Arranged Marriages

[Annie]

[color=darkslategray]I'm going to start off fresh here because I've not really kept up with this thread. Man, where to start..

I totally disagree with arranged marriages. I love and respect my parents. And they love and respect me. So, if your parents respect you, I don't see why they have to arrange your marriage.

I think it's ridiculous. It's just showing me that a parent who takes liberty in arranging their child's marriage doesn't trust them as an adult, and doesn't respect their decision. That's not letting your child grow up, that's restraining them.

Of course, I know that parents only want the best for their children; they want them to be happy and to love. They want to arrange the marriage so that their child doesn't get hurt or end up with the wrong person [in their eyes, I'll add]; we are all humans, we make mistakes. That's how we live and learn. You make a mistake, you learn from it.

What's wrong with the West? Sure, we have our problems, but what gives you the right to talk smack about us? You have none. Divorce rates in the US/West climbs higher and higher. So. Flippin. What. People find out that they don't love each other; husbands abuse their wives (vice versa); parents abuse their children; adultry..Wouldn't that be enough to convince you that you shouldn't be/don't want to be with a person? It sure as hell would make me rethink my marriage, and the safety of my children. It was a mistake I would make, and I would learn from it.

Sure, that situation may or may not occur if the marriage had been arranged. But no one can say that it's absolutely certain it wouldn't happen. How can a parent know what partner is best for their child? They don't date them; they don't hang out with them on a regular basis; they really don't know the partner on a level as you would.

You said so yourself, Chabichou, that the man can/will act one way around someone else, than they would around you. Who's to say that the guy can do what he knows to please the parents, then turn around and beat you; have an affair; molest your children? Parents wouldn't have a clue, until it was too late.

Don't tell me that religion would save you from that, either. People know exactly what they do, and they know it's wrong. Yes, they will get punished for it when they stand at the gates for judgement; but they still do it. You may not be immoral or sinful, but that doesn't speak for others.

I would remain a single woman my entire life if I had to marry whomever my parent's deemed. And I'll agree with James; my parents got pregnant with me by choice. They didn't have to go through what they did, but they wanted to. So, that "obey me because I gave you life" routine doesn't hack it with me.

By the way "you/your" is implying to anyone.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Annalisse][color=darkslategray']I totally disagree with arranged marriages. I love and respect my parents. And they love and respect me. So, if your parents respect you, I don't see why they have to arrange your marriage.[/color][/quote]I don't agree with arranged marriages either. No one can force you to marry someone against your will.

But the thing, many of you keep calling marriages that are not arranged "arranged marriages". How are they arranging things for you if a guy asks you for your hand in marriage? Yes, he asks YOU, and YOU can say yes or no. Just because your parents should agree too, that make its an arranged marriage?

My older sister was directly asked be a guy for her hand in marriage. He was attracted to her intellect and her outspokenness, and her good sense of morals. They had worked together along with other muslim students in a local radio station in which volunteers can speak about different topics. The muslim community in my city has it's own hour on saturdays, and so did other cultural and religious groups. So she went and discussed it with our parents, who also agreed. She's very happy, she likes this guy, he's a good devoted muslim, and he's known very well in our community as a man of good character.

If you call this an "arranged marriage", or an invasion of her rights, you are sadly mistaken. She has the choice to marry him anyway even if our parents didn't agree, but in Islam, she would be commiting a sin, and the marriage would be in an Islamic view, invalid. In Islam, we can only marry people who are muslim, but no one says anyone should be forced to follow this rule. God will deal with it (as muslims believe). There is no compulsion in religion.

But anyway, my sister decides to follow the teachings of our religion. SHE chooses in the end. Got a problem with that?

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Why can't you accept that?[/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#334366]I think that's kind of missing the point, somewhat. Nobody is saying that the marriage is "arranged" if two people willingly want to marry.

We have kind of moved past that subject now. lol[/color]

[Annie]

[color=darkslategray]I was stating [i]my[/i] beliefs. Everyone is entitled, yes. And as am I to say that I disagree with most of everything you've said. And this topic was, in fact, started on an actual arranged marriage: [/color]

[QUOTE=Epitome][size=1][color=#003399]Well, today I was talking to a friend online who is about 6-7 years older than I am and he found out today that he is getting married to someone he hasnt even met yet.

He is Arabic and he said that his parents told him today that one of his dad's clients needed a husband for his daughter (they currently live in Saudi Arabia), and to make sure the client stayed happy with John's father they arranged a marriage. When they told him he said he was shocked and didnt know if he wanted to go through with it.

Even though John, [i]Side Note:[/i] not his real name, wanted to do this for his father, he was thinking about coming back to the US just to get away from it. But he thought it over and told me he decided to go through with it. Later that day, he met her and he said she was beautiful and had a great personality.

But to get to the point, has anyone ever had an arranged marriage in their family. Or has had an arranged marriage or is going to have one?

Ive always thought about what it would be like if I did get an arranged marriage. Even though I am caucasion(sp?), I wouldnt mind seeing what it would be like and how it works out. John's dad had an arranged marriage and it seems to me that it worked out fine. His parents are still together so.

But I have also wanted to know how such things work. For example, Johns parents just picked a random girl without even letthing them meet before hand. Is this how it always happens, or do they normally meet before? And who pays for everything? Or do they split it?

Your opinions please.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

[color=darkslategray]Besides, I said I was going to start off fresh on the idea of arranged marriages. I gave my thoughts and opinions on Epitome's original intention with the thread. Not on how the Muslim community/society/religion does things with marriage. They allow you to choose, that's fine. Good for you and your parnter. Some religions/societies/cultures aren't as lucky as the Muslim. [/color]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f] No one can force you to marry someone against your will.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=darkslategray]
That's how it used to be. The girl (or man) has no choice, what so ever, in the matter. It was that way for a very long time. Muslim, "Westerner", Hispanic, Asian; it didn't matter your race or religion, it still happened. Still is the way in some parts of the world.

And I disagree with that. That's all I was saying.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Hey, question:

Speaking of showing your parents respect by allowing them to seek out a prospective husband for you because the mother carried you for 9 months and the father helped to create you that's all well and good for people who live with their biological parents.

But what about children of adopted families? THeir parents had nothing to do with their procreation so that arguement doesn't apply to them.

I'm greatful to my parents that they gave me a stable home environment, but they didn't contribute to my procreation so I don't have to respect them for that.

more later I have to relenquish the computer[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][QUOTE]And this topic was, in fact, started on an actual arranged marriage[/QUOTE]True, but I would have called it "semi arranged". In my first post, I stated that some muslim parents offer their children in marriage with out thinking properly, or getting their opinion, assuming that their child agrees. In "John's" situation what his father did in the first place was wrong and disrespectful to John, but I doubt he would actually forced "John" into the marriage if "John" had disagreed. John's family is Muslim (I know it doesn't say so in the first post, but he's Arabic and lives in Saudi Arabia, so that must be true), and it is against Islam to force somebody into a marriage.

That was why I had found it neccesary to explain Islamic marriage. "John's" marriage was labeled as "arranged" when infact it was not. At least not entirely. I hope this clarifies the purpose of my previous posts.[/COLOR]

[Epitome]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]True, but I would have called it "semi arranged". In my first post, I stated that some muslim parents offer their children in marriage with out thinking properly, or getting their opinion, assuming that their child agrees. In "John's" situation what his father did in the first place was wrong and disrespectful to John, but I doubt he would actually forced "John" into the marriage if "John" had disagreed. John's family is Muslim (I know it doesn't say so in the first post, but he's Arabic and lives in Saudi Arabia, so that must be true), and it is against Islam to force somebody into a marriage.

That was why I had found it neccesary to explain Islamic marriage. "John's" marriage was labeled as "arranged" when infact it was not. At least not entirely. I hope this clarifies the purpose of my previous posts.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=#00339]Untrue. Thats one of the reasons that John was thinking about running to the U.S. to come back and live with his aunt and uncle.

He was going to be forced into the marriage regadless. And you are correct, it is against Islam to force people into marriage, but sometimes your faith comes after material goods.

But an update on the situation: He is scheduled to be married this July to Shely-kael(I really dont know how to spell it--as close as I can get). He says that she is very enjoyable to be around and that her "smile makes me smile." So she seems like a good ladie.

P.S. If this thread is causing problems, which I hope its not, please close it. I dont want any fighting between my Otakuites ^_^[/size][/color]

[Annie]

[color=darkslategray]Oh, it clarifies [i]your[/i] reasons/thoughts/beliefs. I understand where you were going with your posts. However it's done for your religion/society, that's cool. It's nice to have a choice, yes. Whatever. I wasn't commenting on that.

I was just posting my beliefs on [i]arranged[/i] marriages. The ones like "John's" situation are what I was commenting on, and disagreeing with.

But here we go in circles. I'm done.[/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#B33D79][SIZE=1][i][COLOR=black]If so many people are getting divorced, how does shoving together two people who are as likely to hate each other as anything else help the divorce rate go down?

And spouting non-sequitous facts about divorce has nothing to do with this topic, anyway. The point is arranged marriages, to whatever degree, impede on the rights that any civilized country has set in place for all of its citizens.
Trading children or even virtually selling them is not something that I stand for. I should hope you don't believe in such things, either.

And the idea of "well, sometimes it can turn out okay" just isn't enough to justify the above.[/i][/color]

They could always get a divorce if it doesn't work out. :D
(Yeah, like many [i]un[/i]-arranged marriages these days. Love dwindled at some point in the marriage and was probably not enough to help them look past their differences. See, sometimes it's better to take things this way 'cause you can always blame your parents if something goes miserably wrong in your marriage. (w00t!)

And no, it's not like trading offspring; it's more of [i]proposing[/i] a possible lifemate to your offspring [one whom the parents will surely get along with]. Like in John's case. In-laws have to be pleased too 'cause they are capable of putting pressure on your spouse, which is when you have to run off to some far away kingdom, outof the evil in-laws' reach.)

[i][color=black]How is it self respecting to let a man you do not know intimately (intellectually... what is with you people obsession with sex) ride you like a triple crown horse?[/color][/i]
People obsess about sex because it's THE fun way to procreate. Plus an hour of sex can burn some 900 calories.(again, w00t!) But your partner might also have STD which you too will acquire if you engage in sex; not really covered by the clause [i]"in sickness or in health"[/i] now, is it? ;)

[i][color=darkviolet]But what about children of adopted families? THeir parents had nothing to do with their procreation so that arguement doesn't apply to them.[/color][/i]
If we follow the same line of reasoning, then the answer would probably be:
[i][color=darkviolet]I'm greatful to my parents that they gave me a stable home environment...[/color][/i]

Right. [b]Cheers to John![/b]
Ne, Epitome, he might find it interesting that OB talked about his marriage.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]Yes, I saw the response to my last post. Chabichou said what I would have said if that were me. Er... yeah.

Moving in a different direction...

In the past, there used to be a lot of bride buying (okay, there still is, which is retarded. Someone needs to blow up those who are trafficking people). When I was studying immigration in 8th grade, we did a lot with Ellis Island because well, I live in frickin' New Jersey. But we also talked about Angel Island (which is in uhm... San Fran., I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I seem to have an abysmally poor memory for its city).

And in Language Arts, we read a short story, fictional, although I'm sure similar situations did occur in real life (actually, there used to be the "picture brides" if anyone knows about them). Anyway, the story was about a Japanese woman from a poor family whose marriage was arranged, but her future husband lived in America, so she went on a ship to Angel Island, and met her future husband, etc., but she did it so she could come to America, the land of opportunity. (Just shut up about the epithet of America. It's a different time period, so don't be an annoying politically correct jerk.)

Now, I know that all that sort of stuff happened a long time ago, blah blah blah, but I was just curious, what would you do in a situation like that? Would you go along with it, so you could come to America to start a new life, or would you absolutely refuse to be married to someone you didn't know at all?

Everybody's response will be different, but its just a question to ponder.[/color]

[lea]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f] In Islam, we can only marry people who are muslim, but no one says anyone should be forced to follow this rule.[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

Heh. When I was younger, I was taught that Muslim girls had to marry Muslim guys, while Muslim guys could marry from whatever religion they choose.


I personally am very against "arranged" marriages. To clarify, I am not really against it if/when parents and relatives want you to [i]meet a girl/guy[/i] they know around your age, someone they think is nice in character (though the aunt I live with tells me about boys my age she thinks are nice in both character and looks *half grins*), knows they have the same interests as you, ect. Not really a bad way to know people.

Anyways. The kind of marriages I am fully against are the kind where you have no say in certain/any parts.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='lea']Heh. When I was younger, I was taught that Muslim girls had to marry Muslim guys, while Muslim guys could marry from whatever religion they choose.[/quote]Actually, Muslim men can only marry from women of "the book" meaning, christians and jews, and muslims ofcourse. They can't marry athiests or hindus or other polytheitists

It is not so strict for men because men are the authority in the household and children will take on the religion of the father, (though I don't understand how this works out if the mother is jewish). They are believing people, but in our views, their beliefs have been slightly misguided by altered books.

A muslim man can marry a christian or jewish woman based on the assumption that the women he marries will eventually become muslim herself, or will not try to make her children the same religion as her. If this is not agreed upon beforehand, or if their are muslim women available he should not marry her.

Meh.[/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f] It is not so strict for men because men are the authority in the household and children will take on the religion of the father, (though I don't understand how this works out if the mother is jewish). They are believing people, but in our views, their beliefs have been slightly misguided by altered books.

A muslim man can marry a christian or jewish woman based on the assumption that the women he marries will eventually become muslim herself, or will not try to make her children the same religion as her. If this is not agreed upon beforehand, or if their are muslim women available he should not marry her.

Meh.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]I read somewhere that although men are supposed to be allowed to make decisions that muslim women are actually the head of the household. They are in charge of finances and other home matters. And that like all other religions and relationships it's a balance of who gets to say what and it's equal.

I don't think it's fair to expect the children of an interreligious (for lack of a better word) relationshipships to chose the religion of their fatehr over their mother. Or be forced to chose any religion for that matter. And I don't think it's right to try and convert someone you love to your religion. You should love them no matter what, not just because they're your religion or might chose your religion.

And why aren't women allowed to make the same discicions?[/color]