Another School Massacre

[Baron Samedi]

[SIZE=1]The question is, why?[/SIZE]

[quote=Ninemsn News][B]Ten die in US shooting rampage
21:44 AEDT Tue Mar 22 2005[/B]

[B]AP[/B] - A teenage boy went on a shooting rampage on a US Indian reservation and killed 10 people, including his grandparents, seven victims at his high school and then himself.

Traumatised witnesses said the teenager was "grinning and waving" as he fired. As many as 15 people were wounded.

It was the worst school shooting in the United States since the Columbine massacre in Colorado in 1999.

Terrified students sheltered under desks and pleaded with the young gunman to stop.

"You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?" Sondra Hegstrom said using the first name of the shooter.

The dead suspect, whose full name has not been released, fatally shot his grandparents at their home on the reservation. He then moved on to the nearby Red Lake High School.

Six students, including the gunman, were killed at the school, along with a teacher and a security guard, FBI spokesman Paul McCabe said at a news conference in Minneapolis.

Hegstrom described how the gunman smiled and gestured at one student and then swivelled to shoot someone else.

"I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that's when I hid," she said.

An local official identified the shooter's grandfather as Daryl Lussier, a longtime officer with the Red Lake Police Department. He said Lussier's guns might have been used in the shootings.

The shooter had two handguns and a shotgun.

"After he shot a security guard, he walked down the hallway shooting and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students," said Roman Stately of the Red Lake Fire Department.

Students and a teacher at the scene, Diane Schwanz, said the shooter tried to break down a door to get into a room where some students were.

"I just got on the floor and called the cops," Schwanz said.

"I was still just half believing it."

Ashley Morrison, another student, took refuge in a classroom. With the shooter banging on the door, she dialled her mother on her mobile phone as shot rang out.

"'Mom, he's trying to get in here and I'm scared'," the girl's mother quoted her daughter as saying.

Schwanz was the teacher in that room.

She said, "I just got down on the floor and (said), 'Kids, down on the ground, under the benches!'"

She said she called police on her mobile phone.

All of the dead students were found in one room.

One of them was a boy believed to be the shooter, McCabe said.

He said it was too early to speculate on a motive.

"It will probably take us throughout the night to really put the whole picture together," he said.

It was America's worst school shooting since two students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves on April 20, 1999.

The last fatal school shootings that had involved a student also happened in the state of Minnesota in September 2003, when two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring.

Classmate John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time of the shooting, awaits trial in the case.

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in far northern Minnesota, has about 300 students.

The reservation is about 390km north of Minneapolis.

It is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state.[/quote]

[Bloodseeker]

Waving and smiling... It almost sounds like he thought that he was doing the school a favor by killing these people. He must have picked targets and killed them before killing himself. Why else would he waste time trying to get into one specific room when he could just be firing at random people in the hallway?

[Minako]

It just sickens me when I hear about shootings such as this and Columbine. I just don't understand why someone would want to hurt innocent people and then shoot themselves. Since he shot his grandparents, I would assume that the boy in question had problems at home, and/or even deperession. I sure hope they figure out a motive, because the world needs to know how to prevent shootings such as this from happening again. I remember that after Columbine there were several other school shootings as well. I hope that this isn't a lasting trend. My school has a drill for if "a stranger" would come into school. We all go into the corner, away from the door, turn out the lights, turn down the blinds, the teachers comb the hallway for passers-by (students) and if there are students, they are to pull them into their classroom to hide. What has this world come to?

[LostProphet]

Thats about an hour from where I live.....

[dd protector]

From what i;ve studied in law class and elsewhere this sounds like atuomatism. thats where you get pushed over the edge and your mind simple doesn't know what its doing. its a different form of insanity, but its temporary.
From that article it sounds like the kid jsut got pushed one too many times. I don't personally think he was a planned killer at all. Maybe he was just in such a state that exacting revenge was all he could think about.

Thats what i think anyways.

[elfpirate]

[b]I was just going off about this in the "Lots of Killing" thread.[/b]

[b]This shooting/massacre happened in my little community of Red Lake (the aforementioned reservation). I couldn't go to ER last night (and I REALLY needed to) because it was entirely filled with the victims of that shooting. [/b]

[b]And my mom, who is an RN at the hospital here was busting her *** all night last night because so many of her colleagues and support staff were busy as hell with those victims.[/b]

[b]Eight are confirmed dead at this time, and several more are not expected to make it.[/b]

[b]Now our community is [i]flooded[/i] with national media... grrrr. Where were they several months ago when friends of mine and my family were being brutally murdered? Oh, right-- they weren't murdered inside the school, so it doesn't matter to anyone else, right?[/b]

[b]When I said, a few days ago that violence is on the rise, I wasn't just talking out of my arse. It has nothing to do with the media coverage.[/b]

[b]Red Lake and this whole area in general has always been violent, but over the last several years, the violence all around here has grown in both the frequency of occurances and in the intensity of the violences committed.[/b]

[b]So how about a moment of silence or prayer from everyone that reads this for the victims and their families?[/b]

[color=darkred]edit: I just found out that I knew the shooter and some of the victims...nice.[/color]

[Xanadu]

Wow, that happened today and I didn't even know about it... Man, elfpirate, that's gotta suck pretty bad... to actually know some of the victims... Ouch...

Frankly, it sickens me that somone can get ahold of a gun and simply blow away 15 people... I'm frankly a stranger to any such brutal, sensless murders... The last school shooting in my province was was a few years back, when a French-Canadian anti-feminist went into a Montreal woman's collage and killed 17 people (12 of whom had masters degrees in various physics) He killed himself, and in his hand was a list of 20 people who he tried to kill. It's one of the worst school shootings in North American history. It is so disgusting that this man hated women so much he would go to the extremes of killing them, especially since they had so much to live for, makes me think just how sadistic and deranged the human mind can become.

I hear this problem is alot worse in the US, and I find myself perplexed at just how paranoid (If not rightly so.) that your entire country is, that they would actually have a "In case of deranged person with a gun, smash glass" Type of thing, it sickens me, frankly.

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]I read in a different article that he was a Neo-Nazi.

And it's stupid to commit suicide, but dragging other along with you on your ride to hell is just retarded. That kid ... I can't express my anger towards him in mere words. Yes, his life was extremely hard, but he has deeper issues than just that.[/SIZE]

[moonlightshadow]

I don't really know much about this shooting. But it is a very serious issue I think everyone should talk about. I mean the shooting a Columbian was a seroius issue and caused so many people problem emotionally. It kind of makes you think what goes through a person's mind when they pull the trigger? i mean i Columbian the boys went out to school with a gun because of bullying. Was that this shooters motive? I really feel sorry for this guy, something had to have been wrong with him. Depression? Even though he had a choice to pull the trigger. he choose wrong. I give my deepest sympathy to the victims families and friends of this shooting and anyothers. :animeangr What could drive a person that far? It's scary. You hear it on the news, 'adult shootings' but you don't think of the youth of the nation. It's a messed up world we live in. But we just have to hang on and look for the best of the worse :(

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b]I was just going off about this in the "Lots of Killing" thread.[/b]

[b]This shooting/massacre happened in my little community of Red Lake (the aforementioned reservation). I couldn't go to ER last night (and I REALLY needed to) because it was entirely filled with the victims of that shooting. [/b]

[b]And my mom, who is an RN at the hospital here was busting her *** all night last night because so many of her colleagues and support staff were busy as hell with those victims.[/b]

[b]Eight are confirmed dead at this time, and several more are not expected to make it.[/b]

[b]Now our community is [i]flooded[/i] with national media... grrrr. Where were they several months ago when friends of mine and my family were being brutally murdered? Oh, right-- they weren't murdered inside the school, so it doesn't matter to anyone else, right?[/b]

[b]When I said, a few days ago that violence is on the rise, I wasn't just talking out of my arse. It has nothing to do with the media coverage.[/b]

[b]Red Lake and this whole area in general has always been violent, but over the last several years, the violence all around here has grown in both the frequency of occurances and in the intensity of the violences committed.[/b]

[b]So how about a moment of silence or prayer from everyone that reads this for the victims and their families?[/b]

[color=darkred]edit: I just found out that I knew the shooter and some of the victims...nice.[/color][/QUOTE]

This is really horrible. I'm sad to hear about the Red Lake Incident, it seems like more school killings are happening even in smaller towns and not big cities like los angeles, manhattan etc. You think that just cause your in a rural area that you could be safe but that is not always the case. I can't believe a 15 year old did it, he probably had serious mental illnesses and just snapped when he got into a fight with his grandparents since he shot them too. I hope people learn from this trajedy.

[Missa]

My deepest sympathies Elfpirate. That is really terrible, and I am very, very sorry :(

I wanted to say something about mental illness, and how if we are ever going fix this world we need to stop hating each other...But words are eluding me at the moment, I guess because my mind is still reeling.

Whoever you are God, please help us all.

Blessings and love to all my beautiful people ;)

[drive_monster]

I am so sorry for everyone that was there and had to go through that horror...

It's such a waste of human life, it's a damn shame. My question is how? How could anyone do something like this to another human being...?

This is not an excuse by any means whatsoever, but we don't know how far this boy was pushed... mabye the community did this to itself...

[Guest Alchemist]

[QUOTE=drive_monster]I am so sorry for everyone that was there and had to go through that horror...

It's such a waste of human life, it's a damn shame. My question is how? How could anyone do something like this to another human being...?

This is not an excuse by any means whatsoever, but we don't know how far this boy was pushed... mabye the community did this to itself...[/QUOTE]

My question is what drove him to do that? did he have anti-social behavior? I do think that humans could do such things against each other but why wasted on obscere go after the peope that did it to you, and leave the uninvolved out.

Wasted anger.

But I honstly think that people can do such acts. It bugs me when people go i cant believe that happen, look around at our society.
That guy did more than damage himself, he wrecked a whole community.
And people are going to blame videogames and TV for it.

My question is what drove him to do that? did he have anti-social behavior? I do think that humans could do such things against each other but why wasted on obscere go after the peope that did it to you, and leave the uninvolved out.

Wasted anger.

But I honstly think that people can do such acts. It bugs me when people go i cant believe that happen, look around at our society.
That guy did more than damage himself, he wrecked a whole community.
And people are going to blame videogames and TV for it.
Elphirite give my condolences.

Damn sorry about the doble post i thought i pressed edit. sorry :animecry:

[COLOR=DarkRed]Edit: I combined your double post. Please do not double post. If you accidently did it you could have copied the double post, deleted it, then pasted it into your first post by using the 'edit' button. Please be more careful about the double posting. -Panda[/COLOR]

[Doc]

[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]I had heard about this earlier this morning, and to log on here and see that is just heart breaking. This was a tragic loss of many lives. I offer my condolences to the familys and friends of the victums, even though there isn't much I can do to help.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]I am also deeply disheartened by the fact that Elfpirate knew some of them, and Elf's loss is on a personal level.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=darkslategray]PS.Alchemist, in the edit options, there is a "Delete this Post" option. try that. ^_^[/color][/size][/font]

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=blue]I was going a little insane listening to audio lectures for hours on end, so I turned on the TV and saw this show on Fox called [B]A Current Affair[/B]. They mentioned this incident, but moved on to a more grotesque story about jealously and insanity.

Basically, they were talking about how this girl was getting popular, and her new friend from school had "issues." She announced to everyone that she was going to kill the girl, and everyone just took it as a joke. But the same day, she up and killed her, and she enlisted her boyfriend to help with the beatdown, and then enlisted some other kid for the dismembering. O_O

I think kids are just more socially irritated what with the increasing amounts of free times they have these days. They have more time to moan over trivialities like social positions. Don't try and pull that BS over me: they don't have things harder - hell, it's been getting easier, and it has been getting easier even before I started going to school.

Anyway, what I liked best about the show was how they said "DevianART" is a site for socially-troubled teens or something to that effect. XD[/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[b]I thank all of you that have offered your condolences, but I have to say that the shooter also deserves sympathy and forgiveness. [/b]

[b]Yes, he was troubled... and he had a damned hard life... and yes, he did hang out with a crowd of neo-nazis, but what else can you do when it's the only crowd that is willing to accept you... he had no father (lost to suicide) and his mother was in long-term care for serious injuries. [/b]

[b]He was forced to live with his grandparents, and he was an extremely lonely, confused, and SWEET young man. He was a hurting child, and though his actions were atrocious and he wrought havoc and heartache all throughout this community, I mourn for him as much as I do for the rest of the victims...[/b]

[b]May their families find strength and comfort and healing... and may the dead rest in peace.[/b]

[b]AND--may the anger become sympathy and forgiveness for this child.[/b]

[Panda]

I am sending my thoughts and prayers to all those in your community elfpirate. I know what happends when the media decends upon a small town for a school shooting. It happened in my little hometown too. Being a small community you end up knowing everyone involved. My thoughts are with you too.

It really is a scary world we live in. Kids act out, sometimes they say things like "That guy is a jerk. I could just strangle him!" Is that a threat? Are they serious? Are they joking? It's getting more and more difficult to tell who is a real threat and who is just blowing off steam.

Sad, very sad indeed.

[moonlightshadow]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b]I thank all of you that have offered your condolences, but I have to say that the shooter also deserves sympathy and forgiveness. [/b]

[b]Yes, he was troubled... and he had a damned hard life... and yes, he did hang out with a crowd of neo-nazis, but what else can you do when it's the only crowd that is willing to accept you... he had no father (lost to suicide) and his mother was in long-term care for serious injuries. [/b]

[b]He was forced to live with his grandparents, and he was an extremely lonely, confused, and SWEET young man. He was a hurting child, and though his actions were atrocious and he wrought havoc and heartache all throughout this community, I mourn for him as much as I do for the rest of the victims...[/b]

[b]May their families find strength and comfort and healing... and may the dead rest in peace.[/b]

[b]AND--may the anger become sympathy and forgiveness for this child.[/b][/QUOTE]

I Agree with you. True his life definatly sucked, it probably seemed like a good idea to him. But i can't figure out how the thought of shooting someone runs through someones thoughts? I guess when your life has been painted with suffering and pain you lose it. I think would should give some sympathy to the shooter. :( It's the least anyone can do. But remorse especially to the victims and families. This has to be hard. School's just say "if you know someone who possess a gun or any weapon and you know they plan to use it...tell someone". Do they not understand how hard it is? And why is it left to the student or teenager to tell? Why not an adult? Did anyone know about this guy's problem? We need to speak more about this. It can be a really confusing subject. People like that need help. But it's hard to see the true problem behind there closed eye's...or maybe we need to open our eye's? This was a really sad situation. :bawl:

[elfpirate]

[quote name='moonlightshadow'] But it's hard to see the true problem behind there closed eye's...or maybe we need to open our eye's?[/quote]
[b]I truly believe it's the latter.[/b]

[b]The reason I believe that is because I've come from a hard life-- harder than a lot of people, I've come to realise-- [/b]

[b]When I'm speaking about things like my past, I forget sometimes that I didn't live like other people and I catch the look of horror on the face of my listener like a bat to the head.[/b]

[b]People's eyes ARE shut... unless they've been through some of this stuff.[/b]

[b]I truly struggle with the idea of opening people's eyes. When I meet someone who is obviously naive to the horrors of the world, a deep, poisonous envy starts creeping through my heart... but at the same time, I would do anything to protect that person's innocence.[/b]

[b]I'm not sure what the solution is. I would like for it to be easier to share our experiences with one another, so that people don't have to bottle things up until they explode and commit an atrocity like the one here, but I'm not sure how you open people's eyes without destroying their innocence... that's a conundrum I've been faced with for way too many years...[/b]

[moonlightshadow]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b]I truly believe it's the latter.[/b]

[b]The reason I believe that is because I've come from a hard life-- harder than a lot of people, I've come to realise-- [/b]

[b]When I'm speaking about things like my past, I forget sometimes that I didn't live like other people and I catch the look of horror on the face of my listener like a bat to the head.[/b]

[b]People's eyes ARE shut... unless they've been through some of this stuff.[/b]

[b]I truly struggle with the idea of opening people's eyes. When I meet someone who is obviously naive to the horrors of the world, a deep, poisonous envy starts creeping through my heart... but at the same time, I would do anything to protect that person's innocence.[/b]

[b]I'm not sure what the solution is. I would like for it to be easier to share our experiences with one another, so that people don't have to bottle things up until they explode and commit an atrocity like the one here, but I'm not sure how you open people's eyes without destroying their innocence... that's a conundrum I've been faced with for way too many years...[/b][/QUOTE]

:animeshy: I don't usually talk about to peple because...well i don't like to. But this is an important matter. I'm like you pretty much i had a rough time. I felt worthless and thought of certain things. But when people would ask me about it i would get angry. People would act like i was psychotic. Always bothering me about it and bringing it up (as if i want to remember) But i got into Art, music, and literature adn i felt better. You can't really open anyones heart. Everyone thinks differently and believes different things. It's like telling an atheist, God is real. You can't really open there eyes or mind. But we can try...i don't know matbe i'm just babbing on about nothing but thats just what i think. :(

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I have to admit the more I read about what happened, much of it coming from elfpirate, I do feel quite sorry for the young man at the centre of the shooting. I've seen the devastating effects such loneliness can cause in a person firsthand, and I guess this was just the final outcome of that misery. My heart-felt condolences go out to the families of the victims, the remaining family of the shooter and the people of the community. Hopefully with time the wounds of this tragedy can be healed, and perhaps may it serve as a deterrent to prevent other people from performing similar acts.[/SIZE]

[drive_monster]

[quote name='Kane][SIZE=1']... Hopefully with time the wounds of this tragedy can be healed, and perhaps may it serve as a deterrent to prevent other people from performing similar acts.[/SIZE][/quote]
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]I wish this was the case...

One of my friends at school got expelled today for threatening to shoot a whole long list of people... he even described what part of the body he was gonna shoot... He, too, is in a similar case as this boy. People make fun of him on a daily basis, girls cry when they get partnered with him at school(I'm afraid that wasn't a joke), and from what he tells me, his parents are really harsh on him...

I'm feeling pretty uneasy about the whole thing right now. I [B]really[/B] hope he was just blowing off steam, and doesn't actually try to go through with it... And it's such a shame that he got expelled from my school, since it is a school for the arts, and he was such a good piano player...

The people at my school were celebrating when they found out he was expelled, just because they didn't like him... some people know how to disgrace themselves.[/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=drive_monster][color=darkslateblue] People make fun of him on a daily basis, girls cry when they get partnered with him at school(I'm afraid that wasn't a joke), and from what he tells me, his parents are really harsh on him...

And it's such a shame that he got expelled from my school, since it is a school for the arts, and he was such a good piano player...

The people at my school were celebrating when they found out he was expelled, just because they didn't like him... some people know how to disgrace themselves.[/color][/QUOTE]
[b]The way that people treat one another fills me with sorrow. [/b]

[b] Instead of seeing this boy as a talented young musician from a difficult home life, they see him as a target for their cruelty and insults ...and consistently reject him. [/b]

[b]And then, if something were to happen, the world will blame Marylin Manson or videogames or anything else they can pull out of their ***es, and not the inhuman treatment the boy has endured for who knows how long...[/b]

[b]Those celebrating freakin' idiots should be expelled, as well --for their acts of cruelty toward the kid.[/b]

[moonlightshadow]

I have a question: Why is it when bad things happen people blame the media? Did the media go out and say "Go kill someone like the game or movie did!". No, That's why there are rating systems on games, it is the parents responsibilty to know what there kid is seeing, and playing. It is in the person's mind because in the game a character will kill someone and get away with it, but in the really world...busted. It all comes down to the person's mind and how far they take it. But to blame games, t.v., and other things is just using a handy-cap for a closer parking space (don't ask where that came from) :animestun really weird world we live in.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I agree that everybody blames the media, when everything starts in the community and at home. This boy, for instance, had a hard time at school, and at home. Ahem, don'tcha think that might be the problem, and not the media.

Everything else teens are doing - killings, sex, drugs, etc., are all blamed on the media, but does anyone ever take notice to how their parents are, or their home life? Sometimes, in suburban communities (like mine, with the town next door, and all their snotty rich kids), it's the parents who blame the media, because they don't want to take responsibility for not taking adequate care of their kids! Finger pointing.

drive_monster was also saying how when that kid got expeleld, everybody was cheering. I have a similar story.

Years ago, when I was in seventh grade, there was a kid in eighth grade, who killed himself by hanging himself. And you know what? The next day on the bus, kids were [i]glad[/i] that he was dead - they didn't care at all. He had been depressed for a long time - probably because of those kids.

I mean, they also made fun of a few muslims at our school (this was way back when, in freaking [b]middle[/b] school) after the 9/11 attacks, and I've said this in a couple other thread, kids in my grade use to make derogatory comments toward Asians, one kid toward hispanics, and a series of graffitti with derogatory asian names and swastikas. They're the ruthless people that make our world a ****** place.

There was another kid I was just thinking of. He moved here from Germany when he was in 8th grade, and he use to be someone that got picked on all the time on the bus, because he was learning english. He used to be really scrawny and I remember he always wore flannel shirts. And then, last year, when I got to high school, he wore lots of black & chains, smoked cigarettes, pot, crack for a while, etc. And while he certainly could have done all this for no reason, or an unrelated reason, but this made me wonder if he did it to be cool or "fit in," because now, well, he's one of the most popular kids in school, and everybody likes him.


And one last rant from me, on a personal note, I can see why this kid did what he did. Like I said, kids are ruthless (who will eventually become evil, ruthless adults). No one makes fun of me, per se, but it's more like they ignore me completely. It's driven me to the edge of sanity at times and sent me down and back through the rabbit hole a few times (wow that's a crappy metaphor). High school is the worst four years of your life. And it pisses me off that everybody lied to me and said I'd have a great time. *screams*[/color]