Anime 4kids

[narutobleachfan]

alright, i wanted to create this thread to discuss how u fell about and wut u think of 4kids and wut u think that might end up doing to up coming anime on cartoon network. i mean they've messed up anime before (one piece), they've even messed up names! y would they feel the need to change a name from "zoro" to "zolo"?! but my piont is, wut do expect of 4kids in the future? do u think they will be accuretly bringing new anime series to the states or completely killing series by cutting them to pieces?

[IceRose]

4kids is doing a most horrible job on translating anime names, objects and story lines. If they keep it up like this they are in serious problems.

[Dagger]

Hm... this might fit under the umbrella of the other recent editing thread, but I'll leave that up to Solo's discretion.

Please don't spread false information. [b]4Kids does not have the license to Naruto[/b]--and if they did, it would air on Fox rather than CN. Viz Entertainment is the company which has licensed the series. The individual DVDs will be edited, but the box sets will be uncut & bilingual.

I don't think it's particularly difficult to predict 4Kids' future activity, haha. They're never going to target the niche fan market--that's just not where the real money lies, at least from their perspective. They've made their position on the matter pretty clear, as far as I'm concerned. FUNimation was allowed to produce uncut DVDs of a couple of their series, but I believe that all of those were releases have been stalled or stopped altogether.

Also, [b]IceRose[/b], I'm going to have to disagree with you there. One Piece didn't exactly do well in the ratings, but financially I'm sure they're quite secure. If anything, their strategy will leave them far better off than many of the fan favorite companies who may lack the resources to continue struggling through the current market slump. Does this make me happy? No, but it's the way things are.

~Dagger~

[narutobleachfan]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Hm... this might fit under the umbrella of the other recent editing thread, but I'll leave that up to Solo's discretion.

Please don't spread false information. [b]4Kids does not have the license to Naruto[/b]--and if they did, it would air on Fox rather than CN. Viz Entertainment is the company which has licensed the series. The individual DVDs will be edited, but the box sets will be uncut & bilingual.

I don't think it's particularly difficult to predict 4Kids' future activity, haha. They're never going to target the niche fan market--that's just not where the real money lies, at least from their perspective. They've made their position on the matter pretty clear, as far as I'm concerned. FUNimation was allowed to produce uncut DVDs of a couple of their series, but I believe that all of those were releases have been stalled or stopped altogether.

Also, [b]IceRose[/b], I'm going to have to disagree with you there. One Piece didn't exactly do well in the ratings, but financially I'm sure they're quite secure. If anything, their strategy will leave them far better off than many of the fan favorite companies who may lack the resources to continue struggling through the current market slump. Does this make me happy? No, but it's the way things are.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

thank u for clarifing who has the liscence to naruto altho i didn't ask, and i wasn't refering to naruto soecifically and the reason i thought that is because one of my friends, who nows a lot more about anime than me told me that and i thought i could trust so i wasn't intentionally spredding false information, fyi and i've just changed, i don't mind if u point out things that are wrong, infact, i thank you for it, just don't assumeing that i did it intentionally

[Sage Kaley]

Actually the One Piece name change wasn't really a name change so to speak. L's and R's in Japanese are the same. (The sound is a mix of them when you say it) So really Zoro and Zolo are both just fine, as would be Rena and Lena for another name example.

4kids is a company that's only using anime and other shows to target a very general range of children for profits. It's not in the game to stay true to the source material.

That said, as Dagger pointed out there are some uncut DVDs (I own a few) and those are very nice. They were stalled though so who knows if they'll continue release or not. The uncut versions appeal to a niche market...

[r2vq]

[quote name='Sage Kaley']Actually the One Piece name change wasn't really a name change so to speak. L's and R's in Japanese are the same. (The sound is a mix of them when you say it) So really Zoro and Zolo are both just fine, as would be Rena and Lena for another name example.[/quote]

Same goes in Shaman King's Len/Ren.

I always assumed that the main reason they used "Zolo" instead of "Zoro" is because there is already a popularized swordsman named Zorro. They might be afraid of arguments at the copyright courts.

-ArV

[narutobleachfan]

[QUOTE=r2vq]Same goes in Shaman King's Len/Ren.

I always assumed that the main reason they used "Zolo" instead of "Zoro" is because there is already a popularized swordsman named Zorro. They might be afraid of arguments at the copyright courts.

-ArV[/QUOTE]
thats wut my first thought was

[Vampire_Miyu285]

MY GOD!! 4kidsTV suxs!!! the only good thing on there is Shaman King and that's it!!! i want to stab the idiot who made that program so badly!! *punches fist together* GRR!!

[Rick Hunter]

Well I never thought there would be another anime company out there worst then when Funimation drop the ball on various franchises like Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho. But congratulations 4kids you've earned the title of worst company taking the spot that funimation once held in my heart. At least Funimation started correcting mistakes recently with introducing Uncut dvds.

4kids animation is just horrible, any anime that once had serious undertones they turn into a kiddy cartoon. They basically single handedly ruined Yugioh cutting out the first season and then giving us a supposidly uncut dvd that -.- was uncut but not uncensored. Then there is the One Piece snafu....they turned all the serious characters into jokes. Not to meantion gave it a ridiculous opening theme.

This is why american companies should not be left with the handling of anime. They constantly drop the ball. Give me a region 2 dvd over the shoddy american products any day.

[HellsAngel14]

I hate 4kids soooooo much. They screw up every thing. Expecally shaman king and one piece. Like how do you get zeke out of hao. Or trey out of horohoro. :mad: I hate them sooo muck. Well I think I made my point. :animeswea

[Guest sailor pan]

4kids is worst dubbing company in the world. They complely killed my favorie anime Tokyo Mew Mew. to...to...many...mew..puns... :animecry:

[Dagger]

[quote name='Rick Hunter']...when Funimation drop the ball on various franchises like Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho.[/quote]
Um, what's wrong with Funi's release of YYH? The episode count is far from stellar, but that aside the DVDs aren't significantly worse than those from other companies.

[quote]This is why american companies should not be left with the handling of anime. They constantly drop the ball. Give me a region 2 dvd over the shoddy american products any day.[/QUOTE]
Heh. You know what that reminds me of? There's a saying--nobody ruins anime like the Japanese. It's meant to be facetious, obviously, but when it comes to R1 releases it's completely true. Toei is a prime example of this; they entered the market with incredibly "shoddy" DVDs and are now putting their launch titles (Air Master & Slam Dunk) on hold for re-evaluation, thanks to deservedly low sales. Synch-Point, which I believe is the American division of some Japanese company, has done an unbelievably horrible job of putting out I'm Gonna Be an Angel. Does year-long breaks between discs sound like fun to you?

Anyway. As for R2s, that's easier said than done, my friend. Yeah, they're are great--if you understand Japanese (or are willing to hunt down timed scripts, assuming any even exist) and have an R2 player or a DVD-capable laptop which you're willing to devote solely to R2s, not to mention a wallet the size of Mount Everest. R2J DVDs are just not a realistic option for most people. And speaking for myself, I like having the option to watch DVDs dubbed.

With that out of the way, do enlighten me--how does 4Kids plus the distant past version of FUNimation lead you to the conclusion that American companies are "constantly drop[ping] the ball"? The number of anime acquired & released by 4Kids is quite frankly piddling compared to how much is aquired & released by better companies. FUNimation is now almost on par with Geneon, and even so their slate of series is comparatively small. I just don't see where you're coming from here. And your general reference to "shoddy American products" is at best rather insulting.

~Dagger~

[Rick Hunter]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Um, what's wrong with Funi's release of YYH? The episode count is far from stellar, but that aside the DVDs aren't significantly worse than those from other companies.
[/QUOTE]

Took it exactly how long to be released over in american shores? Last I checked the series was released in the early 90s. We just recently saw Yu Yu start being released in 2002. Also if you've ever actually picked up a Yu Yu Hakusho dvd from funimation you'll notice the extras they provied are sub-par Textless openings and endings. Are nothing compared to the Japanese dvd releases. They actually give worthwhile commentary on their dvds such as audio commentary.

But if you want a really good example of Funimation's past screw up look no further then Dragon Ball Z? Dragon Ball Z has been out since even longer then Yu Yu Hakusho. Since the day funimation got their hands on it they could of released the "uncut" versions of the first season. Instead of going back to the beginning though they went further into the series which okay is better then starting all over. However have you ever tried to actually purchase the Dragon Ball Z Box-Sets in english? They have various box sets for each season all priced well over the hundred range. On these dvds you'll find the same lame extras from the domestic dvds such as "music videos".

Have you ever looked at the Dragon Box set out in Japan? Remastered video and all the episodes of dbz comprised into one box set ranging around $250.00-$300.00. Ironically included in those box sets are tons of extras ranging from audio commentary to original artwork. And behind the scenes footage stuff that...sadly your good company Funimation doesn't put in their dvds. Now why from a consumers point of view would I want to pay almost double the amount for various box sets with less features. It just doesn't add up right?

[quote name='Dagger']Does year-long breaks between discs sound like fun to you?[/quote]

It doesn't sound fun to me but wouldn't you perfer a superior product for your money's worth then getting ripped off or cheated with a shoddy product? This is a standard practice with certain dvds that come out even in america. How long did it take for them to release the Star Wars trilogy on dvd but no one complained about it. Wouldn't you perfer quality over quantity when purchasing an anime? I rather have 4 episodes on a disk that take eight months to come out over a disc that's got 2 episodes thats released every six months. I rather have my company not rush through a series only to feel disapointed and weighed down by my wallet.

[quote name='Dagger]With that out of the way, do enlighten me--how does 4Kids plus the distant past version of FUNimation lead you to the conclusion that American companies are "constantly drop[ping'] the ball"? The number of anime acquired & released by 4Kids is quite frankly piddling compared to how much is aquired & released by better companies. [/quote]

No offense but I certainly hope you don't base your opinion on how good a company is based on how many aquisitions title wise they have. You should focus on how they are producing a title. You should focus on the extras they release not to meantion the prices. You should look for the quaility of the product not how much they produce and how long it takes them to put it out.

As I stated before in this thread 4-Kids animation has done a terrible job as far as marketing is concerned with titles. They turned serious animes such as Yugioh and One Piece into children's anime. All for the sake of appealing to soccer moms and making money off them. Have you actually sat down and watched either of those shows or any of the shows 4-kids animation has put out in it's original format? You'll find that the scripts not to meantion characters are changed so drastically.

And if you really don't believe me and will aruge at least they have a japanese audio track with on par subtitles. Your wrong, if you take a look at various subtitle companies you'll find the subtitles to be all but acurate most of them are actually based on the english dub. That's what's wrong with 4-kids animation, now if they were like other companies such as ADV which was founded based on Anime fans who started as fan subs. They actually stay true to anime and don't alter it.

This all boils down to two points in the end:

A.)Anime in america is considered a Business, they're out to cheat the consumers. That's why you have titles going for $30.00 with shoddy results. Me being a consumer believes we are entitled to the best which is why I opt for region 2s. Now I understand most people don't have that option, but for at least myself I have this option and find myself to save quite a bit on money. Why would I go buy dvds produced by Funi and 4-Kids animation only to find out they have nothing of what I'm looking for in a dvd on their disc?

B.)You may not agree with my bashing of 4-kids animation and funimation. But I'm sure you're going to find a lot of people out there that agree with my beliefs. And in fact half the people in this topic agreed they dislike the way 4-kids is handling their products. At least I took the time to actually write out a detail thought then give one worded post.

Now not to get off topic in this thread. If you would like to continue this debate further Dagger we should do so via Pm or aim and not this thread. I'd like to debate this some more and give more detail into how companies in american handle anime. Since we are I believe getting off topic quite a bit.

[Dagger]

As far as I'm concerned it's not off-topic, seeing how well over half your post is devoted to 4Kids (the subject of this thread). I think there's room here for talking a bit about American companies in general (similar to how the "anime in America" thread, which covered more or less the same ground as this one, started to become something different: a debate about whether or not censorship is ever appropriate). Especially since the "OMG 4Kids, American companies suck" comments are all but inevitable. But if you really really want to switch this to PM, then I'll respect your request. Alternatively, I can split the thread. It's up to you.

[quote]Took it exactly how long to be released over in american shores? Last I checked the series was released in the early 90s. We just recently saw Yu Yu start being released in 2002.[/quote]
So basically you're blaming FUNimation [i]for when they licensed it[/i]? That really doesn't make very much sense. :animeswea

[quote] Also if you've ever actually picked up a Yu Yu Hakusho dvd from funimation you'll notice the extras they provied are sub-par Textless openings and endings. Are nothing compared to the Japanese dvd releases. They actually give worthwhile commentary on their dvds such as audio commentary.[/quote]
I own up to the end of the Dark Tournament & have the Chapter Black box set pre-ordered. You do realize that not all R2s are loaded with extras, right? Similarly, not all R1s are devoid of extras--although if that's your main beef, I don't understand why you're picking on FUNimation as opposed to, say, Geneon; Funi has put out extra-riffic DVDs before (see Fruits Basket), while Geneon pretty much always sticks to textless OPs/EDs and physical goodies like mini-pencilboards or figures. Not that I don't love them anyway. The point is, however, that one generally has to pay through the nose for R2 extras. I'll take a dub, subtitles and relatively dirt-cheap prices over some audio commentary which very well could end up getting ported over to R1-land, anyway.

[quote]Remastered video and all the episodes of dbz comprised into one box set ranging around $250.00-$300.00.[/quote]
Funny you should say that. CD Japan has it listed for 10,000 yen (about $900), and I know they don't mark up their products [i]that[/i] much. It also makes me question whether you actually own a copy of the Dragon Box you spend at least a paragraph praising. So again, this is a case of paying through the nose for the extras which you seem to hold in such high regard. There's nothing wrong with that (people are allowed to have personal preferences and so forth, maybe you enjoy spending money on R2s), but it's still no reason to bash R1s. I like extras well enough myself, and it's always nice to get a disc bursting with extras (such as Planetes or the final volume of Revolutionary Girl Utena or the first Yugo the Negotiator DVD--extra-heavy R1s do exist, you know!). But--and I'm sure we'll agree on this count--it's the content which ultimately matters most.

[quote]No offense but I certainly hope you don't base your opinion on how good a company is based on how many aquisitions title wise they have.[/quote]
Um, how did you reach this conclusion? I was arguing that it's unfair to attack American companies in general just because 4Kids sucks, since the amount of product put out by 4Kids is tiny compared to the amount of product put out by everyone else. What it boils down to is that the number of high-quality, fully uncut, bilingual R1 releases out there totally dwarfs the number of cut and/or dub-only releases.

And there's no need to try and convince me that 4Kids is bad news; I'm not sure what in any of my posts led you to think otherwise, but I'm perfectly aware of the company's flaws.

[quote]A.)Anime in america is considered a Business, they're out to cheat the consumers. That's why you have titles going for $30.00 with shoddy results.[/quote]

This is what makes me have trouble taking you seriously. News flash... anime is a business in Japan, too! That's why bishoujo titles cost so much more than Shounen Jump anime--it's because companies know that lonely otaku are willing to really cough it up for their [i]moe[/i] fix. That's why the AIR movie is coming out in not one, but three over-priced versions. (Each of the two highest-priced ones has different, non-overlapping and almost equally appealing extras, so you have to buy both to get all of them. It's annoying as heck for the consumer, but it's a brilliant business decision). That's why Gainax willl never, ever tire of milking Evangelion for all it's worth (heard of Project ShitoXX?).

I would argue that American companies are not out to cheat consumers, certainly not any more than Japanese companies are. And you still haven't elaborated on what makes R1s so shoddy, extras aside. If one ignores 4Kids (for editing & etc.) and FUNimation (because you have some kind of vendetta against them), then what's left? Are you a major videophile (i.e. does dot-crawl make you want to scream)? A dub-hater? Do you buy enough current R1 DVDs to be able to judge them fairly, or do you stick primarily to R2s? I'm simply trying to figure out where you're coming from, as I said in my earlier post.

[quote]B.)You may not agree with my bashing of 4-kids animation and funimation. But I'm sure you're going to find a lot of people out there that agree with my beliefs. And in fact half the people in this topic agreed they dislike the way 4-kids is handling their products.[/quote]
4Kids suck. We were never in disagreement on that.

I am going to say that it's completely unfair to lump together 4Kids (butchered shows, butchered releases) with FUNimation. Just about the only main complaint one can have about today's FUNimation, aside from your thing about extras (which is basically the price one pays for getting your anime with a dub and subtitles for far, far less than what the R2s cost), is video quality. But unless you're a huge videophile, I can promise you that you're not going to notice the difference. Video quality is the only thing which really sets them apart from, say, Geneon, which many people take to be the pinnacle of R1 excellence.

Here's why you should stop referring to Funi and 4Kids in the same breath. Want Japanese extras? Awesome. Want to pay a lower price? Great. Guess what Funi is doing with their release of GONZO's Samurai 7? Yup, they're mirroring the R2s almost exactly. So for a lower disc count and significantly lower prices, the LEs will offer the same extras (including art booklets, individual artboxes for each DVD, a very long storyboard book for every single episode) as the R2s. Personally I think that's pretty cool, if perhaps a bit excessive. If you're looking for a company that gives you Japanese extras at R1 prices, right now FUNimation is probably your best bet.

I do own some R2s. But I would never buy the R2s for a series which had been licensed by a reliable company (i.e. not 4Kids), because I find the majority of R1s to be just fine and dandy, at least for my purposes. Maybe you don't, and I'm not attempting to convince you to like R1s better--I just wish you wouldn't use such harsh words ("shoddy," for example) in reference to them, as I don't see much of a basis for your contempt.

Again, I respectfully submit that one should not pass judgment on all R1 companies merely because 4Kids is the bane of many an anime fan's existence. Yes, 4Kids is not the company from whom one should want to buy one's DVDs, but there is much better stuff out there, and in sheer volume it honestly towers over what 4Kids is squeezing out.

~Dagger~

[Killer7]

4 kids-look at the name, come on thier goal is to americanize and unadulterize anime for younger kids, and thier biggest market is home video. Tell me, does a 9-year old kid care about commentary? No, so why put it in. Anyway much of the anime they do was terrible in the first place, Yu-gi-oh and Pokemon come to mind.

[hidaboy]

okay, I'm not defending 4kids but it the best non-cable households can get. One more thing i think someone should create an anime only channel. :cool:

[Dagger]

[quote name='hidaboy']okay, I'm not defending 4kids but it the best non-cable households can get. One more thing i think someone should create an anime only channel. :cool:[/quote]
Well, seeing how as 4Kids series are basically the [i]only[/i] anime that Americans who lack cable can get on television, I suppose they must also technically be the best. Still--and I know you said you weren't defending them--phrasing it like that is a bit misleading. :animeswea

There is an anime-only cable/VoD channel, by the way (ADV's Anime Network). It's not available everywhere, though.

~Dagger~

[kayutori_sama]

The age old 4kids debate, at one point in time it will be seen on every anime forum. In a sense this discussion is almost inevitable. I'm not going to say what 4kids is doing is necessarily the best thing and condone them , but you can't condemn them and tell them they are pure evil either. Many people are angry and not happy with the way 4Kids treats anime, but you can not tell them not to do it. Like Dagger said some people do not have the option of cable and the go to Foxbox or KidsWb for their anime "fix". Going ballistic and saying you want to burn down 4kids productions will not accomplish anything. Instead of acting like " OmG 4kids SUX So BaD" do something about it. Write a petition .Get people who feel the same way about it to sign it. Be mature about it. Acting like newbie fanboys/fangirls will not stop 4kids from picking up anime , slapping on a bad dub, and airing it on Saturday morning tv.

[Semjaza]

I suppose the only nice thing about this company is that they are generally responsible for the first localized anime series most people in the US have seen. In a sense, they're kind of a gateway to other anime and would perhaps encourage people to look deeper into what is out there.

However, it certainly isn't something they're directly trying to do, from what I can tell. It's kind of just an indirect result. They're getting it on TV, at least, which is a start. I'm not a big fan of editing anything and the idea presented here that they don't even offer uncut DVDs disgusts me, but again, it's a start. I'm sure a large amount of people on this website would never watch a lot of what they do now if it wasn't for 4Kids attempts (albeit poor attempts).

I don't know how to write this in a way that makes 4Kids look like a shoddy company that still somehow manages to get more people into other anime at the same time lol.

[omegax]

I don't really give a care about them.

[Killer7]

Really if you hate thier Dubs that much, just buy the Japanese version with subs. They are usually better no matter what anyway, less editing, better voices, and maybe a few nifty extras. I don't see how anyone cares anyway. 4kids does mostly animes made for younger kids, or based towards them. Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, and whatever else they make aren't exactly brain food. They don't have great animation, music, or characters either. They are simple and fun waus for kids to get involved in anime, and usually have some merchandise (trading cards, video games, etc.).

[annatheitako]

[quote name='hidaboy']okay, I'm not defending 4kids but it the best non-cable households can get. One more thing i think someone should create an anime only channel. :cool:[/quote]
i so agree!!!! 4 kids is ok but i hate how they change the names!!! that scks :animecry:

[Kai123]

:animeangr theres nothing worng with that because they changed their names to english. so u just cant blame them for that :catgirl:

[Dagger]

Let's try to watch the post quality in this thread. Not all one-liners are by definition spam, but those which totally lack substance, are littered with misspellings or are just plain difficult to read will certainly risk being deleted. I'm going to consider this a general warning, so please don't make me act on it.

[quote name='Kai123']:animeangr theres nothing worng with that because they changed their names to english. so u just cant blame them for that :catgirl:[/quote]
Name changes, while irritating, are a small issue compared to some of the other things 4Kids has done--a vast slate of offenses ranging from horrifically ugly visual edits to excessive localization to completely bastardizing the storyline/characters of a show in order to best suit their nefarious purposes.

(Wanting to turn a profit is far from being truly nefarious, when you get right down to it, but I've always wanted to use that word in this context. Do forgive me.)

If name changes were all 4Kids did, people would still complain, but I doubt the company would be as passionately hated.

[quote name='Killer7']Really if you hate thier Dubs that much, just buy the Japanese version with subs. [/quote]
I assume you are referring to FUNimation's uncut DVDs? Unfortunately, those seem to have stopped coming out, at least for the time being. If you don't have Funi's stuff in mind, I can only suppose that you must be talking about bootlegs, since I can't think of any 4Kids anime whose R2 DVDs come with English subtitles. And obviously bootlegs aren't even worthy of being a last resort. :)

~Dagger~

[Killer7]

Actually I was talking of region 1 or region 0 anime dvds. Nowadays thier alot of good region 1 or 0 dvds with Japanese voice and english subs. Now I don't know much about bootlegs, but I will buy it as long as it has an actual customized case.

Aside from that, at one time a few years ago I bought "uncut" versions of of DBZ. Later when those episodes came on Cartoon Network, their was NO diference. I don't necessairily know if that is Dragonball Z (even though in some Japanese versions of the DBZ movies thier was ALOT of cursing) but it has kinda turned me from UNcut versions, it is just easier to buy the whole boxset anyway.