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[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]I've been sitting here for the past 10 minutes trying to think of a new topic to post, quite unable to think of anything. I want a nice break from the type of topics we have now which are lighthearted and good, but I really miss those cool, deep conversations that we sometimes have.

Ice Dragon's recent topic was great, for it made me think. So, what I intend to make you do, is think. Now if only I could *think* of a topic...

Ah, I know...

*Back when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 the government claimed to know nothing in advance about the attack. Yet others claim that perhaps FDR and his advisors DID have warning about the attack, and merely used it as an excuse to enter into WWII.

Something to Consider: The US had started the draft a year and a half before the attack.

Japanese Motives?: Overconfidence, hatred for Americans? Saw the US as too soft and lazy to do anything about it? The US shutting them off from oil?
*Some even say Japan "awoke a sleeping giant" when they attacked us.

So, after that little history lesson, do [b]you[/b] think that FDR used the attack as an excuse? Or was he really that niave to not even know of it at all?[/color]

[Guest]

Well, i think they used it as an excuse...;)

[RicoTranzrig]

[COLOR=darkblue]I think that FDR just didn't want to discourage any american's hearts to say that they knew the Japanese were coming. It was kinda obvious that Hawaii is exposed...and they did have a fleet there...which was destroyed...They knew it was going to happen, just didn't know when...or how (IE: kamikaze pilots).[/COLOR]

[Pave-Low]

The Main reason Japan attacked us was because of two main things.

1. They where expanding throughout the pacific and needed to take key oil resources and grow ever so close to the us. The japan new how the us would react to such thing so they knew a War with the US was inevitable.

2. They uswed their heads here, War with the US was inevitable so why not gain thwe upper hand quickly. They knew a well planned and executed suprise attack on the US fleet in Pearl Harbor could cripple the US Navy and give them the advantage.

The accomplished what they set out for but to only a small extent. The US prove to be a superb industrial giant as well as fighting machine. We where able to repair and build a fleet to combat the Japanese quicker than the expected. I think the Japanese where hoping to end our chances of fighting with the pearl harbor attack but as Yamamotot said, japan had awoken a sleeping giant.

[PiroMunkie]

[SIZE=1]I really wouldn't know. And we really can't know, because it was in the past, and from the past we only know so much about it. We can know that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. And we can know that FDR declared it [i]"A day that will live in infamy."[/i], but we can't know what FDR knew or what FDR didn't know, because it was never told. It's like ancient Greek culture in the way that we know about their gods, we know of their stories, and other stuff. But we don't know how people lived their lives day to day. We don't know what went on with the individual people themselves. So since we only know so much about certain things, the real truth can never be known.[/SIZE]

[Transtic Nerve]

Naw... I think the US might have known or had information on a strike by Japan, but they couldn't act on it... just like they knew an attack by terrorist was imminant, they just couldn't do anything about it.

The Japanese were and are very smart people. The leader of that attack, Admiral Yamamoto, was an absolute brilliant man.... He attacked the US violently and quick and boom.... ofcourse the US had many ships out at sea at the time, so not as much was damaged as the Japanese hoped for.... However, the Japanese made one VERY critical mistake.... they attack the US.... that was their mistake.... but... they attacked the US once and nothing more... I think it was said best in the movei "Pearl Harbor"... "The only attack is the attack of surprise" and once they attacked Pearl Harbor they lost that surprise feature they so needed.... true had they continued to California or the west coast they culd have and would have done MUCH more damage and maybe even destroyed over 50% of the Pacific United States Naval Fleet... but, I'm sure the US would have responded very quickly... but just that would have certainly damaged the US much much much more then Pearl Harbor.... and the US wouldn't be able to focus on the European war, but on japan first, unlike real life, in which they did the opposite, taking care of Europe first then attending with Japan... Had Hitlers army never been defeated first, the Atomic Bomb most certainly would have been used on them.... but Japan got the lucky bid... and then THEY got the attack of surprise.... odd how that worked out....

BTW Admiral Yamamoto was killed in a battle in the pacific.... when the US basically destroyed all of Japanese Naval fleet.... i can't remember the battle.... the Japanese were gonna lose no matter what, we just made it quicker by dropping Fat Man on Hiroshima.... and they still wouldn't give up, shows how much pride they have and how strong they are even without their most prized fighting force, so we dropped Little Boy on Nagasaki.... the Japanese got the message loud and clear... the next target would have been Tokyo......

Just imagine what the world would have been like if the Japanese won... Australia would be Japanese... America.... maybe even the world.... it's a very interesting though.... WWII was a huge step in the growing of this world we live in....

0-0;; I can't believe I typed all that.

[Raquel]

that was suprisingly interesting... history is much better this way

[Anti]

I have in r/l had this discussion before with a few people....and I tend to lean towards the side that FDR knew the attack was going to happen.....I agree with Piro in that we will never really know.....but it can still be dabated....anyway just think about it.....A war is going on in Europe and Japan is begining to expand it's own empire...... America is doing what it can but the general populance still don't want to go to war.....A few however saw the war good for a couple of things..like it would boost the econmy out of what it was after the great depression...I think FDR knew the japanese would attack hawaii if he left it exposed and that would give him the perfect reason to join in the WW...so pearl habor became a martyr for the cause and caused the americans to flame up exactly how FDR was hoping they would giving him the perfect oppertunity to enter the US into the war.....

[Justin]

I think FDR knew that Japan was going to attack. Just as we knew that Bin Laden would come back to haunt us one day. I don't think FDR intenionally withheld the information about an attack from Japan in order to have an excuse to enter WWII. I just think there was nothing he could do about it.

-Justin

[Ice Dragon v2]

Here's something that no one posted.
The attack took place on a Sunday morning at 8:00. (der)
But here's the catch on why it was a Sunday morning. From on what I heard, it said that there was a reason it was a Sunday because people are tired or at church and FDR also ordered the Pacific Fleet to stay in Pearl Harbor. I heard that it was a conspiracy from Britain so the U.S. can join the war effort. Then all things broke loose.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was a set-up. A set-up that costs the lives of civilians and military personnel alike.

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ice Dragon v2 [/i]
[B]
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was a set-up. A set-up that costs the lives of civilians and military personnel alike. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Heh, uh...that's what this topic is about. So no one should correct you, I was asking for your opinion on whether or not you believed it was a big conspiracy. So you [i]do[/i] think it was, and that is your opinon :)[/color]

[Turkey]

I think that the japanese believed that the surprise attack would have made the US lconcentrate less on Europe. Then they would've probably joined up with another country so they had backup in case of a counter-attack. I believe that Fat Man was the main (if not the only) reason they didn't succeed...

[Surpreme Kai]

Well I think that the Japan knew the us would attack them soon enough so they wanted atleast to do some destructuon before us attacks so they attacked the Pearl Harbour and the Japanese regret it. And you'll all know what happened.

[Ice Dragon v2]

But there is still the fact that a conspiracy was in this. I dunno if it's true or not, but I heard that it was talked about during in one of the earlier conferences between Churchill and FDR. Either that or it was a telegram. But no record was ever found so therefore we can't prove it. Conspiracy or not, it was still an uncalled action.

And another thing that no one mentioned: Radar. Very big technical advance. Although radar was new at that time, the U.S. had already began installing them in ships, control towers etc. The Pearl Harbor attack could have been avoided if radar picked up two planes that was flying overhead. Those two planes were scouts for the oncoming attack team. Even though people were sleeping at the time, there could have been someone that had taken a night shift or something. Even though we were still isolated from the war, it was possible, and not entirely illegal, to watch out on what's going to happen.

[Anti]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Smoky Joe [/i]
[B]I think that the japanese believed that the surprise attack would have made the US lconcentrate less on Europe. Then they would've probably joined up with another country so they had backup in case of a counter-attack. I believe that Fat Man was the main (if not the only) reason they didn't succeed... [/B][/QUOTE]

I disagree...Fat Man was not the only reason the U.S. suceeded.....After the attack on Pearl habor The U.S. launched what little was left of the pacific fleet to counter anymore Japanese operations....where they quickly found out there fighters were inferior to the Japanese......so they geared up fleet and fighter production plus Fighter development.....The Axis started out with stronger forces but the Allies had bigger industrys so as the war drew on the Allies started to gain the upper hand because they had larger resources and/or bigger industry.....Anyways....After a lot of fighter devolpment the U.S finnally develpoed fighters that could hold their own against the japanese and begin to take back the war on the pacific front.....after that Napon(i know i spelled that wrong), the Japanese Empire for all those who don't know, planed to ambush the U.S forces and if it wasn't for sheer luck the U.S spotted the fleet waiting in ambush and then proceeded to finish off the Napon fleet.....If we hadn't have spotted it who knows what happened.....but Fat Man wasn't the only reason the U.S. one...it was also because of it's large Industry and Luck.....it merely sped up the Seige of Japan.....

[Dragonfire1477]

Ok I know I'm a little late for this but let me put in my 2 cents. First off there were NO kamakazes in the bombing of Pearle Harbor. The Japanese used them, but they came later. And our fleet was NOT destroyed. I forget the exact statistics but they sank a destroyer and some smaller ships, and damaged even more. However, they didn't hit out subs, which was a mistake on their part. Try watching the movie "Tora Tora Tora", it was made right after WW2 and it's increadibly accurate.
The funny thing is, the Japanese had already declared war on the US by the time the attack commenced, but the message was delayed by some ill-supplied troops. And we did know that it was coming at least a few hours before it happened, but those in higher power didn't want to believe the people who knew about it. So many lives could have been saved if it hadn't been for some Admirals and their power trips. *whew*
So in conclusion I don't think FDR knew about the attack until after it actually happened. It's like the famous quote form the Japanese Admiral Yamamoto: "I fear we have only awakened a sleeping giant, and filled him with enmity(i think thats the word he used).

[coolkam007]

eh.. i think that japan wasn't purposly trying to supprise attack.. i think there was some errors.. the original plan would be to declare war then moments later the attack would take place..

eh.. i'm not sure.. but its a theory.. ^^ the US is a buncha jerks with bombs.. lol j/p of course.. ... about the bombs that is .. :p we sell those to little countrys with lots of money..

lol

[Transtic Nerve]

Like I said, the Japanese were smart... they knew what they were doing when they attacked... luck of the Irish, or well... Americans I suppose in this case... most of the imortant ships were out at sea during the attack on Pearl Harbor.....

The Japanese were cocky.... they had already taken over the eastern side of China... Taiwan, Korea if I'm not mistaken... heading toward Australia... Philipines....... they justthought they were gods, which by any means they aren't :p, and they could get the US.... but well... they failed... no one can be perfect and one's limitations are soon breached.... Now, the Americans are cocky!... ironic how that worked out.

[coolkam007]

i suppose attacking another country with a high power nuclear device can do that to a group of people..