Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 ok well i have been only on otaku for little over a week now...but i see a lot of references about topics being shut down because sometimes a thing would hit a religous viewpoint or arguments would start to get out of hand.... Well I am wondering what everyone's opionin on Debateing things in an [b]intellegent[/b] and [b]friendly[/b]. I understand this idea might not work out because some people on Otaku might not have the maturity level required to debate a matter with a lot of conflict on both sides without making threats or starting to take things personally..... My own opinion is that I like to talk about things deep in conflict or that require deep thought...It helps me get a better perspective on things and forces me to think more and see things from other peoples opinions...It also helps me to think deeper into other problems..... oh and no offense meant but if you are one of those people who can't handle talks like this ...ie low maturity....please don't post here...I would like to keep from seeing this topic closed and not being able to see others opionins on this ubject.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 Hm..I think it is a great idea...and personally I agree with you, it would be nice to be able to debate with eachother, but not taking anything personally or anything..you know what I mean! Well I hope it works out, might as well give us a topic to debate on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 ahh i am going to wait and see more people response on this before i go that far.....I don't want this to turn into a full blowen argument before I know what i will have to deal with and have this thread closed supremely quickly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 Well, that would be nice, if only some members knew how to debate maturely. It was made painfully obvious to all of us that so many members can't handle debating maturely by, The Daily Otaku. The crap that went on among some of its members is the definition of immaturity... -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiroMunkie Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [SIZE=1]I think this is a good idea, as long, of course, as it doesn't get out of hand. Although, if a person has low maturity, and you tell them not to post here if they are just gonna inslt somethin or whatnot, then they're gonna post here just because you told them not to. It's the simple truth. But it would be good if this topic worked out.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Videl~ Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 Sounds like a good idea. I love a good intellectual discussion or friendly argument (yes there can be such a thing if you do it right:D ). This could be an interesting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 wow a lot of support....I hope this thread works out....well anyway i am going to post a warning about myself....If i notices a debate is starting to lose it's "flare" or that it is becoming solely one sides I will jump to another view point to flare the discussion back up and try and get people to see things from others points of view...i can do this because one reason i like debates are that i am still undecided on a lot of things so i try and approach a debate from all sides....or at least try and understand where the other side is coming from.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 so Anti, do you come up with a good debate topic yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 Yeah i have a topic i want to debate about...i am waiting to see how a few more people respond to this and to see how a mod/god/admin respondes.....before i post it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [SIZE=1]Raise your hand if you think this topic is going to end in one horrible argument...[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 erhm that is verly likely to happen....it is what i am trying to avoid but from what i heard it could very well happen it all depends on the maturiety of the people in the debate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 SOme debates can't go without non-friendly thoughts... some people don't always know all the facts on certain things, others are too close minded to accept something else.... We've had debates that always end up with flaming or whatever... those would be religious, abortion, and sometimes homosexual debates..... certain things are too personal or to important to someone to accept another ideal... they think they are right, the other thinks they are right too... it's a conflict already.... I believe you can debate... i dunno if it will be friendly... but I think, if people would think about what they say sometimes, maybe watch what they type and get rid of some before they post it (i do that ALL the time) then the debates would be better... more mannerly, etc..... I realize some people get fed up... and sometimes they don't watch what they say, believe me I have had that happen to me, in fact just recently.... of course alot of people misread what I said to begin with.... thats another thing with debating, esspecially when it's typing and not talking, you have to understand what the other person says... if you miss a word here or there, or whatever... No one's going to like everyone, no ones going to believe everyone... nothing in life is normal, nothing in life is the same... and people are going to disagree and alot of things, if not everything, has Pros and Cons so it's hard to make truth in what is right or wrong.... which leads to debates, which then heat up and someone gets hurt... so yeah... debates can be mannerly, but they most likely will not... esspecially with kids.. and even immature people. Not saying the boards are, just some are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [SIZE=1]Well, this thread doesn't even seem to have a topic yet. So I suppose that people can't argue over a topic that doesn't exist. PS: Think of a topic soon or the mods are going to close it down :([/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 erhm thanks for your opinion TN....I expect the debates to flame up and IMHO they are ussually more interesting that way...but if it gets out of hand...I ensure that the topic gets closed because i don't want to be the bringer of people turning against each other just because they can't agree with each other on a few subjects....ok Well with the blessing of TN I will post the first topic.... What you feel about the events that happened Sept. 11 2001 and how you feel about the U.S. response to them...ok GO!! erhm I am interested in other peoples opinions so I can know where to go about this....I have multipale feelings about this so am waiting for a few others to post theirs before i post mine....if a few people don't post though i will come back and post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Videl~ Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 I think what happened was terrible and cannot be justified by anybody, no matter what their motivation or what they think the US has done - I lost my uncle that day. But.......I am essentially a pacifist, any taking of innocent lives is wrong to me no matter what the provocation. Also America and other countries must have know about the threat Al Kaieda(sp) posed for years so why did thoousands of innocent people have to die before any action was taken. I don't think that bombing civilians is the answer, I think that Osma Bin Laden is a very clever man and in that respect only I do have some respect for him. It seems to me that the west is being drawn into a conflict that will destabilise our ecconomies and cause rifts between previiously friendly countries. No matter what we do we cannot win. If we bomb Afganistan we are seen as monsters by Islamic extremeists and their cause is strengthened but if we do nothing then the terrorist threat will only increase. Ther is no easy answer to this one......for all our sakes I wish there was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 ok well i have a feeling i am going to get alot of stuuf like that...which i happen to agree with to some degree and so I will post part of what I think..... OK first off just to clarify I think the Sept 11'th acts were a horrible action. I am in agreence with what the U.S. response is to a degree. I don't spprove of the bombing of civlians...I however do approve of the dealing with the terriost threat before someone like China or Russia gets it into their heads that the U.S. is a push over.... Anywho....in some respectes the U.S deserves completely what we got. I mean look the big "Evil Empires" of the U.S. or the giant corperations sit in places like the Middle East and sit their and screw up the lives of millionts and millions of people...We have been doing this for quite a while and as thus have been portrayed as the image of Evil to the some of the middle easterners...We do the same thing that they did to us just in smaller amounts and "legaly". The corperations still cause the death of untold lives because they so royally screw over the people in the middle east... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 I think what happened is also Terrible and un-justified! Yet I think we as a nation acted very well! We did not strike w/o knowing! And even tho we have been bombing Afganistan we have made it clear it is not the afgan's we are attacking but the TALIBAN. WE have even given them supplies. I think Bush did a good job in creating alliances along the border so they couldn't escape. I think tho, that some Americans, are not handeling it very well, I think they are becoming racist,and unjust! I don't think we should go around saying that all Arabics are evil, or are gonna kill someone. (I am not trying to bash or anythign) But an example would be a topic in Games and Stories that was deleted which was entitiled KILL THE AFGANIS!! I think that is totally un-called for, and that even we have been doing great militaryly we need to work on our morals, and not bash people, because of them being ARABIC.... Yeah sorry if that is jumbled up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Videl~ Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]Anywho....in some respectes the U.S deserves completely what we got. I mean look the big "Evil Empires" of the U.S. or the giant corperations sit in places like the Middle East and sit their and screw up the lives of millionts and millions of people...We have been doing this for quite a while and as thus have been portrayed as the image of Evil to the some of the middle easterners...We do the same thing that they did to us just in smaller amounts and "legaly". The corperations still cause the death of untold lives because they so royally screw over the people in the middle east... [/B][/QUOTE] You are so right! Add to that the fact that there is oil near the caspian sea and the only route to get it out (the US not wanting to go throug Iraq/Iran i forget which - bad at goegraphy!) is via Afghanistan and it starts to become clear why the US would want a controlling stake in any new governmant there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9* Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 i'm really uncertain on a lot of what is happening right now. i know that we can not let the acts of 9/11 go unanswered, but when i cannot help but feel that we rushed into violence, as long as the evidence is clear and in the hands of our leaders i'm okay with it. i will still mourn the loss of innocent lives on both sides. as for some of the more recent stuff, check the thread i started (in response to the us sec of defense), i blew off a lot of my anger there, so i'm not going to post it here. we also have to remember that the us is not alone in these actions, even tho we have taken the front line position. this will be a cool thread as long as we keep it civil, so remember all items posted in this message are my private opinions only :toothy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]ok well i have a feeling i am going to get alot of stuuf like that...which i happen to agree with to some degree and so I will post part of what I think..... OK first off just to clarify I think the Sept 11'th acts were a horrible action. I am in agreence with what the U.S. response is to a degree. I don't spprove of the bombing of civlians...I however do approve of the dealing with the terriost threat before someone like China or Russia gets it into their heads that the U.S. is a push over.... Anywho....in some respectes the U.S deserves completely what we got. I mean look the big "Evil Empires" of the U.S. or the giant corperations sit in places like the Middle East and sit their and screw up the lives of millionts and millions of people...We have been doing this for quite a while and as thus have been portrayed as the image of Evil to the some of the middle easterners...We do the same thing that they did to us just in smaller amounts and "legaly". The corperations still cause the death of untold lives because they so royally screw over the people in the middle east... [/B][/QUOTE] True that we may cause suffering. I think it is the Middle East's fault that they are not as prosperouse as us. We creat almost all their wealth, and I believe if they would share it and not just have maybe 1% take it they would be doing great! We are there biggest reciever of Oil, and we give em plenty of money for it. I am not saying that they should look at us as a kind supported or something. I think they should just see us as a county living, thats all we are doing. We just got lucky, and got good land. We give them Billions if not Trillions of dollars a year for oil. I think that we did not get what we deserved in that aspect. I think we got what we deserved in another area. I believe we flaunted our stuff too much, and became careless. In that sense YES we deserved it. In the other sense I do not believe we deserve it. We pretty much made their economy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Videl~ Posted November 23, 2001 Share Posted November 23, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DuoGod of Death [/i] [B] True that we may cause suffering. I think it is the Middle East's fault that they are not as prosperouse as us. We creat almost all their wealth, and I believe if they would share it and not just have maybe 1% take it they would be doing great! We are there biggest reciever of Oil, and we give em plenty of money for it. I am not saying that they should look at us as a kind supported or something. I think they should just see us as a county living, thats all we are doing. We just got lucky, and got good land. We give them Billions if not Trillions of dollars a year for oil. I think that we did not get what we deserved in that aspect. I think we got what we deserved in another area. I believe we flaunted our stuff too much, and became careless. In that sense YES we deserved it. In the other sense I do not believe we deserve it. We pretty much made their economy.. [/B][/QUOTE] Yes I believe it is the fault of middle eastern countries that they are not as prosperous as western ones to an extent, but it is the fault of the governments not the ordinary person in the street. These countries do get billions of dollars a year for oil but the average person like you or I will never see a penny of it probably due largely to corrupt leaderships. Also, a lot of these governments like in Pakistan are very westernised - they wear western clothes, read our papers, you can't get a civil service job there unless you have a good understanding of western politics - they generally immerse themselves in our cultuer and become prosperous, whether through this or corrupt means I don't know. The normal people- who by our standards are poor- have started to become resentful of this but this resentment has manifested itself as a hatred for our way of life. And who can blame them, while these peolple are getting poorer every day they are constantly taunted by images of a greedy society they see as destroying their traditional way of life. Then there is the IMF - World bank (run by rich western countries) who may have supported these peoples ecconomies in the past by loaning them money but now virtually control them through impossible to meet loan payments. The two ways of life life simply have unresolveable cultural differences - we have to learn to get along and each accept the other for who we are - and I think a cancelling of all debts owed by countries like these to countries like us who can afford it would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 23, 2001 Author Share Posted November 23, 2001 Interesting points Duo..... I still agree with my own but their are more reasons as to why we got what we did then just economical ones...Their are things like Religon, which we won't touch on till i have seized up how everyone who post acts...that is a really touchy subject..., Weapons supply to the Islamic people...Heavy duty propaganda....a few other things to.... Let's hit off on another reason why we are so widely hated...which duo touched on - even if he didn't know it - It is because the U.S. has it made. (this isn't to offend anyone but my views as an american)) Most Americans live in luxery compared to what most of the world has to go through. We sit in our "Bubble" of prosperity and "mostly" ignore the worlds problems. WE sit here and whine about this or that when most of us have it 10 fold better then the majority of the world...WE basicly sit on our LAZY Arsh's whining about this or that, while living in luxery that most people of the world can only dream about, and do practicully nothing to help them. Most Americans are completely ignorant of what happens outside of America. "WE" just don't care. We have our lifes with their problems and that is everything to the average american. Because of this we send very little relief etc etc compared to what we could be doing and our big buisnesses take advantage of the country's econimies.... I wrote this message before you posted your fidel so if it touches on some of the same stuff that is why.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted November 24, 2001 Share Posted November 24, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]Interesting points Duo..... I still agree with my own but their are more reasons as to why we got what we did then just economical ones...Their are things like Religon, which we won't touch on till i have seized up how everyone who post acts...that is a really touchy subject..., Weapons supply to the Islamic people...Heavy duty propaganda....a few other things to.... Let's hit off on another reason why we are so widely hated...which duo touched on - even if he didn't know it - It is because the U.S. has it made. (this isn't to offend anyone but my views as an american)) Most Americans live in luxery compared to what most of the world has to go through. We sit in our "Bubble" of prosperity and "mostly" ignore the worlds problems. WE sit here and whine about this or that when most of us have it 10 fold better then the majority of the world...WE basicly sit on our LAZY Arsh's whining about this or that, while living in luxery that most people of the world can only dream about, and do practicully nothing to help them. Most Americans are completely ignorant of what happens outside of America. "WE" just don't care. We have our lifes with their problems and that is everything to the average american. Because of this we send very little relief etc etc compared to what we could be doing and our big buisnesses take advantage of the country's econimies.... I wrote this message before you posted your fidel so if it touches on some of the same stuff that is why.. [/B][/QUOTE] I do respect your opinions, and agree with almost all of 'em. But I think it is not our fault that we are not as involved in the world than we used to be.. When we were involved in the world countries told us to butt out, and so now that we did what they said they are jealouse, and are trying to think of reasons to make us horrible! (that does not go for every nation, and this is ment in no offense!) I think people like Sudam Hussain and Osams bin Laden have just used HUGE propaganda and have made us look like slave drives. And yet in some reasons we are. In some countries we do still have "SWEAT HOUSES", and there are not as many as there used to be. Personally I think America as a nation has been cleaning up their act when it comes to foreign relations, and I think Osama attacked us, for two reasons. 1, hoping we would strike out without any knowledge making us worse to the Middle East, and 2 for the religiouse war he has called on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted November 24, 2001 Author Share Posted November 24, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DuoGod of Death [/i] [B] I do respect your opinions, and agree with almost all of 'em. But I think it is not our fault that we are not as involved in the world than we used to be.. When we were involved in the world countries told us to butt out, and so now that we did what they said they are jealouse, and are trying to think of reasons to make us horrible! (that does not go for every nation, and this is ment in no offense!) I think people like Sudam Hussain and Osams bin Laden have just used HUGE propaganda and have made us look like slave drives. And yet in some reasons we are. In some countries we do still have "SWEAT HOUSES", and there are not as many as there used to be. Personally I think America as a nation has been cleaning up their act when it comes to foreign relations, and I think Osama attacked us, for two reasons. 1, hoping we would strike out without any knowledge making us worse to the Middle East, and 2 for the religiouse war he has called on. [/B][/QUOTE] LoL I agree with everything you say Duo....We have in many ways cleaned up our foreign relations....Their are Huge Propaganda making us look eviler then we really are...and Right now we arn't helping that much...Although being relistic does anyone really expect us to stop our war for a whole month?!? No because that would give the taliban and Osama Bin Laden a chance to escape to somewhere else.... We are pretty bad in some aspects....but in others we are doing a fairly good job...we coulda done better on electing a president....but thats off subject...As far as the religous war goes...it hasn't happened yet...mostly due to the point that Saudi Arabia is on our side...but it could still happen specially if we drag this thing through another one of their religous holidays.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted November 24, 2001 Share Posted November 24, 2001 [b][color=darkred] I am just scared that maybe one of our allies for example pakistan or saudi arabia might turn on us.[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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