Elegant Gothic Lolita

[Panache]

[QUOTE]Almost everyone I know hears the word Lolita and they don't think oh its that newer fashion, they think, oh... porn.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Regardless of the general opinion of the people actually participating in the fashion the general population is going to assume it has sexual connotations simply because that is their previous experience with the word. So expecting anyone to presume that it has nothing nothing to do with sex at all is extremely unreasonable in my opinion.

Oh yea and I am not much of a fan of little girls or women who try to look like little girls in my porn...So that is why I am not a fan of Gothic Lolita style in porn. Yes.

[Sabrina]

[FONT="Tahoma"][quote name='Panache']So expecting anyone to presume that it has nothing nothing to do with sex at all is extremely unreasonable in my opinion.[/QUOTE]I agree. Because what Crystia said is true. It never crossed my mind that it meant anything else or that the style of clothing wasn't meant for that purpose. Because of the association I have to the meaning of the word Lolita on account of the book Crystia mentioned, as well as movies made on it.

I mean realistically, what do people expect? It has a very strong meaning and until someone literally said no, it's more than that, I never gave it another thought. Also, Wiki is far from being a reliable source. I say this as a college student mind you, since most of my instructors make it clear that students caught using that as their main reference for papers will be flunked, period. So I always take what's posted there with a grain of salt instead of taking it as actual fact.[/FONT]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]In the website's defense, Wikipedia is by no means a [I]bad[/I] source. If you bother to do the research, you'll likely find out that very little of the articles there are actually wrong.

But no, it should not be used as a main source or key reference point to one's argument. I prefer to think of it as a starting point, to give you some idea of what you're looking for beyond keywords specific to your topic.

Since I've been at college, I've touched Wiki during almost every paper I've written. However, I have never even included it in a bibliography, let alone cite it. It may (and it usually does) give you reliable information, but it's not a hard, established source, nor is it as thorough as a reference should be.[/FONT]

[Roxie Faye]

[quote name='indifference'][COLOR="Indigo"]You've missed my point it seems. You can't go and have a style of fashion as it were and expect people to not associate it with the fact that the name "Lolita" has entered pop culture to describe a sexually precocious young girl. For half a century that term has come to mean just that. So anyone who thinks they can just say[I] oh it's not about that at all...[/I] is forgetting that no matter what they say, others will see it in that light. Especially since there are just as many sites where one can buy clothing in that style that[I] is [/I]for pornographic usage. Something that naturally I will not link to here on account of the content.

The point is that the meaning for Lolita came about [I]before[/I] the attempt to turn it into a more legitimate style of fashion. And that's an association that isn't going to just go away by hearing others claims or reading sites like wiki on it. Almost everyone I know hears the word Lolita and they don't think [I]oh its that newer fashion[/I], they think, oh... [I] porn[/I]. It's going to take more than a few decades for that association to change if it does at all.

After all... choice of words and associations to said words is important, so you have to wonder what the person who started it was thinking when they chose to use the name Lolita. I see the association as a self inflicted problem really.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[color=#9933ff]The Gothic Lolita community, especially in the west, doesn't "forget" that people view the term "Lolita" with a sexual connotation. By saying "Oh, look, that's not what we're intending with this fashion," we [b]are[/b] recognizing the first, Nabokovian definition and saying it doesn't apply here. We didn't forget, we're just saying in this particular Japanese fashion context, the Nabokovian Lolita intent is not present.

And I think the entire darn community sees it as a self inflicted problem, lol. Of course, as a westerner partaking in the fashion, I just grumble at the Japanese for their silly labeling and call it "frilly-chan" if I can.[/color]

[quote name='Allamorph'][FONT=Arial]In wardrobe stuff like this, you have to be able to think from both your angle and the mind of anyone who might see it, so you don't accidentally draw . . . unwanted attentions.[/FONT][/QUOTE][color=#9933ff]Agreed! It happens, and I know some girls who do get that negative attention. It happened to me once, with a girl who is a b**** anyway, who was drunk at the time and made all these nasty comments to me about being a slut. And before anyone tells me "It's my own fault for wearing it, suck it up and shut up," I'm well aware of my own choices and the consequences, thank you. I'm just adding my two cents, thanks. lol. It happens, I deal with it, I move on. ^_^;[/color]

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]When I read the name 'Lolita' I think of the objectification of young women, and a loss of innocence... but when Japanese people see the name they probably think it sounds 'kawaii' and put it on their backpacks. That's the Japanese for you.[/size][/quote]
[color=#9933ff]Shy, I love you for that.[/color]

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]The Gothic Lolita thing seems to be a fashion movement that has (to say the least) some strong hints of fetish in it. I'm not saying that the clothes themselves are innapropriate, but all fashion needs to be viewed in a cultural context, as opposed to a vacuum. One of my best friends used to pin a 'cat tail' to her pants to be playful, but when she posted pics of herself with the tail online she suddenly received a lot of unwanted advances from 'furries.'

Needless to say, she still loves cats, but was quick to take those photos down.

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE][color=#9933ff]You know, I've never thought of it that way, and I've never really thought of Japanese culture as having persistent sexual undertones, but now that I think about it, that's definitely true. Quite agreed.[/color]