Internet Piracy Poll

[Final Remix]

[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Comic Sans MS]I'm putting up this poll for a presentation in my Computer class for college. My topic is Piracay and moral issues (if any)
Please feel free to help me out, and help me gather data.
If you don't want to post, that's fine. Voting's good too. However, if you are going to post, follow OB rules of nice, full supported opinions simply because it'll help back up whatever we/you are saying. If quoted, I will give credit where credit's due.

Thanks, and happy voting.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Nuts, didn't realize "preview poll" would just post it real quick... It's stuck on Public as far as I can tell...whomever knows how to fix this, or if a mod can, help. lol. thanks

[Godelsensei]

Stealing is completely immoral and unjustified, but when it's so damn easy to do so, very few people can help themselves. Consequentially, they like to make excuses for it, warping it around to make it seem like they're doing the right thing: "Without the internet, they wouldn't have publicity!" "I'm opening up the world to different kinds of music!" "lolz0rs britny want rule da world ne way!111!!!!11"

So, I know it's bad of me to download gigs upon gigs of illegal material, everything from movies, to music, to games, but its just being there, for the grabbing, makes it seem entirely innocuous to do so.

It's like having a regular store located next to one that just sort of chucks the same products at you and doesn't care if you pay or not. People will get suspicious, but nobody's going to go to the first store.

[Kamuro]

internet piracy is a mixed issue, people will say its wrong and then go and contradict themselves by downloading music, games, etc and trying to justify it, but even so, no matter the terms of the theft, it is still theft. and it gets worse and worse everyday, even firewall and protective programs alike can't stop people from stealing things from the internet, one of the biggest issues in america is identity theft, which is adequate proof that people are becoming more advanced and technology just isn't keeping up, some people make a living, a rather good one, just stealing things from the internet and selling them, and if you ask me, we've reached a pretty bad low when one of the most profitable businesses in the world is to steal things and not even acknowledge the person who created it

[SunfallE]

In general I believe that it's completely wrong. It's easy to justify stealing from others but when you are the one being stolen from then it's not so easy to justify. So I think one shouldn't do it at all. I have only one exception where I wonder why they get upset that people download the music, game, or whatever the item may be. And that's where what you want is no longer available on the market to buy legally. How many times have you heard a song that you adore and yet when you go to buy it you find that there are no more tapes, cd's or whatever being made? I find it hard to not download in that situation as I was willing to pay for it and found that I couldn't.

In only one case was I able to contact the person who produced the music to get permission to copy a friend's cd or to download the music since I couldn't get a copy anymore. Most requests never get answered so it can be very frustrating to stay on the legal side of this issue.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I have always thought of Interenet Piracy to be stealing, just because you don't see the person you're stealing from doesn't make it right, nor does coming up with a stupid excuse for it after you've been caught.

I mean would you go to your local shop and steal a bottle of Coke ? Would you go into your local video store and take a wrapped DVD ? Stealing is stealing and one cannot avoid the moral degredation that comes with it, and people who steal whether that be over the Internet, or in real-life are called thieves. [/SIZE]

[Semjaza]

I download quite a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be downloading. I admit to it and I can't really justify it. I know a lot of people, particularly with music, think of themselves as some sort of "Robin Hood" type figure that's sticking it to "the man" (aka the RIAA). I don't know how that justifies or explains anything. Infact, it makes next to no sense in the scheme of things.

However, I have to say that because of MP3s I get to listen to and try so many things I otherwise would have no idea about. I buy so many more CDs now because I am able to check out a variety of bands and albums thanks to the internet. There is only so much you can find out about thanks to Clear Channel's dominance of the radio in this country. Even places like iTunes don't have a lot of what I want to check out.

I guess it's a double edged sword though, because I know a lot of people are content with their internet downloads and that's the end of it. Personally, I like having something tangible. I'm not content with a downloaded file, I like to own the physical product. I have hundreds of albums right now (I'd guess somewhere around 800... CDs, vinyls, cassettes) and I would guess that at least half of them were purchased because I got to hear the album ahead of time. Some things I have on my computer I never wind up buying, but I wind up deleting it because it wasn't for me.

If the RIAA was smart, they'd take advantage of the internet instead of labeling it some sort of thief-ridden abyss. Scare tactics aren't really the answer... but then again I doubt they'll ever be happy. Sales are up and they're still going nuts about things.

I have some software I shouldn't have as well, but who can afford some of these programs as a student? Full version software is ridiculously expensive. I don't know how anyone can teach themselves how to use a program in a 30 day trial. Certainly not well enough to make any sort of career based decisions. My philosophy on this is simply that as soon as I make any money off of these programs, I'll buy them. I've yet to. They really should all just offer free Personal Learning Editions like Alias has with Maya.

In any case, it's more "unethical" than immoral, as far as I'm concerned. Neither is really any better than the other, though.

[Decadence]

Ahh, oops for your poll subtract a vote for yes and put it to no, I thought it said privacy not piracy.

[Missa]

Stealing is stealing. I've heard some argue that it's okay to download music from the internet, because the artist is filthy rich and their not. While that may be true, the artist still earned that money. I know that if I was I'd want my money, [B]all of it.[/B] [I]I worked for it gosh darnit.[/I] Hey, wouldn't you?

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Yeah, I download music. Not massive amounts of it, but I do. Am I justified? I don't know. I'm not going to buy their CD anyway, because I don't know enough of their music, and maybe I only like one or two of their songs. Or maybe I just wouldn't buy it anyway, and make do without. Thats my opinion on it. I do buy CD's, but only rarely, so any small amount of downloading I do doesn't make me feel bad.

Also, a rather apt quote for this thread "Music downloading supports artists who perform live."[/size]

[Guest Sean]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I have to admit that I've done my bit at this. I usually download songs to see if I like that band or not, but that isn't a justifiable answer. But seeing someone asks if I've heard of such and such a band, and I haven't, I'll probably try download one or two of there songs, and if I do enjoy it, then when I have money get a CD.

But Internet Piracy isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is when you look at how bands aren't getting all the money they deserve. But alot of bands use these programs, upload there own music, see how many people they get downloading them. New bands profit a lot out of it.

But again, it's stealing, and I contradict myself by saying that you shouldn't, but I do for the pure curiosity from hearing a new band.[/COLOR]

[Dirt]

[b][color=darkgreen]Well, I'm finding it a little odd that there aren't more people responding with somethiing other than "stealing's stealing"...but, oh well.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]I guess I don't have much of a conscience regarding the piracy of something online. It's information, and information should be shared, not sold. That goes for music, too.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]It would be different if you could go into a music store and pick up a free sample of songs in order to let you decide on which bands you like, etc... or if they sent them to you like those damned AOL samples in the mail every month, but they don't. I personally don't have enough money to throw away on a new CD that I end up hating because I didn't have a chance to hear any of it beforehand.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]So--if I want to hear what a particular band sounds like, I really don't thnk about it much before I download some of their songs--I just do it. And, no, I don't feel guilty afterwards.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]Then again, I don't feel guilty after ripping off major corporations either, so maybe I'm just a d**k.:animesigh [/color][/b]

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=blue]I don't fully understand the "it's stealing" argument. While it's obvious who is the stealer is, I don't quite comprehend whom the stuff is being stolen from, and what has been lost/stolen.[/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=blue']I don't fully understand the "it's stealing" argument. While it's obvious who is the stealer is, I don't quite comprehend whom the stuff is being stolen from, and what has been lost/stolen.[/COLOR][/quote]

I guess it's stealing in a more abstract sense. You're not paying for something that has a price tag.
I see it as on the same level of theft as sneaking into a movie/onto a ski lift without paying.

[elfpirate]

[quote name='Dirt][b][color=#006400]Then again, I don't feel guilty after ripping off major corporations either, so maybe I'm just a d**k.:animesigh [/color'][/b][/quote]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=3]lmao... Y[size=2]es, dirt, you are a d**k--but not just because of your lack of guilt--ha ha ha.[/size][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2]Hmmm... internet piracy, eh? Well, I guess it depends on exactly what you're "stealing" when pirating online. If you are plagiarizing something, then I'd say it's wrong, but if you're just downloading songs out of curiosity of a band's talent or sound, then I guess I don't even really consider it stealing.[/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2]"Rob? We never "rob"! We just sort of...borrow a bit from those who can afford it..."[/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2] -Robin Hood :animesmil [/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2]That's pretty much my feeling on the subject...[/size][/font][/b]

[Bloodseeker]

Moral? Definitely not. There's nothing moral about stealing and handing out people's intellectual property.You might even go so far as to say that it breaks one of the ten commandments.

Justified? To an extent. Some media is just too hard to get your hands on, and some media is overpriced. I haven't seen Sailor Moon seasons 1-2 in stores for month, and season 5 was never even liscensed in the US. It may not be legal to download them, but frankly, if I want to see them, I either have to download them or take my chances at getting ripped off by some guy on Ebay. Its not too hard to decide which one is the more desirable route. Same goes with the unedited editions of One Piece and DBZ. If I want to see them truly uncut, the only way to do that is through pirating.

With FLCL, I don't have $90 to blow on less than two and half hours of entertainment. Hell, its difficult enough spending $25 on two hours of entertainment when I could be spending $20 on 20+ hours of entertainment through old yet great games like Soul Calibur 2 and Splinter Cell 2. When you overprice stuff like that, you're just begging for people to take the alternate route by downloading it.

[Dirt]

[quote name='elfpirate] [font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][b]lmao... Y[/b][/size][size=2][b]es, dirt, you are a d**k--but not just because of your lack of guilt--ha ha ha.[/b'][font=Tahoma][/quote][/font][/size][/font][b][size=2][color=darkgreen]Hey, thanx, elfpirate, ya big jerk! :p lol[/color][/size][/b]
[font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][font=Tahoma][QUOTE=elfpirate][/font][b]"Rob? We never "rob"! We just sort of...borrow a bit from those who can afford it..."[/b][/size][/font]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=2]-Robin Hood[/size][/font][/b][/QUOTE][b][size=2][color=darkgreen]You just can't argue with the little fox...[/color][/size][/b]

[quote name='Bloodseeker'] Justified? To an extent. Some media is just too hard to get your hands on, and some media is overpriced. When you overprice stuff like that, you're just begging for people to take the alternate route by downloading it.[/quote][b][size=2][color=darkgreen]I agree with you 100% on that... not all of us have the luxery of being able to afford the things we want/need in life... so we're definitely going to find an alternative route to obtaining it... whether it's downloading something or swiping a roll of toilet paper from the gas station bathroom or whatever...:animeswea [/color][/size][/b]

[AnimeFront]

I don't really see a problem with it, if the artist are truly losing money over this than a lot of artist would have already been out, yet i have never heard a case of any music artist or any artist company going out of buisness. There is nothing wrong with stealing of the internet (hacker side of me) if it is on the internet it is whoever can get to it first. It is the internet, technically it does not exist.

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='Akari_Demon']I don't really see a problem with it, if the artist are truly losing money over this than a lot of artist would have already been out, yet i have never heard a case of any music artist or any artist company going out of buisness. There is nothing wrong with stealing of the internet (hacker side of me) if it is on the internet it is whoever can get to it first. It is the internet, technically it does not exist.[/quote]

So I guess it's cool if I hack into your computer and delete all your files, because they "technically don't exist".

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I used to d/l music. I don't anymore because programs like grokster totally screwed over my computer with spyware, and I'm more afraid of my mom catching me downloading music, really. >_> (It's a big no-no to her). ...I still have most of the mp3 files from the days that I would download songs.

I agree that it's morally wrong, because it's stealing someone's intellectual property. So is piracy moral? No.

But justifiable? Definitely, to an extent. Most of you have said "why waste money on an album when I can preview it before hand?" and I concur. I wish I could have downloaded some of the tracks from Muse's "Absolution" because the $17.00 I shelled out wasn't worth it for the couple tracks I like. On the other hand, I did download "clocks" and "The scientist" by coldplay, and ended up buying the entire CD in Borders, because I loved those songs.

Another thing: most of us are big anime/Japan fans. There are some things that are just downright tough to find for an anime fan. I'm not really sure what DVD encoding for regions is all about, but if it applies, I guess it would make watching an import difficult?

Also, I have tons of downloaded J-pop songs (before I stopped d/ling) because I didn't know where I could buy them, and my mom will never ever let me use her credit card online. When I get my own credit card, I've made a solemn promise to myself to buy the songs/ CDs that I downloaded, because that's only right.

Not trying to take over the topic, but a question I just thought about: I have a couple (like, 3) Anime music videos (where you take images from an anime, put them to music, and make a video) made by anime fans who distribute it on their personal site for free. Where do you stand on that, since the whole kit-kaboodle was put together for free, and given for free, but the images and the music are "technically" stolen (intellectual property rights)? [/color]

[AnimeFront]

[quote name='wrist cutter']So I guess it's cool if I hack into your computer and delete all your files, because they "technically don't exist".[/quote]

If you can than be my guest. It woud be my fault for not taking the proper precautions. But it would be hard to hack my PC I have some nice firewals.

[Baron Samedi]

[quote name='Akari_Demon']If you can than be my guest. It woud be my fault for not taking the proper precautions. But it would be hard to hack my PC I have some nice firewals.[/quote][size=1]*smacks head against a wall*

Dude, he was making a point. wristcutter isn't really going to hack your computer. But your foolish comments about the existence of computer files prompted him to make a [b]very accurate[/b] comment. Just because you cannot physically point to your downloaded mp3s does not mean you haven't stolen the intellectual property of the artist.[/size]

[James]

[quote name='Akari_Demon]I don't really see a problem with it, if the artist are truly losing money over this than a lot of artist would have already been out, yet i have never heard a case of any music artist or any artist company going out of buisness. There is nothing wrong with stealing of the internet (hacker side of me) if it is on the internet it is whoever can get to it first.[b'] It is the internet, technically it does not exist.[/b][/quote]

[color=#D6A204]It doesn't exist? So the design that someone spent dozens of hours on is worthless because it exists only on the Internet?

This only shows that you are unfamiliar with the law (and common sense). Something like an image or a logo can be considered intellectual property. Why is it called "intellectual property"? Because it's not a tangible object.

Things like brands and franchises are all important intellecutal property. Companies would not exist without them. This is why some companies pay millions of dollars to purchase a brand name or a corporate name (for example, when Infogrames bought Atari and began using their name). The name and logo - the intellecutal property - is a massive, massive part of that. It's tremendously important.

So, stealing such things is not only illegal, but highly insensitive. If you spent hundreds of hours making a site and I simply stole it and claimed it as my own, how would you feel?[/color]

[Semjaza]

[quote name='Baron Samedi][size=1']Also, a rather apt quote for this thread "Music downloading supports artists who perform live."[/size][/quote]

I'm not going after you, but I see this so much. This is the most ridiculous thing I seen continuously posted on the internet in many, many places. Can someone explain to me how this works?

If you don't buy albums, the label won't support the tour. End of story. It's happened many, many times. It even happened to Nine Inch Nails with the Fragile, which despite going platinum was not enough for Interscope. Trent Reznor paid for a large portion of that tour out of his own pocket. This really bodes well for that argument. It's happened with Curve as well. Some bands have even broken up because of it; major labels are not supportive of sales lulls and few indie labels have enough pull to really get a band going to that extent.

Fiona Apple, for example, has had an album done for quite some time and Sony won't release it because of what apparently is "lack of commercial appeal". As far as these labels are concerned, if you don't buy enough of it, the public simply doesn't want it.

Now I'm not saying their music was pirated so often that they lost millions of record sales (it definitely hasn't), but how in the world are you going to see a band live if they can't tour if no one buys the albums? Things don't work that way.

There's also this idea of how going to a show and buying a shirt or something will give them more money. There's just as many middlemen in the merchandise buying process, really. I'd be surprised if a group got all that much money from any of that compared to actual CD sales.

Regardless, I severely doubt that even a majority of people who pirate music go to the live shows of each and every one of the musicians they enjoy that they've never bought a single album for. That alone kills off any benefit of that argument, really.

[James]

[color=#D6A204]Very true. But people will find ways to justify anything, won't they? It's free, it's easy, so god forbid that we have some guilt when it comes to downloading music or whatever.

The whole argument that "I can't afford it so I [b]need[/b] an alternative route" is ridiculous, I think.

I can't afford a Ferrari. But I really need one! I mean, I just have to have that red sports car. I can't live without it. So I'll go steal it.

Seriously, nobody requires any of these things to live. You aren't going to collapse and die if you don't have certain music (though this is arguable in some cases, lol). So really, that isn't an excuse at all. There are plenty of things I want that I can't afford, but stealing them isn't an option for a whole variety of reasons.[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Granted Tony, it was a stupid thing to say. I'd only heard the expression that day, and I thought it was an appropriate place to voice it. Had I thought about the actual consequences of it? No, not really. It was just a quote I'd heard earlier during the day, and it tickled me.

Obviously I'm not for ripping off every album you have ever wanted. I do however acknowlege that there is a problem with people thinking "Hey, I'm only [b]one[/b] person downloading music. They're not going to care about the pitiful amount of revenue they miss out on because I'm downloading."

They fail to look beyond and realise that there are hundreds of thousands of people thinking the same thing.[/size]