Homo Sapiens Vs. Adam & Eve

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=blue]Everyone loves Pythagorean Gambit. ^^ You da man, Heaven's Cloud.

Anyway, James, it was bothering me that this book you spoke of didn't gain much publicity, hype, or anything. Seriously, if this work was as sound it was made out to be, there should have been an uproar (or [B]something[/B]). Surely, there's some kind of flaw in it, as I haven't heard it become common knowledge that the Bible is wrong on the origin of species.

Does he explain how he carried out his experiments? Or was it just, "here's a bunch of numbers and data that proves it's wrong. Just take my word for it"? Also, did he use a translation of the Bible, or work with the original language? You'd be surprised at how many theological arguments fall apart at the seams when they realize that a word like "attacked" was derived from something that could have equally meant "moved past" or "overcame" (just an arbitrary example).

After looking into the book a little bit with google, it sounds like an extremely abstract compilation that makes assumptions and then jumps head first into things: A "ready, fire, aim" methodology, if you will. Hardly scientific. Although, he's got a noble cause: to dispel the fallacies created by people who messed with the word of God.

But from what I can tell, there's no real data. Just assumptions, interviews, and speculation (i.e., if we assume this, and take this for granted, then it's clear that this is wrong). In addition, a few scientific facts are supposedly off, and appear to be done because not many are the wiser when it comes to science and they blindly believe anything as long as the word "science" is behind it (regardless if it's proven or not).

That's just the impression I got from google. Obviously it's controversial, so people against the book might ironically be the ones skewing the facts. But, at the same time, it's hardly popular! So I'm wondering how logical and competent it truly is.

I'd really just like to see an unadulterated, concrete excerpt (no skipping, no ellipses, no brackets - because that's all I could find online). Quoting a book is perfectly legitimate if you cite it, right? ^^:[/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#B0251E]It doesn't surprise me that you haven't heard much of it, Azure. lol You live in America, the home of "Creation Science".

Believe me, none of what you said there is at all accurate. Go and read it. Then tell me what you think. ^_^[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=blue]Alright, that's fine. I'll be sure to check it out sometime. Still, one more question: what exactly does the book try to do? Disprove Creationism, or say that creationism has been altered by humans or something?

Cause one dude was talking about Creationist Scientists (or something like that), which makes it sound like either people made up the stories, or altered them.[/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#B0251E]It totally and utterly decimates the concept of Creationism.

It also talks about how Creationism has been rejected by major churches and how it has become a kind of cult-like aspect of religion, particularly in the United States. He also goes into the dubious "science" behind Creation Science -- there are specific examples and specific names. Everything is very, very detailed, I assure you.

If you can find it, it will be an invaluable read. If you have any doubt about Creationism, it'll put those doubts to rest. lol[/color]

[Morpheus]

I haven't read one word of the book(though I plan to) and I already have proof that Creationism was altered by humans: We, or namely a few "Prophets", created the entire ideal. It formed in the minds of those that sought the "Why are we here" that we look for today and found no answer. I don't mean to be so blunt, but isn't it entirely possible that we are just here? That there is no real reason?
Tell me this: If god is so all-powerful, why didn't he just speak to us all and not just 4 people?

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]We, or namely a few "Prophets", created the entire ideal. It formed in the minds of those that sought the "Why are we here" that we look for today and found no answer. I don't mean to be so blunt, but isn't it entirely possible that we are just here? That there is no real reason?
Tell me this: If god is so all-powerful, why didn't he just speak to us all and not just 4 people?[/QUOTE][COLOR=blue]Well, for the record, Prophets weren't the ones to write most of the stuff. Secondly, Jesus is considered the human manifestation of God on earth by most Christians (MOST).

No one said a lack of God is impossible, though. But hey, it's all up to you: if you are willing to take that gamble, you'll either rot in hell or in the ground. By just a small, infinitesimal leap of faith, an eternity can look much nicer, eh? ;)

Also, don't misunderstand: I'm not saying anything against the book (hell, I haven't even read it). It's just that, the stuff I read online was quite unsettling: the author argues something as complicated as God, but doesn't know that there's a difference between revolution and rotation. And then various (possibly edited) excerpts clearly show that this "scientist" doesn't know that light is the standard for time (and then you have the fact that arguing something like the speed of light is pretty much pointless).

Rather than go on and on about various, disturbing analyses I've skimmed through via google, I think it's best not to take these comments to heart and just read the book and judge for yourself. But, just based on what I found online, I will be wary about the author's scientific "facts" while reading (whenever I get around to getting the book, haha).[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Morpheus']I haven't read one word of the book(though I plan to) and I already have proof that Creationism was altered by humans: We, or namely a few "Prophets", created the entire ideal. It formed in the minds of those that sought the "Why are we here" that we look for today and found no answer. I don't mean to be so blunt, but isn't it entirely possible that we are just here? That there is no real reason?[/quote]
[SIZE=1]What "ideal" did a few "Prophets" create? The ideal of an almighty creator? I don't understand what you mean.

Yes, of course, the beginning of religion probably did begin with the question "Why am I here?" but that doesn't invalidate it all. Humans hunger for purpose, and a lack of purpose leaves us with nothing. We live in this rat-race called life, trying to get ahead, and for what end? Just to die, and cease existing? If that were so, what's the point of living a moral life? I mean, we're all going to die eventually, and we have nothing good to look forward to, so why not live it up now?

Anyway, religion also has deep roots in explaining the natural world, and our purpose here on Earth. I suppose if you believe it to be true, there could always be the possibility that we're here for no reason. But this, of course, takes us all back to the classical debate of the Big Bang. What intitiated it? How did it occur? And what matter exploded? Where did that matter come from? These questions are beyond our comprehension, so we (logically) conclude there had to be a "First mover" of some sort. That would equal some divine deity. So, sure, our existance could be meaningless, but why are we here? I can only guess if the Creator decided to make us a game of some sort for their divine entertainment.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]Tell me this: If god is so all-powerful, why didn't he just speak to us all and not just 4 people?[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]This all depends on your religion, and what you believe. But for me, God didn't reveal himself to everyone because Revelation signifies a special trust and bond between the human and God. And Jesus walked around a few thousand years ago, giving miracles out like they were parking tickets. I think God's given us enough proof to go off of.

I'm also guessing that since God gave us free-will, He wouldn't want to cram believing anything down our throats. He'd rather us arrive at our own conclusions, no matter what the consequence. It wouldn't be fair if He were just controlling us.[/SIZE]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Chances are that it would have driven all the peasants crazy. Only a Prophet has the fortitude to hear God.

...

>_>

[b]Edit[/b] I've always wondered what exactly it is that makes Christianity the one true religion, and automatically invalidates every other religion from the Greek Pantheon down to the Nyoongar aboriginals Woggle?[/size]

[Gravy Train]

Well, if anyone has religion, they are bound to believe that theirs is the only true one. Mostly because religions tend to contradict each other so it's hard to belong to more than one. The majority of religious are Christian because of the documented miracles or unexplainable. Such as the bodies of some saints being perfectly preserved for hundreds of years ("incorruptable") without any natural embalming and the Cloak of Juan Diego.

[James]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][COLOR=blue]

Also, don't misunderstand: I'm not saying anything against the book (hell, I haven't even read it). It's just that, the stuff I read online was quite unsettling: the author argues something as complicated as God, but doesn't know that there's a difference between revolution and rotation. And then various (possibly edited) excerpts clearly show that this "scientist" doesn't know that light is the standard for time (and then you have the fact that arguing something like the speed of light is pretty much pointless).

Rather than go on and on about various, disturbing analyses I've skimmed through via google, I think it's best not to take these comments to heart and just read the book and judge for yourself. But, just based on what I found online, I will be wary about the author's scientific "facts" while reading (whenever I get around to getting the book, haha).[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=#B0251E]I don't know what you were reading...but believe me, this guy is a very reputable geologist. Rather than reading dodgy information on Google, I recommend actually trying to find the book -- it's the only way you can decide for yourself.

Don't forget that Ian Plimer has made enemies from Creationist cults; obviously these people have an axe to grind and are anti-knowledge. So chances are, a lot of the stuff out there is going to be directly or indirectly sourced from such people.

If you just read the book itself, you'll then be in a position to accept or reject what it is saying. Don't go into it being "wary" based on stuff you've read on the Internet -- you're already setting yourself up to fit a square peg into a round hole. Once you read it, I think it'll all make a lot more sense. We'll pick up the discussion from there. ^_^[/color]

[r3vival]

A friend of mine proposed the idea of course its not souly his im sure often people think of it this way but that god created us and put us here to do what we will with the time we are given of course theres much more to it then that but you can get the jist of it by my saying its a sort of "ant farm theory". One in which god watches over us but our doings are souly ours not to be confused with gods will.

I myself don't think I'm ready to believe the idea of a single divine creator that placed us here in an Adam and Eve sense. Then again I find myself very unenthused at the scientific standpoint in which everything is based around logic and life is explained or so it seems by numbers ( not really by numbers i'm just expressing the dryness to their ideas) Their is no romanticism nothing deep about their explanation on our purpose our life. In essence I guess I'm very confused on the subject. I am not quite sure if I believe in the ideas of religion although many aspects of it I can say I BLATANTLY AND STRONGLY disagree with but thats a topic for another thread.. I would much prefer if that were the truth then the scientific standpoint. Personally I see it as a mix between the two although I'm being vague I don't have a specific enough standpoint to be any clearer. Although many aspects of life are based around logic and science there is that something more that is there. Similar to the way all these processes work in the human body and mind all these cells work together but are in fact individual cells and do their own jobs and thus have their own separate state of being but somehow from all that comes us... something more is there that connects it all brings it all together under a single state of being or perhaps we are just borrowing the use of these cells and we are in fact something completely different. (since again they do have their own separate state of being as well) Now that I think about it thats an interesting idea but i'm getting off subject.... The fact is theres something else that still isnt explained an X-factor that will ALWAYS be there. Such things will always be open to discussion and perhaps we're looking too much into it the fact is humans always look for a way to justify their existance and always will its a part of human nature the part that I feel separates us from animals our thirst for knowledge of a metaself a self outside ourselves of sorts and so the search continues... for the answers

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][QUOTE=Morpheus]I haven't read one word of the book(though I plan to) and I already have proof that Creationism was altered by humans: We, or namely a few "Prophets", created the entire ideal. It formed in the minds of those that sought the "Why are we here" that we look for today and found no answer. I don't mean to be so blunt, but isn't it entirely possible that we are just here? That there is no real reason?

Tell me this: If god is so all-powerful, why didn't he just speak to us all and not just 4 people?[/QUOTE]I really don't think that assuming a creator exists means that humans invented God. For example, the greek philiosopher Democritus assumed that matter can be broken down untill you finally reach a point where you cannot break it down any longer. At this point, you would reach the building blocks of matter, which are atoms. Does this mean that Democritus invented atoms? There is no proof that atoms exist, not one has ever seen an atom, but all scientific evidence completely supports the theory, which of course all of us agree with.

No one has ever seen God, not even the prophets, but there is evidence in the universe that he exists. I've asked this question before in other discussions and I will repeat it again: Where did all the matter and energy from the Big Bang come from? And people, rather than insulting me, and telling me that I'm "regurgitating years of mental doctrine", how about actually thinking about this question? And you know what? None of you have an answer to it, do you? You will never have the answer. The only logical answer is that a devine being with qualities and powers beyond comprehension could have possibly done it. A being completely seperate and independant of all creation.

To answer your question Morpheus about prophets: God created humans and sent them to live on earth. The reason we were created is to worship God, and follow the way of living he has prescribed for us. The whole point of worshipping God without seeing him is to test our faith and devotion. But ever since Adam's time, people have been straying off the right path. God sends prophets to help guide them back. This is a mercy. He could simply leave us to stray off the right path, and walk right into hell's flames, but God shows us mercy by sending us prophets, and occasionally he would also send a book down, in his own words, telling us the proper way we should live our lives.

I think the reason some people refuse to belive in God is because they don't want to be told what to do. If that's the only reason, then they are being quite cowardly for denying the truth just to legitimize their lifestyle.

There are so many different religions out there, it makes you uneasy, and want to avoid it altogether. Some people use religion as an advantage to make money for themselves, or gain extra respect, or even be worshipped. The pharohs of Egypt weren't gods, and they were worshipped. In addition to that, the Egyptians made up all sorts fo gods and weird stories about them. But that religion was wrong. It was all made up. None of it was real. Why even consider religions that have made-up gods?

Just for a second, lets pretend that God never sent down any books, and that the Torah, the Bible and the Quran never existed. Yet some of us will still assume that some sort of Creator exists, even though we don't know the Creator's name.

But, could more than one Creator exist? Let's think about that for a moment. What would happen if there was more than one god? My little brother was asked this question in Islamic school. Being only four years old at the time, he still managed to provide a logical answer: "If there was more that one god, they would all fight!", he said. Hmmm..... makes sense to me, even coming from a four-year old.

But like I've said before, the purpose of our existence is to worship our Creator. Surely, our creator wouldn't leave us in the dark! He would send us prophets to encourage us to live a good life, and He would send messages in his own words as well.[/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Chabichou]I think the reason some people refuse to belive in God is because they don't want to be told what to do. If that's the only reason, then they are being quite cowardly for denying the truth just to legitimize their lifestyle.

There are so many different religions out there, it makes you uneasy, and want to avoid it altogether. Some people use religion as an advantage to make money for themselves, or gain extra respect, or even be worshipped. The pharohs of Egypt weren't gods, and they were worshipped. In addition to that, the Egyptians made up all sorts fo gods and weird stories about them. But that religion was wrong. It was all made up. None of it was real. Why even consider religions that have made-up gods?

Just for a second, lets pretend that God never sent down any books, and that the Torah, the Bible and the Quran never existed. Yet some of us will still assume that some sort of Creator exists, even though we don't know the Creator's name.
[/QUOTE]
1.That's not the reason at all. I am a proof driven person, and "It just is" is not a good answer to anything, much less [B]EVERYTHING[/B]. Also, the truth is not known, so Islam may or may not be the truth.
2. How do we know that your god isn't made up? We don't, so you have no right to denounce another religion.
3. We assume that when no other thing seems plausible. Yet we have another supported reason which may or may not be true. We don't know.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]I really don't think that assuming a creator exists means that humans invented God. For example, the greek philiosopher Democritus assumed that matter can be broken down untill you finally reach a point where you cannot break it down any longer. At this point, you would reach the building blocks of matter, which are atoms. Does this mean that Democritus invented atoms? There is no proof that atoms exist, not one has ever seen an atom, but all scientific evidence completely supports the theory, which of course all of us agree with

No one has ever seen God, not even the prophets, but there is evidence in the universe that he exists. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I'm impressed Chabichou, you do bring up an interesting point in faith as a foundation to our understanding of the faith-based doctrines.

This reminds me of a simple experiment I recently conducted in my chemistry class. It was an easy experiment, setting up a few buffers by determining equivalence points. This meant titration. We were to conduct the titration using two different methods. The first was a visual indicator, when the solution turned a faint pink, we reach equivalence. The second method was using a pH sensor that recorded the pH every time the base was added. When the reports were handed in the next week, the professor noted that most of the students commented that they trusted the pH indicator (the computerized, more elaborate set up) to be more accurate. My professor merely smiled and said that using a computer or complex probe was no more elaborate than an indicator-titration as the same error existed in both systems: human. You see, whether it was adding a bit too much base to the indicator solution, or the elaborate sensor; the change would still result in the same error. This made me realize that it doesn't matter exactly how complicated or elaborate we study things, or how much we attempt to reason through probabilities; the end result is that all of our actions and reasoning are inevitably fallible.

This concept is directly related to biology which, quite conveniently, steers us back to the topic of evolution. This debate, it seems, has been reverted to a state of "evolution is wrong because..." and "creationism is wrong because...? The fact of the matter is that they are both religious in that they require a great deal of faith to believe in them.

Creationists must believe that there is a divine being, and that despite his omnipotence, he can still be questioned by the logic of his "children".

Evolutionists must believe that there is really no purpose to life. They must believe the staggeringly complex systems and functions (biochemical pathways and chemical interactions) somehow came together so perfectly, that life and its advancement to current standing are conceivably possible.

Well, the matter that we [i]are[/i] here is settled (depending on what philosopher you speak with).

Before analyzing the flaws of each other?s rhetoric... let's consider the possibility that either or both might be true.

Let's imagine that amongst the inconceivably large amount of matter in our universe, the stage was set on this particular world for a chain of events to occur. Perhaps it was through the guidance of some higher power, perhaps it was the right bicarbonate molecule at the right time. Somehow, life flourished. Life changed, died, grew, died, and continued to flourish. We may have a purpose or we may be purposeless but by the purpose to which we ordain unto ourselves.

I ask you, in light of all of the possibilities, is really considering either going to change your outlook on life? Is the evolutionist going to be so defensive that he finds it necessary to attack the specifics of a religious doctrine that is purely motivated and supported only by the intangible faith of its followers? Are theologists? beliefs so threatened that they must exile any understanding or possibility of a science not so removed from God? That perhaps scripture is [i]not[/i] perfect, yet if one truly considers the message, the outcome is similar?

I am a deeply faithful person. My biology professor claiming to know of our origins isn't going to suddenly germinate doubt as to my relationship with God. Questioning each other?s beliefs is perfectly acceptable. However, when you are unwilling to listen to the answer it is a useless endeavor.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Morpheus']How do we know that your god isn't made up? We don't, so you have no right to denounce another religion.[/quote]What do you mean, [I]my[/I] God? No one invented the God Muslims Jews and Cristians believe in. We Just believe that a creator exists, and that he created everything. The name we give to God is simpy the name he calls himself in the his books, which we believe are the word of God.

Meanwhile, the greeks worshipped Zeus, Hera, Athena, Ares, Apollo, Demeter etc, just to name a few. These Gods are [B]made up[/B], they really are, believe me. What gave the greeks the right to simply assume that the Gods appeared out of chaos, and that the "fell in love" with eachother and had more baby Gods?

It's important to accept the fact that you don't know everything. I don't know "Where god came from", so I can't simply make up stories explaining his origins, the way all the ancient and [B]wrong[/B] relgions did. [I]That's[/I] what I call "inventing gods".

Please be sensible people.[/COLOR]

[Guest Alchemist]

[QUOTE=Chabichou]
Meanwhile, the greeks worshipped Zeus, Hera, Athena, Ares, Apollo, Demeter etc, just to name a few. These Gods are [B]made up[/B], they really are, believe me. What gave the greeks the right to simply assume that the Gods appeared out of chaos, and that the "fell in love" with eachother and had more baby Gods?
[/QUOTE]


You don't have proof that greek gods dont exist. You need to stop acting like a stupid religious fundamentalist :mad: . What if i said your god does not exist, which it probaly does not, you would be upset and offended. Believe it or not there other religons besides christian muslim and jewish. I am an athiest and i know better than you to talk bad about some ones religon. :mad: Get some damn tolerence and learn to think, not follow a book :mad:

[drive_monster]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]What do you mean, [I]my[/I] God? No one invented the God Muslims Jews and Cristians believe in. We Just believe that a creator exists, and that he created everything. The name we give to God is simpy the name he calls himself in the his books, which we believe are the word of God.

Meanwhile, the greeks worshipped Zeus, Hera, Athena, Ares, Apollo, Demeter etc, just to name a few. These Gods are [B]made up[/B], they really are, believe me. What gave the greeks the right to simply assume that the Gods appeared out of chaos, and that the "fell in love" with eachother and had more baby Gods?

It's important to accept the fact that you don't know everything. I don't know "Where god came from", so I can't simply make up stories explaining his origins, the way all the ancient and [B]wrong[/B] relgions did. [I]That's[/I] what I call "inventing gods".

Please be sensible people.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]Inventing Gods? What the hell gives you the right to say that there is a right and a wrong religion? What if I still believed in the Greek Gods? What if I said that the God you worship is completely made up and the [B]wrong[/B] one to worship? There is a little thing called tolerance, [I]learn some[/I] . How dare you impose your beleifs on everyone at this board. You need to get out and talk to some people once in a while, the religions you think are "real" aren't the only ones out there.

I wish there was a word for people who are prejudiced against religions, I would call you that right here.

and just so you know, I'm an Atheist.[/COLOR]

[r3vival]

Seriously... you can't be so close-minded about a topic such as religion its as if your brainwashed. Don't get me wrong i don't think people who follow religion are brainwashed but in cases like this your so closed to an idea or belief outside of your own it really is a matter of tolerance. I don't know what I'd be considered given that I don't believe in a specific religion. I tend to see them as guidelines to living a good life which is basically what it comes down to in the end far be it for me to offend anybody because I've nothing against religion so long as it isn't followed "blindly" so to speak. In fact even in that case its nto so much the religion but the individual that is at fault. There are a multitude of different religions out there with their own interpretations of the divine beings that created this world and continue to bless it. Nobody has the right to put down any other belief and attempt to impose their own in such a disrespectful manner... :mad: :mad:

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Sepiroth']You don't have proof that greek gods dont exist. You need to stop acting like a stupid religious fundamentalist :mad: . What if i said your god does not exist, which it probaly does not, you would be upset and offended. Believe it or not there other religons besides christian muslim and jewish. I am an athiest and i know better than you to talk bad about some ones religon. :mad: Get some damn tolerence and learn to think, not follow a book :mad:[/quote]Fundamentalist... ha ha ha. This discussion is getting really interesting.

[QUOTE]Inventing Gods? What the hell gives you the right to say that there is a right and a wrong religion? What if I still believed in the Greek Gods? What if I said that the God you worship is completely made up and the wrong one to worship? There is a little thing called tolerance, learn some . How dare you impose your beleifs on everyone at this board. You need to get out and talk to some people once in a while, the religions you think are "real" aren't the only ones out there. [/QUOTE]I never said that my religion is correct, and I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone on this board either.

But, believe me, the greek gods do not exist, they really don't.

Oh, right, you want "proof". Well, here's your "proof" ladies and gentlemen:

The greeks believed that the sun's rising and setting was the doing of the sun god, Helios. Apparently, Helios dragged the sun behind him, while riding a chariot drawn by fire breathing horse. Quite fascinatiing!

We go into space, and what do we see? The sun doesn't revolve around the earth, but instead the other way around, and to no one's surprise, there is no god riding a chariot drawn by fire breathing horses dragging the sun behind him. Hence, I have come to the conclusion that helios does not exist.

And as entertaining as it sounds, there is also no goddess named Selene hat is dragging the moon behind her while riding a chariot drawn by beautiful milky white horses.

The earth revolves around the sun because of gravity, and the moon revolves around the earth because of gravity. Period.

The greeks also believed that the sky was held up by Atlas, one of the Titans. But we know the sky isn't solid, it's just space as we see it from earth. Do you see anyone holding up the sky? I don't.

The greeks believed the Zues, the supposed god of thunder and lightning was responsible for causing thunderstorms. But we know that rain forms because of water evaporating off the earth's surface and that lightning is cause by the clouds and the ground having opposite electrical charges. So Zues also doesn't exist.

If Zues doesn't exist, then most of the other Gods wouldn't either since they are his children.

[QUOTE]and just so you know, I'm an Atheist.[/QUOTE]Are you indeed? It's quite ironic how athiests stress how important common sense is, how there needs to be [I]logical[/I] explanations for everthing, yet you become so offended when I state that completely illogical religions are wrong. Your hypocrisy is quite astonishing.[/COLOR]

[_Hikaru_]

Hi sepiroth!I made it and have no clue whats going on :animesmil

[_Hikaru_]

[QUOTE]Get some damn tolerence and learn to think, not follow a book [/QUOTE] NYEH!so This is what we is talking about ^_^...wait a sec...*gasp**gets offended*

[_Hikaru_]

Look people.I am a Christian and Im proud of it.Im not saying its the only religion but really in MY religion if you dont believe in God you will rot in Hell.Phoo!I like Heaven much better and hope to see ya'll there :animeswea

[Guest Alchemist]

I'm a Muslim. To me, it seems to be the most simplistic and basic religion their is. There's only one God, and no other diety is to be associated with him. People don't need their own lord to send himself down as his son to die so that they are saved from their sins. Everyone is born free of sin, and their good and bad deeds determine wether they go to hell or heaven in addition to their belief in God. Why did god create us? To serve him, simple as that. This includes living according to his will.

Azurewolf, I'm guessing that you're Muslim too. I just have this gut feeling.

-Chabichou

You mught remeber this post you put in "poll what is your religon?" You go right there and announce in a indirect way that your religon is superior to all others. You need to stop being so high and mighty every religon is riddled with holes. I can point them out easily. I reiterate Fundamentalist.

We go into space, and what do we see? The sun doesn't revolve around the earth, but instead the other way around, and to no one's surprise, there is no god riding a chariot drawn by fire breathing horses dragging the sun behind him. Hence, I have come to the conclusion that helios does not exist.

And as entertaining as it sounds, there is also no goddess named Selene hat is dragging the moon behind her while riding a chariot drawn by beautiful milky white horses.

The earth revolves around the sun because of gravity, and the moon revolves around the earth because of gravity. Period.
-chabichou

Right there you deal a deathblow to your own religon. by using science over faith.
"hence" i come to the conclusion you are a hippocritical fundamentalist.

[_Hikaru_]

Yes 1 God not 10000 like the greeks and romans and egyptians thought.And I agree with my luvly friend:D(mostly not fully)But erm I dont know why Im here :animeswea

[drive_monster]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]To Chabichou:
First of all, when you say a religion is wrong, then you are implying that there is a right religion.

Okay, since you obviously take anything that is called a "fact" to be true, then I'm gonna give this to you as plain and simple as I can. Here's your "logic" for you. Unlike you, though, I'm gonna put these in spoiler tags, because I respect other poeples' religions.

[SPOILER]Where is heaven?

How do you know heaven even exists? Because it says so in a book?

How do you know every lifeform has a soul? It's not physical matter, right? [/SPOILER]

Also, there is ample evidence supporting evolution over Adam and Eve, there have been tests done that state simple sugars can be made out of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen, with electricity. These were supposedly the same conditions that the earth started off with.

If I [B]really[/B] wanted to, I could go around saying that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all wrong. But I [I]respect[/I] the fact that people believe in religions, and I'm not gonna ridicule them for it, unlike you, who says that some religions are just flat-out incorrect.

And another thing, when did I say I needed a logical reason for everything? Do not group people into stereotypes before you know them, that is the basic definition of [I]prejudice[/I].[/COLOR]