What Is Your Gender???

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Verdana][size=1]To be honest, I don't much care, but it might help to get different perspectives from the gender points of view. Recent studies [or perhaps not so recent] have shown that gender isn't just a physical thing. It's an ingrained psychological/mental/emotional thing as well. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]I was watching this TV program [don't ask me what it was called, I don't know] on the difference between genders. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]A study was done on children from birth. It shows the taking the same [male] baby and dressing him in a pink outfit, people will think he's a girl. Dressing him in a blue one, people will thing he's a boy. It even demonstrates the difference between the way babies are handled when little. The 'girl' child was cradled and treated preciously, cooed to about how beautiful she'd be, while the 'boy' was generally treated in a rougher manner, standing him up slightly and bouncing him on their knee. He was told how strong and what a good sportsman he'll be. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]I think that example sort of illustrates the differences between the sexes and the way they're treated. There's more, of course, but I figured I'd start with that. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]So what do you think is the biggest difference between the male and female gender, and why do you think it's there? [/size][/font]

[James]

[color=#B0251E]A book I've never read (but will soon hopefully) is Germraine Grier's "The Female Eunuch". I've read the introduction which is, in itself, quite extraordinary. If you have any curiosity about gender roles in society, that book is a [i]must[/i].

I am male, but I know I'm not like my father. That is to say, my "maleness" is different from his. And I think it's definitely a sign of the times. He has all of the more traditional male values, so to speak. And sometimes those outmoded values can actually look quite ridiculous in a modern setting, lol; particularly his attitude toward women's role in society.

I have to admit, growing up in an age where women have enjoyed much more equality, my viewpoint of gender is definitely different from my father's. Many of the things he brings up as issues are things that I've never even considered, simply because it's [i]always[/i] been logical that girls have been equal to boys. Equal but different, of course.

During tertiary schooling, most of my friends were female. That was the direct reverse to high school, where most of my friends were male. But you know, I didn't notice a huge difference.

The males were happier to let go of some traditional males roles and to "embrace their female side", so to speak (even though I think that's a pretty silly phrase). And vice versa; the female friends I've had haven't had the traditional hangups that older women may have.

So I tend to feel that while men and women are different, they are starting to merge slightly in terms of behavior. The traditional male/female barriers and roles are changing and breaking down. So, we can still enjoy our differences as men and women -- we can still find pleasure in being either male or female. However, we can also enjoy being [b]human[/b] and having parts of ourselves overlap all the time.

As I mentioned in that Suggestions & Feedback thread, I kind of like the increased androgyny of society today. I like that people's minds are more open when it comes to gender, athough there's still a massive way to go (attitudes toward transgender people, for example). Gender is still [i]so[/i] engrained in our society that it can be difficult, confusing and even embarassing to actually cross that gender divide and get over it.

I mean, a lot of straight men feel uncomfortable having any closeness with other men, not because it's a natural part of their brain, but because our society sets up those very specific gender roles. This is why attitudes toward sexuality and gender can be quite different from country to country; depending on the environment and society you live in, you'll have different perceptions about the importance and the roles of each gender.

To end my post, I will quote a Madonna, because I think this one quote puts the whole gender thing into some perspective:

[i]"Girls can wear jeans; cut their hair short; wear shirts and boots, because it's okay to be a boy. But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, because you think that being a girl is degrading. But secretly, you'd love to know what it's like, wouldn't you?"[/i]

It's only when you're totally comfortable with your masculinity can you even begin to consider the other side of the coin. ~_^[/color]

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]Lol... nice thread Kat... no really. =d

Anyone who knows me pretty much knows my thoughts on gender. I believe greatly in equality, and hate chauvenism with a [i]passion[/i]. At the same time though, I love the concepts of nobility and chivalry, which kinda make the role of the woman submissive, but that's more of a romantic notion than a practicle notion I actually apply. ^_^;

I think though, that too much emphasis is placed on women having equality, to the point where in some places it has nearly become reverse sexism. I mean, a woman filing a sexual harassment complaint in a workplace would be taken extremely seriously - they don't want to be objectified after all, that's not equal. But a guy? 'Suck it up mate, someone likes ya.'

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while women are now treated as more than subhumans, the stigmas and ideals of the past still apply heavily to men. The woman has gained the right to be openly masculine if she desires, but men still haven't gained the right to be openly feminine. The closest society has achieved so far is the 'metrosexual', and that's just become a running joke for the majority (at least in my experience).

Would I dare cross dress openly at my school? Of course not, I'd probably be told to go home, or forced off campus. But a woman would just get a few disapproving looks from older men [if she wore male clothes], but would otherwise suffer no repercussions. It's a prime example that we aren't living in a equal society.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=Alan][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]Lol... nice thread Kat... no really. =d

Anyone who knows me pretty much knows my thoughts on gender. I believe greatly in equality, and hate chauvenism with a [i]passion[/i]. At the same time though, I love the concepts of nobility and chivalry, which kinda make the role of the woman submissive, but that's more of a romantic notion than a practicle notion I actually apply. ^_^;

I think though, that too much emphasis is placed on women having equality, to the point where in some places it has nearly become reverse sexism. I mean, a woman filing a sexual harassment complaint in a workplace would be taken extremely seriously - they don't want to be objectified after all, that's not equal. But a guy? 'Suck it up mate, someone likes ya.'

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while women are now treated as more than subhumans, the stigmas and ideals of the past still apply heavily to men. The woman has gained the right to be openly masculine if she desires, but men still haven't gained the right to be openly feminine. The closest society has achieved so far is the 'metrosexual', and that's just become a running joke for the majority (at least in my experience).

Would I dare cross dress openly at my school? Of course not, I'd probably be told to go home, or forced off campus. But a woman would just get a few disapproving looks from older men [if she wore male clothes], but would otherwise suffer no repercussions. It's a prime example that we aren't living in a equal society.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1] I get what Alan is saying when he talks about women being overcautious and sexual harrasement considered a big deal. The reason why many people make a big deal about it with women is the fact that if they were say raped, you can get pregnant. Its rare that a male would get offended, and if they do they don't really speak out about it but I don't think it would go as far as the saying [i] oh well toughen' up kid [/i] or anything. Many people look too into stereotyping. (Not saying you do)

As for having certain characteristics coming from the way we were treated at birth, I honestly think it could encourage us, but its not changing the way we are. We both have different bodies and hormones which make us different in our way, how we react, how be think etc. A girl can be a tomboy, but she can still have femine characteristics. As far as metrosexual goes, the reason why its so upsetting to most is the fact that most gay men, are what else, very femine. This is where teasing sets in, BUT i've known some metrosexuals who are into femine things and masculine things that are not teased so I don't think you can say that its not completely accepted. Alot of surfers guys are metrosexuals believe it or not.

Girls are proven to mature faster then boys. Boys grow stronger as the majority of girls tend to become "weaker". There will always be people that will break these stereotypes however, you can't break the hormonal or pyschical balance of anything. Those are alot reasons of what are so different between men and women, but one things for sure, they were meant to be there for one. If we all were the same where would the fun be in that? Everything needs a balance of the opposite gender.



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[James]

[QUOTE=Pumpkin][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]

As far as metrosexual goes, the reason why its so upsetting to most is the fact that most gay men, are what else, very femine. This is where teasing sets in, BUT i've known some metrosexuals who are into femine things and masculine things that are not teased so I don't think you can say that its not completely accepted. Alot of surfers guys are metrosexuals believe it or not.


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[color=#B0251E]And that right there is another stereotype, related to the gender issue. Gay men are not feminine -- [i]some[/i] gay men are; arguably the most visible ones are anyway. The assumption that a gay man must be "less than a man" or "less than masculine" is just another example of old fashioned concepts and a lack of equality. It's also simply a lack of reality.

The teasing is largely coming from people who are either confused about their own sexuality or who find the whole issue uncomfortable because they have grown up with very strong gender roles in their life (as most of us have).

Avoiding stereotypes (the concept that femininity is weak or un-manly and vice versa) is probably the first step to achieving some kind of real advancement I think.[/color]

[Adahn]

[size=2]Men and Women are the same. They have their own hopes, fears, and dreams. They have their own lives. They're just people. Sure, there are differences, but we're all different. It's not at all unlikely for you to find someone of the opposite sex who relates to you better than those of your own gender, because gender doesn't interfere with the soul. Having more in common with people of the opposite sex, or the same sex, for that matter, implies nothing about your own sexuality. If you find people of the same sex attractive and alluring, that's your thing. I'm happy to say that I find men and women equally unattractive, thanks to having found my soulmate. For discrimination to end, you have to be able to look beyond gender and see into someone's soul. You have to stop thinking about people as to how they affect or reflect you, and put yourself in their situation. You should realize that whoever it is, it's just another person. Another living, loving human being. Another person who, however different he/she may seem, is in [i]exactly[/i] the same position you are, which is to say, that person has his/her own life, and everything that comes with it.[/size]
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[size=2]I can't help but think of Euro Trip, where that one girl is always treated as 'one of the guys', however feminine she may be. In the end, they realized they all wanted the same thing. [spoiler]Hot European Sex.[/spoiler][/size]

[Annie]

[color=#404142]Precisely, James. There are plenty of homosexual [men] whom, if you looked at them, you would [b]not[/b] be able to deceifer their homosexuality. I have quite a few guy friends like that. In fact, one of them keeps his body in peak physical condition; I would not want to make him angry.

I am female, and I'm proud to be one. Not because of the equal rights or the power to throw a man in jail for sexual harassment, or what have you. Being a female has its perks and its downsides. The male gender doesn't have to worry about going through PMS or bearing/birthing children.

But that doesn't suggest they have it easier; not one bit. After all, they have to defend their sexuality. That is, if they aren't comfortable with it; even if they are, they still have to defend themselves.

There was a time in my life where I wanted to be a boy. I was a tomboy growing up; always getting in trouble, never able to wear nice clothes because I'd muddy them up, caught tadpoles in the slimiest mud holes. Yeah, I had Barbies..and you can find them buried all over my backyard. In my early teens, I dressed and acted like a boy. I took alot of critcism from that. Being called a "dike" or "lesbian", always receiving nasty notes from the pretty girls in my class (and some boys, too), getting long lectures from my parents and counselors at school. I actually stayed like that up until a few years ago. Did I care? Not really; society can kiss my *****.

I was/and am comfortable with my sexuality (which I'm sure most people here can say ^-^).[/color]

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]Last semester I read a book called [b]Left Hand of Darkness[/b] which touched on this topic HEAVILY. And so, I wrote my paper for that class on this subject alone. And many of the points you brought up the same things that I talked about as well. See, in this book the main character (it is in the future, mind you) travels to this planet to get them to join some sort of alliance of worlds. He finds that all of the people on this planet are genderless except at a certain point every couple of weeks called [i]kemmer[/i]. When in kemmer, they can take on either a male or female reproductive organ so that sex is possible. It touched on so many issues dealing with this because the main character was considered a pervert because he was in "permanent kemmer."

But yes, it is so funny to me about how babies are treated. All babies look the same when they are born, boy or girl. [/color][/size]

[future girl]

[size=1]I was never a tomboy growing up, but I was never overtly feminine either. I used to kiss everyone on the mouth until I was about ten and the reason I stopped was because my cousins teased me for it. They said people would think I was a lesbian, even though I was only ten and the person who I kissed on the mouth the most was my mom. I've always been extremely affectionate with my friends, whether they be female or male and so through most of school people assumed I was a lesbian and that was my claim to fame. Luckily though, I'm extremely comfortable with my sexuality so I never let people's teasing phase me. I love being a girl. I like being the smaller more romantic one, but that's by choice. I'd never let anyone take advantage of me... if I didn't want them to ^_~

I wasn't raised like this though. My mother's adopted this role in life that is strictly wife and not much more. She thinks she was put on this earth to serve my father and brothers and has raised or at least tried to raise me and my sisters with that same attitude. We're expected to do all the cleaning, all the cooking and baby caring while the boys do what boys do. As soon as my dad enters the room the first thing that comes out of her mouth is, "Go get your dad food." You're expected to do this and not expect any gratitude in return. My father will go as far as telling you to throw his left overs away despite the face that he's going to the kitchen himself. I'm not expected to leave home until I get married [yea right]. Wanting to gain any form of independance is completely out of the picture because I'm a girl, and I'm not assuming this. It's been told to me, straight from their mouths.

I like to rely on myself and I never want to be in a position where I depend on a man to live. I'm extremely romantic and I'm in love, but what I like in a relationship is mutualness and equality. So many sex activists seem to be vying for the superiority of their gender rather than the equality and harmony of them both.[/size]

[Afire]

[quote name='Lady Asphyxia][font=Verdana][size=1]So what do you think is the biggest difference between the male and female gender, and why do you think it's there? [/size'][/font][/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]I guess it would be the reproductive organs and the hormones they create and how they affect the body and mind. The difference is necessary for reproduction...but evidently they don't affect everyone completely the same. ;)

I was never a tom-boy or a girly-girl. I always knew I was a girl and never wished to be a boy. I'd like to be a guy for a day or so though; just to see what it's like. :D

At this time in my life, I'm extremely glad I'm a girl; since I'm in love with a guy that I would like to procreate with someday.

I think that people everywhere, through all of time, have always treated males and females differently. There are some things that a woman can do that no man could ever do, and things that a man can do that no woman could ever do....no matter how much they try to, or "wish" that they could.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Arcadia]

[size=1]I actually went to this "sex talk" discussion last night, and it was about this topic - differences in genders. Obviously, on a college campus, it was a little more geared towards our, ahem, interests, but it was still pretty cool. They asked men and women different questions (things like, "Do you wear make-up?" or "Have you ever been told by an adult figure that boys don't cry?") and if the answer was yes, then you had to stand up. A lot of the questions kind of made you realize how much society imprints into our minds these ideas about what masculine and feminine should be.

There was also a lot of discussion about stereotypes and whether or not they were true at all. For example, most men are openly competitive, and they're encouraged to be so. Women, however, while still competitive, are a little more subtle about it. What do you think the purpose gossip is? Do we actually care about who said what? No. We just need to make sure we're "winning" - that we look better than everybody else, in both a physical and metaphysical sense. We need to know what everybody else is doing so that we can compare it to ourselves and make sure that [i]we[/i] aren't doing that. And we're encouraged to be competitive in this way because getting a man is still a very important thing for a woman to do. If she doesn't have a boyfriend or have any guys interested in her at all, then she's not much of a woman, is she?

Obviously I'm not saying that this is 100% true 100% of the time. Not all girls gossip, contrary to popular belief. But if you think about it, I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to come up with certain experiences that have a lot to do with this.[/size]

[Sandy]

[quote name='Annalisse][color=#404142]There are plenty of homosexual [men] whom, if you looked at them, you would [b]not[/b'] be able to deceifer their homosexuality.[/color][/quote]

I disagree, I can spot them with my unerring Gaydar [SIZE=1](TM by [I]Will&Grace[/I])[/SIZE], Mother Nature's gift to us gay men!


...Yeah, I wish. Anyhow, I'm not completely buying that "anybody can be anything - there's no way of telling it" -stuff. Sure, from some people it's[I] harder [/I] to tell, but just by walking to a Gay Night Club you can see that most of the people there belong there. ;)

But like life goes, there's diversity in everything - including gay people. Some are muscular jocks or hairy bears but STILL there can be that glint of something that hints that they might be interested about the same gender. Maybe its the way they act with other guys, or the way they secretly observe hunky studs that pass them... It's hard to specify just [I]what[/I] it exactly is.

I have been "out of the closet" for over a year and a half now, and I've gone through quite a change from an uncertain and shy teenager to happy and virile young man - and you should hear the way I speak nowadays, especially when the subject is the hunkier gender. :blush:

Anyhow, to add something to the actual topic, not so long ago I took a Gender Test at the website of a local organization defending the rights of sexual minorities. The calculation of the result was a bit quirky, but I think it will suffice to say that I had 2 femininity points and -6 masculinity points. :p So I wouldn't neglect that "gay men are feminine" -clause just yet, James. (And I surely DON'T wear pink tanktops and glittery tiaras!)

My [I]own[/I] theory about genders is that every man and woman situate to a different point in the masculine-feminine line, despite what kind of playthings he or she is born with. It all comes down to our minuscule life-partner DNA, that pretty much defines who we are. So yes, I believe that people are born with more or less masculinity or feminity. However, what sexual tendencies they will have when they grow up is affected by many other things besides DNA, like the values, tolerance and principles of the upbringers and the environment, the models they give etc. You can't point out one exact reason that makes people straight or gay, and the sexuality can indeed "change" with life (although it can be debated wether it is real change or just denial).

This is all a very complicated issue with no clear answers, but at least I've now given my opinion and thoughts and point of view as a gay guy (aka my two cents).

[Cat]

I'm Female. I have never really notice a that much of a difference when it comes to guys and girls. All through middle school I had mostly girl friends but when I got into highschool it changed. I had more guy friends and I could not tell the difference. We are both human and people. So, why does it matter what gender you are? I feel that as long as you can get along it does not matter what gender you are but there are still people that don't beleive that and thats really sad.

[Semjaza]

I've never really thought about this. I don't regularly do things to make myself feel more masculine than I would normally act. I like some sports, I like comic books, I like video games, I like many things the stereotypical guy would like. At the same time, my favorite color is hot pink and I love flowers, things that would largely be attributed to females.

Throughout my life I find myself associating most with things that don't really conform to these stereotypes. A large aspect of my life has been music for as long as I can remember, and a lot of the time the centerpieces of this have been Bowie and Manson. Two men who really have embraced both sides of everything in a gender sense, resulting in the sort of androgyny James spoke of in his first post.

In my Modernism class, we've been going over topics such as the "New Woman" (namely, white middle-class women who were shifting from hopeless housewives to working level consumers) and all the things associated with that. It's weird how little the conception of what marks gender roles has changed. The number one answer in the 50s (maybe it was earlier, I can't remember) about what makes a man a man was that he supports his wife and family. It was still the number one answer in the late 90s.

[ShadowsRebel]

I am female. But sometimes I act like a boy. I never acted like a girl my whole life. People say that I should be on dates and never discuss the morals of good and evil. But I never listened to what 'they' say. Screw what they know anyways. I mean have you ever gone an entire day without wondering,

'Why me? Why am I so different from everyone else?'

Well everyone is different from everyone. The clicks and other stuff like that do not exsist only in our minds is popular and all that other stuff. In peoples minds. I am a tomboy. But the girls I know except a certain few are concerned about their looks and clothes...Stuff I may not even think about for a while.

So what I am saying is...

I'm one of many who probably agrees with me. If not then I am fine because I know that I'm happy what I see instead of what 'they' see.

Thank you for your time

-ShadowsRebel

[elfpirate]

[b][size=1]The biggest difference between the genders- or the biggest difference in how the genders are perceived in our society?[/size][/b]

[b][size=1]Gender really is a societal thing. In our society, regardless of the equality movements, etc, the male is perceived as stronger, smarter, and more capable of defending and providing for his family and himself than is his female counterpart.[/size][/b]

[b][size=1][/size][/b]
[b][size=1]As for myself, I really don't think I can be placed in a specific gender role, as my personality is rather androgenous (if you go by the American gender stereotypes).[/size][/b]

[b][size=1]I'm biologically female and my features and body language are [i]very[/i] feminine and womanly, but I do not fall into the female personality stereotype whatsoever.[/size][/b]

[b][size=1]I never owned a Barbie doll (or any other dolls, for that matter) but played war, ninja, and pirate when I was growing up. Almost all of my toys were weapons and GI Joes.[/size][/b]

[b][size=1]To this day, my mom buys me weapons at X-mas time...not "girlie" presents... (:D yay, mom!)[/size][/b]

[b][size=1][/size][/b]
[b][size=1]Being as aggressive and in love with the art of war and piracy is not typically associated with the female persuasion... (which I find astounding, as some of the best snipers, fighters, and pirates have been women).[/size][/b]

[Sanada]

XD This reminds me of something.
When I was a baby, my mother used to dress me in pink girl clothes (Yeah, I'm a guy BTW) because they already bought clothes and were hoping for a girl, well, I turned out to be a boy, but they made me wear those girly clothes and everyone thought I was a girl -_-' :animesigh

Even now I'm sometimes being mistaken for a girl, because I've long hair :animeswea
It's really freky when guys start to flirt with you ^^'

Anyways, I think there are few differences between the sexes, the stereotype Male being aggresive and the female being sweet.

[EVA Unit 100]

[quote name='Sage][SIZE=1](TM by [I]Will&Grace[/I'])[/SIZE][/quote]

That wasn't their joke! That was from Futurama! Damn Will and Grace for being jealous of Bender's shiny metal ***!

Anyway, I'm boy, and a fairly masculine boy at that. The fact that I'm obsessed with MEGAS XLR certainly says something (no offense to any girls who like the show (afterall, if Jamie's right, "Chicks dig giant robots" ;)), but a show about smashing, wrestling, gaming, eating, and dating alien women seems to be about as male-oriented as you can get). My interests mainly consist of smashing, wrestling, gaming, eating, and dating (well, dreaming about) alien women. Still, I'm not completely out of touch with my feminine side. Although most of my best friends are boys, in general I tend to get along better with girls. Being a handsome geek makes me somewhat succeptable to boy-style bullying (i.e. getting beat up) while immune to girl-style bullying (i.e. spreading nasty rumors). Plus I always wondered what a dress felt like. Luckily those thoughts are countered by my alien women dreams. By the way, I'm bi, in general on the straight side of things, but I'm somewhat attracted to some of the boys at my school (though I feel that everyone is bi to some extent).

[2010DigitalBoy]

[QUOTE=Sanada]XD This reminds me of something.
When I was a baby, my mother used to dress me in pink girl clothes (Yeah, I'm a guy BTW) because they already bought clothes and were hoping for a girl, well, I turned out to be a boy, but they made me wear those girly clothes and everyone thought I was a girl -_-' :animesigh

Even now I'm sometimes being mistaken for a girl, because I've long hair :animeswea
It's really freky when guys start to flirt with you ^^'

Anyways, I think there are few differences between the sexes, the stereotype Male being aggresive and the female being sweet.[/QUOTE]

I am also commonly mistaken for a girl, as I have long hair as well. Also, it doesnt help that I always lose the frieing elusive nailclippers.

i am a boy, as you may have guessed, but its not easy when you're a nerdy weakling who could probably be beat up by a girl (elfpirate could totally waste me :animeswea ) Also, I act very immiture (in my genius) and the other guys dont exactly be nice to me. I will say this though, Im much cooler then most other geeks (I am good at making friends.)

[r3vival]

I have to agree with what a few people have already stated. The difference in genders is built off of stereotypes. The male and female stereotypes of masculinity etc. Since birth as mentioned early in the thread males and females are treated differently according to the stereotypes. This is what keeps these stereotypes alive because generally when you're raised to a stereotype there's a good chance you're gonna grow to fit it in some matter. It seems that as time goes by these stereotypes are slowly fading though. Seeing that now the line between male and female crosses over from time to time as far as personality goes.