Gaming Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

[King Ex]

Today i was watching the news and they said that they might be making Grand Theft Auto San Andreas adults only as my title says. This is all because of some stupid Holland person finding the pornography in this game. Rockstar says that they never had anything like this in this game, but those stupid news people say that Rockstar only hid this so it could sell more. Well that is also a reason to do that. So what do you guys think did they hide it or are they telling the truth?

[Goodbye, Face]

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the AO rating. At 17, you can watch R rated movies, which contain sex and nudity. So why increase a mature rating when you could find even worse material in R-rated films? Is it because of the fact that most adults view games as a kids only thing?

As far as GTA is concerned, the rating should be fine. It's not like you can actually see the sex happening, etc. Why isn't this issue being brought up with God of War, which has an actual sex mini game?

[2010DigitalBoy]

As stupid as this issue sounds, it could seriously alter the sales of GTA SA. You see, the greater mojrity of video games are sold by Wal-Mart, and they refuse to sell AO games.

I don't see why GTA SA should be changed...

[Mitch]

That's just our over-sensitive media and parents talking there. Welcome to America. Instead of focusing on things that are more important, let's pick on the little wimps out there. The little things so small they really don't matter. Next they'll want our lunch money.

I really tire of stuff like this, you know. But oh well. Not much I can do.

[Sandy]

Um , In Finland this game is forbidden from under 18 years old, but still there are hordes of kids even under 10 years playing it. It's simply because some parents buy it for their kid, probably thinking that it's only a stupid videogame, and then all the kids from the neighborhood suddenly pour over to play this magnificent masterpiece of everything immoral.

I find this very concerning, because a) I've played GTA 1, 2 and 3, and seen Vice City and San Adreas being played, so I know what kind of game we're talking about, and b) I've worked with 8-year old kids who have played the game or seen it being played, and I've witnessed what it does to them.

I think you teenagers shouldn't pass this issue with a diminishing sniff or snicker. Even though you have no responsibilities over your minors, you should have at least some sense of what exposing to extreme violence and criminality does to their minds.

I totally agree that there are worse things than GTA-games that young kids can see and experience, but these games are still no innocent toys for kids to play with!

The only way to prevent these games from getting into the hands of preteens and younger is to make them Adults Only. Maybe then the parents would realize that not all games are mere toys...

[BlueYoshi]

[color=darkred]I don't think much of the issue to begin with, but if the government wants to give a game an AO rating on the basis of nudity and sex, then they may as well enforce the rating on all games that include violence and gore. Think about it, we're all bound to having sex and seeing at least [I]one[/I] woman nude in reality some day, which is perfectly legal, but on the other hand violence and gore is something that none of us want to have to face or witness or be the victim of, which in many cases could be the result of illegal activity.

The whole "conflict of interest" malarkey has me in stitches, though.[/color] :animesmil

[Zidargh]

Well either way, they're a bit late.

Considering sales were huge [i]months[/i] ago, (I mean, everyone who pre-ordered here got a free bandanna) then I don't see how this new rating is going to affect SA drastically.

However, I happen to see where the government and whatever are coming from. Unless there is an AO rating then adults will feel that the game is going to be okay, because I'm assuming it only got an M rating in the US. I guess it's that whole 'blind eye' argument, much like that of the psychological technique of pricing things with a .99. Parents feel that if its legal for a 17 year old (officially not an adult) to play it, then why not their kids? Well, it's a bit stupid, but alas, alot of parents are like this.

On the other hand though, unless I see a kid on the street bring out a dildo and beat me to death with it, then I'm going to just laugh this law off. Its not the companies to blame, its the parents who let their kids get their hands on the game.

[Mitch]

[QUOTE=Sage]Um , In Finland this game is forbidden from under 18 years old, but still there are hordes of kids even under 10 years playing it. It's simply because some parents buy it for their kid, probably thinking that it's only a stupid videogame, and then all the kids from the neighborhood suddenly pour over to play this magnificent masterpiece of everything immoral.

I find this very concerning, because a) I've played GTA 1, 2 and 3, and seen Vice City and San Adreas being played, so I know what kind of game we're talking about, and b) I've worked with 8-year old kids who have played the game or seen it being played, and I've witnessed what it does to them.

I think you teenagers shouldn't pass this issue with a diminishing sniff or snicker. Even though you have no responsibilities over your minors, you should have at least some sense of what exposing to extreme violence and criminality does to their minds.

I totally agree that there are worse things than GTA-games that young kids can see and experience, but these games are still no innocent toys for kids to play with!

The only way to prevent these games from getting into the hands of preteens and younger is to make them Adults Only. Maybe then the parents would realize that not all games are mere toys...[/QUOTE]

Well, I completely disagree with you. I'm not going to argue. You know where I stand, and you know where you stand.

If we're going to make this game AO, we might as well censor the hell out of everything else out there. And you know, it's not my fault parents buy their kids this game. That has nothing to do with it. Kids see violence all the time on TV, it's not as if this is any worse, really. Just because you see it doesn't mean you'll do it. Sure, younger kids are more meldable, but they shouldn't play this game in the first place. It's rated M for a reason. It's not my fault some parents buy it for their kid. That's not an issue, I think, and isn't a valid reason for it to be changed.

[quote]Its not the companies to blame, its the parents who let their kids get their hands on the game.[/quote]

[i]Exactly[/i] my point. The parents are to blame. It isn't the fault of the game companies or anyone else. Perhaps the media should just get it heard out there about the games their kids are playing? Or perhaps the parents should actually look into what they're buying their kids before they get it? Other than that, an AO rating is ridiculous. An M rating already only allows someone 17+ to get the game. By the age of 17+, someone has enough sense to know what's real and what's not.

[Sandy]

I can't say I totally disagree with you, Sean. I realize that obviously most seventeen years old people are mature enough to play GTA-games - in my opinion even most fifteen years old are.

But with a game like this, that is immoral in so many ways (and in my opinion possible sexual content is the least of them), it is obvious that the game is meant for adults, who can clearly tell the difference from right and wrong.

I'm not sure if AO-rating in America means "not for people under 21", but in Finland the official age of adultness is 18 (which clearly is a more reasonable age in my opinion). So, I might have misinterpreted the issue here, and I apologize if I have.

I'm totally against cencorship, but I flag for media education - every parent should take even one hour to get to know the subject. I guess I'm one of those "why doesn't anybody think of the kids?!" -people, but until parents start realizing their responsibilities in this changing world, these kind of decisions have to come from legislation.

So for the sake of humanity's future I still say that only full-grown people should play GTA, even if it might tick off hordes of teenagers.

But of course we're not living in a perfect dream world of mine, so many kids can freely corrupt their minds with excessive violence, abuse and horror. :(

[Charles]

[quote name='RiflesAtRecess']As far as GTA is concerned, the rating should be fine. It's not like you can actually see the sex happening, etc. Why isn't this issue being brought up with God of War, which has an actual sex mini game?[/quote]

You [I]do[/I] see sexual imagery with the "hot coffee" mod that sparked this controversy. I haven't bothered to view the scene but in a discussion I was reading, described the scene. They said it begins with oral sex and moves on to the bed where they have intercourse in various positions in a mini game that allows the player to control the action. Supposedly CJ remains fully clothed while the female is naked. If this description is accurate, then I don't see what the big deal is. How would the above described scene be any worse than the puppet sex scene from [I]Team America[/I]?

I'll tell you how: most people won't even see this sexual content. A hacker named Patrick Wildenborg unlocked content that was available on the DVD but not used in the final product. So, unless you own the PC version and alter it by downloading the mod, you're never going to see the scene. The other side of the story, as Rockstar puts it, is that Wildenborg edited the game's source code which would completely remove Rockstar's liability. I find Rockstar's argument a little doubtful though, considering the textures and voice work were all in the game already.

But, I digress. This game wasn't meant for children in the first place. When you're going around killing hundreds of people during the course of the main game, stealing cars, and robbing houses, I don't see why a sex-based mini game is such a big deal. It's not like sales are going to be hurt considering almost anyone who's going to bother with this game already has it.

[Chaos]

[quote name='RiflesAtRecess']As far as GTA is concerned, the rating should be fine. It's not like you can actually see the sex happening, etc. Why isn't this issue being brought up with God of War, which has an actual sex mini game?[/quote]


Good point, actually. It's because God of War isn't as mainstream as the GTA series, and it's so easy to harp over Rockstar because they are so "controvercal." It's becoming a [i]fad[/i] to drivel over games now with parent groups and the media. It's sheer insanity. No, not insanity, I'm sorry, sheer [b]stupidity.[/b] It's a bunch of lazy fools who don't want to take responsibility for raising their kids and shift the blame to companies. It's people taking the easy way out instead of working with their kids to introduce this material in a controlled manner.

Not to mention all of this liberal ******** these days, all of the "You can't spank your child, that will emotionally scar him," crap. Kids today just have no backbone. Hell, do you know how many hours upon hours I've spent going on blood-drenched killing sprees in games? I have a collection of PS2 games alone that reaches my knee, and only one does not feature killing and/or violence, but am I in a bell tower with a rifle? No. None of these kids that go to school and shoot up the classroom do it because games warped their minds; that's an excuse to shift the blame. They do it because they have no moral fiber.


[quote name='Sage']Um , In Finland this game is forbidden from under 18 years old, but still there are hordes of kids even under 10 years playing it. It's simply because some parents buy it for their kid, probably thinking that it's only a stupid videogame, and then all the kids from the neighborhood suddenly pour over to play this magnificent masterpiece of everything immoral.[/quote]


Tch. That's no different from any place in the world. Parents shirk their duties to [u]supervise[/u] what their kids do. I say supervise because this or any "immoral" game shouldn't be filtered; in fact, it SHOULD BE put out on the market. Make it educational and yet fun. Teach kids the difference between life and pixels. Let them experience blood and cursing and sex, because, you know what? It's in the [b]real[/b] world. It's in life. Get used to it.



[quote name='Sage']I find this very concerning, because a) I've played GTA 1, 2 and 3, and seen Vice City and San Adreas being played, so I know what kind of game we're talking about, and b) I've worked with 8-year old kids who have played the game or seen it being played, and I've witnessed what it does to them.[/quote]


What it does to them? What does it do, praytell. I'm interested in what a DVD can force a child to do. Pah. It morally degrades them into heathanistic monsters? Makes them lay out a hooker with a golf club? Sends them into murderous killing sprees involving pets and the old lady next door and a hapless mailman? What it does to them? No. It's what parents let happen. Like I said before, it's their job to oversee what goes on in their house. They have the power to correct this issue, but today's left field view does not appreciate restrictions. *rolls eyes*



[QUOTE=Sage]I think you teenagers shouldn't pass this issue with a diminishing sniff or snicker. Even though you have no responsibilities over your minors, you should have at least some sense of what exposing to extreme violence and criminality does to their minds.

I totally agree that there are worse things than GTA-games that young kids can see and experience, but these games are still no innocent toys for kids to play with!

The only way to prevent these games from getting into the hands of preteens and younger is to make them Adults Only. Maybe then the parents would realize that not all games are mere toys...[/QUOTE]


Why shouldn't I brush it off? It's not my problem. Hell, it's not even really a problem. It's irresponsibility in a tangible form, yes, but it's easily rectified. And why should we restrict this material? It's already rated M, which you have to be seventeen or older to get, without your parent or legal guardian being right next to you and approving of the choice. We don't need stricter rules regarding distribution, we need smarter parents. I agree it's sheer idiocy to allow an eight year old run rampant with this game, unsupervised, but I also think it isn't such a monumental problem as certain individuals in the media make it out to be. Nancy Grace comes to mind.

And these preteens and younger kids? Guess who has to buy the game for them? PARENTS. A thirteen year old can't walk into a Best Buy, pick up a copy of San Andreas, or any M-rated game, and just walk to the cashier and be on his merry way. The stores can be sued for that, and they take a LOT of care to make sure that doesn't happen. So parents would still buy the game for the children. You think seeing 18+ instead of 17+ is going to make a difference? Pfft.

[Sandy]

Wow, you're one angry young man, Chaos. ;) I guess the countless hours spent playing games filled with bloody gore and immense violence have nothing to do with it? :p

[QUOTE=Chaos]
Not to mention all of this liberal ******** these days, all of the "You can't spank your child, that will emotionally scar him," crap. Kids today just have no backbone.
[/quote]


Liberal bs, you say? Why don't you try "human rights" for a change? In our civilized world it is every individual's right to live and grow up in a non-violent environment without fear or abuse of any kind. That's what separates us from our barbaric ancestors.

I was continuously beaten up when I was a kid by my psychotic mother, and though I admit I'm a tougher person because of that, I also carry deep scars within me. The traumatic experiences in my childhood will follow me to my grave. So save your lecture because you obviously have no idea.

I agree that children of today are more spoiled than before (I know since I've worked with kids for over an year now and intend to do it for the rest of my life when I graduate), but there are other, much more effective ways to bring up children than violence.

If you can't see the options, I sincerely wish you will never have children.


[quote name='Chaos']What it does to them? What does it do, praytell. I'm interested in what a DVD can force a child to do. [/quote]


You wish it would be that simple! No, the games don't turn kids into psychotic murderers and rapists, it makes them think that it's totally okay and cool to beat up others, to take what you want despite the fact that it isn't yours, to break stuff etc. Most importantly, the kids I took care of that had played or seen GTA, wanted to be like the man in the game! They looked up to a lowlife criminal!!

If there's nothing wrong with that in your opinion, Chaos, then there's obviously something very wrong in you.

----

As to the subject in hand, I've now gathered more info about it. So there is this mod of the game that contains a minigame with sexual content, and it has raised a big hubbub among parents and lawyers. I say screw them for being such jerks and not seeing the cazillion things that makes the game even worse!

Pornography has it's own downsides, but this world is totally screwed up if it claims that its worse than mindless killing and beating and robbing and vandalism!

I'm all out of words now... Stupid world filled with stupid people...

[James]

[QUOTE=Sage]You wish it would be that simple! No, the games don't turn kids into psychotic murderers and rapists, it makes them think that it's totally okay and cool to beat up others, to take what you want despite the fact that it isn't yours, to break stuff etc. Most importantly, the kids I took care of that had played or seen GTA, wanted to be like the man in the game! They looked up to a lowlife criminal!!

[/QUOTE][color=#332e1d][font=franklin gothic medium]Kids also played cowboys and indians in years past. I don't think it made them want to go and shoot an indian.

I think people forget one important point with all of this - they put the cart before the horse.

Yes, violent entertainment can inspire real life violence. That statement is partly true, but it ignores an important point - if you are an inherently unstable person, you are likely to be affected by such outside stimuli. If you aren't, then you are likely not to be affected by it, at least to the point of carrying out violent acts.

People will blame Grand Theft Auto and if they can't blame that, they'll blame Marilyn Manson. And before he came along they blamed rock 'n' roll. And so it goes.

As Marilyn Manson says, who did Caine blame when he killed his brother in the Biblical story? He had no violent TV or games or music then, so what could he blame? When are we going to [i]stop [/i]blaming outside sources and start taking responsibility?

If someone is inherently violent - if they are actually prepared to kill someone or cause harm - they will actively seek out violent content. The content won't invade their homes and force them to do anything; they will seek it out. The buck stops with the perpetrator.

As someone who has actually had parenting responsibility, I don't think that it's about always shielding children from gruesome things. It's about ensuring that they understand what is right and wrong and what is real and unreal.

If I had a five year old son, would I let him play GTA? Possibly not. But not because I'm afraid of him being influenced to kill people with baseball bats. I'd only prevent him from playing if I felt that it would actually frighten him or something like that. I think parents need to instill that responsibility into their kids by allowing the children to make decisions and to determine outcomes for themselves. Yes, parents can do some protective things as they should - but it has to be within reason. And parents need to understand that they can't blame a video game for their lack of parenting in general.[/font][/color]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='James][color=#332e1d][font=franklin gothic medium]If I had a five year old son, would I let him play GTA? Possibly not. But not because I'm afraid of him being influenced to kill people with baseball bats. I'd only prevent him from playing if I felt that it would actually frighten him or something like that. I think parents need to instill that responsibility into their kids by allowing the children to make decisions and to determine outcomes for themselves. Yes, parents can do some protective things as they should - but it has to be within reason. And parents need to understand that they can't blame a video game for their lack of parenting in general.[/font'][/color][/quote]


Exactly. Thats my full opinion on things. My parents raised me that way. They didn't sensor me, but they taught me what it meant to kill someone, so I was afraid of seeing anything die and made the choice to refuse to watch violent movies or play GTA. Now, of course, I play God of War and slaughter countless innocents, but I know damn well the cosequences of those actions in the real world.

[SilentSecurity]

Now that GTA SA is AO will they pull all the old ones off the shelves or leave them on there until they sell out and then just not buy any more.

in the words of some other dude from another forum "Hot coffee is going to get Rockstar games burned"

~Jake~

[Semjaza]

[QUOTE=Charles]You [I]do[/I] see sexual imagery with the "hot coffee" mod that sparked this controversy. I haven't bothered to view the scene but in a discussion I was reading, described the scene. They said it begins with oral sex and moves on to the bed where they have intercourse in various positions in a mini game that allows the player to control the action. Supposedly CJ remains fully clothed while the female is naked. If this description is accurate, then I don't see what the big deal is. How would the above described scene be any worse than the puppet sex scene from [I]Team America[/I]?

I'll tell you how: most people won't even see this sexual content. A hacker named Patrick Wildenborg unlocked content that was available on the DVD but not used in the final product. So, unless you own the PC version and alter it by downloading the mod, you're never going to see the scene. The other side of the story, as Rockstar puts it, is that Wildenborg edited the game's source code which would completely remove Rockstar's liability. I find Rockstar's argument a little doubtful though, considering the textures and voice work were all in the game already.

But, I digress. This game wasn't meant for children in the first place. When you're going around killing hundreds of people during the course of the main game, stealing cars, and robbing houses, I don't see why a sex-based mini game is such a big deal. It's not like sales are going to be hurt considering almost anyone who's going to bother with this game already has it.[/QUOTE]

You're kind of misinformed here. It's not only in the PC version. It's also in the Xbox version, which can also be modded. According to things I've read, it's also in the PS2 version although I've not heard of any way to alter that one (edit - there's Action Replay clodes). Take 2/Rockstar practically makes it sound as if this guy made the mod up himself when all he did was edit something that was obviously ridiculously simple and in place.

The girl is fully naked, but also fully textured. It's not a blank canvas like naked Sims. You control the guy thrusting and doing whatever else by pressing buttons to a rhythm. This is basically the same thing as half the porno games out there that stores won't even touch. Whether or not the guy is clothed is irrelevant when the woman isn't and everything is explicitly shown. Comparing this to a film doesn't really make sense because the voluntary films rating system has been proven to work and people look down upon kids going into R rated films even with a parent. This isn't true of video games whatsoever and everyone that buys them knows that.

I can see why Take 2 didn't inform them thanks to it not being accessible normally, but it is an issue. It doesn't matter what one's "moral standpoint" is on sex versus violence because the simple, but sad, fact is that the US is far more up in arms about sexual things than violence. You can see that in any film or TV show. It's not going to be any different with games. These same politicians have been bitching about this game before anything was known about the Hot Coffee mod. They just have even more fodder now. This didn't come out of nowhere.

AO stipulates things that GTA now has unlocked and underminds the system and the rating. According to the ESRB rules, companies are supposed to send in a tape as well as a written survey talking about what is in their games.

This isn't just about "oh, now kids can see sex!!" as far as I'm concerned. It's an unprecedented thing because the ESRB doesn't generally rate games with this sort of content in the first place (things that would be rated AO usually don't go through this system because they're not sold in general stores). If the company doesn't get any repremand for something like this it sets the idea that this sort of thing is okay and the ESRB has absolutely no power... something they want to fight very hard now that so many politicians are on their back about that very same idea.

The argument of many of them is that this voluntary system is broken and flawed, that it is inherantly messed up because people involved with it are basically paid members of the industry. Obviously parents should be informed about these things and I don't think any of them should rely perfectly on a ratings system, but it's still an issue that has to be worked through because that's what the ESRB is paid to do. None of this is helping their image of responsiblity or power.

[Morpheus]

I'm sure the title says it all. I was amazed slightly that ESRB rerated it, but I was even more amazed to find that 24 hours after a complete recall of the game, most of the stores in my area still had the game on it's shelves:


[B]
Still sell as of midday yesterday[/B]
Wal-Mart
Target
K-Mart
Movie Gallery (rental)
Game Crazy #2
KB Toys

[B]Recalled[/B]
Gamestop
Game Crazy #1
Blockbuster (rental)


I'll check again later today.

[Mitch]

This is ridiculous. I already own the game, though, so I really don't care.

[Goodbye, Face]

I'm still trying to figure this out... M rated games and R rated movies target the same audience, R rated movies can have nudity and sex, but M rated games can't? God of War has nudity and sex that isn't really hidden, but it still has an M rating.

Anyways, we all knew it would happen soon... A GTA game has turned out to be the first mainstream AO rated game. We should celebrate...

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't really understand the ratings system we're talking about here. In America, M-rated games are the equivalent of R-rated movies? If that's the case, this seems quite ridiculous, especially given the mildness of the content (mildness in the sense that it would surely fit within those ratings boundaries).

In Australia, we use our movie classification system for both games and film. But guess what? There is no R18+ rating for games, only films. Therefore, there is the implication that games can't possibly be for adults.

So instead of GTA being given an R classification, it gets banned and requires parts to be edited (thankfully they only edited the ability to pick up a prostitute, from GTAIII...I believe San Andreas was unedited, which is even more ridiculous, because it allows you to do the same thing that GTAIII was banned for; go figure).[/font]

[satan665]

The whole rating system is so retarded anyway. If its rated M you have to be 17 to buy it, but Adults only only bumps the age limit up to 18.

I don't know why politicians are so scared of sex in America. You've been able to tear people spines out and limbs off in games for years and years, but don't dare show a nipple. I'm embarrassed to live in this lame Country sometimes.

Anyway, the whole controversy got me playing the game again. I never really got too far in it before and am only about 15% into the game. I always get myself killed trying to do the turf wars.

[SilentSecurity]

People are flippin out over Hot Coffee like it's the first code that uncovers sex in a game. I've found codes for the Sims that take off the censor when their in the hot tub or in bed and from what I've heard no one raised hell about that. Sure it's not a graphic as GTA SA but kids can get a hold of the Sims easier than GTA so I'd be worried about that too.

~Wes~

[Semjaza]

[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']I don't really understand the ratings system we're talking about here. In America, M-rated games are the equivalent of R-rated movies? If that's the case, this seems quite ridiculous, especially given the mildness of the content (mildness in the sense that it would surely fit within those ratings boundaries).[/font][/quote]

Well, I'm not sure what you're asking so I guess I'll explain it... if you know this already, I apologize.

In the US, R ratings mean 17 and over. The important thing is that after that comes "without parent or guardian". Kids under 17 aren't allowed into these movies without someone with them that is significantly older accompanying them and buying the tickets. I still get carded for movies and if I was under 17 they wouldn't let me buy them. A parent can bring a five year old into an R rated movie if they wanted to and it happens surprisingly often. However, this is generally very frowned upon by most people I know.

M is the exact same system here. Stores are [i]supposed[/i] to card younger kids. The big difference is that they very rarely do and unlike the movie industry, there's no repurcussions for it currently (which is why so many government officials are pushing for retail fines of selling to minors... which is fine with me since they're not supposed to sell them to these kids to begin with). Games are still largely considered a kids thing and parents don't seem to be as involved in stopping kids from getting these as they would an R rated film. There's really no social taboo in this either like there is in a kid going to a R rated movie. No one questions a kid buying a game regardless of what is in it. People question a kid going in to see Bad Boys II or House of 1,000 Corpses.

M games can have nudity and intense gore and drug usage, just like any R rated film. In films s soon as you bring this up into insane amount of really incredibly realistic gore or explicit sexual acts (basically anything beyond nudity and touching breasts) you're at least into the NC-17 rating (kids under 17 cannot go in no matter who buys the tickets, much like an AO rating is supposed to work), if not X. NC-17 is most comparable to AO thanks to this, obviously. There's a very set of differences. The gore thing really doesn't come up with AO ratings here simply because 1.) it's a game and can't really look super realistic with today's graphics and 2.) none have really approached how bad and incredibly mean spirited some movie violence is (intense torture, rapes, etc). The nudity and sexual stuff obviously comes up more often in both movies and games, though... But a lot of companies that make sexual games do not send things to retail channels and sell direct, meaning they don't really need to deal with the ESRB at all.

The big thing hereis that this GTA mod doesn't just show nudity, like was brought up by Riflesatrecess. There are plenty of M rated games with nudity and have been for years... Duke Nukem, BMX XXX, God of War. The Hot Coffee mod unlocks explicit stuff. It may not show the guy fully naked doing these things, but it's very strongly implied and WELL beyond the other M rated games with nudity in them. I'm starting to wonder if anyone if many people here have actually seen the mod in action. It's not comparable to seeing a vase shake around during a sex minigame in God of War whatsoever.

The system politicians want to go for is very similar. Stopping kids from buying these games by being carded like they're supposed to be in the first place. Every single interview I've read very stongly says they have no interest in stifling these games or getting rid of M ratings, they just want to protect the kids from them. They all say if the parents buy the game then there's nothing they can do about it. They're not going to stop kids from playing these games or being given as gifts to them, but they can stop the sales to them directly. Even if the parents are aware of these violent/sexual games, the fact that kids can still so easily buy them undermines both the parents and the system itself. Why can't a kid just hide the game till he's around? It's not like it's difficult and kids aren't stupid.

The Sims comparison doesn't make much sense. The makers of the game don't fully texture the nude model and cover it up with a mosaic to get around the problem. They can't be held accountable for people removing things that they've done that fundamentally change the game's complete set up and editing skins on their own time. They don't have super secret fully textured nude skins and uncensored sexual things hidden away. What's involved with modding the Sims 2 compared to GTA: SA is extremely different in both execution and purpose.

Even then, the ESRB was shown all of this stuff and chose their rating. They weren't shown this GTA stuff, which they should have been even if it was locked up in the game somewhere knowing how players are nowadays. With GTA, all anyone has done here is enabled code that was already in the game to begin with and it results in something far more explicit that's far more indepth. They didn't really add any of their own work like what happened with The Sims.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]So in other words, the content of this mod (ie: sex scenes, even clothed ones) would put this game beyond the M rating?

Interesting. It makes me wonder if something like that will happen over here. I've seen the mod and what it does, but I would not have thought that it'd go over M in any way. I say that mostly because M-rated movies (our M rating is similar to yours) would probably include that level of content without much trouble. Only in some cases would it go to MA (MA is like M, but M is more a suggestion and MA actually restricts the age of purchase).[/font]

[Semjaza]

[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']So in other words, the content of this mod (ie: sex scenes, even clothed ones) would put this game beyond the M rating?[/font][/quote]

I would say so. I don't know if they'd be quite as up-in-arms if the girl was clothed as well, but I'm sure the very acts being explicitly depicted in the mod would be enough for it.

Implications are another story. Sennen had told me that he heard the sex game in God of War is more explicit... but it's not. Yeah, it's still a sex minigame, but a lot of it is implied and completely off the screen.

I'd recommend seeing the video of this if you don't have access to the mod itself. It's not hard to find. I doubt anyone who has seen it firsthand would be as "well, whatever" about it lol.