My other computer...

[Bloodseeker]

My other computer is so bogged down with viruses and spyware that I can barely use it for anything asside from word documents and gaming. (and it takes a really long time to load the latter)

I've even got spyware programs and viruses that prevent me from getting rid of other spyware programs and viruses. A fully updated Spybot and a fully updated McAfree can't even detect what's preventing them from getting rid of the problem.

I want to wipe out the hard drive to get rid of everything and start from scratch, but my mom's insistant that I don't pull out the old backup disk and get to work. What a pain.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]My computer is constantly getting spyware and crashing, so we split out hard-drive. When it crahses, we can reformat one drive and leave the other one alone, and that's where we always transfer our files. I'm not letting a stupid virus make me lose my files.[/COLOR]

[Kamuro]

Well, there wasn't really a question to this post, but yeah, spyware and such is definitely a problem. It seems to bother me no matter what program I download to try and block it out. Some people just sit at home all day creating viruses and ways to get past firewalls. Its pretty annoying, but you should be use to it by now.

[Bloodseeker]

What a bunch of pricks. Destroying random people's computers isn't exactly self-beneficial. You probably don't get any money out of it. And since they don't get to see their victim's pissed off reactions, I can't see how it would even be gratifying.

[Lord Dante]

It used to be gratifying because crafting a virus was near impossible. people crafted them and sent them out into the world to prove their sublime mastery over a computer and all of it's elements.

but poeple like that suck. viruses suck. the person who invented viruses i'm sure was related to gengis khan.

[SunfallE]

Personally I haven't had many problems with spyware or virsus, but most of my friends have had lots of problems. I know since I'm usually the one who fixes their computer for them. :animeswea I agree with [COLOR=DarkGreen]Lord Dante and Bloodseeker[/COLOR] people who create virsus are basically [B]losers[/B]

I've done computer tech support and I remember when the Blaster virsus hit, we were so busy helping people get their computer working again. I felt bad for them as it was so frustrating for them to have problems and yet have no idea how to fix it. They had to waste hours of their time on the phone waiting for a tech because some lowlife loser wrote a virsus. Personally I think if they manage to catch them that the penality isn't strong enough. I think most of them don't even end up serving any jail time.

[Kamuro]

I'd feel prety bad to if I had to pay a computer technician $90 an hour to fix my computer. It wouldn't surprise me if they made the viruses themselves and sent them out. The more problems for other people, the more money for them. I'm so diabolical :D

[Lord Dante]

[quote name='x kakashi x']I'd feel prety bad to if I had to pay a computer technician $90 an hour to fix my computer. It wouldn't surprise me if they made the viruses themselves and sent them out. The more problems for other people, the more money for them. I'm so diabolical :D[/quote]
that's true. i know someone who tried to write a virus, and an antivirus for it, and then send out the virus, and charege people like £100 for the antivirus. thankfully, he got hit by a virus before he could complete his. ahh... the irony.

[SunfallE]

[quote name='x kakashi x']I'd feel prety bad to if I had to pay a computer technician $90 an hour to fix my computer. It wouldn't surprise me if they made the viruses themselves and sent them out. The more problems for other people, the more money for them. I'm so diabolical :D[/quote]

LOL to tell the truth, those of us who were on the bottom rung so to speak often wondered. After all programs like MacFee only upgrade for a year and you have to go buy another version. :animesigh It wouldn't surprise me to find out some of the virsus actually came from companies that produce anti-virsus software, or any other company that would get a financial gain from the virsus causing problems. :animesigh I'm cynical enough that not even the president is free from being suspected. ;) Mind you I'm not a conspiracy theory type of person, but I fimly believe in the corruption of large corporations. :animesigh One of the areas where I am not proud to be American. :animesigh

[Bloodseeker]

[quote name='SunfallE']LOL to tell the truth, those of us who were on the bottom rung so to speak often wondered. After all programs like MacFee only upgrade for a year and you have to go buy another version. :animesigh It wouldn't surprise me to find out some of the virsus actually came from companies that produce anti-virsus software, or any other company that would get a financial gain from the virsus causing problems. :animesigh I'm cynical enough that not even the president is free from being suspected. ;) Mind you I'm not a conspiracy theory type of person, but I fimly believe in the corruption of large corporations. :animesigh One of the areas where I am not proud to be American. :animesigh[/quote]

I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I'm usually the first to think of the profitting problem fixer as the potential problem causer as well as the first to point my finger at large corporations as the cause of many of our problems. Maybe I can find a way to look into this...

[JenniKate]

[QUOTE=SunfallE]
I've done computer tech support and I remember when the Blaster virsus hit, we were so busy helping people get their computer working again. [/QUOTE]I used to work in tech support and I don't think I have ever worked so hard as I did when the blaster virus hit! It was hell.

From that day alone I have cursed all people who create virus's.
I don't understand what the thrill is
ooo you created something that caused millions of people to get peeved and yell at the poor tech's that are just trying to help :mad:

Anyways it now seems that spyware is the new thing people like to build.
Our tech guys spend half their time recommending spyware removal programs just so customers can get their machines functioning so they can use the Internet again.

I'm with you SunfallE, I think there are companies out there that are causing problems so people will buy their software to fix it.... I just wish they'd give us some of the profit's for recommending them ;)

[Godelsensei]

Simple solution: [b]get a freakin' Mac.[/b] There's a certain smugness that attaches itself to one after being told that file that was not compatible with your operating system was some kind of hard drive-destroying son of a ***** worm or whatever.

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=JenniKate]I used to work in tech support and I don't think I have ever worked so hard as I did when the blaster virus hit! It was hell.

From that day alone I have cursed all people who create virus's.
I don't understand what the thrill is
ooo you created something that caused millions of people to get peeved and yell at the poor tech's that are just trying to help :mad:

Anyways it now seems that spyware is the new thing people like to build.
Our tech guys spend half their time recommending spyware removal programs just so customers can get their machines functioning so they can use the Internet again.

I'm with you SunfallE, I think there are companies out there that are causing problems so people will buy their software to fix it.... I just wish they'd give us some of the profit's for recommending them ;)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I remember it all to well when the blaster virus hit. We were putting in 60 and 80 hour weeks to keep up with the calls. I only got some time off as I had already applied for vacation before hand and it was already approved. After two weeks of living at work, three days off was like being in heaven.

I agree, we recommend so many software programs to people and yet they get all the profit. Sure you might pay $35+ for Tech support, but many techs don't really get paid to much. In Utah your are lucky to get between 10-15 an hour. Many companies only pay around 8 an hour here. Utah wages suck! :animeangr

[quote name='Godelsensei]Simple solution: [b]get a freakin' Mac.[/b'] There's a certain smugness that attaches itself to one after being told that file that was not compatible with your operating system was some kind of hard drive-destroying son of a ***** worm or whatever.[/quote]

Well, hate to tell you but there are viruses that are designed to attack a Mac Operating System. I've friends who have Mac computers that have gotten a virus. The only smugness that you can count on is that most virus creators are primarily interested in getting as many people as possilbe. Since the market is mostly PC based, most viruses are written to affect that type of system. If the market was primarly Mac's then the argument would be to get a PC and not a Mac as the virus creators would then be targeting Mac's instead of PC's. They don't really care which type of computer you have, they only want to get as many people as possible.

And another thing, alot of people get viruses because they lack the knowledge to protect themselves from being attacked. There are preventive measures that one can take to minimize the chances of being comprimised by a virus. Take the Blaster Virus. Microsoft had issued the patch at their update site for over 3 weeks before the virus even hit. Since many people don't update regularly, they were open to attack. Then many people don't even use a firewall, which would have protected them from the virus even if they didn't have the patch installed. As a tech, the main solution we were telling people to do was to enable the firewall that comes with Windows XP and then directing them to the update to install the patch.

Many of my friends think computers should run without any maintaince, but would you drive your car forever without putting any gas in, changing the tires, or having oil changes done? It's the same with a computer. it needs regular maintaince to keep it running smoothly. :animesmil

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]Actually, that's why our entire school district runs on emacs (the white ones). We have the white laptops too, but they don't work because the kids abuse them and they don't know what they're doing, either.

But uh, yeah, they used emacs so they don't get viruses. =D

God, I don't think I've ever really gotten a virus. My computer in general, is just a piece of crap.

I've gotten tons of spyware, and I can't even get rid of it all. It drive me crazy! Argh! x_x You all say the people who created viruses need to die. Well, whoever invented harmful [b]spyware[/b] should be tortured and killed. >:/ [/color]

[Bloodseeker]

Let's not forget about adware either. Having to wait through random advertisements while trying to load a page can get almost as annoying.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]This is what happens when [B]clueless idiots[/B] use [b]IE[/b] to troll through dodgy websites, download [B]Kazaa[/B] and generally don't run any tests. I use Firefox, run AdAware and AVG regularly [AVG every day, AdAware once a week] and I don't download and install things I know nothing about. It isn't difficult to avoid malware [be it viruses, spyware, adware etc.], all you have to do is take sensible measures.

Or use a Linux build.[/size]

[Bloodseeker]

Yeah, never touch Kazaa or Gater. I think that they're responsible for the initial flow of spyware and viruses that I got on my other computer.

[Fall]

My computer is the machine from hell. Well actually, it looks quite nice from the outside. But once you press the power button in, all hell breaks loose. If you're at my house, and need computer access, you'd be better off buying a whole new computer.. 'cos the time it takes to buy a whole new computer system and set it up.. you'd still be loading up my machine. :smoke:

[Red]

[quote name='Lord Dante']that's true. i know someone who tried to write a virus, and an antivirus for it, and then send out the virus, and charege people like £100 for the antivirus. thankfully, he got hit by a virus before he could complete his. ahh... the irony.[/quote]

Since this would pretty much count as extortion, I'd be pretty interested to see how (or if) he got away scot free - virus writers are hit pretty hard with the legal book for acts like that. Also, how he managed to write something that couldn't be picked up by the pattern engine of a decent anti-virus program.

[quote name='SunfallE']It wouldn't surprise me to find out some of the virsus actually came from companies that produce anti-virsus software, or any other company that would get a financial gain from the virsus causing problems.[/quote]

Judging by the amount industry loses every year (an estimated $10-15 billion in 2004) to virus attacks [i]alone[/i], I very much so doubt that within the realm of technological possibility a company would be able to send a virus out for financial gain without it either affecting them at some point, or it not being traced back to them.

[quote name='Godelsensei']Simple solution: get a freakin' Mac. There's a certain smugness that attaches itself to one after being told that file that was not compatible with your operating system was some kind of hard drive-destroying son of a ***** worm or whatever.[/quote]

Sorry, a Mac isn't a solution at all, it's a preference. The lack of widespread malicious software for the Mac is a phenomenon that can normally be put down to it's complete lack of market share when put up against Windows-based PCs, as SunfallE has mentioned.

There are an abundance of competent coders who could easily spend a short while whipping up a reasonably damaging Mac-based virus. But to what end? The idea of a virus is that it is a self-propagating piece of software - malicious damage intended or not. With Mac's as they are, the effort a coder has put in is overshadowed by a complete lack of capability in terms of damage done.

Something like MSBlast was so effective due to it attacking an exploit in a service that is, by default, running on every Windows machine. That kind of exploit doesn't exist on any Macs; even if it did there wouldn't be enough of them to effect.

[quote=Baron Samedi]This is what happens when [b]clueless idiots[/b] use [b]IE[/b] to troll through dodgy websites, download [b]Kazaa[/b] and generally don't run any tests. I use Firefox, run AdAware and AVG regularly [AVG every day, AdAware once a week] and I don't download and install things I know nothing about. It isn't difficult to avoid malware [be it viruses, spyware, adware etc.], all you have to do is take sensible measures.

Or use a Linux build.[/quote]

Clueless idiots? That's a rather misinformed stab in the dark - I can't see how bolding would help that leap to a conclusion. When a person buys something new their primary concern isn't necessarily whether or not something that comes from nowhere will destroy their new toy.

Unless you're running a firewall with that pair of programs, your machine is probably more infected than you think and open to further attack attempts.

Also, Firefox being more secure than IE is a common misconception - it's just a browser that barely holds 4% of the worldwide share at the moment. It's the same principal as Macs, it just isn't popular enough for someone to bother taking advantage of it's vulnerabilities. The Mozilla team simply [i]update more often[/i], Microsoft don't. As someone who took advantage of exploits, would you rather attack something that 84% of users run, or 4%?

Kazaa is hardly a malicious piece of software, rather more like an advanced cookie. And "sensible measures" would be the internet equivalent of fortifying your computer, you need more than just what you're running to keep your machine completely safe/clean.

Linux builds are irrelevant, as it's designed for more advanced users.

At the core of it all, developers are what eventually allow malicious software to do it's thang, so to speak. When creating software more security testing needs to be done (especially as applications grow larger and more complex), but this costs time & money, something which big companies are not too fond of.

Knowing why virus writers do what they do? Well, you'd have to ask them yourself. Political reasons, boredom, money, personal reasons... with some coding knowledge it's not the most difficult thing to accomplish.

If anybody's interested a far more comprehensive computer health guide will be stickied in [url=http://otakuboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14]PC/Mac[/url] in the coming days. The current one is rather dated. ;)

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Red]
Judging by the amount industry loses every year (an estimated $10-15 billion in 2004) to virus attacks [i]alone[/i], I very much so doubt that within the realm of technological possibility a company would be able to send a virus out for financial gain without it either affecting them at some point, or it not being traced back to them.
[/QUOTE]

Well I can't argue with that. My earlier statement was a bit generalized. After all when the Blaster virus hit Microsoft had to dish out quite a bit of overtime pay for us to work on the problem. In that respect the additional pay would overshadow any gain. I don't suspect Microsoft, I'm only using them as an example to why your statement is accurate. :animesmil

[QUOTE=Red]
At the core of it all, developers are what eventually allow malicious software to do it's thang, so to speak. When creating software more security testing needs to be done (especially as applications grow larger and more complex), but this costs time & money, something which big companies are not too fond of.

If anybody's interested a far more comprehensive computer health guide will be stickied in [url=http://otakuboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14]PC/Mac[/url] in the coming days. The current one is rather dated. ;)[/QUOTE]

Amen to that, I've only had a few programing classes and it takes a lot of time just to make a small application secure. The idea of doing so for something more complex like an operating system is just mind boggling!

Thanks for the info about the upcoming PC/Mac information. I'll be looking foward to it! :animesmil

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote=Red]
Clueless idiots? That's a rather misinformed stab in the dark - I can't see how bolding would help that leap to a conclusion. When a person buys something new their primary concern isn't necessarily whether or not something that comes from nowhere will destroy their new toy.

Unless you're running a firewall with that pair of programs, your machine is probably more infected than you think and open to further attack attempts.

Also, Firefox being more secure than IE is a common misconception - it's just a browser that barely holds 4% of the worldwide share at the moment. It's the same principal as Macs, it just isn't popular enough for someone to bother taking advantage of it's vulnerabilities. The Mozilla team simply update more often, Microsoft don't. As someone who took advantage of exploits, would you rather attack something that 84% of users run, or 4%?[/quote]Yeah, I use ZoneAlarm firewall too. Forgot about that.

Maybe clueless idiots is a bit harsh, but there ae so many people who go ahead and use IE, Kazaa, and download and install everything from MySearch Toolbar to Desktop Buddy. I'd wager that most people are aware of the problems all of this could potentially cause. But then, the users complain when their machine gets taken down. Clueless is definitely the right word... and I think that helping to protect my 'new toy' would be a relatively important concern.

"49,818,775" downloaded is over 4% of the market share, I'm positive. I thought Firefox had around 12%....but not too sure about that.

[b]Edit[/b]: Make that [u][url=http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/software/article.php/3500691]10.28%[/url][/u].[/size]

[Roxie Faye]

[size=1][color=#9933ff]So Firefox has 10.28% of a market hold. It still makes it a minority to the amount of people who use IE. I hope you were just stating statistic for the sake of stating statistics because it doesn't help your point whatsoever. lol.

I don't think clueless is the right word for everybody, either (okay, in the following paragraph, don't include the MSBlaster thingy, which, according to my knowledge, attacks your system when you turn it on for the first time, or something like that).

The thing is, computers are relatively new, and not everyone knows how to use them. And when I say relatively new, think about it. The first computers, (Colossus & ENIAC) were built in 1943 & 1945. We have WWII vets still living today. Not everybody has grown up with these things - so it's not surprising that not everyone knows how to use them; much less protect themselves from viruses & spyware. As there becomes more and more of a push toward a more computer-integrated society, it does force older people to start using the internet more. [b]But[/b], because they're older (and even people in their 50's and 60's), they have a harder time learning how to use computers and such, much less running a slew of programs like anti-virus & spyware, as well as setting up a firewall.

And with those 50 - 60 year olds who are still working (like my mom; she's in her early early 50's), she doesn't have [i]time[/i] to learn all that stuff and remember it. I mean, for me, personally, I've learned to use my computer by trial and error. I didn't even know what spyware [b]was[/b] until I was googling something, and a website came up with the info I wanted. But at the top, it had a code programmed in it, and it told me all the spyware I had in my computer. It took me [i]that[/i] long to figure out there was something called spyware, because before then, I'd never even [i]heard[/i] of it. Why should I be afraid of the boogey man & lock my door at night if I've never heard of him? It's the same idea.

The generation of people grown up with computers constantly in their lives - the way the telephone (a piece of "technology" if you will) was always there for those WWII vets, more people will know how to use their machines, and schools - even primary schools will have more of a chance to offer more and more computer 101classes and such. I mean, just recently, my school district for grades K-8 set up the curriculumn so that the teachers could teach their students how to properly evalutate websites for content & use databases of originally print material as more reliable sources. When I went through the system just a few years ago, I had none of that.

So it will take some time before it's second nature for everyone to always run anti-virus, spyware detecting programs & firewalls, but they'll get there, eventually. [/color][/size]

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][size=1][color=#9933ff]
I don't think clueless is the right word for everybody, either (okay, in the following paragraph, don't include the MSBlaster thingy, which, according to my knowledge, attacks your system when you turn it on for the first time, or something like that).
[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Well I know you said don't include MSBlaster, but....it does apply to this situation as what it does is shut down your computer when it connects to the internet if you don't have a firewall running or the patch installed, not when you turn the computer on. :animeswea And I agree, clueless is the wrong word to use. A better one would go along the lines of un-educated. Not that people are dumb, just unaware of what they need to do to protect themselves.

[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][size=1][color=#9933ff]
The generation of people grown up with computers constantly in their lives - the way the telephone (a piece of "technology" if you will) was always there for those WWII vets, more people will know how to use their machines, and schools - even primary schools will have more of a chance to offer more and more computer 101classes and such. I mean, just recently, my school district for grades K-8 set up the curriculumn so that the teachers could teach their students how to properly evalutate websites for content & use databases of originally print material as more reliable sources. When I went through the system just a few years ago, I had none of that.

So it will take some time before it's second nature for everyone to always run anti-virus, spyware detecting programs & firewalls, but they'll get there, eventually. [/color][/size][/QUOTE]


Yeah, it will take a while. :animesmil And it doesn't help that the technology keeps changing at a rapid pace. They didn't have any basic computer classes when I was growing up, but my father was a computer science theory teacher at a university when I was a kid so I ended up having computer in the home for over a decade before they became more common in the home.

I think once people get more use to how it works like you said, running anti-virus, spyware programs and firewalls will be second nature. ;)

[Red]

Excellent points in your post, Roxie. ^_^

[quote name='Baron Samedi']Yeah, I use ZoneAlarm firewall too. Forgot about that.[/quote]

Which is rated as one of the most incompatible & poorly built firewalls available. Does that make you clueless? ;)

[quote]Maybe clueless idiots is a bit harsh, but there ae so many people who go ahead and use IE, Kazaa, and download and install everything from MySearch Toolbar to Desktop Buddy.[/quote]

And what would you suggest they use as a browser? The points in my original reply to your message still stand (considering you're pretty much saying the same thing), I don't think I should copy & paste.

Things like toolbars can be 'downloaded' through a simple misclick, even the most advanced users do it from time to time as it's hard to avoid. Some deliberately download because they think it will enhance their browsing experience - how is an inexperienced user supposed to be able to tell the difference?


[quote]I'd wager that most people are aware of the problems all of this could potentially cause.[/quote]

You would be wasting your money.

[quote]But then, the users complain when their machine gets taken down. Clueless is definitely the right word... and I think that helping to protect my 'new toy' would be a relatively important concern.[/quote]

For the sake of argument, let's say you buy a shiny new top of the line car (an analogy already used in this thread), and you know nothing about the intricate workings of it. The various buttons - controlling everything from air conditioning to a glutaeus warmer - are numerous and their functions are difficult to understand; let alone looking under the bonnet.

You want to try and see what this car is capable of, what it's ideal settings are, but what happens if you hit the eject button while barreling down the road? You'll have to shell out for a new car, hardly a cheap commodity. At least, that's what most think. Maybe the car isn't wrecked, but the internal temperature's stuck at -34 degrees & the engine sounds like a bear on fire, how would an average/casual driver know what to do?

Of course users complain when their machine dies. Again, why do car recovery services exist? Not every single person is a mechanic, able to stop by the roadside & attempt to fix whatever's causing problems.

As for thinking it's relatively important to help protect your new toy - how can you protect against something you know nothing about, or not have knowledge of it's existence? ;)

[quote]"49,818,775" downloaded is over 4% of the market share, I'm positive. I thought Firefox had around 12%....but not too sure about that.[/quote]

Hmm, my mistake for thinking of the previously released 4% and not the recently published results.

However, Firefox could have 5 billion downloads and still be left with 1% of the market share - the number of downloads is simply a statistic of how many times it's been taken off the host server, not how many unique machines are using it.

Since Firefox has no true patching method (a new version of the browser is an entirely fresh install), people who already it & are just updating add to that figure. Network admins mostly allow their users to choose what browser they'd like to use, so multiple downloads are recorded from one IP... and so on.

7 years ago the way I used my computer was atrocious - if I used my current machine the same way now I'd be better off setting it on fire for a light show. Over time, I learned how to make it a bit of a tougher nut to crack & [i]why[/i] it needed to be so.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]OK. I was wrong. What I said was unfair, but only to a degree. I think that there are lots of people who with a little effort could help protect their machines, but they don't bother. Perhaps I am being judegmental and overly harsh, but I don't understand how people can not take any precautions. My stepsister downloads anything and everything. Her laptop is so bloated it disgusts me.

Perhaps I'm just more of a careful person.[/size]