Is suicide really selfish?

[Gelgoog Pilot]

[quote name='x kakashi x']any suicide could be considered selfish or selfless, it depends on the POV you take on the situation, most people do believe that suicide is for the persons benefit and no one elses, and it usually is, life gets to hard and they give up, but some people's suicides contribute to a greater cause without even knowing, now this isn't quite "selfless" since its not happening on purpose, but like I said before, suicide, or the death of someone close to you, often brings people together, it teaches them not to take things for granted, and to love the people in their lives, even if you see them everyday, I don't believe that someone would kill themselves for this sole purpose, but when options are limited, it just seems to be the way to go[/quote]


You have a point that it may bring people together and the reason it isn't considered selfless is this: The person when they killed themself didn't think " I'll die letting everyone come together for the greater good" They died more likey thinking " I'll end my suffering once and for all."

Again people are saying suicide can be slefless without giving a situation to back it up...

[Kamuro]

chances are, you won't get an answer, I get what your saying, but its sort of contradictory to say that suicide is selfish, the whole basis of suicide is that life is just to hard, you hate yourself, and the people around you, you don't like you, your disappointed for one reason or another in yourself, so why would you do something for yourself? you've made so many other previous attempts to be happy, why do this for that same reason? I guess if you look at it that way suicide is neither selfish nor selfless

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]Japan, remember that not everybody has someone who cares about them. There are truly some people out there who [b]nobody gives a **** about[/b]. It's sad, and it's horrible, but it's true. When these people look around, they see no reason to live. They don't feel like they can improve their lives, get away from their miserable existence. And nobody cares. You cannot help but feel for these kinds of people; and you cannot denounce them as being selfish. They truly feel that they have no other alternative. Rather, isn't it more selfish of you in this case to sweep aside their woes and proclaim that they just need to 'keep their chin up'? It's disregarding the situation that some people find themselves in.
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I would agree with you. Quite truthfully the first person to love me unconditionally was my friend who took me down to the hospital. I didn't even know that she cared about me as she was proably the only one.

Since then I have gained true friends and although she's not human, my dog loves me unconditionally. I use to think it strange how people could love their pets so much, but now I understand. Life is so much easier when you have people to talk to when you feel down or have had a really bad day. And taking care of my dog really brings to home how important it is I be there to take care of her.

[quote name='Pumpkin][SIZE=1][FONT=Tahoma]Baron pretty much summed up what I was about to say. There are different reasons and not everyone has someone they care about. I do think there are horrible reasons to committing suicide (not like its a good thing to begin with) like taking revenge on people or killing yourself because you can't be with someone. If that person is happy, you should move on with your life. Most the time when your trying to commit suicide you don't think of the consequences and the impact of your loss will have on other's lives. My x-boyfriend's dad shot himself when he was only 14, a time when every guy needs a dad to talk to. The fact that he left at such an important time, its selfish. Yes, but can you hate someone for that? I think its wrong to just decide that that person must be selfish because they couldnt deal. Obviously that person needed help and it wasn't offered to them. Killing yourself for revenge though is the worst thing you can do, to purposely inflict pain. If that person isnt thinking about the consequences, its not being selfish its just pure ignorance. I hope that made some sense. [/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

I kind of feel the same way. I think that everyone has their breaking point. A point where on some level they are no longer able to cope. I know that there are others who have suffered far worse than I did and I can't imagine how they continue living each and every day.

I would say that ignorance describes it quite well. At that time I really didn't think or know there was another solution. So what you say makes perfect sense to me.

[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]I don't think this topic wanted to know if seflishness was a bad thing...or good thing. It wanted to know if suicide in your opinion is a selfish act. I think it is. You are only thinking of how miserable YOU are and how unhappy YOU make others feel and how worthless YOU must be. these thoughts are in nature selfishness...you're simply looking for a way out of a temporary problem. Yes life is absolute hell for some, that doesn't mean you should end your life.
[/QUOTE]

hmmmm.....I guess another way to put it would be to ask if the desire to end suffering was selfish. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be hurt. And as a child after being tormented for so many years I certainly couldn't see it as a temporary problem at that time. I often wonder how many others out there are in simular situations. On some level I would agree with what many people have said. There are situations where suicide is completely selfish. But I also still think the desire to be free of suffering isn't.

[MissWem]

[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]I don't think this topic wanted to know if seflishness was a bad thing...or good thing. It wanted to know if suicide in your opinion is a selfish act. I think it is. You are only thinking of how miserable YOU are and how unhappy YOU make others feel and how worthless YOU must be. these thoughts are in nature selfishness...you're simply looking for a way out of a temporary problem. Yes life is absolute hell for some, that doesn't mean you should end your life.

Ahhh I'm going to stop before I start to get fired up...I'm big against the whole suicide stuff...probably since I know several people who have committed it and several others who even now are thinking of it.
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[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]I agree fully, then partly, then again for me it becomes such a grey area when I think about my friend who attempted it last year. I could also take it as being selfish for wanting to keep her here in life when she's in such emotional pain it causes her to hurt physically.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]
I myself have I'll admit it. At times whent the stress is at it's worst I'll think of it as the easiest way out. Thankfully I have people who can pull me out of depressions in a heart beat. Besides that I also have an issue with the pain heh...I'll admit it I could stand having steel pins in my leg for six months but to cut myself...oh hell no...
[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]And you're lucky to have people around to look out for you, which I'm sure you realize, since there are many that do not seem to have that luxury/privilege. Cutting is easy though, not that I have, but considering it seriously is about as close as I want to get.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]
I actually want to know something if anyone would be so kind...show me an example of a selfless act of suicide...I want to understand better where some of you are coming from. As of right now I can't imagine a selfless one...and I don't consider throwing yourself infront of a train or something to save a loved one and act of suicide...that's an act of love. Of transending the instinct of self-preservation.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]That specific example is what made me want to reply since my suicidal friend and I had a discussion about such a scenario. However she put a real mean twist to it, where in saving me from the oncoming train she can have the opportunity of killing herself at the sametime.

Thank something that the chances of that happening is slim to none. How would one live with the knowledge that their friend sacrificed themselves for you as an act of love but at the sametime wanted to die anyhow?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Kamuro]

well, first off, the issue of cutting, I think its taken to seriously, now maybe thats just the way I see it, because I use to cut, all the time, and its an addiction just like any other, I'm not ashamed nor proud of this previous action, I take responsibility for the mistakes I made, and realized that the situation I was in, was my own fault, I would be sad because I was lonely, but didn't even realize I was pushing the people who cared for me the most away from me, cutting made me feel better, and if you havn't done it, then I don't expect for you to understand, but I trust the people in these forums enough to share this with them, and expect not to be judged on mistakes I've made in my life

second, suicide is a very complicated thing to understand, theres so many things to take in consideration, its almost impossible to make a distinction between selfish or selfless, or even right or wrong, the bible says its wrong, but since i was born I've been living life on my own terms, not by those previously written by prophets of god, and that is the way I choose to things, its a matter of opinion

[Gelgoog Pilot]

[QUOTE=SunfallE]

hmmmm.....I guess another way to put it would be to ask if the desire to end suffering was selfish. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be hurt. And as a child after being tormented for so many years I certainly couldn't see it as a temporary problem at that time. I often wonder how many others out there are in simular situations. On some level I would agree with what many people have said. There are situations where suicide is completely selfish. But I also still think the desire to be free of suffering isn't.[/QUOTE]

Well I agree with you there. There are ways that it can be totally free from any selfish thoughts, just pure want for the pain to stop, to feel at ease. I suppose for that it depends on what you belive will happen after death, which I won't get into. I'm still a little gray on the selfless one...you can try and make it sound really Idealistic and say they felt they needed to do it to try and shed light on others pain...but I don't think at that time they were actually thinking about that.

[QUOTE=DerelictDestiny]

That specific example is what made me want to reply since my suicidal friend and I had a discussion about such a scenario. However she put a real mean twist to it, where in saving me from the oncoming train she can have the opportunity of killing herself at the sametime.

Thank something that the chances of that happening is slim to none. How would one live with the knowledge that their friend sacrificed themselves for you as an act of love but at the sametime wanted to die anyhow?
[/QUOTE]

I think I should have worded that better or..you just misunderstood me...When I used that example I mean to say that in any way shape or form, it has nothing to do with suicide. I know what you're saying " Killing two birds with one stone" so to speak. It's just not the way I see it. I feel that if you're actually willing to do that for someone you love, then you would rather see them live, not that you somewhat want to die, if you love them you'd want to be with them, but their saftely just comes before yours. I don't know if I just did some serious repitition there but, it's a complicated thought and I'm not the best at expressing it. :animestun

[MissWem]

[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]
I think I should have worded that better or..you just misunderstood me...When I used that example I mean to say that in any way shape or form, it has nothing to do with suicide. I know what you're saying " Killing two birds with one stone" so to speak. It's just not the way I see it. I feel that if you're actually willing to do that for someone you love, then you would rather see them live, not that you somewhat want to die, if you love them you'd want to be with them, but their saftely just comes before yours. I don't know if I just did some serious repitition there but, it's a complicated thought and I'm not the best at expressing it. :animestun[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]It's alright. I fully got you the first time. I was just reminded by your example of the selfless act of love to what my friend did to the concept. I understand the way you intended it was not suicide. However my friend was using as the opportunity for suicide, as you put it "killing two birds with one stone"

I still get so stupified everytime I think that she would do that.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Boo][color=gray][size=1]
This could be because I mostly lay a connection between suicide and gothic people (which I don't like, mainly for fun) XD. But really, I haven't had any cases of suicide in my social circle. There were some that said they were going to, but never did it (although some gothics still cut open their wrists).
[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

I've heard about gothics cutting their wrists and such, but I've heard so many wacky things about what gothic people are really like I've wondered just how much I've heard is real and how much is just werid rumors.

[QUOTE=Gelgoog Pilot]Well I agree with you there. There are ways that it can be totally free from any selfish thoughts, just pure want for the pain to stop, to feel at ease. I suppose for that it depends on what you belive will happen after death, which I won't get into. I'm still a little gray on the selfless one...you can try and make it sound really Idealistic and say they felt they needed to do it to try and shed light on others pain...but I don't think at that time they were actually thinking about that.
[/QUOTE]

hmmm... after death huh, well back then I actually thought my mother was correct and that I was possesed. I believed that on some level I belonged in Hell. Now I don't know what I believe about after death. I only know that I no longer believe what she told me. I'm still working on what I believe in that respect. :animesmil

As for commiting suicide to help other's pain, well I can honestly say I was so miserable that I couldn't see beyond my own at that time.

[COLOR=DarkGreen]Now I would also like to thank everyone who took the time to read this thread and also to those who replied to it. I've long since gotten over that time in my life, but as I mentioned before I've always wanted the chance to talk about it, to further explore what people felt. It's been very refreshing to talk with so many people who although their views may differ from mine are open minded enough to be accepting of others with different views. So Thankyou! :D [/COLOR]

[ForgottenRaider]

Interesting topic. I have been in the situation where a close friend asked me for one reason for him to continue to live. After six months of seeking help for him and pushing him to continue I was out, simply stuck for words. Two hours later he killed himself. It was not a fun day for me.

Though thinking about it, and this could just be a way of helping deal with the event in my mind(?), I tried to work out if it was infact myself and the people around him that were the selfish ones. Was it selfish of his parents to put him in the situation and expect him to deal with it? Was I selfish forcing him to continue against his will?

I came to the conclusion that it was, in this case. So I think the blame, if any, can go to any one depending on the situation and the resulting event can seem selfish or warrented.

So I would have to say I'll sit on the fence on this one, in some cases it is, others it isn't.