Writing Warning! This thread contains unmarked spoilers!: Harry Potter, Book 6.

[Japan]

[COLOR=Navy]I've been thinking about the whole Dumbledore/Snape thing.

[spoiler]Maybe Dumbledore trusting in Snape was suppose to be a defect and show that Dumbledore is still human and not some kind of god. He himself did say that he made mistakes from time to time. His trusting in Snape maybe showed that.[/spoiler]

Just a thought.[/COLOR]

[Sandy]

I finished the book the day before yesterday, and I've been reading your opinions about it ever since.

I felt like contributing, but honestly, I have nothing to add. I liked the book very much, although I didn't drool all over it (my bf would've killed me if I'd done that literally :P ).

I have to say I agree with those of you who think [spoiler]Snape is a goody goody and killed Dumbledore because Dumby told him to[/spoiler], only because it is a very Rowling-like plot-twist - she tries to avoid the most straightforward solutions, that's one of the reasons I love H.P.-books. ;)

I loved the fact that Harry [spoiler]had grown out from the previous book's ANGST!!!11[/spoiler], and that Draco's character got developed finally.

I don't understand, though, why so many of you are whining about why there was so little of [insert favorite character] - there are already so many characters in the story, one book cannot possibly concentrate on every single one of them! I am sure that the seventh book will tell what happens to everybody, this book's purpose was to [spoiler]recount Voldy's background and clarify what exactly Harry must do in order to beat Voldy[/spoiler].

As for [spoiler]Dumbledore's death, I believe he fulfilled his task in the story, and so he was removable for dramatic effect[/spoiler].

I know I sound a bit too technical when it comes to the plotline, but I just enjoy analyzing great stories, trying to delve into what makes them as good as they are. And I must say, the storyline of Harry Potter books is one of the most unique and engaging I've ever come across. :D

[Sara]

[QUOTE=Japan][COLOR=Navy]I've been thinking about the whole Dumbledore/Snape thing.

[spoiler]Maybe Dumbledore trusting in Snape was suppose to be a defect and show that Dumbledore is still human and not some kind of god. He himself did say that he made mistakes from time to time. His trusting in Snape maybe showed that.[/spoiler]

Just a thought.[/COLOR][/QUOTE][color=#6699cc]That's something I was trying to say in my first post, but you managed to put it much more eloquently (and coherently. :))

But really, it's so much more [i]fun[/i] when [spoiler]Snape's not evil.[/spoiler][/color]

[Syk3]

First off, I know how important it is for you to jump into topics argue about something, Alex, but I'll just let you be. I understand it really has nothing to do with Harry Potter, so it's best not to fuel it further. :/

[quote name='Lore][spoiler']It kinda irked me that Harry was right about his obsessive Draco thing. I mean, okay, the Draco bit was brilliant, but the actual "entire book of Harry telling people things and no one believing him" has been done. *crooked smile* [/spoiler][/quote][spoiler]It's true that it's been done before, but.. I thought it was kind of showing Harry's character when he would jump to Draco or Snape being the ones behind it all because of how often they are on his case. This time, he actually had some information to go on, and in these times of uncertainty, refused to let them go. And really, how often is it that he actually gets it right? haha[/spoiler]

[QUOTE][color=#6699cc][spoiler]I'm still waiting for a better reason why Dumbledore trusted Snape. I always thought he had some sort of unbelievable reason for it, and I find it hard to swallow that it was because Snape "repented" for telling Voldemort about the prophecy. Surely even someone as inclined as Dumbledore to believe the best in people would have a more solid reason than easily-faked remorse?[/spoiler][/quote][/color]
[color=#6699cc][color=black][spoiler]Yeah, I remember Rowling dropping a hint that we will find out exactly why Dumbledore trusts (or trusted) Snape. I don't think that she would simply throw out the answer that he's a trusting man and all that, but rather delve into a [i]specific[/i] instance.[/spoiler][/color]
[/color][QUOTE=Japan][color=navy]I've been thinking about the whole Dumbledore/Snape thing.

[spoiler]Maybe Dumbledore trusting in Snape was suppose to be a defect and show that Dumbledore is still human and not some kind of god. He himself did say that he made mistakes from time to time. His trusting in Snape maybe showed that.[/spoiler]

Just a thought.[/color][/QUOTE]Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. Or maybe we're just led to [i]think[/i] that might be the case. I can't believe we'll have to wait another two or three years to find all this out. >.o

[Morpheus]

Since I haven't read this last page in it's entirety, it might seem that I'm jumping in, but bear with me:

[b]I find it odd that, in a book series that has a wonderful, twisted plot, that most assume that Harry will just kill Voldemort and that will be the end of it.[/b]

Seriously, these books go a lot deeper than comic book endings. A final showdown would be pointless, as we've seen that Harry just lacks the abilities to just kill a man that has masses of henchmen trained to spot and kill. Remember [spoiler]Cedric[/spoiler] in GoF? He was killed off in an instant.

[DDG]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]Since I haven't read this last page in it's entirety, it might seem that I'm jumping in, but bear with me:

[b]I find it odd that, in a book series that has a wonderful, twisted plot, that most assume that Harry will just kill Voldemort and that will be the end of it.[/b]

Seriously, these books go a lot deeper than comic book endings. A final showdown would be pointless, as we've seen that Harry just lacks the abilities to just kill a man that has masses of henchmen trained to spot and kill. Remember [spoiler]Cedric[/spoiler] in GoF? He was killed off in an instant.[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Tahoma][color=#666666]I've been thinking about that a lot myself since I finished the book(I finally got it yesterday and finished it today ^^). It does seem quite odd how most jump to the conclusion that Harry will triumph over Voldy and everyone lives happily ever after. I mean, Harry already doubts that he can really kill a man such as Voldy, who with two words and a flick of his wand can instantly kill someone. Not to mention he's got henchmen willing to risk their necks for ol' Voldy just so that ol' Voldy doesn't come after them when he dominates the wizarding world.

Mrs. Rowling definitely has something devious up her sleeve.

There's not much more I can say that hasn't already been said by others, but I might as well state a few of my opinions: [spoiler]There really wasn't as much of Snape as I wished their could have been. It was interesting to see how he made that "Unbreakable Vow" in the beginning though and I do think that he's really good but was forced to kill Dumbledore so that he didn't die. I've also got some kind of belief that Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him and it was all planned out anyway. Maybe to convince other Death Eaters just how "loyal" he really is to Voldemort, you know? So he can continue playing the double agent. Or something like that.

Concerning R.A.B., around four pages after I read the note from inside the locket, I was thinking about the people with a last name that started with the letter B. The only one that actually popped into my head was "Black", but I knew it couldn't be Sirius because, well, obviously Sirius' name starts with an "S". Then I remembered that he had a younger brother named Regulus and that Regulus was a Death Eater who was killed after leaving their ranks or something like that. I really don't know his middle name(and I'm going to look it up sooner or later) but he's the only person I really believe R.A.B. to be.[/spoiler]

And here's something I was thankful for: [spoiler]THERE WAS ONLY ONE MENTION OF S.P.E.W. IN THE ENTIRE BOOK!

I was getting so sick of Hermione constantly going on and on and on about how House Elves needed liberated...God, it was just annoying.

Dumbledore dying definitely wasn't as traumatic for me as Sirius' death was. Immediately after Sirius died I burst into tears, but for Dumbledore's death...well, I probably shed about two tears before I was over it and I didn't even shed those tears until Lupin broke down and started crying(*hugs the poor Werewolf*).

The romance in the book...actually kind of started getting on my nerves. After reading page after page about Ron "snogging' Lavendar all day long and Ginny and Dean's rocky relationship and Hermione blushing and Ron not noticing...I was just like, "Alright already. I get it. Move on with the plot already! I want more Snape and Tom Riddle!"[/spoiler]

The book was good, though not the best if you ask me. It does feel like it was kind of rushed in certain areas...a lot of things that are usually written about(like Easter and the first classes after Christmas break) were either not even mentioned or merely glanced at.

And I am wondering, [spoiler]was the fact that Lily was good at Potions and that she was one of Slughorn's favorite pupils really the "you're going to learn more about Lily Potter in book six" that Jo mentioned on her website? I mean, seriously...those bits of information were kind of...nothing at all. I thought maybe we'd learn about why its important that Lily's wand was good for charms or something.[/spoiler]

One other thing that I kind of thought about...[spoiler]you know on the binding of the books how they put "Year 5" or "Year 4"? Well, if Harry isn't going to be attending his final year at Hogwartz, can they really put "Year 7" on the binding? I mean, he's not actually going to be attending school so...its not really his seventh year at Hogwartz.[/spoiler] *shrugs*

Here's to another two years waiting for book seven(which is undoubtedly going to be massive).[/FONT][/color]

[Guest kingofmons]

spoiler: [spoiler]User was banned for this post. -Lore[/spoiler]

[Syk3]

[quote name='DDG][font=Tahoma][color=#666666]One other thing that I kind of thought about...[spoiler]you know on the binding of the books how they put "Year 5" or "Year 4"? Well, if Harry isn't going to be attending his final year at Hogwartz, can they really put "Year 7" on the binding? I mean, he's not actually going to be attending school so...its not really his seventh year at Hogwartz.[/spoiler] *shrugs*[/color'][/font][/quote][spoiler]Well, yeah, but you could also say that the years aren't necessarily those of Hogwarts. Either way, it'll be the seventh year in the Harry Potter series, because each book is over the course of a single year. I know, it's all obvious stuff when looking at another direction.. but I thought I'd mention it. Who knows, maybe Harry will go back to school, at least for a little while.[/spoiler]

I've actually been doing a little reading lately over the internet about the series on sites like MuggleNet and Lexicon, especially interviews with Rowling where she hints toward future events in the last installment. Aparently the two people who started the sites MuggleNet and The Leaky Cauldron were allowed to meet and interview J.K., which I will be referring to in this post and you can find [url="http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview.shtml"]here[/url], not only providing a few predictions, but answering some interesting background information at the same time. Throughout the interview, it's important to note that Rowling referred to the entire series as simply one book.

Here is what she had to say about including relationships in the novels, which I'm sure some of you are wondering about.

[quote=J.K. Rowling]There's a theory - this applies to detective novels, and then Harry, which is not really a detective novel, but it feels like one sometimes ? that you should not have romantic intrigue in a detective book. Dorothy L. Sayers, who is queen of the genre said ? and then broke her own rule, but said ? that there is no place for romance in a detective story except that it can be useful to camouflage other people?s motives. That's true; it is a very useful trick. I've used that on [spoiler]Percy and I?ve used that to a degree on Tonks in this book, as a red herring.[/spoiler] But having said that, I disagree inasmuch as mine are very character-driven books, and it?s so important, therefore, that we see these characters fall in love, which is a necessary part of life.

[spoiler]I really enjoyed writing the Ron/Lavender business, and the reason that was enjoyable was Ron up to this point has been quite immature compared to the other two and he kind of needed to make himself worthy of Hermione. Now, that didn't mean necessarily physical experience but he had to grow up emotionally and now he's taken a big step up. Because he's had the meaningless physical experience - let?s face it, his emotions were never deeply engaged with Lavender and he's realized that that is ultimately not what he wants, which takes him a huge emotional step forward.[/spoiler][/quote]Okay, I should say now that I am going to be using particular symbols by related information, in order to avoid continually noting that I find these to be connected in certain ways. Like what I have done below; for more information on Snape and my own predictions, look for the other dollar signs. Oh, and ES and MA are the ones who run the two sites.

[quote=$][spoiler]ES: Was Dumbledore planning to die?
JKR: [Pause.] Do you think that's going to be the big theory?
MA & ES: Yes. It?ll be a big theory.
JKR: [Pause.] Well, I don't want to shoot that one down. [A little laughter.] I have to give people hope.
MA: It goes back to the question of whether Snape is a double-double-double-triple-
JKR: [Laughs] Double-double-quadruple-to-the-power-of - yeah.
MA: ?whether this had been planned, and since Dumbledore had this knowledge of Draco the whole year, had they had a discussion that said, "Should this happen, you have to act as if it is entirely your intention to just walk forward and kill me, because if you don't, Draco will die, the Unbreakable Vow, you'll die," and so on ?
JKR: No, I see that, and yeah, I follow your line there. I can't ? I mean, obviously, there are lines of speculation I don't want to shut down. Generally speaking, I shut down those lines of speculation that are plain unprofitable. Even with the shippers. God bless them, but they had a lot of fun with it. It's when people get really off the wall ? it's when people devote hours of their time to proving that Snape is a vampire that I feel it's time to step in, because there's really nothing in the canon that supports that[/spoiler][/quote]Now I want to turn the attention toward things that we now know about what will be in book 7, and predictions that I believe have evidence to suggest such.

What do we know?
[spoiler]- By the end of the series we?ll ?have all the back story you'll need,? so any questions raised in the previous books will be answered (feel free to name as many of those as possible)
- We will find out exactly why Rowling killed off Sirius (though how she?ll present this in context, I have no idea)[/spoiler]
$ [spoiler]We will find out the specific reason why Dumbledore trusted Snape
- Wormtail AKA Peter Pettigrew has a life debt to Harry
- More about the hostility between Snape and Sirius will be explained
- We'll find out what Snape's worst fear is, and it'll be important
- We will find out exactly what Dudley saw when he was attacked by the dementors[/spoiler]
@ [spoiler]We'll learn more about Harry's scar
- We will learn more about Harry's relatives, including his grandparents (though Rowling says they aren't really important to the story)
- We will find out what happened to Sirius's motorbike
- It's very important in the plot that Harry has his mother's eyes ([/spoiler]@ [spoiler]or possibly simply that his eyes are green), and that Lily?s wand was very good for charms
- The choice between what's right and what's easy will be a pillar of the plot
- Harry's parents' profession will be a big part of the plot[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Something HUGE will be revealed about Lily Potter[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Voldemort was willing to, and had a reason to, let Lily live
- No more major characters will be introduced[/spoiler]
% [spoiler]There?s more to Petunia overhearing about dementors
- Fawkes will have a big role (note that he also has connections to Dumbledore)
- There will be no more Quidditch matches
- A member of the order will be more properly introduced
- Umbridge is further tortured in book 7 (thank God)
- Dumbledore?s inner most desires and fears are important[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]"You will know more about Dumbledore"
- Grindelwald, the dark wizard noted to have been defeated by Dumbledore in 1945 on the chocolate frog card, may come into play
- There is more to the locked room at the department of Mysteries[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]Dumbledore's family is important[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Lily ?was a popular girl,? and had other romantic interests[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Snape has been loved by someone in the past
-Voldemort may find out the full prophecy[/spoiler]
& [spoiler]The "gleam of triumph" Dumbledore supposedly showed when Harry told him how Voldemort used his blood will be explained
- There may have been others present the night Harry's parents were killed
- We find out why some people turn into ghosts and some don?t (assuming that wasn?t the information in book 5)
- Lupin will have an important role
- The very last word in the last chapter is ?scar?[/spoiler]

Predictions
$ [spoiler]Snape is actually a good guy, if Rowling is presenting information that contradicts what his actions showed in HBP, having someone on the other side to ensure that Harry reached his goal[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]Dumbledore is related to Godric Gryffindor, handed down his sword through generations[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]If not, then maybe we find out more about Aberforth, Dumbledore's brother[/spoiler]
@ [spoiler]Harry is a horcrux himself, explaining his connection to Voldemort through his scar[/spoiler]
^ [spoiler]R.A.B. is Regulus Black[/spoiler]
^ [spoiler]The heavy locket they found and couldn?t open in Black's house was a horcrux[/spoiler]
@ [spoiler]Harry will die in order to kill Voldemort[/spoiler]
% [spoiler]Lily was sent to Azkaban at one point[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Lily dated Snape before James, maybe because she felt sorry for him[/spoiler]
& [spoiler]This will turn out to play a role in causing Voldemort?s downfall[/spoiler]

^ When told that they suspected R.A.B. to be Regulus Black, Rowling had this to say:
[quote name='J.K. Rowling']Well, I think that would be, um, a fine guess.[/quote]

[Umbra II]

I know everyone is just assuming that Snape is good (or most everone) but here is indisputable proof that it wasn't simply [spoiler] Snape betraying Dumbledore:
Dumbledore was begging Snape. You don't honestly think Dumbledore would beg Snape for his life, would you? But its fits right that Dumbledore would beg Snape to kill him, doesn't it? Thats assuming Dumbledore has a plan, which of course he does. He knew about Draco's betrayal and parent problems, so how do you think he could miss something like a loyal-to-Voldemort Snape? But there are some problems with this. Someone above said that snape could continue to be a double agent. Let me ask you something: If any one but Dumbledore knew about Snape being on their side, Voldemort would find out without a problem. Who is he going to report to, then? He has no excuse to go to Hogwarts anymore, being with Voldemort all the time. The only thing I can think of is that Snape is going to help Harry. Which brings me onto my next problem. without the 7th year of training, Harry doesn't stand a chance. I hope someone will convince him to go back to school, or at least bring the next level of books with him. But right now Harry doesn't stand a chance.[/spoiler]
I noticed too that there wasn't a plot, at least not in the traditional sense, [spoiler] and all that romance seemed unimportant, not to mention that the Lupin and Tonks pairing is more than a bit unlikely. Although if she had given us information....
Finnaly, the D.A.D.A classes with Snape weren't even there except for the first one. Seriously, Slughorn took all of his glory. (Though Slughorn was pretty important to the *ahem* plot.) [/spoiler]
[spoiler] I don't care what Dumbledore had planned. I wish that he didn't have to be killed for it. And if Snape did betray Dumbledore.....CRUCIO![/spoiler]
That ends my opinoin-verging-on-a-rant.

[Syk3]

[quote name='Umbra II][spoiler']Someone above said that snape could continue to be a double agent. Let me ask you something: If any one but Dumbledore knew about Snape being on their side, Voldemort would find out without a problem. Who is he going to report to, then? He has no excuse to go to Hogwarts anymore, being with Voldemort all the time. The only thing I can think of is that Snape is going to help Harry. Which brings me onto my next problem. without the 7th year of training, Harry doesn't stand a chance. I hope someone will convince him to go back to school, or at least bring the next level of books with him. But right now Harry doesn't stand a chance.[/spoiler][/quote][spoiler]Exactly, exactly. When we say he would be a double agent, we don't mean that he'll still be going to the Order and bringing information; no one would trust him and Volemort will have already known that he has shown his true colors to them. But by working for and by Voldemort, and maybe even dropping hints to Harry without Harry knowing it's him (and you know.. that's already sounding like it would have been a much better context for the Half-Blood Prince, but there ya go), he'll be able to ensure that Harry reaches his goal. And then maybe we'll find out that the reason Dumbledore trusted him was something that would suggest his loyalty to Harry or to killing Voldemort. Subtle clues that show him to actually be a good guy were things like his hand twitching when making the vow, and at Slughorn's party when he looked almost scared when seeing Malfoy.

I have no doubt that Harry will continue to train, though I believe he has all the information he needs to take on Voldemort. He just has to perfect his technique, with things like Occlumency, Legilimency, and nonverbal spells. As for the relationships, I've already provided my views and shown you quotes from Rowling on such in my previous post.[/spoiler]

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]I thought the overall book was kinda 'meh' for reasons outlined by other people.

[spoiler]I mean, the romance stuff didn't bother me, it was stepping back and realizing the clear lack of plot apparent in ths book. The ending pissed me off, with all the corny, cliche crap left to slog through. I also thing Dumbledore's death was pretty minimal; I mean, one would think that someone as good as Dumbledore would be able to perform some kind of magic without a wand.

And I found it incredibly hard to get into for the first ... oh, say 200 pages. It was a bunch of inconsequential Ministry crap. What does it matter, who the minister is? Bah.[/spoiler][/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Syk3]
Predictions
$ [spoiler]Snape is actually a good guy, if Rowling is presenting information that contradicts what his actions showed in HBP, having someone on the other side to ensure that Harry reached his goal[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]Dumbledore is related to Godric Gryffindor, handed down his sword through generations[/spoiler]
# [spoiler]If not, then maybe we find out more about Aberforth, Dumbledore's brother[/spoiler]
@ [spoiler]Harry is a horcrux himself, explaining his connection to Voldemort through his scar[/spoiler]
^ [spoiler]R.A.B. is Regulus Black[/spoiler]
^ [spoiler]The heavy locket they found and couldn?t open in Black's house was a horcrux[/spoiler]
@ [spoiler]Harry will die in order to kill Voldemort[/spoiler]
% [spoiler]Lily was sent to Azkaban at one point[/spoiler]
* [spoiler]Lily dated Snape before James, maybe because she felt sorry for him[/spoiler]
& [spoiler]This will turn out to play a role in causing Voldemort?s downfall[/spoiler]

[color=darkslateblue] [spoiler] I was just wondering, that is Snape and Dumbledore are skilled in occlumency, could they have been secretly talking to each other during the long stare before Snape killed Dumbledore? I'm shooting in the dark here, because I haven't re-read OotP in a very long while, and I don't really know if they can mind-talk to each other.

And yes, a fine guess indeed. I hope it is Regulus Black. And speaking of which, I love your prediction with the locket being one of the horcruxes. :D It would fit in nicely with Regulus being R.A.B. I'm also fond of the Harry being a horcrux thing (my friend actually started bouncing up and down while she was reading the part about the horcruxes and grabbed my arm shouting 'HARRY IS A HORCRUX! OMG!'), which would explain his scar, and possibly why the color of his eyes are important.

I do not think Dumbledore is a heir of Godric Gryffindor, but Harry. I don't really want him to be the heir of Gryffindor, but if I had to choose one character, I'd choose Harry. *would die of happiness if Neville was heir, even though it will probably never happen*

I, too, am guessing that Harry might die. But then comes to mind what Dumbledore said about prophecies in HBP, which I thought was cool. My mind is split 50/50 as to whether Harry will die or not.

And I think Snape had hatred for Gryffindors deep enough that he would never go out with Lily Evans, even if she offered. But it might explain James' serious hating of Snape and why he was such a jerk to him. James' saving of Snape's life really was just him being himself, it's extremely possible James really hated Snape.

As for Voldemort's downfall, I think Peter Pettigrew will play a huge role in it. I'm guessing he'll provide some information...or my better guess that he'll die saving Harry from a near-death grip with Voldemort, leaving Harry another chance to defeat Voldemort. I'm sure Lupin will have something to do with what Peter does, seeing as Lupin and Peter are the remaining Marauders.

And my extreme hope for the seventh book: One of the first chapters will tell, in present tense, the events that happened the day James and Lily were murdered. I will go insane with excitement if JK Rowling does this. [/spoiler][/color]

[Ozymandius Jones]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]There's a person over at LJ with a very, very interesting theory on the nature of one of the horcruxes, and it actually makes sense, I think....

[quote name='R.J. Anderson, aka synaesthete7][spoiler']In which it is proposed that the basin full of potion that Harry and Dumbledore found in the cave was itself a horcrux, and that the locket lying in the bottom of said basin was merely a red herring, planted there by Dumbledore to prevent Harry realizing what was really going on. It is further proposed that Dumbledore had been aware of this horcrux and its nature for years, and had long ago come to the conclusion that in order to destroy it he would have to drink it, necessitating that someone kill him in order to complete the destruction of said horcrux. It is finally proposed that Dumbledore was keeping Snape in reserve for this very task of killing him, and that in Book Seven Snape will be proven to have been acting solely on Dumbledore's orders with a view to Voldemort's ultimate defeat, and is therefore not guilty of murder or betrayal (in this case, anyway).[/spoiler][/quote]

Her theory is [URL=http://www.livejournal.com/users/synaesthete7/169704.html]here,[/URL] and it actually makes sense, because, even though by this particular point in the book I was reading a bit fast and may have missed something, I sat there thinking....[spoiler]"Why did Dumbledore have to [i]drink[/i] it when he could've dumped it into the water?".[/spoiler] So...yeah.

Also, did the [spoiler]Inferi remind any of you of Tolkien's Dead Marshes?[/spoiler][/COLOR]

[Syk3]

[quote name='Lunox][color=darkslateblue][spoiler] I was just wondering, that is Snape and Dumbledore are skilled in occlumency, could they have been secretly talking to each other during the long stare before Snape killed Dumbledore? I'm shooting in the dark here, because I haven't re-read OotP in a very long while, and I don't really know if they can mind-talk to each other.[/spoiler'][color=black][/quote][/color][/color]
[color=darkslateblue][color=#000000][spoiler]Well, I'm not sure how long a stare it really was. It seemed to me that Snape just sort of went up to him with a strong hatred in his face, and Dumbledore was saying "Severus, please.." and then Snape killed him. So while I don't think they had a conversation in their heads, I do think it's entirely possible for Dumbledore to have repeatedly said to kill him. I'm guessing that they would have discussed this scenario earlier, and that along with the quick occlumency between them told Snape what he had to do. And considering how Snape has said that you have to be completely ready to use an unforgivable curse, that would explain why he had to have such a look of revulsion, so put himself in the mindset. Of course, this is all speculation.[/color][/color]
[color=darkslateblue][color=#000000][/color][/color]
[color=darkslateblue][color=#000000]And I have another theory that goes something like.. you know how Dumbledore always discredits Voldemore for not understanding the full picture, putting so much emphasis on death instead of love? Well, maybe that's how Snape convinced both that he's on their side, except that to explain it through love is much more full-proof, for lack of a better word. Voldemort would have been pleased if he had simply given an explanation, a good explanation, for each suspicion, but Dumbledore would have needed much more to trust him and take his trust for granted.[/spoiler][/color]

[quote][spoiler]And yes, a fine guess indeed. I hope it is Regulus Black. And speaking of which, I love your prediction with the locket being one of the horcruxes. :D It would fit in nicely with Regulus being R.A.B. I'm also fond of the Harry being a horcrux thing (my friend actually started bouncing up and down while she was reading the part about the horcruxes and grabbed my arm shouting 'HARRY IS A HORCRUX! OMG!'), which would explain his scar, and possibly why the color of his eyes are important.[/spoiler][/quote][color=black]Heh, well, as much as I would have liked to come up with that prediction, I'm afraid that I read that somewhere (can't remember where), but it was indeed a great idea.[/color]

[quote][spoiler]I do not think Dumbledore is a heir of Godric Gryffindor, but Harry. I don't really want him to be the heir of Gryffindor, but if I had to choose one character, I'd choose Harry. *would die of happiness if Neville was heir, even though it will probably never happen*[/spoiler][/quote][color=black]I guess I should show you the sorce of that prediction, which, unlike the other one, I did come up with.[/color]

[color=#000000][quote=#]ES: Dumbledore is unrivaled in his knowledge of magic ? [/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: Mmhm.[/color]
[color=#000000]ES: Where did he learn it all?[/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: I see him primarily as someone who would be self-taught. However, he in his time had access to superb teachers at Hogwarts, so he was educated in the same way that everyone else is educated. Dumbledore's family would be a profitable line of inquiry, more profitable than sweet wrappers.[/color]
[color=#000000]MA: His family? [/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: Family, yes.[/color]
[color=#000000]MA: Should we talk about that a little more?[/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: No. But you can! [Laughter.][/color]
[color=#000000]MA: What about Harry's family ? his grandparents ? were they killed?[/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: No. This takes us into more mundane territory. As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.[/color]
[color=#000000]MA: That sort of shuts down Heir of Gryffindor [theories], as well.[/color]
[color=#000000]JKR: [Pause.] Yeah. Well - yeah. [/color]
[color=#000000]MA: Another one bites the dust.[/quote][/color]

[quote][spoiler]And I think Snape had hatred for Gryffindors deep enough that he would never go out with Lily Evans, even if she offered. But it might explain James' serious hating of Snape and why he was such a jerk to him. James' saving of Snape's life really was just him being himself, it's extremely possible James really hated Snape.[/spoiler][/quote][color=black][spoiler]That's true that there's a lot against that couple, yeah.. I mean, not only does Snape hate Gryffindors, but he hates muggle-borns as well. According to Rowling, though, he has been loved by someone, and Lily has had other interests, so I was trying to put two and two together. Ah well.[/spoiler][/color]

[color=black][quote name='R.J. Anderson, aka synaesthete7][spoiler']In which it is proposed that the basin full of potion that Harry and Dumbledore found in the cave was itself a horcrux, and that the locket lying in the bottom of said basin was merely a red herring, planted there by Dumbledore to prevent Harry realizing what was really going on. It is further proposed that Dumbledore had been aware of this horcrux and its nature for years, and had long ago come to the conclusion that in order to destroy it he would have to drink it, necessitating that someone kill him in order to complete the destruction of said horcrux. It is finally proposed that Dumbledore was keeping Snape in reserve for this very task of killing him, and that in Book Seven Snape will be proven to have been acting solely on Dumbledore's orders with a view to Voldemort's ultimate defeat, and is therefore not guilty of murder or betrayal (in this case, anyway).[/spoiler][/quote][/color]
[color=#000000]Hmm.. that is an interesting theory, but there are a few holes, I think. [spoiler]First of all, Voldemort is very careful with his horcruxes; he wouldn't want them to fall into the wrong hands, much less be put in a position where it's more likely that it would be destroyed. And if he, Dumbledore, really did know about this for a long period of time, it wouldn't have taken as long to get to it, and he wouldn't have put Harry into such danger. But.. I suppose it would explain why Dumbledore would want to be killed. But how would he have gotten the locket under the substance, and why sign it R.A.B. to throw Harry off? Or.. eh, to put him in the direction of other horcruxes? I dunno, I'm just not that fond of it.[/spoiler][/color]

[color=black][quote name='Ozymandius Jones][color=darkorange][spoiler]"Why did Dumbledore have to [i]drink[/i] it when he could've dumped it into the water?".[/spoiler'][/color][/quote][/color][color=#000000][spoiler]That would have been the magic of the substance, I think. If you tried to pour it out anywhere else except into your mouth, it wouldn't have poured out. *shrug*[/spoiler][/color]
[/color]

[Morpheus]

Here are some of my predictions:
-The last line will be something to the tune of "it's gone" "what?" "my scar."
-[spoiler]James and Harry are descendents of Griffindor. Voldemort dididn't want to kill Lilly because she was not in the bloodline. He wanted to eliminate it. He only killed her after she defended Harry.
-I think(this is kind of out there) that it is possible that Hagrid gave Harry the scar as a sort of alert system. Whenever Dumbledore senses Voldemort is near, he makes Harry's scar hurt. Just a thought.[/spoiler]

[Syk3]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]Here are some of my predictions:
-The last line will be something to the tune of "it's gone" "what?" "my scar."
-[spoiler]James and Harry are descendents of Griffindor. Voldemort dididn't want to kill Lilly because she was not in the bloodline. He wanted to eliminate it. He only killed her after she defended Harry.
-I think(this is kind of out there) that it is possible that Hagrid gave Harry the scar as a sort of alert system. Whenever Dumbledore senses Voldemort is near, he makes Harry's scar hurt. Just a thought.[/spoiler][/QUOTE][spoiler]Heh, well.. I think you're going back a little further into the Harry Potter story, and overlooking information that we already know to be true. In the first few books, I might have agreed with you about the Gryffindor bloodline, because we didn't know why Voldemort was after Harry. But, if you recall, there was a prophecy made by Trelawny that said that there would be a boy born who would have the power to destroy him, and obviously Voldemort saw this as a threat. So that's why he went to kill him -- to stop the prophecy, not because of his bloodline or anything like that. Besides, how cliche would that have been? lol I believe that he killed James as well because he saw him as a threat, since James was a full-grown wizard who would do anything in his power to stop him.

As for Hagrid giving Harry his scar, or rather, his scar occuring because of anything other than Voldemort's attack, I find that to be absolutely rediculous. How would Dumbledore create this alert system? Why wouldn't he have told Harry this before? How does Dumbledore know when Voldemort is feeling particularly strong or close? There's really nothing in the books to suggest this as far as I'm concerned.[/spoiler]

[Zeta]

Morpheous......I direct this part to your second prediction. If I am not mistaken we have been given a clear cut answer to where Harry's scar came from. From Dumbledore and others if I am not mistaken. No need to go come up with predictions for it, heh.

Having finished the book a few days ago I must say....I am still in a bit of shock. Great book, yet very sad, at least for me. :animecry:

Snape is good.

[spoiler] We go all the way back to the Unbreakable Vow chapter.Snapes hand flinches, obviously this concerns him in some way, seeing as how he knows of the plan.
*Fast forward to the argument that Hagrid mentions overhearing between Snape and Dumbledore. This right here is where I believe it all came into play. Snape has just told Dumbledore what he has all ready suspected about Malfoy and the Vow that Snape has taken. Dumbledore doesn't want any of his students to be hurt/killed and therefore orders Snape to follow through with his Vow. Not only will this protect Malfoy, but it will also ensure a good guy in [i]very[/i] good standings with Voldemort. Just in case the argument part is a little hard to understand, here is a simplified version of the argument itself.[i] "Dumdledore all ready knew, and Snape confided in him about the situation. And my guess is Snape told Dumbledore he was not going to kill him, which started the argument, and ultimately having DUmbledore order Snape to follow the Vow to save Malfoys life"[/i])
*And when the time comes for Snape to follow through with the Vow, Dumbledore's pleading is not for his own life, but for the life of Malfoy (Malfoy was obviously not going to do it, and would thus be killed by Voldemort if Snape didn't go through with the Vow).
*Now onto Snapes escape. Just look at the duel between Harry and Snape. Snape is [i]still[/i] giving him lessons on how to stand up to Voldemort, telling him he will never get anywhere if he doesn't learn to close his mind. Why would a loyal supporter keep racking this into his head, even after killing Dumbledore, a way to defeat Voldemort.
*Now, people will be going "but oh, no one else in the Order knows he is still a good guy, so how can he give them information, yadda yadda yadda." Simple. He doesn't give them information. He makes it possible for Harry to continue on with the quest for the Horcruxes in subtle ways. He makes sure that others do not interfere with Harry's path to Voldemort, and Voldemort alone.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] Harry being a Horcrux.....is a very cool idea, but I don't think it will actually be. The Horcruxes have to be destroyed in order for them not to work. There will be two paths here with this. 1) Harry will realize this before facing Voldemort and will take his life, and hopefully have someone else destroy Voldemort. BUt the problem with this is is that the prophecy plain says this " 2) Harry will realize this before or after facing Voldemort, defeats him, and then takes his own life. I myself don't like the idea of Harry having to commit suicide to destroy the last Horcrux. I just don't think JKR will actually write a suicide in the books, *shrug*. That is the main reason why I don't think this will come to pass. And anyways, I believe it is all spelled out all ready.[/spoiler]

Horcruxes

[spoiler]*We have the ring, Riddles diary, the lockey, Hufflepuffs cup, A possible Ravenclaw/Gryfindor object,a mysterious number 6, and Voldemort himself as number 7.
*The Gryfindor object (as far as Dumbledore is aware) is safely in his posession (the sword from CoS.)
*And Dumbledore says that Voldie entered Harry's house that night with the intent to make his last Horcrux after killing him, implying that he has at least 5 of them all ready finished (since Voldie himself is one of them). And if he was planning on making his 6th [i]after[/i] his death, how would he become the Horcrux at all? Remember, Harry was going to be dead. So how would Harry be the horcrux is what I ask you.
*Dumbledore then goes on to say he believes the 6th is to be Voldie's snake Nagini.Makes sense. He wasn't able to get his last Horcrux with the death of Harry, and therefore makes it when he kills the dude in the beginning of GoF(a significant death by the fact that it is his death which ultimately begins his track back to his body and power). He has had no chance to make Harry a horcrux, and still has one horcrux remaining. Why not make a pet he seems to "love" (for lack of better word) and a symbol that shows the Slytherin connection as Dumble so speaks.[/spoiler]

So, that is all I really have to say. A lot of what I have said has probably all ready been said, seeing as how I haven't really read anything earlier than a few posts on this page, heh. So if it is repeats, just ignore it. ^_^;;

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Syk3][spoiler]Trelawny that said that there would be a boy born who would have the power to destroy him, and obviously Voldemort saw this as a threat [/spoiler'] [/quote]
[spoiler]Maybe the boy was to be born of a griffindor.

I'd say either James or Lily are #6. With Harry alive, he had to act fast as his power drained.[/spoiler]

[Syk3]

[quote name='Morpheus][spoiler']Maybe the boy was to be born of a griffindor.[/spoiler][/quote][spoiler]No. He was to be born of people who have thrice defied Voldemort. Even if he was of Gryffindor descent, Voldemort had no idea because he was going on the prophecy (which didn't mention it at all). Besides, I've already given evidence from a quote with Rowling that says Harry is not related to Gryffindor. So.. yeah.[/spoiler]

[quote][spoiler]I'd say either James or Lily are #6. With Harry alive, he had to act fast as his power drained.[/spoiler][/QUOTE][spoiler]#6? [i]Horcrux?[/i] But they were dead, he killed them, he wouldn't want to do that to pieces that held part of his soul. o_o His power was never drained until he attacked Harry, which took a split second and he was "ripped from his body," and was less than a spirit, meaning he couldn't hold a wand, much less perform any sort of magic.[/spoiler]

[Morpheus]

[spoiler]

Now that I think about it, Peter Pettigrew is the 6th horcrux. JKR hinted that someone else was there the night Lily and James died. Pettigrew was only supposed to be a temporary horcrux. Voldemort thought ahead enough to realize that he might not kill Harry, so he needed a backup plan. When Voldemort went into hiding Pettigrew came up with a plan to dissapear and take out Sirius with him. There he waited as the Weasleys rat until Voldemort rose again.

[/spoiler]

[Zeta]

[spoiler] Ehhh....I myself doubt that. Voldemore went into the Potters house that night with the expressed purpose to kill Harry and he had no doubt in his mind that he would succeed. The most powerful dark wizard of his time being defeated by a mere baby would not have crossed his mind.[/spoiler]

[Morpheus]

[spoiler]But he knew Harry was the one that was supposed to destroy him. He wanted to kill Harry, but he knew that the prophecy said otherwise.[/spoiler]

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1][spoiler]The Heir to Gryffindor theory has already been shot down by JK herself. I'm glad it was anyway, because it would make Harry some extreme god-mod, which I would hate. Just because the kid defied Voldy doesn't mean he's all the sudden a descendant of Gryffindor.[/spoiler][/SIZE]

[Syk3]

[quote name='Morpheus][spoiler']But he knew Harry was the one that was supposed to destroy him. He wanted to kill Harry, but he knew that the prophecy said otherwise.[/spoiler][/quote][spoiler]In the book, it almost said word for word that Voldemort believed that he was fulfilling the prophecy by killing Harry because it said that one had to kill the other, lol. He would make the last horcrux after doing this because it was a memorable death. He had complete and utter confidence in what he set out to do, and if he had forseen it, he [i]wouldn't[/i] have gone. But if he [i]did[/i] forsee it, and [i]did[/i] go, there would be absolutely no point to make a temperary horcrux because he would have already had plenty. It's not like you need 7 to make the spell work; Voldemort was ambitious and saw 7 as a powerful number.[/spoiler] One of the things about making predictions is that you have to have substantial evidence to back up your claim.

[Dagger]

I ended up buying the British version of HBP at Narita Airport and reading it on the plane back. It went by surprisingly quickly, even for a Harry Potter book--I had counted on it lasting me most of the flight, and we had barely crossed the International Date Line when I finished. Ah well. I've skimmed many of the posts in this thread, but I haven't read all of them in-depth, and I apologize for that. Nevertheless, I figured I'd make a few comments.

Plot & Voldie:

[spoiler]I had some issues with the overall structure. I thought the plot was more veiled in secrecy than it needed to be, particularly in regards to Malfoy's actions; I would have appreciated a greater focus on Malfoy's internal struggles. One part that rang slightly false to me was the scene between Malfoy and Dumbledore at the end--while I appreciated the dramatic context, I thought Malfoy's explanations of how he had pulled it off seemed a bit forced (i.e. all too obviously inserted at that point for the purpose of edifying the reader) and too detective story-esque.

Basically, I felt that JKR tried to tie up the mystery aspects of the plot in the same way as she had in previous books, such as POA--however, the goals & storyline in this book were quite different, so I think she should have doled out the revelations in some other fashion.

At some point about three-quarters of the way through the book, it occurred to me that very little had happened. At the same time, I felt that the book could have been improved by being longer. I'm not wholly sure if that makes sense, haha.

One thing that particularly bothered me was Voldemort's noticeable absence, flashbacks aside. Don't get me wrong--I thought the parts about his childhood were by far some of the best segments in the book. However, this is the only installment of the HP series, as far as I remember, in which the man himself has not made an appearance.

To me, that made the conflict between Death Eaters and Muggles & regular wizards seem less immediate and less real/urgent than it would have been if she at least gave us a glimpse of Voldemort orchestrating things from behind the scenes. It's far more compelling to see him interacting with other characters than to simply have people talk about him a lot, even though much was revealed about his background, and the concept of Horcruxes kicks ass in so many ways.

I suppose this comes back to my point about length--at times I almost had the feeling that I was receiving a synopsis of the book rather than the book itself, due to the fact that so many important things were summarized rather than shown.[/spoiler]

Relationships & sap:

[spoiler]I'm slightly taken aback by all the accusations of sappiness, i.e. in Ginny & Harry's break-up scene and in the ending in general. While the romance is something new, the HP series has always had that type of "sap." If anything, it's more necessary now because the books have gotten so much darker.

As for the romance--Lupin/Tonks felt [i]extremely[/i] contrived to me. I'm not objecting to this as a slash fangirl, haha--and it doesn't matter anyway, since Sirius has kicked the bucket--but I felt that both Lupin and Tonks were somewhat minimized as characters by being thrown together with virtually no real visible development of the relationship. I know many fans feel differently, but I would have appreciated an all or nothing approach to the whole romance thing--either spend a lot of time making the relationship believable and sympathetic, or leave it to the fanfic writers.

Obviously there are cases in which this doesn't have to hold true--Bill/Fleur was executed perfectly, as far as I'm concerned. I could honestly hug JKR for what she did with Fleur. <3

I had no problems with Ron/Hermione, as she's been working toward that almost since Book 1. I thought Harry/Ginny seemed a bit sudden and could have used more development, but I was able to swallow it, since Ginny has become a rather awesome character. Although I have to admit that Harry's agonizing about "betraying Ron" was more comical than anything else, heh.[/spoiler]

The new characters:

[spoiler]I disliked both of them and felt that both were rather unnecessary--even though Sluggie did have a clear purpose in the story. I wouldn't have minded as much if one or both had at least been mentioned in passing or had cameos in previous books. In fairness, I loved the opening chapter with the Prime Minister--I thought it made for a nice change of pace and set things up well for how the war would impact the Muggle world. However, I was disappointed that she never really followed up on it.[/spoiler]

Snape & Malfoy & Harry:

[spoiler]HBP has made me go from "I want to be a Malfoy fangirl, but I can't in good conscience support the canon version of the character" to "OMG DRACO 4-EVA!!!111!!!" With Sirius permanently gone and Lupin relegated to a pathetically tiny and almost insulting supporting role, Malfoy is by far my new favorite character in the series. I also love Narcissa.

manofaction!Harry is such a welcome change. That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter. It warms the heart to see how competent and determined he has become since OotP.

In my mind, there's no question that Snape is still Dumbledore's man. JKR presented too much evidence on the opposite side for it to possibly be true, if you know what I mean.[/spoiler]

Favorite scenes:

[spoiler]My absolute favorite scene is the one in which Harry sees Malfoy crying in the bathroom, and--well, you know what happens after that. It genuinely horrified me, more so than anything else in the series so far. Harry's initial reaction was described well, although I thought she could have dwelt a little more on how he later dealt with his guilt. I have to admit that I kind of hated Harry in that one scene... goes to show where my sympathies truly lie, I suppose.

I also loved the scene in which Fleur reaffirms her determination to wed Bill as soon as possible. It was at once funny and touching and did a superb job of adding depth to her character in merely a few lines. Lastly, I liked Dumbledore's send-off at the very end. After the annoyingly rushed and (in my opinion) gratuitous character death in OotP, it was nice of her to linger on Dumbledore and give the reader some real time to grieve. The description of the funeral made me a little watery-eyed, even though I've never been especially attached to Dumbledore. Oh, and of course the Harry force-feeding Dumbledore segment was nothing short of brilliant. Almost forgot that one.[/spoiler]

I'm going to have to re-read this one at some point to see what I really think of it. My main quibbles are structure-related, as I mentioned in the paragraphs under Plot & Voldie.

~Dagger~