Censorship

[Jake of Bodom]

[QUOTE]Stop the religious groups cmplaining? But that's whay Metal is dressed up in such devil insignia in the first place! They want to rile the religious groups, rebel, and cause a stir. [/QUOTE]

LMFAO!!! Oh my God, that's one of the funniest damn things I've ever heard. Obviously you know NOTHING about metal AT ALL. Devil insignia? No, there's only one sect of metal that truly gets into the whole Satan thing (Black metal), and that didn't appear until the early 90s. If metal "dressed up in all that devil insignia" in the first place, it would have happened in the 70s when metal came to life. Metal isn't about riling the religious groups - it's about the ******* music. If you happen to be one of those people who goes around saying that all metal is satanic without knowing a single thing about it, you need to go play a nice little game of hide and go **** yourself. There are tons and tons of Christian metal bands out there - Christian death metal, Christian power metal, Christian metalcore, Christian "white" metal (Black metal style metal with Christian lyrics). As for secular metal, lyrics range from slaying dragons to the expansion of emotional and mental awareness. You know nothing about metal, so don't talk like you do.

I do, however, see your point with the Ozzfest illustrations, but that's all they are: illustrations. They know nothing about a single band on the tour besides Black Sabbath (who they're target, who isn't Satanic in the slightest bit. Not at all. And it's not Ozzy that's taking the 'Fest to Utah, it's Sharon Osbourne. She runs the whole thing. And yes, she's probably asking for it, but that's just it: we all know they were gonna have a problem with it, but should that stop the rest of us from ejoying the 'Fest? It's hard to be a metalhead in Utah in the first place. This is censorship at one of it's worst.

[Goodbye, Face]

This argument fits everything from gay marriage to "satanic" metal tours. If you don't like it, don't go. The Ozzfest has an obviously huge fanbase, so why would you want to stop them from coming to your state? Is it going to desecrate your land? No! Is it going to bring Satan to your door? Hell no! So why? Why can't you put on your Frank Sinatra (or whatever) and shut up and let the metal kids enjoy their show?

[cecelia rose]

[COLOR=Green]Well, anyway, going back to censorship and my idea of "all or nothing" like maybe an hour ago, I heard (once again) a Green day song, "Longview" on (once again) 102.1 FM. And I heard it, and (once again) the censorship was (once again) idiotic! There's this line, "I'm sick of all the same old s**t" and you could hear, perfectly well, s**t, the ONLY thing missing was the "i", and even a monkey could figure out it was s**t.

Another line: "When masturbation's lost its fun" was masturbation edited, I think not!! Yet another line: "You're f***ing breaking" You heard "fing", so, again, you could figure that word out. It amazes me how weird the censorship is. Isn't the whole point of censorship removing the word [U]entirely[/U] and not being able to figure it out? Oh, don't get me wrong, I love Green Day, but, little kids have easy axcess to the radio, I think the censorship should have been A LOT better, or better yet, they shouldn't have messed with it at all!

I actually am starting to think the people who censor the songs are purpously wanting to piss all of us off, instead of doing its intended purpose. I mean, really, its pissing us off in the way our songs are now just, kinda ruined in a way, but not totally destroyed, but still, it kinda matters to music lovers. What I'm saying, if censorship was ACTUALLY doing its job, I'd be okay, but my brother figured out s**t and f***ing, no problem.[/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

Another one that really gets me: a-****. Yes, a-****. I saw this while watching Big Dadddy. How absurd is that? Are they afraid kids will run around going "Hole! Hole!"

[grecords]

When I think about it I really don't see how it hurts to limit the amount of cursing a person hears on tv. When a child sees regular shows throwing around certain words they will subconsiously begin to think its a norm. While a curse word here and there isn't horrible some shows and some musical artists (mainstream rap) don't need to drop a profanity at the beginning and end of every statement.

How much do you curse a day? I know I curse a lot. I curse like a sailor, and it gets me in trouble at work, during job interviews, and sometimes it slips when I'm talking to my parents or older family members. I could say its my cirlce of friends or my generation I grew up with, but its really just from hearing from all outlets of entertainment and media I watch/listen to. Generations ago it wasn't casual to drop the s-word or f-bomb on tv, or the radio.

One other point, have we noticed how backwards we (america) is compared to other countries. While other countries might censor violence they really don't try to censor nudity or sex as hard as we do. I may see a point in censorship (I'm not completely sold on censorship though, I'll get to why in a sec) but I don't see how a womans naked body will damage a childs psyche unless the woman is being abused or degraded.

My mother used to always make sure I never saw a sex scene with movies that came home but god the violent films I watched. I've never got a girl pregnant or have sex underaged but I have hurt many friends from things I saw on tv. Yes I was stupid when I was little and emulated what I saw. So do most people when they're little kids.

I'm not sold on censorship however despite how my post may sound. Why? Well because of the people who would be censoring the stuff I watch/listen too. The people censoring most things in this country are highly religious christians. They have more problems with nudity than with violence, and because of that I won't support censorship. Anything dealing with graphic violence shouldn't be seen by anyone younger than 13-15 and the censors are too concerned that a nipple isn't seen on tv that they let those type of things slip under the rug until something bad happens.

So I'm for limiting the profanity but I'm not for censorship.

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE=Jake of Bodom]LMFAO!!! Oh my God, that's one of the funniest damn things I've ever heard. Obviously you know NOTHING about metal AT ALL. Devil insignia? No, there's only one sect of metal that truly gets into the whole Satan thing (Black metal), and that didn't appear until the early 90s. If metal "dressed up in all that devil insignia" in the first place, it would have happened in the 70s when metal came to life. Metal isn't about riling the religious groups - it's about the ******* music. If you happen to be one of those people who goes around saying that all metal is satanic without knowing a single thing about it, you need to go play a nice little game of hide and go **** yourself. There are tons and tons of Christian metal bands out there - Christian death metal, Christian power metal, Christian metalcore, Christian "white" metal (Black metal style metal with Christian lyrics). As for secular metal, lyrics range from slaying dragons to the expansion of emotional and mental awareness. You know nothing about metal, so don't talk like you do.

I do, however, see your point with the Ozzfest illustrations, but that's all they are: illustrations. They know nothing about a single band on the tour besides Black Sabbath (who they're target, who isn't Satanic in the slightest bit. Not at all. And it's not Ozzy that's taking the 'Fest to Utah, it's Sharon Osbourne. She runs the whole thing. And yes, she's probably asking for it, but that's just it: we all know they were gonna have a problem with it, but should that stop the rest of us from ejoying the 'Fest? It's hard to be a metalhead in Utah in the first place. This is censorship at one of it's worst.[/QUOTE]


Dude seriously, calm down a bit. No need to flame. :rolleyes:

I could have been more specific in saying that it is metal bands that use the devil insignia on their covers that are using such imagery to rile religious groups.

Thing is, I have nothing against it, I'm all for Ozzfest going to Utah... I may not like it, but I'm all for freedom of speech.

But they do use devils every single year, one poster in particular (2002) had a devil flying over the crowds and they were [i]worshipping it[/i]. True, not all bands are going to be gung-ho on the devil crap, some may even take a stand against it, but using Devils as their main mascot, year after year, isn't exactly showing the religous groups the "whiter side" of Metal.


[quote name='RiflesAtRecess'] This argument fits everything from gay marriage to "satanic" metal tours. If you don't like it, don't go. The Ozzfest has an obviously huge fanbase, so why would you want to stop them from coming to your state? Is it going to desecrate your land? No! Is it going to bring Satan to your door? Hell no! So why? Why can't you put on your Frank Sinatra (or whatever) and shut up and let the metal kids enjoy their show?[/quote]
I wouldn't use Frank Sinatra as an exemplary of what the moral types may listen to, after all, they guy had connections to organised crime. ;)

[Jake of Bodom]

It's not that [I]some[/I] bands aren't gung-ho on the devil crap, it's that [I]most[/I] bands aren't. And I wasn't flaming. It wasn't anger... I truly pitied the ignorance of that comment. And anyway, even if the Ozzfest was Satanic, people are allowed to worship Satan. It's a feedom of religion thing. Look, I'm a Christian, I go to church every Sunday and Bible study every wednesday. I also don't have a problem with Ozzfest's imagery, or the imagery [I]some[/I] metal bands use because half the time, it's for shock value. My point was that just because it conflicts with what [I]they[/I] believe doesn't mean [I]everyone[/I] is going to have a problem with it. I just wish they could see that their beliefs shouldn't get in the way of other people living and enjoying their lives. It isn't just happening with Ozzfest... for example, we don't have Lotto here because gambling is against their ethos. Again, nothing against them, but do they need to [I]outlaw[/I] it? All they have to do is not buy Lotto tickets!

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]Jake is very passionate about music, so sometimes his strong feelings can be mistaken for flaming. He's really just adamant about music and the points he makes concerning it. I'm just as passionate really, but I try to be nice best I can lol. Truth is, devils and signs of the sort are a big stereotype concerning metal. I recently got called a "devil worshipper" because I was wearing a Slayer shirt, not because I ran around screaming how much I loved Satan, merely because my shirt was black and I suppose I fit the stereotypical mold of "Slave to Satan," whatever that may be.

This angers me to no end. Bands that have nothing to do with Satan (I.E. most of them) are discriminated against merely because stupid people lack interest in what the band actually stands for. No, I don't worship Satan, but even if I did, that is my choice. I don't get angry at Christians who gather at concerts or shows to listen to Christian music, and this most definitely promotes the Christian faith, by the way. And if I believed all the stereotypes I'd heard, then Christian gatherings would seem to be nothing more then large orgys containing blind, bible thumping hippies. However, I don't think this way, and neither should you.

Also, as someone mentioned before, there is several Christian bands of metal orientation. In fact, some of my favorite bands are Christian bands, they have talent and although I'm not of the same religious background, I enjoy the music. Norma Jean, The Chariot, Underoath, Grey Lines of Perfections, Blessed Is He, all fantastic Christian bands. However, narrow-minded people close themselves off to a type of music contradictory to their own, or simply something different then the average tune they're use to. Well, this my friends, is a travesty. My advice, is to pull your head out of your *** and take a look at the world around you. Not the fake, fabricated world that you've developed over the years to make life seem more joyful and overwhelmingly happy.

Back to censorship. It's been made even more clear to me throughout the posts in this thread that censorship has indeed gone to far. None of us can form explanations to some of the words mentioned that've been censored. Some things just lack the thought of a normal human being and it's brought me to the conclusion the censorship is completely one-sided. And it's becoming more so each and every day. These people who endorse the covering up or changing of lyrics and curses win everytime. And those of us who enjoy the music the way it is are left with very few alternatives to enjoy the music and movies we've come to love. I agree censorship is needed to a certain extent, but the line has been crossed ladies and gentlemen. Our freedoms have been jeopardized, and I suggest you all take notice of it.[/SIZE]

[Goodbye, Face]

We live in the land of the insulted and the home of the lawsuit (at least a lot of us do, for those of you who don't, you get what I'm saying). Some of the stupidest people win the stupidest lawsuits. I heard about a lawsuit where a lady crashed her car due to thick fog (which is nature) and sued a nearby paper mill which had nothing to do with it... and won! So really, I can't see a solution coming anytime soon.

Then again, I can't stand music channels anyway, all they play is Green Day, Avril, Simple Plan, etc; and never dig down for any underground bands, no matter what genre. Fuse used to do this, but it seems like they've just become another MTV. So now if I like a music video, I just download it off their website or something like that, they tend to be uncensored anyway.

[Jake of Bodom]

[QUOTE]Jake is very passionate about music, so sometimes his strong feelings can be mistaken for flaming. He's really just adamant about music and the points he makes concerning it. I'm just as passionate really, but I try to be nice best I can lol. Truth is, devils and signs of the sort are a big stereotype concerning metal. I recently got called a "devil worshipper" because I was wearing a Slayer shirt, not because I ran around screaming how much I loved Satan, merely because my shirt was black and I suppose I fit the stereotypical mold of "Slave to Satan," whatever that may be.[/QUOTE]

:laugh: Thanks, Kamuro. Yeah, I'm not mad, I'm just really opinionated. Sorry guys.

[QUOTE]Fuse used to do this, but it seems like they've just become another MTV.[/QUOTE]

I disagree here. Dude, haven't you seen Metal Asylum? They play some serious metal! I've seen them play a Suffocation video, for God's sake! I can't think of a single other video channel that has the guts to play a video by Suffocation. Rockzilla and Slave to the Metal aren't bad either, but Rockzilla plays pretty much mainstream stuff though.

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Jake of Bodom']I disagree here. Dude, haven't you seen Metal Asylum? They play some serious metal! I've seen them play a Suffocation video, for God's sake! I can't think of a single other video channel that has the guts to play a video by Suffocation. Rockzilla and Slave to the Metal aren't bad either, but Rockzilla plays pretty much mainstream stuff though.[/quote]


I've only seen commercials for Metal Asylum. :animeswea I've seen As I Lay Dying and Norma Jean on MTV, while most of the metal I see on Fuse isn't my style. Most of the ones I've seen (I watch tv maybe an hour a day) are the "stereotype" bands.

[Jake of Bodom]

[quote name='RiflesAtRecess']I've only seen commercials for Metal Asylum. :animeswea I've seen As I Lay Dying and Norma Jean on MTV, while most of the metal I see on Fuse isn't my style. Most of the ones I've seen (I watch tv maybe an hour a day) are the "stereotype" bands.[/quote]

You've gotta see Metal Asylum. They play everything from Trivium to Manowar to Suffocation to Dimension Zero to Iron Maiden to... well, you get the picture. It's a great show.

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]I'm not blessed with the virtues of digital cable, so channels like "Fuse" are pretty much impossible for me to see. I'm left with VH1 and the stereotypical MTV which plays music about 1 out of the 24 hours in a day. And that one hour is full of music, that ironically, I don't like lol.[/SIZE]

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Kamuro][SIZE=1']I'm not blessed with the virtues of digital cable, so channels like "Fuse" are pretty much impossible for me to see. I'm left with VH1 and the stereotypical MTV which plays music about 1 out of the 24 hours in a day. And that one hour is full of music, that ironically, I don't like lol.[/SIZE][/quote]

That is horribly true. If you look at MTV's schedule on DTV or in the TV Guide, only one hour is dedicated to music videos. It's at like 6 in the morning, I forget.

Anyways, Jake, with your recommendation, I'll try to find it to watch it.

[Jake of Bodom]

You won't regret it! Although, knowing my luck, you'll the the worst possible episode and slap me.

Oh well. Stay heavy! \m/(>.<)\m/

[James]

[QUOTE=Jake of Bodom]The awesome part is, as I submit this post, the whole mother-*******, piece of ****, *****-faced thing will be automatically censored. Ah, the irony.

[/QUOTE]
[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]I think that this is a relevant issue, considering that I am personally against censorship (even though I run this site, which contains a language filter).

It's important to understand that originally, OtakuBoards catered to slightly younger users. Today, the majority of our members are between 15 and 20 years old. So things have changed in that sense.

I felt - as did Adam - that we wanted OtakuBoards to be a place of quality. Although I personally don't care about swearing, I do occasionally see people who are using swearing as every second word in their posts. And obviously that comes across as being, well, ignorant. But moreover, I can understand that there are people who simply don't want to be hit with constant swearing when they're browsing the site.

What's [i]most[/i] important is that here, we do not censor concepts. Look at our RPGs - why do we have a ratings system? We have that system so people can post a wide range of subjects. The ratings system ensures that people are forewarned about what an RPG may include. This, in turn, gives members the freedom to write about any subject.

The same is largely true of discussions. Although we don't rate discussions or anything - and although we expect people to be civil toward one another - we certainly don't censor opinion or concept. And that's very important, I think.

This relates back to the idea of censorship in film and music.

Of course, I am against censorship in any artistic medium. However, I think that there's a responsibility that comes with one's actions. If an album or a movie has explicit content or something like that, it doesn't hurt to have a rating to advise potential viewers/listeners. In that way, the art can remain pure, but people can choose to ignore it if they want to.

At the end of the day it definitely comes down to choice. Just as you can choose not to go near M-rated RPGs at OtakuBoards, you can also choose not to go near explicit music or films. But those films/music/RPGs still have the right to exist so that people [i]can[/i] choose to view/listen to them if they want.

As far as the Satanic thing goes, I think it's easy to misinterpret that much of the time. I don't think anyone is really saying that they advocate things like murder or whatever - Satan is just a symbol of rebellion and opposition to the status quo (the status quo being God, presumably). Of course, I can't - and wouldn't want to - speak for bands in general who use that symbol. But generally speaking, I am not so sure that Satan is always used to "rile up the religious".

Of course, the religious - but most particularly the more extreme religious - probably [i]should[/i] be challenged. Who wants to live in a society with only one viewpoint, afterall? I think it's worthwhile to challenge the status quo and traditional beliefs now and then. Without that, many changes in society would never have taken place. It's important to reflect on these things now and again.[/color][/font]

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]I was waiting for you to post James, and I'm glad you have. You always seem to offer a different perspective on these things and it's definitely needed concerning important points such as this. The relation to this forum is one I probably should've thought of before. As you said, some words are censored and rightly so, but the content and real art of the forum is left open to be veiwed by any who choose to do so. This is how I wish for our society to be. As I mentioned before, censorship is warranted in some areas, but even after posting warnings and showing age appropriate logos music and movies are still censored.

As far as religion, God is our only veiwpoint as of now, in my opinion. Yes there are several different religions, but the majority of them all go back to God and although they won't admit, a lot of them are incredibly similar. No, I don't worship Satan, but I don't believe in God either, and I've learned not to tell people this lol. I have before, friends, or those who've asked, and they treat me differently knowing that have different beliefs. Which is discrimination just the same, whether race or creed or whatever the subject may be, it's all discrimination. I believe that it's my choice and although I live my life without regret, I can't help but wonder if I'm wrong and they're right. But I do know I shouldn't have to question myself because they're uncomfortable with who I am.[/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]If OtakuBoards were different - if we were attracting people via different subjects (if we were a general film site rather than an anime-centric site), it's quite possible that we'd have no language filter at all.

But I feel that we do have some responsibility, especially to parents, to ensure that we're maintaining some kind of general standard in terms of quality. However, as has been said, I have no desire to censor people's artwork or concepts. As long as appropriate warnings are given, I generally won't care what people post here in terms of creative works. Censoring artwork or creative writing at OtakuBoards would contradict the idea of having creative forums in the first place, I think.

Again, though...OtakuBoards is just one of many choices. There are many places on the Internet that are far more flexible and open and there are many places that are far more closed and restricted. As long as we maintain a good balance, I think we'll be attractive to a broad range of people. But I think that's true of most community-based sites anyway.[/color][/font]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Kamuro][SIZE=1]I was waiting for you to post James, and I'm glad you have. You always seem to offer a different perspective on these things and it's definitely needed concerning important points such as this. The relation to this forum is one I probably should've thought of before. As you said, some words are censored and rightly so, but the content and real art of the forum is left open to be veiwed by any who choose to do so. This is how I wish for our society to be. As I mentioned before, censorship is warranted in some areas, but even after posting warnings and showing age appropriate logos music and movies are still censored.

As far as religion, God is our only veiwpoint as of now, in my opinion. Yes there are several different religions, but the majority of them all go back to God and although they won't admit, a lot of them are incredibly similar. No, I don't worship Satan, but I don't believe in God either, and I've learned not to tell people this lol. I have before, friends, or those who've asked, and they treat me differently knowing that have different beliefs. Which is discrimination just the same, whether race or creed or whatever the subject may be, it's all discrimination. I believe that it's my choice and although I live my life without regret, I can't help but wonder if I'm wrong and they're right. But I do know I shouldn't have to question myself because they're uncomfortable with who I am.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]This is what it's all about, and this is how it should be. The 'offensive' words are censored, but the message remains discernable and retains its original message.

But as for the view of God being our only viewpoint, I believe you're completely wrong. If you just turn on the radio, most - if not all of the songs are not about God. I think that any prejudice recieved is not because God is the viewpoint of society, but because of misinformation of the public.[/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think it's a question of God being the only viewpoint, it's simply that partly because of this, people immediately condemn any symbol that is contrary. In some cases, the use of such symbolism is designed to be a particular commentary...so it's not always just there as a hollow symbol.

However, I do think that most of the time, it's probably used in a rebellious context. And in western society, which is primarily Christian, Satan represents rebellion against the status quo.[/color][/font]

[Kamuro]

[QUOTE=James][color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think it's a question of God being the only viewpoint, it's simply that partly because of this, people immediately condemn any symbol that is contrary. In some cases, the use of such symbolism is designed to be a particular commentary...so it's not always just there as a hollow symbol.

However, I do think that most of the time, it's probably used in a rebellious context. And in western society, which is primarily Christian, Satan represents rebellion against the status quo.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]Maybe my veiws are a bit jaded. I suppose they are and I would apologize for it however it's something I just can't help. I don't believe that other ideas are necessarily "censored" for lack of a better word, but shunned. Ideas contradictory to that of what we like to call "normal" are often placed aside, and those in support of something different are ridiculed for being just that, different. Whether it's religion, music, whatever you may be interested in, it's all relative. Theres so many things preventing us from expressing ourselves and ultimately being who we are already, do we really need our art, thoughts, even intimate feelings to be censored merely because someone deems them unfit for the eyes of those they long to control? Labels clutter everyone and everything making it hard to even develop a sense of individuality without feeling like an outcast, and now the only outlet we've been left with is shrinking and the freedom people die fighting for is losing it's value with each passing day. It's hard not to be adamant about and it's hard to understand really.[/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]There's nothing to apologize for. You are agreeing entirely with what I just said, lol.[/font][/color]

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]lol for the most part, but it wasn't directed to anyone in particular, just anyone who my comments might have offended, better safe then sorry I suppose[/SIZE]