China, Japan, Korea, and something dumb.

[eleanor]

[i]So now your saying Japan is a motherland. Japan does deserve to be blamed partially for their war time past. Of course they killed "millions" of people during their Asian Domination. And Japan isn't some country that thrives over war, blood, and savage like you are describing it.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] First of all, if you ever joined a debate team, people would be ripping your guts out right now. [i]Hello[/i]. Learn how to read correctly. I never said Japan was a motherland, I said, "stop acting like Japan is some holy motherland." Second of all, in no way did I say that Japan was a country that thrived off of war, blood, and savagry. Shut up, please. I have no respect for you, so I'm not even going to try and be decent when talking to you.

Oh, so people who's country hasn't had war on their land doesn't deserve to talk about war? BS. But fine. I'm from Korea. We've had plenty of war. Let's talk war. You're right. War isn't about some elf who hops around, gets shot, and then recovers. War is a hell you'll never imagine.

Whoop-dee-doo, your ancestors went through it. So have a million others. Some kid in Iraq probably just lost his whole family. Shut your mouth.

Japan is not some special country that is exlcuded from all the other countries. There are tons of country that went through stuff that was worse than what Japan went through.

The "millions", as you so wrote, of people killed by the Japanese army has suffered more than you. [/color]

[Ezekiel]

[SIZE=1][quote name='Lady Dust']What war is? Tell me your definition of war. Because I am pretty sure it is not on the same level as mine bucko. War isn't where the littelst elf comes out and hops around and gets shot and gets a miraculous recovery. Oh no, for those of you havn't even war on your own land I suggest you stop talking about war right now.[/quote]

[COLOR=#FF0055]Pshaw, deary, almost every country has had war so you ain't excluding many people here.

Now I'm not taking sides, as I am from Britain and have no real right to, but the Japanese were heartless, killed many of our allies in WWII and even their own soldiers. Before I say any more I would like to kindly point out that I am a History student and have been studying the World Wars for three years, so please, don't tell me I don't know my facts.

The Japanese were skilful, I'll give them that, but they really didn't make many friends when it came to the wars. I think anyone who trains their army to kill themselves rather than be captured has something the matter with their tactics.

I know it's tradition, it's honour and I understand that fact, but in those times I believe that should have moved on from that.

Anyway, to my point. I think that you asking to give a 'definition of war' is silly because everyone has experienced it. Hell, we're experiencing it now, aren't we?

And for the love of God, don't ever use that 'littlest elf' thing ever again. It's shameful[/COLOR].[/SIZE]

[vegeta rocker]

i don't really see where people fighting over who lost more will settle an argument.

Everybody loses something in a war, wether it be a familay member, a friend, or sleep.

Every country has done things terrible in the past. The diffrence is being able to admit them and teach them top your children. Like in Germany and the whole east and west issue. One side was taught about the atrocities commited and what Germany was responsible for. One side simply was not.

The side not taught in school beagn going off very biased opinions of their family members and such. Long story short, skin heads began rallies and the hate started happening all over again. People looked out their doors to see swastikas flying.

if you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it. We have all heard this many times.

If yuo are trying to defend Japan over changing textbooks by saying they have basically earned the right for all they have been through that doesn't work.

your counting off of how many people died because of the atom bomb right? If history is allowed to be altered maybe one day people won't ever hear that story.

History has been changed and biased before, look at the Crusades. But if we knowingly let someone do it that is a whole other story. Especially if we try to justify and defend it.


Death is death and nobody likes a war.

Lady Dust
Just because your family didn't get a chance to prepare wins no brownie points.
They were casualties and they were not meant to be killed. The atom bomb was a something that had to be done.

Before each bomb, American planes flew over and dropped flyers everywhere in their language telling them what they were going to do. The flyers were a warning.
But the Japanese government dictated that the second you picked up a flyer to read it you were shot for treason.

The family hiding in the attic was the target, they received no warning. There is a big diffrence here.

[Xander Harris]

[I]What war is? Tell me your definition of war. Because I am pretty sure it is not on the same level as mine bucko. War isn't where the littelst elf comes out and hops around and gets shot and gets a miraculous recovery. Oh no, for those of you havn't even war on your own land I suggest you stop talking about war right now.[/I]

Huh? I don't understand how this furthers your arguement in any way... the nature of war is the whole point here. It is brutal, and savage, and people's families and family lines get wiped out. Why shouldn't that be in the history books? Seems to me to be a pretty important lesson, and you apparently think so too...

But there's another lesson to WW2... that lesson is that the world powers cannot sit on their hands while atrocities occured. Had we not appeased Hitler early in the game, he could have been stopped with little to no bloodshed. It was the same with Japan. The things they were doing to their neighbors had to be stopped, but instead my nation ignored them. It was only when the Japanese aggression reached our shores that we involved ourselves in WW2. So when is the appropriate time for intervention and pre-emption? That is the central issue in the Iraq controversy. It is a question with no easy answers, but it is a question that must be answered by all major world powers (which Japan is quickly becoming). It is only one of the many, many issues that came to the forefront during WW2 (including the use of nuclear arms). It is important that everyone, including the Japanese, understand WW2. Because the lessons and issues of WW2 didn't go away with Japan's surrender. In a way, the modern era was ushered in with that war. You cannot understand the world we live in without understanding that conflict. So, Lady Dust, do you really want your people to be ignorant of something that important?

I maintain that it is not enough to simply gloss over WW2 with "A war happened, and we killed a lot of people and did some bad ****. Those crazy Americans then proceeded to bomb the hell out of us, and we weren't too happy about it because a lot of us died. But it's all cool now, the end." WW2 was too momentous, too important, too tragic to be trivially brushed under the rug of history like that.

Wake up, Japan. You live in the real world. You are a major economic power. You need to understand the history of the world you are living in. And sometimes understanding hurts. You think it's fun for Americans to learn about some of the atrocities our troops committed during Vietnam? Or the things some of our 'great founders' did to the indians? There are Americans who want to ignore these things, just as there are Japanese who want to forget WW2. Thankfully, our media and history scholars won't let us forget. And I am glad of it. It hurts, but it is a good pain, a healthy pain. A pain that makes us a better nation as a result.

Wake up, Japan. Pay attention. The real world is knocking.

[Citrus]

[QUOTE]Huh? I don't understand how this furthers your arguement in any way... the nature of war is the whole point here. It is brutal, and savage, and people's families and family lines get wiped out. Why shouldn't that be in the history books?[/QUOTE]

Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you... :animesigh [list]
[*]Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments
[*]Art of the World
[*]Other culture's achievments
[/list]

That's what. And I think Japan should close it's doors to America. China did it and look how far they came along. Props to China, boo to America. America coud be the "greatest" country but those poor immigranst don't know what they are getting themselves into.

America could be a land of opportunities, but it really isn't all that great. And I think all Japanese items should be drawn out of America. They should take out the people and bring them home, take out the car's, food, anime, manga, language. The American children could still learn about Japan, but they just won't have a taste on it.

And I think that's why all guns and missiles are pointed straight at America. Face it everyone hates them. And I can see why.

[Tigervx]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal] Dear god... The Ignorance... It burns...

America the largest Econmy in the world, Japan wouldn't survive without American trade. China is only thriving since they have traded with America and other forieng countires. The Soviet Union failed because it had economic flaws, one of which was no free enterprise. Japan could take away economic support from us, and all it would do is destroy itself. Besides, Japan has free trade. The only was to stop them from trading with America is a dictatorship or reform of the system, and the people just won't let that happen.

Also, everyones missles pointed at us? Care to give us an example of such a country? Russia only had missiles pointing at us (And vice versa) because we WERE THE POWERS. We were the world powers. We alone threatened each side. The leader of Nato in a sense was America, and the Leader of the Warsaw pact was Russia. Should war break out, us two countries were the ones with the most Nuclear Weapons and thus the largest threats. Besides that, who else has missles pointing at us? Britian? We've never been closer allies. India/Pakistan? They don't have enough. Norht Korea? Sure, but they barely have missiles. And they'd sooner use them on Japan or South Korea then on America. No countries has the technology or the power to outmatch us in a militarist duel.

And also, what exactly did then Japanese do in the past that is important? They stole their language from China, they were isolated till the 1800's, and comparing them to other powers such as the Greeks, Romans, Chinese, and Mongols, they didn't contribute much to the world as a whole. Instead, they stayed on their islands squabbling during the Sengoku Jidia period and had no contact with other countries after the Mongol Invasion until the 1800s.

And I am also a 14 year old, but your views on History prove that Japans educational system is flawed.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Sara]

[quote name='Lady Dust']Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you... :animesigh [/quote][font=trebuchet ms]No one is attacking you because you are a "14 year old Japanese girl." That has [i]nothing[/i] to do with any of the points here except your own. You are arguing, but nothing you say supports your arguments.

Someone asked "Why shouldn't [the nature of war] be in the history books?"

You replied with: " Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments, Art of the World, Other culture's achievments." That is not an answer to the question that was asked.

[quote name='Lady Dust][i']And not teaching the events that my country of Japan did in the past is in fact doing good for the students. It's supposed to be sheltered from them because they will not likely to repeat again later on. Isn't that what history is about Godelnesensei?[/i][/quote] You grew up not knowing that World War Two had taken place. I don't understand why you think this is a good thing. I don't understand why you think "sheltering" students from historical facts is something that should be done.

Something so overquoted I am reluctant to say it here, but I will: "Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

You suggest that [b]the events that Japan did...are supposed to be sheltered from students...because they will not likely to repeat again later.[/b] Your sentence is terribly ambiguous (The [i]events[/i] need to be sheltered from the [i]students[/i]? Who is the 'they' that 'will not likely to repeat again'?) My point here is not to pick apart your writing, but to try and understand what you are saying.

Please, explain. What do you mean?[/font]

[vegeta rocker]

Nobody is picking on you Lady Dust; they are just pointing out your misconceptions.

Japan couldn't survive on its on, heck its never been able to. You want to take everything japanese related out of america? I guess you really are just fourteen years old. '

History happened for a reason, if you don't know about it; how will you ever know the reason?

[Roxie Faye]

[QUOTE=Lady Dust]Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you... :animesigh [list]
[*]Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments
[*]Art of the World
[*]Other culture's achievments
[/list]

That's what. And I think Japan should close it's doors to America. China did it and look how far they came along. Props to China, boo to America. America coud be the "greatest" country but those poor immigranst don't know what they are getting themselves into.

America could be a land of opportunities, but it really isn't all that great. And I think all Japanese items should be drawn out of America. They should take out the people and bring them home, take out the car's, food, anime, manga, language. The American children could still learn about Japan, but they just won't have a taste on it.

And I think that's why all guns and missiles are pointed straight at America. Face it everyone hates them. And I can see why.[/QUOTE]
[color=#9933ff]Attack the 14 year old girl? You were the frickin' one who started this arguement, and now we're the ones doing wrong? Oh please, don't give me that. And don't even start with "This debate's not fair because there's only one of me and many of you" because it doesn't fly with me. In my early days of net surfing I got in so many arguements and debates with other people with only me against them, and I never used a lame excuse like that.

America has a lot of bad points, but they have a lot of good points too. And there isn't a country that doesn't have both good and bad points, so I don't see how that arguement has any weight whatsoever.

Like Tigervx said, there's no way Japan could survive on their own without economic exchange between itsself and America. Go ahead, tell Koizumi to try. See what happens. o.-

And not everyone hates America, just to let you know. I know you say that the immigrants have it bad coming to this nation, but I doubt America can be worse than a war torn African nation where idiots with guns can barge into your home anytime, an extremely poor post-soviet nation, or even Iraq for that matter.

Your last paragraph is also funny because I was discussing politics with my father who is Thai, today. Born in Thailand and lives there. He doesn't happen to like Bush - hell, Bush has pissed off about everyone (myself included), but it doesn't mean he doesn't like America, or other Presidents (he does like Nixon's diplomacy & prefers Clinton to Bush). Please learn to separate a people & culture from its politics.


Alright, I've entertained your silly digrassion long enough. You do understand that it has nothing to do with the issue at hand & that your leading away from the real topic on purpose.

I forget who said it, I think it was you, Lady Dust, actually, that *some countries* have never seen War first hand. If that was supposed to be directed at America, I laugh. The Civil War was fought on American soil. It was freaking fought against our own countrymen, which makes it that much more brutal.

I've tried to be very diplomatic about it before, but I seriously concur with Lunox, and those who have made good arguements along those lines. And I feel you're being a total pain in the *** about this.

Wake up and smell the roses. Ignoring history won't make it go away. For Japan to run away from it's past speaks volumes for its character as a country (or lack thereof).

And my hands are also shaking as they write this, and were shaking when I wrote my last post, too. [/color]

[eleanor]

[i]Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you...
Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments
Art of the World
Other culture's achievments

That's what. And I think Japan should close it's doors to America. China did it and look how far they came along. Props to China, boo to America. America coud be the "greatest" country but those poor immigranst don't know what they are getting themselves into.

America could be a land of opportunities, but it really isn't all that great. And I think all Japanese items should be drawn out of America. They should take out the people and bring them home, take out the car's, food, anime, manga, language. The American children could still learn about Japan, but they just won't have a taste on it.

And I think that's why all guns and missiles are pointed straight at America. Face it everyone hates them. And I can see why.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] Oh please. You don't even have the guts to respond to me, the one person who has been repeatingly attacking what you've said. Yeah, I'm attacking the 14 year old Japanese girl. You going to do something about it or just sit there and spew out random and unrelated topics to try and protect your damned dignity or whatever the hell you're living on.

Japan would die without America. It might as well just sink under the damned sea.

America could be the "greatest" country? Those poor immigrants don't know what they're getting themselves into? Do you think any other country is more nice to immigrants or something? Do you even know what it's like to be an immigrant minority in the US?

It astounds me that you can be so elitist about your country. Do you realize that American culture is something that a lot of Japanese youths fantasize about?

I don't understand where you're coming from. Did you ever recieve some part of your education in Japan or have you lived in Toronto your whole life?
[/color]

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=Lady Dust]Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you... :animesigh [list]
[*]Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments
[*]Art of the World
[*]Other culture's achievments
[/list]

That's what. And I think Japan should close it's doors to America. China did it and look how far they came along. Props to China, boo to America. America coud be the "greatest" country but those poor immigranst don't know what they are getting themselves into.

America could be a land of opportunities, but it really isn't all that great. And I think all Japanese items should be drawn out of America. They should take out the people and bring them home, take out the car's, food, anime, manga, language. The American children could still learn about Japan, but they just won't have a taste on it.

And I think that's why all guns and missiles are pointed straight at America. Face it everyone hates them. And I can see why.[/QUOTE]

I don't even know why I'm replying to this... most of it is gibberish.

You didn't address my points or arguements, played the victim card, spouted something about "Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments, Art of the World, Other culture's achievments.." whatever the heck that was supposed to mean.

Then you went into how Japan should return to an isolationist policy. This at least is a lucid statement. Do you know ANYTHING about your own country's past? Or it's current economy? For one thing, you need us to (literally) help put food on your tables. The part of the U.S. I live in ships large quantities of food to Japan... without the rest of the world, you simply wouldn't be able to eat. Honestly, what do they teach you about in those schools? Apparently not reality. Sheesh.

Edit: *reads public profile* You live in Toronto!?! You don't even live in Japan? I don't get it...

[Citrus]

[QUOTE]For one thing, you need us to (literally) help put food on your tables. The part of the U.S. I live in ships large quantities of food to Japan... without the rest of the world, you simply wouldn't be able to eat. Honestly, what do they teach you about in those schools? Apparently not reality. Sheesh.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should look where you are shipping to Japan. Heh, 99% of the people in Japan eat grown crops in their own land. You ship the foof here and then we turn around and sell it to other countries, pretty clever if you ask me. And we learn about how great America can be, give me a break. I have been there once and I would never step foot on American soil again.

[QUOTE]I don't understand where you're coming from. Did you ever recieve some part of your education in Japan or have you lived in Toronto your whole life?[/QUOTE]

For all of you, I lived in Japan for 13 years. Lived in Toronto for 9 months, we were goign to move to Australia but that didn't get across. My father sells military weapons to countries like France, Germany, and Australia. We are moving back to Tokyo, Japan.

[QUOTE]And my hands are also shaking as they write this, and were shaking when I wrote my last post, too. [/QUOTE]

I am making a lot of people's hand's shake. While I keep my cool, this is kind of funny. Maybe I should be one of those UN member's speakign for Japan...

[QUOTE]You replied with: " Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments, Art of the World, Other culture's achievments." That is not an answer to the question that was asked.[/QUOTE]

I didn't choose to answer his question. If you read the lower half of my post you can see that, I said that is what should be in Junior High text books.

[QUOTE]You grew up not knowing that World War Two had taken place. I don't understand why you think this is a good thing. I don't understand why you think "sheltering" students from historical facts is something that should be done.[/QUOTE]

This is actually starting to get fun..

I think it is a good thing because we (the students of Japan) shouldn't be taking in such information until the College/ University level. Sheltering the fact of our wars from our students until a later age is a great idea. Not many children can understand the fact of a world war. Their brain's aren't as developed, so the Japanese school system waits until a later age for the children, who are now young adults and teach them then.

They would now understand what Japan did and why we went to war. You can't teach a 9 year old " Japan flew a couple of plane's into Pearl Harbor. America who significately declared they were not going to enter the World War did. Thy spent months, years, to make a perfect bomb. The perfect bomb was made and dropped on two cities at two different times. Those bombs killed thousands, like that of Sadako the Crane Girl. America won the war and Japan was left to recover from the events that had happened."

They simply could not understand that, it's just not right.

And for all of you guys, I attended an Elitist School during my lifetime in Japan. ;) Oh and can someone give me a site on how Japan tortured Korea and China. Thanks.

[Japan]

[QUOTE=Tigervx][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal]They stole their language from China
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


They didn't exactly steal the Chinese language. The Japanese language was influenced by it, but that's it.

[QUOTE=Lady Dust]Everyone attack the 14 year old Japanese girl why don't you... :animesigh [list]
[*]Ancient Civilizations and their Achievments
[*]Art of the World
[*]Other culture's achievments
[/list]

That's what. And I think Japan should close it's doors to America. China did it and look how far they came along. Props to China, boo to America. America coud be the "greatest" country but those poor immigranst don't know what they are getting themselves into.

America could be a land of opportunities, but it really isn't all that great. And I think all Japanese items should be drawn out of America. They should take out the people and bring them home, take out the car's, food, anime, manga, language. The American children could still learn about Japan, but they just won't have a taste on it.

And I think that's why all guns and missiles are pointed straight at America. Face it everyone hates them. And I can see why.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]WTF? What you said made absolutely no sense as many have stated before hand. Have you read no history books ever?? Many came to America seeking a better life because of oppression and starvation. Remember Einstein? He came here because of WW2 and the Nazis. Pilgrims? They came here to escape religious oppression in Britian. Irish? A lot of them came here when that potatoe famine occurred. Pretty much all of them did seek better life in America. A chance to get back on their feet.

If Japanese goes into isolation again, do you think they will survive? Answer is no. Remember when the a lot of European Jewish were all sent back to Israel after WW2? There were hardly any room for them to move in. That made the Palestinians have to move out and that caused havoc. Japan is a small country as it is with very many people in it. Most of the country is mountainous meaning that only certain parts can be lived on.

If they withdraw, many people around the world will be upset. Video game, anime, cars, and manga are just some of the biggest industries that everyone around the world enjoy.

Almost all countries love the US. I know. I've been to almost every country in Europe. The French are just bull headed. Britian are really nice to us. When I was living in England, they were the nicest people I met.

Props to China? They are a Communist country for crying out loud. They stand for everything the US is not. They don't pay their people very much money, and females aren't favored over there much. Why do you think that there are mostly girls that are up for adoption over there?

Many countries don't hate the US. We help them out in time of war, and other needs. We did a lot to help in WW2. For example, the highest numbers of deaths from D-Day were mostly American. We did a lot for the French. We saved their country from the nazis.

I don't remember who said it, but I read that North Korea are aiming toward Japan than America. I totally agree with that. [/COLOR]

[Xander Harris]

[quote name='Lady Dust']Maybe you should look where you are shipping to Japan. Heh, 99% of the people in Japan eat grown crops in their own land. You ship the foof here and then we turn around and sell it to other countries, pretty clever if you ask me. And we learn about how great America can be, give me a break. I have been there once and I would never step foot on American soil again.[/quote]

Huh? Please, let me know where you got this statistic from... I'd love to know how that works... look at the size of Japan. Look at your current population. Unless you subsist on air, you most certainly do need imports to feed your people.


[Quote=Lady Dust]For all of you, I lived in Japan for 13 years. Lived in Toronto for 9 months, we were goign to move to Australia but that didn't get across. My father sells military weapons to countries like France, Germany, and Australia. We are moving back to Tokyo, Japan.[/qoute]

Well, then, if your isolationist policy is put into practice, it looks like your daddy is out of work. Think before you type.


[quote name='Lady Dust']I am making a lot of people's hand's shake. While I keep my cool, this is kind of funny. Maybe I should be one of those UN member's speakign for Japan...[/quote]

I hope, for Japan's own sake, that you never are the one 'speakign' for them...



[quote name='Lady Dust']I didn't choose to answer his question. If you read the lower half of my post you can see that, I said that is what should be in Junior High text books.[/quote]
And I assume you actually have a good reason for ignoring the question? Ignoring valid questions and arguements in a conversation is a great way to make yourself look like an idiot.


[Quote=Lady Dust]I think it is a good thing because we (the students of Japan) shouldn't be taking in such information until the College/ University level. Sheltering the fact of our wars from our students until a later age is a great idea. Not many children can understand the fact of a world war. Their brain's aren't as developed, so the Japanese school system waits until a later age for the children, who are now young adults and teach them then.

They would now understand what Japan did and why we went to war. You can't teach a 9 year old " Japan flew a couple of plane's into Pearl Harbor. America who significately declared they were not going to enter the World War did. Thy spent months, years, to make a perfect bomb. The perfect bomb was made and dropped on two cities at two different times. Those bombs killed thousands, like that of Sadako the Crane Girl. America won the war and Japan was left to recover from the events that had happened."[/quote]

For that matter, you shouldn't teach [I]anyone [/I] that. WW2 is much more complex and important, as I stated earlier, to teach it in such an abridged, slanted, and downright flippant manner.

I'll let someone else handle your flawed, but at least not entirely invalid, idea about the correct age to teach history to children.

[quote name='Lady Dust']And for all of you guys, I attended an Elitist School during my lifetime in Japan. ;)[/quote]

Point being?

[Tigervx]

[quote name='Lady Dust'] ;) Oh and can someone give me a site on how Japan tortured Korea and China. Thanks.[/quote]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal] This site contains photos from the massacre of Nan Jing. I only show this to those who believe that the Censorship of such events should continue. Please do not look if you are young or impressionable, the imagies are very gorey and disturbing.

[URL=http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/index.html]Photos from the Massacre at Nan Jing[/URL]

[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]If you ever feel like reading a book, you can also read [U]The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II[/U]
by Iris Chang.

Also, like I mentioned before...another good book to read is [U]FlyBoys[/U] by James Bradley, even though it mostly concentrates on American fighter pilots. It still talks about the atrocities of what happened in China.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1][quote name='Lady Dust']Maybe you should look where you are shipping to Japan. Heh, 99% of the people in Japan eat grown crops in their own land. You ship the foof here and then we turn around and sell it to other countries, pretty clever if you ask me. And we learn about how great America can be, give me a break. I have been there once and I would never step foot on American soil again.[/quote]Sorry to burst your bubble, but Japan is no longer self contained. It's not even the imports that would hurt you. It's your export. You're (Japan in general) manufactured goods come to where? Ahh, yes. America. Without the export money, the Japanese economy would sink like a toy ship in a tsunami.

[quote]For all of you, I lived in Japan for 13 years. Lived in Toronto for 9 months, we were goign to move to Australia but that didn't get across. My father sells military weapons to countries like France, Germany, and Australia. We are moving back to Tokyo, Japan.[/quote]No one really cares.

[quote]I am making a lot of people's hand's shake. While I keep my cool, this is kind of funny. Maybe I should be one of those UN member's speakign for Japan...[/quote]Their hands shaking is a bad indicator for [I]you[/I], not them. In case you don't know, it means you're being [I]ignorant[/I], not cool headed.

[quote]This is actually starting to get fun..[/quote]I'm glad being ignorant is "fun" to you.

[quote]I think it is a good thing because we (the students of Japan) shouldn't be taking in such information until the College/ University level. Sheltering the fact of our wars from our students until a later age is a great idea. Not many children can understand the fact of a world war. Their brain's aren't as developed, so the Japanese school system waits until a later age for the children, who are now young adults and teach them then.[/quote]I'm in 10th grade (year 10) and know quite well what happened on D-Day (Saving Private Ryan is a must-watch), horrors of the Holocaust, and in general the horrors of war. It's safe to say that I can comprehend the atrocities of such events, even though my brain isn't fully developed. The college/university level is way too late. By then, they won't believe the teacher -- they had been taught otherwise all their life. Even I must admit, I didn't know exactly how terrible war was in 3rd grade, but I did know it was a bad thing, and that WWI and II were big, bloody, and in general bad. My grandfather told me how he got his purple hearts in combat, and how gruesome it was. I'm glad I know what happened; it helped cradle me into the harder, more obscene realities of war.

[quote]They would now understand what Japan did and why we went to war. You can't teach a 9 year old " Japan flew a couple of plane's into Pearl Harbor. America who significately declared they were not going to enter the World War did. Thy spent months, years, to make a perfect bomb. The perfect bomb was made and dropped on two cities at two different times. Those bombs killed thousands, like that of Sadako the Crane Girl. America won the war and Japan was left to recover from the events that had happened."

They simply could not understand that, it's just not right.[/quote]No, what's "just not right" is the gross understatement of what happened at Pearl Harbor. Oh yeah, a "few planes were flown into Pearl Harbor," and all the sudden, we leapt into the war? No. How would you feel if I said:

"Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Heh. We just dropped two bombs, and a few people died. But that's all clean, nice and wrapped up history, right?"

I'm sure you'd be beyond pissed. It sickens me how you oversimplified the deaths of so many soldiers in some fanatical kamikaze strike. I'm pretty pissed -- about as much as if I were to have said the above statement to your face. And then spat in it. Multiple times.

[quote]And for all of you guys, I attended an Elitist School during my lifetime in Japan. ;) [/quote]That's very nice, but [B]no one cares[/B]. In fact, it's further hurting your own point. If you go to an elitist school, I'm assuming they accept only the best. And if even the best don't know history, they're pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel in other parts of the world.[/SIZE]

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=Tigervx][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal] This site contains photos from the massacre of Nan Jing. I only show this to those who believe that the Censorship of such events should continue. Please do not look if you are young or impressionable, the imagies are very gorey and disturbing.

[URL=http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/index.html]Photos from the Massacre at Nan Jing[/URL]

[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Wow. No wonder the Chinese are so pissed about the altered history books... shockingly horrible things were done to them, and done with joy and abandon....

Lady Dust, please read this website before you post in this thread again. It might give you a better perspective on what we are talking about here...

[Citrus]

[QUOTE]No one really cares.[/QUOTE]
"Retribution" people asked me if I lived in Toronto all my life or just a couple of years. So I was answering their question, that doesn't give you the right to say no one cares. Please read the previous posts before reading mine, thanks.

To the rest of you I loved hearing your comments. And after viewing that site I was moved. I feel bad for those of who's ancestors were killed in Nan Jing. I apologize for my ancestor's actions.

The pictures did make me turn my head away from the monitor once in a while. Then I would look back in disgust on how my ancestor's played with the Chinese that way. It simply is not right.

Though I will always have pride in my land of The Rising Sun, I will always know in the back of my head what my people have done. Thank you everyone and I would love to have another debate, not as heated as this one, again sometime. Well except "Retribution" who kind of used the tsunami thing and no one care's.

"Retribution" never I mean never usae the tsunami card on me again. My older sister died in Thailand that day. So don't you EVER bring up Tsunami again, until you have experienced it yourself bucko. So back off and if I ever, I mean ever, hear you talk about tsunami's you will be hearing from Natsu Hiroshima.

[Delta]

[COLOR=#95005E][SIZE=1][b][i]Argumentum ad hominem.[/i] - argument against the person.[/b]

Please. Let's not bully each other into pettiness. It's killing the educational aspect of this thread.[quote name='Tigervx][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Teal]And I never understood what made the Atomic Bombs so horrific. The same year American Bombers fire bombed Tokyo and killed 100,000 people, yet the atomic bomb only killed 70,000 people from both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. People say it?s a war crime, but conventional warfare still proved to be much more lethal then the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]Yeah but the long term effects were unlike anything the world had seen. They were unknown to the developers until the survivors acquired [i]really[/i] weird diseases. Sadako, I think, was two when she was exposed to the radiation from the atomic bomb.

Then again...[quote name='The True Health Effects of Radiation']Dr Sohei Kondo, professor emeritus of Osaka University, asserted low acute radiation from atomic explosion could reduce the cancer mortality, and increase life span.[/quote][URL=http://www.ecolo.org/documents/documents_in_english/health-effects-radiation-04.ppt.]Source[/URL]

[QUOTE=Lady Dust]
I think it is a good thing because we (the students of Japan) shouldn't be taking in such information until the College/ University level. Sheltering the fact of our wars from our students until a later age is a great idea. Not many children can understand the fact of a world war. Their brain's aren't as developed, so the Japanese school system waits until a later age for the children, who are now young adults and teach them then.[/QUOTE] Indeed.
It's something that shouldn't be taught at an early age. Let them learn about neutral stuff like Mathematics and the Arts. It'll help them prep their young minds so that later, when they receive information like war atrocities committed by sides and the justifications they make, they will be able to weigh them out and think for themselves.

See, even if you don't read it in the school textbooks, you are bound to find out about it later. You've got documentaries, books, tons of stuff about the subject. Like Discover Channel specials.

But please do not confuse "delaying the study of History to a riper age" with "altering histories for students". I am very much against the latter. It's a factual recording of events! A wrong interpretation may stay with an individual, especially the lazy-types who do not bother to read other books, for life. He'll be like a walking idiot in the eyes of other people, much more to those like him but believe the opposite.

The answer lies within the depths of Discovery Channel.
[i]Oooooom...[/i][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=Lady Dust]"Retribution" people asked me if I lived in Toronto all my life or just a couple of years. So I was answering their question, that doesn't give you the right to say no one cares. Please read the previous posts before reading mine, thanks.

To the rest of you I loved hearing your comments. And after viewing that site I was moved. I feel bad for those of who's ancestors were killed in Nan Jing. I apologize for my ancestor's actions.

The pictures did make me turn my head away from the monitor once in a while. Then I would look back in disgust on how my ancestor's played with the Chinese that way. It simply is not right.

Though I will always have pride in my land of The Rising Sun, I will always know in the back of my head what my people have done. Thank you everyone and I would love to have another debate, not as heated as this one, again sometime. Well except "Retribution" who kind of used the tsunami thing and no one care's.

"Retribution" never I mean never usae the tsunami card on me again. My older sister died in Thailand that day. So don't you EVER bring up Tsunami again, until you have experienced it yourself bucko. So back off and if I ever, I mean ever, hear you talk about tsunami's you will be hearing from Natsu Hiroshima.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you understand now, and I'm also glad you still have pride in your country. Despite all my problems with it, I do still have respect and pride for my country, even though I know some of the horrible things we've done in the past.

No one wants Japanese people to spend their days mourning the sin of their ancestors. But we do want people to be aware of the past, for all the reasons stated in this thread.

Understanding the bad things your country did in the past doesn't mean you have to hate your country. What it does mean is that you learn the lessons of the past, and become a better person, and indeed a better nation as a result.

Have a great night, Lady Dust.

James Bierly

EDIT: And I agree... the tsunami thing was a poor choice of words...

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] ...

I am sorry for being an ***, but I fail to believe that you can just suddenly change your whole outlook on this. Judging by your light comments of how 'amusing' we were, I can not see your post as anything but something you wrote just to end this.

[/color]

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1][QUOTE=Lady Dust] Well except "Retribution" who kind of used the tsunami thing and no one care's.

"Retribution" never I mean never usae the tsunami card on me again. My older sister died in Thailand that day. So don't you EVER bring up Tsunami again, until you have experienced it yourself bucko. So back off and if I ever, I mean ever, hear you talk about tsunami's you will be hearing from Natsu Hiroshima.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if I over stepped my bounds on the "no one cares" line. I suppose I was pretty angry at that point.

And the tsunami "card?" In no way was I using the tsunami to insult you. It was meant as a simile to a bigger point, and had nothing to do with whatever actually happened in "the" tsunami.[/SIZE]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]And once again, Retribution says everything that I would like to say. ^_^' You're really good at that, you know.

Lunox - it is rather possible that her outlook has changed, at least somewhat, from viewing those photos. I have always learned about WWII throughout the years, and I especially understood how bad the fighting in Europe was, because of the Nazi's, but until I took Asian Civ. this year, I had no idea of how much worse and brutal the Japanese were. Either that, or she's just lying to, like you said, to wrap it up & move on. I would hate for it to be the latter, and have her keep believing in ignorance.

I would like to say that I don't think university level is a fair time, at all for students to learn about their countries atrocities. What if you decide not to go to college, or (because the percentage of sudents going on to college in Japan is so high) you decide not to take that class? [b]It needs to be mandatory.[/b] Every high school student in Japan needs to know what went on. And like someone else pointed, there a big difference between saving all the gory, bloddy stuff (9 year olds don't necissarily need to know about the Rape of Nanjing. ;/) until one is other, and [b]propagating lies[/b] about Japan's involvement in WWII.


P.S.: I don't think Retribution's "Tsunami" comment was completely aimed toward the Dec. 26/25 tsunami in particular, but more of a culture reference that Japan experiences Tsunami's frequently. Hell, they invented the frickin' word. It was definitely a poor choice of words, but now you know how angry we've all been throughout this entire thread. lol. (And my dad lives in Thailand for God's sake, so don't you dare play the "You don't know what it feels like" card on me.)[/color]

Edit: Damn. You beat me to it by a couple seconds, Retribution! Ah, well. :/ *shrug*

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1][QUOTE=MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]And once again, Retribution says everything that I would like to say. ^_^' You're really good at that, you know.

P.S.: I don't Retribution's "Tsunami" comment was completely aimed toward the dec. 26/25 tsunami in particular, but more of a culture reference that Japan experiences Tsunami's frequently. Hell, they invented the frickin' word. It was definitely a poor choice of words, but now you know how angry we've all been throughout this entire thread. lol. (And my dad lives in Thailand for God's sake, so don't you dare play the "You don't know what it feels like" card on me.)[/color]

Edit: Damn. You beat me to it by a couple minute, Retribution! Ah, well. :/ *shrug*[/QUOTE]
LMAO! A special bond we share. Telepathy, perhaps.

And yes, Roxie, it wasn't a comment aimed at poking fun at the tsunami victims. It was truly a horrendous incident, and likewise I would never joke about so much death. It was aimed towards a more general tsunami, as in the really uber-huge wave, not the most recent one.

Yeah, I was pretty pissed when I wrote that, and I guess I didn't think twice about something like that. I'm somewhat reluctant to say sorry after you laughing at Japan's war crimes.[/SIZE]