Pity

[elfpirate]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]I had an interesting AIM conversation yesterday that made me wonder what other people think about pity.[/font][/b]
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]I really loathe pity and find it demeaning.[/font][/b]
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Though the dictionary defines it as being synonymous with sympathy and empathy, it seems to refer more to the attitude that one would feel in regards to something "pitiful"--AKA--"pathetic".[/font][/b]
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]What do the rest of you think about pity?[/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Is it okay to pity someone?[/font][/b]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Do you appreciate it when someone pities you, or does it insult you?[/font][/b]

[SunfallE]

Well for me it would depend upon the situation.

For example, take the article in theOtaku about the blooger where both him and his sister were murdered. The dictionary describes Pity as: Sympathy and sorrow aroused by the misfortune or suffering of another. And truth be told that's exactly how I feel for the poor family. :animecry: So In that situation I would say that feeling pity for someone is definately okay. I've lost someone close to me before and I remember how much it helped in the long run that people cared about my family and although at first it didn't help as the pain was too new, later once the pain had faded a bit, I never forgot those kind people who cared enough to express their sympathy.

On the other side, I've been pitied by friends because I use to have a really old car and their's were newer. At first it really bothered me, but then it became funny since I take care of my car and they neglected theirs so I was the only one with a reliable car. LOL :animesmil

So I definately think it's okay to pity someone, and I also think there are times when the pity is missplaced. And I'm equally sure there are those who don't really feel true pity but rather are putting others down and hiding behind the thought that they are charatiable.

[Umbra II]

I agree with SunfallE.
Pity shouldn't be considered an insult unless the person who is giving it is giving it with the intention of it being insulting. If some one is truly piteous of your plight, say, a person close to you died, to resent openly the pity given to you, THAT'S insulting. Truly, in my honest opinion, and with no intention to insult anyone, if you resent honest pity, you must think you don't need it. That is called pride. If I offended anyone, I apologize, but this is an open discusion.

[elfpirate]

[quote name='Umbra II'] Truly, in my honest opinion, and with no intention to insult anyone, if you resent honest pity, you must think you don't need it. That is called pride. [/quote]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Excuse my posting, if I don't make sense-- I'm trying to be coherent at an extremely inopportune time, but here goes:

I'm not insulted at all by your opinion, but I am definitely one of those that resent pity, and I really [i]don't[/i] think I need to be pitied.

Perhaps that counts as being prideful, but when I've been through something horrific or terrible, the [i]last[/i] thing I need is someone gushing "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS] You poor thing[/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS]" if I've chosen to share my experience with them.

I guess, in my mind, if I share something like that, I'm not looking for pity, but understanding of the severity of the situation and the positives it took to survive/ overcome the negatives.

"[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS]Poor baby[b]" statements don't even [i]begin[/i] to recognise courage or strength or [i]anything[/i] positive about the person's experience, so I [/b][/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS]find them insulting.

I mean, if someone truly is incapable of seeing anything beyond the scope of the negativity of the situation, why do they feel compelled to say anything other than "That's an incomprehensibly bad situation. I don't know what I would have done if that had been me..." or something along those lines--instead of "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS]Oh, you poor dear[b]" ?

I guess I can't really explain right now what I mean when I say that pity and sympathy/empathy/sorrow are not all synonymous, and that [i]pity[/i] is demeaning, whereas the others aren't.
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[ChemAngel]

the word "pity" isn't what is insulting as much as how you use that pity. Pity can be used by both the person who is pittying and the person who is being pittied on. (what an odd word the spell in that context, no?)

Anyways, pity can be sympathetic in the sense that you pity that persons misfortune and wish to assist them.

But some people use pity as a form of denouncing that person's credibility...to look down on them.

As for the person using pity...that has to be the worse. Some people use pity in order to make friends and in order to keep a relationship going. Those people get under my skin, simply because they are using the person's generosity and abusing it.

I admit that I don't like people to pity me...I feel it IS a matter of pride. One accepts sympathy better than pity...but than they are both simply words that give almost the same results. though when you are sympathetic, if feels as though you care about that person more than if you simply pity them.

You are sympathetic toward your friend, and you pity that poor dog outside in the rain. If you were sympathetic toward the poor dog, you would probably take it inside your house.

But maybe that is the play on words that society has made.

Regardless, that is my opinion. :animeswea

[Lord Dante]

i think that a line from one of the less sucky live-action video game based films must be quoted here.

"shang tsung: save your pity for the weak!"

sorry, i just couldn't resist!! XD,

seriously though i reckon that pity can be both sympathy and derogetory at the same time, i just cant explain why at the moment (serious lack of caffene) pity, in my opinion, is one of the most paradoxical things in existance.

[Umbra II]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b][font=Comic Sans MS
I mean, if someone truly is incapable of seeing anything beyond the scope of the negativity of the situation, why do they feel compelled to say anything other than "That's an incomprehensibly bad situation. I don't know what I would have done if that had been me..." or something along those lines--instead of "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS]Oh, you poor dear[b]" ?

I guess I can't really explain right now what I mean when I say that pity and sympathy/empathy/sorrow are not all synonymous, and that [i]pity[/i] is demeaning, whereas the others aren't.
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I see...
Well in that case, I agree with you. Here was I thinking that you resented pity synonomous with sympathy, when really you are resenting people who thnk that you need comfort and decide to suply it, wheras the other, sympathy, is when they truly do feel sorry for you, and wish to make it known. But don't forget, perhaps those who say " Oh, you poor dear." may actually be sorry, or, to help, sympathetic, but are at a loss as to what to say to you. But under the circumstances you described, I can see where you are coming from.

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='elfpirate][b][font=Comic Sans MS]Perhaps that counts as being prideful, but when I've been through something horrific or terrible, the [i]last[/i] thing I need is someone gushing "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS] You poor thing[/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS]" if I've chosen to share my experience with them. [/b][/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS][/font'][/b][/quote]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR="#990033"][b]I can kind of relate to you on this part, that is why there is a big difference between sympathy and pity. It's okay to pity someone just matters how you do it and what you are pitying. A good example of the right kind would be SunfallE's. It's okay to pity the family, to feel sorry for them, because yes they did lose someone close to them. But to degrade someone in pity, is another matter. If I were to pity someone for being poor openly, thats degrading someone's pride. We all have it, and I get easily insulted by people feeling sorry for me. But then again, some people like that. I guess it all depends on the situation and the person your dealing with. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/b]

[Bloodseeker]

Seriously. The last thing that I want when things are going terrible for me is people telling me that they sympathise. It just feels so... cheap. Same with praise for every little accomplishment. I hate that too. Just smile (or not) and keep your mouth shut.

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=elfpirate][b][font=Comic Sans MS]Excuse my posting, if I don't make sense-- I'm trying to be coherent at an extremely inopportune time, but here goes:

I'm not insulted at all by your opinion, but I am definitely one of those that resent pity, and I really [i]don't[/i] think I need to be pitied.

Perhaps that counts as being prideful, but when I've been through something horrific or terrible, the [i]last[/i] thing I need is someone gushing "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS] You poor thing[/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS]" if I've chosen to share my experience with them.

I guess, in my mind, if I share something like that, I'm not looking for pity, but understanding of the severity of the situation and the positives it took to survive/ overcome the negatives.

"[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS]Poor baby[b]" statements don't even [i]begin[/i] to recognise courage or strength or [i]anything[/i] positive about the person's experience, so I [/b][/font][b][font=Comic Sans MS]find them insulting.

I mean, if someone truly is incapable of seeing anything beyond the scope of the negativity of the situation, why do they feel compelled to say anything other than "That's an incomprehensibly bad situation. I don't know what I would have done if that had been me..." or something along those lines--instead of "[/font][/b][font=Comic Sans MS]Oh, you poor dear[b]" ?

I guess I can't really explain right now what I mean when I say that pity and sympathy/empathy/sorrow are not all synonymous, and that [i]pity[/i] is demeaning, whereas the others aren't.
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Personally I think saying stuff like "You poor thing" or "Oh, you poor dear" are on the insulting side. But then I would never say anything like that to someone, not even a child. I'm sure there are a few who say it that way who truly don't mean to insult you. After all I think for some people it's hard to know how to respond to others problems, espically when the problem is very negative or terriable. It's too easy to fall back on the simple saying of "You poor thing!" instead of something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I really don't know what to say." Which by the way is exactly what I will say to someone, espically when I really don't know what to say.

Quite often when I actually tell someone something terriable that happened in my life, I am not looking for pity, only someone to listen to what I have to say. Which to me sounds like what you were looking for when you told someone what had happened to you. I also know that quite often I will feel very proud that instead of becoming a victim and feeling sorry for myself, I got over the experiance and not only did I move on, but I became a stronger person in the process. Which to me also sounds like what you did.

I definately find that type of attitude very admirable and I wish more people would try to be like that. I say that cause I've got family whose sole existance is to prove that not only have they suffered more than you, but that you couldn't possible understand. >_< An attitude that sickens me.

[Hevn]

[COLOR=DarkOliveGreen][SIZE=1]Eh, I don't really feel insulted with 'You poor thing' lines, especially when I know I am really to be pitied or something lol. And really, you'll [I]know [/I]when that line is said with the intention of insulting you.

Personally, I'd prefer saying 'I'm sorry' and giving the person a hug most of the time because it's safer.

Pity isn't a bad thing when you do it properly and sincerely. *nods*[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Havokio]

[COLOR=Indigo]I don't want pity. Nor would I want some one to go easy on me, for any reason. It is, indeed, demeaning. Those two traits show that people don't respect me. I'm expected to believe a lie, which means that they take me for a fool. No matter how much the truth may hurt, it is the only way to go for me.

I also don't like to feel pitful. This may sound sexist, but I am a man. I'm supposed to find my own solutions. Not to be pitied, and not to have favors done for me because of a "situation". Pity is only second worse than being lied to.

Although help is different from pity. Pity is when other people take over, whilst help is both parties working simultaniously for the same goals.

I pity no one. I know that some people are born differently, and some have hardships, but, as humans, we can always find a solution to any problem, as long as we get off our collective *****, stop complaining, and do something.[/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[QUOTE=Havokio][color=Indigo]
I also don't like to feel pitful. This may sound sexist, but I am a man. I'm supposed to find my own solutions. Not to be pitied, and not to have favors done for me because of a "situation". Pity is only second worse than being lied to.
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Heh heh-- women don't like to feel pitiful, either, Havokio.;)

I understand what you mean, though-- that males are expected to be stronger and to [i]solve[/i] problems instead of to[i] have[/i] problems and women are expected to be ...well... pitiful damsels in distress. Stereotypes suck for both genders.

@SunfallE: Yeah, you pretty much know where I'm coming from with this topic. :animeswea

@Lord Dante: I had forgotten about that quote of Shang Tsung's-- your post made my day. :animesmil
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[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]When someone tells me about something that happened in their past, I'm like Hevn - I usually just say "I'm so sorry" instead of "You poor thing!" because I wouldn't say the latter to anyone.

I don't mind being pitied if something really bad happened to me, like my family died or something. That type of pity could be classified as empathy or sympathy. If someone pitied me because I'm poorer than they are, I'd be pissed beoynd belief, because they're just doing it to be suck-up snot-nosed brats.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the word "connotation" in this thread. Connotation is different from denotation (a dictionary definitition of a word) in that it has an attached meaning to it. Quickie lesson on Connotation: Euphoric, ecstatic, joyful, pleased, and glad are all synonyms of "happy," right? But all of them "mean" different things. When you're the most happy (maybe you went somewhere new, won a brand new convertible, or got your first kiss), you might be Euphoric. But say you have a 93 in English and you get back your essay that you wrote carefully & planned well, and the grade is a 94. You're rather pleased about the grade you got. In that situation, you would never say you're ecstatic (since you get A's on a consistent basis) or euphoric. See what I mean?

Sympathy and empathy may be synonyms of "pity" but there is a negative connotation associated with "pity" while "empathy" is rather neutral and "sympathy" is a more positive connotation. I don't know why I'm explaining all this, but I guess it was just so no one would be confused about the words in the future.




P.S.: By the way, connotation is why your English teacher tells you never to just use your MS word thesaurus when you need words - some of them can have the wrong connotation and they look really out of place in a sentence. [/color]

[Umbra II]

[quote name='Havokio][COLOR=Indigo']I don't want pity. Nor would I want some one to go easy on me, for any reason. It is, indeed, demeaning. Those two traits show that people don't respect me. I'm expected to believe a lie, which means that they take me for a fool. No matter how much the truth may hurt, it is the only way to go for me.[/COLOR][/quote]

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or not, but I get the feeling that you think people who say they feel sorry for you are lying. This isn't nessicarily so. In fact, I don't think its ever happened when, if some loved dies, for instance, that someone comes uup to you and says they feel sorry for you and your loss without actually meaning it. Even if its only when they think about how they would feel if some one they loved died that they are able to sympatise with you, and then pity you. Yu said that, since you are a man, and that pity solves nothing, therefore you don't want to hear it. While its true pity itself can't help or ease the burden (think about your state of mind at a funeral. Either your bawling your eyes out, and so in your emotional outburst you really hear the words, or your silent and not letting things sink in, which is, I suppose, the mans way of doing things{at least thats how I do things] and the words of pity wouldn't reach you.) But think of the reverse sid eo fthe coin: what if nobody came to you at the funeral, everybody ignored you, would that make you any happier? I'd much rather people show their respect for me (It IS respect, mind you) by showing they grieve the loss, than to ignore me.

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]When someone tells me about something that happened in their past, I'm like Hevn - I usually just say "I'm so sorry" instead of "You poor thing!" because I wouldn't say the latter to anyone.

I don't mind being pitied if something really bad happened to me, like my family died or something. That type of pity could be classified as empathy or sympathy. If someone pitied me because I'm poorer than they are, I'd be pissed beoynd belief, because they're just doing it to be suck-up snot-nosed brats.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the word "connotation" in this thread. Connotation is different from denotation (a dictionary definitition of a word) in that it has an attached meaning to it. Quickie lesson on Connotation: Euphoric, ecstatic, joyful, pleased, and glad are all synonyms of "happy," right? But all of them "mean" different things. When you're the most happy (maybe you went somewhere new, won a brand new convertible, or got your first kiss), you might be Euphoric. But say you have a 93 in English and you get back your essay that you wrote carefully & planned well, and the grade is a 94. You're rather pleased about the grade you got. In that situation, you would never say you're ecstatic (since you get A's on a consistent basis) or euphoric. See what I mean?

Sympathy and empathy may be synonyms of "pity" but there is a negative connotation associated with "pity" while "empathy" is rather neutral and "sympathy" is a more positive connotation. I don't know why I'm explaining all this, but I guess it was just so no one would be confused about the words in the future.




P.S.: By the way, connotation is why your English teacher tells you never to just use your MS word thesaurus when you need words - some of them can have the wrong connotation and they look really out of place in a sentence. [/color][/QUOTE]


That explains it much better than I can. :animesmil But then I've never been really good with English so it never would have occured to me to put it that way. I know by reading or by how someone words their expression of sympathy, if they are being insulting or not. But I lack the English skills to explain it as clearly as you did. I may have gotten 100% on my reading comprehension exam at college, but I totally flunked the grammer part. :animesigh Awesome job with the explaination. :animesmil

[Lord Dante]

[QUOTE]@Lord Dante: I had forgotten about that quote of Shang Tsung's-- your post made my day.
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No problem elfpirate, it was meant as a comedic quote.

[elfpirate]

[quote name='Lord Dante']No problem elfpirate, it was meant as a comedic quote.[/quote]
[font=Comic Sans MS][b]And it was taken as one, to be sure. I'm quite happy to see that some people still retain a sense of humor. :animesmil

@Mistress Roxie-- Yes, thank you for clarifying the rambling of a sleep-deprived idiot such as myself.

That's precisely what I was getting at, but was too incoherent to make my point concisely at the time. :animesigh
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[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]My position on this issue is as follows. I don't like to be pitied. Now there is different variations of this. Sometimes, things in your life go incredibly wrong, and people just don't know what to say. So they say sorry, and this is bewcause they really do feel sorry for you. This does not bother me, although it really doesn't offer any help, I don't mind it.

However, I do not like the feeling of being someone else's charity case. Pity can be overdone, and I don't want to be cared for by someone who is only doing so because they feel sorry for me. I refuse to accept any help most of the time, and all I tell myself is that most people are well-intentioned. This helps me get by most of the time.[/SIZE]

[SpiritWolf]

Pity is an emotion caused by the feeling that another is helpless. You feel sorry for them. It is rather demeaning, and yet we all instinctively seek it. Just one more of the peculiarities that make psychology so darn interesting.

[Momiji Love]

[SIZE=1]Pity is not bad.But it is not good also.In some ways.

When I think of pity,I think about when someone feels sorry for you and wants to say something to make you feel better.Sorta.Like Andrew.Our friendship started off as pity.He felt bad for me because I live such a sheltered life (in his opinion) and I he thinks I don't know much.But now we treat pity as a silly thing.I say I hate being stupid (jokingly) and he says "I pity you and your stupidity." and other things.

Its not so good when someone says is just to be saying it,or treats an entire relationship as a big ole pity party.If Andrew and I never talked about things that didn't relate to pity,he'd just be the guy who feels sorry for me.And that wouldn't be right.It would make me cry more than I do when I think about things he used to say that would give him more reason to feel pity.

Sorry if this turned out like one big,confusing glob of a story.I applaude you if you understand what I'm getting at here.[/SIZE]

[benakittie]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][FONT=Comic Sans MS]
Hm,...whenever I think of pity I can't help but scoff at it. I think of Kamui from the X the series too. It's not that I mean to hurt the person who is trying to help me feel better by being sympathetic, but pity makes me feel worst than how I really feel.

It makes me realize things that I try to stay positive about. Like hearing someone say, "Oh my, poor little thing." and then they embrace me it makes me crumble and cry. I hate crying because it makes me feel so helpless and weak.

...pity...I appreciate that someone sees I'm trying though, but rather have them see and acknowledge silently. I really hate it when people gush over things and make them seem more dramatic than they are.

heh, this sounds so confusing, but I felt I had to respond to this topic...[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Sara]

[font=trebuchet ms]Spare me your pity??give me compassion.[/font]

[elfpirate]

[quote name='SpiritWolf']Pity is an emotion caused by the feeling that another is helpless. You feel sorry for them. It is rather demeaning, and yet we all instinctively seek it. Just one more of the peculiarities that make psychology so darn interesting.[/quote]
[b][font=Comic Sans MS]No, SpiritWolf, you're quite wrong with that statement. There are those of us who do not seek it, and even avoid both giving it and receiving it as best we can.

Thanks, Lore, for summing it up rather nicely in seven words. [/font][/b]

[M.Ali]

[font=trebuchet ms]Pity........

In my opinion, pity is the one of the emotions that make me sick....especially [b]self-pity[/b]. I mean, it's bad enough that someone else is feeling sorry for you, why feel sorry for yourself? That really annoys the crackers out of me!

Instead of people feeling so sorry for themselves, how about doing something about it.[/font]