Gaming Guild Wars

[Brasil]

Yeah, I would never really depend on Soul Barbs all that much, either most times. Damage infliction with every Hex and Enchant cast on the target sounds pretty nice, but it'd require a cover hex or two (plus, the damage from Soul Barbs is iffy). Then again...Soul Barbs could definitely be useful, though, because I get the sense that not many players use Soul Barbs...or are even aware of it, mainly due to the same reason I disliked it initially: the damage is minimal, and 31 damage at 16 Curses just isn't worth it (though other skills at 16 Curses are unbelievably powerful)

I couldn't see a Warrior caring about it, really (good thing for those using the build). Now that I think about it, your target selection for the Degen/Hexes Illusion magic build was spot-on. (obviously, since the build ultimately worked, your target selection was correct in the first place)

When it comes to hex removal priority, it seems like Soul Barbs is/will be pretty low on the list. I could see Warrior's glancing at the stats of a 11 or 12 Curses Soul Barbs, see the 26 or 27 damage and not really care about it.

My brain is really scattered right now, and I feel totally incoherent, but I had an idea for a build similar to yours, Adam, except using Domination in place of Illusion magic:

[quote]The Edge - Guild Wars Utility
[url="http://www.sovereignlegion.com/downloads/theedge.htm"]http://www.sovereignlegion.com/downloads/theedge.htm[/url]

Class: Mesmer / Necromancer

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Fast Casting: 6+2 (21)
Domination Magic: 12+4 (97)
Curses: 11 (77)

Total attribute points used: 195/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)
1) Wastrel's Worry [Domination Magic] (5,0,1) Hex: After 3 seconds, target foe takes 68 damage. Wastrel's Worry ends prematurely if that foe uses a skill.[Quarrel Falls (Sorim); Quest: The Ascalon Settlement (North Kryta Province)]

2) Diversion [Domination Magic] (10,3,10) Hex: For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a skill, that skill takes an additional 59 seconds to recharge.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: Unnatural Creatures]

3) Price of Failure [Curses] (10,3,10) Hex: For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks and takes 23 damage whenever that foe fails to hit in combat.[Droknar's Forge (Bartoch); Quest: The Lost Princess (Fisherman's Haven)]

4) Soul Barbs [Curses] (10,2,20) Hex: For 30 seconds, target foe takes 26 damage when an enchantment or hex is cast on that target.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran);]

5) Insidious Parasite [Curses] (15,1,20) Hex: For 17 seconds, whenever target foe hits with an attack, you steal 16 health from that foe.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: The Stolen Artifact]

6) Signet of Midnight [none] (0,1,15) Signet: You and target touched foe become blinded for 15 seconds. This is an elite skill.[Boss: Facet of Chaos (Dragon's Lair), Malus Phasmatus (Perdition Rock)]

7) Ignorance [Domination Magic] (15,2,10) Hex: For 21 seconds, target foe cannot use signet rings.[Port Sledge (Thengen);]

8) Empathy [Domination Magic] (10,2,10) Hex: For 21 seconds, whenever target foe attacks, that foe takes 31 damage.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran); Quest: Mesmer Test][/quote] I haven't aligned the skills for the skillbar, obviously. I use a 4x2 bar rather than the 1x8, so I group my skills. Other than that, pretty much exactly what it seems.

[Saya]

See as far as [b]degen + soul barbs[/b] (Me/N illusion/curses) is concerned I always thought any additional damage on top of the hexes you are casting is worth it, even if it is just a little bit.

Truth be told half the time you?re casting hexes to begin with, layering them one after the other ? like you said, typically the ones you want smited off should go last (Soul Barbs cast first makes this impossible, unless the last hex you use is an irrelevant as to whether or not it stays up). But yeah, in and of itself soul barbs does little dmg.

Want to know what though? In some cases where either a monk is smiting those hexes off the opponent or where the hexes themselves [b]don?t[/b] do that much degen, Soul Barbs might be the only damage you?d be doing (so it?s far better to have it than not to have it in my opinion).

If there was a Fragility for hexes, Soul Barbs would unfortunately be it for now? unless someone can think of something better.

The thing is there are very few curses I actually like? with Mesmer?s fast casting, I find it much more preferable to play a Me primary than a N primary to boot, so chances are that means a specializing first and foremost in illusion and then second in curses or blood (most practical for illusion/degen based Mesmers so I?ve seen, likewise in pve I play a Me/N illusion degen/blood health renewal character).

That being said?
[quote=Brasil] I couldn't see a Warrior caring about it, really (good thing for those using the build). Now that I think about it, your target selection for the Degen/Hexes Illusion magic build was spot-on. (obviously, since the build ultimately worked, your target selection was correct in the first place)

When it comes to hex removal priority, it seems like Soul Barbs is/will be pretty low on the list. I could see Warrior's glancing at the stats of a 11 or 12 Curses Soul Barbs, see the 26 or 27 damage and not really care about it.[/quote]I dunno, I mean they can?t really specify what comes off? as the actual caster of the hexes you determine what to put on. That said Soul Barbs wouldn?t matter, 3 seconds later you?d have a hex up? I think the monk will notice the hex put on right after. I see what you?re saying though, in smiting it he will not realize that barbs was on in the first place? *Shrugs* again at that point it did it?s job and if it could have been taken off too, it wouldn?t even matter just stick it back on.

Soul Barbs only does dmg when a hex is cast, and by then it wouldn?t be 23 dmg? it would be 23 dmg and a degen, is what I?m trying to say. I mean this doesn?t run contrary to what you?re saying at all, simply saying Soul Barbs as far as smiting priority means very little (as you said), but not for the same reasons.

With fast casting a hex typically would be put on half a second after barbs? I?d figure the monk?s player?s eye couldn?t even catch the soul barbs to notice. So pretty need to have as a bonus.

So in the end this is actually agreeing with you and providing a reason for it as well, just incase anyone thought of mixing Soul Barbs with other hexes in pvp combat where degens can be smote. :) I realize my thoughts are scrambled a lot here too, but hopefully there is someone out there that is following this.

As for the build, it looks GREAT as far as domination goes? I might try it out later, I?m going to mess with illusion for a bit though and then switch perhaps ? we?ll see. Meantime for illusion I?ll pick up some of those cool curses like Price of Failure and see how it factors in.

In the end if I don?t see myself doing as much damage (which I do a good amount against Warriors as it is), I?ll go for dom :) very cool build though!!! A must try for Mesmer fanatics out there like me!

(And if you were too busy reading this to see Brasil's build, scroll the heck up, it's worth it.)

[Brasil]

I just had an interesting experience in the Comp Arenas (9 or 10 consecutive wins before we lost). I entered and got teamed with two Wammos, and another N/Me. One Wammo was using Mending on himself. Both were using Healing Breeze (and another Healing Breeze-ish Elite enchant) from time to time. The N/Me was doing a Virulence Death Magic build.

Jade's build was almost a random variation of the build I posted previously. When in-game, I just mix and matched skills, and came up with the following:

[quote]The Edge - Guild Wars Utility
[url="http://www.sovereignlegion.com/downloads/theedge.htm"]http://www.sovereignlegion.com/downloads/theedge.htm[/url]

Class: Necromancer / Mesmer

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Soul Reaping: 3 (6)
Curses: 12+4 (97)
Domination Magic: 12 (97)

Total attribute points used: 200/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)
1) Wastrel's Worry [Domination Magic] (5,0,1) Hex: After 3 seconds, target foe takes 53 damage. Wastrel's Worry ends prematurely if that foe uses a skill.[Quarrel Falls (Sorim); Quest: The Ascalon Settlement (North Kryta Province)]

2) Parasitic Bond [Curses] (5,1,2) Hex: For 20 seconds, target foe suffers health degeneration of 1. The caster is healed for 126 health when Parasitic Bond ends.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: Oberan's Rage]

3) Soul Barbs [Curses] (10,2,20) Hex: For 30 seconds, target foe takes 31 damage when an enchantment or hex is cast on that target.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran);]

4) Spiteful Spirit [Curses] (15,2,10) Hex: For 21 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, Spiteful Spirit deals 37 shadow damage to that foe and all adjacent foes. This is an elite skill[Boss: Night Spinechill (Talus Chute), Ceru Gloomrunner (Iron Mines of Moladune), Shadowlord Vogris (Fissure of Woe)]

5) Shadow of Fear [Curses] (10,2,10) Hex: Target foe and all adjacent foes attack 50% slower for the next 45 seconds.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: Caravan In Trouble (Eastern Frontier)]

6) Enfeebling Blood [Curses] (10,2,10) Spell: Sacrifice 17% max health. Target foe and all adjacent foes suffer from weakness for 21 seconds.[Grendich Courthouse (Taltosh);]

7) Price of Failure [Curses] (10,3,10) Hex: For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks and takes 31 damage whenever that foe fails to hit in combat.[Droknar's Forge (Bartoch); Quest: The Lost Princess (Fisherman's Haven)]

8) Backfire [Domination Magic] (15,3,20) Hex: For 10 seconds, whenever target foe casts a spell, that foe takes 119 damage.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran);][/quote] For the most part, I think this build has its roots in the previous one, with some key differences. Most notably, you don't see Diversion, Insidious Parasite, Signet of Midnight, Ignorance, and Empathy. That's...five skills? But oddly enough, while normally that would constitute an entirely new build...the philosophy behind both of these builds remains the same: utilizing quick hexes to overload Soul Barbs, while simultaneously forcing casters to make a tough decision: to cast and take 119 damage or not cast and take 53 damage.

Like Adam, I was leery of how effective Soul Barbs would be at first, but I was pleasantly surprised. Granted, there's a lack of both Hex/Cond removal in CA, not to mention lack of Enchant removal (Mending stayed on the entire time lol), but even in light of that, the build is pretty darn potent.

(Note my original build was a Mes/Nec. The new version is designed for Nec/Mes, and I feel it's even more effective)

While Empathy seemed like a solid choice for a build of this nature, I began to realize a few things:

1) Spiteful Spirit. Souped-up version of Empathy. Its duration is identical at my attribute levels (Curses 16, Dom 12, rest into Soul Reaping). Its damage trumps Empathy by 6. The recharge and cast times are identical. S.S. costs 5 more, but it's pretty worth it. Plus, it's AoE.

Advantage: Spiteful Spirit

2) Price of Failure. At 16 Domination, Empathy was 21/31 (duration/damage). At 16 Curses, Price of Failure is 30/31, in addition to a 25% chance to miss. Identical cost and recharge, while PoF has a 3-second cast time. Empathy's cast time is 2 seconds.

Advantage here: Price of Failure. (In a bit, I'll explain why the cast time isn't/wasn't an issue)

It started to become obvious that having Empathy in that skill bar was a complete waste of a slot. I could do more damage (and AoE no less!) with S.S. I could have a longer duration with PoF (with a 25% miss rate).

Plus, Signet of Midnight, while sounding nice, was really wasting my Elite slot. With Shadow of Fear (SoF being another Hex for the Soul Barbs combo) and Enfeebling Blood, not to mention PoF and Spiteful Spirit, needing to blind anybody was the least of my concerns. I had anti-War and/or Ranger already.

So Empathy and Sig of Midnight went bye-bye.

Next up was Diversion. I started wondering about it, and as much as I would have loved to shutdown a skill for close to a minute (yes, an entire minute O_O), I wondered what other skills I could use. Granted, Diversion is an amazing Hex, and with a 6 second duration, 10 energy cost, 3 cast time, and 10 second recharge, it would fit very nicely with the Soul Barbs quick Hexes idea.

But I looked at the build and wasn't feeling Insidious Parasite, especially given that I had enough anti-physical combat Hexes going on. Plus, at 21/21, it wasn't all that much of a health return. I needed something to keep my health up, and something that I could spam.

Diversion made way for Parasitic Bond. Good choice, definitely. Every 20 seconds, I could have around 120 health coming back. Not too shabby.

I decided that Ignorance was pretty useless, given how strong Shadow of Fear and Enfeebling Blood were together, so Ignorance got replaced.

Since I moved some skills around in there, I'm having trouble remembering what replaced what, heh.

I believe Backfire was added for Caster-Hate. I don't see it in the original build. In CA, my order went like this:

(vs Casters) Soul Barbs, Backfire, Spiteful Spirit, Parasitic Bond, then Wastrel's Worry.

With Soul Barbs doing 30 damage with each hex cast, within a span of a few seconds, I could already do something around 90 or 120 damage. P.Bond sets up a life degen, and Wastrel's Worry forces their decision.

They can either cast and get hit with Backfire (119 damage) and Spiteful Spirit (37 damage) for a total of 156 damage, which surpasses a Primary Mes at 16 Dom, I think, or at least comes close to matching it. But 156 damage. For casting one spell.

If they don't cast anything, Wastrel's Worry gets them for 53 damage.

Either way, they get hurt. Obviously, I'd much more enjoy them suffering from Backfire+S.S. But even then, Wastrel's doesn't only do 53 damage, because as I cast Wastrel's, I damaged them for 31 from Soul Barbs. So it really breaks down like this:

Working under the Soul Barbs combo, the damage is either:

Backfire+S.S. for a total of 156, then added is 31 from the Soul Barbs (Wastrel's), for a total of 187. I could even get that up to over 200 if I were so inclined, using P.Bond as well. Total damage: 218

OR,

The 31+31 for 62 damage from Soul Barbs (P.Bond and Wastrel's), then a health degen from P.Bond, and they don't cast, which does 53 damage. Total damage: approximately 115

It's pretty effective. I can drop most targets really quickly.

And let's not forget that S.S. triggers on anything. Even the caster wanding someone will incur damage.

Now next,

(vs physical)

Soul Barbs, P.Bond, Wastrel's Worry (P.Bond and WW for as they're running in), then Shadow of Fear, Price of Failure, Spiteful Spirit, Enfeebling Blood.

It doesn't quite have the punch that the Caster-Hate portion does, but it's very easy to make Warriors and Rangers think twice about getting in my face.

The other night, I held off a Warrior for a few minutes using more or less the same combination. -40s popping up became -7s. Nice to see. Shadow of Fear guaranteed close to no Adre gain, as well. And since the Adre skills weren't being used as much, W.W. had some fun. That was stacking up for around 80 damage per use (WW and the Soul Barbs trigger).

Finally, the cast times. 3 seconds seems like an awfully long time with no Fast Casting, but my weaponry for Jade more than made up for it.

I was using Villnar's Claw and a collector's idol. The mods were 20% Chance to improve Casting Speed using Curses skills on Villnar's Claw, and a 20/20 for the focus item.

I've had so many instant-casts it's not even funny. 3 second cast times don't even matter anymore. There are times when I get the full 3 second cast times, but more often than not, I'm seeing 1.5-2.0 seconds on all the skills except Backfire.

~~~

That's about all I have to say right now, I think. I laid out a few of my own observations and assessments of the build, and it's been tested, too, so I know it works.

~~~

Finally, obviously, going up against a team of Hex/Cond removal and this build will lose its luster. I suppose it's best for CA, where most players don't think to bring Shatter Hex, Convert, etc. But perhaps in a good GvG team, this build can find some use, possibly targeting unexpected and unsuspecting fools.

[haru sakurai]

hello, i'm haru, a new member of the guild-- my character is Anna Crucis. i got an account here as it's been suggested. so um, hi! >>

[Saya]

Alex,

The build is working great. The problem seems to be speed - I have the right weapons to enhance speed but it does little... in the end, 2 monk teams that are remotely coordinated are tough fighting against (4v4 almost impossible), random is up in the wind. Build does well if you have a monk, 2 monks all the better (but 2 monks means there will be NO damage output in 4v4 against teams with either monks or Mesmers, as both really screw up this SS build).

All and all tough to play. In random it does seem to work with the right team. Packs quite a punch when monks DO NOT heal their party members; when they do it is almost impossible to degen or SS against healing. Attacking monks head on with this build is useless, as monks notice backfire immediately.

Winning is possible in such difficult situations. Requires distracting the monk by hurting those on their party, while having this build chip away at the monk (or having a char with this build chip away at warriors on the team, while someone else like a w/mo goes for the monk).

Under the right circumstances this build packs a punch. I like it more than the degen Mesmer idea (and yet it is MUCH different, in that degen Mesmer is faster but doesn?t pack the same punch, more of a support role), combines all that is great about the degen Mesmer build and adds some hard hitting action. Problem again is time... this build is slow, but under the right conditions it works well.

That's what I've found so far, if it helps. So yup, I enjoy using it and I'll continue to.

[quote name='haru sakurai']hello, i'm haru, a new member of the guild-- my character is Anna Crucis. i got an account here as it's been suggested. so um, hi! >>[/quote]Hey Haru, where is Shattered? Anyhow, welcome to the OB - I really do hope you enjoy your stay. Please feel free to browse through the various forums and take part in any discussions you may want to (from real movies, to art, from art to anime the OB has it all).

Good to see you here. :) Hope to play with you in QKT.

[Brasil]

I was musing over this build a bit more last night. Even though I can cause nice damage with it with the right combinations and exploitation of opponent's weaknesses (Chess and that pin move, for example), I think some changes could be made if someone is so inclined.

For example, if you wanted some more direct damage rather than conditional, you could run some of the following skills in place of Price of Failure and Spiteful Spirit: Desecrate Enchantments, Feast of Corruption, Suffering, Energy Burn/Surge, or Shatter Delusions.

At 16 Curses/12 Dom, the stats break down like this:

[quote]Desecrate Enchantments [Curses] (10,2,15) Spell: Target foe and all nearby foes take 63 shadow damage and 21 shadow damage for each enchantment on them.[Marhan's Grotto (Harnil);]

Feast of Corruption [Curses] (10,2,20) Spell: Target foe and all adjacent foes are struck for 84 shadow damage. You steal 43 health from each foe struck who is suffering from a hex. This is an elite skill.[Boss: Maw the Mountain Heart (Dreadnaught's Drift)]

Suffering [Curses] (15,2,20) Hex: For 31 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer health degeneration of 2.[Lion's Arch (Firstwatch Sergio); Quest: Helping the Dwarves (Yak's Bend)]

Energy Surge [Domination Magic] (10,2,20) Spell: Target foe loses 9 energy. For each point of energy lost, that foe and all foes in the area take 8 damage. This is an elite skill.[Boss: Melek The Virtuous (Ring of Fire), Balasi the Arcane (Iron Mines of Moladune), Mercia the Sing (Abaddon's Mouth)]

Energy Burn [Domination Magic] (10,2,20) Spell: Target foe loses 9 energy and takes 8 damage for each point of energy lost.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: A Cure for Relena]

Shatter Delusions [Domination Magic] (5,0,10) Spell: Remove one Mesmer hex from target foe. If a hex was removed, that foe takes 63 damage.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran);][/quote]
Most of these spells are AoE, but at the same time, very effective at max Curses. I'm partial to Feast of Corruption there, for a few reasons.

1) The build throws around Hexes, and P.Bond's spammable nature really enables the Necro to Hex foes on a wider scale, which means FoC can do some damage, both to the target and those around them.

2) The damage for FoC is 127 right off the bat. The extra health steal is almost guaranteed with this build. You can always have some sort of Hex on your target, provided it isn't Smited off, Convered, removed, etc. What's interesting about FoC in this combination is that with Backfire, you can inflict some 246 damage if you time it correctly.

3) We've all seen what the Necros Suck FoC spike can do.

4) And I've used FoC a lot, as well, so I know how to set it up.

A good complementary skill to FoC is Suffering. AoE degen Hex. By itself, not so great. It's like -2 degen for 30 seconds. But used in conjunction with FoC, you're looking at some potent skill synergy. Provided you either target the Soul Barb-ed foe, or make sure they're included in the Suffering effect when you cast it, Suffering is another spell in the line-up that can trigger the 31 damage.

Follow that up with a Wastrel's Worry, then start casting FoC, and you should be able to catch them in...

They cast: 31 (Suffering/Soul Barbs) + 31 (WW/Soul Barbs) + 31 (Backfire/Soul Barbs) + 127 (FoC) + 119 (Backfire). Total damage: 339

They don't cast: 31 (Suffering/Soul Barbs) + 31 (WW/Soul Barbs) + 31 (Backfire/Soul Barbs) + 127 (FoC) + 53 (WW). Total damage: 273

Pretty respectable, I suppose, although for damage-dealing, I wouldn't use Suffering, because if need be, Shadow of Fear could be used for the AoE Hex complement to FoC. So that may free up the other slot. Desecrate Enchantments may prove useful.

They cast: 31 (Backfire/Soul Barbs) + 31 (WW/Soul Barbs) + 31 (P.Bond/Soul Barbs) + 127 (FoC) + 119 (Backfire) + 84 (Desecrate Enchants). Total damage: 423

They don't cast: 31 (Backfire/Soul Barbs) + 31 (WW/Soul Barbs) + 31 (P.Bond/Soul Barbs) + 127 (FoC) + 84 (Desecrate Enchants) + 53 (WW). Total damage: 357

Now that's what I like. It should be noted that the Desecrate Enchant damage only factors in one enchantment cast on the target. At 21 damage per enchantment, if the target has even two or three, the damage in this combo increases to...a smidge under 470 if the target casts, and a little over 400 if they don't cast. And taking 400 damage for not casting is not too shabby.

Also noteworthy there is that if the target dies from the spike, the P.Bond ends, so you get that health back, in addition to stealing 43 health (Feast of Corruption) from each foe suffering from a Hex. At the very least, that's 165 health coming back. More if you caught a few in an AoE FoC.

I haven't talked much about the Domination skills there, and I suppose there's a reason for that: this is a Curse-heavy build, and at 16 Curses, we can be doing much more damage with the above-mentioned Curses skills rather than something like the single-target Energy Burn, unspectacular Energy Surge (Elite skill, as well, which means no FoC), and we don't want to be removing Hexes from our opponent, even if we can cause a respectable amount of damage in doing so.

I could see Shatter Delusions working if it either affected Necro hexes as well (P.Bond would be interesting there), or...if we were using something like Phantom Pain (Shatter it, Deep Wound occurs).

So, all in all, I could see replacing Spiteful Spirit with Feast of Corruption and Price of Failure with Desecrate Enchantments if you wanted to increase the damage output, even though I personally haven't had any trouble dealing damage.

[Saya]

I'll give it a try... you brought up a very good point. Mass disease, so to speak. We've been experimenting with F. Dreams as being a key to mass degen, using FoC would be more appropriate it seems.

This build seems very effective - I'll post more later when I try it out. But spamming P. Bond is a big plus considering the casting time is so damn small... I'm a little upset at the moment, as I'm juggling between FoC and Spiteful Spirit. SS of course = dmg for nearly anything, and FoC = more damage, wider range, but ALL in range must have hexes on them. It CAN be done, but in my opinion it is best suited for a team (party) whose build is based around laying degens (tombs/gvg specific build). I could be wrong on that though... :)

Strategy is slightly different in the two builds, it'll be a tough decision as to which way to go. On a positive note though, I should say that FoC scores highly in my book: last night a team was running up to my team in random, one necro cast FoC after we both laid some hexes... within two seconds, literally, after a flood of yellow damage marks, the entire team was destroyed.

For PVP builds on a large scale I'm really liking Feast in combo with Suffering (you're right, Suffering alone is not all too wonderful, but with FoC maybe)... like, a whole lot - have a few necros on the team, and it'll do some nice damage. Like you, I'm a BIG fan of Feast of Corruption (though I figured we both would be since we liked the idea of Fevered Dreams).

My only problem is again 1) it relies to heavily on the fact that enmies are close in range to eachother and 2) it relies on enemies being hexed. But eh, AoE + more damage, or the other build, more centralized attacks but less overall damage? Brasil you make life too complicated my friend.

Again though, I find it strange you don't think that the SS build before this is neither slow nor ineffective with monks on the opposing team. Looks like we need to go into PVP so I can show you :) I swear, it's the strangest thing.

Anyhow, more later when I use this new FoC build... first I need to go get FoC. ;)

[b]After Using It:[/b] GREAT Necro spiker build with AoE capabilities. [strike]If you don't want to use Desecrate Enchants and keep your Shadow of Fears (if you were like me, running it without Price of Failure in case you brought a res signet), then Descrate Enchants is not [b]needed[/b],[/strike] it is INSANELY useful against monks and mesmers though but it depends how you like to play. I love this build! :)

Nevermind, use Desecrate... sub it for Enfeebled Blood if you have to, it's well worth it even if target foe doesn't have enchantments (dmg wise and since it doesn't take long)!

[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]

[Citrus]

[SIZE=1]Attention one and all!


Do you think your hero/heroine is the best looking in the whole guild? Do you think that you have the best undergarments in the whole guild? Well it's time to find out the truth:


[B]THE QUANTUM KABUKI TROUPE BEAUTY PAGEANT '06!!![/B]

After a long night of talking about banana's, lollipos, candy shopes, cherries, and eggplants the group kind of mellowed down for a second. After Adam(persecomblues) stopped rambling on how the Korean's get different staff messages than the Americans do, I came up with a brilliant idea.

How about a beauty pageant? Sorry if I'm spelling it wrong. Heh.

Anyways we decided that would be a fun cool event on Guild Wars for the guild. So let's get to the point and post the rules!

[B]1[/B]. You must be punctual! As this is going to be a two day event we want everyone to be able to get everything done as planned. That way we can all have fun.

[B]2[/B]. If you choose to participate in this event please send me a PM or post that you will be joining in this thread. We need everyone's answer by Friday, January 6th Midnight. We know it's quite soon to get all the applications in, but we want everything to be choreographed like entrances, dances, ecetera.

[B]3[/B]. There will not be any specific clothing, but we ask that you have more than one set of clothing.

[B]4[/B]. Both males and female's are accepted. So don't feel restricted, go ahead and join in on the fun!

[B]5[/B]. Please be polite, that's all we ask.


And there you go! Please take note that the pageant will start on Saturday, January 7th. So hurry up and alert me that you will like to strut your virtual stuff![/SIZE]

[haru sakurai]

[QUOTE=persocomblues]Hey Haru, where is Shattered? Anyhow, welcome to the OB - I really do hope you enjoy your stay. Please feel free to browse through the various forums and take part in any discussions you may want to (from real movies, to art, from art to anime the OB has it all).

Good to see you here. :) Hope to play with you in QKT.[/QUOTE]

oh, she's around. in fact, i'm pretty sure she's been taking part in discussions (she joined after i linked her to a thread in the lounge i was posting on). anyway, thanks for the warm welcome. :D

[Saya]

Hey,

Some people wonder what Persocomblues does when he's bored... well I don't knit!

So you're chilling in the dead of winter with your Ministry Ibiza Summer Jams CD and you're thinking to yourself, "Self, how the hell am I going to warm up this winter?" The answer should be clear! With a QKT Summer Jams @ The Beach background!

All right, well they aren't the best quality in the world (I didn't use my PC with the nice graphics card to get them), but they're kind of cute!

Fits toys, boys, and girls of all ages. Show your guild spirit by putting one of these on your wallpaper... or not, see if I care... but you know what? You'll be sorry you didn't when you suddenly get a streak of bad luck in pvp.

That's right folks, not only are these k-cool wallpapers but they also give +10 moral boosts PLUS Dwayna/Grenth Blessings! So get them while they're hot.

[URL=http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=atthebeachwtheqktlglo3qj.jpg][IMG]http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5840/atthebeachwtheqktlglo3qj.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=atthebeachwtheqkt0ej.jpg][IMG]http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/455/atthebeachwtheqkt0ej.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Picture features Bittersweet Lullaby (played by myself), and Rose Dove (played by Tigris).
[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]

[Ben Holiday]

Guild Wars: Factions :animenose aka chapter 2 is now confirmed on the site the speculation so far is an early March release date we can always hope I guess. From the way it is being described it sounds quite interesting an asian themed area of the world with plenty of new goodies for all confirmed so far bigger storage vaults, a few new armors for each class (though I have hard some look like retextures of existing :animesigh ), new spells, new pets and at least one more additional character slot though I'm hoping for another 4 slots to be honest I hate having to delete my toons to make a fresh one.

[Brasil]

Because I enjoy mind games:

[quote]The Edge - Guild Wars Utility
[url]http://www.sovereignlegion.com/downloads/theedge.htm[/url]

Class: Mesmer / Warrior

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Fast Casting: 3+1 (6)
Illusion Magic: 12+4 (97)
Axe Mastery: 12 (97)

Total attribute points used: 200/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)
1) Clumsiness [Illusion Magic] (10,1,10) Hex: For 8 seconds, if target foe attempts to attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 98 damage.[Copperhammer Mines (Gammel);]

2) Disrupting Chop [Axe Mastery] (0,0,6) Axe Attack: If it hits, this attack interrupts the target's current action. If that action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.[Grendich Courthouse (Taltosh);]

3) Executioner's Strike [Axe Mastery] (0,0,8) Axe Attack: If this attack hits, you strike for +34 damage.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran);]

4) Eviscerate [Axe Mastery] (0,0,7) Axe Attack: If Eviscerate hits, you strike for +34 damage and inflict a deep wound, lowering your target's maximum health by 20% for 17 seconds. This is an elite skill.[Boss: Tortitudo Probo (Hell's Precipice)]

5) Distortion [Illusion Magic] (5,0,5) Stance: For 5 seconds, you have a 75% chance to evade attacks. Whenever you evade an attack this way, you lose 0 energy or Distortion ends.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: Supplies for the Duke (Old Ascalon)]

6) For Great Justice!' [none] (10,0,45) Shout: For 15 seconds, your adrenal skills charge twice as fast.[Yak's Bend (Captain Osric); Quest: Helping the People of Ascalon (Old Ascalon)]

7) Sympathetic Visage [Illusion Magic] (10,1,30) Enchantment: For 21 seconds, whenever target ally is hit by a melee attack, all nearby enemies lose all adrenaline and 3 energy.[Fisherman's Haven (Mazzim);]

8) Illusion of Weakness [Illusion Magic] (10,2,30) Enchantment: You lose 253 health. Illusion of Weakness ends if damage drops your health below 25% of your maximum. When Illusion of Weakness ends, you gain 253 health.[Quarrel Falls (Sorim), Henge of Denravi (Master Scout Kiera); Quest: The Hot Springs Murders (Nebo Terrace)][/quote]

[Saya]

[quote name='Brasil']Because I enjoy mind games:[/quote]Well we spoke about it briefly off the forums but I think this build is perhaps one of the most unconventional builds I've ever seen. The intention is of course clear, make the enemy think you're IW (Illusionary Weapon Mesmer) or something of the sort when you're not. A great strategy in the quick world of Tombs and GvG but ultimately has some failings, the same failings of IW.

The fast casting in this build ultimately implies that you are taking this from a Me/W perspective in which can the character can be confused for an IW from those that know what IW is (IW is horrible at W/Me and experienced players know that - reiterating this for people that have any interest in playing IW in the future). And while I [b]love[/b] the idea of mind screwing them, the build only goes so far because you will essentially be "re-targeted" for what you really are.

The result would be the same as running IW.

IW is very much like this build. In both cases you're a Mesmer relying on fighting skills. IW requires a sword... in this build, what, you're going to switch to a axe real fast? SV, and Illusion of W. is going to recharge slower and yet I don't think you mind. The problem instead is that [i]once[/i] you pull your axe you'll be taken down like a Mesmer trying to play warrior (fast... sure it'll screw them up, Mesmer who suddenly wields an axe, Me/W that's not using IW, Me/W that's tanking... but the result is the same).

I don't think it'll confuse the enemy all that much... beside, you're still a Mesmer primary. Everyone is going to assume either your "armor is weaker" or you're up to no good; you'll be the first thing targeted as it stands - at least do what Mesmers are good at instead of wasting it on powerful axe attacks.

See but that's just my point of view. IWs are typically targeted extremely fast as it stands because they're extremely dangerous... this build will undeniably draw the same sort of doubt. But is it all doom and gloom?

Hardly.

IW has a lot of success in pvp mainly because people don't expect that type of damage and the amount of damage output from a Mesmer in the first place. Teams that don't know what to look for will be confused, likewise teams with little experience in pvp might even up and die to one Mesmer. This build seems even MORE confusing in [b]those[/b] circumstances, and even more powerful.

And yet again I can't help but think IW has had its day in the sun. This build seems as though it will be treated in a similar fashion by experienced players seeing the Me/W running this in combat.

Some IW builds which combine other Mesmer skills along with powerful sword attacks are quite nifty too but that's beyond the scope of this reply, as most IW do not carry anything other than IW and sword attacks (reminder IW dmg ignores armor, although there is a lot of damage in this build, armor still reduces damage taken).

Just some reflections. Maybe I'm looking too much into this, maybe this build would be just as successful as IW... I can surely see the massive damage output, very nifty and I surely like the axe skills you selected.

[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Just a note to people who didn't get in on the Wintersday stuff: I have a bunch of Gingerbread Focuses, Gingerbread Shields, and Peppermint Shields sitting around, from doing the quests on all four of my characters. So if anyone wants any of them, they're free to take.[/color]

[Saya]

[b]Desi:[/b] Oh I'll take some Candy Canes from you if you don't mind *smirks* but something tells me that isn't quite what you had in mind. But should you want to give them away... I'll have them... all, please. :)

I know this further clutters an already cluttered thread but I did suggest splitting it a long time ago (which if asked I can always do out of love of the OB), just stating that as my defense (all right, I suppose I don't really need a defense since there are about 5 pages of builds on the thread, but hey I?m covering my bases).

Alex, for convenience sake I've posted the build we?ve been discussing and possible skill choices ? continue to give your input please either here or off the forums, but feel free to use this as a framework. Again this build implies the use of a 20% enchantment mod for a staff. I think the energy clothes for the monk are best as well.

Let me know what you think. I know Chris (from the guild) plays a Prot monk but I?m not sure whether he?s signed up for the OB or not. Anyone wishing to give tips or comments in regards to the build please feel free to do so.

So here goes nothing?
[quote=Prot Build/my test project w/ Brasil]NOTE: 7 slots filled, 1 empty - can drop Heal Party for Aura and Spirit... otherwise we're left with a few essentials as seen in the "[a]lternative configuation" section. So this means we have a lot of work on our hands to make this flawless... again depends on the intention, 8v8 we have the luxury of heal and prots or just prots, while PUG Tombs might require something a bit more stand alone as far as heal/prot usage is concerned on the part of the prot monk.

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 13 (12+1)
Protection Prayers: 14 (10+4)
Inspiration: 4

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of health instead, maximum 76.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:2

- Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
Remove one "Condition" (poison, disease, blindness, dazed, bleed, crippled, or deep wound) from target ally. That ally is healed 66 for each remaining Condition.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:2

- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
All negative Conditions are transfered from target other ally to yourself. For each Condition acquired, you are healed for 25 health.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
While you maintain this Enchantment, whenever you cast a monk spell on an ally, that ally is healed for 64 health and you lose 2 energy.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Heal entire party for 20 health.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:0

- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration)
For 20 seconds, you gain no benefits from it. You gain 23 energy when Mantra of Recall ends.
Energy:15 Cast Time:1 Recharge:20

- Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. You can only use this skill ring once per mission.
Energy:0 Cast Time:3 Recharge:0

Alternative configuration

- Blessed Aura (Divine Favor)
While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 32% longer than normal.
Energy:10 Cast Time:2 Recharge:2

- Divine Spirit (Divine Favor)
For the next 10 seconds, monk spells cost you 5 less energy to cast. (Minimum cost: 1 energy).
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:60

- Aegis (Protection Prayers)
Your entire team is enchanted with Aegis. For 11 seconds, your allies have a 50% chance to block attacks.
Energy:15 Cast Time:1 Recharge:30

- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
For 5 seconds, target ally has a 48% chance to block attacks.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:2[/quote]The more I look at this the more I want to remove Heal Party... and yet still, I can't find the heart to do it mainly because it still leaves matters of Aegis and Guardian out (two things which benefit from including Spirit and Aura). Grah, so looks like it needs revamping!

[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]

[Brasil]

Incidentally, one thing I noticed about iQ's build in the match we watched last night was that I didn't see much Hex Removal. I was watching the Monks closely the entire time, and I never saw any Remove Hex, Convert, etc happening. I checked their Me/E from time to time, same thing.

I wonder if they had [i]any[/i] Hex removal?

They could handle conditions really well through the Mend Ailment/Draw Cond/Martyr, etc...but I can't recall one time where I saw Hexes being removed through whatever means possible. And with Monks and Mesmers...there are a lot of ways to remove Hexes. It just seems really odd to have three Monks and a Dom-based Mesmer (slightly Dom-based) with very little (if any) Hex removal.

So I'm starting to think about how their build is set-up, and the more I think about it, the more it seems straightforward to the point of falling into the FotM category. It relies on one or two (maybe three...) premises and that's it:

1) The Wars get in there to Adre spike, with damage output augmented from a Mo/N using Order of Pain.

2) The opposing team focuses on spreading conditions.

I find premise #2 to be the most intriguing. Let's be realistic here: the build we saw isn't all that powerful, or well-developed, I think. Sure, it's complex in that it requires a good team to work correctly, but when you get down to the nitty-gritty of it...the team's heals rely on their foes inflicting conditions.

Mend Ailment, for example, is very effective when the target ally is burdened with Crippled, Blind, Bleed, Poison, etc. The heal multiplier of Mend Ailment increases dramatically with multiple conditions.

You take out widespread condition infliction, you reduce the healing effectiveness dramatically. As strong as a tactic it is (using the enemy's weapons against them, essentially), it's a double-edged sword. Once the enemy picks up on it, your (highly conditional) healing is lost, or at least reduced.

Premise three is something like...

3) The opposing team does not use hexes (non-degen).

Since that build relies on a lot of quick casts of 5 energy Prot spells, things like Backfire would punch a major, major hole in it, I think. With no Hex removal...it's either cast and keep the team healthy and die, or no casting and the team suffers.

At max Dom Backfire...that's something like 149 damage per cast.

With no Hex removal, Soul Barbs would probably get a nice performance, because with each Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, etc., cast, Soul Barbs will be inflicting 20-something damage. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it can add up.

Also, I suppose there's one last premise here:

4) The opposing team does not bring Enchant removal.

A well-placed Well of the Profane and the build dies most heinously. Or Desecrate Enchat spikes, or Shatter Enchant, or Rend, etc.

Adam figures iQ (the guild we watched) knew what type of team build they were going up against and prepared accordingly, which would explain why iQ's build is highly situational. The other team's build didn't use things like Backfire or Soul Barbs, or Enchant removal. They were a mass degen build primarily using poisons.

So that explains the choice of iQ's build.

Pretty interesting. Even in light of the situational effectiveness, I think there are some invaluable techniques that can be gleaned from iQ's build, what to use, what not to use, find weaknesses, strengths, etc.

[Guest aceofspades]

The build I use for my protection monk is a more or less standard boon prot build. Here it is:

Mo/N

Attributes:
11+1+3 Divine Favor
10+1 Protection Prayers
10 Blood Magic

Skills:
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Mend Ailment
Holy Veil
Aegis
Divine Boon
Offering of Blood [Elite]
Signet of Devotion

I prefer armors with additional protection, so I take bits of the wanderer's and judge's sets. Extra energy capacity has very little value, as it is for the most part a one-time bonus. Add on a blood staff (you gain more benefit from the chance of a fast recharge on OoB than you will from fast casts or recharges for the monk skills) with a defense head and enchantment wrapping, and you're good to go.

Boon monks are energy-intensive, and OoB provides reliable energy right when you need it. You don't need to worry about the conditional benefits of Channeling or the waiting game of Mantra of Recall.

Signet of Devotion gives you something to do all the time and saves precious energy. If you can't find anyone in need of one of your special abilities or a big boon heal, just fire the signet at a party member in need. Infrequent casting is critical to long-term boon usage, and this signet keeps you useful.

This build comes from the "monks shouldn't carry res" school of thought, which I have always found to be true. For every person who's dead, there are usually two more at the brink of death. Taking several seconds to resurrect instead of healing/protecting at such times tends to result in more dead party members. Besides which, monks are frequently the first to die anyway.

[Saya]

Interesting, I'll try to the build out later - you combined all the things I liked, I hope it works out. I must admit to you though that I hate OoB and putting on and taking off Holy Veil... I know, common for heal monks too and very effective but I normally don't like it all too much.

I'll give it a try though.

I don't care how long it takes to cast, I'm in love with energy tap... plus I do find the health reduction to be a downside (for offering). But Mantra of Recall is something I'm also fond of, I might end up replacing it (offering) with Recall or Energy Tap and giving it a run to try it out (chew me out all you want for it, but if you're who I think you are - Chris - we'll have plenty to say about it in Guild chat). However in more quick forms of pvp I would say offering stands a better chance.

You're not the first person I met in the last 2 days that suggested no res for monks. I like the idea WITH a good team. With a bad team the monks probably will be the only ones left alive (been there done that). I carry a res with a standard word/infuse heal build I use (I only have inspired hex with it), but I'll consider taking mend ailment there instead of a res signet. As far as this build is concerned I'll give it a go without res signet as I see the need for a prot monk to make use of all of the skill slots.

Now tell me, you really like Divine Boon? I mean I'll try it but I never thought the heal factor was that important on the prot end... what I wanted to see was enchantments longer skill/spell (Aegis is, after all, very short as is Guardian - almost useless without Blessed Aura which in my opinion needs Divine Spirit). I mean come on, 10 seconds or so... lol, I mean sure better than Distortion for instance buuuuuut....

See that's what I'm having a problem with.

I need the duration to last longer... and truth be told, 1 energy cost on all my spells wouldn't be too bad either. Meh, I'll think it over, try running the build - see if I can add anything and get back to you.

[b]NOTE:[/b] LOL, I just checked - someone from GSS uses the exact same build but replaces Signet of Devotion for Prot Spirit... geez, you guys think a like! :) Guess it is common to use offering... I still don't love it :/

Question: Is draw conditions [b]only[/b] really good when you have two monks - one to take all the conditions, the other to take off all those conditions in bulk? Guess so but I want your opinion.

[quote=Ideas so far, so plz comment]So the way I see it looks like this for Mo/N, the ()'s are for Mo/Me which I prefer.

Rof, guardian, mend ailment, holy veil (or insp hex), Blessed Aura, Divine Spirit, Offering (Mantra of Recall, or energy tap).

[b]Depends on type of team you're working with...[/b]

Heal Party and Draw Conditions[/quote]

[Guest aceofspades]

OoB and mesmer tricks are both very valid methods of regaining energy. OoB has the advantages of a nice return (11 net gain with 10 blood), a quick cast, and a low recycle time. Energy tap has a nice return as well, but a poor recharge time and a long cast that makes interruption easy. Over time, OoB will give a much more energy than tap, if you can handle the health sacrifice. 10% health really isn't much; for my characters that's usually 50 damage or less, easily healed the next time you cast a spell on yourself or use sig of devotion.

Mantra of recall is another option. The energy return is good (it can be better than OoB over time), but the timing isn't. OoB is energy on demand, mantra gives energy over time. The cost is also an issue. OoB is not hard to use when you are the target of energy denial, giving you a quick reserve to cast a spell or two. Mantra, on the other hand, is pretty much impossible to cast with someone constantly draining you.

As far as boon goes, my fondness for it stems from the fact that protection spells in and of themselves really don't seem to do much. They are intended to be a proactive defense, but the game mechanics really don't allow them to be used that way, at least in PVP. RoF for example is great when it blocks a fireball, but rarely do you have the warning required to use it on exactly the right person at exactly the right time - more frequently you simply block a wand hit and the spell has less net effect than an Orison. Guardian is a nice defensive spell, but you really can't know who to cast it on until the blows are already landing - and there's a chance that it will have no effect at all. Condition removers are nice, but each is geared toward specific circumstances and you really can't afford to bring more than one, so usually you won't be using exactly the ideal skill for the job. The result of all this is that protection skills will only be maybe half as effective as they could be in an ideal world, regardless of how good a player you are. When I see the enemy rangers all draw their bows at once, I have no way of knowing who to use my skills on until the arrows hit. Ditto for that nasty elementalist nuke I'd love to RoF. From a practical standpoint, prot spells would be nice, but another healer would be more useful given these limitations.

Boon provides a solution to this dilemma by providing what is essentially a low-cost Orison with every prot spell. The prot enchantment you cast will provide benefits for the part of a threat yet to come, and the boon heal will erase the damage from the part that occurred before. Don't have the ideal condition remover for this particular situation? Use what you have and boon will give an added benefit. Need a hex off an ally with low health? Don't pick between healing and hex removal, do both in one shot. And because protection spells are more conditional than heals, prot monks tend to cast less frequently overall and can afford the increased costs of running boon. And if you have a situation where the boon is unnecessary or drains your energy too much, you can drop it and spam regular spells (I do this with mend ailment vs. condition stacking teams).

As far as blessed aura vs. boon goes, both could be useful, but I think blessed aura would require a more specialized build. The only prot spells it affects are RoF, Guardian, Shielding Hands, Protective Spirit, Aegis, and 3 elites: Mark of Protection, Shield of Deflection, and Shield of Regeneration. Shielding Hands is worthless, RoF gains no benefit from a longer duration, and Prot Spirit lasts a long time already. That leaves guardian, aegis, and the elites. Every 20% gets you 1 additional second of guardian, so with a staff and blessed aura you could get it to about 8 seconds. Guardian is only for protecting single targets anyway, so I'd rather just cast it again. Aegis could definitely benefit from this, as could the elites, but you can only bring one of those. Making an "aegis-bot" to keep that up all the time might be feasible, but I'd rather have a bonder or heal party bot if you're going to get that dedicated. Other lines might see more benefit from blessed aura.

Ugh, that's a long post. No more long build talks from me, I'll just find a post by Ensign and link to it :D

[Saya]

Hell no, keep up the posting! You defending your points well, and for that I'm going to try it and keep an open mind but there are some things that bother me. I'm just very picky.
[quote name='Ace of Spades']Guardian is only for protecting single targets anyway, so I'd rather just cast it again. Aegis could definitely benefit from this, as could the elites, but you can only bring one of those. Making an "aegis-bot" to keep that up all the time might be feasible, but I'd rather have a bonder or heal party bot if you're going to get that dedicated. Other lines might see more benefit from blessed aura.[/quote]Makes sense now that I think about it. Guardian does have a 2 second recharge, and Aegis's regard is what, 30 seconds? Hrm.

I still don't love Holy Veil but with Smite Hex taking such a long time to become available again, oh well. What is true though is that HV takes a while to use properly: which clicking off takes 3 seconds, and a soul alive that says otherwise is a little on the slow side. A lot do like it, it's great for hex removal with certain builds (spikers prefer infuse monks for instance to have it), but it does take a second longer than required. Not always an option for heal monks, but seems to be a decent choice here.

Given what you said about Mantra of Recall I would suppose it is better for longer matches where you know that your team maes can back you up (either other prot monks or heal monks). The energy back is well worth everything that sets OoB ahead in my opinion, and does get you out of that sacrificing pitfall OoB shoves you in (I can count many times over the amount of Mo/N that have died trying to give themselves energy in pvp, but yes I suppose if a prot monk is all alone and is in need of quick energy there is no way around this). So I'll go with it, until I find something better.

Not too fond on prot monks doing anything other than prot (as far as boon is concerned), but in TA and the like it might just be needed to stay alive, and of course boon prot is the flavor of the month for a good reason.

Everything else I liked a lot and I look forward to trying it both ways... using your ideas for N and my ideas for Me... in the end I'm sure it'll both turn out decently, just depends on style of play and type of team you go with.

Again kinda hoping to see something in the way of Martyr/Draw conditions but oh well :D I'll see if I can adapt it into the build. But with Spirit and Aura it too is very specialized and needs a real coordinated party to pull off well: better suited for GvG in my opinion rather than Tombs but don't quote me on that.

Anyhow for now this is the build I came up with based on what everyone said... and I've been using it, damn good. Thanks a bunch all.
[quote=Boon Prot Build w/ focus on conditions and Prot]Prot build setup. Can be done with Mo/Me, few skills for that added at the bottom..

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of health instead, maximum 32.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:2

- Aegis (Protection Prayers)
Your entire team is enchanted with Aegis. For 7 seconds, your allies have a 50% chance to block attacks.
Energy:15 Cast Time:1 Recharge:30

- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
For 5 seconds, target ally has a 28% chance to block attacks.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:2

- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
While you maintain this Enchantment, whenever you cast a monk spell on an ally, that ally is healed for 28 health and you lose 2 energy.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

- Holy Veil (Monk other)
While you maintain this "Enchantment", any "Hex" cast on target creature take twice as long to cast.
Energy:10 Cast Time:2 Recharge:0

- Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
Remove one "Condition" (poison, disease, blindness, dazed, bleed, crippled, or deep wound) from target ally. That ally is healed 22 for each remaining Condition.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:2

- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
All negative Conditions are transfered from target other ally to yourself. For each Condition acquired, you are healed for 11 health.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0 *

* My Alt for Devotion, I like this approach better. Less heal.

- Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximum health. You gain 8..18 energy.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:15


Alternative configuration

- Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Heal target ally for 20 health.
Energy:0 Cast Time:2 Recharge:5

- Blessed Aura (Divine Favor)
While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 12% longer than normal.
Energy:10 Cast Time:2 Recharge:2

- Divine Spirit (Divine Favor)
For the next 2 seconds, monk spells cost you 5 less energy to cast. (Minimum cost: 1 energy).
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:60

- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Heal entire party for 20 health.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:0

- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 11 health, lose one Hex and lose one Condition.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:5 *

* Alt for Devotion/Draw Conditions.

- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration)
For 20 seconds, you gain no benefits from it. You gain 20..30 energy when Mantra of Recall ends.
Energy:15 Cast Time:1 Recharge:20[/quote]I would love to use Martyr more but that requires a specialized build in and of itself, so it'll have to wait. :)

If anyone is interested in what builds I use for a Heal Monk... I've recently begun to use Infuse Heal, but it can be replaced with Seed... depends on the circumstances (Infuse, for instance, works well against spike teams and teams that do quick damage). With Infuse Heal, self-heal after the health split isn't really all that difficult... a quick touch and if need be, orison, quickly clears it up.

[quote=St Mary's Infuse/Heal Build]Infuse Heal monk build that can be the foundation for obvious heal monk choices. Yes a Necro secondary adaptation can be made but for all intents and purposes the Mesmer is the most straight forward. The necro does not include Word of Healing for instance, and has signet of devotion along side of Offering of Blood. Depends what you're after but I for one like the Mo/Me end of it.

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 13 (12+1)
Healing Prayers: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration: 2

(Erm program got a little scewed up there, the stats should be common sense and if not I'll set you straight on them later. The skills are what is important here.)

- Word of Healing [Elite] (Healing Prayers)
Heal target other ally for 84. Heal for an additional 106 if that ally is below 50% health.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:4

- Orison of Healing (Healing Prayers)
Heal target ally for 73.

Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:2

- Dwayna's Kiss (Healing Prayers)
Heal target other ally for 63 and an additional 21 for each Enchantment or Hex on that ally.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:3

- Infuse Health (Healing Prayers)
Lose half your current health. Target other ally is healed for 139% of the amount you lost.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

- Healing Touch (Healing Prayers)
Heal target touched ally for 63 health. Health gain from Divine Favor is doubled for this spell.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:5

- Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 5 energy. For the next 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced with the Hex that was removed.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:0

- Energy Tap (Inspiration)
Steal 9 energy from target foe.
Energy:5 Cast Time:3 Recharge:20

- Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. You can only use this skill ring once per mission.
Energy:0 Cast Time:3 Recharge:0


Alternative configuration

- Healing Seed (Healing Prayers)
For 21 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damages, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 32 health.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:25

- Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
For the next 10 seconds, target ally regenerates 10 health regeneration each second.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:2[/quote]
[SIZE=4]Now take a deep breath...[/SIZE]

All right it has come to the attention of the Guild Officers of QKT that we do not do as much pvp as we could be doing (if you have [i]no interest in pvp[/i] don't worry about it, if you do though, now is the time to come forward). Some of us have taken to joining other guilds for pvp events, like myself, while still remaining in QKT... hopefully we can do a little of our own experimenting in that department.

With some extremely experienced pvpers as guild members we're sending out the call to those interested in pvp to come join the ranks of QKT pvping. We've got voice services for those of you who are interested, and we can and should begin preparing 8v8 builds for Tombs and/or GvG battle.

Time is a sad thing isn't it? M'fraid with school coming back for most of us it'll be difficult at best to make it on. But maybe a schedule of play times would be appropriate. At the very least please reply if you're at all interested in pvping, and we'll see what we can or can't do.

Generally speaking I'm available in the evenings from 7 pm EST on until midnight or 1 am EST during school nights, and later on weekends. I know this time frame is extremely broad but hopefully we can narrow it down once we see some responses.

[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]

[Guest aceofspades]

A few last notes on protection builds:

Holy veil does take a while to use, even under the best of circumstances. It tends to take me about 2 seconds to cast it and drop the enchantment (I succeeded in "defusing" an Incendiary bonds only once with HV). The reason I use HV instead of Remove Hex, then, is because of the quick cast time - 1 second for HV instead of the please-interrupt-me 2 second Remove Hex cast time. The 3 second longer recharge is well worth it for this feature alone. The difference is even less when you realize that due to cast times, Remove Hex is only usable every 9 seconds, HV every 11. But HV also has the added benefit of its alternate usage as a proactive defense. If a Mes gives you trouble, keep HV up all the time (perhaps instead of boon). And I always start the match with HV on for initial protection - with full energy, why not? I personally think Remove Hex could use a buff. As for Smite, it's a great skill, but if I can only carry one hex removal I want it to be one that can be used more frequently.

The other issue with mantra vs OoB is the spiking effect of mantra on your energy supply. Starting the mantra gives a 10 energy downward spike, and when it wears off you get an upspike of well over 20 energy. It can be difficult not to waste some of the gain by hitting your max energy, and the 10 energy cost is much like an artificial "new zero point" on your energy supply - if you dare to go below that, you no longer have energy managment. Try both though, and see what you like. Other inspiration skills are more useful than the necro blood spells, so there are other benefits to mes secondary. The health hit on OoB really isn't that bad though. On my standard build, it's 48 hp - my divine favor bonus by itself nearly heals that. Sure, there have been one or two occasions where I couldn't afford the health hit to use OoB, but I can safely say that it didn't matter - when you drop below 50 hp, you're pretty much dead anyway, especially as a monk. My health only hits that level when I have a few warriors or something pounding on me anyway, and under such circumstances a few extra energy really doesn't make a difference.

As far as Martyr goes, I haven't had much opportunity to test it out, but I like the reasoning behind putting it on a secondary monk, perhaps a sword W/Mo, rather than one of the primaries. The elite spot on a monk is, IMO, best used for energy management or one of the good elites like Word.

[Boba Fett]

[color=green]From current Guild Wars players...

If you were going to give a new player advice what would it be?

Are there any builds that should be avoided? That aren't common?

Anything at all...[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Well, I don't know a lot about PvP, but for PvE I have a few things to say. First would be to just use common sense. That will get you ahead of probably half the other players out there. Basically just ask yourself, "Are these skills I'm using working well?" If they aren't, look through the others available to you and experiment with things that look like they'd work better.

Experiment and change things up until you find a skill set that's effective and enjoyable. I found that to be a lot of fun when I first started playing. As I got more skills, I'd change my build around to fit in the skills I found to be the most useful while discarding those that I found I wasn't really using, or weren't really doing much. After a while you get a feel for what works well together and whatnot. You can completely change your stats around without limitation so long as you're in town, so you don't have to worry about screwing your character up at all.

Pretty much any class combination can be effective if you know what you're doing. (And, in fact, you can do fine using only your primary class.) Some are easier to play than others -- it's not exactly hard to just run up and beat on something as a warrior, for example -- but all of them are workable. So I'd mainly just say to pick something that you think you'd enjoy.[/color]

[Leofski]

I've just come back to the game after an extended break ( I got shown how to break my uni firewall) and found my old guild disbanded and many of my mates gone. Would it be possible to join QKT, either through the international districts or region switching. I'm a reasonably proficient PvE player (@ Thunderhead Keep atm), with very little PvP experience.

[Saya]

[quote=Boba Fett] From current Guild Wars players...

If you were going to give a new player advice what would it be?

Are there any builds that should be avoided? That aren't common?

Anything at all...
[/quote]Sir,

I would agree with Desbreko 100%, common sense is key. You'd be surprised how many people on Guild Wars don't have common sense and go and play something they know won't work out well for them. I'd say know yourself a little bit, what you really want to play, what - at the time - you think will work.

Trust me, you can always change things later on (secondaries you can switch much later on in the game), so just be sure to select a primary class you absolutely, positively want to play as well as an appearance. It might seem superficial, but an appearance is everything... once you got those two essentials down, anything is possible.

Do you like Warriors? Shoot for it. Like Elementalists? Go for it. I know it is a tough decision to make in the beginning because you're not sure what each profession essentially can do. A basic run down though, Warriors can use axes, swords, or hammers, Elementalists can be Air (lightning), fire, and water (chaotic than the rest), and Earth. Mesmers focus on draining the enemy, confusing the enemy, and re-directing the enemy's attack.

What you play is truly up to you. If you dislike Air (as Air is not as effective as fire half the time in PvE), shoot for fire later on when you have more attribute points to experiment. Nothing is set in stone except your first primary class.

PvP is different from PvE... it causes you to think about the relationship between professions and their individual aspects. What do I mean? Well, in PvE you want to combine the best of your primary with the best of your secondary in order to create a character that does what you want (a character that has a specific "build" set).

For instance... Knock down elementalists may use Earth Magic to knock their foes down and while their foes are down cause a ton of damage to them. What are the skills for that? Earthquake followed by an aftershock. Why is that cool? Picture a team of other knock down characters fighting... timed properly, this team can cause a lot of damage, knocking their targets down so they are helpless and throwing a load of pain on them.

Would I suggest PvP for a beginner? Yes and no. If you are interested in PvP I would experiment with the templates offered in the PvP creation wizard when you boot up guild wars. Run a PvE character as your primary character, and have fun with a PvP character.

Why a beginners approach? Because you can only unlock skills for use in PvP for the different professions by essentially either playing in PvE with the same profession (elementalists in PvE unlock skills for use in PvP), or by fighting in PvE in which you earn [b]Faction[/b], and then can unlock things in PvP that way through the Priests of Balthazar.

Advanced players of PvP can be of two sorts: players that have PvP and PvE characters like I suggested and unlock more skills for use during PvE, or players that only have PvP characters and unlock skills by wins in PvP, earning more [b]Faction[/b] to spend unlocking things.

Both are decent approaches, but that's up to you. Are you a PvPer only or do you have an interest in PvE (the story game)? If both, create both - a PvP character initially with the template just to explore it while you unlock things in PvE. If you're just a PVPer go for PvP only and unlock through earning faction. The choice is essentially yours.

A build I would avoid at the moment? A monk with the sole intention of smiting (simply because the AoE a smiter delivers isn't really all that relevant anymore), and maybe any sort of ele that isn't fire... in the beginning it could become kind of silly. Air ignores armor, sure, but it isn't very practical in PvE. Damage wise fire has better opportunities going for it. But I have no specific builds I would avoid trying. Again, if you get Air skills, you can be a fire ele still - cool thing is, it unlocks those skills you get for PvP use.

I hope I was of some assistance.

Let us know when you get on GW so we can send your primary character a guild invite, we?re currently looking for PvPers (Rangers would be just daisy) *smirks*.

~ PB
[size=1][right][i]GW Signature...[/i][/right][/size][center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]
[center][IMG]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5220/bangbang7hp.gif[/IMG][/center]
[center][SIZE=1][b]No res signet? No fun.[/b][/size][/center]
[center][b]~~~~~[/b][/center]