Suicide(Common Topic <.<)

[Panda]

Suicide is a very touchy subject. I have lost a few friends to suicide and, to be quite honest, have thought of it myself. I guess for me my opinion on the subject is that there are many reasons why people decide to take this as an "out" from their problems. Each of those problems being what seems to be the worst event(s) of their lives they find no way out. It is easy to judge those who take this route since you are not them.

One of my friend's killed himself after his ex-girlfriend got engaged to another guy. He shot himself in the head with a shotgun and his mom found him in his room. He felt that this girl was his world and he couldn't live without her. At the time, I am sure he thought it was the end of the world. I just feel if he would have given his broken heart some time I am sure he would have seen there was more to life than his ex-girlfriend.

In my case it is poor health. Constant pain and feeling like I had lost my purpose in this world was, and is, really difficult to take. I studied hard, worked full time through college and got a degree I can no longer use. There are days when I can't even get out of bed because of my pain. I felt like everything I had done up to that point in my life was for no reason. I know that there was no point in being depressed so I sought help. I talked to a therapist who helped me through this rough patch. I knew there was nothing I could do nothing more about the constant pain but I could take care of my mental health.

I can totally see why people who are sick and in constant pain would commit suicide. When you are completely worn down from constant pain it is easy to find the idea of ending that pain very desirable. I can also see why people who only suffer from mental anguish would also like to find an end to their problems. In the end I guess I can understand why people do it but I know there are many other means to deal with problems that are far more healthier.

Whether you feel it is right or wrong it is a way some people deal with their issues, just not my way.

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]ahh well, perhaps I went to far. But as Panda stated, suicide is a touchy subject, and just as I was asked to not generalize suicide, or assume things about people I don't know, I'd ask the same of all of you. I'd be glad to oblige this request if other posts had the same restrictions. Read over Chaos' first post and you'll see why I was angry with him and it was so blatant in my own post. It wasn't merely his own opinion, but the way it was posted and it had an overall feel of putting people down. I understand if it's something you don't agree with, but don't expect to post an adamant feeling of your own and not get one back in return. My post might've been a bit candid, but it was rightly so.

As for Ceres, I don't think the thread should be closed, for whatever reasons you might have provided. Sure, me and Chaos might have very conflicting opinions on the subject, but some of my remarks that seemed geared towards him were more towards everyone, even if it didn't seem that way. My intention wasn't to flame him, or his beliefs, merely post my own thoughts on the subject, that happen to be quite opposite of his own. Sure, things might seem "out of hand," but how are we to learn if every time we approach a new POV on something the thread is closed and the discussion ended.

I won't apologize to everyone since I don't believe my remarks were offensive to the "general public" of OB. I will apologize to Chaos, since it seems he took the brunt of my anger, even if it wasn't meant to be that way.[/SIZE]

[Chaos]

I don't really think you need to apologize, since, as you said, one oppressing opinion deserves another, but I do appreciate the effort. You have every right to your own opinion and if that clashes with mine, so be it. Don't worry about it.

Yes, I know I run my mouth, and yes, I know I'm stubborn, but I was merely putting my own thoughts out. It may be hard to recognize, but I'm generally a pretty rash person on just about any subject, so what some might think is being aggressive is just my way of wording. Granted, that's not exactly fair to those that do not know me, but then again that's a different story.

Like I said earlier, don't be so quick to assume that my opinions are just spurred on by ignorance. I've been around for more than my fair share of disasters in this world and I can tell you without a doubt, even knowing and seeing all that I have, that my stand on this matter is my sincerest. I know that there isn't always someone standing next to you to help you through your trials; you sometimes have to go and find it, so while I understand and accept your point of view, I still hold mine dearest -- an action every human does even on a subconscious level.

I don't think you need to apologize to me or anyone, Kamuro. You have the right to make your own thoughts and express them as you like. But I do applaud you having enough spirit to come forward and say what you did.

My opinions are in some way a personal vice; I really do look at the matter in a very broad sense and without compromise. People might dislike or disapprove of that, but the entire matter is that my ideals are not right and neither are yours. So how about we put this past us and move along for good?

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]Thank you. My opinions are somewhat biased, but in no way do I condone suicide, if thats what was previously indicated. I don't believe it's the right way of going about things, I merely wished for people to understand that although it is wrong, to the person in question it is the only option, or seems to be. I think less people would have to contemplate the issue if everyone was a bit more open-minded about it. Don't agree with it, but simply listen to the person and how they're feeling.

If you've ever experienced this kind of depression, then you know it's much easier having someone there, anyone, if not to talk at all just to listen. It's overwhelmingly lonely sometimes, and every now and then you just need someone to comfort you, it happens. But it's not a weakness, it's a strength, being able to confide in others. Knowing that you're responsible for your own happiness yet being able to let others in as well.

I don't mean to make assumptions, but it's hard not to on forums where you don't really know anyone. My comments went over the wrong way, but the intent was good I assure you. Sometimes it's hard to adequately display feelings on a topic you're so adamant about. I merely wish for us to understand people, rather then shun them for feeling the way that they do.[/SIZE]

[Gnostica]

I disagree with the fact of ending my life, at one moment in my life I did have the thoughts about it but I realized that it wasnt worth it. I believe that if a person was in as much pain as I was I really believe they should sort through it and then come to terms with there life. Yeah sometimes life throws you alot of awful obsticles but to surpas these obsticles is why we live. Its not what we do with our lives that matters its how we rise after we fall that matters the most, it really explains what kind of person you are. So I believe all the people who do have these thoughts should really go home and rethink there life. If you do this you really never know what might happen. You really might see that there is a way. :D

[mmmmpizza!]

im sorry if this offends any non christians but

suicide is wrong theres only one being that gets to decide when you die

[Shinobi's angel]

[COLOR=Red]" im sorry if this offends any non christians but
suicide is wrong theres only one being that gets to decide when you die"
i agree w/ u! suicide is the dumb way outta life my b/f tried to commit suicide but i stopped him in time and i've always had a distaste for it its like..........that bitter apple stuff that my mom puts on my nails yucky stuff but anyways back to the subject suicide is dum ppl who commit it r weak..........they should follow Christ(im not trying to offend anyone)"Youth Fire is 4 teens who r on Fire 4 Jesus,'' Pastor Warren Beemer(srry id i got to much in christianity) [/COLOR]

[Amity]

[font=times new roman][size=2]Hmm, my thoughts on committing suicide. Here's what I have to say. If you, wanted to kill yourself because of how your life was and how you dreaded to stay alive another moment- then you should go ahead, be your idiotic self, and go ahead and do it. But keep this in mind, once you're dead. You're dead. There are no "second chances" in life itself. Once you're gone, you're gone. That's all to it. But a person does have their rights as a person to make their own decision whether to take their own life or not. There [i]is[/i] only one being who gets to decide if you live to see another day, or die to never again live. No offense, but this being [i]isn't[/i], 'God'. Whoever that may be. It is you. You have your own mind, your own thoughts. Surely if you decide whether to take a shower or not, you can decide to kill yourself... or not, as well. It is your option, and no one else has a say in the matter.

You can't control/change one's conscience. I respect everyone's point of view. Though I may not agree with some, I would have to say, that I stand by a person when they say they want to kill themselves. Unless I know for certain I can change their mind. And I don't. Because I can't predict what the outcome would be. The first post, in this thread... Ceres, if I read correctly, you informed others, to try and help, right? The chick, called you, and thanked you- but she still ended up dead. Even after seeing for treatment? It's the inevitable, what ever happens, happens. And I think everything happens for a reason. And that reason is, because their opinion/option of wanting to die, did not change..? Did not change... because if it were to have changed... she'd still be alive... sorry if this is all sounding a little..."harsh." You can't really change a person, without changing the actual.. person. Which would be, the mind. So, let them do what they wanna do. Like I said, you can't control/change one's conscience. Get what I'm saying?[/size][/font]

[Oceanborn]

[*almost offtopic*] Kamuro-san, you generalized it all too good >.< ^.^

[Retribution]

[quote name='Amity][font=times new roman][size=2]You can't control/change one's conscience. I respect everyone's point of view. Though I may not agree with some, I would have to say, that I stand by a person when they say they want to kill themselves. Unless I know for certain I can change their mind. And I don't. Because I can't predict what the outcome would be. The first post, in this thread... Ceres, if I read correctly, you informed others, to try and help, right? The chick, called you, and thanked you- but she still ended up dead. Even after seeing for treatment? It's the inevitable, what ever happens, happens. And I think everything happens for a reason. And that reason is, because their opinion/option of wanting to die, did not change..? Did not change... because if it were to have changed... she'd still be alive... sorry if this is all sounding a little..."harsh." You can't really change a person, without changing the actual.. person. Which would be, the mind. So, let them do what they wanna do. Like I said, you can't control/change one's conscience. Get what I'm saying?[/size'][/font][/quote]
[SIZE=1]I'd like to start off saying that yes, you indeed [i]can[/i] change one's conscience. Letting someone kill themselves is not the right thing to do... would you let your best friend drive home high on Mary Jane and drunk? I would hope not, and I would hope that you would look out for their well-being, and help them out. Suicide is the same thing. Your friend has impaired reasoning abilities, and is taking what seems to them [I]at the time[/I] the most rational course of action. Once again, I hope that you would look ahead at their life, and make the call for them that they have too much potential to just squander it all now. If you do not look out for someone like that, I don't think you're actually their friend.

It's [i]not[/i] inevitable. Alot of people have been saved by friends, family, or psychiatric treatment. Whatever happens happens? I can't put into words how disgusting that is. Letting someone kill themselves, and just shrugging it off saying, "Heh. Well, whatever happens, happens, right?" is utterly vile. It's not sounding 'harsh' what you're saying, it's downright despicable that you're trying to dissuade people from stopping others suicides.[/SIZE]

[Amity]

[QUOTE=Retribution][SIZE=1]I'd like to start off saying that yes, you indeed [i]can[/i] change one's conscience. Letting someone kill themselves is not the right thing to do... would you let your best friend drive home high on Mary Jane and drunk? I would hope not, and I would hope that you would look out for their well-being, and help them out. Suicide is the same thing. Your friend has impaired reasoning abilities, and is taking what seems to them [I]at the time[/I] the most rational course of action. Once again, I hope that you would look ahead at their life, and make the call for them that they have too much potential to just squander it all now. If you do not look out for someone like that, I don't think you're actually their friend.

It's [i]not[/i] inevitable. Alot of people have been saved by friends, family, or psychiatric treatment. Whatever happens happens? I can't put into words how disgusting that is. Letting someone kill themselves, and just shrugging it off saying, "Heh. Well, whatever happens, happens, right?" is utterly vile. It's not sounding 'harsh' what you're saying, it's downright despicable that you're trying to dissuade people from stopping others suicides.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[font=times new roman][size=2]Yes, and I do agree with you. But it is my opinion. I would [i]try[/i] to help them. If I [i]knew[/i] I would be changing their mind and course of actions. But not every outcome can be great with them changing completely as a person, with a happy ending. I would try. You can't do more than try and hope for the best. If someone wants to be that much of a dolt to consider committing suicide, I say let them. Why? Because it's stupid for wanting to end your life. I may not know that person, or how their life was, what it's like, how it is with them, why they would WANT to commit suicide. But don't you think it's STUPID for wanting to take your own life KNOWING that you don't get a second chance at it? That is pure ignorance. Doing something utterly stupid when knowing what the outcome will be.

I could care less if it's "utterly vile." "Downright despicable." What I am saying, is it's one's opinion, choice, option, to either live the life you're living in and try to make it better, or end the life you are living in, and never get a new one. I can look at it from different perspectives and tell you I agree with them all. On this topic, agree with them all. But what MY [i]thoughts[/i] are on the subject, is what I've been saying. I want to know, have you ever tried committing suicide? Have you ever had one of your friends try committing suicide? Have you ever seen one of your family members, dead because they commited suicide? I'm saying all of this, from experience. You have to do things on your own, changing is one of those things. You can TRY to change a person, and hopefully have them consider changing, but you can't do it alone, you can't do it yourself. They have to make the final decision to it all.[/size][/font]

[Chaos]

[QUOTE=Shinobi's angel][COLOR=Red]" im sorry if this offends any non christians but
suicide is wrong theres only one being that gets to decide when you die"
i agree w/ u! suicide is the dumb way outta life my b/f tried to commit suicide but i stopped him in time and i've always had a distaste for it its like..........that bitter apple stuff that my mom puts on my nails yucky stuff but anyways back to the subject suicide is dum ppl who commit it r weak..........they should follow Christ(im not trying to offend anyone)"Youth Fire is 4 teens who r on Fire 4 Jesus,'' Pastor Warren Beemer(srry id i got to much in christianity) [/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Christianity, or any religion for that matter, is not the answer. Please, leave faith at the door. If someone turns to the church to seek help in their life out of their own volition, fine, but do not preach here. If you're going to make a point do it without a blind faith in whatever you believe in, because, chances are, someone doesn't want to hear it. I'm not saying don't practice an open religion, I'm not saying don't express your opinion; I'm saying make your point in a sensible manner and over a subject matter that all can agree on.


And did you really just compare suicide to nail polish? What in the hell...?


As for everyone else, let's try taking a step back and calm down, all right? These are personal feelings, not rites of passage into the understanding of the world of the dead. We need to keep that in mind unless we want another tiff. Amity, I'd first like to say to you that I do understand your point, but also to point out a problem; humans are impressionistic beings. Someone's words can affect us even if we don't immediately realize it. Granted, if someone is so far off the deep end that they constantly think about suicide, you probably won't be able to do much simply by smiling as you pass them by or saying hello once in a while.

Not only do I understand your point of view, I somewhat share it...but even if you advocated the whole "one life, one chance" thing, you should do everything in your power to try to help someone if you can, regardless of your feelings on suicide. Doing anything else makes you just as bad, if not worse, for forsaking someone. Yes, I know how hard it can be to connect with someone that simply wants to end it all, but any little thing might be a grand miracle in their eyes.

Retribution, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the matter of some suicides being inevitable. Sometimes things REALLY are quite simply hopeless. Even seeking therapy people are often times so lost that they cannot even see a good thing in front of them. I know because it happened to a friend's mother. She had repeatedly attempted suicide before, and failed, but that only made it worse. Eventually she took a .38 snub to the side of her skull, and to be quite honest, even though I think she was wrong in doing so, I also think she was a ticking timebomb waiting for the right push. I can honestly say that when I think back to it she really was on the edge and, frankly, it was a matter of time.

So yes, we should help, even if it is impossible to bring someone back. It makes us who we are, and anything is possible if the right steps are taken. Don't let personal opinions or vices stand in your way of extending a hand to a person in need.

[Amity]

[QUOTE=Chaos]Amity, I'd first like to say to you that I do understand your point, but also to point out a problem; humans are impressionistic beings. Someone's words can affect us even if we don't immediately realize it. Granted, if someone is so far off the deep end that they constantly think about suicide, you probably won't be able to do much simply by smiling as you pass them by or saying hello once in a while.

Not only do I understand your point of view, I somewhat share it...but even if you advocated the whole "one life, one chance" thing, you should do everything in your power to try to help someone if you can, regardless of your feelings on suicide. Doing anything else makes you just as bad, if not worse, for forsaking someone. Yes, I know how hard it can be to connect with someone that simply wants to end it all, but any little thing might be a grand miracle in their eyes.[/QUOTE]

[font=times new roman][size=2]And hun, I do agree. I really do. But I never said I didn't try helping. I have tried helping, many times before. I still try. But isn't trying the only thing you can do? Trying and having faith that this person will change their mind? Mhm. I know what you're saying. But not always, is it like that. As said, it can be inevitable to get the point across the person's mind. I will try and help, but I still say that if they want to kill themselves, fine. That is, if my words, don't help. There's a point where you've tried everything in your power, to change this person, what they want to do, and you couldn't help anymore, that all you could do.. can do.. is stand by and wait to see what happens.[/size][/font]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Chaos]Retribution, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the matter of some suicides being inevitable. Sometimes things REALLY are quite simply hopeless. Even seeking therapy people are often times so lost that they cannot even see a good thing in front of them. I know because it happened to a friend's mother. She had repeatedly attempted suicide before, and failed, but that only made it worse. Eventually she took a .38 snub to the side of her skull, and to be quite honest, even though I think she was wrong in doing so, I also think she was a ticking timebomb waiting for the right push. I can honestly say that when I think back to it she really was on the edge and, frankly, it was a matter of time.

So yes, we should help, even if it is impossible to bring someone back. It makes us who we are, and anything is possible if the right steps are taken. Don't let personal opinions or vices stand in your way of extending a hand to a person in need.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]Chaos, you didn't quite understand what I meant. I know that some suicides are inevitable, and I never said otherwise. I was more stressing at the point that [i]some people[/i] have been saved by intervention. Of course there will always be the tragic case of someone being hell-bent on killing themselves.

But your closing remark confounds me. You said that [i]anything[/i] is possible if the right steps are taken. Does that mean you contradicted your point in the previous paragraph?[/SIZE]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think it's important in any discussion about suicide (or anything of this nature), not to make general, sweeping statements. Or at least, not to make assumptions.

Many of us probably know someone who has committed suicide, or someone who has actually been suicidal. My uncle on my dad's side committed suicide for example.

What's my opinion on suicide? Well, it's a mixture of things. It's tragic, it's selfish, it's heartbreaking, it's pathetic, it's sometimes inevitable, it's sometimes easily-preventable, it's sometimes image-related and sometimes highly genuine, it's a last resort, etc etc...

I don't think I could ever apply one particular view to it. This is because each circumstance is quite different.

Sometimes - and quite often, it seems - suicide is about revenge on the living, about attention-seeking. When I say this, I think I do risk being misinterpreted. When I say that, I don't mean that it's some hollow thing and that people who take their lives are normal human beings who are simply being bratty. No, not at all. Actually, attetion-seeking can still be the [i]symptom[/i] of very serious problems. And that's important to remember. People can commit suicide over relatively trivial things (like a partner leaving them - trivial in terms of overall existence) and their reasons for doing so might be to get back at that person. Does this mean that their feelings of emptiness or betrayal are any less severe? No. It's just that they are having an extreme reaction to the situation.

Of course, there are many other reasons for suicide. Sometimes suicide is somewhat accidental (in the case of many drug overdoses - perhaps it's almost inevitable in some of those cases, but also slightly unintentional). Sometimes suicide is the result of a failed "failed attempt", which is ironic but true at times.

So yeah, I do think that as with anything, it's important to appreciate the many circumstances that can be in play here. Is suicide preventable? In many cases, it probably is. But sometimes people are built a certain way, I think - they are less able to cope and perhaps they are inherently unable to acquire the tools to do so. As a result, it is presumably much more difficult to prevent something like this.

So yes, you can [i]try[/i] to help someone. But they have to [i]want[/i] to make a change, just as with drug addiction or anything else. No amount of talking or preaching or whatever is going to make an iota of difference if that person has no desire whatsoever to get assistance.

The main thing that annoys me about suicide is the people who wear it on their sleeve like some kind of badge of honor. You know, constantly telling us about their millions of suicide attempts, or always talking in suicidal terms - but without having any intention to carry it out and without being truly suicidal. Not only do such people do a tremendous disservice to those with real problems, but they also cynically attract attention/admiration/sympathy from those around them. [i]That[/i] kind of fakeness is the sort of thing that I really despise.[/font]

[Mitch]

Twenty-five is when a man reaches his prime. It's all dowhill from there. So, my plan is to do myself in when I hit twenty-five. By then I've got to cement everything I ever wanted to do and hope it's dried. Then, when I die, I can do a Jim Morrison, or a Kurt Cobain, or an insert-celebrity-who-died-young's-name-here, and then I'll be famous and remembered and be a legend. It'll rock.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=James][font=franklin gothic medium]I think it's important in any discussion about suicide (or anything of this nature), not to make general, sweeping statements. Or at least, not to make assumptions.

Many of us probably know someone who has committed suicide, or someone who has actually been suicidal. My uncle on my dad's side committed suicide for example.

What's my opinion on suicide? Well, it's a mixture of things. It's tragic, it's selfish, it's heartbreaking, it's pathetic, it's sometimes inevitable, it's sometimes easily-preventable, it's sometimes image-related and sometimes highly genuine, it's a last resort, etc etc...

I don't think I could ever apply one particular view to it. This is because each circumstance is quite different.

Sometimes - and quite often, it seems - suicide is about revenge on the living, about attention-seeking. When I say this, I think I do risk being misinterpreted. When I say that, I don't mean that it's some hollow thing and that people who take their lives are normal human beings who are simply being bratty. No, not at all. Actually, attetion-seeking can still be the [i]symptom[/i] of very serious problems. And that's important to remember. People can commit suicide over relatively trivial things (like a partner leaving them - trivial in terms of overall existence) and their reasons for doing so might be to get back at that person. Does this mean that their feelings of emptiness or betrayal are any less severe? No. It's just that they are having an extreme reaction to the situation.

Of course, there are many other reasons for suicide. Sometimes suicide is somewhat accidental (in the case of many drug overdoses - perhaps it's almost inevitable in some of those cases, but also slightly unintentional). Sometimes suicide is the result of a failed "failed attempt", which is ironic but true at times.

So yeah, I do think that as with anything, it's important to appreciate the many circumstances that can be in play here. Is suicide preventable? In many cases, it probably is. But sometimes people are built a certain way, I think - they are less able to cope and perhaps they are inherently unable to acquire the tools to do so. As a result, it is presumably much more difficult to prevent something like this.

So yes, you can [i]try[/i] to help someone. But they have to [i]want[/i] to make a change, just as with drug addiction or anything else. No amount of talking or preaching or whatever is going to make an iota of difference if that person has no desire whatsoever to get assistance.

The main thing that annoys me about suicide is the people who wear it on their sleeve like some kind of badge of honor. You know, constantly telling us about their millions of suicide attempts, or always talking in suicidal terms - but without having any intention to carry it out and without being truly suicidal. Not only do such people do a tremendous disservice to those with real problems, but they also cynically attract attention/admiration/sympathy from those around them. [i]That[/i] kind of fakeness is the sort of thing that I really despise.[/font][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]James has summed up many of my thoughts on suicide, it's always a tragic thing, regardless of the circumstance, but most especially when that suicide is a young person. I suppose I'm lucky to have only ever known one person who committed suicide, his name was Peter and I went to High School with him. His suicide was an accident, though it was motivated by problems at home, he took a concoction of tablets in an effort to frighten his mother whom he'd had a bad row with. When he was brought to hospital he was told that his "stunt" for the lack of a better word was not reversible and that he was going to die.

When I first heard about it I was angry, angry at Peter for pulling such a stupid stunt that would result in such pain for his family. Peter was eighteen when he died, just after celebrating his 18th birthday a few nights before, he was preparing for his last set of State exams before going on to college. Here was a person who had his whole life ahead of him, and he threw it all away over a stupid argument.

Other than Peter, back when I was in primary school the brother of a classmate of mine committed suicide, he'd been going through bad depression and saw suicide as the one way he could end his suffering. Darragh was only eleven or twelve when his brother killed himself, and to this day more than seven years later I can still see the effects his brother's suicide inflicted on him. Darragh went from being a happy, normal boy to being so quiet it was hard to get more than a few words out of him at any given time.

Suicide is a tragic thing, because it can't be undone no matter how much you wish it could be. The pain of the person who commits suicide is over, but the pain it causes the family and friends is only beginning, and that pain sometimes never goes away. Life is a gift, unlike how many people treat it, because nobody knows exactly how long they have. And I'm not talking as some Roman Catholic who's just spurting my dogmatic view of the situation, I've known terrible depression, and at times during that depression I wanted to kill myself because I felt to inadequate and I didn't want to go on feeling that way.

I got through it because I know what suicide does to the people you know, and I didn't want to put my family though the pain suicide causes. As James said in the majority of cases depression and suicide are treatable, but that person has to want to be treated and all the dogma spewed and heartfelt pleas will not make one damn bit of difference if they don't.

Suicide is wrong for so many reasons, it cheapens life, the life of the person and those around them. It's never the answer that people think it will be, because once you're dead that's it, either you're a believer like me and you think the person goes to Hell or you're an non-believer and you mourn the fact that such a precious thing as life has been wasted. I'm not going to try and change anybody's mind because in the end suicide is what you make of it.[/SIZE]

[Chaos]

[QUOTE=Retribution][SIZE=1]Chaos, you didn't quite understand what I meant. I know that some suicides are inevitable, and I never said otherwise. I was more stressing at the point that [i]some people[/i] have been saved by intervention. Of course there will always be the tragic case of someone being hell-bent on killing themselves.

But your closing remark confounds me. You said that [i]anything[/i] is possible if the right steps are taken. Does that mean you contradicted your point in the previous paragraph?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Eh, I took your words literally in order to make a point, not so much as to single you out for a "mistake," so please don't think I did. But to the question you bring up, I honestly am not sure. I've seen footage of a guy surviving a grenade blast to the face and have heard stories of people dying because of a glass shard smaller than a pinhead, so I would have to agree that just about [i]anything[/i] is possible...ninty-nine percent of the time. Like it has been mentioned before, saving someone is only possible if the person [b]wants[/b] to be saved. But even then, you could probably report them to a mental institution and have them placed under watch. But even then they could find some way of killing themselves.

I suppose it's not as literal as "anything" or "never", but close enough that the statements are justified. So, your point is made and noted, and yes, perhaps I should have said [u]nearly anything.[/u] Heh. It's all in due, I suppose.

[maverickwarrior]

I don't believe in suicide... I've had friends who have attempted to (two succeeded) commit suicide in the past, plus I made an attempt myself on one occasion. Now that I really think things through I think it's ridiculous.

If you commit suicide, your life is over. There's no second chance for happiness... It'd be better to live your life and try to make it better than to just simply end it. You only have one life so you may as well make it last.

I especially don't care for suicide if it's just a means to get attention... That's just stuipid and incredibly self-centered.

Suicide is so selfish... A lot of people think "oh, no one will miss me if I'm gone" but that's practically never true.

[Hells Angel]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=DarkOrange]To some people it may seem a ticket to freedom. Although as some of you may know committing suicide sends you to hell because it is a sin. I dont think its the easy way out of life issues although some may think it is. It is actually the hard way, because no matter how much they may deny it, someone out there cares about them, and doesnt want them to go. I dont think people should be able to choose between life or death, then a lot of people I love dearly would be gone. NO I WOULDNT OKAY THEIR CHOICE TO DIE THAT IS INSANE[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]

:catgirl:

[Rasetsutaisho]

i would make a long rant, but this is my first day on this forum and theres a lot to look at so... i'll be brief

its always been my thought that all types of ppl exist... including those who dont want to exist... to me were all like variations of some holy light falling through a prisim. this prisim turns out all sorts of different, infinite colors... thats my analogy for the different types of ppl in the world... if you notice theres never a black hue in a prisim... just like you dont see ppl who really want to seriously kill themselves... because their dead...

honestly i didnt read all of the posts only the first one... and i know this is kinda sad but if it were me in that sort of situation i wouldnt have really done anything... i figure if that person wants to be dead let them do it... for whatever reson they have, just let them do it... stoping them is going to be a hassle and its going to just as much of a hassle if they do it...

but i have to admit... i'm not quite like the person who made that first post... i too was abuse when i was little... not like she was... it was more of a neglect thing (that explains alot...) but anyways... i've had every thing i loved ripped away multipule times, i've spent probably way more time alone by the time i was 5 than most anyone i know... so to me... ppl arnt that important... to me life and death arnt all that big of a deal...

its odd because i know if i died a lot of ppl would mourn... but if they all died... i'd live my life normaly...

oh well... were all different... maybe i just played ff8 too many times

[Charles]

A long post! Oh noes!!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that many of you don't seem to understand suicide at all--even those of you who claim to have suicidal friends or relatives. What I see here can be equated to me sitting here and trying to explain the stock market to everyone when I know very little about Wall Street. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on the subject of suicide myself. I'm not a psychologist nor am I suicidal. I do, however, have common sense and I will apply it where others have failed to do so.

What I see here are people using Heaven and Hell as arguments, claiming that God has a direct role in our daily activities. I think that in and of itself is a mistake considering that this is a very human-oriented problem. We're not puppets exclusively guided by divine entities. If we were then we wouldn't have psychologically complex issues such as suicide to contemplate in the first place, now would we? Although faith can play a positive role in helping individuals overcome suicide by adding a level of meaning and comfort to their lives, I'm sure that the reason they're considering suicide to begin with revolves around real-world issues that must be resolved first. Once you begin to use religion against them, by telling them that they're going to hell, you're converting religion into a negative instrument. I don't like the idea of threatening people with religion to tell them how wrong they are or how obligated they are to continue living based on religious doctrine. It sounds very elitist and preachy. Why don't more people help to improve all aspects of someone's life, introducing the suicidal to the positive, uplifting dimension of faith as a part of achieving that end? Above all else though, I think that the best cure for suicide is intimate, human care. Something less detached.

I also see posts, from Amity for example, that label suicidal people as "idiots" or buffoons. What a way to simplify such a serious problem.

[quote]If someone wants to be that much of a dolt to consider committing suicide, I say let them. Why? Because it's stupid for wanting to end your life. I may not know that person, or how their life was, what it's like, how it is with them, why they would WANT to commit suicide. But don't you think it's STUPID for wanting to take your own life KNOWING that you don't get a second chance at it? That is pure ignorance. Doing something utterly stupid when knowing what the outcome will be.[/quote]

I don't believe that suicide has much to do with sound intelligence or reasoning. Obviously something as severe as a suicidal condition permits me to believe that people suffering from such tendencies aren't in their right minds to begin with. Their ability to make sound judgements is going to be inhibited by their suffering. In any case, you've answered your own question.

If I hated my life enough to end it with my own hand, I wouldn't want to come back to begin with. At least, not while I was approaching the act of suicide itself. My theory is a common one, in that I feel that many people are just looking to gain attention through suicide. They feel that their life is missing something--something they don't feel they can ever achieve. Or perhaps they have problems they feel they can't correct through any means other than suicide. Maybe they're mistreated or abused on a daily basis by the ones they should be able to trust the most. Maybe they can't love themselves and they feel that they'll be doing the world a great big favor by ending their lives. Maybe they're experiencing a misery so profound that they just want to die instead of continuining to endure it.

My point is that you can't think about suicide as a rational, mentally healthy person and judge people from that perspective because of course you won't understand it. And when you don't understand something, it's easy to call it "stupid." When someone's willing to take their own life, it's anything but idiotic. It's one of the most, tragic, pathetic, and most complex issues we can possibly face as human beings.

I don't know, I just guess it disgusts me when people act completely apathetic and say they're not willing to help someone because it's their choice to die. It's not their choice because they're not in the proper mental health to make that choice! Barring anything related to euthanasia, rarely does anyone [i]want[/i] to die. They may [i]believe[/i] they do but, as I said above, they're just missing something from their lives.

[kenshinsbabe]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]Exactly, James. Bravo.

There are people here who've been saying that if someone wants to commit suicide, to let them. If it's your friend or your family member, would you still feel the same way?

On another note, my sister got a random IM from a person a few days ago from a teenage boy. In the IM, he said that he was sending it to say goodbye. That in ten minutes, he would kill his parents, his grandmother, then himself. But he never gave a reason. Scared as hell, I went and prayed for him. It only scared me because someone was actually [I]telling[/I] me that they were going to kill other people, then themself. After I prayed for ten minutes, I went and talked to my sister, who told me that he didn't do it. I was relieved.

Until I talked to a friend who got the same IM that night. She said that he had said the exact same thing a few months ago, then didn't do it. Which leads me to believe that he only said it for attention.

People like this are the people that stem the idea that suicide is mostly selfish, which I reed into time to time when I hear stories like this. But what I know is that alot of people aren't like that boy, but are depressed or are "missing something". That still doesn't justify suicide, which makes them almost as bad as the said boy.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[Rasetsutaisho]

[QUOTE=Charles]A long post! Oh noes!!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that many of you don't seem to understand suicide at all--even those of you who claim to have suicidal friends or relatives. What I see here can be equated to me sitting here and trying to explain the stock market to everyone when I know very little about Wall Street.[/QUOTE]

i still say if anyone wants to kill themselve seriously let them do it... they want it let them have it...

ppl just arnt as important as everyone makes them

[Charles]

[QUOTE=Rasetsutaisho]i still say if anyone wants to kill themselve seriously let them do it... they want it let them have it...

ppl just arnt as important as everyone makes them[/QUOTE]

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