Gaming Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]Well, let's remember that GTA has always had similarities with Sims games. In fact, it could easily be said that Sims copied GTA elements and not the other way around (although I wouldn't make that argument, but I think it's the same argument as the reverse).

Let's not forget that the original GTA and its sequel contained many "realistic" elements that had fairly little bearing on gameplay, but which significantly heightened the immersion aspect.

The key difference between The Sims and GTA: SA is simple. In The Sims, your appearance generally has very little impact on the way others perceive you -- even in The Sims 2. In The Sims, your actions play a more important role in defining your relationship with other Sims and the environment around you.

In GTA, this is also true. However, what is GTA trying to achieve? Ultimately, it's trying to achieve the most realistic world possible. You also have to understand the context of San Andreas. The game is taking place in a very specific gang culture -- where things like tattoos and physical appearance have many important subtleties and meanings.

In that context, San Andreas isn't copying The Sims at all really -- it's actually trying to remain true to its source material, in a way that not only provides cosmetic polish, but that also has a functional impact on gameplay.

The fact that these elements affect gameplay [i]at all [/i]is quite a remarkable thing; in most games, many of these things are peripheral to the main game and they have no functional bearing on the gameplay experience.[/color][/quote]

I'm not implying that either game copied the other, necessarily. I'm merely mentioning similarities that don't seem all that exciting, lol.

Now, I'm all for more immersion in games. I raved about Chronicles of Riddick because it planted me so well into that world. The level of interaction in KOTOR and Morrowind is quite nice. Doom 3 has gotten me creeped out, because of the level of detail worked in, even though the game itself hasn't changed since the original.

But the difference I'm seeing between those games and GTA, is I'm not seeing the relevance in most of San Andreas' immersion-enhancers, as it were.

I can understand the tattoo point. It just makes sense, with gang symbols and all.

But if we're going to get to eat donuts, presumably, going to a Dunkin Donuts or the GTA equivalent, what is going to be the significance or relevance of that donut shop? Is it going to be a front for gang-related activities? Are we going to sit down at the counter and munch on a raspberry jelly-filled, sugar powdered donut? (Damn, that got my stomach growling, lol)

Furthermore, what is the significance of the other fast food and pizza joints, apart from altering the character's appearance and having a mild influence on the character-character dynamics? Also, is CJ actually going to sit down in these places and are we going to watch him down a cheeseburger? Is it going to be an item of sorts that drops on the ground? I just read through a few of the IGN articles, and didn't see anything about that specifically. I figure more details will be released/found as we get closer to the release date.

But as it stands now, and oddly similar to MGS3, I'm lukewarm to most of what I'm hearing about GTA: San Andreas.

[quote][color=#707875]Well, nobody's suggesting that they are "high art". I wouldn't say that there's anything particularly "high art" about GTA, in the traditional sense of the phrase.

However, I don't think anyone can deny the artistry involved in making GTA work. Nobody else is doing what Rockstar North is doing, on a technical level. And if you actually read about the various levels of detail in San Andreas, I think you'll find that this game is a pretty large substantive leap forward from Vice City.

I mean, even the smaller "sub-missions" have been made complex enough that they could be games in and of themselves. This doesn't mean that GTA is the best game out there, but it [i]does [/i]mean that the game shouldn't be dismissed as a purely diversionary arcade game. You could definitely suggest that the insanely complicated design and coding involved in the latest game in particular amounts to an art -- even if it's an art with plenty of profanity and violence. ~_^[/color][/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone would really consider them "high art." My point with that was I'm not looking for a comprehensive GTA game. The character customization/character dynamics changes are not blowing my skirt up, as it were. The series was never all that deep, gameplay-wise, or character-wise. It doesn't detract from the fun, however, and while it seems like I'm being hypercritical of the GTA series, it's definitely one of the more fun series I've played in a while.

It's just that there's only so much you can do before you start overdoing it (incidentally, that's why there isn't an "AlexFilms Ltd" title card in Rebel Scum, heh), and hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised by San Andreas.

Regarding the various missions/sub-missions and so forth, I enjoy varied gameplay. I have no problem with it. One of my most memorable missions in the series was having to snipe a dozen armed soldiers on a storage barge. It was fun, and a healthy challenge.

But it's not really anything new, albeit it is executed very well, and integrated very well.

I'm not attempting to minimize Rockstar's work on the series, at least from a coding/programming standpoint. I suck royally when it comes to programming. Desi can attest to that when he had to revamp all my HTML for Rebel Scum. I know game programming is incredibly difficult, and I'll give Rockstar props for what they've done, and respect them for what they've done, but just because I can appreciate the inner workings of the games doesn't mean I'm going to automatically/necessarily appreciate the outer workings/appearance of the games, if that makes sense, lol.

And you know I have no problem with art that has "plenty of profanity and violence." ~_^

[50 cent]

The point of being able to eat is to make it realistic. If you can't see that thats lame, but remeber I'm not telling you that you don't. What food does to you in the game is give you energy to run and blah blah blah. Also if you only eat fast food and never work out on the game you gain weight, so you look different. Ahh just like how it is in the real world. So if you are heavier in weight you look heavier and people in the game judge you on how you look, like people will begin to call you a fat a** if you don't workout and only eat fastfood. So thats why it is there. To give it a more realistic element. See in the sims you can eat all the time but never gain weight, even if you don't work out. See the sims has some of the elements that GTA: SA is going to have but there forgeting very important elements which make it better.

So does that make it more clear or do I need to keep going? 50 out

[Teufelmann]

yeah i do like the idea of the eating food i just dont like the idea of time progressing without you. but then i guess it could be good in some circamstances.

[Burori]

[quote name='Teufelmann']yeah i do like the idea of the eating food i just dont like the idea of time progressing without you. but then i guess it could be good in some circamstances.[/quote]


Unless it means a gang can rob your ***. OO God I hope that isn't oing to happen.

I just bought the game to let everyone know. No I don't have it right now. I have to go to EB Games and get it when it OFFICALLY comes out. I must say I am looking forward to this game.

[James]

[QUOTE=Siren]
But the difference I'm seeing between those games and GTA, is I'm not seeing the relevance in most of San Andreas' immersion-enhancers, as it were.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Well hold on, let's think about what GTA is trying to achieve here. GTA has always been about creating a "virtual sandbox"; a city and environment that behaves as realistically as possible, whilst also providing some liberties so as not to make the game [i]so[/i] realistic that it isn't fun.

Just look at the radio. That's one tiny example of the many immersion techniques that have always worked beautifully in the GTA games. The radio isn't just [i]there[/i] -- it has a link to specific characters throughout the series and it attempts to make you feel as though you're living in a certain time period. Very few games pull that off as effectively as GTA.

Regardless of what the specific complaints may be, you simply can't argue that GTA isn't an immersive experience. GTA is all about immersion and the reason that these techniques do work is because they are [i]all[/i] relevant to both the time period and location, as well as the characters themselves.[/color]

[quote name='Siren']But if we're going to get to eat donuts, presumably, going to a Dunkin Donuts or the GTA equivalent, what is going to be the significance or relevance of that donut shop? Is it going to be a front for gang-related activities? Are we going to sit down at the counter and munch on a raspberry jelly-filled, sugar powdered donut? (Damn, that got my stomach growling, lol)[/quote]

[color=#707875]What is the significance or relevance of that donut shop? Think about it for a moment. You're missing the most obvious point.

The fact that a donut shop even exists and the fact that you can go and eat there, is in itself, justification for its existence.

Remember, GTA is going for realism and immersion. It's no different to what Sega did with Crazy Taxi, when they had a number of actual fast food chains and recognizable stores. Sure, Crazy Taxi was an arcade game that didn't strive for realism in terms of behavior -- however, the game was nonetheless highly immersive, for a variety of reasons (many of which mirror GTA).[/color]

[quote name='Siren']Furthermore, what is the significance of the other fast food and pizza joints, apart from altering the character's appearance and having a mild influence on the character-character dynamics? Also, is CJ actually going to sit down in these places and are we going to watch him down a cheeseburger? Is it going to be an item of sorts that drops on the ground? I just read through a few of the IGN articles, and didn't see anything about that specifically. I figure more details will be released/found as we get closer to the release date.[/quote]

[color=#707875]I think that you are looking at it in the wrong way. It's not about "the act of eating the cheeseburger". It's about the fact that you [i]can[/i] eat the cheeseburger and that the cheeseburger will have a tangible impact on gameplay.

First and foremost is your appearance. There are many games out there which allow players to change their appearance. And usually, it's done in a manual way (ie: you simply go in and choose what body type you want and what clothes you want). Generally speaking, this is always considered a good feature -- a way to further customize your character. So why penalize GTA for including it? Nobody penalizes other games that include it. That's the first point.

The second point relates to a significant difference between GTA and other games with this feature. In other games, it's usually a mere cosmetic issue. In GTA, it has fundamental consequences in gameplay. And those consequences aren't just two dimensional.

Your changing body type is going to have a direct impact on your physical performance, which again relates back to the immersion element. You eat a cheeseburger, you expect to put on weight and you expect to run slower or become tired more easily. Simple as that.

In addition, your body type and physical appearance are going to have an impact on the way others in the game perceive you. And by that I mean, anything from a simple comment from someone on the street, to a series of differing responses during missions. All of these things are significant and all of them are worth talking about in a positive manner.

The only reason I'd criticize this feature was if it was detracting from other game features, or if it was incorporated in a clumsy way.

The latter, we simply won't know until the game is released. And the former really can't be argued, because "eating" is one of many features in this game and it is by no means a feature which the entire game revolves around.[/color]

[quote name='Siren']I don't think anyone would really consider them "high art." My point with that was I'm not looking for a comprehensive GTA game. The character customization/character dynamics changes are not blowing my skirt up, as it were. The series was never all that deep, gameplay-wise, or character-wise. It doesn't detract from the fun, however, and while it seems like I'm being hypercritical of the GTA series, it's definitely one of the more fun series I've played in a while.[/quote]

[color=#707875]So what is the point of your criticism? Are you complaining simply for the sake of complaining? lol.

The character customizations are one tiny part of this game. 1/100th. Go and take a look at the IGN articles that talk about stealth missions at night, or go and take a look at the articles that discuss missions related to the badlands environments. Or go and look at the articles that talk about the far more detailed car customization engine.

The fact of the matter is, GTA is all about realism and it's all about choice and non-linearity. If those are things that you don't like or don't appreciate, then chances are, you won't find GTA very fun. But if that's the case, then GTA simply isn't what you should be looking for (and I say that to everyone out there).

San Andreas is a qualitative leap forward from the previous games, which were pretty good, in and of themselves. They weren't without faults (and I'm the first to be critical of them), but my criticisms are well-placed. I'm not going to criticize GTA for adding another feature, or giving me more options and choices in the game. That would be like criticising Square Enix for making a tactical strategy game with too many layers of depth or something.[/color]

[quote name='Siren']It's just that there's only so much you can do before you start overdoing it (incidentally, that's why there isn't an "AlexFilms Ltd" title card in Rebel Scum, heh), and hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised by San Andreas.[/quote]

[color=#707875]But what's your fundamental point? Are you saying that this game has [i]so much[/i] that players simply can't play all of it?

Or are you saying that if you focus on too many seperate areas, the overall experience will be worse-off, because the game will be less focused and the designers are spreading themselves too thin?

I can only assume you're arguing the second point. But I guarantee you, that point is unfounded. You will see what I mean when you play it.[/color]

[quote=Siren]Regarding the various missions/sub-missions and so forth, I enjoy varied gameplay. I have no problem with it. One of my most memorable missions in the series was having to snipe a dozen armed soldiers on a storage barge. It was fun, and a healthy challenge.

But it's not really anything new, albeit it is executed very well, and integrated very well.[/quote]

[color=#707875]But again, what's the point of that criticism? Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door does nothing "really new" apart from a few small additions. But that doesn't make it an unfun game. lol

We're talking about GTA here, not Pikmin. It's GTA...so it's going to behave like a GTA game.

Having said that, though, I can tell you right now, there is [i]plenty[/i] of stuff here that is new.

The most interesting of which would have to be the new burglar missions. Allow me to explain.

In San Andreas, it is possible to earn money by stealing goods from people's homes and selling them to a fence.

Rockstar could have executed this in a very simple and boring manner. But as it stands, these missions are interesting enough to be a game in their own right.

As far as I know, you can burgle a house in day time or evening. But evening is better, simply because you have less chance of being caught.

When you do these missions, you'll need a vehicle that can carry the stolen goods (I think you may require a specific vehicle).

The idea is to sneak into someone's house, through either a window or door (and without being seen) and to then quietly sneak around their home and steal items.

Whilst you are in this mode of gameplay, the game operates a lot more like Rockstar's Manhunt. From what I remember reading, you have a kind of "noise meter", which will alert you as to how much noise you're making and give you an idea of whether or not you're going to be waking the residents up. Bear in mind that plenty of residents are going to have weapons of their own, which is always a risk. And the last thing you want is to be trapped in a house with police surrounding you and trying to storm in.

This is, again, just one small example. Yet it's a significant new feature that provides even more possibilities when it comes to earning money and playing the game. The fact that stealth has even been added (and is based on the mechanics used in Manhunt), means that you're going to be experiencing some very new dynamics in this game.

Of course, stealth itself isn't new. But to argue that would be pointless, because that's like pointing to a new Zelda game or something and saying "Oh look, it's 3D. 3D is nothing new." Know what I mean? Individual elements on their own don't have to be new. That part of it doesn't matter -- what [i]does[/i] matter, is how these elements are used and implemented and whether or not that has a positive impact on gameplay.[/color]

[quote=Siren]I'm not attempting to minimize Rockstar's work on the series, at least from a coding/programming standpoint. I suck royally when it comes to programming. Desi can attest to that when he had to revamp all my HTML for Rebel Scum. I know game programming is incredibly difficult, and I'll give Rockstar props for what they've done, and respect them for what they've done, but just because I can appreciate the inner workings of the games doesn't mean I'm going to automatically/necessarily appreciate the outer workings/appearance of the games, if that makes sense, lol.

And you know I have no problem with art that has "plenty of profanity and violence." ~_^[/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]I understand what you mean, but I really view your criticisms in this thread to be 100% invalid. I don't know how much you've read about this game, but it seems to me that you're not quite understanding exactly how much is being changed and added in San Andreas.

My intention isn't to suggest that San Andreas is going to be the be-all and end-all of gaming or something. I'm sure it will sell very well, but I believe that I am going to enjoy it more than I did previous GTA games, for some of the reasons that have been described in this thread.

Of course, I do have some strong criticisms of GTA too. And I've expressed those earlier in the thread.

But I think that there is warranted and unwarranted criticism and it's important to recognize which is which. ~_^[/color]

[Syk3]

I can't believe no one has posted in this thread after playing the game yet, lol. I got it a few days ago, and if you've played it, you'll agree that it blows the other games out of the water.

I don't really want to get into all of the specifics too much, but I will say that the game is awesome. The other PS2 games were also good, in my opinion; III was fine and Vice City got me hooked for a while, but San Andreas is where it's at. If you've played the other games and didn't really like them, you still have to rent it at the very least. As my Nintendo fanboy friend was telling me after his brother bought the game, "III sucked, Vice City was okay, but San Andreas is the first actual good game."

The game is so detailed that it's absolutely unbelievable. Not only can you use a number of vehicles, but you have attributes that let you perfect those skills to go faster, smoother, and for motorcycles and bikes, less likely to fall off. If your health is low, you can eat to regain energy, but eat too much fatty food, and you'll get fat. You can choose to eat a salad meal if you want, but they're going to cost you more money. There's also a gym to raise your muscle and stamina attributes, and even if you get it all the way up, they will slowly lower if you don't go to the gym for a while. The effects are visable, too, so if your muscle bar is all the way up, you can see that you are pretty ripped, and if you use you fists to fight someone, the people will go down fast. For raising your stamina, it lets you run, bike, and swim longer, though not forever. I haven't driven in a car much, but there are so many different cars that it would be almost impossible if you were looking for a specific one (which is why I'm hoping there isn't the equivilant of the car shop in vice city :p).

The game is soo much more than just looking pretty, as you can see, and it is very pretty. ;) The map is also HUGE, as you'll hear from other people. The area that I've been through so far is way too big for me to keep track of, and that's less than a fourth of the entire map that I hope to unlock after playing some more missons (which raises your respect meter and gives you money as well). And if that wasn't enough, the game is pretty difficult too, so don't expect to beat it any time soon. :p

The whole game is just.. damn. You have to play it for yourself to see what I mean.

[James]

[color=#707875]Yeah, I bought this two days ago and I've been playing it quite a bit.

As someone who liked the last two games, but was somewhat critical of them, I can safely say that San Andreas addresses those concerns. Not only does it fix a [i]lot[/i] of the gameplay issues in previous games (gunplay is now significantly better, stealth missions are a great deal of fun and even the DDR-style gameplay is handled well).

In addition to that, you have all the other stuff. It's quite intimidating to try and write about it because there's just [i]so much[/i]; and even that is an understatement. The fact that this is even possible on PS2 really boggles the mind, considering that there's also a reasonable upgrade in visual quality.

Where Vice City felt like an expansion pack of GTAIII, San Andreas really feels like "GTAIV". It's a substantial next level for the series, in my opinion. And it's one game that will push GTA ahead of those who are trying to copy the formula; copying San Andreas is going to be very difficult, not least because DMA (Rockstar North) has been doing this type of thing for a long time...and San Andreas is really the pinnacle of this style of game.[/color]

[Epitome]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]Yeah, I bought this two days ago and I've been playing it quite a bit.

As someone who liked the last two games, but was somewhat critical of them, I can safely say that San Andreas addresses those concerns. Not only does it fix a [i]lot[/i] of the gameplay issues in previous games (gunplay is now significantly better, stealth missions are a great deal of fun and even the DDR-style gameplay is handled well).

In addition to that, you have all the other stuff. It's quite intimidating to try and write about it because there's just [i]so much[/i]; and even that is an understatement. The fact that this is even possible on PS2 really boggles the mind, considering that there's also a reasonable upgrade in visual quality.

Where Vice City felt like an expansion pack of GTAIII, San Andreas really feels like "GTAIV". It's a substantial next level for the series, in my opinion. And it's one game that will push GTA ahead of those who are trying to copy the formula; copying San Andreas is going to be very difficult, not least because DMA (Rockstar North) has been doing this type of thing for a long time...and San Andreas is really the pinnacle of this style of game.[/color][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=SeaGreen]I havent played the game yet, but I definatley plan on picking it up.

My brother who already has the game told me that it was alot better than Vice City and III. He also said that San Andreas wasnt more like a continuation of III of Vice City, but more like a "GTA IV" as James said.

But I dont understand what you mean by DDR Style of gameplay... Do you mean you can dance in the game?[/size][/color]

[James]

[QUOTE=Epitome][size=1][color=SeaGreen]

But I dont understand what you mean by DDR Style of gameplay... Do you mean you can dance in the game?[/size][/color][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Precisely.

[spoiler]And your car can dance too. ~_^[/spoiler]

Very worth picking up, for sure. For those who have never played GTA or never liked it (or had issues with certain things in the last two games), San Andreas may be for you. However, you [i]will[/i] miss certain little things, particularly in-jokes. However, I don't think that will really sour the experience, since the story is pretty self-contained (and the characterization is a whole lot better than the previous two games, by a long shot).[/color]

[Epitome]

[size=1][color=SeaGreen]Thats awesome. Im a huge DDR fan and I know Syk is too so Im sure hes having alot of fun with that ^_~.

But yea, my brother said that it had an excellent storyline as well. He also told me that if you hadnt played any of the other games, you could still follow along, because it mainly stands on its own.

But the only thing I have a big question about are the missions: Are they still as easy to complete? In Vice City, me and my brother completed the game 100% so quickly all we really could do is go around blasting the hell out of people...

And Im not saying thats not fun, but I was hoping this one was going to be made a little more difficult.[/size][/color]

[Purple Haze]

My little brother got the gamehe's onl 12 and the store clerk sold it to him) and I have to say I am amazed. Didn't think I would actually even like but it's adicting. Alot of the litte glitch issies have been fixed like the random freezing. I don't feel so closed up like in the last 2 games where I knew where everthing was and could get there in bout 1 minute. I've been exploring for 3 days and still don't know where everything was. I like to get ATV and just ride around out near Red County. The gym exersise thing is great. Lifting weights, runnng the treadmil, its like 1 huge mini game. I also like that you have to work up each gun to be a master killer, you get ratings for being a good driver and how you have to work off fat, and even learn how to hold your breath.

Even though I really hate the other GTA games, this one is great.

[Zidargh]

[QUOTE=Epitome][size=1][color=SeaGreen]

And Im not saying thats not fun, but I was hoping this one was going to be made a little more difficult.[/size][/color][/QUOTE]

[size=1] Trust me, this game is alot more difficult.

Instead of further into the game causing you to be a hot target to rivals, from the [i]very[/i] beginning you will be subjected to drive-bys if you feel like being a pedestrian around East Los Santos.

The missions can be very difficult. For example, one [spoiler]involved me with my fellow Big Smoke to chase a train on a dirt bike for him kill four gang members on top of it. Not only do you have to keep catching up and staying at a decent range, you have to avoid the random obstacles, such as a car in the way or an oncoming train.[/spoiler]

Within 2 hours Ive been involved in three gung-ho/Leon/Saving Private Ryan-style gun fights. And not only with this gun fights, me and my comrades had to make sure we had each others backs or... GAME OVER.

Yeah, so, Id say its alot more difficult. ^_~


[b][Z][/b][/size]

[Epitome]

[QUOTE=Zidargh][size=1]Within 2 hours Ive been involved in three gung-ho/Leon/Saving Private Ryan-style gun fights. And not only with this gun fights, me and my comrades had to make sure we had each others backs or... GAME OVER.

Yeah, so, Id say its alot more difficult. ^_~ [/size][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=SeaGreen]Gung-ho/Lean/Saving Private Ryain-style gun fights huh... lol.

But thats good that its alot harder than the other 2 that I have played. And I like the way you have to work as partners in the game, unlike the previous games... at least thats what Im getting from Zidargh. I didnt like in the other games how you had to do EVERYTHING on your OWN. It was way too unrealistic.

So I think I am definatley going to have to my hands on this game by the end of this week...[/size][/color]

[James]

[color=#707875]The thing about this game, which struck me versus the last two, is that so far I really haven't [i]disliked[/i] any one mission. Some are more fun than others, but it comes down to personal preference usually.

The scenarios are all pretty varied so far, which is quite a challenge for the developers (especially given that they've already used so many ideas). I felt that in Vice City, the missions were becoming more and more stale...like I'd been there and done that. San Andreas is totally different. The game has a different feel (a superior feel) as a result of the way missions are designed. And the variety will keep you coming back, regardless of difficulty.

Interestingly though, I don't find this to be any more difficult than Vice City in general. I think that's because my problems with Vice City (in terms of dying) were related to the fact that I sometimes found the controls very clunky and annoying. San Andreas almost totally solves that problem, by being a lot more intelligently designed in terms of combat and general movement. Cars are slightly more realistic and aircraft are a bit more floaty (but I think it works to great effect).

[spoiler]Right now I'm up to the mission where you have to break in on a deal between the Ballas and the Russians. It's just after you start taking over enemy gang territory. I'm wondering when I'll be able to leave Los Santos, 'cause after all these missions, I'm still here. And I haven't been getting stuck all that much, I mean...there just seem to be a lot of missions. So if there are this many per city (and with country areas added in), I'm going to be at this for a while, I think.[/spoiler][/color]

[Epitome]

[size=1][color=SeaGreen]Well if the missions have their own significance and arent as hard, I think that I will still be satisfied. Im just really looking forward to trying out the game and then getting to see whats its really like...

P.S. James you might want to fix that spoiler... ^_~[/size][/color]

[Kazuko]

...

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kazuko

[Syk3]

[quote name='Kazuko]\My only complaint, if you could count it as one, is that the land is so BIG. It takes me forever to get [i']anywhere at all.[/i][/quote]lol Yeah, I've heard that before, but the game does a great job of accomodating for the huge map. Like Vice City, there's always the option of buying property to be closer to a particular set of missions, or possibly in the center of the map so that you don't have to travel as far to certain places. Also, I believe that there are trains to take you to different places, though I haven't done that yet myself since I haven't gotten very far into the game, and there are planes/helicopters, as well as the possibility of indicating a point on the map for your radar, to reach your destination in the least amount of time.

Right now I'm on a mission where you have to pack crates into a truck inside of a military base. I've failed the first couple times, lol, but I'm confident enough in what I have to do so that I can get it done fast now.

[James]

[QUOTE=Syk3]

Right now I'm on a mission where you have to pack crates into a truck inside of a military base. I've failed the first couple times, lol, but I'm confident enough in what I have to do so that I can get it done fast now.[/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]I liked that mission, except for one thing.

[spoiler]When I was driving back to the garage, my truck rolled over (I hadn't dumped enough crates) and I thought I was done for. However, I was able to somehow drive it while it was on its side. lol

I was maybe a few meters from the garage entrance, when the truck blew up from being rammed too much. How annoying. ~_^[/spoiler][/color]

[Semjaza]

I have not played any GTA3 based titles since the original... so my question might have already been addressed by the following titles.

I realize the game is called "Grand Theft Auto" and obviously implies the nature of what you will be doing. However, with all these discussions on the vast amounts of "freedom" this game gives you, is there really any way to make progress in this game without doing bad things? It all seemed to consist of drive-bys and picking up prostitutes.

For something that is portrayed as open ended in that sense, it sure seems to stuff you down one direct path. This isn't a bad thing, I'm just curious as to whether or not they've addressed that in this title.

By the way, doing missions in a police car doesn't count lol.

[James]

[color=#707875]Well, I'd really ask why they would address it. You know? I mean, the game isn't really about helping old ladies across the street. It's about you being part of a vast underworld. So obviously a major aspect of that involves violence.

I have to admit though, that's not what makes it fun for me. The actual gameplay is what makes it fun. San Andreas simply does everything better than its predecessors, with regard to mechanics [i]and[/i] story.

"Good" and "bad" is also a very relative term. I say that because in San Andreas particularly, you have a character who, despite being part of the underworld, is often in situations where there are many shades of grey. You have a pretty corrupt authority figure as well (Officer Tenpenny). So the game kind of sends the message that there is corruption and violence everywhere; our main character has to kind of make his way through that.

So, sometimes you'll be doing outright cold-blooded things. But other times, your missions will be based on helping people who are on the down-and-out.

I'll give you an example.

[spoiler]During one mission, you need to burn someone's house to the ground. You're ordered to do it by Officer Tenpenny.

Now, when you set it all alight, you discover that there is a girl trapped inside. During the mission, you have to enter the house and find her, then save her by using your fire extinguisher. Once this occurs, she actually becomes your girlfriend and you are responsible for her to some degree (or at least, you are responsible for the relationship).[/spoiler]

So that's one example of the "grey" I'm referring to.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I wasn't meaning things like helping out old ladies and selling girl scout cookies... lol. More like perhaps going along with some cartel and selling the information to the police. Or being undercover in some situations.

The thing you put up just now fits more into the idea I was looking for.

[James]

[color=#707875]Yeah I know, I was exaggerating. ~_^

Vice City allowed that, though. I mean, so did GTAIII to an extent. From what I remember of those games, they allowed you to take missions from different people -- in some cases, those people had very different interests.

In San Andreas you're basically "working for a particular side", but there is a great deal of complexity to the story versus the last two games, I think.

Somehow San Andreas manages to feel a lot more real, in terms of characters. I have absolutely no interest in LA gangs or anything, but San Andreas still manages to give me some interest in its story. So I think that's saying something, considering that I'd otherwise have absolutely no interest in the setting and situation.[/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']Somehow San Andreas manages to feel a lot more real, in terms of characters. I have absolutely no interest in LA gangs or anything, but San Andreas still manages to give me some interest in its story. So I think that's saying something, considering that I'd otherwise have absolutely no interest in the setting and situation.[/color][/quote]

[SIZE=1]I found the same thing when I got into San Andreas, the brother bought it on Friay when it had it's Irish release and I've managed to get in about an hour here and there. In Vice City you really don't care about Tommy or his past, he was merely just some ex-con in a city that screwed him over and you were to make him your weapon for retribution. However in San An I find that I'd actually pay seriosu attention to what Sweet or Big Smoke would have to say about Los Santos and the history of Grove Street.

I actually find that sometimes the diversity of the missions can take away from what Grand Theft Auto is about, [spoiler]the Lowrider mission that Sweet sends you on had me tearing my hair out because I didn't know what do do.[/spoiler] But then again I suppose it's just adding to the variety to keep San An feel fresh and more interesting for longer.[/SIZE]

[Zidargh]

[size=1]Still in Los Santos. I'm finding that first Officer Tenpenny mission quite difficult.

Despite the strong story, I must admit I do get freaking annoyed during cutscenes when all the dialogue I'm hearing consists of, "**** you ************", or "I care about the hood homie, you down **** dawg?" I understand what the entire game's centralised over, but sometimes the foul language is just unneccessary.

I recently completed Big Smoke's last mission. A friend told me it took him 2 hours to do, but I managed to do it on the second attempt. I was having lots of fun though, especially with the [spoiler]very cinematic car-chase cut-scenes, what with that huge truck chasing you. I was very intimidated, but kept calm with Big Smoke's humorous speeches. And don't take me for a fool here, I idiotically got my friend to tell me what the first twist was, so I know I was going to be a bit shocked. ^_~[/spoiler]

My 'Wow of the Day' came today when I managed to jump a roof on a BMX, lol.

So, any other players going to talk about their 'Wow of the Day's?


[b][Z][/b][/size]

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Zidargh][size=1] I was having lots of fun though, especially with the [spoiler]very cinematic car-chase cut-scenes, what with that huge truck chasing you. I was very intimidated, but kept calm with Big Smoke's humorous speeches. And don't take me for a fool here, I idiotically got my friend to tell me what the first twist was, so I know I was going to be a bit shocked. ^_~[/spoiler]

[b][Z][/b][/size][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Did anyone else who played that mission feel a bit like they were watching Terminator II when that happened ? I mean it just seems to have been almost lifted straight out of the film and pasted into the game, part classic film nostalgia, part mindless killing of "Russkies" on motorcycles.[/SIZE]