Anime Anime Is Dying

[Transmutation]

Have you seen all the crap out there nowadays, afew examples:
Yu-gi-oh(which was okay in Japan, people died) :animedepr
Pokemon :animecry:
G & SD Gundam (shudder) :animeangr
Inuyasha (sorry, it is always a recurring theme and the art isn't the bestl, the manga is cool though) :catgirl:
Lets not forget all these American ripoffs.
Manga's doing fine though.
And even worse, all the local & cable channels stopped showing the good shows, probably because of stupid parents that saw their seven-year old watch someone get ripped in half or the corner of a boob.
Something must be done.
Imight flush myself down the toilet!!!
:flush:

[Sea Of Chaos666]

[QUOTE=Transmutation]
And even worse, all the local & cable channels stopped showing the good shows,
[/QUOTE]

I would not say that they took all the good shows off. Rurouni Kenshin is still on CN, and it's not a bad show. Inyasha is not all that bad. But on adult swim they have some good anime shows like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost and the shell (etc...) So there are still some good anime that are still out there. There is also Anime network and they have, well, I think they have the best shows on there. Yeah most Manga is better ten the shows but that does not mean the sho is bad.

[Transmutation]

[quote name='Sea Of Chaos666']I would not say that they took all the good shows off. Rurouni Kenshin is still on CN, and it's not a bad show. Inyasha is not all that bad. But on adult swim they have some good anime shows like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost and the shell (etc...) So there are still some good anime that are still out there. There is also Anime network and they have, well, I think they have the best shows on there. Yeah most Manga is better ten the shows but that does not mean the sho is bad.[/quote]
sorry, i got a little carried away.

[Dagger]

Going by when each of the series you mentioned first appeared on Japanese television,

Yu-Gi-Oh originally started airing in 1998, seven years ago.
Pokemon originally started airing in 1997, eight years ago.
Inuyasha originally started airing in 2000, five years ago.
G Gundam originally started airing in 1994, eleven years ago.
The first SD Gundam OVA series dates back to the late 80s. But I assume you're referring to the recent "SD Gundam Force" television show, which actually premiered in the US before it came to Japan (and has pretty much no connection to the other anime that bear the "SD Gundam" name). It's an anomaly no matter how you slice things.

Suffice it to say that I'm not seeing any kind of trend.

Anyway, it's funny you should mention this, because I totally disagree. Just the other day I came to the realization that 2004 was the single best year (anime-wise, of course) I've ever had. At least three of my top ten series aired last year (Fafner, Elfen Lied and Melody of Oblivion, for those curious). With so many awesome-looking shows set to come out in 2005, I can only assume that things will continue to get better and better. Yeah, the majority of anime is crap--but that's always been true, and holds true for any form of entertainment. I can't help but feel that your fatalism is both unfounded and kind of ridiculous.

On the other hand, I would definitely be up for a discussion of the American & Japanese anime markets--particularly the oft-referenced American "bubble" and the positive/negative effects that flattening sales, consolidation, increased involvement of Japanese companies, etc. may have on the industry. That's the kind of thing fans are usually talking about when they make sweeping statements like "Anime is dying." If there is any trouble looming on the horizon, it will be related to economic stuff, not a lack of ambition/creativity or whatever.

EDIT: Try to watch your post quality a bit. You could easily have just edited that one-liner into your original post, rather than quoting Sea Of Chaos666's entire paragraph.

~Dagger~

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]The anime they show aren't really all that bad. The companies like 4Kids that license it is what make it bad.

Look at what they did with Shamen King, Tokyo Mew Mew, and One Piece.

The dubbing is horrible, and they changed characters' names in One Piece. They even changed the anime from Tokyo Mew Mew to Mew Mew Power. Also, in One Piece, they changed that cigarette that is in Sanji's mouth to a lolli pop. They changed Zoro's name to Zolo....what is worse, eventually Shonen Jump magazine changed his name to Zolo as well.

So it isn't the fact about anime going downhill, but the companies that license it that are.

That's not to say that all of the companies are like 4Kids, there are quite a lot of good ones out there like Viz.

They show Lain and Abenoboshi on G4TechTV, and Full Metal Alchemist is not a bad show either.

If you want good anime, you have to stay up and watch them.[/COLOR]

[Maully]

[color=darkgreen]I agree with Japan. It's not so much the quality of the actual shows that seem to be going down, but the quality of the versions Americans have access to. Ridiculous changes for "age appropriateness" or "cultural difference" are really obnoxious. Bad dubs are also rampant. I don't have any specific examples in mind right now, so I will also just make those sweeping statements.

It really annoys me though that since cartoons are for kids in America, then anime that is not originally meant for younger viewers in it's original form and setting have to be made to suit a young audience in America. I just wonder if the vast American marketing machine will ever realize that animation is a vast medium that is under used in many settings. It has the potential to wrap situations and thoughts into a package that can never be achieved in live action or any other mediums. Sadly, in my opinion, Western thinkers who cannot get past that hurdle are running the TV stations and licensing houses. [/COLOR]

[Sanada]

Anime isn't dying...
Last year (2004) was a great year for Anime, with superb titels as Elfen Lied and Midori No Hibi.
Upcoming year is also very promising, with serie's like Basilisk, Koga Ninpo Cho and the Sanada Juyushi Special.
On the other hand, dubbed, TV versions of Anime are awfull.. In some cases dubs are good, but in many cases there is censhorship and crappy voice acting... But that doesn't mean Anime is dying, is it?

[eleanor]

[i]Have you seen all the crap out there nowadays...[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] There has always been much crap in the anime world, so I don't know what you're getting at. [/color]

[i]Lets not forget all these American ripoffs.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue]As a matter of fact, anime style is based off of Disney's works. Hm. [/color]

[i]And even worse, all the local & cable channels stopped showing the good shows, probably because of stupid parents that saw their seven-year old watch someone get ripped in half or the corner of a boob.
Something must be done.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] I really don't see why so many complain about anime on TV, because I mostly watch Adult Swim for that kind of stuff and it's not like it's horrible or anything. Buy the DVDs if you're a big fan of a particular series. [/color]

[Lord Dante]

i'll have to concur with what's been said about the liscencing companies. dubbing is crap (especially in england) as most often, the dubbing, and what is ACTUALLY said are 100% different.


as for anime on television, in england we get NOTHING exept for american ripoffs and DBZ.

[Guest Alchemist]

I dont think anime is dieing but theyare putting out some crap these days, like digmon yugioh, zatch bell, dice,a nd so on. I am glad Anime Network rolled on to the block.

[Dagger]

Ya know, lately I've been starting to feel as though I'm the only person here who ever has anything good to say about licensing companies. It's getting kind of lonely. And I [i]like[/i] dubs... :animedepr

Seriously, I think it's unfair to say dubs in general are awful based simply on what's shown on television. It's unfortunate, but 4Kids stuff does tend to dominate the airwaves, and it's always going to reflect badly on everything else.

What's funny is that it sometimes seems as if fans focus exclusively on what's turned out terribly (One Piece & etc.) while totally ignoring the fact that, yes, there are anime on TV which have solid dubs and manage to air pretty much uncut. Fullmetal Alchemist and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, anyone? What about Witch Hunter Robin? Wolf's Rain? Big O? FLCL? We'll hopefully be able to add Samurai Champloo & Paranoia Agent to that list once summer rolls around (both of those series already have superb dubs, by the way; we just don't know if/how much they'll be edited).

Which brings me back to my original point: we have a lot to look forward to. At least, I know I do.

~Dagger~

[Godelsensei]

Actually, isn't it simply that there's more anime on TV lately?

Since there isn't as much of a market for shorter, more artistic series on TV, you just see more of the same, childish material.

You have to look around a bit more to find the good stuff, because most of it is 1) new or 2) not mainstream enough in theme to warrant being on TV over hereabouts. And when you do find it, it's either unethical or un-cost-effective to attain it.

[eleanor]

[i]What's funny is that it sometimes seems as if fans focus exclusively on what's turned out terribly (One Piece & etc.) while totally ignoring the fact that, yes, there are anime on TV which have solid dubs and manage to air pretty much uncut. Fullmetal Alchemist and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, anyone? What about Witch Hunter Robin? Wolf's Rain? Big O? FLCL? We'll hopefully be able to add Samurai Champloo & Paranoia Agent to that list once summer rolls around (both of those series already have superb dubs, by the way; we just don't know if/how much they'll be edited).[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] ARGH. Dagger, I love [i]you[/i]. You've just put into words what I've been wanting to rant while flicking someone's head, but was too doubtful to. Just lately, I was reading some peoples' opinions on the Full Metal Alchemist dub, which mostly consisted: GAH THE PEOPLE WHO DUBBED FMA SHOULD BE SHOT! and I'm sort of just sitting there in a dark corner thinking "...but I like Ed's dubbed voice...>_>" I always want to bring up Adult Swim in conversations like this, but I just assume everyone hates it or something! If anything, most of the anime dubs I loathe are 1) Pokemon/Yugioh and 2) Not even aired on regular US tv! Most of them are on the OnDemand section of Comcast.

I mean, I think I died when I heard Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi, but I NEVER see anyone complaining about that! >_<

Yeah, so. I LOVE ADULT SWIM. Take that, everyone.[/color]

[r2vq]

[quote name='Dagger]Ya know, lately I've been starting to feel as though I'm the only person here who ever has anything good to say about licensing companies. It's getting kind of lonely. And I [i]like[/i'] dubs... :animedepr //snip//[/quote]

Actually I say to support dubs too. Though I have to disagree with your tastes to Okita Souji's voice. Found it quite annoying...

What I have against Dubs is that they create Dubbies... which this thread reminds me of.

Not only is the original post not researched, it's totally untrue. Even if the poster is talking only about Licensed Anime, how can one say that lower quality Anime is dying? Especially with all the recent licenses like the Gundam Seeds, and Shounen Jump serii...serieses... shows.

-ArV

[EVA Unit 100]

Let us look at our anime options on TV:

Kids' WB: Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, both of which suck, editted dub or uneditted sub, but the dubbing and editting both make them worse.
4KidsTV: THEY RUINED ONE PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that I have that off my back, I can say they butchered the one good anime on the block, and the other average-to-terrible animes are only made worse by dubbing and editting.
Miguzi: Rave Master, which is downright terrible between the show, edits, and the dub.
Toonami: Seems to be slipping animewise, albietly improving with their inhouse programming. Duel Masters is actually better in the dub but supposedly the 2nd season will be worse, DICE is the most horrid thing in the hostory of mankind, Zatch Bell has a mediocre dub with bits of Americanization, DBGT is skimping on the edits but the dub and the show both suck, and as of next week Kenshin is dead. Hopefully things will improve with Naruto, Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, and hopefully the returns of Yuyu Hakusho and Gundam SEED.
Adult Swim: Excuse Milk-Chan and depending on your tastes Inu-Yasha or Wolfs' Rain and suddenly you have the best outlet for anime on TV. Fullmetal Alchemist is now the most successful anime to air on TV since Gundam Wing, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is beautiful, Cowboy Bebop is awesome, The Big O was cool until the very end, Trigun is returning, and soon we'll be getting Samurai Champloo and Paranoia Agent!
G4TechTV: Last Exile, ROD, and Abenoishi are worth checking out, Gad Guard is OK as well, and Gungrave has a big following. A limited but decent outlet.
The Anime Network: The most variety of anime for sure. However, a very diverse cataloug prevents any stable quality judgement. Azumanga Daioh and Samurai X can't fully make up for Happy Lesson and Gravion, so it's all pick-and-choose with with this network.

Overall things will improve over the year: Kids' WB will lose the rights to Pokemon, 4KidsTV will have its final season, Miguzi will probably still be in suck mode, but Toonami will improve, AS will improve even more than it already has, and hopefully more homes will find goodness in G4TechTV and The Anime Network.

As for the person in the first post who was talking about "rip-offs", HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER? It has to be the most beautifully animated thing I've ever seen on TV other than Stand Alone Complex, Samurai Jack, and Clone Wars! I swear, give those animators one more yen in their paycheck and it you couldn't tell the difference between Avatar and a Miyazaki movie! It's that good!

[DeathBug]

What I'm getting from the original post is a bit of self-centeredness. Allow me to translate:

"I don't like what's on the air, so anime must be in trouble!"

And, in terms of dubs, this season has been the best for Yu-Gi-Oh!, period. Yes, I'm aware there are better, more complex anime shows out there; I watch some of them as well. But I still want my Yu-Gi-Oh!.

[Morpheus]

Oh, cry me a river.

I'd say deathbug hit the nail on the head. If you don't like what you can watch on tv, buy some freaking dvds. The Excel saga, Evangelion, and Ranma are dvd only, and are some of the best. Also, you really ought to look deeper. Abenobashi and Avatar, as mentioned, are wonderful. Anime isn't dying, companies are destroying half of them by editing. It's their fault. If you don't want to buy dvds(or rent), then you are out of luck.

[Transmutation]

I'm getting some bad vibes from all who made a post here, so let me explain why i put the post:
I was bored and had nothing else to type.
Don't scold me, I said I was sorry, oh wait, no I didn't, time to escape.
DOWN THE TOILET! :flush:
Don't hate me.

[Zenriek]

[QUOTE=Japan][COLOR=Navy]The anime they show aren't really all that bad. The companies like 4Kids that license it is what make it bad.

Look at what they did with Shamen King, Tokyo Mew Mew, and One Piece.

The dubbing is horrible, and they changed characters' names in One Piece. They even changed the anime from Tokyo Mew Mew to Mew Mew Power. Also, in One Piece, they changed that cigarette that is in Sanji's mouth to a lolli pop. They changed Zoro's name to Zolo....what is worse, eventually Shonen Jump magazine changed his name to Zolo as well.

So it isn't the fact about anime going downhill, but the companies that license it that are.

That's not to say that all of the companies are like 4Kids, there are quite a lot of good ones out there like Viz.

They show Lain and Abenoboshi on G4TechTV, and Full Metal Alchemist is not a bad show either.

If you want good anime, you have to stay up and watch them.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yup yup... The dubbing in One Piece is aweful, especially Sanji's dubbed voice.
...They changed the cigarette in Sanji's mouth to a friggin' [I]LOLLIPOP!??[/I] :eek:

Anyway... Anime isn't really going downhill, although some animes do suck royally.
Like Japan said, the companies do things to them that make them suck... Well, not suck, but they do things to them that makes it look a little bad..

But there are a few good companies though, and they make them look fine.

[celestiallight]

Anime going down the drain :animecry: N000OOOOoooooo it can't be :animecry:

[color=#ff6600][size=1]celestiallight, please put some more effort into your posts. This level of quality is unacceptable here. If you are going to post, please contribute something worthwhile to the conversation. -Lore[/size][/color]

[RikuRose]

[quote name='celestiallight']Anime going down the drain :animecry: N000OOOOoooooo it can't be :animecry:[/quote]


No way!!!!!!!!! Anime will NEVER die!!!!!!!!!! As long as there are dedicated fans, Anime will never stop being made, so it will never die!

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='RikuRose']No way!!!!!!!!! Anime will NEVER die!!!!!!!!!! As long as there are dedicated fans, Anime will never stop being made, so it will never die![/quote][color=#503f86]Unfortunately it's not so much the dedication of the fans but the number who are willing to actually pay for it, as opposed to downloading or buying DVDs from pirate companies.

There was an interesting article in the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper about how if Miyazaki retires, then there'd be no forerunner left in the anime industry. Here's the bones of the story:

[QUOTE]Industry experts say that not only is there a dearth of talent on a par with Miyazaki, but the overall standard of animators has fallen over the past decade as low pay and poor working conditions force many to quit.

For the animator, starting pay can be as low as £300 a month without benefits. Thy are often paid at a pound per page, a rate that has not risen in 20 years. Producing 15 pages a day is no easy feat for a beginner, meaning 12-hour days and six-day weeks are the norm... reality often bites as animators reach their thirties, by which time they typically earn around a third of the average pay for Japanese their age and at lower hourly rates then supermarket clerks.

More and more animation work is now outsourced to cheaper countries such as South Korea, China and India. This has led to a hollowing out of talent in Japan and the end of the in-house production system, where people mastered each element of the process as they worked their way up from the bottom.
- Colin Joyce, Daily Telegraph[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Anime is, by definition, from Japan, but it's only a matter of time before the number of foreign contributors tips the balance, and what used to be anime becomes plain old cartoons. It may ultimately remove much of what makes anime appeal to its current foreign audience base: its exoticism.
- Johnathan Clements, co-author of the Anime Encyclopedia[/QUOTE]I thought the article was very interesting, heh. Although Ghibli is not by far the only animation studio in Japan, it does seem to be the major gateway for feature-length anime movies in the Western market. It's almost equivelent to Disney, in a way. Although the progression to fully computer-animated films hasn't been made there yet, thankfully.[/color]

[celestiallight]

[quote name='RikuRose']No way!!!!!!!!! Anime will NEVER die!!!!!!!!!! As long as there are dedicated fans, Anime will never stop being made, so it will never die![/quote]

Thank you, those are true words of insperation. Yes you are very right.

[satan665]

Anime series' in America seem to be doing pretty well, if solely the work of adult swim.

Fox and the WB have a big problem since they take kids shows from Japan and bring them over here to be kids shows. Kids in Japan watch more interesting stuff though, and its not super-protected and conservative. I think the Japanese kids shows probably are watched by kids 7-18+ too, and don't translate well into our standards for childrens TV. They really do get some goofy voices, its tough to watch.

Cartoon Network is great since every couple of months they pull out a new show or two which have been getting better and better. FullMetal is pretty good, along with new episodes of the staples like Inuyasha and Yu Yu Hakusho. The other networks I either can't get (Anime Network) or would have to pay too much for (G4).

My biggest problem is that its hard to find new Anime series' that aren't on TV. There's not really a good source for information on Japanese shows, and I'm not really into the download scene. Newtype is pretty useless since they stopped giving DVD's out because they will tell you every single show coming out is great.

I don't know, maybe you guys know a good source?

[Xanadu]

Where would we be without Miyazaki...

Anyway, I agree completly that Anime is still not dieing, although it has greatly decreased over the years, mostly on part of the damn dubbers. When will we learn... Anime is not for kids, god damn, and it's insulting how companies like 4kids can do such a thing... especially to One Piece, my favourit Manga ever since I first read it in Shonen Jump.

Thank god for the few redeeming companies who do decent dubs, though I still think nothing beats the origonal Japenese version, which is why I prefer Subs. Even anime movies like Princess Mononoke which had fairly good dubs are alot better in subs, since the dubbers never get the original timing perfect.