London Bombs

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]A lot of you are saying that Al Queda did not inspire fear; but rather, anger and resolve, and when I read that, well, I smiled. It just goes to show that nobody is afraid of them, and we'll keep fighting them.

I completely agree with Evil Jedi in that they weren't even targeting the government or the army or whatever, but innocent civilians [i]going to work[/i]. That's was always got me about the 9/11 attacks - there are thousands of people around the world upset with America, but none of them are so morally corrupt as to purposely attack innocent people [i]going to their job[/i]. They're such low lifes.

And if this says anything about Al Queda, I'm more afraid of the media than them. I'm currently afraid to turn on my TV because of the 24 hours news and such; They keep throwing the same images and the same numbers at you again and again like an interrogator until you loose all your senses and start to break down. That's what made me go insane after 9/11 - I was angry at the terrorists, never frightened - but the news is evil, and it made me want to break down and not be strong, which is [u]part of[/u] the terrorist strategy.

Media = bad. They fan out the flames too much sometimes. [/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I heard about this on the local news this morning and my mom told me. I was a bit worried since some of you guys are in England and I have very bad geographical knowledge of England, I'm glad all ya'll are alright.

I honestly have no idea what to say, I mean what the hell is wrong with some people today? It's just plain disturbing to be alive in these times.

It may take a while, but I;m sure Londoners will rebuild.[/color]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Minako]
I also can't believe that the States decided to raise the color thingy. (I don't even know what it is!) Anywho, when Madrid got bombed last year(?) they didn't raise the color then! (correct me if I'm wrong..) grr. I don't understand the US government.. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


I'm glad your cousin is alright, L. :)

But to comment the alert-color-raising-thingy: the government did that to increase the (false) sense of security of the people. The reason they didn't raise it when Madrid got bombed was because Americans clearly didn't feel threatened then, or not at least as much as now that London got bombed, since this time the attack was against people who speak the same language as the Americans, and are considered their closest allies in this maniac war.

...Okay, I didn't make much sense since there are so many people in the States who speak Spanish (namely the Latin population), but I guess it's the majority that calls the shots in this thing too.

On behalf of the AlQaida, what I'm sensing is a decrease in strength. I believe they have lost much of their supporters and "martyrs" during these years. Look at how many people they sent to hijack those planes on 9/11 (weren't there like thirty of them?), and look how few sacrificed their lives for their cause yesterday (seven? even fewer if the bombs were just left in the trains).

Of course, it might be harder for them to get their "minions" through to Western countries (although probably many of the bombers yesterday had lived in the UK for a long time), but I sincerely believe that the organization has critically diminished in manpower.

After all, it requires a lot of despair, zeal and at least a tinge of madness for a person to set a bomb into a crowd of innocent people.

[James]

[QUOTE=Sage]

But to comment the alert-color-raising-thingy: the government did that to increase the (false) sense of security of the people. The reason they didn't raise it when Madrid got bombed was because Americans clearly didn't feel threatened then, or not at least as much as now that London got bombed, since this time the attack was against people who speak the same language as the Americans, and are considered their closest allies in this maniac war.
[/QUOTE][color=#332e1d][font=franklin gothic medium]The colour alert is raised for functional reasons primarily. Each level of the alert triggers different types of security responses at different levels (local, state, federal).

It's a bit like that military defense system that they use, where each level represents different degrees of preparedness. On one level, you might only have minimal or basic security, but on another you might implement additional measures (such as bomb-detecting dogs and additional security patrols).

So, the alert response has nothing to do with language. What you'll find is that after the Madrid bombings, the United States increased its security alerts on their mass transit systems only. Considering the groups like this seem to have a preference for multiple simultaneous (or near-simultaneous) bombings, I do think it's the prudent thing to do.

You'll also find that the alert being raised isn't particularly general; alerts are raised or lowered in certain sectors. The main benefit is just for law enforcement, rather than the public.

If anything, I think that higher alerts frighten the public more than they actually give anyone peace of mind. That's partly why I think the public representation of the system is not terribly effective.[/font][/color]

[Aaryanna]

[QUOTE=James][color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]This should be a reaffirmation of the evils of religious fundamentalism - any religion. Each major religion has played a major role in various forms of carnage throughout human history. Unfortunately, rigidity and zeal can lead to violence like this.

So yes, it's not just about Muslim extremism. It's about religious extremism, period. I think it's something people should always be wary of, even as a non-violent force it can be destructive. [/color][/font][/QUOTE]

I so agree with that. Religious extremism is such a waste and so destructive. And downright evil. There's nothing even remotely religious when people behave like that. Personally I think they are behaving more like a cult like the KKK did in America. Anyone who does that can claim they are religious, but I think they are evil. :animeangr

[Blayze]

[size=1]I live a little way from London, and when I heard the news yesterday, I was shocked to say the least. It's really something you never think is going to happen to your country in your lifetime, and yet the evidence is there. I was fairly lucky, though, as the day before yesterday I was in London on a school trip, and my parents were both in London as well. It scared me how close it had been.

As for the motives for commiting these attacks, I don't think it is fair to say that they were doing it because of the Olympics. It was the day after the result came in, and the evidence shows that this attack was pretty well-coordinated, something which I don't believe anyone could plan in less than a day.

Several of my friends had someone in their family who was in London, so they were pretty scared for most of yesterday, although as far as I know none of them were hurt.

According to the news, high-up Muslims have said that the people who commited these attacks were not true Muslims in any sense of the word, but I still worry about the repercussions for any Muslims in this country. Without a doubt, a lot of people in this country, a lot of sick, narrow-minded people will blame any Muslim for this atrocity, but that is completely out of order. I hate the way that just because one group of people from a certain cultural background have done something like this, the whole culture is blamed.

Anyway, I hope my views count towards something here.
[/size]

[Dragonboym2]

[COLOR=Blue]My old job councelor and freind Sarah is english, and lives not to far from London. I hope to God that she is okay. I am really shocked over this horrible attack, and I wasn't surprised that Al-Keda was behind it. But still, I am worried about Sarah.

To all of those who have been lost in this tragic event: May your souls at last find peace.
Stay strong everyone. Stay strong.

"KAMEHAMEHA!"

Dragonboym2[/COLOR]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I do hope you're right in that Al Queda is loosing a lot of their members; they should.

I agree with James as well - I don't think the color system is really that effective. When the whole nation goes on Orange alert or something, people freak out. They buy rations, gallons of water, and sheets of plastic and duct tape. (Every single time I see that, I laugh. A word to the wise: [b]plastic won't save you from a bio/chemical terrorist attack.[/b]) It's rediculous!

I think the color alerts are [i]alright[/i] for police checking bags and being on alert and such, but I've always sort of thought they were dumb to begin with. There's been lots of reports done by newsstations and such that say Airport security don't really have a lot of training at all to be searching bags properly. And there are tons of people on the subways - how much can you check bags? :/

Edit: Fallen - yeah, I worry about those muslim people too; It's definitely not fair for them. I remember after 9/11, a school friend whose brother in law died, her sister would flip out at any muslim she saw - and that's not right. It's not fair and it's not right to make general assumptions.[/color]

[Sandy]

I believe it's actually the same thing with most of the muslim terrorists, only reversed. They have been hurt by Western people in the past one way or the other, so now they feel justified to take it out on anybody representing the West.

What frustrates me to no end is that there is the simplest solution to this whole crazy situation: to stop hating (meaning both sides of the conflict)! But no, people will rather hate blindly, not realizing that it only causes more hatred and suffering, and a vicious cycle of revenge with no end. The situation in Iraq might just as well end up as desperately unsolvable as the situation in Israel.

Why won't people just see the obvious? Why is it so hard? Why must people hate? Hollow questions since there aren't any answers... :(

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]It's hard because the world isn't that simple.

The main reason that Osama bin Laden formed Al-Qaeda was because of the American presence on Saudi soil in Gulf War I. He felt that it was offensive for foreign troops to be in the holy land. That's what sparked it.

The Americans were only there because they had gotten permission from Saudi Arabia to use its soil to strike on Iraq, in defence of Kuwait (which Iraq had invaded).

So there is no justification or reason for bin Laden's fanatacism whatsoever; the same as with [i]any [/i]religious fanatacism. People will gladly cite "oppression" or they'll cite reasons why they feel their cause is justified. But no matter what the political (and highly vague, frequently shifting) reasons are, it's all just an excuse. If it wasn't Saudi Arabia, it'd be Israel or it'd be some other cause. There is really no cause at all.[/color][/font]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=James][color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]It's hard because the world isn't that simple.
[/color][/font][/QUOTE]


Sigh, I know that... :( At times like these I realize how much this world sucks. But I guess we humans only have ourselves to blame for the suckiness.

Fortunately there's at least some sort of balance in this world, because there's so much good in this world, too. As individuals we're trying to keep our footing on that rickety scale. :/

[Minako]

Sage, you're a sweetie! :D

I think one of the reasons that people make assumptions about others (such as the Muslims for example), is lack of knowledge. Since I'm not from the US, people just assume that I'm stupid. Even though, I have NO ACCENT WHATSOEVER, and I get top marks in school. When 9/11 happened, I didn't make assumptions like that. It was just a select few who attacked NY. Not every Muslim is evil, like some people assume.

Back to the topic of this thread, the London attacks, I must say that I am quite amazed at the British people. Like one new source said, at first they were afraid, but they rose to the challenge of helping the injured, and were generally calm. (not an exact quote, mind you..) The big thing that got me was, [B]they didn't panic.[/B] They didn't run around like chickens with their heads cut off. For that, I applaude you. *claps hands* Go England.

[James]

[QUOTE=Sage]Sigh, I know that... :( At times like these I realize how much this world sucks. But I guess we humans only have ourselves to blame for the suckiness.

Fortunately there's at least some sort of balance in this world, because there's so much good in this world, too. As individuals we're trying to keep our footing on that rickety scale. :/[/QUOTE][color=#332e1d][font=franklin gothic medium]Yeah, on the day of these attacks I was talking to someone on AIM who was acting in a panicked fashion, despite not even being anywhere near the area.

My advice was just to counterbalance all of this by doing something positive - by investing yourself in something you enjoy, or by spending time with people you care about, etc. I suppose it sounds like fairly cliche advice, but getting upset and panicked over these things only gives them more power and significance. I think that's definitely true.

It reminds me of a Marilyn Manson lyric: "The more that you fear us, the bigger we get."

Isn't that so true of many things in life? The more that you fear it, the more it dominates you and controls you.

So, I think if people shed their fear and focus on doing positive things and indulging in what brings them pleasure, life will seem a lot nicer in general.[/font][/color]

[GreatBird]

I know Ive already posted here but im gonna post again. James I agree 100% with what you said Well done my friend. All that think this is someones fault is just making an excuse. Ever since the begining of time someone has been out there to ruin somebodys life. Everyone is intitled to there own oppinion. This attack or any other is no ones fault. Since the begining and to the end of time there will be attacks such as these. There is no killing terrorist they re everywhere and will not cease to exist. But we can fight back maybe not with weapons ( I am Pro for the war on terror.) But we can show them that they can not influence our lives with meaningless attacks. If you allow them to influence or change you the terrorist have won. You have to keep going on with your normal lives. Thank God For people like Tony Blair and George Bush for not allowing them to affect our normal and everyday lives. \. The reason i say that you cant blame this on someone is because there is good and evil in this world so you can not put the blame on just one person anyone but the mass of people that make up evil. And like James said In times like these spend time with your loved ones Because no matter how messy it getts you can allways clean it right up.Sorry if i have offended anyone in this post. And once again all the families that had to go through this tragedy have my deepest condolences.
[RIGHT]-GreatBird[/RIGHT]

[Lord Dante]

They have caught the ***holes that planted the bombs.

They tracked down the bus bomber, and through him were able to track down the three otyhers.

The three tube bombers died at the scene, the bus bomber survived (i think).

Al-quaeda were not behind the attacks. the attacks were made by english citizens. It sickens me that an englishman would be able to do this to his own countrymen.

just thought i'd post this news update.

[Dagger]

If possible, could you provide a link to some articles or something? Where I'm staying right now, it's a bit hard to access the news in English, and I'm afraid my knowledge of what happened here is a little sketchy. The last thing I read (at CNN.com or something like that) stated that al Qaeda had not been ruled out of the equation, so I assume this must be really recent news.

Also, is there any word on why those men made the attacks?

~Dagger~

[celestialcharm]

[QUOTE=James][color=#332e1d][font=franklin gothic medium]Yeah, on the day of these attacks I was talking to someone on AIM who was acting in a panicked fashion, despite not even being anywhere near the area.

My advice was just to counterbalance all of this by doing something positive - by investing yourself in something you enjoy, or by spending time with people you care about, etc. I suppose it sounds like fairly cliche advice, but getting upset and panicked over these things only gives them more power and significance. I think that's definitely true.

It reminds me of a Marilyn Manson lyric: "The more that you fear us, the bigger we get."

Isn't that so true of many things in life? The more that you fear it, the more it dominates you and controls you.

So, I think if people shed their fear and focus on doing positive things and indulging in what brings them pleasure, life will seem a lot nicer in general.[/font][/color][/QUOTE]

Thanks for writing that!!! It made me think and put me at ease. I just heard on the radio, that Canada is the only country left on Osama bin Laden's hit list. Hearing that freaked me out because I told my parents and siblings we were going to be next.

[Lord Dante]

[QUOTE=Dagger]If possible, could you provide a link to some articles or something? Where I'm staying right now, it's a bit hard to access the news in English, and I'm afraid my knowledge of what happened here is a little sketchy. The last thing I read (at CNN.com or something like that) stated that al Qaeda had not been ruled out of the equation, so I assume this must be really recent news.

Also, is there any word on why those men made the attacks?

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]
if i can find some articles, then i'll send them to you.

but al-quaeda are NOT responsible for the attacks. the attacs were made by englishmen. some came from yorkshire i believe, and one form somewhere else.

[Red]

Something I think that Londoners knew was coming eventually, but weren't quite fully prepared for.

I turned up at the station near my house only to find that line of the tube suspended. A normal morning for most - a recently renovated tube line seemingly brought to it's knees by what we were told was a power surge.

I can barely explain how utterly bizarre it is to see one of London's huge parks bulging with silent, mostly suited pedestrians. A few words would be exchanged to do with directions, but despite the fact that nobody knew what was going on that eerie hush was maintained; seemingly because we're all meant to be used to strange happenings.

After it became apparent that there had been attacks, seemingly every method of communications jammed up like a margarine convention. I've never seen anything quite like the mass rush to phones, instant messengers and e-mail like then. Even stranger to see were the people in the streets, either dropping everything to help a lost person, comforting those who were worried sick & later on the in day, just plain facing up to the problem.

Apologies to prattle on, but it's very hard to describe how the whole city seemed to take one huge kick between the legs, realise it needed to wear a cup more often and get straight back up again. It seemed that in the space of two hours, every single Londoners attitude had changed - the same look on thousands of faces is hard to miss.

Unfortunately, in some ways the attacks have 'worked'. 70+ bomb scares alone in the past week on the tubes causing further chaos hasn't helped the nerves of many, putting a bag down and standing up will reward you with a few rigid stares. A little more weariness could go a long way though, when you consider that it's nigh on impossible to apply stringent security across the underground without huge expenditure or massive delays to passengers.


The sad thing is that I can envision all this being used as large amounts of ammunition by Tony Blair. The issue of ID cards and their supposed security potential (which is pretty darn low) is ever looming. Mr. Blair has faced challenges in explaining exactly how the technical aspects of the cards will work (biometrics, a central database, card usage tracking and so on), having yet another reason for the security argument could sway less technically-aware towards the scheme while side stepping more important facts.

Then, of course, there is the war. How the British government will continue it's reaction considering all four men were born & bred here is beyond me, but I assume further towards the push of 'ending global terrorism'. Lord Dante - [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678837.stm]take a gander here for information about the bombers.[/url]

Hopefully that all made some sense.

[Zidargh]

We got 'hit' again today.

But the bombers were idiots.

Here's the report from AOL News: -

[quote=AOL News]Terrified Tube passengers have been evacuated from trains after a series of explosions caused panic on the London Underground network.

The driver of a bus also reported a small explosion as he drove through east London.

Emergency services were sent to Warren Street, Oval and the Shepherds Bush (Hammersmith & City Line) Tube stations.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair told reporters at New Scotland Yard the incidents were "serious''.

He said there appeared to have been a series of explosions or attempted explosions. But he added: "The bombs appear to be smaller than on the last occasion.''

The blasts occurred exactly two weeks after the London suicide bombings which left 56 people dead. But there was only one reported injury immediately after the latest incidents.

The whole of Shepherds Bush Green was cordoned off between Holland Park and the Hammersmith & City Line Tube station after a suspect package was discovered.

Police officers continued to move people away from the station, clearing shops, offices and pubs along the way.

At Warren Street station, a witness said an explosive device had been detonated in a man's rucksack but may have failed to go off properly.

And there were reports that a man dumped a rucksack inside a train at Oval Tube station, fleeing as the doors closed.

One casualty has been reported at Warren Street, but no further details have yet emerged.

Underground services on the Victoria, Northern and Hammermith & City lines were all suspended.

Emergency services were called to a bus in east London and University College Hospital in central London has also been cordoned off.

Passengers evacuated from Warren Street station reported seeing smoke in the carriages before the evacuation.

Passenger Ivan McCracken said: "A man was carrying a rucksack and the rucksack suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open the rucksack.

"The man then made an exclamation as if something had gone wrong. At that point everyone rushed from the carriage."

A witness at the Oval incident said he heard a sound "like champagne popping" then passengers erupting in panic.

He said: "As far as I know from what a lady at the top of the escalator was saying, someone came into the carriage, dumped the bag and ran out. Some people tried to stop him but he ran out."

The windows of the bus, travelling from Waterloo to Hackney, were blown out - but no casualties were reported.
[/quote]

We got lucky, but the question remains, "What are they thinking?"

On the whole I've got this funny image of a bomber's rucksack exploding pathetically on his shoulders causing him to let out an "Oh... ****" and run off. Champagne popping sound? Oh the terror. Idiots.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]*nod* Yeah, I heard about this, this morning, right as I was leaving to go to work. I'm glad nobody was hurt or anything.

Why are they so interested in bombing London? They should leave Englanders alone, because you guys are cool. =/ Can't they cause terror in some other country - say... France? ~_~

By the way, I'd just like to let you all know that as typical Americans, we've taken the focus off England (in our news), and put it on ourselves. Now all you hear on the news is that they're going to do random checks in NYC subway stations, but there's no racial profiling, but the American Civil Liberties Union says it's against the fourth ammendment (search & seizure), but that New Yorkers want the checks. So yeah, way to totally ignore England! Good job. =D [/color]

[Lafleur]

[COLOR=DarkRed]The bombers aren't idiots. They know exactly what they're doing. They're just trying to keep the people afraid, hence TERRORISM. They don't need to kill anyone to cause terror. The bombers are just saying it loud "We did it, we can do it again" and they will, without a doubt they will.

Just glad my government had the common sense not to set foot in Iraq, even if we are on the List of Six, we're on the bottom. [/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]
Why are they so interested in bombing London? They should leave Englanders alone, because you guys are cool. =/ Can't they cause terror in some other country - say... France? ~_~
[/color][/QUOTE]


Well that was a cruel thing to say, Roxie! Don't tell me you're one of those "France is against freedom, they don't approve us bombing Middle East into ruins!! They must die like their Muslim pals!!" -type of people! I can't believe it of you... :(

Of course the extremists bomb England and USA instead of France, because those two are the most influential countries involved in this whole lunatic "Anti-terrorist war"!

Anyway, it's very sad that you Americans hate French only because they don't agree with you. FYI, most Finnish people don't agree with this war either. War has never solved anything in the entire history of mankind. It only spreads hatred and ill will.

You should think more about what you say, Roxie, because with your comment you might've just made somebody feel even more against you Americans.

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Ilium][color=DarkRed']The bombers aren't idiots. They know exactly what they're doing. They're just trying to keep the people afraid, hence TERRORISM.[/color][/quote] [font=Trebuchet MS]All evidence points to these attacks having been perpetrated by an entirely different cell of bombers to those of two weeks ago. And I'm fairly sure they [b]were [/b]idiots, or their bombs would have actually done some damage, instead of frightening a few grannies and blowing holes in their own backpacks. Not a single one of the four bombs detonated properly, only the detonators went off, without igniting the main body of explosive as is the intention; this suggests these new bombers were pretty incompetent.

[quote name='Ilium][/font][color=DarkRed'] They don't need to kill anyone to cause terror.[/quote] [font=Trebuchet MS][color=black]I wish they thought like that. I could deal with terrorists [b]not [/b]killing people every two weeks. The fact is that terrorists believe killing innocents [b]is [/b]the only way to gain attention.

[/color][/font][/color][font=Trebuchet MS][quote name='Ilium][/font][color=DarkRed']The bombers are just saying it loud "We did it, we can do it again" and they will, without a doubt they will.[/quote][/color]
[font=Trebuchet MS] Whatever they may have been trying to proclaim, all they've managed this time is to disrupt the tube network, dump their failures of bombs for the police to examine at their leisure, and get the whole country chuckling with relief at their puny efforts.
[/font]

[Zidargh]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]The bombers aren't idiots. They know exactly what they're doing. They're just trying to keep the people afraid, hence TERRORISM. They don't need to kill anyone to cause terror. The bombers are just saying it loud "We did it, we can do it again" and they will, without a doubt they will.

Just glad my government had the common sense not to set foot in Iraq, even if we are on the List of Six, we're on the bottom. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Disruption or killing aside, either way, the bombers [b]are[/b] idiots as Raiyuu kindly agreed. If you're going to carry out a mission that supposedly makes you a Martyr for you are fighting for the Jihad or whatever's it's called now, you'd at least be able to carry it out correctly. And I'm not saying they [b]should've[/b] hit us, I'm just making a statement that supports how terrorism is clearly an unorganised act of potential violence.

And they are doing it very unsuccessfully. All they've done is given alot of people the jitters throughout the world, but life goes on. Millions of people,a little wary, still made use of the public transport.

Regarding NYC's random checks, I don't understand how that's going to work. Why not search people who resemble the suspects rather than a kid with a Japanese, yellow bum-bag?