Ninja vs. Samurai

[boxybrown305]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I'm quite into the ninja samurai thing lately, and just thought i could start talking about it. Just to see some other peoples reactions, opinions, etc.

For starters, in case you aren't sure of the difference...
A ninja is more focused on stealth, and though they do use a sword, also heavily rely on shuriken, small throwable objects, like stars, knives, etc. (many kinds really, my fav being a wind shuriken, it has four blades that fold out, and flys like a boomerang, back to the thrower). Ninjas generally work alone, however this is not always the case, and most often is like a mercenary, a hired gun of sorts...
Samurai do not use any throwing objects. They rely very heavily on the sword, and skill. There is much more of an honor about being a samurai. It's a way of life, not a thing to do, and their sword is very much a spiritual part of the samurai. They tend to carry two swords, one for primary combat, and another which is shorter.

Examples of this in terms of anime would be...
Ninja- Naruto, or Ninja Scroll (not Ninja Resurection though... it's very inaccurate)
Samurai- Samurai Deeper Kyo, or Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X)

Personally i prefer samurai, though they both are very cool! :D

So please, say any opinion, or correct me if i was wrong with any of that.[/COLOR]

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]Both samurai and ninja have their good points. Samurai are very honorable, while Ninjas sneak through castles through means of stealth.

I think that they are both equally cool. Ninjas have awesome balancing skills, various cool weapons and explosions while samurai are very talented with the sword.

They are both really awesome in my book.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

Yeah, I definetly like both alot. I can't really pick a favorite from the two.

I like ninja for their unsurpassed stealth, and they're good at throwing their kunai and shuriken. I believe they're pretty good with their kodachis as well. A ninja's life probably sucked, as they were supposed to be shadows, not receiving credit for their work, and doing anything to accomplish a mission. It's my understanding that they were dirt poor and stuff back in the day.

I have several books on Bushido and the like because I love how honorable the Samurai were. People like Miyamoto Musashi started me on the Samurai craze of mine. A Samurai's life was pretty good if you had a high rank. However, the whole seppuku thing is a little over-the-top for my western mind.

[elfpirate]

[b]Wow... that's tough choice.[/b]

[b]Samurai were warriors and protectors and were respectable for their loyalty and services, not to mention their skill in battle. A very honorable way of life...[/b]

[b]Ninja, however, were typically hired assassins, relying on stealth, balance, and secrecy... with the ability to penetrate the defenses of the most well-guarded of strongholds.[/b] [b]Very friggin' cool...[/b]

[b]I think I like them both equally... though, historically speaking, they were both ruthless and both were guilty of terrorizing the general population and extorting them.[/b]

[Doc]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]Well, depending if you mean historically or stereotypicaly?[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]*I am basing all I say below from what my history teacher has taught us, and from what I have read.... even though I don't remember the book/story/article exactly*[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]From what I remember, *if I'm wrong correct me please* ,Ninja, itself is actually a martial art, IE: ninjitsu. Ninjitsu is a form of self defense.... so people who practice ninjitsu are known as ninjas.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]As for samurai, I know more info. During the time of the samuri, Japan was limited in the amount of metals available, so their swords consisted of flatened steel/iron, that was bent and folded over itself, then hammered flat to make them thin, sharp blades. This process made the blades very feeble, you could snap them over your knee.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]The samuri carried three blades. [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]1) the Katana, which everybody knows about, was their flimsy, but sharp swords. [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]2) The name escapes me, but they were like mini Katana's, about have the size, which were used when the Katana was broken. [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]3) was a daggar, of which the samurai would impale himself if he dishonored himself or his family. [spoiler]He would stab himself about half way between the belly button and the chest, drag the blade up his rib cage, down to his navel, back to center, left and then right. He would also have a fellow samurai chop his head off before he screamed[/spoiler].... very bloody gorry process.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]When it came to battle, the samurai would use a draw, swing method. They would draw the sword from the sheith, and swing at the opponent and resheith the sword. The warriors would seldom clang swords, such as demonstrated by movies and anime, for the swords would shatter and become usless.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]There is more, but I don't feel like being even more.... violent...[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]I am currently not sure which I would be, for I am not informed enough on the Ninjas... I'll decide later.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=#2f4f4f]EDITNESS: As I said above, if you know I'm wrong, correct me please.[/color][/size][/font]

[boxybrown305]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Hey, cool! Thanx for explaining futher on the samurai... :D

As for the ninja, i merely forgot to post about all the ninjitsu stuff. The thing about that is that there are different kinds of jitsus as well... skills, magic, etc.[/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[quote name='Doc][font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]Well, depending if you mean historically or stereotypicaly?[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]
[b]Historically. The samurai were the guards and servants of the feudal lords... and the only peoples with the right to carry swords.[/b]

[b]They basically policed the "eta" (the common people) and had permission to do whatever they wanted to, unless it somehow went against the mandate of their lord ( in which case, they were obligated to commit seppuku- that is, to off themselves with their short sword in the manner described above. If they did not, then they would flee and become ronin... a lordless samurai that wandered in disgrace and usually took up the life of a bandit). [/b]

[b]The people finally rose up against the samurai (in bloody battles) for their ruthless ways and, after time, the emperor banned all samurai from carrying their swords--[/b]
[b]The samurai, disgraced and defeated, lost their power over the people and became a part of history and legend.[/b]

[b]As far as ninja= a student of ninjitsu, I'm not really clear on that. I have always heard that ninja=assassin. There's a definite possibility that I don't know what I'm talking about with that one...:animesmil [/b]

[boxybrown305]

[COLOR=DarkRed]A ninja isn't neccesarily a student of ninjitsu. Ninjitsu is simply one of many forms of Jitsu that a ninja can be skilled in. Ninjas generally are assassins, though they don't [I]require[/I] to know any form of jitsu to be a ninja.[/COLOR]

[Doc]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]Thanks for the clearifications. I knew some of my post was off... but I was going from memory, of which mine sucks. ^_^ Sorry about that, and thanks for people who have corrected me.[/color][/size][/font]

[Pumpkin]

[FONT=Georgia][SIZE=1]
Hmmm let me try and figure this one out.

[b]Ninja[/b]
[list]
[*]Incredible Stealth Ability which pretty much lets you get away with almost everything
[*]Learning Martial Arts in private
[*]Get to be a Mercenary/Assasin ( I mean come on who hasnt heard of one that isn't cool?)
[*]Get to work alone and have a better chance of making a name for yourself individually
[/list]

[b]Samurai[/b]
[list]
[*]Get to be part of a society based on honor
[*]Can become Wealthy and respected by helping societies
[*]Get to carry around a huge sword
[*]Participate in Battlefields
[/list]

I want to say both, but I think it all depends on your personality. I would probably pick ninja even if they were poor because Samurai's had to suffer alot in the public eye, with seppuku and being controlled by their lord. I would not want to serve under anyone, and as far as I heard Ninja's were not controlled that much. But that is just how I see it.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=Pumpkin][font=Georgia][size=1]
. I would probably pick ninja even if they were poor because Samurai's had to suffer alot in the public eye, with seppuku and being controlled by their lord. I would not want to serve under anyone, and as far as I heard Ninja's were not controlled that much. But that is just how I see it.
[/size][/font][/QUOTE]
[b]The ninja, as far as I know [i]were[/i] samurai... they just took on secret missions on the side... and they were controlled by lords and whomever hired them.[/b]

[b]They, too, were expected to commit seppuku if for some reason, their mission was not a success--even if it wasn't their fault.[/b]

[b]Ninja did not receive adolation for their successes, either... simply a monetary reward or a favor.[/b]

[boxybrown305]

[QUOTE=Pumpkin][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=1]
Hmmm let me try and figure this one out.

[b]Ninja[/b]
[list]
[*]Incredible Stealth Ability which pretty much lets you get away with almost everything
[*]Learning Martial Arts in private
[*]Get to be a Mercenary/Assasin ( I mean come on who hasnt heard of one that isn't cool?)
[*]Get to work alone and have a better chance of making a name for yourself individually
[/list]

[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]Most of that is true, except that because of ninjas being so stealthy, quick, and working solo so often, you wouldn't make a name for yourself. You would be just another nameless legend. You could never prove that you were that ninja... unless you showed off to prove it, in which case all of the people you pissed off would be out to kill you.

Unless you want to be hunted, you would probably be a nameless, or at least faceless myth. Think Trigun... everyone knows the name Vash, but not many believed the actual Vash to be him... and those that did hunted him down.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by [B]elfpirate[/B]

[I]The ninja, as far as I know were samurai... they just took on secret missions on the side... and they were controlled by lords and whomever hired them.

They, too, were expected to commit seppuku if for some reason, their mission was not a success--even if it wasn't their fault.

Ninja did not receive adolation for their successes, either... simply a monetary reward or a favor.[/I][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]Ninjas are NOT Samurai. They each heve very different teqniques and styles. And a samurai worked under a lord, but ninjas did not. They often had someone who had hired them, wether for one job, or long term, but was never a "master" to the ninja.[/COLOR]

[Idiot2.0]

Both choices sound so good. But in the end I'd have to be a Ninja. Why? Because they literally stab people in the back. Plus I think they look cool in their black outfits.

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=boxybrown305][COLOR=DarkRed]Most of that is true, except that because of ninjas being so stealthy, quick, and working solo so often, you wouldn't make a name for yourself. You would be just another nameless legend. You could never prove that you were that ninja... unless you showed off to prove it, in which case all of the people you pissed off would be out to kill you.

Unless you want to be hunted, you would probably be a nameless, or at least faceless myth. Think Trigun... everyone knows the name Vash, but not many believed the actual Vash to be him... and those that did hunted him down.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


[FONT=Georgia][SIZE=1] True you do hold a valid point. Alot of credit wouldn't be given to you, but to me that would override working for someone else. Credit wouldn't really mean alot to me, and that would solve the people chasing me and everything. As long as the name stays intact, who cares if people don't know what you look like? thats a good thing. Like vash as example, he had the choice of going to a normal life, and not many people know his real identity so it's really easy to lie about something like that then people pointing you out. The people that did hunt him down did figure out his true identity because of his own actions, that part would be hard, but if you are careful and have a second one it would be hard for people to figure out your true identity. It's kind of like spiderman. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[boxybrown305]

[quote name='Pumpkin][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=1] True you do hold a valid point. Alot of credit wouldn't be given to you, but to me that would override working for someone else. Credit wouldn't really mean alot to me, and that would solve the people chasing me and everything. As long as the name stays intact, who cares if people don't know what you look like? thats a good thing. Like vash as example, he had the choice of going to a normal life, and not many people know his real identity so it's really easy to lie about something like that then people pointing you out. The people that did hunt him down did figure out his true identity because of his own actions, that part would be hard, but if you are careful and have a second one it would be hard for people to figure out your true identity. It's kind of like spiderman. [/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed]Exactly... :D

Not to mention Spider-Man is like, the BEST comic in the world! The comics of Spider-Man go a lot deeper than the movies and really has a lot to do with the whole secret identity thing. Just wanted to point that out (GREAT example!) :animesmil [/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=boxybrown305]
[color=darkred]Ninjas are NOT Samurai. They each heve very different teqniques and styles. And a samurai worked under a lord, but ninjas did not. They often had someone who had hired them, wether for one job, or long term, but was never a "master" to the ninja.[/color][/QUOTE]
[b]Lords often kept their own ninja (secretly) or they hired ninja-- in order to save face, because ninja were not considered honorable, and therefore, to employ them would be a dishonorable thing for a lord to do.[/b]

[b]In the first case, they were usually both the lord's samurai and private assassins.[/b]

[b]In the second, they were almost always ronin, and therefore samurai, as it was unlawful for eta to learn or to possess weaponry.[/b]

[Retribution]

Really, the life of a ninja isn't all that glamorous. Being one is glorified and glamorized by shows like Naruto. In reality, it was a really crumby way to live.

But in a fight, a ninja would win. Here's why:

- Samurai fight with honor, which would limit what they could do.
- Ninja win by any means, so they'd have the upper hand.
- Ninja could throw shuriken from afar, or just hunt you down and kill you in your sleep with a well-placed shuriken. Samurai don't do that.
- If they were to get into a 1v1 fight, a ninja would definetly poison their blade, so that even if they did get beaten down, they could still win.

And please note, everyone: The katana was [b]not[/b] the samurai's weapon of choice. It was the bow. I mean, who wants to get in close combat unless they have to? Basically, the katana was a last-resort weapon, and usually fought on horseback, firing bows.

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]Samurai were one of the higher classes other than lords. They are like an in between of the lords and the peasants/merchants.

Ninja weren't the most honored of people. They were low life assassins hired to do the dirty work.

Not only did the Samurai commit Seppuku, but other Japanese people as well. If they feel like they dishonored their family, they'd commit seppuku as well.

Here is some more information about Seppuku just in case you didn't know.

When the head gets chopped off with the samurai friend's daito (long sword), the samurai committing seppuku thrusts his wakizashi (short sword) into his stomach just like Doc said.

Also, right before the whole process of seppuku begins, the fellow samurai rinses his sword with some water. He did to cleanse the sword.

The daito (long sword) at one time was used by the samurau to cut down any commoner that offended them. The long sword was more than 24 inches long in length, and the short sword was between 12 to 24 inches. The wakizashi was never used by the owner except for to commit seppuku.

The Samurai often gave their swords names. They believed that it was the [I]soul[/I] of their warriorship. Also, the oldest swords were straight and their early design came from Korea and China.

The wanting of tougher, sharper swords led way to the curved ones you see today.

In the Edo period, the Samurai were highly respected. The Samurai's, an lord's families were the only ones who were taught Japanese etiquitte. Examples of the Japanese etiquitte were Tea Ceremony, opening doors correctly, and bowing.

Also, the Samurai were the ones who started many of the traditions you see in Japan today.

For instance....the food that the Japanese eat during their New Year celebration.
The food is called, osechi-ryori, or Japanese New Year's Cuisine.

It contains many sweet and salty foods such as sweet potatoes and herring. They also eat lots of mochi (steamed sweet rice pounded into rice cakes).

That is one example that was handed down to generation to generation by the Samurai.

Their day to day diet mostly contained really sweet, or really salty foods because they often had to travel long distances. The sugar and salt helped keep them hydrated and with energy.

Towards the end of the Edo period, the samurai were disgraced and no longer needed. That's when the reign of the samurai finally came to an end.

Hope that helped. ^_^[/COLOR]

[Brasil]

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[left] [/left]
[left]I'd say this is an example of clear Ninja superiority/dominance in this comparison.[/left]

[left]If you still doubt the Ninja superiority, I simply refer you to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie trilogy. The first and second ones were far, far superior to the third, because the first two were still about ninjas, while the third was based in Feudal (samurai) Japan.[/left]

[Tigervx]

[COLOR=Teal][FONT=Arial]Well... If we're talking in a purely historically view >>...

Myths are rampart of Samurai and Ninjas; they've been glorified and blown way out of proportion.

Samurai: They were not the honorable fighters we've all come to love and know. Infact, it was very common for Samurai armies to be bribed and change sides. The only reason one samurai would commit seppuku, or kill one self is not out of honor but out of family. Should a Samurai be captured and executed, his belongings don't go to his heir of his choice, but should he commit suicide his will will be cared out. Basically, Samurai from the "Last Samurai" aren't a good comparison to history.

Ninjas: They were never big, infact their numbers could never even become 1/10 of the Samurai during Sengoku Jidai. They were not really secret societies, more just assassins and spies that Lords kept around if they needed to break into a castle or for someone to be killed. And there have been documented accounts of Samurai Ninjas, or more simply a Samurai who has learned the art of stealth to assassinate. The thing is Ninjas were never as fast in real life as they are in say Anime or Movies, considering the fact allot of the stuff they do contradicts psychics.

In the end, stereotypes get in the way of such decision making. It really depends what kind of weapons they're using. If it?s General Ninja vs. General Samurai, then the Ninja could probably take the Samurai out with some sort of Missile weapon. But if they both had muskets for example, I still believe the Ninja would come out on top since there have been documented Ninja Snipers that took out Lords with Musket fire from great distances.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[boxybrown305]

[QUOTE=Tigervx][COLOR=Teal][FONT=Arial]Well... If we're talking in a purely historically view >>...

Myths are rampart of Samurai and Ninjas; they've been glorified and blown way out of proportion.

Samurai: They were not the honorable fighters we've all come to love and know. Infact, it was very common for Samurai armies to be bribed and change sides. The only reason one samurai would commit seppuku, or kill one self is not out of honor but out of family. Should a Samurai be captured and executed, his belongings don't go to his heir of his choice, but should he commit suicide his will will be cared out. Basically, Samurai from the "Last Samurai" aren't a good comparison to history.

Ninjas: They were never big, infact their numbers could never even become 1/10 of the Samurai during Sengoku Jidai. They were not really secret societies, more just assassins and spies that Lords kept around if they needed to break into a castle or for someone to be killed. And there have been documented accounts of Samurai Ninjas, or more simply a Samurai who has learned the art of stealth to assassinate. The thing is Ninjas were never as fast in real life as they are in say Anime or Movies, considering the fact allot of the stuff they do contradicts psychics.

In the end, stereotypes get in the way of such decision making. It really depends what kind of weapons they're using. If it?s General Ninja vs. General Samurai, then the Ninja could probably take the Samurai out with some sort of Missile weapon. But if they both had muskets for example, I still believe the Ninja would come out on top since there have been documented Ninja Snipers that took out Lords with Musket fire from great distances.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]What you say about samurai is true, but i think that the rest of what other people said is true as well. To just say that all samurai took bribes, or all samurai were trusting and honorable would be a huge generalization. :rolleyes:

And when i say that ninjas were quick, or stealthy or whatever, i'm not saying they jumped fifty feet in the air, or hopped from trees at sixty miles an hour. They were just more swift. A quck clean kill. As for using muskets... back in the day those were ungodly inaccurate. You'd have to be 20 feet away at best to get a good "sniper" shot. I'm not so sure about that... :o

As for a ninja samurai. I would believe it, but it would most likely be a Ronin turned ninja (ronin being a samurai whos lord died while under the protection of the samurai. The samurai would lose all respect and thier carrer as a samurai was pretty much over. Thus becoming a ninja for hire was not uncommon). In that case, it would technically be a ninja, but with samurai skills.

Like i said earlier, i like samurai better (though both are cool :D ) just for the honor (that most samurai had... not all), and that their sword was kind of like their spirit. Although in an actual 1 on 1 battle, i don't doubt that a ninja would win.[/COLOR]

[Dielover]

hmmm... tough choice.
I can't help but say that a samurai are better on terms of honor, but if I were to choose I would choose Ninja mainly because of their skills and wits

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]There is a lot of inaccurate information about Ninja and their typical purpose.

More often then not (obviously there are exceptions to every rule) a ninja were orphans and runaways scoured from the eta and peasant farmer classes. Ninja clans specialized in forms of warfare that were often considered taboo by the samurai class, including poisons, bombs, and firearms. Because small groups of ninja often had to infiltrate large, well guarded castles and homes stealth was also an important factor in their training. There are tales of ninja being trained to crouch in one position for days at a time and using items like smoke bombs to disorient their targets.

A ninja?s life training was usually for one mission and was not he/she was not expected to return from it alive. I am by no means stating that all ninja died during or immediately after their objective, it is simply thought that ninja were usually overwhelmed by samurai and guards immediately after or during their mission and they were slaughtered by the overwhelming force.

Trying to figure out which group (samurai or ninja) was deadlier on an individual basis is pretty pointless. Considering both are trained in the art of war at a young age it would really just depend on their natural talent for fighting. On a large scale the samurai would have to be considered the more deadly of the two because there were so many more of them.

As I stated in a similar thread years ago, I don?t find the lives of either group very appealing. It would be much better to live the life of a begging shugyosha (the equivalent of a wondering ronin or samurai hobo a.k.a student of the sword) then be a bloodied pawn for a superior.[/color]

[Zell2003]

[font=Verdana][size=1]The origin of ninjas:[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]I have heard somewhere that ninjutsu was originally from china and that it moved to Japan through a samurai who had travelled to china and met a monk who offered to teach him the secret art.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]Anyway i would prefer to be an honorable ninja :p [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]By that i mean a ninja whos shadow is still his best freind but use his skills for what he sees is for the greater good. (Know that sounds silly..:animeswea)[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]Does anybody here beleive the ninjas had supernatural powers?[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]I was watching this program which was studying sumthin called "Remote Viewing" where some gifted people were closed in a room with total silence and had covered theyre eyes to be in darkness, and were actually sketching areas they had never been to just from the instructions of a person and a semi-blueprint of the area. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]One of them pinpointed the number of people in the building and sketched the door which had a weird design but got it right. they said it could be used to read peoples mind.. could this be a type of abilitie the ninjas had?[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]I also read that there is a possibility that the ninjas were using demonic(satanic) powers to acheive there goals which granted them unbeleivable speed and magic (this reminds of nobunaga in onimusha :animesmil)..[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]Anyone beleive this?[/size][/font]