New Language?! GAH!

[Citrus]

[SIZE=1]Ok you might have hinted what this thread is about by the title. Recently I was watching T.V and there was a special on people learning the Korean language. As I sat there and watched people struggle learning a new language I asked my self, "Why?" Why is it so hard to learn a new language?

As most of you know I was born in Tokyo, Japan and lived there for three years. By then I knew a tad bit of Japanese, as most of you did with English. Then we moved to Singapore, Singapore for a while before moving to Toronto. I had to learn English in Singapore, it was mandatory at the schools. As well as Chinese.

It was very hard to learn English, maybe because I was little? But then again there are older people who struggle learning new languages. I just want to know what your answer is. Why is learning a new language hard?[/SIZE]

[Ezekiel]

[SIZE=1]I find it funny that you think that learning a new language should be easy for everyone, because it most certainly is not and people aren't stupid if they can't pick up languages.

English is one of the hardest languages to learn, because of all the rules, similar spellings, use of homonyms etc. I think Finnish is one of the hardest, though...I forget why but it has a shat load of language rules that need to be followed.

Then Japanese has the huge amount of Kanji, which is hard to get your head around if you weren't born there.

Am I getting my point across?

I lived in Thailand for two years when I was three, went to school and learnt Thai and English. It was hard, I couldn't speak Thai, of course I couldn't because learning a new language that you don't speak at home usually is[I] hard[/I].

Stop acting so haughty by saying that it shouldn't be hard and go out and teach yourself Dutch or something.

[B]Edit:[/B] I re-read what you said and only because of what you've said to me on AIM can I see that you are saying you find it difficult too. You must understand that online, wording in posts is very important as people can misunderstand your feelings on things. As your first post stands, it still seems that you are saying "I found learning English difficult because I was little, why do other people find it so hard?"[/SIZE]

[Citrus]

[SIZE=1][QUOTE]I find it funny that you think that learning a new language should be easy for everyone, because it most certainly is not and people aren't stupid if they can't pick up languages.[/QUOTE]

Uh... I didn't say you were stupid if you can't pick up a language.... I was just wondering why it is so hard to learn a new language...

[QUOTE]Stop acting so haughty by saying that it shouldn't be hard and go out and teach yourself Dutch or something.[/QUOTE]

You got me totally wrong Imi. Did I not say it was hard for me to learn English? Please read what I said over and edit your post. Thanks. [/SIZE]

[Sapphire Flare]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Really? I heard that greek was one of the hardest languages, that's why the 5 other romantic languages didn't use it but instead based their alphabet on it. something like...that... Oh I don't know -.-. I know Korean, English, and I'm taking french in school and I think it's really hard to learn a new language.

Or maybe that's just because my damn french teacher was such a b*itch. Sorry about the language, I hate her with a passion. :animeswea

P.S. Good thing we got her fired![/COLOR]

[Chaos]

Learning a new language for more than ninty percent of the population will be difficult, just for the sheer fact that it's a change of pace. Think about it, what comes with a new language? New letters, new words, new sounds, different articulation, different language rules. Not only that, but the first language that we learn is usually very deeply impressed into our minds. Think about if you've ever seen, say, a native-born Chinese person get mad or excited when they talk. More than likely they either rattled off or had certain words or phrases in Chinese because that's what he or she knew best.

It's not a matter of it being hard to learn a new language, it's a matter of our brains resisting change. It's something foriegn you're trying to jam into your brain stem and you automatically want to compare it to your native tongue. It's just the habit you gain through instinct, through subconscious wiring.

[On a side note, Spanish and German are incredibly easy. Teehee.]

[Sara]

[font=trebucht ms]There's actually quite a bit of interesting stuff about why it's so difficult to learn a non-native language. (Not necessarily a second language, since many people grow up bi-or multi-lingual, but a language other than one you learned to speak when you were young.)

The generally accepted theory is that anything (language) you learn after a certain age will be difficult--why children can pick up a new language more easily than their parents. I forget the term for it, although I should know. Oh well. //

There's also a difference between "learning" and "acquiring" a language. Think about it. You learned your first language without really [i]trying[/i]--you picked up and processed information from the speech of those around you. You definitely didn't need flashcards when you were beginning to talk.

As for myself, I speak English. I took German for four years in High School, and will be starting my fourth and fifth Uni classes in it this fall. I'm also taking intro Hindi and Swedish classes.

German is pretty easy for an English-speaker to get his mind around, because the structure is similar/simpler, and there are a buttload of cognates (words that are similar in multiple languages.) For example, [i]der Hund[/i] means [i]the dog.[/i] [i]Hound[/i] is another English word for Dog. [i]Die Katze[/i] is [i]the cat[/i], etc.

At this point, I'm pretty confident with my ability to speak/write/read/understand. I know the grammar rules and all the (annoying) adjective endings. The only thing that gets me is the vocabulary--my German vocab is very (relatively) limited. I'm always at a loss, missing the crucial word to say what I want to say. It's frustrating.

Finnish, I'm told, is a *****. It has many case forms (more than I want to think about). But I'm not really the expert on Finnish around here. If your interested, I'm sure you could harass Minako or Sage. :)[/font]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Weirdo']The generally accepted theory is that anything (language) you learn after a certain age will be difficult--why children can pick up a new language more easily than their parents. I forget the term for it, although I should know. Oh well. //[/quote][COLOR=blue]Was the term "plasticity?" I'm curious because I didn't know they actually had a word for it, haha.

Everyone has different temperaments, and some people are able to pickup new languages quicker than others. However, the first language you [B]learn[/B] (NOT acquire (thanks Sara)) is always the hardest. For whatever reason, the second and third languages are quicker to pickup. On the other hand, I've never heard someone learning - say - Spanish and then learning Japanese quicker. So, that rule of thumb might just apply to learning a Romantic language followed by another Romantic one. Also, if you learn a new language when you are younger, learning other languages is easier when you are older.

I've "mastered" Latin, but like Sara, I lack a good vocabulary for my mastery to be noticed. I can read sentences and know what everything is rerferring to or what part of the sentence it is acting for (no matter how complicated), but it's useless without a good vocabulary.[/COLOR]

[Sui Generis]

[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR=Indigo]What Lore said was very true..

If you study psychology you will eventually study the maturing process of infants as well as younger kids. In this time of life many psychologists have adapted a critical time period. This period is basically defined as the time to teach children a certain language. According to many of the studies done children that are around this critical period are able to adapt to the changes in different languages much more easily than say you or I would.

Also there is another thought. It is believed that when you are first born you are born with every sound any language possesses. Thats why babies will make so many funny noises. They're grouping together sounds, but as they develope a fluency in one language the brain will push out the extra information and sounds. This theory is meant to explain why it is/would be so difficult for an average american to just look at Japanese writing and speak it as fluently as a native japanese. (Assuming the language rules were understood.)

Certainly learning or aquiring a new language is difficult for many reasons, but one relatively easy concept to grasp is the fact that it is something new. Anything new is difficult to some degree. It is true each person learns certain things more easily, and thats the same with languages. I know some people who can learn a language with ease, but struggle so much with math and its concept.

I guess in the end you could just bring it down to genetics and the structure of your brain, but thats kind've confusing for the likes of my 17 year old self :)[/font][/color]

[Godelsensei]

Perhaps it's just a result of my obsession with grammar, but I have never found languages that daunting. I think through what I'm saying in English a lot and see it in a way that would probably seem bizarre to a lot of people, but it helps with my French.
That said, I think a lot of the trouble people have with learning new languages stems from not thinking about how their own works. When I speak English, I'm unconscious of the grammar rules I am executing at that second, but I reflect on them pretty often. If you are learning French as a second language, having been brought up speaking English, you can simply exchange English words for French ones, without changing their order noticeably, in a lot of cases:

[i]J'ai mis le livre sur le table.[/i]

[i]I have put the book on the table.[/i]

Same number of words, in the same order--they were simply exchanged for their English equivalents.
A lot of people don't consider this sort of thing, for whatever reason.

When learning an Asian language after speaking an Romantic one, you, obviously, can't apply this rule. However, having sporadically flirted with Japanese, I've learned to think of it in a very systematic way. It doesn't really flow like French or English do. It's more like a math equation to me, though it may seem strange.
Consider Skip's custom title:

[i]Anata wa soko ni imasu ka?[/i]

[i]Are you there?[/i]

The Japanese version is full of particles that seem pretty arbitrary to me, as an Anglophone. I can't really think of it in the same way as I could, [i]"Est-ce que tu y es?"[/i]
That said, I have found Japanese to be a much more straightforward language than most romantic ones. (This could be a product of inexperience, I guess, but I think I've worked at it enough to develop a legitimate point of view.) It's less dynamic than French, in a lot of respects, at least to me.

Regardless, languages are fun. Also, being able to order dinner in Montréal without being sneered at is nice.

[Semjaza]

Most American grade schools do not offer other languages. It becomes pretty much expected in High School, though. I think starting off so early in your life learning other languages puts you in a much different situation than someone who is suddenly learning Spanish at age 13 and only bothers to do so a few times a week for four years. You're not going to get very far with it. From what I've read, it's easier to pick up new languages as a child.

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Generic NPC #3']Most American grade schools do not offer other languages.[/quote]

Really? And all this time I went thinking you guys were forced to learn Spanish from the age of eight. : /

In Canada, French is mandatory. You usually start learning it in grade three, though I learned some in kindergarten.
It's interesting to hear from one's parents how the curriculum has advanced. My mom tells me the stuff I'm learning now is beyond what she ever did in high school.
Who knows? Maybe our school system will actually start producing bilingual people some day. -_-;;

It's pretty important for kids to at least become used to the idea of learning new languages. After tacking one, after all, you know how to handle a third or fourth. It's such an important thing to be multi-lingual these days, what with globalization and all.
Also, depending on what language you learn, it can broaden your understanding of your own tongue.

So I'm pretty surprised.

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='Godelsensei']Really? And all this time I went thinking you guys were forced to learn Spanish from the age of eight. : / [/quote]

[SIZE=1][COLOR="#CC3366"][b]Um actually, I started learning Spanish at kindergarden. In school that is. Suprise? I grew up in a very bilingual family, since my mother and my gradmother both speak Hungarian. Yet they never taught me it, and I wish they did when I was younger. My mom thought it wouldn't be "necessary", argh. Anyways, yes I took spanish when I was a kid, I use to be able to sing and read in spanish and understand it. I learned spanish until my senior year, and let me tell you this, what did I learn? Nothing. I only remember the basics. I'm practically 18 years old and I still don't know this darn language from when I was a kid.

It's with this knowledge that I think if your really into a language (say japanese) and you put your mind to it, its a whole lot easier. Personally, I hate spanish, no matter how easy it is, and I want to learn it, but if your not consistantly using the language. You will infact forget everything. You need to have a constant use of the language in order for it to sink in, If I had someone speak to me in spanish daily as a child, and I mean throughly, I might as well know spanish by now. Yup it sucks, but after 17 years of spanish I think I've had enough. I might just try out Japanese for the fun of it. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Godelsensei']...having sporadically flirted with Japanese, I've learned to think of it in a very systematic way. It doesn't really flow like French or English do. It's more like a math equation to me, though it may seem strange...[/quote] [color=DarkGreen][font=Trebuchet MS]I think I know what you mean. And while, like a lot of people here, vocabulary is currently my weak point, I'm finding Japanese surprisingly easy to learn after being warned by all and sundry that it would be a cast-iron b*tch to grasp.

So much of Japanese grammar is based on context, which means that they don't need different conjugations of verbs; the verb to be is [i]desu [/i]whether it's "I am", "You are" or "They are". It doesn't change ending or anything, and that was what I found hard about learning Latin, German and French. The hardest part of learning Japanese is getting your head around reading in a different alphabet (or rather, three different alphabets). And I don't seriously think I'll be able to pick up a lot of kanji without actually going and living in Japan.
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[Dagger]

[QUOTE=Blackjack][color=DarkGreen][font=Trebuchet MS]I think I know what you mean. And while, like a lot of people here, vocabulary is currently my weak point, I'm finding Japanese surprisingly easy to learn after being warned by all and sundry that it would be a cast-iron b*tch to grasp.

So much of Japanese grammar is based on context, which means that they don't need different conjugations of verbs; the verb to be is [i]desu [/i]whether it's "I am", "You are" or "They are". It doesn't change ending or anything, and that was what I found hard about learning Latin, German and French. The hardest part of learning Japanese is getting your head around reading in a different alphabet (or rather, three different alphabets). And I don't seriously think I'll be able to pick up a lot of kanji without actually going and living in Japan.[/font][/color][/QUOTE]
When people say that Japanese is difficult to learn, they're almost certainly referring to kanji, haha. As you implied, Japanese grammar is really quite clear-cut, and you can start communicating in a broken sort of way even with a minimal vocabulary and a fairly elementary knowledge of common sentence structures. It won't sound that nice, but people will probably be able to figure out what you mean. Even hiragana and katakana are fairly easy to pick up. But kanji... ugh.

If you can get your hands on some Japanese kanji textbooks for children, that can be immensely helpful. I often feel as though I forget an old kanji everytime I learn a new one, but at least that way you'll have a lot of them at your fingertips. The more you memorize, the more intuitive the stroke orders become.

[quote=Godelsensei]Consider Skip's custom title:

Anata wa soko ni imasu ka?

Are you there?[/quote]
Off-topic: That's Fafner's tagline, haha. Parodies of the show often substitute in the English phrase "Can you hear me now?" Given the context, it's rather hilarious... but I'll quit while I'm ahead. Or slightly behind, as the case may be. :animeswea

~Dagger~

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]I've always been naturally good at English (and naturally bad at math), so language has always been something that hasn't required a great deal of effort from me.

However, it does depend on the language. In primary school (elementary school), I learned Japanese for two years. In my state, it is compulsory to learn Japanese as a second language in most primary schools - a few schools do teach alternatives (like Greek or Italian), but generally I think Japanese is predominant.

The problem I had wasn't with the language, but the way it was taught. We had a Japanese teacher who spoke fairly broken English (her name was Mrs. Toyama from what I remember) and her actual teaching methods were good. But, probably due to our age, we spent little time learning the core language...and more time making paper hats. We learned a lot about the cultural and artistic aspects of Japan and our focus on language was not as high as you'd imagine.

When I reached high school, it was very different. I did half a year of French and Indonesian. Later on (for the next three and a half years), I took Indonesian ([i]Bahasa Indonesia[/i]).

The key difference is that things moved at a faster pace. We were expected to know significant things week on week. So in the first week, we had to know how to count to fifty or one hundred. In the second, we had to know how to introduce ourselves and ask "how are you?", with the varying responses to that. And so on.

Indonesian was relatively easy to pick up because it uses the English alphabet, with one key difference. In Indonesian, there's no "ch". Instead, "c" makes a "ch" sound. To make a "c" sound, you use "k". So "computer" is literally "komputer" in Indonesian.

Due to English influence, there are many common words. I guess it's like German in that sense, based on what Sara said above.

The major difference isn't so much to do with alphabet or words, but to do with grammar. That's always the toughest part. Indonesian's grammar isn't nearly as complex as English (though I'd argue no language has such complex grammar with so many exceptions to the rules), but nevertheless, it's like learning to talk backwards...because the grammar is often so contrary to what you learn in English.

With Indonesian, a simple example would be subject and object in a sentence. You'll never say "I'm going to the cinema with a friend." Instead, you'll say "My friend is accompanying me to the cinema." So, you never make yourself the subject of a sentence. That's just one example.

I found Indonesian easy to pick up, but...once I stopped learning it, I began losing it immediately. Now I barely remember much of what I learned, other than a few rules and phrases. I know how to count up to any number pretty much, I can remember certain words/phrases (lucu is "cute", pengatahuan is "science", bioskop is "cinema")...but because I don't use it regularly in speech, I just lose it.

So I think the key is using a language frequently. Not only practicing with yourself, but also conversing with others as much as you can (even if it's limited). This continually reinforces it in your mind. Now that I have no use for Indonesian, I can barely remember it. But if I went to Indonesia and had to use it, I'd probably start remembering everything pretty quickly.[/color][/font]

[Fall]

It works for you if you use it everyday for everything. I use English for everything and wouldn't know a single word of any other language, and even if I did, I wouldn't know.

Being born in an English-speaking country means I grew up in an English-speaking family. Growing up and learning new things is what you do alot of when you're young.

Basically, what I'm saying, is growing up and being brought up in a family or with whoever, means you take in [i]everything[/i] they do and take in how to do [i]everything[/i]. That means you learn [i]everything [/i]they do. The language they speak is what you learn.

That's the best way I can describe it, anyway. It's what I think.

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]I skimmed over the previous posts, so forgive if I repeat stuff.

From what I hear, it's harder to pick up an Eastern Language (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc) if your mother tounge is a Western Language (Italian, English, German, etc), and vice versa. I believe this is because of the structuring of the sentences, and the different ways of expressing an 'alphabe.'

I'm learning Spanish, but it's kind of difficult. Just memorizing all the different tenses/moods is what gets me. Aside from that, I could buy something, order food, ask a question, or talk to someone for a short period of time. From what I hear, you have to study abroad in order to really soak up a language and become fluent. One of my friends studied Spanish abroad for three years and became fluent, and then moved to Italy and became fluent in Italian as well. Trilingual. Luucky (Napoleon Dynamite-esque)![/SIZE]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]*grins* Godel & Tony's posts on page one reminded me of the greatest joke I've ever heard, insulting americans (Well, you ask them in separate questions but the joke goes like this: people who speak many, 3, and 2 languages are multi, tri, and bi-lingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? American). And I was also surprised to learn how mandatory other languages are in other countries like Canada and Australia. In my opinion, I wish they'd do the same in American schools, but I suppose that's a whole different thread entirely.

In some respects, I agree that languages close to your native tongue are easier to pick up (i.e.: for an English speaker, German is probably easier to pick up than Chinese). Of course, my friend says that Japanese is so much easier to learn than German, because you can use romaji when you start, and just phonetically read the words; in German, because they use an alphabet similar to English, you have to know how all the letters sound when you pronounce them which is harder. I nearly fell over when I learned that wieß kreuz is supposed to be "vais kryoits."

From what I've heard (i'm not an expert so don't bash my head in), Uralic (including Finnish) languages are the most difficult to learn. Other than that, to me, it seems all languages have their problems; Romatic languages have similar sentence structure, and sometimes words, as English. And eastern languages have fairly simple syntax but crazy written language and sometimes very hard to master tones (Chinese is tonal, so is Thai. Japanese is...not, for some reason).

To answer the original question, as you get older, it becomes more and more difficult to learn something new. When you're a child, your brain is developing, accepting new information, retaining it, etc., so new languages are easier to pick up on. When you're older, it's harder to learn new things, especially a language, because your brain is mostly developed. In my school district, that's why they're offering Spanish and French in third grade - it's easier to learn earlier.

I was reading something about languages, online, the other day, and it was quite interesting; All languages/ language families might have the same origin. Obviously all romance languages have their origins in Latin, but many proto-language families in Africa, Europe, Asia, Oceania, and the Americas have similar words for one and two (tik and pal). [url=http://www.exploratorium.edu/exploring/language/index.html]This[/url] is the complete article that I read in about an hour. It's quite interesting.[/color]

[Sara]

[quote name='Sui Generis][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][COLOR=Indigo]Also there is another thought. It is believed that when you are first born you are born with every sound any language possesses. Thats why babies will make so many funny noises. They're grouping together sounds, but as they develope a fluency in one language the brain will push out the extra information and sounds. This theory is meant to explain why it is/would be so difficult for an average american to just look at Japanese writing and speak it as fluently as a native japanese. (Assuming the language rules were understood.)[/font'][/color][/quote]Interesting addition to that: While I think it's nonsense that we somehow lose the ability to make certain sounds as we grow older (the ability is still there--I am convinced that some day I will be able to trill my damned r's again), it [i]is[/i] interesting what sounds people do and do not distinguish.

What we [i]think[/i] we say is largely influenced by spelling: Say "tomato." Now whether you say to-MAY-to or to-MAH-to, listen to the second 't' that you're saying. Is it really a t?

For most native English speakers, it isn't. It's actually closer to a 'd.' (I think it's actually a 'tap' or a 'flap,' but the exact nature of the sound escapes me at the moment.) When you have a 't' between two voiced vowels, it gets closer and closer to a 'd.' (A 'd' is just a voiced 't,' much like a 'b' is a voiced 'p,' a 'g' is a voiced 'k,' etc.)

As another example, I'm looking at some Hindi stuff before school starts in the fall. Hindi differentiates between aspirated and unaspirated consonants. What does that mean? Well, it means that 'kh' is different from 'k.' (The 'h' represents a release of air.) The words "Khat" and "Kat" (assuming that they are words, I haven't the slightest) would mean completely different things.

For an example of aspiration, say 'pot.' Now, say 'spot.' There's a difference in how much air you release ('pot' is aspirated, 'spot' is not.) (If you can't tell the difference, it helps to hold a strip of paper in front of your mouth--it will move more on the aspirated sound.)

For people learning a new language, grasping the actual [i]sounds[/i] is important. I know people who have been in German who still can't get the thick "kh" sound in Bach--they just don't realise that it's a different sound than what they're used to. My linguistics classes have helped a lot with my grasp of languages, simply because I can put symbols to sounds that we don't use in English. (The 'kh' of Bach is represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet as [x])

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS]Some of that stuff about forgetting how to make ertain sounds can be observed when the Japanese speak English. Because the Japanese language is made up of syllables, consonants with attached vowels like 'su' and 'ka', Japanese people seem to find it really hard to pronounce words with more than one consonant next to one another. So the word 'stint' (don't ask why that one popped into my head first...) becomes 'sutinutsu' or something else that sounds equally ridiculous to our English-speaking ears. Because Japanese has so few consonant clusters, they get out of practice at sounding them.[/font]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]My first language was Arabic. I lived in Saudi till I finished grade 1 and then came to Canada. It's unfortunate that I left Saudi at such an early age. I can't read well in Arabic, I'm not good in grammar and I'm low on vocabulary. What's more is that arabs normally speak in slang, and nearly half the vocabulary is different in slang. Even the grammar is different. So I barely have any idea what books, newspapers, or the news means, because all those use proper Arabic.

I picked up English pretty quickly. My Grammar and vocabulary was bad at first, but by the time I was nine, I was speaking like everyone else in my class. Man I loved ESL class!

It's nice being able to speak arabic and english, to be able to use both their pronounciations. It's helped me alot with learning other languages and getting their accents right. Arabic has a quite a few sounds that some of you have never heard of. I thought I'd put up some sound files:

Arabic has two h sounds, one of them sounding more like a snake's hissing. It makes use of the back of your throat more: [URL=http://xthost.info/chabichou/ha.wav]click here to listen[/URL]

The ever so famous German kh sound. I suggest actually trying to say k and h at the same time to get this sound: [URL=http://xthost.info/chabichou/kha.wav]click here to listen[/URL]

Okay the next one is weird. It sounds a bit more like a vowel than the other letters, so it's transliterated as vowel with an accent. Alot of arabic names that you might think begin with a vowel actually begin with this letter, such as the popular name Omar. I guess this letter sounds like someone gagging on their saliva or something of the sort: [URL=http://xthost.info/chabichou/aa.wav]click here to listen[/URL]

This letter sounds like the french r. It's similar to the kh sound, but instead it's gh. Try saying g and h at the same time to make this sound: [URL=http://xthost.info/chabichou/gha.wav]click here to listen[/URL]

The closest sound to this letter is k or q, but this letter is much more throaty. Try to make a k sound, but move the back of your tongue further back. It should actually block your air passageway as you make the sound. Wait, k does that too. Okay okay, make the back of your tongue touch that dangly thingy (what's it called again?) at the back of your mouth. [URL=http://xthost.info/chabichou/qa.wav]click here to listen[/URL]

[QUOTE]Also there is another thought. It is believed that when you are first born you are born with every sound any language possesses. Thats why babies will make so many funny noises. They're grouping together sounds, but as they develope a fluency in one language the brain will push out the extra information and sounds.[/QUOTE]Damn straight. As I have demonstrated, there are many additional sounds that can be made with your throat, and the back of your tongue has it's uses aswell.
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[Darker Alucard]

It's hard to learn a new language, because the gramtical rules are different and you knew your language since you started talking.

[elfpirate]

[font=Comic Sans MS][b]It is true that as the brain begins to mature (usually around the age of twelve), it changes a bit, making it more difficult to assimilate new languages and speech sounds.

Generally speaking (and, of course, there are exceptions), if you have never used a certain speech sound, such as the trilled "r" in Spanish, or the gutteral "r" in French, it will be extremely difficult to learn it once you've reached the age in which your speech learning capacity changes.

*wishing I had my Psychology books unpacked to look up the terminology for it*

Also-- in certain parts of the US, second laguages [i]are[/i] mandatory. When I lived in El Paso/Juarez (Mexican border), Spanish was mandatory, so I took nearly 6 years of it, beginning in kindergarten. I'm sure it continues into high school there, as well, but I moved to a state that didn't offer Spanish in the public schools.:animeangr

It wasn't until uni that I was able to take foreign languages again, but since I had studied on my own in the meantime, it wasn't as difficult for me as it was for most of my classmates, who had never learned the speech sounds in childhood.
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[Lady Asphyxia]

[quote name='Lore][font=trebucht ms'] I know the grammar rules and all the (annoying) adjective endings. [/font][/quote]

[size=2][font=arial narrow]Oh, I know! Tell me, Sara, is the sentence Akkusative, Nominative or Dative? Is there motion in the sentence?

I've been learning German for several years now, myself, but my problem is not [i]really[/i] vocab at the moment. We've just covered the environment, which is such a specialised area it's really easy to pick up vocab about [i]Verschmutzung[/i] (Pollution) and Conservation.

My problem is grammar. I spent the entire time until now learning German with a teacher who didn't teach us any grammar. It wasn't until February this year that I learned what [i]Modal Verbs[/i] are! I'm still struggling with adjectival endings. :rolleyes:

German is really structured and it's very rare that the sentences will deviate from the norm, which is fantastic. The hard thing about German [i]is[/i] the cognates. For the nouns, it's fine. It's when I get to the verbs that it worries me. Reduzieren (sp?) is a word. I picked that up and now have a tendency to add "-ieren" to every verb I want to turn into German. :p [/font][/size]

[Sara]

[quote name='Lady Asphyxia][size=2][font=arial narrow]I've been learning German for several years now, myself, but my problem is not [i]really[/i] vocab at the moment. We've just covered the environment, which is such a specialised area it's really easy to pick up vocab about [i]Verschmutzung[/i] (Pollution) and Conservation. [/font'][/size][/quote][color=#6699cc]Oh, tee hee.

About [i]die Verschmutzung[/i]: my German class last semester was the first one (ever) in which we did [b]not[/b] have a unit on the environment. However, there was a point toward the end of classes when the teacher asked us to brainstorm and make a list of stereotypically German things. [i]Bier, Kafka, Oktoberfest,[/i] techno, etc., etc.

I said [i]Umwelt.[/i] The [i]entire class[/i] dissolved into laughter. It gladdens me to know that everyone learning German, everywhere has to go through the "save the world!" chapters. It's like one giant in-joke. :)

And for some reason, it always makes me feel like I'm eight years old and reading [i]Ranger Rick[/i]. Conservation: [i]tres[/i] Nineties. Heh. (Kinda sad...)

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