Bullying: Tough Love?

[Guest Faust]

[center][b][u]First Post[/center][/b][/u]
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[size=1]Hello, all. I've read that introductions, for the most part, should be kept to a minimum. Let me just say that I've been a member of several message boards over the past two or three years and, surfing one day, this one caught my attention, as it looks to be one of the better-run boards out there. This was confirmed for me after a computer bug skewed my first attempt at writing this topic and [b]Dagger[/b] responded quickly and politely (thanks again!). Anyway, I suppose that's enough. On to the topic.
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Almost every student to attend an elementary, middle, or high school is familiar with the concept of bullying. Some kids walk away unscathed from the experience, while others are tormented daily. Bullying is not restricted to school, however. Peers, parents, brothers/sisters, and almost anyone else can be a bully to someone, whether it be at school, work, or the home.

But is bullying really that bad? Some parents and teachers consider bullying a rite-of-passage, one that everyone must go through. By being picked on, a child could learn to stand up for him/herself and fight back. This would strengthen them for challenges to be faced later on in life.

However, other parents and officials believe the opposite. By being secluded and bullied as a child, a person can grow into a fearful, withdrawn adult. These people often become doormats, afraid of anyone who holds a position of power over them, never gaining the courage to stand up for themselves.

What do you think? Aruments have gone back and forth on both sides and, so far, no conclusions have been reached. Personally, I haven't decided. That probably sounds hypocritical after asking others of their opinions, but I really don't know. On one hand, I've met people who were ridiculed and even attacked almost daily from bullies, and they certainly have the description of the timid, fearful person written of above. On the other hand, I've done my fair share of brotherly-bullying to my sibling. Every time he'd shut up and take it, I'd ridicule him for not defending himself. One day my mother got a call from his middle school. A bully, who had been picking on him for months, had tried to beat on my brother, who had thrown him off and slugged him in the face. On the way home, he'd said it was because of what I'd taught him. However, I'm not so naïve to not realise that he could have also done it only to stop the prodding from me. All this has put me in a bit of a quandry. It's been three years since I've stopped bullying my brother (partly because he's not so little anymore), but I still don't know how it affected him. What do you guys think?[/size]

[Rick Hunter]

I'll make this somewhat brief....bullying in any case basically is wrong. I understand the argument that some may have that it strengthens a person. But from a perspective of both sides of being a bully and being bullied. It only leads to resentment and bottle up anger which is never good for a human being.

Perhaps in some ways what you did for your brother was out of love but *shrugs* not every person is the same. Some people take being bullied on constructively while other people don't know how to handle things so well. Take the Columbine incident and also the one with the Native American in those cases usually the cause of those horrible events were from bullying and becoming a loner. I don't think we want to create menaces to society from bullying. So much for this being brief *rollseyes*

[Godelsensei]

If people had enough respect for others and humanity at large to simply not bully any one, no one would need to be "prepared" for it.

That said, bullying some one is different from being "tough", if you will, on your younger sibling. My parents cut my sister a lot more slack than I do, so it may seem like I'm being awful, but I don't ell her she's a worthless piece of crap or hurt her physically.

If you're a bully, you're a jackass, plain and simple. There's no getting around it. It's as simple as that.

[James]

[color=#332E1D][font=franklin gothic medium]People who think that it's a "rite-of-passage" are probably the same kind of people who think that boys need to hunt deer to become true men. In other words, they're coming from a backward and asenine place. lol

I don't know how bullying can ever be considered a good thing. Yes, kids should probably have some challenges in their lives to give them some perspective. Sometimes negative things can have positive longterm consequences. But...bullying? I don't know. I experienced the usual stuff in school, but nothing extremely negative or terrible. The negative experiences that I [i]did [/i]have probably only served to teach me that some people are incredibly shallow and/or stupid. But they didn't have a profound effect on me, other than confirming to me that I personally would never want to behave that way.

Some kids go through absolute hell with this type of thing and in some cases, it does lead to violence (whether suicide or something like Columbine). So, I don't view it as having any kind of healthy or positive side effects. Different kids will react differently to bullying and some will obviously go too far. That's not to say that something else in life won't trigger such reactions, but still, I can't really think of any time where bullying has a positive outcome.

So, no, I don't think that bullying has a beneficial effect and I don't think I could ever view it as "tough love". Tough love is about doing things that are in the best interests of someone - belittling them or physically hurting them wouldn't count, I don't think.[/color][/font]

[Sandy]

I whole-heartedly agree with previous posters. Bullying has absolutely no good sides in it, it does nothing good to either the victim or the bully.

Sure, some kids might say they enjoy bullying others, that it makes them feel superior and strong, but I believe it only enforces the bad feeling they have inside.

Same goes with the victims, they might grow up to be stronger persons because of that, but they will always carry the scars within them. Many aren't even that lucky, they become introverted or scared or paranoid or skeptical, or in worst case take their own life (or even the lives of innocent others).

The talk about bullying being a "rite-of-passage" that everybody must endure is total b.s., in my opinion. Nobody should endure ridiculing or violence or social isolation - they only cause problems in the future.

Although I loath bullies and bullying, I don't think it's quite the same between siblings, because if you live with somebody for few decades you form a special bond. Surely siblings fight, they might even hurt each other seriously, but as long as they can also play with each other, have fun and care for each other, it's more acceptable.

Of course it isn't necessary that siblings hit each other or give each other hard time, it's just not as detrimental as bullying in school or elsewhere.

Oh, and welcome to the OtakuBoards, Faust! You'll surely like it here. ;D

[Guest Sean]

[quote name='James']some people are incredibly shallow and/or stupid.[/quote]

[FONT=Arial]Amen to that.

My school is pretty much ripe with people trying to boss others around, put others down and so-on and so-forth, and well, I think we have one of those teachers that think it's a rite-of-passage. That teacher is the teacher we are meant to go to if we are getting any trouble, which is almost constantly.

Anyway, bullying is completley wrong, and can leave people scarred for the rest of their lives, in no way is it a rite-of-passage. Yes perhaps getting told of for god knows what else can be good for character building but bullying isn't good for anyone.[/FONT]

[Ryo the Tactician]

I hate bullying as much as I hate "initation rites" - aka hazing.

I always told myself I would never let myself get bullied for my intelligence, or hazed, and so far, I have not had the chance to see if I could pull myself through on that promise (to myself). The truth is, no bully is bullying some kid or person smaller than himself in order to make them stronger, so they'll learn to "stand up for themsevles." They're doing it to form a fake sense of superiority. Aka inferiority complex.

So I can't see how bullying could be any more than "invoking the desire to kick the bully's butt" when it comes to..whatever.

~RtT

[Sapphire Flare]

Bullying is fun. :animesmil

Or, if you're the one being bullied just poke them in the chest alot and be like: IF UGLINESS WERE BRICKS, YOU'D BE THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA!

I don't know what you mean by bullying, but if you mean making fun of someone behind their back and ruining their reputation, everyone does that. And everyone has it done to them, its a natural thing for some people to hate you and some people to like you. But if you couldn't care any less, then people will have no choice but to like you. :]

Compliment people, it confuses them.

[Ryo the Tactician]

Well Sapphire, when we say bullying, I think we're talking more about physical and "in your face" bullying then what you said. That's hurtful gossip and rumors, and I don't think "everyone does it" makes it any better. You do have a point - it's inevitable that some people will not like you, and others will. I don't know about hatred though, I think that's a little strong. I know some people that absolutedly nobody hates - they're just too amiable.

~RtT

[Godelsensei]

Ostracizing some one and rumor-spreading are both forms of bullying. Didn't you ever see those videos in elementary school?

They're both malicious and belittling and, therein, mean.

[Morpheus]

Anyone that agrees with any form of bullying should watch Bowling for Columbine. It really shows first hand how horrible bullying is. 13 innocent (used loosely) people died because a group of guys called unpopular kids "fags". "Everybody does it" is comepletely correct. But look at the outcome of a mindset built on "Everybody does it".

On a slightly lighter note, It's terribly ironic that the majority of bullies enjoy $5.15 an hour for their entire lives while those that were picked on include Trey Parker and Matt Stone, Creators of the most successful show in basic cable history, South Park.

Every day someone has something bad to say about me. A swift thought of "Bumbling idiot" makes me feel superior. I already thought they were stupid. Just hilarious reinforcement I guess. So much for "Rite of Passage".

[Manic Webb]

You know, I never had much of an experience with bullies in school. I got a few nicknames involving my last name (Webb), like Webster or Spider Web, but I learned to embrace being called Kevin Webster. It's a lot better than Kevster...

Then again, I'm a heavy-set black guy living in the suburbs. So yeah. Not much of an issue at school.

Most of my bullying came from my oldest brother. Recently, when he got out of prison (yeah, I know. Bully to prison. Sad, isn't it?), he told me the only reason he was so hard on me when I was younger was to toughen me up. I honestly don't believe him, though, since half of our fights (did I mention he's nearly 6 years older than me?) came from him attacking me out of nowhere. I always got along with our step-mom and step-brother, and he hated their guts simply because, well, our dad wasn't with our mom anymore. He'd see me getting along with them, and he'd usually go out of his way to tell me they're [i]not[/i] my family.

Before I go on, let me just get to the point about my brother: He's a jerk.

Calling bullying "tough love" is a stretch. For it to be tough love, wouldn't [i]love[/i] have to be involved? I'm willing to bet that 99% of the time, schoolyard bullies pick on people they don't like simply because they just don't like them.

It's not all fisticuffs and and wedgies, either. There are also intellectual bullies, and I've seen quite a few tear into my peers. My high school had two lunch periods, and when my usual clique had a different lunch from me, I had to start hanging out with my frend Alex, and his group of friends. They were intellectual snobs. I'm not just talking about people who make fun of idiots who lack common sense. These guys liked to lord around and flaunt their superiority. I remember when two of them got in a car accident in the school parking lot. The next day, the other party confronted them during lunch to decide whose fault the accident was. These friends of Alex actually got in their faces and said, and I quote, "What you have to understand is that we are your intellectual superiors." A fight almost broke out, and I refused to defend them or their douchbaggery.

God, I hated them. I was a nerd, so I was safe from their wrath.

Bullies are really nothing more than people who are incapable of asserting themselves without making other people feel worse about themselves-- or physically.

Hm. Anybody want to throw away that heavy weight I just lifted off of my chest?

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='Morpheus']Anyone that agrees with any form of bullying should watch Bowling for Columbine. It really shows first hand how horrible bullying is. 13 innocent (used loosely) people died because a group of guys called unpopular kids "fags". "Everybody does it" is comepletely correct. But look at the outcome of a mindset built on "Everybody does it".[/quote]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=#CC3366][b]I agree with Morpheus and everyone else that said they were against bullying. It can only result in violence and destruction. Saying that gossip is right, just because it's supposedly "common" does not mean it doesn't hurt people or give someone a bad name. You can seriously put a mark on someone. I've definately been both, so I know both sides of the story. It might seem "fun" when your on the side of bullying, but what you don't realize is how badly you might be hurting the person your talking about.

I remember one time when I was in middleschool there was a stupid rumour going on about me in school that went to the principal and she almost expelled me over it. An adult believing in a rumour! That was partly the principal's fault, (being how stupid she is) and had no proof of me ever doing such a thing. All because some kids spread a silly rumour because they were bored one day. And what did this result? How was this fun? How did this make their lives better? What good did this cause me? Nothing.

So it goes to show you, nothing GOOD can come out of bullying. You don't want things to happen like Columbine either, and yes most the time it's the kids fault for being cruel to one person. It happens in a lot of schools, and you never know when someone may snap. Everyone who bullys someone in highschool obviously has a big ego and will realise the world doesn't work that way. Your not always the boss. There will always be someone above you, and you can't always have things the way you want.

Simple anwser to this question is no I do not think bullying is "tough love". I definately don't think everyone has equal shares either, some get bullied more then others. The people who do it or talk bad about others are just doing that to hide their own insecurities and end up making them look stupid. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/b]

[Fall]

[font=Verdana][size=2]As much as I don't like bullying and seeing someone being stood-over just because they're smaller or somethin', I have to admit that I've done a good share of bullying.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=2]In Year 9 and 10, I used to get a bit carried away with my mates. I wasn't a "chonic bully" or whatever, I didn't do it intentionally, as in I didn't go to school thinking "I'm gonna pick on this kid today".[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Me and my mates were a pretty wild group, and sometimes they'd make fun of someone, or others. And yeah, I'd always join in.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]I've never actually pushed someone around or shoved them or knocked them to the ground, robbed them or stole something from them. That's not bullying if you ask me, that's being a low-life bastard who's in need of serious help.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Now that I look back, those people I'd made fun of are fine, some are even better off than what they were. And then there's the people who are the same, still being made fun of. I feel sorry for them, but I've never actually tried to help them, or stick up for them.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=2]I don't really like the fact that bullying is a real problem, but it is. And nothing is going to stop it, as far as I reckon. I don't like alot of things, but they still happen. And they're always [i]gonna[/i] happen.[/size][/font]

[JimiWiggy11]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkGreen]I understand what you guys are saying, but I guess in a way I also don't. I'm one of the lucky few who have never really been bullied at all, and I'm only a 5'3'' male in 10th grade. When someone tries to pick on me I very quickly make sure that they know if I ever hear anything bad about me coming from their mouth I'll break it, and I've never even been in any fights at school. For some reason everyone just respects me, and I respect everyone else.

My school isn't really a school full of bullies, but their are plenty of people who hate each other. Nobody is really bullied though, but this is a school where half of the 'jocks' play Yu-Gi-Oh cards with the 'nerds' during band class. Me and my friends stick to bullying each other, but it's usually just all in fun. We've never started a fight over it or anything like that. I guess that's just me.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Charles]

I would like to spin bullying into a positive rite of passage; it would make life a lot easier if I beleived that people teased others for their benefit. Unfortunately, I live in the real world. Bullying is an ignorant and obnoxious exercise. People don't bully others to build them up; they do it to build themselves up and reinforce their own egos by making others feel inferior. Or, alternatively, they can't accept that someone is different than them. They're afraid of difference so they exclude people.

Bullying doesn't prepare anyone for the real world because a real world job environment is built on cooperation and communication skills. So, bullies are really hurting themselves just as much as they are their victims. They're denying themselves potential friendships. People may laugh at bullies for a time, but inside they never really accept them or respect them because they either fear them, pity them, or both.

[Docbatman]

i know people will hate me for this but the kids that are bullied usually deserve it hell they'll get the bully's back later with their little kill books. Alot of the kids that get bullied are just asking for it for instance not leaving the bully alone when they tell them that they don't like them. in short bullying has a reason. most of the time er... some of the time

[are i]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Bullying is never right, and it can hardly be called tough love, but being wrong won't make it go away. Chances are, there will always people who dislike you, and there will always be people who harrass those they dislike. Learning to disregard bullying by experiencing it is, in many ways, necessary to cope.

I had some experiences at my last school where the board accused me of some pretty vile stuff, just because they didn't like the way I dressed. It messed with me for a while, but I eventually got over it and decided they weren't worth it.

My point is, bullying is wrong but it's not showing any signs of being purged from the world. It's ridiculous to have to deal with it, but most everyone will. When we have bad experiences beyond our control, we can only learn from them and move on. It's a byproduct of living in an imperfect world.

To allow bullying for this purpose, however, is only feeding the problem. If it can be stopped, it should be stopped.[/COLOR]

[Lafleur]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I've had to deal with bullies my whole life. I've gotten used to em'. I, being a typical overweight nerd, have been bully prey since I can remember. I have noticed, however, that a bully, taken from it's natural enviroment (I.E outside of school) and seperated from it's herd (I.E ambushed without his friends to back him up) can be easily dispatched and taught not to mess with you again through gentle persuasion (Better known as broken ribs and a missing finger. Ok, it only happened once, but he never bothered me again) and thus bullies become nothing more than timid little hyenas that only come after you if your down. Still, I hate bullies with every fiber of my body, and they're lucky they don't play rugby... They're a completely uneccessary part of life meant merely to drive people to suicide (Which, however, may only be Teenage social structurs form of Natural Selection; thinning out the weak, so to speak) or other unpleasent things. I wish the school would do more...

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