China, Japan, Korea, and something dumb.

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I had been meaning to post this thread for a week or so now, but I never really got around to it until now. Anyways.

I was reading Newsweek and read an article about anti-Japanese riots in China, which interested me greatly, so I read the whole thing.

First of all, let us all revel in the stupidity of the Japanese government or whoever it was that decided to "slightly change" their history textbooks. Please. As if the rest of the world doesn't know what Japan really did during WWII. I'm not sure as to what exactly has changed in the textbooks, but changing history in the first place is one of the dumbest, lamest, stupidest, did-I-mention-lamest, things ever. [i]I'm sure it's happened before[/i], but I'm just going to *vent* now. Of course, it didn't help that was a Chinese nuclear submarine practically just lurking around Japan. Good job, both of you guys.

And now Japan is getting all huffy and criticizing China's textbooks.

Holy. Mother. Make like Germany and be honest.

Second of all...um...now Japan has 'claimed' the Tokdo islands. Korea is going freaking nuts. A Korean man whose father was forced to serve in the Japanese army has LIT HIMSELF ON FIRE in front of the Japanese embassy in Korea for a demonstration. Yes, that Japanese ambassador just HAD to mention that the Tokdo islands were "historically and legally Japan's territory." Yes, because a tiny island matters so much that you must claim because the future of the world lies in that island. You know, things were actually going sort of good between Japan and South Korea. Smooth. Nice. Enter lame-*** ambassador who sparks a huge fight because of two small islands sitting somewhere in the ocean. Or Maybe the Japanese government wanted him to say it. Ugh.

Being Korean, it's practically just in my gut to be biased against Japan. My mom practically loathes the country because of the things that had happened to her family. But still...this whole thing is ridiculous.[/color]

[James]

[color=#D6A204]It's a difficult situation. I don't think it's healthy to be constantly angry at Japan - the past is the past. But at the same time, Japan has to be responsible and ensure that young people over there actually learn the [b]truth[/b] about what Japan did during WWII.

I would hazard a guess that few if any Japanese young people know that Japan visciously attacked both Darwin and Sydney in WWII. Or that they killed thousands of Australians and tortured others, along with Chinese, Koreans and many others in this part of the world.

It's ironic that Australia's closest/biggest trading partner is now Japan (moreso than the United States or the UK), considering the past. And generally, in my country, there is a warm relationship with the Japanese. However, I do think that people here would acknowledge that the status quo has to change - if Japan faces up to the past and is honest, it would ease a great deal of tension.[/color]

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]I haven't heard anything about Japan claiming some island as their's, but I do know about the whole textbook issue. I don't agree with the textbook change. From the book that I read, [U]FlyBoys[/U] by James Bradley, I learned what the Japanese really did at that time. It was horrible. All that they changed in the history textbooks was leave out some of the details of what they really did to the Millions of Chinese and Koreans. That's all.

The reason for the anti-Japanese protests were because they believed that the Japanese government were sheltering their growing youth of sorts by not telling their kids how much pain their ancestors really caused during WW2.

About the Chinese Nuclear submarine, and such. Do you realize how close the Japanese islands are to China and North Korea. The North Koreans absolutely hate the Japanese. Shooting nuclear rockets over Japan is proof for that.

Can't we just make amends and live in peace?[/COLOR]

[Lord Dante]

[QUOTE]The reason for the anti-Japanese protests were because they believed that the Japanese government were sheltering their growing youth of sorts by not telling their kids how much pain their ancestors really caused during WW2. [/QUOTE]

to be honest, i don't blame them fro trying to shelter their youth from what their ancestors had done. I'm not entirely sure that the sins of the previous generation should be passed on to the next.

[Xander Harris]

[quote name='Lord Dante']to be honest, i don't blame them fro trying to shelter their youth from what their ancestors had done. I'm not entirely sure that the sins of the previous generation should be passed on to the next.[/quote]

I am against altering history in any way, but yes, the Japanese of today should not have to bear the guilt of the WW2 Japanese any more than white Americans should bear the guilt for their slaver ancestors.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]No, they should not have to bare the guilt, but they need to fess up to the facts, and covering that up is not the way to do it. And just for the record, I don't like American textbooks, too. (By the way, since you enver directly stated what the change was, Lunox, I'm inferring that they're taking a large section about WII atrocities out of the textbooks).

As far as I know, not many Japanese student know the actual extent of the atrocities their country committed during WWII. The same way that most Americans have no idea of how many Japanese Americans we killed in WWII. The internment camps of America were little better than those of the Nazi sort. The only difference was we didn't kill them and didn't intentionally starve them. American textbooks usually nicely glossover how many millions of Native Americans who died at the hands of the army. Like Ken said, every country has blood on its hand.

BTW, if you want a detailed explanation of what the Japanese did during WWII, I believe DeathKnight has a post (one of his "Bloody history" days) about the Rape of Nanjing somewhere in the archives of his myOtaku, and wristcutter had a very nice post (the best explanation I've ever seen) about the Japanese in WWII in his archives, but his myO seems to have vanished. :/

I can see why the Chinese are angry, and they have a right to be. But they also have a right to act like adults - not five year old crybabies or chickens with their heads cut off that get upset everytime Japan does something. Please. Japan needs to fess up and China needs to grow up.

The Koreans have a right to be angry too. God, that country has practially never been theirs. lol. I think they have the right to be angry moreso than the Chinese since Japan has [i]always[/i] been invading their land, ever since the day of the samurai when they would hop onto the mainland and massacre villages of Koreans to practice their Samurai skills. :/

Since you didn't explain the whole situation about the islands, either, if it technically belongs to Japan, I guess they can have it back, but like, what did they do? Come in with troops and just decide to size the whole thing? Yeah, that was really smart, too. lol.

Oh, and I noticed that James mentioned how horribly Australian soliders were treated by the Japanese during WWII. He's right. They treated everybody like that. Just to let you know, if you were an allied soldier, you had better chances of surviving if you were caught by the Nazis than you did if you got captured by the Japanese.[/color]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Lunox][color=darkslateblue']Being Korean, it's practically just in my gut to be biased against Japan. My mom practically loathes the country because of the things that had happened to her family. But still...this whole thing is ridiculous.[/color][/quote]
[SIZE=1]I know exactly where you're coming from. My Korean aunt said that "the Japanese are sneaky people," which kind of shocked me. I suppose I didn't understand the bias each nation had towards the other.

As for censoring texts and whatnot, it shouldn't be done. The youth need to know their past and what happened, instead of burying history and making like it never happened. What if the Germans didn't tell their youth about what really happened during WWII? If they ever got on the topic of it, they'd be blown away, and probably not believe them either.

Don't shelter them -- let the kids have it unabridged. They need to know their roots, and how the world has changed from them. What if I had been sheltered, and didn't know my own heritage; the horrors of the Middle Passage, and the brutal slave trade? I'd rather know my past, so I can walk with pride about how far we've come.[/SIZE]

[Godelsensei]

Quite frankly, I am appalled that the Japanese government would try to "shelter" their country's youth from the truth of WW2. When I first heard about the modification of the textbooks, I could have screamed.

A lot of people do not take what went on during WW2 seriously. I have heard too many stupid, immature remarks. It's as though many individuals have no concept of what it means for [b]30 000 000[/b] people to die.
When [i]nations[/i], especially those who were [i]to blame[/i] for many of these deaths start acting as though it's no big deal, there is simply no excuse, no justification.

No, Japanese people should not have to feel personally guilty for what their ancestors did during the war--it had nothing to do with them, [i]as individuals[/i]. But it has everything to do with [i]the country[/i], especially since the way it operates today is a direct result of Hiroshima.

Hell, the entire [i]world[/i] was reshaped by the events of WW2. That's not something to gloss over in the history books.

[Citrus]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=Green]I am pure Japanese. I heard of these anti-Japanese riots in China like a week ago. They made me mad, why whould a whole nation turn it's back on a country that had done nothing to them? Then I read an article that the feud was over Japan's war time past and their school text books.

In the 7th grade we did not learn about World War II and how we had lost the war. Actually I didn't know about World War II until I paid a visit to Sadako's Shrine. It broke my heart to hear that "Americans" who were supposed to be such a great country dropped bombs on small cities. Heh, it made me so angry I grew to become racist for quite some time.

Then I learned why they had dropped the bombs, I wasn't as racist but I do still have some comments on Americans. I am glad we don't learn that in our text books. Then I learned of another one of my countries "confrontations" with one of our neigbouring nations. Korea.

It was clearly said qoute on qoute, "Korea made the situation worse so we had no choice to invade". I can totally beleive that, and I don't care if we read it in our text books or not. Korea likes to keep on bringing back that old situation, if you ask me it's is sucha cliche. I don't care if these other peopel say that Japanese are so evil because they had war at one time.

America had war with Germany, I don't see American's yellign at the Germans saying how they went to war once. HAH! The number one nationality in the country of America is German. Explain that.

I would like to hear more opinions on this ubject. Nothign better than a good 'ol fashion debate.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Zen]

[color=darkred][size=1]


The whole "altering history" thing reminds me alot of George Orwell's book, [I]1984[/I] and a particular essay following it. In the book itself, the socialist/communist goverment of Oceania alters its history text books on a regular basis, just so it can make it's citizen's passionatley hate the current enemy by making them beleive that the country had ALWAYS been at war with the current enemy. But more to the point, the essay "There Was No Incident In Tianmen Square" (or something along those lines) tells how the communist chinese government had denied and lied to it's citizens about the student's protest at Tainmen Square, and it wasn't until the press release of the event all over the world (particularly the chinese student being trampled by a tank) that the gorvernment had finally let the issue out.

This seems to be, in my eyes, what Japan is doing to mask its war crimes against chinese civilains in World War II. I had recently seen a documentary about a Japanese Weapons Testing Unit, which tested numerous ballistics, chemical, biological, and physical weapons on imprisoned chinese civilians and American POWs. That, combined with the Japanese poinsoning several rivers that the chinese were dependant on for survival, were terrible war crimes, that I'm sure Japan wanted to mask.

Still, I find it very wrong how they are changing the text books and trying to control the truth of the world. Some outside party needs to step in and set things straight before things between China and Japan get out of control... [/color][/size]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Lady Dust][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][COLOR=Green]America had war with Germany, I don't see American's yellign at the Germans saying how they went to war once. HAH! The number one nationality in the country of America is German. Explain that.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

To begin with, I'm not sure most of the USA is German.

However, I'm going to focus on the words, [b]"went to war once"[/b].

The implications of the second World War are far greater than what you've heard suggested. The number of people who were killed amounts to the [i]entire population of Canada[/i].

Additionally, though Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible, tragic events, Japan left the Allies no choice. There was no other way to get them to stop what they were doing.
The actions of the Japanese forces in China, Korea, and throughout the rest of Asia, were brutal and savage. They tortured and killed countless innocent people.
Keeping that information from later generations does not change the past.

It sounds as though, in Japan, students are taught that WW2 was just a matter of having "gone to war once". Either that or they're just not taught it at all.
Bring up the same war in a Canadian classroom, and every one goes silent, and those who don't are looked upon with disgust. I imagine it's the same just about everywhere.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I think that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are fairly debatable, but let me fully illustrate the "American" perspective on the whole thing.

We were gearing up for a massive land invasion of Japan. I bet your history textbooks never told you that every man, woman, and child was taught to prepare to die for their nation; to fight the enemy with anything they had whether it was a garden hoe or a pocket knife.

We printed so many F*ing purple hearts (received when you are wounded in battle, I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong) that we're STILL using the same purple hearts from 1945 to award soldiers wounded in battle today. The was in Europe was over, and Russia was supposed to send their troops to help us with the land invasion, but they were acting funny, and I forget the exact specifics, but they were acting like they wanted to seize Japan for themselves and not make it a joint operation. Plus, they were taking longer than they should have to get to the other side of Russia.

It was at this time that Truman was presented with the option to use the atomic bombs, and he wrestled with the decision but decided to use them because they would save [b]American lives[/b]. Why should Truman have been concerned with the lives of the enemy? That doesn't make sense.

What happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki is unforgivable. (In my own opinion, because I'm an American) It is justifiable, but still unforgivable, and everybody here knows that. In my Asian Civ class, when we talked about WWII and Japan, my teacher spent just as much time explaining the reasoning behind the bombings as he did tell us all (he showed us movies and films) how atrocious and how devastating the bombings were. I bet you also didn't know that Truman wrestled with what he did [b]for the rest of his life[/b]. In his personal diaries, he stated that he felt so guilty for subjecting innocent civilians to the bombs, but he truly believed there was not a better solution. More people on both sides would have died in that land invasion than by the bombs.

I'd also just like to add that there are Americans who are helping those from Hiroshima. Because there are still some health problems with some young children born in Hiroshima today, there are facilities in Massachusetts, I believe, where they can be treated, and local families (approved by the hospital of course) will host the children, and let them stay with them until their treatment is finished.

I, and most other Americans know that the effects of the bomb are inexcusable and unforgivable, but the general feeling is that there was no other way for America. Obviously because you're Japanese, I realize I cannot change your point of view in any way, but I just wanted to explain the general American mentality toward that situation.


I agree with you, Lady Dust, that the Chinese can be really annoying and total jerkfaces. And I'm 50% Chinese, okay? lol. Honestly, every time some minor, little, itty bitty thing about Japan happens in China, every Chinese person gets upset, and whatever it is, is blown out of proportion. Here's a good example: I think last year, a bunch of Japanese from a business company on a trip to China had Chinese prostitutes to come to the hotel one night while they were there, and the authorities found out. Prostitution is illegal in China, and they should be upset at whoever was hiring them, but they blew it entirely out of proportion. Because the incident happened to fall on the day of the Rape of Nanjing (which I'm sure you've never even heard about), the Chinese were doubly infuriated and believed they did it on that day on purpose, and blah blah blah. It was a bad situation to begin with, and the government (remember: all media is controlled by the government) blew it out of the water and ran with it.

They're harboring feelings that are not applicable to the Japanese as a people today. The Japanese have come a LONG way since WWII.

However, on the other side of the coin, history books should not be altered. It's unfair to try and run from the crimes that Japan committed. And really, who the hell are they fooling? By doing that, they're only making future generations more ignorant.

I don't feel that the subject should be taught in depth when Japanese students are in 7th grade - that's far too ridiculous, but high school should be the time when they learn about the war crimes of their country. The Germans teach their students about it when they're in their senior year of high school, but it's a very solemn subject and very serious. And as you know, other things, such as the swastika, are permanently banned from being printed anywhere in Germany (although actually, I wonder if they're allowed to, in history books...).

The Japanese need to do that, too. Otherwise, like you, their students will be wondering why in the world the Chinese are yelling at them. If you can't understand the other point of view, how will you ever be able to work toward peace with that country?

China has a long way to go; it is my personal belief that the communist government, where they can (I'm sure not always in more educated places like the cities with businesses and such), they encourage anti-Japanese sentiments, and that's not right. But what by the same token, what is Japan doing about the situation except trying to cover it up? It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Japan needs to be the bigger country, do the right thing, and for God's sake, [i]teach frickin' history, dammit!!![/i]

By the way, Lady Dust, I know it sounds like I'm completely bashing Japan beyond belief, but I just wanted to let you know, it's not only Japan's textbooks I'm disappointed with; it's America's as well. Like I said, hardly anybody knows the truth about what went on in Japanese internment camps, and how horribly they were treated. Like I said, it was just like a Nazi work camp without the intentional killing or starvation.

How many Americans know of the number of Native Americans that died at the hands of [b]American Soldiers[/b]? Since you probably don't know, I'll tell you. [b]Millions[/b]. Millions. The Trail of Tears (relocation of Native Americans in southern states like Georgia, Florida, SC, etc. to Oklahoma) was incredibly downplayed in my text book (The American Pageant - one of, if not the most widely used & rather "difinitive" textbook for American history), and we spent about a day on it in class. After the Civil war, when they army was relocating the Native Americans in the west to reservations, if they didn't move, the American soldiers would mow them down and kill every last one of them that resisted. Genocide. A forgotten genocide.

So my point is it's not only Japan that's not doing the right thing - it's other countries too. And I believe that Japan needs to fess up to what they did during WWII, as does America in their history. To try and erase what the Japanese did in WWII is unforgivable, much like the bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are unforgivable. Like DeathKnight has always said, every country has blood on their hands, and it is naive to believe otherwise.[/color]

[Citrus]

[QUOTE=Godelsensei]To begin with, I'm not sure most of the USA is German.

However, I'm going to focus on the words, [b]"went to war once"[/b].

The implications of the second World War are far greater than what you've heard suggested. The number of people who were killed amounts to the [i]entire population of Canada[/i].

Additionally, though Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible, tragic events, Japan left the Allies no choice. There was no other way to get them to stop what they were doing.
The actions of the Japanese forces in China, Korea, and throughout the rest of Asia, were brutal and savage. They tortured and killed countless innocent people.
Keeping that information from later generations does not change the past.

It sounds as though, in Japan, students are taught that WW2 was just a matter of having "gone to war once". Either that or they're just not taught it at all.
Bring up the same war in a Canadian classroom, and every one goes silent, and those who don't are looked upon with disgust. I imagine it's the same just about everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Ok the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not just because the Japanese were getting out of control. My country was starting to become hungry for more and more control over the land. So in plan with the Italians and Germans, the Axis tried to take over the world. No joke, most of you obviously have heard the story. Just wanted to clear that up.

So I am going to reply to Godelsensei.

Japan went into China and Korea headstrong nothing to say about that. But they killed many innocent people of course. But isn't that the same thing that we are doing today? Aren't the countries of Britain, Canada, and most importantly goign into Iraq and killing thousands of people? And correct me if I am wrong, Bush clearly said that they are going to go in there and kill as many people as were killed in the 9/11 attacks? Haven't they killed twice as many people?

And not teaching the events that my country of Japan did in the past is in fact doing good for the students. It's supposed to be sheltered from them because they will not likely to repeat again later on. Isn't that what history is about Godelnesensei?

[Tigervx]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal] As an advocate of History, I find the censorship of the Japanese involvement in WWII very sad indeed. I remember listening to a NPR program about this a week ago, and after hearing from various Japanese students they found they knew almost nothing of the true involvement of Japan in the War. I remember one of the things that sticks in my mind is that when asked why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, a majority of the interviewed students said, "In retaliation of the Atomic Bombs." Mind you, these are High School Children.

And I also agree with what the USA did. The estimated death toll for US soldiers in the invasion of Japan was One million soldiers. This does not even count the number of Japanese that would be killed. The Japanese told their citizens that when the Americans came to shore, they would rape their women, murder their children, and kill everyone. This had worked at Okinawa very well, in which most of the civilian population committed suicide rather then surrender to American Forces. It was so chaotic to the point that the Japan Military was conscripting every man to fight, and training women and children to attack the American with Bamboo sticks.

And I never understood what made the Atomic Bombs so horrific. The same year American Bombers fire bombed Tokyo and killed 100,000 people, yet the atomic bomb only killed 70,000 people from both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. People say it?s a war crime, but conventional warfare still proved to be much more lethal then the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And of course, as Chinese myself, I do believe that the Japanese youth should know about the mistakes of the past, so they shall not repeat them in the future. The Rape of Nan king is one of the most horrific crimes, but there are plenty others. Using captured Chinese soldiers for bayonet practice, massacring towns, raping women, and even killing children. The Japanese youth has to realize that the War they fought was a mistake, a huge one, and they must know the mistakes of their ancestors so they shall know not to do the same.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Xander Harris]

yeah, I guess my view on the use of the atomic bomb is that sometimes a war becomes so out of control that it needs to be ended by any means necessary. In the case of WW2, the atomic bomb was that means.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium][color=#808080]Also, Germany shouldn't really be compared to Japan in a modern context.

Where Germany repeatedly remembers the lessons of the past, Japan does not. Prime Minister Koizumi (for all his positive points as a reformist) continues to visit war shrines to remember fallen soldiers - soldiers who died while aggressively invading every last nation in the region.

[/color][/font]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Lady Dust']And not teaching the events that my country of Japan did in the past is in fact doing good for the students. It's supposed to be sheltered from them because they will not likely to repeat again later on. Isn't that what history is about Godelnesensei?[/quote]

No, [i]actually[/i] history is about...history. You need to know your mistakes to avoid them in future. Why do you think Japan no longer has a military? Some reason other than Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I think not.

Additionally, [b]do not compare WW2 to Iraq.[/b] Do you know how many people were killed in WW2? [b]Thirty million.[/b] Any number of deaths is tragic, but comparing thousands to millions is ridiculous.

Ignoring the past won't make it go away. Pretending that a war never happened teaches no one how terrible a thing it was. It makes light work of re-shaping the world and destroying most of an entire culture.
Cultivating misconceptions about the events of WW2 within the minds of Japan's young people will not do any good for international relations. It will not help a business person to claim Pearl Harbor was justified, when striking up an agreement in America. And it will not help any one to realize they've been denied the truth about the most significant international conflict in history.

It's like the story of the blind black man who grew up to be a vicious racist. You cannot raise a nation on the belief that they were the ones wronged in a war fed by their desire to eliminate all other cultures.

I hold nothing against Japanese people (which would be ridiculous, considering the circumstances under which I'm typing this), just as I hold nothing against Germans or Italians. However, I hold everything against people who claim the years during which my ancestors had to eat tulip bulbs because there was no other food available, during which they had to plan in case men with guns game to their houses, demanding they give up the family living in their attic, never happened.

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1][quote name='Lady Dust']Japan went into China and Korea headstrong nothing to say about that. But they killed many innocent people of course. But isn't that the same thing that we are doing today? Aren't the countries of Britain, Canada, and most importantly goign into Iraq and killing thousands of people? And correct me if I am wrong, Bush clearly said that they are going to go in there and kill as many people as were killed in the 9/11 attacks? Haven't they killed twice as many people?[/quote]No, I'm sorry. Justification of Japan's war crimes isn't gonna fly here. Just because people are dying now [B]doesn't[/B] mean that Japan's massacres of towns, and spotaneous attack of Pearl Harbor were justified [I]in the least[/I]. Like Godel said, don't compare WWII to the War in Iraq. World War II is one of the great stains of history, while the War in Iraq is controversial. It saddens me deeply that you would even look for justification for Japan's actions of the past.

[QUOTE]And not teaching the events that my country of Japan did in the past is in fact doing good for the students. It's supposed to be sheltered from them because they will not likely to repeat again later on. Isn't that what history is about Godelnesensei?[/QUOTE]It's definitely not doing any good for these kids. It cripples them once they get into the real world, where everyone knows what actually happened, but they're oblivious to the fact. If you know the mistakes of the past, you know how to avoid them. By not teaching these children, they are prone to make the same mistake in the same fashion as last time. I'm sure you've heard that before.[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I find the whole 'omg my country is justifed' ridiculous.

Everyone makes mistakes.

Get over it.

But Japan shouldn't mess with history.

(China and Korea should grow up.)

The End.

Hoorah.

P.S. Don't compare WWII to the Iraqi War. That is so lame on many different levels.[/color]

[Citrus]

[QUOTE]Additionally, do not compare WW2 to Iraq. Do you know how many people were killed in WW2? Thirty million. Any number of deaths is tragic, but comparing thousands to millions is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Ok, thirty million people killed in WW II. If the American's have not pulled out their troops, and are not going to pull out their troops until a good 15 years. What will be the toll by the end of that time line? I pretty sure it will skyrocket the millions.

[QUOTE]However, I hold everything against people who claim the years during which my ancestors had to eat tulip bulbs because there was no other food available, during which they had to plan in case men with guns game to their houses, demanding they give up the family living in their attic, never happened.[/QUOTE]
Well well well. Your ancestors had to eat tulip buds and they had to "prepare" to wait and see if men came with guns came to their door. Hmpf. My last name is proudly Hiroshima. And my ancestors during that time did not "prepare" for a large bomb dropping right on their roof. They had no time to "prepare" for half of their family, which let me tell you almost wiped out the whole family line all together, to be wiped out.

My great-grandfather didn't get a chance to see what his daughter was going to look like. He died instantly once that bomb hit the ground. And my great-grandmother died with her baby still in womb of leukemia. For that, little "incident", I have grown up in fear that someone will drop a bomb on my house.

As I had said before I didn't learn better details until recently. Of course it made me mad that our kamikaze warriors crashed themselves into Pearl Harbor. But what was Pearl Harbor, wasn't half the opulation of Pearl Harbor men injured in the war?

Weren't they going to die anyways? And Retribution like you have said before about your aunt thinking that the Japanese are sneaky people. You can tell her yes we are. We are a very,very, sneaky people.

[Xander Harris]

I guess what bothers me is not that the slanted textbooks were printed (look at American textbooks, they're all slanted too) but rather the underlying idea behind the Japanese attitude toward the whole thing.

What I mean by this is, are the Japanese rulers really so emotionally fragile and childish that they can't bear to recognize their countries national guilt? Germans remember the travesties of WW2 well. Whoever said American students don't learn about the American internment camps in school... I beg to differ. We also learn about Indian relocation, the hangings and burnings of blacks, and the poverty that still exists in this nation. We assume that our countrymen can handle the knowledge that there is a black stain on the past. And even though many textbooks are slanted (it's nearly impossible to deal with history entirely dispassionately), the opinion of your average citizen is that it is a good thing to understand history as it was. There are unfortunately plenty of flag-shrouded idiots in our nation who refuse to see history through any lens other than one colored rose. But the facts are out there for people. It's their own fault if they ignore them.

So what precisely is Japan's problem? Why don't they have to deal with a world painted in shades of grey? Why do they get to put aside the lessons of the past and their national guilt? Are the students minds really so fragile, that when they discover their country is not the greatest thing since sliced toast they fall to pieces? What precisely is wrong with Japan, where students like some who have posted in this thread honestly believe that they do not need to know their countries true past?

China has an excuse. They're communist. What the heck is Japan's excuse for this infantile attitude?

[eleanor]

[i]Well well well. Your ancestors had to eat tulip buds and they had to "prepare" to wait and see if men came with guns came to their door. Hmpf. My last name is proudly Hiroshima. And my ancestors during that time did not "prepare" for a large bomb dropping right on their roof. They had no time to "prepare" for half of their family, which let me tell you almost wiped out the whole family line all together, to be wiped out.

My great-grandfather didn't get a chance to see what his daughter was going to look like. He died instantly once that bomb hit the ground. And my great-grandmother died with her baby still in womb of leukemia. For that, little "incident", I have grown up in fear that someone will drop a bomb on my house.

As I had said before I didn't learn better details until recently. Of course it made me mad that our kamikaze warriors crashed themselves into Pearl Harbor. But what was Pearl Harbor, wasn't half the opulation of Pearl Harbor men injured in the war?

Weren't they going to die anyways? And Retribution like you have said before about your aunt thinking that the Japanese are sneaky people. You can tell her yes we are. We are a very,very, sneaky people.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] *curse* I really tried to hold myself back in the last post, but you are really just pissing me off. Stop acting like Japan is some holy motherland that doesn't deserved to be blamed. Effing heck, I feel like slapping you. I feel like slapping a lot of people, myself included. I KNEW something like this would come up when I wrote this thread, but I wrote just in spite.

So saying that I'm being an utter lameass right now, I can say this: SHOVE IT. Every country in this damn world has done some pretty crappy things, Japan included. You say your great-grandfather never saw what his daughter was going to look like. You know what? A million other people saw their best friend get blown up in front of their faces. A million other people saw their parents killed brutally. A million other people saw a hell that you will never see. I am mad. I am so mad. You have no idea how angry and frustrated I am. My hand is literally shaking while I write this.

WOE IS YOU. Your ancestors had a horrible past, and I have sympathy for them. Well then, woe is all the soldiers who have died for nothing. Feel bad for the people who has suffered everything. I can't believe you are sitting there trying to say that we should all feel bad for Japan and not get angry at them in the slightest. Well, hell, just sit there and don't get angry at the US then.

Oh, and you are sneaky. Good job. [/color]

[Godelsensei]

Lady Dust, your entire argument here proves that failing to teach history is a terrible, misguided course of action, that no nation should take.

If all of Japan's young people have the same concept of the happenings of the Second World War as you do, a large number of them are likely to be shot while traveling.

That's how serious WW2 was. That's how critical it is to understand what went on during it.

This isn't some blame-fest and this isn't about who had to suffer through the worst ****; this isn't about Japan, America, or even Germany. This is about the World. The [i]Entire[/i] World. This is about knowing what war is and that it should be avoided at all costs.

I agree with everything Lunox just said. And my hands are shaking, too.

[Citrus]

[QUOTE]Stop acting like Japan is some holy motherland that doesn't deserved to be blamed.[/QUOTE]
So now your saying Japan is a motherland. Japan does deserve to be blamed partially for their war time past. Of course they killed "millions" of people during their Asian Domination. And Japan isn't some country that thrives over war, blood, and savage like you are describing it.

[QUOTE]This is about the World. The Entire World. This is about knowing what war is and that it should be avoided at all costs.[/QUOTE]
What war is? Tell me your definition of war. Because I am pretty sure it is not on the same level as mine bucko. War isn't where the littelst elf comes out and hops around and gets shot and gets a miraculous recovery. Oh no, for those of you havn't even war on your own land I suggest you stop talking about war right now.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium][color=#808080]I don't know why anyone would suggest that keeping history secret in Japan is a good thing.

Make no mistake - during WWII, Japan was a murderous, horribly cruel country. We aren't just talking murder with a gun, we are talking insane and bizarre torture methods.

At the very least, the people who survived that war have the right to be respected; teaching young people about their country's past is part of that, as far as I'm concerned. Japan has no right to see itself as some kind of culturally elite country in the region, when it has visited unimaginable terror on those around it in the past.[/color][/font]