know you won't see it right at the start and such, but you can actually not show pregnancy? o_0 But I mean seriously, if you have sex and there is the possibilty of you getting pregnant you should check.

[QUOTE]Yeah, I found out you're right about that. I just asked my brother...the one that got clean after he saw his friend shot. So I appologize about that...I think I should just stick to what I know....Like abortion, politics and being pregnant.[/QUOTE]

I was hoping you would have said something different so I could have brought my oh so wonderful example of why you were wrong. But, seeing as how you now know the truth on that matter, that is all that matters. Hrmm....Syk3 and I were right all along on this subject...I wonder what else we have been right about? ;)

[QUOTE]
Ah, I see, someone forced you to do it...sorry, I know that's a bit sarcastic on my part. But you're saying that if legalized people would have the right to choose if they wanted to get high or not. You mean that they don't now?[/QUOTE]

Oh no, we do have the choice. We have the choice to smoke a substance that isn't what the government makes it out to be. A substance that isn't addicting and a substance doesn't cause problems in the way you are taught. But what we do have is the ability to get hauled off to jail because of our choice. Get hauled off to jail by a government that is unwilling to change their views on marijuana, given all the evidence that they are not 100% right in what they believe about it.

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Zeta]

Show me the evience that it these things (disorders etc...) come from marijuana use alone, and I will admit I was wrong.


[/i][/QUOTE]
Numerous studies have pointed to an increase of chances for schizophrenia. I really shouldn't have to say this to you if you've done any research at all.

I smoke marijuana, I don't have a problem with it. Also this grade arguement of yours Zeta is one of the funniest things I've ever read.

[Syk3]

[quote name='Harry']Numerous studies have pointed to an increase of chances for schizophrenia. I really shouldn't have to say this to you if you've done any research at all.[/quote]You mean if predisposed, or are you saying materializing from scratch? If predisposed, yeah, we agree on the possibility of those kinds of mental disfunctions.

[James]

[quote=Syk3]

In a lot of ways, we're preaching similar things to a different set of people, and therefore, we stress different things. You are saying to those who think that it's harmless that there are consequences. We are saying to those who used to think it was harmless, but then changed their opinion because of what they learned in school, that it's safer than they think it is. We're not saying that you're wrong that pot isn't completely harmless, just as you're not saying that we're wrong that responsible and moderate use is alright (I think).


[/quote]

[color=#334366]Correct. I think that your views are significantly more moderate than Zeta's though. Zeta clearly has an axe to grind and he doesn't seem to really acknowledge the harmful properties of the drug. There is [i]still[/i] no acknowledgement about the data that I posted earlier, for example. I have seen that information in many forms and in many locations -- I can keep going and going, with unbiased sources.

I think the main point is that I'm intending to share information to educate those who have incorrect ideas about marijuana -- whether they believe it's harmless or whether they believe it's the most dangerous drug in the world. Clearly it's not the most dangerous drug out there, but it's [i]far[/i] from harmless. It's still a significantly dangerous substance, particularly if abused.

In regard to legalization specifically, I would tend to oppose it save for medical marijuana.

There's a simple reason, too. It's like cigarettes. If cigarettes were invented right now, today, no government would sanction their legal sale. The only reason we face this "it's legal but harmful" dilemma is because it became legal long before anyone knew about the health consequences.

At least with marijuana, we know about many of the harmful impacts that it can have on the human body. So since we're more ahead of the curve than we were with tabacco at the beginning, we can at least not go down that path.[/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]First off, I think that both Zeta and Siren?s arguments based on Zeta?s high school grades are pointless and counter productive to the argument at hand. Zeta, it is fact that marijuana use impairs your perception, short-term memory and cognitive reasoning for a brief period of time. You have used marijuana, so have I, and I can attest to experiencing all of the above (not for an extended period of time, but definitely during the time I was high). I would also say that while you can smoke pot and get decent grades some people cannot. It affects people in different manners.

Siren, I think that your counter argument of high school being easy and the assumption that Zeta (or any pot head for that matter) would not do as well in college because he smokes marijuana is more of an attack than a point. I have several friends that did incredible in college, yet smoked pot constantly. Sure, you could argue, ?well I bet they would have done better if they didn?t smoke pot?. Maybe that?s true, but a 4.0 is a 4.0 no matter how you slice it. When it comes to school some people can just play.

CHW, your arguments about your brother?s friend being shot and your girlfriend having a miscarriage are not very relevant points against the legalization of marijuana either. First, if marijuana was legal would you brother?s friend been in an altercation over the drug? My guess is no. Second, alcohol, cigarettes shoot even large quantities of caffeine can lead to a miscarriage and they are all legal. It sucks that your girlfriend had a miscarriage but again, you are blaming the gun and not the person that shoots it.

I don?t think I will ever smoke marijuana again, and, as of right now there are obvious issues that need to be addressed before legalization could be considered, namely a way to detect how ?high? you are. I don?t want a bunch of impaired morons driving around blazed out of their minds. The reaction time of someone high is less than stellar.

That being said, I don?t think that the government has a right to restrict a substance like marijuana because it is potentially harmful to the user. If it were physically addicting, then yes, I would have zero problems with marijuana being illegal. But it isn?t. I don?t want the government to protect me from me; I need to have some responsibility for my own actions. If I choose to smoke marijuana and I know what the consequences are, and everyone should know what they are, there is more than enough anti marijuana propaganda in the US, then that should be my choice.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]This may sound unrealistic, but I think marijuana should remain an illegal drug and tabacco be made illegal too. They're disgusting, awful smelling and they hurt everyone. I don't want a single wiff of that crap coming into my body. I hate going downtown, there are so many smokers and it's not fair to those non-smokers who have to wait for buses. People shouldn't have the right to smoke because the rest of us breathe that crap in too. Even if there weren't non-smokers around, it still pollutes the air we breathe.

Besides, why legalize something that is clearly bad for your health? Makes no sense to me.[/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']This may sound unrealistic, but I think marijuana should remain an illegal drug and tabacco be made illegal too. They're disgusting, awful smelling and they hurt everyone. I don't want a single wiff of that crap coming into my body. I hate going downtown, there are so many smokers and it's not fair to those non-smokers who have to wait for buses. People shouldn't have the right to smoke because the rest of us breathe that crap in too. Even if there were non-smokers around, it still pollutes the air we breathe.[/COLOR][/quote]
I agree with Chabichou(Who thought that would ever happen?). Tabacco is nasty and I'm sick of breathing it. The people that are addicted to nicotine can just suck it up. You can quit cold turkey if you want to (My Grandfathers sister shows that). You've got to put down the pack and not buy again.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Morpheus']I agree with Chabichou (Who thought that would ever happen?).[/quote]OH MY GOD!!!!! Someone actually agrees with me?! WOW!!! This is the very first time.... sniff...oh I think I'm going to cry...

Ahem.:rolleyes: I'm glad we agree.[/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Zeta'] You are right, I don't know about pregnancy...but how can you not show it? Are you saying not showing it right away or do you mean throughout the entire pregnancy? I know you won't see it right at the start and such, but you can actually not show pregnancy? o_0 But I mean seriously, if you have sex and there is the possibilty of you getting pregnant you should check.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]You'd be amazed at how long you can go without knowing. For example, you could be under a lot of stress, which can cause your period to be late. You may think that it's just the stress. My best friend didn't show until she was 8 months along and she [i]knew[/i] she was pregnant. It's entirely possible to not show or have your period through the pregnancy. Ah the amazing thing that is a woman's body :rolleyes: .[/color]

[quote name='Zeta'] I was hoping you would have said something different so I could have brought my oh so wonderful example of why you were wrong. But, seeing as how you now know the truth on that matter, that is all that matters. Hrmm....Syk3 and I were right all along on this subject...I wonder what else we have been right about? ;)[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Yeah, well, I keep hoping the Bills will go to and [i]win[/i] a Super Bowl, but hey.... The mature thing to do is just take my apology because I should have asked my brother who knows a bit about MJ [spoiler]He only stopped dealing a few months ago, I could have helped you...riiiiiiiight[/spoiler]

You were probably right about such things as you should change your underwear daily and things like that. and don't take candy from strangers[/color]

[quote name='Zeta'] Get hauled off to jail by a government that is unwilling to change their views on marijuana, given all the evidence that they are not 100% right in what they believe about it. [/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Welcome to the world of homosexual couples that want to get married. Ok, so they don't get hauled off to jail, but the government is still unwilling to change their veiws. I'm not sure what to add to this.[/color]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE]Zeta, it is fact that marijuana use impairs your perception, short-term memory and cognitive reasoning for a brief period of time.[/QUOTE]

Which is what I said here:

[QUOTE][b]Judging by that and other posts of that nature, I don't think Siren actually knows what in the short term itself means. In the short term means when you are actually stoned, just as Syk3 said.[/b] The last part of that post does make sense. But again, it hasn't happened to me as he claimed it has. I have not displayed any of those characteristics. I can remember back as far as I have always been able to. I can remember exactly what I was doing Christmas Break 2003, and January through April of 2004. Those are times in which I shouldn't be able to remember things based on what Siren is saying, because I was stoned practically every day.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE] Zeta clearly has an axe to grind and he doesn't seem to really acknowledge the harmful properties of the drug. [/QUOTE]

I have acknowledged it James. But I don't believe it can be entirely truthful in the respect that I am looking at. What about the test subjects? Does the disorder run in the family? Do they all ready have it? Provide me with that information and if all the subjects do not have either of those characteristics I will glady rescind my comments and admit I was wrong.

Again what I [i]have[/i] been saying in this entire topic is this: Marijuana is not as bad as everyone seems to think it it. You can look throughout my posts and see for yourself the countless times I have said this.

[QUOTE]Morpheous said in the thread Falsely Accused that I posted saying that marijuana was harmless. Not true. I never said such a thing. I have repeated over and over, that I know it isn't harmless.[b] But what I have said is that it is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. there is a difference between that and saying it is harmless.[/b] Siren also said this, whether he wants to believe it or not. It is right here Siren:[/QUOTE]

Right there for example.

[Syk3]

[quote name='Morpheus']I agree with Chabichou(Who thought that would ever happen?). Tabacco is nasty and I'm sick of breathing it. The people that are addicted to nicotine can just suck it up. You can quit cold turkey if you want to (My Grandfathers sister shows that). You've got to put down the pack and not buy again.[/quote][i]What?![/i] Do you even know what you're saying anymore? lol Just quitting nicotine really isn't that easy; your body comes to depend on it, which is why people have so much trouble getting off cigarettes and have to resort to patches. o_O You can try to quit, sure, but you'll go through physical withdrawal of the substance, and to tell people to just suck it up shows how uninformed you really are.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman']You'd be amazed at how long you can go without knowing. For example, you could be under a lot of stress, which can cause your period to be late. You may think that it's just the stress. My best friend didn't show until she was 8 months along and she knew she was pregnant. It's entirely possible to not show or have your period through the pregnancy. Ah the amazing thing that is a woman's body .[/quote]You're missing the point. You have sex, you check if you're pregnant. If you use a condom, check if it's broken, and if you're on birth control and miss your period, be cautious and check just in case. This is a pretty irresponsible way to have sex.

[quote][i]Welcome to the world of homosexual couples that want to get married. Ok, so they don't get hauled off to jail, but the government is still unwilling to change their veiws. I'm not sure what to add to this.[/i][/QUOTE]This is obviously a seperate topic for another time, but honestly, I don't agree with prohibiting same-sex marriage either. So I guess it depends on where you stand on that issue in order to justify your point that the government should or shouldn't make marijuana legal.

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='Syk3][i]What?![/i'] Do you even know what you're saying anymore? lol Just quitting nicotine really isn't that easy; your body comes to depend on it, which is why people have so much trouble getting off cigarettes and have to resort to patches. o_O You can try to quit, sure, but you'll go through physical withdrawal of the substance, and to tell people to just suck it up shows how uninformed you really are.[/quote]
Actually, quitting really is that simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. Just put down the cigarette and never pick it up again. Have you ever heard the phrase "I can quit whenever I want"? The reason most people don't stop smoking cigarettes is because they simply don't [i]want[/i] to, even though they know it'll give them cancer. Problem is, a risk or chance of danger usually isn't enough to motivate people. Imminent danger usually can, though. My grandmother tried to quit for years. The gum, the patch, smoking less, ect, and it never worked. When her doctor told her that she [i]will[/i] die unless she quit smoking, she quit cold turkey that day. That was 4 years ago, and she hasn't smoked since. She quit, and she "sucked it up."

Tobacco will put you through major withdrawls, sure, but it is possible to quit cold turkey. Pregnant women quit cold turkey. Heck, Morpheus just said that his grandfather's sisters quit cold turkey. No one said it would be easy. It's just simple.

[Syk3]

[QUOTE=Manic Webb]Actually, quitting really is that simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. Just put down the cigarette and never pick it up again. Have you ever heard the phrase "I can quit whenever I want"? The reason most people don't stop smoking cigarettes is because they simply don't [i]want[/i] to, even though they know it'll give them cancer. Problem is, a risk or chance of danger usually isn't enough to motivate people. Imminent danger usually can, though. My grandmother tried to quit for years. The gum, the patch, smoking less, ect, and it never worked. When her doctor told her that she [i]will[/i] die unless she quit smoking, she quit cold turkey that day. That was 4 years ago, and she hasn't smoked since. She quit, and she "sucked it up."

Tobacco will put you through major withdrawls, sure, but it is possible to quit cold turkey. Pregnant women quit cold turkey. Heck, Morpheus just said that his grandfather's sisters quit cold turkey. No one said it would be easy. It's just simple.[/QUOTE]Well, I suppose there are certain ways to be scared out of doing something again, which can happen with a lot of things. And yes, the only person who really needs to take action is the person smoking. The process of just putting down the cigarettes is simple enough, I'll give you that, but to actually do it is often extremely difficult due to the physically addicting qualities. That's all I'm saying.

A lot of people who use the phrase "I can quite whenever I want" are very likely in denial, and won't admit to being addicted to nicotine. But for those who understand their addiction, I don't know a single person who is glad that they depend on the substance. It's a lot easier said than done.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Syk3][i]What?![/i]
You're missing the point. You have sex, you check if you're pregnant. If you use a condom, check if it's broken, and if you're on birth control and miss your period, be cautious and check just in case. This is a pretty irresponsible way to have sex.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Wow, you're an idiot! You didn't even [i]bother[/i] to read what I posted before you replied did you?

You seem to be [b][i]COMPLETELY[i][/b] missing the point of what I was telling Zeta. Women's menstral cycles [i]aren't[/i] always regular. Pregnancy tests aren't always accurate. And most people check their condoms before and after they use them.

Just turn around get off the computer and go smoke some more because you're obviously not comprehending anything I said.[/color]

[silpheedpilot]

I'm probably pretty far into this shin-dig but I gotta voice my opinion about the magical plant we like to commonly call...Weed! First off I wanna get the kid outta me by saying "Weed is bad and you shouldn't do it! Nah nah nah!" And second I have to say that I'm not perfect because, I have tried it and I personally didn't like what it did to me, it altered my mind and thinking and just felt all around...weird. I know that I'm not going to try it again and I would love it if others didn't try it again, continue doing it, or even start. I seems foolish to think that a plant that alters your state of mind for the worse should be praised as something good. So in short, DON'T SMOKE WEED!