Politics... your view?

[Bloodseeker]

As the topic title asks, what's your view on politics? Any strong opinions on current policies, domestic or otherwise? How about certain political parties or groups? Your view on nationalism? Liberal or conservative?

I believe in a sort of moderation in all things political.

Its true that if we put our complete trust in the government and let them do whatever they ask, they'll take the opportunity to remove most of our rights. I've been hearing rumors flying around lately that they want to pull a Russia and filter our newspapers. That's a clear violation of the first amendmanet, the most important entry in the bill of rights. Same thing goes for the patriot act. If people didn't say anything, there probably wouldn't have been enough appeals to make them even consider lessening the power of the patriot act. But on the other hand, how are government programs supposed to do their jobs if nobody trusts them enough to use them? Or what about the law? If the average law-abiding citizen didn't trust the police, how would they get the eye-witness accounts that sometimes lead them to more tangible evidence in a crime?

Likewise, both extreme left winged and extreme right winged views on things are pretty stupid. Yeah! Let's throw all of our money on those WMDs so that we can kill anyone that messes with us or has something that we want! We can turn the whole world against us in the process! Bring it on losers! Hu-wah! Wait no, the other guy's right. Let's just disarm our military and become a bunch of passifists that wouldn't have the ability to act effeciently if somebody attacked us, as well as put hundreds of thousands of military personel out of the job. Actually, you both suck. I've got a better idea. Why don't you keep the military about the size that it was when Clinton left office, make an easily accessed program that helps discharged soldiers find jobs, research those weapons, and make a small supply of them just in case something does happen? There's no good commonwealth-benefiting reason to be throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars that could be being used to fund our schools, hospitals, and even our police forces.

[Shinmaru]

My parents are both Republicans, so I went down that path for quite a while. When I got near the age where I could actually vote, I started researching political parties a bit more. At the time, I was pretty dissatisfied with the Republicans, and I've honestly never been interested in joining the Democrats at any point in my life. I don't think it should be as black and white as "You have to be either a Democrat or a Republican!!111!" So, I took joining a third party as a pretty serious option.

At first I just registered as an Independant, because I was a bad decision maker at the time. But after delving into things a bit more, I became pretty impressed with the Libertarian party. I basically agree with their party on just about any issue you can think of, which is pretty remarkable to say the least. I ended up voting for Michael Badnarik in the presidential election, though I knew he didn't have a chance in hell of winning. It's the principal of the matter, people. I'd rather vote for someone I have confidence in rather than one of the two major candidates I see as the lesser of two evils. That's a pretty ridiculous reason to vote for someone, I think.

I hope that in the future many more people will see third parties as legitimate options to place their confidence in. Right now, it's like the "Citizen Kang" short in The Siimpsons Treehouse of Horror VII where there are two horrible candidates (Kang and Kodos) running for office, but nobody will vote for a third party because Kang taunts everyone by saying "Go ahead, throw your vote away!" Pretty on the mark, sadly. I do think that as time goes on more people will go to third parties rather than relying only on the big two. It'd sure be nice to live to see that day, though. :p

[Bloodseeker]

A vote for a guy that you know isn't going to win is a vote wasted. Mere principals don't count for much in America. At this point, the only two parties that the general public really recognize are the republicans and democrats. If you only have two people that are likely to win and a bunch of others that you know don't stand a chance, its best to give your vote to the one that shares at least some of your views and give the scum a tiny bit more resistance, if that makes sense.

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='Bloodseeker']A vote for a guy that you know isn't going to win is a vote wasted. Mere principals don't count for much in America. At this point, the only two parties that the general public really recognize are the republicans and democrats. If you only have two people that are likely to win and a bunch of others that you know don't stand a chance, its best to give your vote to the one that shares at least some of your views and give the scum a tiny bit more resistance, if that makes sense.[/quote]

I realize what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. In any election (not just presidential, but any type of election) I'm going to vote for the candidate who is most satisfactory to me. If that person just so happens to be from a third party, then so be it. I can't in good conscience vote for somebody other than who I feel is the best person for the job. If that leads to 'wasted' votes, then there's nothing I can do about that. It's just the way I feel. Nothing will change in this country unless people actually [i]do[/i] something about it. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm participating in some third-party revolution, or something, but I'd like to think that every little bit counts toward at least a tiny bit of positive change.

Voting for one of the two major candidates doesn't really jive with me, anyway, since both parties have their strong points and weak points with me. For me, that basically boils down to deciding whether economic issues are more important than social issues or vice versa (I mostly agree with the Republicans economically and the Democrats socially, by the way). I don't think that either one is more important than the other.

[sbrebaby]

[COLOR=Purple]um... This is a delicate topic and it is our opinion. My parents voted for Bush in the last presidential elections. I personally would never have voted last year if i could've voted because of the picking the lesser of two evils. If i could vote i would vote for [SIZE=3]who ever i thought was the right one.[/SIZE] no matter if they were going to win or not. I would rather waste a vote on someone who doesnt have a chance than put in a vote to some one who might be the lesser of two evils and make our vountry worse. It wouldn't be right if my ballot was the winning one and i don't even like the guy. So if i could be in the whole political crap. I would do what i thought was right. Politics are so, inmature. You have two adult males who political bash each other. It is sickening. I mean grow up. People are always telling me to act as though i was mature. Why can't adults act their age? I mean who in their right mind would like to sit and accuse someone you don't even know or anything and say things you don't even know about. I mean grow the hell up. If i have to act older then why don't they? It makes me mad when people tell me i am too inmature and don't know what i am talking about, when in all reality i do. I can see things. I love america but man do we have some stupid people in it. I could never see my self living here when i am older. I don't want to. I cant handle "if you don't vote your not patriotic." The hell i ain't i am just as patriotic as the next person. Just be cause i wouldnt vote for some loser i think would make my country worse doesnt make me an outcast. :mad: I.. I am mad. i will stop here and let some one else take over,. [/COLOR]

[Bloodseeker]

[quote name='Shinmaru]Nothing will change in this country unless people actually [i]do[/i'] something about it.[/quote]

The only something that can change anything is for someone famous to use their influence to get the mass media to give a lot of publicity to whatever third party group. Most people aren't going to recognize them as anything more than filler unless the mainstream media "tells" them otherwise. That's just how most people in this country are...

Until that happens, you're better off using your vote to try to keep the worst evils away from the top tiers of our government.

[sbrebaby]

not if you dont believe in it. The person could end up being a total jack a**

[DeathBug]

I'm a conservative; we really should be teaching folks to fish instead of just giving them fish. I'm actually pretty libertarian, but I vote Republican for the time being, because I'm a realist.

[James]

[color=#737373]Using the American names for political parties, I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican.

However, I can define some broad areas where I lean more left or right. On issues of finance and defence, I tend to lean more to the right. On issues of society and civil rights, I lean more to the left. On the question of welfare specifically, I'm a combination of left and right (I believe we should provide services to people, but we should also try to train people for the workforce).

In a broad sense, I never feel that one side is right or wrong. This is because it doesn't match my world view; I don't think that the world is that simple. The world isn't a "Republican or Democrat solution". In reality - as a realist - I understand that one subject in life might be tied to many others. I understand that human society isn't a particularly simple thing and that solutions often need to be multi-faceted. It isn't good enough to make one broad stroke if that broad stroke leaves a lot of people out on a limb. I think you need to have nuanced approaches to problems, because problems themselves contain nuances and variations.

My attitude with politics isn't that "all candidates are inherently corrupt" or something like that. I don't view that as realistic. I tend to view it as ignorant, too. Instead, my feeling is logical; no matter who I vote for, there will be areas where I'll disagree with them. Even if a candidate does 99% of the things I want, there's still that 1% that I won't be happy with.

In reality, even a 99% support is totally unrealistic. It's usually more like 50/50 or something. In regard to Bush, for example, I think that many of the broader aspects of his foreign policies are what the world needs. People always complain that world leaders are complacent about dictators and despots, so I'm glad that someone is doing something about it. My feeling is that this represents a longterm view, with the aim of ultimately having a completely democratic world (which therefore dissolves the motivation for political and religious extremism).

Having said that, I disagree with many of Bush's social policies and I think that some of them represent several steps backward.

So, I can't think of any situation where I'd totally support a politician. No matter who they are, there are going to be things that I won't agree with. Even though I agree with the fundamentals behind the current foreign policy of president Bush, I don't always agree with implementation. So even there, I have plenty of disagreements and differences.

Therefore, I could never simply say that I'm conservative or liberal. I tend to think that being completely conservative or completely liberal represents a black-and-white way of thinking, which [i]isn't[/i] realistic at all. In both of those cases, people have a view of the world that involves moulding others to fit their own definition. My approach is different; it assumes that not everyone is the same and that there are a wide variety of views and belief systems out there. That in and of itself demonstrates that a solution to a problem often requires a multi-pronged attack and not a simple "conservative" or "liberal" approach.

In regard to nationalism...I think there is a place for it, but it has to be centered around reason and logic. Being insanely nationalistic just for the sake of it is pointless, to me. In that case it simply comes down to ego and can be counter-productive. But by the same token, I don't agree that the world should be one giant country with no borders. That's kind of the opposite side of the coin and I think it's just as bad as "extreme nationalism".[/color]

[Godelsensei]

Being extremely right or left wing is, in itself, stupid. You can't hold on to what has "always been" forever and you can't just run around changing everything for the sake of it.

I would never vote for a party that refused to accept the fact that the world is changing and that people are different. Similarly, I would not want a party with no concept of what is realistic holding more than fifteen seats.

That said, I would like to address something that bugs me: the fact that no one seems to understand what the word "liberal" means.

[Quote=The Dictionary]1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.[/Quote]

Being liberal doesn't mean you're some sort of homeland-hating wussy with no concept of what is and isn't possible to accomplish. It doesn't mean you give a man a fish instead of teaching him to get one himself. It means you are willing to accept change.

If you look at Canadian politics, the Tories are very Albertan. Their platform tries very hard to support a Canada that isn't there. They focus heavily on rural areas, ignoring the needs of the cities and the fact that the times are changing. Which is natural, since everybody in Alberta is white and there's little there in the way of urbanization.
They have a narrow outlook. So narrow, in fact, Belinda Stronach decided she'd had it with them. (For those who don't know, she was their most influential and prominent spokesperson. She joined the Whigs recently.)

Flinging fish at people doesn't help any one in the long run, but being a hardass about the fact that people just need support sometimes doesn't either. Throwing reason to the wind lands you poor and helpless, but being unwilling to budge when the time to smell the coffee comes is ridiculous.

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]Nationalism... ehh... it's a pretty broad term, and I don't really feel like narrowing down any of my feelings on it, except for too much is bad, and too little is bad.

I'm a liberal, but I don't like how you phrased the "There's a shelter two miles from here" in the voting section. I believe that the democrats are actually looking out more for the homeless than the republicans are. Cutting taxes for the top two percentile brackets isn't what you do to help a country's economy. The Patriot Act isn't a very good idea, cutting down our rights for the sake of "stopping terrorism." Stem cell research, as far as I'm concerned, can only be a positive, possibly finding a way to help out paralyzed people, or curing illnesses previously determined incurable.

I can't help but think that the Republicans are living in a dream world, where America's funds are plentiful, and war on an unseen "terror" is how we solve problems. I'd be really unhappy with Bush if were trying to screw America over, but just his motives are enough to [I]slightly[/I] redeem his mistakes.

[quote name='Godel']Being liberal doesn't mean you're some sort of homeland-hating wussy with no concept of what is and isn't possible to accomplish. It doesn't mean you give a man a fish instead of teaching him to get one himself. It means you are willing to accept change.[/quote]*bows and worships* That was exactly what I was about to say.[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I've bascially become a politico and I can definately tell people that I'm a Democrat if they asked me what party I belonged to. Why I am is simply because my base morals and gut feelings have always agreed with Democratic views. Most of the time I'm liberal, but there are times I am conservative.

But saying that I'm 'liberal' now makes me feel somewhat embarrased.

No doubt, the biggest problem with today's liberals is that all they want is their own way. Of course, you can now say that both conservatives and liberals only want their own way, which is basically true if you get down to it. But what I believe is that the US has always and will be a naturally conservative country.

So. In all truth, if you want to be a liberal that really stands out, really makes a difference, you must be smarter, more intelligent, more capable in everything if you are to challege conservatives. The problem is that now, most liberals aren't. Now, I am NOT saying that I'm one of those super-talanted liberals, because up until recently I have been as ignorant to what being liberal really means.

And if you'll excuse me and allow me to throw away and forget all the dumb arguments in politics I've ever made, I must now come up with a different way to arguing. If I am to be 'liberal', my knowledge in diction must be good enough so that I can persuade and lead on conservatives rather than stating that 'this is what I believe and damn you better well do it'.

So seriously, if you're not up to the challenge of being a liberal, you'd be better off as a conservative.

And to anyone who is conservative: I'm not trying to bash you. Another giant problem with liberals now is that most of us are not open-minded at all. Most liberals now shun and don't even want to listen to conservatives, only because conservatives are labled so. Conservatives can always be a great base of traditional values and such. Because yes, if the country were totally run by liberals, it'd be some sort of hell. I know that for sure... ._.

But then again, I also pride in being a liberal as well. I like the idea that I would have been a person who supported inter-racial marraiges. I like the idea I would have been a person who supported civil rights.

As Mark Twain said: "The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them."

It has always been the liberals who have brought forth the regularities of the present country. [b]We're here for a reason.[/b] [/color]

[i]Stem cell research, as far as I'm concerned, can only be a positive, possibly finding a way to help out paralyzed people, or curing illnesses previously determined incurable.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] This really sparked my interest. When I first heard about the argument of stem cell research, I agreed to using it. As I said before, my base morals usually tend to be democratic and/or liberal (yes, please note I used 'and/or'). But you're always reading these famous books of 'how far is too far'? [i]Brave New World[/i], being a somewhat decent but usable example.

As far as that goes... I am not sure I can be using this point in this case. But it makes me wonder, that if liberals are always the ones pushing radical ideas and making them conservatives, would liberals be the death of us?

:3[/color]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Lunox][i]Stem cell research, as far as I'm concerned, can only be a positive, possibly finding a way to help out paralyzed people, or curing illnesses previously determined incurable.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue] This really sparked my interest. When I first heard about the argument of stem cell research, I agreed to using it. As I said before, my base morals usually tend to be democratic and/or liberal (yes, please note I used 'and/or'). But you're always reading these famous books of 'how far is too far'? [i]Brave New World[/i], being a somewhat decent but usable example.

:3[/color][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]I have confidence that we aren't in any danger of going "too far" with stem-cell research. Right now, we're trying to figure out how exactly they work, not mass-producing humans and conditioning them to suit certain jobs.

You've got to take the first step to make progress, and in making progress you always come nearer to problems. It's good to look down the road and try to avoid them, but at some point you must march, and not worry so much as if you'll run into the problem as how you'll deal with it once it arises.[/SIZE]

[boxybrown305]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I am "middle-of-the-road" when it comes to political ideals. I'm 17 now, so i'll be able to vote next election. My broad ideals, i'm sure, is due to my parents being so different from each other. My mom is a super liberal, and my dad is a super conservative. I'd be amazed beyond words to describe if either one ever voted for the other party (with the exception of [I]possibly[/I] a third party). Becuase of both of thier opposing views, i've grown up seeing both sides of the argument, and i am very suggestible to any party or ideal. Generally i am a bit more liberal than conservative, though there are many issues on both sides that i agree/disagree with.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Bloodseeker]A vote for a guy that you know isn't going to win is a vote wasted. Mere principals don't count for much in America. At this point, the only two parties that the general public really recognize are the republicans and democrats. If you only have two people that are likely to win and a bunch of others that you know don't stand a chance, its best to give your vote to the one that shares at least some of your views and give the scum a tiny bit more resistance, if that makes sense.

The only something that can change anything is for someone famous to use their influence to get the mass media to give a lot of publicity to whatever third party group. Most people aren't going to recognize them as anything more than filler unless the mainstream media "tells" them otherwise. That's just how most people in this country are...

Until that happens, you're better off using your vote to try to keep the worst evils away from the top tiers of our government.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]Like Shinmaru said, i strongly disagree with this, for reasons previously listed, but you also need to consider the fact that no third party actually has the intention of winning an election. The sole purpose of a third party is to bring about issues that the two more "dominant" parties don't yet address. Generally this brings some votes to them, though a small margin it is, it brings the issue to the other parties to consider in the future. If people didn't ever vote for third parties, new issues and ideals would rarely arise, and our country would go nowhere, not up, not down, just nowhere. For this reason absolutely [I]NO[/I] vote is a wasted vote, for third party or otherwise. Besides, if only two parties were available, or everyone only voted for the two "major" parties, it would really be only one step away from a dictatorship. Instead of "here's your new ruler," it would be "here's two guys, one of them [I]has[/I] to win, and your stuck with him for four years, possibly even ten." It's just too limiting to only consider two options.[/COLOR]

[Samsquamch]

Personally, I'm happy living where I am. In Canada we have around 15 parties to chose from, but I'm mainly Liberal/Absolutly Absurd Party. (Although the Liberals have been ******* us time after time) I kid you not, their is a part called the Absolutly Absurd Party. Failing the AA Party, I'm also for the Communist Party of Canada. I think that if anyone can make Communisim work it would be the leaders of a Red Canada (Coincadence? I think not!)

But for Republican/Democrate, I'm a Democrate, as their most like the Liberals. I think that the Republicans have really ****** up. The 2000 election really screwed me up. It sorta turned into the Wizard of Oz on me halfway through. Think about it.

Colin Powel: Dorathy, he just wants to go home to the Whitehouse
Bush Jr.: The Scarecrow, he's just looking for a brain
Dick Cheney: The Tinman, just looking for a heart
Condoleeza Rice, the wicked witch of the west, and the Republican followers as the flying monkies. GO! STEAL ME THAT ELECTION, MY PRETIES!

Finally, Bush Sen. as the Wizard of Oz. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtten! I'm just trying to get my idiot son a job!

Enough of the jokes. I do find the Republicans to be idiots in general. The Democrates are too indicisive. They both suck. That's why I'm happy I get to chose between over 15 parties, all of which hold at least SOME power.

I was all for the Hippopotomous party, which wanted to turn Manitoba into the largest parking lot in the world, and make the longest road in Toronto into a bowling ally :alcohol: . The scariest think about this party was they had 10 seats in Parlimant. Least their gone now... :alcohol: