Anime I have a question about animes in america.

[rascalkitten]

have you ever noticed about how america take good mangas and makes them terroble? if america wants to make anime they could give the to adult swim so that they can atleat get a decint rateng. i mean they took .hack// and messed it up. no zeffie, no final mystery, no nothing funny. i mean mayber for the first few episodes it was like the manga, but in alot of animes the change the names and totally mess up the whole story plot. like in yugioh, tea's name is anzul tristen is honda, the only name not changed is yugis name.

[HondaTohru]

I've never read yu gi oh but I've watched a few episodes...they seriously changed the characters names?? American DNAngel is one f*cked up anime it is too much different from the manga to be likable but at least the names are the same lol.

[GTK]

[quote name='rascalkitten'] i mean mayber for the first few episodes it was like the manga, but in alot of animes the change the names and totally mess up the whole story plot. like in yugioh, tea's name is anzul tristen is honda, the only name not changed is yugis name.[/quote]



In general, anime and manga are not the same... it would be silly to just straight convert it. The Bleach anime and manga are the closest to being the same I've ever seen and it's still a bit different to make it interesting enough. But, yeah....the anime is usually different from the manga because sometimes the manga isn't finished when the anime is started and they have to make stuff up (take the X movie, for example... which had a character that wasn't even in the manga since the manga hadn't introduced that character yet when the movie was cranked out)

A lot of names gets changed depending on who the anime/manga is marketed towards. Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh are geared at kids, so they are gonna change the names. For a kid who's like 8 years old, pronouncing odd japanese named is gonna be really odd. So Kojiro and Musashi become James and Jesse, Jounouchi (sp?) becomes Joey, and so on. It's just easier for kids to relate to characters who have familiar or easy enough names for them to remember.

It makes sense why they would change certain names, but it's still irritating.

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]Seeing as this discussion seems to be centering around anime rather than manga, I'm moving it to the Anime Lounge. Please make sure to be clear on the topic's subject to avoid confusion and spamming.[/COLOR]

[r2vq]

[quote name='rascalkitten']have you ever noticed about how america take good mangas and makes them terroble? if america wants to make anime they could give the to adult swim so that they can atleat get a decint rateng. [/quote]

If Anime is to be successful in the United States, the companies selling them must make money. For that reason a lot of anime has had their target audience changed to a younger age. The younger age group has a stronger buying power when it comes to merchandise, and isn't affected as much by the stereotype in the west that "cartoons are for children." ...but probably because they [i]are[/i] children...

Adult Swim and anime directed towards older people exist in the United States, but compare the popularity of these series to the popularity of Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokémon. The marketting for these series can do what they can [i]because[/i] they are directed towards a younger audience.

I used to be just like you. I was very, very, pissed off when they changed Jounouchi, Honda, and Anzu to Joey, Tristen, and Téa. But like GTK said, there [i]is[/i] a reason. The series would be most popular among children, and children need to be able to pronounce the name. For them to stop changing things, [i]all[/i] cartoons in general have to become more popular and accepted with people of all ages.

So, what you should hope for is not that the Animation or Dubbing business changes, but that society changes. Hopefully society can change so that discrimination like this doesn't exist. Hopefully society can change so that bigotry like this doesn't exist. Hopefully society can change so that cartoons can be for anybody.

edit::
[quote]like in yugioh, tea's name is anzul tristen is honda, the only name not changed is yugis name.[/quote]
AnzuL? It would help if you typed things properly. Make your messages a bit more coherent. It only takes a moment and that way you wouldn't accidentally change the names of people... just like what you're complaining about.

-ArV

[Dagger]

[quote name='rascalkitten']have you ever noticed about how america take good mangas and makes them terroble? if america wants to make anime they could give the to adult swim so that they can atleat get a decint rateng. i mean they took .hack// and messed it up. no zeffie, no final mystery, no nothing funny. i mean mayber for the first few episodes it was like the manga, but in alot of animes the change the names and totally mess up the whole story plot. like in yugioh, tea's name is anzul tristen is honda, the only name not changed is yugis name.[/quote]
1. Using the words "anime" and "manga" interchangeably is only going to confuse the heck out of people (myself included).

2. When anime are different from the manga upon which they're based, it can usually be attributed to a decision on the part of the Japanese company which originally produced said anime. The [i]vast[/i] majority of R1 anime is bilingual and uncut. Of course, if you're just looking at series that show up on TV, that's a slightly different story.

3. No one's going to be able to follow your argument unless you keep your examples straight. You switch around so abruptly that it's hard to know what you're referring to. For example, I have no clue about which .hack series you had in mind.

Nor do I have any idea where this thread is supposed to be headed, but perhaps someone will explain it to me... ? :animeswea

~Dagger~

[r2vq]

[quote name='Dagger']Nor do I have any idea where this thread is supposed to be headed, but perhaps someone will explain it to me... ? :animeswea [/quote]

My guess is that rascalkitten saw a show on TV, then read a Manga and noticed a difference. It' s also possible, and I believe more likely, that he/she heard from somewhere how badly a certain series was censored or changed in the English version.

He/She probably didn't know that manga and anime are never perfect reflections of each other, and thought it was the American broadcasters that changed things. This ignorance is not to be blamed, though, since so many dubbies, and subbies alike, complain about the American companies changing things [i]all the time[/i]. This leads newbies to think, wrongly albeit I believe fairly, that all changes stem from American broadcasters.

GTK already explained why Manga was different from Anime pretty well. I just wanted to add my two-cents on the topic of Anime importing and [i]try[/i] to clear a few misconceptions........

-ArV

[GTK]

I thought I'd post this because I found it interesting... it was taken from the journal entry of someone on Livejournal (Nyanko-chan, if anyone happens to know who she is?).

--start copy/paste--

I never understand why they take a popular kids show and repackage it so much for american audiences. Ok, no scratch that, I DO understand but I hate the reason they give for their changes.
They always say American children are different than Japanese children and wouldnt like the same things.
I find that to be a load of bunk, it's not the American child and the Japanese child that differs, its the American PARENT and Japanese PARENT that differs.
Kids are simple, kids are entertained by the same basic principles, if its entertaining to a billion kids in one country, you can pretty much bet the same property is going to entertain a billion kids in Japan,America, Mexico, France, Botswana, you name it.

Now, if the companies would say:
"We are editing this for the American parents who underestimate the intelligence of their children. We are editing out any cohesive story that might be in here as we feel that pesky little plot might distract our children from the bright colors and flashing lights. We feel American children arent mature enough to handle adult topics like death, homosexuality, or god forbid, SMOKING...even tho we are well aware that middle school kids are out having babies. We are editing this so that it narrows down the veiwers who will enjoy this to our specific age demographic no more no less, in order to target our "key" audience, in doing so we know full well we are alienating anyone outside of that group, but we dont care because clearly any adult that would enjoy a cartoon and wish to support it must be a social reject and live in their mother's basement, and thus have no money."

I think thats what bugs me about it, not that they DO edit it, but WHY they edit it. It seems a hypocritcal act the censor something so mundane when we have far worse thing on the tv, radio and in movies, but not in cartoons because american children are stupid.



---end copy/paste--

the whole thing can be found here~ [url]http://www.livejournal.com/~nyanko_chan/260594.html[/url]

[MidoriWaterfall]

pretty much everyone above has explained. though, it would be a little rediculous to have the same exact thing transferred to anime from the manga. the mangas are a lot longer than the series if people have noticed, and for anime, they try to make it 30 min or 1 hour. anime tries to take their time while manga goes into it a bit faster, and then they get into something else, but trying to stick to the plot. also, jounachi (sp?) is, if i'm not correct, is joey translated in english. some animes, like friuts basket, keep the name and a bit of the personality the same as the manga. but what kind of ticks me off is in tokyo mew mew, they have ichigo, whom is zoey (i don't get how they get [I]strawberry[/I] to [I]zoey[/I] ) is a little more ditzy in the anime series in Mew Mew Power. they also edit out stuff, mainly because i believe so it's nothing bad for kids to watch.

[Sapphire Flare]

Yeah, I don't know why it's so hard for the ppl ot just stick with the program, and not screw it up. I mean, Full Metal Alchemist is probably one of the only Anime's that I actually watch. Well, that and Rurouni Kenshin+Yuyu Hakasho.

I've read the mangas and those three were the only ones that weren't [I]completely[/I] twisted around. Naruto's good too but that is coming soon >: D. They [U]better[/U] not mess [I]that [/I] up. If they do, I will hunt them down.

[EVA Unit 100]

.HACK was completely uncut on TV in both series. And DN Angel isn't even close to being editted since it was never on American TV (outside of Anime Network, but they don't edit anything unless it's Gantz, which was editted in Japan as well). You are aware that it is possible for you to not like an anime the way it was invisioned it Japan, aren't you? Case closed.

[Osaka Sakaki]

well i just to say a couple things to back everybodys story about how the manga if differat then anime.
Ok we"ll take DBZ[>].off the back[or off the top of my head].Gohan is Goku ad Chi Chi's first son who is named after Goku"s adoptive Grandfater,but the anime makes up another reason.GreT Kai "Dai Kaiou" is never seen in the manga but is in the anime.Or Kaioshin of the East "Higashu noKaioushin.well thats just a little simple.Oh yeah and the trigun maanga is a oh lot differant.[not really but theres some differances] :animeswea :animesigh :animeknow

[elflord9d]

I agree with this. The USA's fear of people being offended or censoring things for the lit'lins is terrible. I was watching One Peice on the Fox Box.(My lil bro [14 years old] LOVES One Peice and I like anime so I thought why not). The 1st thing I see is nami saying somthing along the lines of "Great! With all this grapefruit juice they'll pass out from acid indegestion." In the book and japanese anime they drink grog(Rum).Also all the pirate pistols(the flint ones) are edited and turned into stupid things like a hammer machine. I knew then and there, that the censorship of anime in my grand country has gone way too far.

[zaphod]

US censorship just seems more intense than it actually is because for the most part anime in the US has been marketed to children. But now with Adult Swim, we'll see more anime marketed for adults, and the censorship will be lax or nonexistant since children wont be watching it.
If a Nationwide anime network existed i doubt it would have much censoring beyond specialized v chip type things similiar to what porn networks have.


Also,you people need to realize that changing characters names isnt the biggest deal. Plust the whole reason why those shows are even in the US is because wb and the other companies here realized that with slight modifications the shows would make excellent kids cartoons. They never really anticipated adults bitching about the shows being to childish or too westernized since they figured adults wouldnt watch the shows.

Besides, why are you so into pokemon and yu gi oh? read or watch something more intelligent.

[CajunBaby86]

I think it's a matter of personal taste, really. Now don't get me wrong, I watch YuGiOh, but I won't buy the edited dvds cause I'd rather wait and see what I missed when the uncut versions come out.

This is where I have a bone to pick: some anime they release the 'as shown on tv' version, then months or years later they finally get around to releasing the uncut versions. Why??? Why not release them both at the same time?!

It's not the fact that they chop shows up to advertise to a younger audience, that's understandable. Same goes for dubbed names. No big deal. Get over it. But there are some shows that AREN'T made for small children and when they pick and pick at those and make them for little kids, [U]that[/U] makes me mad.

If I stepped on anyone's toes about this, I'm sorry, but I think this is the reason that I just go to Suncoast and buy anime that looks appealing.

[Shinichi Kudou]

[COLOR=Navy]As for the name changes, alot of the time with dubs, the Japanese company chooses to hold copyright laws for the character names and the anime's title. Therefore the dubbing companies have to change them...

Though, other companies do choose to americanize the names themselves. -_-;

As for the Anime being different then the Manga.... it has to different. It can't be exactly the same, also...it would be kind of a drag if it was. Originallity is good. [/COLOR]

[DuoMaxwell2o6]

[quote name='elflord9d]I agree with this. The USA's fear of people being offended or censoring things for the lit'lins is terrible. I was watching One Peice on the Fox Box.(My lil bro [14 years old'] LOVES One Peice and I like anime so I thought why not). The 1st thing I see is nami saying somthing along the lines of "Great! With all this grapefruit juice they'll pass out from acid indegestion." In the book and japanese anime they drink grog(Rum).Also all the pirate pistols(the flint ones) are edited and turned into stupid things like a hammer machine. I knew then and there, that the censorship of anime in my grand country has gone way too far.[/quote]

another thing i noticed is that they changed sanji's cigerette to a lollipop...wth? i thought that was so stupid...kids see cigerettes in tv and movies and their parents probably smoke them...so wats wrong with sanji smoking one? its just stupid for it to be a lollipop...

[IceRose]

America took the few good anime and changed it to their own advantage not thinking that people had actually seen the real shows and read the mangas

[BlackTigerGurl]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]I know what you're saying is true. I live here in America and I hate the fact that they change different animes up. Like Tokyo Mew Mew, now is Mew Mew Power. The names have been changed and the story line has also been changed. Mew Mew Power kinda reminds me of Sailor Moon. A sorry Sailor Moon though. I dispise living here in America for changing my favorite animes and making me hate them when they come onto TV. Just going to have to live with it. :animesigh [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='DuoMaxwell2o6']another thing i noticed is that they changed sanji's cigerette to a lollipop...wth? i thought that was so stupid...kids see cigerettes in tv and movies and their parents probably smoke them...so wats wrong with sanji smoking one? its just stupid for it to be a lollipop...[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]That is something I can actually understand. Having characters smoking, good or bad, and regardless of whether the kids' parents actually smoke it's going to promote it in some way, and I completely abhor smoking.

You're speaking as if everyone's going to start anyway, which isn't something I agree with. Having drink in animes aimed at kids is one thing, but cigarettes is another. I know this argument begs the question 'Well, how can you be for one evil and against another?', but I just disagree with smoking more than I do with drinking (so long as it's in moderation).[/COLOR]

[r2vq]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine][COLOR=#503F86']Having characters smoking, good or bad, and regardless of whether the kids' parents actually smoke it's going to promote it in some way, and I completely abhor smoking.[/COLOR][/quote]

I disagree slightly. I loathe smoking. My parents have smoked since I was a child and I still find it sickening. I see smoking in the theaters all the time, and it still makes me cough when I smell somebody's smoke.

Whenever I go to see a movie there's an advertisement that tries to stop smoking in [b]all[/b] movies. They say "The more smoking teens see in movies, the more likely they'll start to smoke." I hate that advertisement as much as the anti-pirating advertisements.

Seeing more smoking isn't going to make me want to smoke. It never has, and I've seen a [b]lot[/b] more smoking than I should have in my life.

I say education is the key. It's the only way children can truly understand the repercussions and risks. Sheltering is just not the answer.

-ArV

[Solo Tremaine]

[QUOTE=r2vq]I disagree slightly. I loathe smoking. My parents have smoked since I was a child and I still find it sickening. I see smoking in the theaters all the time, and it still makes me cough when I smell somebody's smoke.

Whenever I go to see a movie there's an advertisement that tries to stop smoking in [b]all[/b] movies. They say "The more smoking teens see in movies, the more likely they'll start to smoke." I hate that advertisement as much as the anti-pirating advertisements.

Seeing more smoking isn't going to make me want to smoke. It never has, and I've seen a [b]lot[/b] more smoking than I should have in my life.

I say education is the key. It's the only way children can truly understand the repercussions and risks. Sheltering is just not the answer.

-ArV[/QUOTE][COLOR=#503F86]Yes, but you're [i]sensible[/i]. I'm not saying that seeing smokers on screen always promotes people to smoke, but it certainly doesn't help when kids are presented with an image of a character who they're made to identify with who smokes. It reinforces the positive associations with smoking itself.

I can't remember who said it, but an old prestigious actor said something along the lines of "Cigarettes are tools for bad actors"- to put across disdain, disgust or other fairly complex emotions they'd use the smoke from the cigarette to convey the emotions their face should be able to display. They can be a very effective dramatic tool if used properly, but otherwise having them in just for the sake of it isn't something I agree with.

I didn't mind them in Trigun, but to me it seemed in context with the rest of the show and it fitted with his character. Admittedly I've never seen One Piece, but if it was actually intended to be a mainly kid-orientated show then there shouldn't have been a real need to have the cigarettes put there in the first place.

I highly agree that education is possibly the most important factor in deciding matters like this. But that doesn't mean I have to like what often appears to me as a vague glorification of cigarettes.[/COLOR]

[Chaos]

I'd like to take this time to point out that not only is "American anime" an oxymoron, but that Adult Swim doesn't make anime. Adult Swim is a registered name under Cartoon Network/Turner Media's umbrella, not a dubbing company. They merely air the shows that they can buy the rights to.

[Panny]

[QUOTE=r2vq]I disagree slightly. I loathe smoking. My parents have smoked since I was a child and I still find it sickening. I see smoking in the theaters all the time, and it still makes me cough when I smell somebody's smoke.

Whenever I go to see a movie there's an advertisement that tries to stop smoking in [b]all[/b] movies. They say "The more smoking teens see in movies, the more likely they'll start to smoke." I hate that advertisement as much as the anti-pirating advertisements.

Seeing more smoking isn't going to make me want to smoke. It never has, and I've seen a [b]lot[/b] more smoking than I should have in my life.

I say education is the key. It's the only way children can truly understand the repercussions and risks. Sheltering is just not the answer.

-ArV[/QUOTE]

Yes, but however, I have been thuaght not to smoke for my entire education. This dause not affect teens very much. It's school, they learn about how bad it is, then go out and see....a bunch of kids smoking and having fun. The [I]cool[/I] kids. So whats next? They get a huge plan to go out with thier friends to a movie. Then *boom* it's about cool girls smoking, and cool guys. If you smoke, your populer, if your populer, you live a perfect life, plus, popularity. So then what? Take a littl puff, then more, until your totally addicted. Unfortunatly, you the sensiblr teen, others won't be as bright as you. You say no to smoking already. You've been smoked infront of for your whole life. We must remember, that your one of the unfortunate one to have that life.

[Dagger]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine][COLOR=#503F86']They can be a very effective dramatic tool if used properly, but otherwise having them in just for the sake of it isn't something I agree with.[/color][/quote]
Yet editing it--especially since every single one of the edits (and in One Piece, they're all but countless) will get carried over to the DVD version--just isn't the solution. Ideally one should have to take it as it is, or leave it. Even censoring out aspects of a manga/anime which are offensive & harmful at worst and have little artistic worth at best (such as the rape scenes in the Tenjho Tenge manga and the smoking in One Piece) is, in my opinion, something negative. And it's a slippery slope.

You can't slice out an aspect of someone else's creation and act as if the resulting product will be better for [i]everyone[/i], no matter how much more you may like it--or, in the case of 4Kids and One Piece, how much better it might sell. That's the essential problem I have with how they're treating One Piece; what they're doing to the broadcast version is honestly very silly (in rushing to alter anything which might be even minutely edgy, they've pretty much ruined whatever appeal the show could hold for kids and people of any age group, as is evidenced by its dismal ratings). But I wouldn't care much if I were able to choose between edited & unedited DVDs. Unfortunately, it looks as though I won't have that choice.

I sort of went off on a tangent here. To clarify: I do understand why they edited One Piece, at least in regards to the smoking (which continues to be a hot-button issue here in the States). But I felt that you were saying you didn't have a problem with cigarettes being edited out because you personally dislike them. I'm sure I'd be tempted to edit Ayeka out of Tenchi (yeah, I know that's an awfully silly parallel to draw--just bear with me) if I were given the option. That doesn't make it right. CMX's version of Tenjho Tenge may be somewhat less likely to corrupt the youth of America, but that doesn't make editing the manga acceptable.

From my perspective, it's 4Kids' fault for licensing a series with smoking, blood & gore, tragic characters, etc. and sticking it on a television block that requires such extreme sanitization. One Piece is not aimed at an adult audience in Japan, but it's definitely not a "kids' show," certainly not going by American standards. And seeing how as 4Kids felt compelled to slice & dice it down to American standards when they aired it, they should have simply licensed something more kid-friendly (or parent-friendly, as the case may be) in the first place.

~Dagger~