As We Fall From Grace...

[elfpirate]

[b]Our morals seem to slip further into decay as time goes by, and it seems harder and harder to find people with a good sense of moral decency.[/b]

[b]This has been blamed on so many different things, from media to the entropy of the nuclear family, but is there really just one cause for this? I really doubt it.[/b]

[b]Why do [i]you[/i] think people have begun to accept the decay of moral standards, and is this a problem or does it serve to make things easier for peoples who weren't accepted before? [/b]

[b][b](ie: the loosening of sexual moral standards, although responsible for the continuation of high teen pregnancy rates and the transfer of STD's, [i]also[/i] helps homosexuals to be able to be who they are with less fear of discrimination)[/b][/b]

[b]Lastly, in your opinion, what do you believe the true cause/s of this moral decay really is/are?[/b]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] This is a huge expanse of a topic, and it can't be blamed on just one thing. But, I do believe media is a large factor that is affecting the moral decay of our society. Mainly 'pop culture' media and such.

It's pretty sad for me to see seven-year-old girls walk around in the mall alone with two seven-year-olds boys following them everywhere, all of them decked in high-priced designer clothes and trucker hats. I saw them, and I saw a complete waste of a human when they stared at me insolently, like they were too cool for the world.

And then there's the whole 'rebelling' thing, which creates more moral decay. The whole "I'm going to have sex/use drugs/etc. to rebel against my parents" is complete crap to me.

And yes, I think that the sexual moral decay in the US is effecting the acceptance of gay people. Which is disgusting, because people should be able to accept them anyway, but whatever. As for other 'different' people, no, it's not really affecting any other minority. [/color]

[Xanadu]

I'd have to agree with Lunox, in that pretty much all of it is due to the media, which is not as bad here in Quebec, but I hear that it is signifactnly destroying what pass for morals in the Western world.

As for the seven year olds in designer jeans, with the eerie type of eyes that when you look into them, you don't see anything looking back... I hate those people more then anything. The worst part is the famous, rich role modles that people want to be like are, for the magority, brainless, beautiful people (Especially for women) which in itself is responsible for decaying the intellegence of the general population. Furthermore, this forces many people to spend all (If not a good portion) of their time on making themselves look beautiful rather then doing anything constructive.

As for the sexual morals, I find them disgustingly wrong. On the gay issue, I simply choose to remain neutral, but I still feel sbsolutly disgusted by the atrocities they fave daily. For example, a while back we were doing this thing in school, history class, we were all divided into groups and we were making laws for the school and such, and when one kid came out with the law to "exterminate the gays" I nearly punched him in the face.

The only true cause I can see is ignorance, and the media.

[Morpheus]

Oh please. Just because we don't think the same way we did in the fifties doesn't mean we have "moral decay". I would call this nice, healthy change.

If the parents of seven year olds want to spend rediculous amounts of money on clothes, than so be it. Our economy needs every penny.

If kids want to rebel, why the hell not? It's not going to destroy us all, they just want to be different. Power to 'em.

I'd say the "cause" is we as a people becoming more of the "who cares" type. If someone is gay, no skin off my nose. Do we really need to look at acceptance in this much negative light? Isn't that what we strive for?

[James]

[color=#B0251E]Yeah, I'm kinda thinking "what moral decay"? You mean, now that women don't have to live at home and be beaten while their husbands enjoy immunity? Children can no longer be abused in as much silence as during the 50's? Women aren't giving up their 'illegitimate' children because of how society might reflect on them?

I mean, geeze...lol

Crimes against women and children and so on aren't really going up, it's just that these days they are reported far more. Society was very messed up and depraved during the 50's and before that -- a lot more than it is today. I don't know why anyone would hold up that era as being some gold standard of morality.

The same stuff happened back then, but it was dealt with under the table and in a completely irresponsible manner. So, yes, we can see more of our society's warts today...but at least we are aware of what's there and we can talk about it openly and try to fix it.[/color]

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=James][color=#B0251E]Yeah, I'm kinda thinking "what moral decay"? You mean, now that women don't have to live at home and be beaten while their husbands enjoy immunity? Children can no longer be abused in as much silence as during the 50's? Women aren't giving up their 'illegitimate' children because of how society might reflect on them?

I mean, geeze...lol

Crimes against women and children and so on aren't really going up, it's just that these days they are reported far more. Society was very messed up and depraved during the 50's and before that -- a lot more than it is today. I don't know why anyone would hold up that era as being some gold standard of morality.

The same stuff happened back then, but it was dealt with under the table and in a completely irresponsible manner. So, yes, we can see more of our society's warts today...but at least we are aware of what's there and we can talk about it openly and try to fix it.[/color][/QUOTE]

I completely agree. I think that the concept of 'moral decay' in unrealistic. A lot of schools completely ignore a lot of history as it is considered too violent to teach to children and teenagers. I was quite surprised when I took classes in college at how much crime, violence and lack of morals that existed through out history. I forget which period it was when it was considered wrong to spill blood so they figured out ways to torture people with out breaking the skin. I could spend hours discussing the stuff that has happened.

In a sense I believe that our morals have actually improved instead of decaying. People are no longer willing to ignore violence and pretend it doesn't happen. They no longer just turn their backs. I think it appears to be decaying because it's no longer treated like it never happened. In my opinion people today are more morally responsible than they have ever been.

[EVA Unit 100]

The '50s and earlier sound crazy. All those rediculous standards for men and women and children must have been really annoying. I somehow doubt that 80% of this board's members were even alive at the time, so why is the '50s suddenly "the golden age of morality"?

As for rebellion? It's nothing new. The '60s had hippies, the '70s and '80s had punks and rockers, the '90s and '00s have goths, and now rebellion might be taking other forms. Remember, everyone's morals are different, so morals can't demoralize, only change. Certainly stuff like anorexia and STDs that can form from celebrity worship and premarital sex can't be good for people's health, but all those stonned hippies couldn't have been in the best of health either, and most people in the '50s and earlier with their outdated medical treatments must have been in as bad, if not worse, shape.

As for the gay issue, gay people deserved to be accepted even before the current rebellion. Of course, since they mostly weren't before then the rebellion is only helping. Remember, it was "immoral" to let blacks and whites segregate back in the '50s.

Long story short, good and bad things can both come out of rebellion, but different good and bad things would still be there without rebellion, so everything is overall OK.

[eleanor]

[i]Yeah, I'm kinda thinking "what moral decay"? You mean, now that women don't have to live at home and be beaten while their husbands enjoy immunity? Children can no longer be abused in as much silence as during the 50's? Women aren't giving up their 'illegitimate' children because of how society might reflect on them?

I mean, geeze...lol

Crimes against women and children and so on aren't really going up, it's just that these days they are reported far more. Society was very messed up and depraved during the 50's and before that -- a lot more than it is today. I don't know why anyone would hold up that era as being some gold standard of morality.

The same stuff happened back then, but it was dealt with under the table and in a completely irresponsible manner. So, yes, we can see more of our society's warts today...but at least we are aware of what's there and we can talk about it openly and try to fix it.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] True, the world has become more open and eager to fight against crimes such as abuse and such, but I still think there is some [i]type[/i] of moral decay. Not moral decay as in peoples' minds are getting corrupted and more people are prone to go out and kill people, but just in the way we think. There has always been moral 'decay', although now I would use the word 'ignorance'. For this, I would just use the example of the girls I saw at the mall.

But at the same time...yes. There is also 'decay'. As in, there are more teens that are getting involved with sex, drugs, etc. It's a proven fact. If that's not some type of 'decay', I don't know what is. I still think the rebelling against parents thing is compelte crap. I don't even care if it's been around forever, it was crap in the 50s and it's crap now.

Hm. Well...

Let's say I had a daughter. I know these two things: 1) that teens are now more prone to have sex and get STDs/pregnant and 2) My daugher is a teenager right now. Obviously I would want to sit down and talk to her and stuff, but because of today's society, she'd also be...er...more 'accepting' to it. Bad word, but I guess you guys get the point.

*thinks*

So, yes. Ultimately, I agree with James, and take back the word 'decay'. I'd much rather use a word like 'trend'. Or maybe we should just make up a new phrase...or something. Ha. I guess I'll just sum it up with this: there has always been a sort of ignorance in each generation, but ideas grow and people grow, and ultimately people now are 'open' than, let's say, 30 years ago. But I also think that this idea can be brought up: this generation's 'ignorance' or whatever you want to call it is slightly larger than others. I'm not trying to say it's the largest and that "OMG we're all going to die", it's just a problem.

Eh. Although I'm still sort of sketchy on the whole subject. :animesigh [/color]

[elfpirate]

[b]Okay, I'm seeing now that the way I began this thread was not very well thought out, and I apologize for sounding a bit like a televangelist... that was completely unintentional.[/b]

[b]Of course I didn't mean that the old ways were better, with women and minorities of any kind being treated unfairly and suffering abuse (which they [i]still do[/i] to only a [i]slightly[/i] lesser degree-- it's not more open now, by the way, it's more hidden... and there's real danger in portraying it as something of the past, or even as something that is dwindling into non-existence, as it then becomes harder for people to believe that "it's still going on"... and people will stop taking action).[/b]

[b]What I had in mind when I said "moral decay" was the shift in attitudes toward life and other people... the utter apathy that I see all around me everyday.[/b]

[b]For example, it used to be that people were shocked and outraged by the violence in their communities-- now, they seem to just shrug and say "That's just the way it is...".[/b]

[b]It used to be that our prisons were full of men and women-- now they are filled with young boys and girls, as well.[/b]

[b]It seems that people are growing more and more isolated from one another and the bonds of humanity are breaking-- empathy has become a weakness and selfishness and materialism an ideal. Hard work is no longer embraced... and the quick-fix and convenient have become the standard.[/b]

[b]I see this apathy in myself a lot of the time-- when I'm walking down the street and I'm passing the crack dealers and the hookers, their presence doesn't seem to affect me any more than does some person with a business suit and a briefcase walking into a bank. [/b]

[b]It used to be that it was shocking and repellant to be exposed to that type of behavior, but now t[/b][b]hese things that should be socially unacceptable have become commonplace to the point of mass apathy.[/b]

[b]The general reaction is a shrug and "This doesn't involve me...so why should I care?"[/b]

[b]I believe that today, many more people than ever before have become egocentric, materialistic, and lacking in the desire for understanding. They are quicker to turn their backs on their neighbors in need, and would sooner buy a brand new SUV or a Rolex watch than to feed a hungry child.[/b]

[b]Crack whores, "deadbeat dads", 12 and 13 year old gangsta thugs packing tech 9's, half-naked little girls emmulating Brittany Spears-- these are the things that I'm referring to when I say moral decay. All of these things have become so commonplace that we barely even blink at them anymore. [/b]

[b]Progress has been made, I agree-- and "minorities" are a[i] bit[/i] more accepted and, along with women, have more opportunities these days than ever before. [/b]

[b]But those freedoms were [i]fought[/i] for-- by the people. Now that we [i]have[/i] the freedom to be heard, we seem to be too self-involved to raise our voices... and we accept these things that should not be, even if they go against everything that we believe is right.[/b]

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b]Okay, I'm seeing now that the way I began this thread was not very well thought out, and I apologize for sounding a bit like a televangelist... that was completely unintentional.[/b]

[b]Of course I didn't mean that the old ways were better, with women and minorities of any kind being treated unfairly and suffering abuse (which they [i]still do[/i] to only a [i]slightly[/i] lesser degree-- it's not more open now, by the way, it's more hidden... and there's real danger in portraying it as something of the past, or even as something that is dwindling into non-existence, as it then becomes harder for people to believe that "it's still going on"... and people will stop taking action).[/b]

[b]What I had in mind when I said "moral decay" was the shift in attitudes toward life and other people... the utter apathy that I see all around me everyday.[/b]

[b]For example, it used to be that people were shocked and outraged by the violence in their communities-- now, they seem to just shrug and say "That's just the way it is...".[/b]

[b]It used to be that our prisons were full of men and women-- now they are filled with young boys and girls, as well.[/b]

[b]It seems that people are growing more and more isolated from one another and the bonds of humanity are breaking-- empathy has become a weakness and selfishness and materialism an ideal. Hard work is no longer embraced... and the quick-fix and convenient have become the standard.[/b]

[b]I see this apathy in myself a lot of the time-- when I'm walking down the street and I'm passing the crack dealers and the hookers, their presence doesn't seem to affect me any more than does some person with a business suit and a briefcase walking into a bank. [/b]

[b]It used to be that it was shocking and repellant to be exposed to that type of behavior, but now t[/b][b]hese things that should be socially unacceptable have become commonplace to the point of mass apathy.[/b]

[b]The general reaction is a shrug and "This doesn't involve me...so why should I care?"[/b]

[b]I believe that today, many more people than ever before have become egocentric, materialistic, and lacking in the desire for understanding. They are quicker to turn their backs on their neighbors in need, and would sooner buy a brand new SUV or a Rolex watch than to feed a hungry child.[/b]

[b]Crack whores, "deadbeat dads", 12 and 13 year old gangsta thugs packing tech 9's, half-naked little girls emmulating Brittany Spears-- these are the things that I'm referring to when I say moral decay. All of these things have become so commonplace that we barely even blink at them anymore. [/b]

[b]Progress has been made, I agree-- and "minorities" are a[i] bit[/i] more accepted and, along with women, have more opportunities these days than ever before. [/b]

[b]But those freedoms were [i]fought[/i] for-- by the people. Now that we [i]have[/i] the freedom to be heard, we seem to be too self-involved to raise our voices... and we accept these things that should not be, even if they go against everything that we believe is right.[/b][/QUOTE]
I'd like to see some statistics here. We've always had drugs, Whores, deadbeat dads, gangs, and sex symbols. How in the world do you know what it was like 50 years ago?

I'd say that minorities are a lot more accepted. If you don't agree, I invite you to read(or watch) To Kill A Mockingbird. Please get back to me on that.

When did we start to accept things we don't like? I've seen demonstrations about abortion and gay marriage lately in the hundreds of thousands.

I think that people are more laid back to violence because that is the way it is. There's no point in getting all hyped up about it anymore, because it won't do you any good.

So we should go back to having to fight for everything? Sure, our lives have gotten easier, but is that a bad thing? Is always having food right down the road incase we run out bad?

[elfpirate]

[quote name='Morpheus']I'd say that minorities are a lot more accepted. If you don't agree, I invite you to read(or watch) To Kill A Mockingbird. Please get back to me on that.[/quote][b]I never said that progress hadn't been made as far as minorities being accepted. I was stating that they still struggle with being denied the freedoms that should have been theirs to begin with. If you don't agree, I invite you to come spend a week in my neighborhoods, and meet some of my neighbors. Hell, come hang out with me for a bit and listen to my stories.[/b]

[b]Or stop in to your local battered women's shelter or sexual assault crisis centre and listen to those women's stories. Then get back to me on how much progress has actually been made.[/b]

[quote name='Morpheus']When did we start to accept things we don't like? I've seen demonstrations about abortion and gay marriage lately in the hundreds of thousands.[/quote][b]Yeah, okay... but in comparison with the population of our nations, how many people actually care enough to make their voices heard and [i]take action to change[/i] the things that are wrong in our society?[/b]

[b]And your next paragraph blatantly illustrates my point. It states that we have [u]indeed[/u] begun to "accept the things we don't like" :[/b]

[quote name='Morpheus']I think that people are more laid back to violence because that is the way it is. There's no point in getting all hyped up about it anymore, because it won't do you any good.[/quote]
[b]This is a [i]prime[/i] example of the apathy I was talking about... and the acceptance of things that we know are wrong... an acceptance that you deny is even real. [/b]

[b]"There's no point... it won't do you any good... because that's just the way it is"-- [/b][b]What if people like MLK Jr. had adopted this attitude instead of making a stand?[/b]

[b]What if I, as a woman, were unwilling to take a stand against the brutalities committed against females all over the world? What if everyone accepted atrocities because "there's no point" in fighting for what you feel is right?[/b]

[quote name='Morpheus']So we should go back to having to fight for everything?[/quote]
[b]Go back to [u][i]having[/i][/u] to fight for everything? So far, we're damned lucky that we still have the [i]right[/i] to fight for what we believe in. [/b]

[b]Believe me, I would rather "have to fight for" everything that is important to me than to turn away from a worthwhile struggle out of apathy--[u][i]anyday[/i][/u]. The problem lies with people no longer caring enough to listen or to take action to bring positive changes. In other words--the problem [i]does[/i] lie in apathy.[/b]

[quote name='Morpheus']Sure, our lives have gotten easier, but is that a bad thing?? Is always having food right down the road in case we run out bad?[/quote]
[b]Yes, I [u]do[/u] think that it's a bad thing that our lives have become full of convenience and ease. And I also think it's a bad idea to rely on the fact that food is readily available right down the street.[/b]

[b]You know why? Because as the generations pass, we become less and less self-sufficient, and we become weaker as a species- especially in countries like America.[/b]

[b]Yeah-- I think convenience makes us weak ...and it gradually waters down our willpower. I mean, why learn how to survive when everything you need is provided to you by the corporations of America, eh? [/b]

[b]But that is an issue that belongs in another thread, so I won't get into it any more than I already have--not on this one, at any rate.[/b]

[James]

[color=#B0251E]I don't know, I can only speak for my own community. I honestly haven't noticed changing attitudes toward violence and so on. Where I live, people are still as outraged and people are still as willing to help you when you're down -- I honestly haven't noticed some giant apathetic trend.

Not to say that this hasn't or isn't happening elsewhere. But in my own life experience, it hasn't been happening.

Of course, some things have become bigger problems in recent years. Drug use is an issue, for example. However, I don't tend to view that in the context of "the world is slowly going to hell" -- rather, I view it as one trend. Some trends are getting worse, some better. It's always a state of flux, as far as I'm concerned.

But in general - in a broad sense - I think society is always on the incline. Standards tend to rise (living standards, wages, standards of tolerance) and that in turn is often triggered by better education and work conditions. I think it's a cycle that tends to be self-perpetuating. As people become less ignorant and more educated, as they live longer, as they become more financially stable, things tend to improve for everyone.

Of course there are people who fall by the wayside, but remember that I'm only talking about society in a very general sense. There are (and always will be) elements of society that are still having problems or that are going in the wrong direction.[/color]

[eleanor]

[i]Sure, our lives have gotten easier, but is that a bad thing?? Is always having food right down the road in case we run out bad?[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] Yes, well, in that case, I invite you to read War of the Worlds. And "always having food down the road in case we run out" is not exactly a great example. Convenience? Let's take into fact how much energy Americans use and how much we waste. That's [i]convenience[/i]. Let's look at how armies go to the [i]poor[/i] communites when trying to get kids to go to war. It's convenient. It's always [i]convenient[/i] for the middle class and up.

Kids can't even study for thirty minutes, and when they are asked to do something, they moan and ***** about it until they're allowed to sit there and do nothing. Kids are 'rebelling' because they think their parents are being "dumbasses" when they say he/she can't go out tonight because they're freaking FAILING half their classes and they don't even CARE. People at my school are always moping around going "woe is me! I'm failing all my classes!" while they can't even manage to do their homework because they 'didn't have time'. [/color]

[i]I'd like to see some statistics here. We've always had drugs, Whores, deadbeat dads, gangs, and sex symbols. How in the world do you know what it was like 50 years ago?[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] 1) Go to google.com 2) type in appropriate keywords 3) be amazed and blown out of your mind. [/color]

[i]I'd say that minorities are a lot more accepted. If you don't agree, I invite you to read(or watch) To Kill A Mockingbird. Please get back to me on that.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] Yeah. They have. But try being a minority in an upper-middle-class community. There, I am the minority of minorities. Other minorities try and beat us down. It's very nice.

Yes, I do know how much better this nation has gotten. But taking society in general and basing everything off of it and calling it 'ok' is BS.
[/color]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b]You know why? Because as the generations pass, we become less and less self-sufficient, and we become weaker as a species- especially in countries like America.[/b]

[b]Yeah-- I think convenience makes us weak ...and it gradually waters down our willpower. I mean, why learn how to survive when everything you need is provided to you by the corporations of America, eh? [/b]

[b]But that is an issue that belongs in another thread, so I won't get into it any more than I already have--not on this one, at any rate.[/b][/QUOTE]
Well, before you wholly give up on that particular tangent, you might be interested in reading [url=http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20041112-000010.html][u]this[/u][/url] article. A nation of wimps? Perhaps...

In part I think this mindset is just a function of fully maturing/growing up. When I look back on my childhood, it seems as though everything was perfect then. Of course now I know that all sorts of horrible events were taking place all over the world at that time; there isn't much more tragedy or apathy now than there was then. But one tends to regard one's own loss of innocence as the entire world's loss of innocence, I think. *shrugs*

~Dagger~

[Bloodseeker]

Stupid seems to be "in" right now. If a girl or guy isn't loose sexually, he or she is gay. Same thing if they turn a hot member of the opposite sex down because they don't like their personality. If a guy chooses to show discretion when people piss him off a little, he's a *****. Same goes for choosing to not have a "power hour" the night that he turns 21.

So yeah, I've noticed not only a slip in morals, but a slip common sense in some areas as well. The cause? Its not only the media's fault, but also the fault of increased education as a society. As a society learns more, they usually become more liberal. When a society becomes more liberal, they usually become more sensetive. When a society becomes more sensetive, some members take that sensetivity too far and start critisizing the hardships that come with discipline. When discipline falters, so do people's work habbits. When work habbits fall, people find other things to do. Sometimes less-than-moral things. Some become obsessed with get-rich-quick schemes, which often include acts of questionable moral standing. (like taking advantage of laws to sue big companies for stupid reasons)

The rise of capitalism can also be blamed. People are forced to take other people's financial happiness so that they can be financially happy. When you pay rent, the landlord's happy because he has an endless money supply from you, but your unhappy because you have an unending debt. When you move out and buy a house, that's one less person paying the landlord, but now you have your own piece of property and a payable debt, not to mention tax benefits. As such, people have learned that in order to get ahead in this society, you have to be somewhat selfish and take from others what you can.

Also, the liberal view of decreasing the power of the church has played a large part. Religion encourages people to help their fellow man, and do whatever is morally correct in all situations. With that encouragement no longer practically forced on people, their morals are slipping.

That's my view on it.

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=Dagger]In part I think this mindset is just a function of fully maturing/growing up. When I look back on my childhood, it seems as though everything was perfect then. Of course now I know that all sorts of horrible events were taking place all over the world at that time; there isn't much more tragedy or apathy now than there was then. But one tends to regard one's own loss of innocence as the entire world's loss of innocence, I think. *shrugs*

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]
[b]I can say with utmost confidence that this is not the case with me, as I grew up without the luxery of innocence. It is not the disillusionment of a naive soul... merely an observation of my world. I never had the chance to fall for the illusion of innocence in the world... so it was never there to lose. [/b]

[b]And I do see that things have become gradually worse-- not that I think there is more tragedy in the world now than there was before-- I'd never try to claim that-- but in the growing amount of apathy I see consuming the nation's people.[/b]

[r3vival]

I agree that in some sense there is a moral decay. I'd say its because of the generation that we fall into. A generation that came soon after the world wars, civil rights movements, and womans rights movements (not to say that the struggle still continues). Many major victories were already won and so progress slows down as people become "content" with the lives they have come to lead. Then you have people who choose to live to certain ideals such as 13 year old thugs who simply fall into a trend which is really what it is a trend. Everybody has more freedom so what do they do abuse it then the next generation is exposed to such things and come to accept it as the way it is and so continue in that sense. People only truly know as much as they have seen or experienced first hand. Since an overwhelming majority has fallen into these trends why fight it they think? I've seen kids who used to be so quiet and good in school grow with me and completely change especially by the time they enter high school in order to ease their life or do whatever they feel would ease their life. Fall in with the majority or you also have those that feel excessive rebellion is the answer. They do it because they aren't happy and to find the happiness they are/were lacking. People become more apathetic because such things become commonplace and in my case I can't say it even is apathy. Every time I hear of a killing I know how terrible it is but I don't act because there really isn't anything I can do on the matter. Not at the moment at least... I cannot say I want to act and undo what was already done of course there is hope of changing the future but that must be done as a generation not as an individual. A change of this scale isnt to be made by 1 person although 1 person can very well be the beginnings of a larger movement just because people are so cowardly and cannot do much of what they want if they feel they are the only ones. But really there is only so much we can do even then the influences will still be there it really all depends on the strength of the individual to hold true to themselves rather then fall into stereotypes so as nto to be separated from the whole. I'm stumbling on my own thoughts now though so I'm gonna cut it off here until other people state opinions that may generate a more specific idea or thought in my mind so as to make a better reply

[DeathBug]

I think what's different now that marks social decay can be boiled down to two factors: a lack of responsibility, and a lack of shame. It's hard to suggest to people that things happening to them might be their fault, and it's equally hard to suggest that they should feel bad for certain things they do. The social trends if toward immediate narccisism.

[elfpirate]

[b]Ok... I've already ranted on a couple of threads here, but look-[/b]

[b]Last night, I was in such serious freaking pain (yeah, I messed myself up pretty good--heh) and I couldn't go to ER.[/b]

[b]WHY? Because a child murdered his own grandparents and then went to school where he shot like 15 people... there weren't enough doctors and nurses left to take care of the typical ER patients because they were swamped with the gunshot victims from a freakin' school massacre.[/b]

[b]Tell me-- how many times did children annihilate a group of people at their schools and homes 20 years ago?[/b]

[b]20 years ago was past the times of social reform (women's and gy rights, etc...).[/b]

[b]I don't understand how people can say that the general moral fiber of the United States has not slowly decayed when children have become mass murderers in our nation-- and in small communities such as this where they claim that people are still "decent" and "neighborly" to one another.[/b]

[b]And yet another tragic death-- perpetrated by stupidy and apathy...[/b]

[b]I don't know if you guys remeber this, but when I began the "Would you pull the plug?" thread, I told you that a friend of mine was in a coma. [/b]

[b]I found out about 20 minutes ago that she died of her injuries. I am so freakin' pissed.[/b]

[b]Her death could have been completely avoided... but no-- some damned moron couldn't bring himself to care enough about the safety of others to find himself a sober driver... and now a sweet young girl is dead.[/b]

[center][size=4][color=black][b][i]RIP, Jen...[/i][/b][/color][/size][/center]

[Havokio]

[COLOR=Indigo]My condolences for you, elfpirate.

In New York, random shootings are very prevalent. People usually they to use scare tactics on others using the news... apparently, these massacres are the only thing worth mentioning.

Three of my friends were murdered. I would've been the fourth, had I not suffered a headache on that day.

This nation is going to hell.[/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

Moral decay, say you? There [i]was[/i] a time when it was considered entirely acceptable to be a member of the [i]KKK[/i]. Why? Because it was black people. Nobody cared about black people back then. Nobody cared about women's rights either.

However, it is now socially unacceptable to beat your wife or lynch black people. Consequently, when things like this happen, people care. That's why you see so much of it on the news and in the papers--it's not that it's happening more, it's that people are caring more.
Which isn't exactly what I'd call moral decay.

So, society's moral standards are increasing, crime is decreasing, whatever you see on the news, but school shootings are going up.
This is tragic, but I think it can be linked to the availability of guns and how trendy victimization is right now more than a total moral collapse, on the part of the whole world.
People didn't get killed in car crashes when nobody had cars, or ones that simply didn't move too quickly.

New developments give rise to new dangers. And you have people who would have done stupid, heartless things, regardless of when they were born, if raised with the same attitude--there is just more to work with now.

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=Godelsensei]Moral decay, say you? There [i]was[/i] a time when it was considered entirely acceptable to be a member of the [i]KKK[/i]. Why? Because it was black people. Nobody cared about black people back then. Nobody cared about women's rights either.

However, it is now socially unacceptable to beat your wife or lynch black people. Consequently, when things like this happen, people care. That's why you see so much of it on the news and in the papers--it's not that it's happening more, it's that people are caring more.
Which isn't exactly what I'd call moral decay.

So, society's moral standards are increasing, crime is decreasing, whatever you see on the news, but school shootings are going up.
This is tragic, but I think it can be linked to the availability of guns and how trendy victimization is right now more than a total moral collapse, on the part of the whole world..[/QUOTE][b][color=darkgreen][/color][/b]
[b][color=darkgreen]Aye. Moral decay, says I. You know--I almost never watch the news. I watch what is going on around me... I stand up and pay close attention when some stranger is holding a 45 to my skull just to prove that he could kill me if he wanted to.[/color][/b]

[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]It has nothin' to do with the news, Godelsensei, I can see with me own eyes that this country is going to sh_te. My friends are getting murdered... when was the last time that you had to think about burying your friends? [/color][/b]

[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]Crime is not decreasing. You are blind if you can't see the increase in violence-- in both the frequency and intensity of the crimes committed.[/color][/b]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='elfpirate][b][color=darkgreen]Crime is not decreasing. You are blind if you can't see the increase in violence-- in both the frequency and intensity of the crimes committed.[/color'][/b][/quote]

You're only focusing on the crime rate of one area, however. And that area happens to be a Reserve, which are notorious for being unwholesome, to begin with.

Also, we live in different countries.

I haven't detected crime rate going up in the area I live--something very bad will happen once every two or three years, and the rest is really unremarkable, resulting in zero to minor injuries.
Outside the immediate community, you get worse areas, where more violence occurs, but the trends in these areas are pretty much static. A few areas within the city continue to get worse, others improve, and most stay the same.

One area being riddled with acts of violence, even if they are becoming more and more prevalent, doesn't justify accusing the whole world of going down to hell. (Especially if you don't watch the news, which would mean you wouldn't have heard of the situation anywhere outside of your immediate location.)

[Manic Webb]

Before replying to this thread, I decided to do a little searching on Google for crime statistics in the US.

What I found was that, over the past few decades, violent crimes have gone up and down almost randomly. Things aren't getting better, but they're not going totally down the toilet either. Assault and murder crimes only seem to rise as the population increases. I live in California. Here, the number of assault crimes more than doubled from 1965 to 2000. However, the general population also more than doubled from 1965 to 2000. The population to crime ratio only differed by a few points. Statistically, we're damn-near static.

Also, as Godelsensei said before, this stuff is being covered on the news a lot more these days than it used to be. That shows that we care more about what's happening in society, not that we're more apathetic. The people who move on and say "that's the way it is" are the same people who, in a different time, would've expressed outrage and still done nothing about it. And you can't say that nobody "does anything about it," because there are new organizations popping up everywhere for certain causes.

elfpirate. If you have a problem with crime increasing, what are you doing about it? What are you going to do about it? This isn't a challenge or a setup for a debate. I'm saying that if you truly care enough about the well-being of society to complain about it this much, you should be contributing (for the better) somehow. People who complain and walk away aren't much better than people who ignore and walk away. If you [i]are[/i] contributing to society, then good for you. How about telling us all how we can also help.

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=Godelsensei]You're only focusing on the crime rate of one area, however. And that area happens to be a Reserve, which are notorious for being unwholesome, to begin with.
Also, we live in different countries.
One area being riddled with acts of violence, even if they are becoming more and more prevalent, doesn't justify accusing the whole world of going down to hell.[/QUOTE]
[b][color=darkred]First off, I think you need to choose your words a little more wisely. I don't appreciate Reservations being called "unwholesome". They are known for being poor and for being violent. "Unwholesome" puts them in a different kind of light that I don't agree with... and it insinuates the people themselves are unwholesome which is...er...rude, to say the least.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]And yeah-- we're in different countries-- I was specifically talking about the US and its internal apathy.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]I never said the whole world was going to hell. *shrugs*

[color=navy][QUOTE=Manic Webb] [/color]
[color=navy]elfpirate. If you have a problem with crime increasing, what are you doing about it? What are you going to do about it? This isn't a challenge or a setup for a debate. I'm saying that if you truly care enough about the well-being of society to complain about it this much, you should be contributing (for the better) somehow. People who complain and walk away aren't much better than people who ignore and walk away. If you [i]are[/i] contributing to society, then good for you. How about telling us all how we can also help.[/QUOTE][/color]
[/color][/b][b][color=navy][/color][/b]
[b][size=4][color=darkred]Thank you, Manic- you are [i]so [/i]right.[/color][/size][/b]
[b][size=2][color=#8b0000][/color][/size][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]What have I done? I became an advocate at the local battered women's shelter (advocating for abused women and their children). [/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]I worked with the 3 major Law Enforcement Agencies in this area and worked directly with the Criminal Justice Intervention Program both inside and out of the courtroom.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]I became the only advocate there to head up a community education program, and to write the grants necessary to set up support groups for underage victims of violence (teens and stuff). I was the crisis line counselor for quite some time-- which consists of an array of different forms of counseling and advocacy) and I joyfully took the job of Activity Director-- I got to take these beaten down, depressed, isolated women out for a break from all the crap they dealt with and treat them to a movie or take them bowling, etc... just a few hours of relief from their pain... and I know firsthand how something little like going to a movie can make a huge difference in a life like that.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]I actively participate in Take Back The Night ralleys and other anti-crime ralleys.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]My friends and I all organize fund-raising benefits for crime victims and awareness groups (to educate the public).[/color][/b]

[b][color=#8b0000]I have petitioned for countless things to make my community safer (for instance, better lighting at night and emergency lights that will call police aide at the push of a button-- both of which the city finally took action on).[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]I have gone in to schools to speak to children about violence and about sexual assault and to mentor kids that were "at risk" (as I was when I was little) in strings... teach them how to play violin, viola, and 'cello--that kind of thing. [/color][/b]
[b][color=darkred][/color][/b]
[b][color=darkred](UUUgh... I know there's more, but I am just drinking my morning coffee as I type this, so my brain isn't alert yet...)[/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000][/color][/b]
[b][color=#8b0000]Basically, I do what I can... and it frustrates me to know that it's not enough, but hey-- at least I'm freakin' trying.[/color][/b]

[b][color=#8b0000]What can you do? Start by accepting that there's a problem in every community and find ways to get involved... whether it's with the kids or with the victims of violence or whatever.[/color][/b]

[b][color=#8b0000]Go to your local Law Enforcement center, battered women's shelter, or sexual assault crisis center, and tell them that you want to help-- I'm sure they can find some way for you to make a difference.[/color][/b]

[b][color=darkred]And find others in your community that want to make a difference. It's always good to have someone to bounce ideas off when you are working for the same goal.[/color][/b]

[b][color=navy][/color][/b]