Little Girl in Handcuffs

[Kamuro]

five year olds of course do have some sense of right and wrong, theres a reason that we've chosen to start them at school during this time in their lives. However, children are still children, and when feeling overwhelmed they do lash out and they do throw tantrums. The point is, its natural, and it happens. However, the crime didn't fit the punishment, not at all. Anyone with even a small bit of common sense knows that you don't put a five your old in handcuffs, especially when theres so many other ways the situation could've been taken care of. Anyway, the mother is sueing so I assume she'll get more then enough money to make her daughter feel better.

[Retribution]

[quote=Xy GGu]
Florida news < What we are presented with in post =

One-sided opinion

Wrong sense of justice / Unfair radical replies =

Disgust toward those claiming to be humane[/quote]
[SIZE=1]Whoa... what're you talking about? It seems to me that this "one-sided opinion" isn't stemming from my side of the fence. The media is taking your side -- bringing up the "She's an [B]innocent 5 year old child[/B] from a rough life -- weep for us" arguement. Wrong sense of justice? Who's to say? I do know that the media is on your side. Don't think for a minute that the media wouldn't eat up a story about "child abuse by a teacher."[/SIZE]

[quote=Sage]That is where you are sadly very, very wrong. Just think about yourself when you were five. Surely you threw some wild tantrums over the smallest things, throwing stuff and screaming your lungs out. In this case the girl was in a class room with lots of potential targets to aim frustration at, it's not like she did it out of the evilness of her soul.

Think about your own reaction if suddenly, in the middle of your childish fissyfit, a couple of bulky strange adults had come and put cold steel chains around your wrists and ankles. How can you possibly say that it wouldn't harm the kid in any way? That is like the most traumatizing thing for a five year old aside sexual abuse and violence!

Next time before you start saying what's harmful and what's not, Retribution, do a little soul-searching, okay?[/quote]
[SIZE=1][B]This girl truly had no right to do this.[/B] Just because she was hella pissed doesn't mean she can go swear like a drunken sailor and tear posters off a wall and yell and kick and scream like there's no tommorow. Handling your anger in a destructive manner -- at any age (well, unless you're around three or under) isn't right. They [I]might not know that[/I], but their ignorance doesn't make things hunky dorey.

Hm... so you ask me to put myself in her shoes? If I was throwing one of my own hissy-fits when the cops came in? If I was thrashing about and swearing like a sailor, my mother would have laid a firm back hand across my cheek and thrown me in my room without dinner. If the cops had come in? I'd be horridly frightened. It [I]is admittedly[/I] an 'over-the-top' thing to do. But what should the teacher have done? Throw her in a closet? Pick up the thrashing child? I know I wouldnt've.

Picking up + Thrashing/Berserker child = physical pain for you.

I think people have a problem with the whole cops coming in and cuffing her deal. That, as stated before, is probably because you all associate cuffs with jail and capital punishment and those dingy/dark jail cells. But it was only a mechanism to prevent her from dealing further damage to her surroundings. Would your reaction have been different if the cops put her in a room alone? Probably.

Damaging to the child? No idea. I know that she won't end up in some mental ward. It's not enough to make her crazy or anything.

And don't tell me to "'do some soul searching." I know exactly what I think, and don't need someone else to second guess my decisions. This girl was not right to explode on the teacher like she did.

It'd be good if someone knew what prompted her to detonate upon the classroom like she did.[/SIZE]

[Neko]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]You know what? Regardless of the circumstances at the time, they went way, [I]way[/I] over the line on this one. I mean, seriously, just put yourself in the mindset of the little girl: You've just been cuffed -wrists [I]and[/I] ankles - and sent off to jail with none other than those scary poice-guys. You know, those guys that your parents told you take care of bad people that need to be locked away for a while. Only, before the cops get a chance to pull away from the school, you get stopped by a mother that hates you, and is probably flaming-pissed at you for what you're doing. I don't really think this would improve a five-year-old girl's attitude, nor, for that matter, her [I]sanity[/I].

I'll be honest with you, I've done more than my share of things that were - or at least from how it sounds to me - roughly as extreme as what that girl did. Did I get cuffed by the men-in blue?! Certainly not. They (my supervisors at the time) just 'let' me go to a nice, quiet, empty room for a while and let me vent [I]there[/I]. Is that really so hard?

It's not like I'm saying what the girl did isn't wrong, but there are easier, more [I]effective[/I] ways of calming down a child than sending her off with the police. If anything, that would just make the situation more unstable. If she has no father, and her mother hates her, maybe they should consider finding her a loving foster family? I'm sure a little bit of love and caring for a change might help the little girl...certainly more than a trip to jail would.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Minako]

This thread has gotten to be...well...a whole mess of arguments. Everyone has a different opinion on this, and I'm relieved that the person who posted first (after this thread was posted...I don't remember who...) apologized for their comments when finding out the girl in question was [B]5 years old.[/B]

My own personal opinion is that I think it was a bit extreme to call the [B]police[/B] in this situation. I also agree with many in that the teacher had very little patience. I have a 5 year old cousin, whom I live with, and when I'm babysitting and he throws a tantrum, I grab his wrists, look in his eyes (if he's being naughty) but if he's clearly tired or stressed, I speak calmly to him and he usually calms down. I'm not trying to generalize children just based on my cousin, but I think this could have been dealt with a bit better.

This thread has become a thread about the right and wrong ways the school system/parenting should be done. I sure as heck know that my aunt and uncle are crappy parents, but I'm going to do things differently with my own children (someday).

In essence, in my opinion, the school could have dealt with this in less extreme ways.

[Adahn]

[size=2]I was just wondering how many of you have ever seen a 5 year old. You talk about the possibly physical harm? Here's something you may not know. 5 year old girls are small and weak. They barely have the physical ability to affect anything around them. At best, they can tear posters down. But a punch or a kick from a 5 year old girl? I imagine it might tickle a little.[/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]There's something else I might add. The little girl is black, so there may (or may not) have been an element of racism in the harsh treatment. I don't know all the details, such as the racial distribution of the classroom, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.[/size]

[Sara]

[font=trebuchet ms]Having watched the video (it's available online), I have to say that I am extremely disappointed and upset with what took place. From the very begininng, I feel that the woman (I don't know if she is the teacher of the principal) went about things the wrong way. The girl was followed closely as she walked around an empty classroom (the other students having been made to leave) and told, constantly (almost as a refrain) "No, no, no, don't do that, that's unacceptable, we're not going to make a bigger mess, no, unacceptable."

Despite the fact that this approach was [i]clearly not having an effect[/i], it was continued. That's not a problem, in and of itself, but [i]why[/i] was it continued? Anyone who has dealt with children knows that while they might not listen the first time, if they don't listen by the third, they aren't going to do so. What was the point of following her around and constantly scolding her?

It really seems that the actions of the woman in the video were a matter of her own pride, rather than with the well-being of the child or resolution of the issue, in mind. To follow a five year old around, telling her to clean up a mess--well, first of all, if you [i]follow[/i] someone, they're going to keep moving. So of course, the girl continued to wander around the classroom.

The girl made a mess. Yes, that's fine. Children do that, and it's fair that they should be made to clean up their messes. But when there is a temper tantrum involved, I think any intelligent person realises that there isn't going to be any cleaning done. The best thing to do, from the beginning, would have been to remove the girl from the group (rather than evacuating the classroom), had a fellow teacher or adult clean up the mess, and allowed the girl to calm down. She can face consequences for her actions--time-out the next day, or something [i]equally appropriate for a five year old[/i] later.

In my opinion, the teacher's actions--and constant talking, to the point where what she says [i]no longer means anything[/i]--did nothing but "escalate the situation."

I don't know what rules are in place regarding how a teacher may or may not physically handle a student, but what the woman [i]did[/i] do on occassion (taking the child's hands and hold her closely and firmly) should have been done much earlier. And since it was done anyway, I feel that the woman should have continued the hold the girl, rather than letting her go and allowing her to climb back up on the table.

I doubt that anything happened that a capable adult would not have been able to handle with the aid of a second person to watch the rest of the class. Considering how poorly the adults at the school acted through the rest of the incident, it does not surprise me that the police were called--they clearly had no idea how to handle the child, fine.

However, there was [i]no reason[/i] for the police ot act as they did. Three grown adults are [i]not[/i] needed to handcuff a small five-year-old girl. She [i]should not have been[/i] handcuffed in the first place. Taken into a seperate room with a teacher and an officer, to be gently talked to by the officer, I can see. But I cannot [i]beleive[/i] that things played out as they did. It's ridiculous.

And for the record, the girl was [i]sitting quietly[/i] when the police arrived.

[quote]I think people have a problem with the whole cops coming in and cuffing her deal. That, as stated before, is probably because you all associate cuffs with jail and capital punishment and those dingy/dark jail cells. But it was only a mechanism to prevent her from dealing further damage to her surroundings. Would your reaction have been different if the cops put her in a room alone? Probably.[/quote]Of [i]course[/i] we have a problem with thhe cops coming in and cuffing her, and [i]yes[/i] it is because of the associations we have with handcuffs. The fact also remains that the action was extreme, and, I maintain, uneccessary.

Particularly uneccessary, I might add, had the adults in question had any idea how to deal with an upset child.[/font]

[Sandy]

There's a [I]video[/I] on this?! Oh well, of course there's a video; there's hundreds of videos about people getting swept away by the December tsunami, so why not this as well...

I hope you, Retribution, now see the point I was trying to make, now that it is explained by people who actually speak English as their native language. You seem to think that some posters and "surroundings" are more important than a little girl's psyche. Talking about materialism...

After reading the detailed description on how the situation went (thanks, Lore), I think the mother has every right to sue the school. The teacher seems to be a very unprofessional and unsuited person for her job, so I hope this event makes her think about what she really wants to do in life.

And it's quite possible that there really was racism involved if the girl was black. Some people just can't get over skincolor. This adds [I]yet[/I] another level of wrong to this case...

Alright, I think I've drained out everything I had to say about this issue, so I better stop before I get too spammifying... It's been a very interesting "discussion", though, concerning my future profession.

PS. I realize I've sounded overly judgmental and patronising several times in this thread, so I apologize, but understand that it's all because my life is currently revolving so much around paedagogics and children's psyche, thanks to my school.

[Kamuro]

I think everyone is almost in agreement, it was wrong to cuff the girl and it was handled the wrong way. Retribution, c'mon lol. Even if the cuffing didn't harm her, they wanted to [I]keep her over night in a detention center.[/I] Luckily her mom stopped them from corrupting her further.

However, I have another standpoint on the issue. I can't see a child like this being completely innocent before having entered school. As previously stated most of us are able to control ourselves, for the most part, at that age. I get the feeling that mom hasn't treated her daughter all that well and shes part of the problem. Of course the girl has some malfunction to but to blame the entire situation on a five your old girl is crazy. Give me a five year old that acts rationally, especially in cuffs surrounded by tall people carrying guns and other weapons.

Another thing, that I think might rear its ugly head in this case, is the girl's race. She was black, and the teacher, policemen, etc were all white. I don't believe that this has anything to do with the case itself but it seems that its always brought up and people take it more seriously then they should.

[Shadowlight]

I read all your arguments, so i feel compelled to say this, i watch in the news the little girl you've been talking and if i can say this, the trantrum she was doing wasn'treally a trantum, she was riping some posters, trying to kick her teacher (with no sucess at all) and she seat in the table, and that's it!
She was all alone in a small room with her teacher, no kids were there!After awhile she calmed down and seat and then with no reason at all (and not trantum)the cops came in and put handcuffs in her, she wasn't doing anything in that moment!!
So i'm sorry if i sound rude but i think the way the cops, the teacher and all the people who were involve here act really wrong!
The girl was only acting like a 5 year old kid act when they feel mad, she wasn't hurting anyone, she didn't broke nothing, she just take papers from aside and put them on another side!That's it!!
So why they called and why the cops act like that? The way all those people act was really wrong and unnecessary!!
It seriuosly make me think that that school especially the teacher and principal are not prepared at all to act with children!!
I wrote this and i wrote one more time, children will be allways children even if they know what's wrong or not, they will allways act that way! Sure her behaviour wasn't the best, but gosh you can't look at her as we look to an adult! Things could be handle so much more nice and may i say better for her, because i'm sure right now the poor little girl is traumatized with that, i know i were if i was her...


Ps: Well it seems above my comment another person saw this video, so i agree with the persons above me.

[Skye]

[color=red][size=1]YOu know, this kind of thing pisses me off, excuse my language.

Florida may need to give it a rest, but Georgia isn't good enough. In a daycare where my mom used to work, there was one little girl who was worse than the girl you guys are talking about. She didn't have a self control problem - she did this on purpose. Whenever someoen would stop paying attention to her, she would go to the point of seriously hurting the other children in the class to get attention. And the parents and the manager would do nothing about it.

Stuff like this also pisses me off because my brother did something like that. In kindergarten, he threw chair. Yeah. But he's really smart, but he has a temper. He never did it again, but still.

I mean, in this case, the little girl was LEARNING, for christs sake! So maybe she shouldn't have gone berserk like that, but the hand cuffs was a little much. I mean, she was a little girl! They could have just held her in like a tight hug or something until her mom got there.

Rant over now. ^_^[/size][/color]

[gatorschick99]

i stongly agree that the girl should have been locked up

[Kamuro]

[quote name='gatorschick99']i stongly agree that the girl should have been locked up[/quote]

well, thank you for that incredibly intelligent and detailed post, the girl wasn't going to be "locked up", they were considering keeping her over night in a detention center, but thats all, and even that didn't happen. The situation was blown way out of proportion and went way to far considering the age of the girl.