Manga Yaoi and Such discussions

[Yukina123]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid] ^_^ Okay. This one's bound to be a heated one. SO please, state your opinion in a calm manner so the admins don't get mad at us. ^_^ I think I'm taking quite a risk by putting this up, period. :animeswea hehe.

^_^ I've made a banner for people like me on MyOtaku if you wish to see it. Basically, what I'm trying to say with it is, "I'm not against you, but I don't support you." I'm what you would call neutral. I'm biased, neither for, nor against, yaoi and the like. Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing. ^_^ People are allowed to feel how they want to towards whoever they want to. But that doesn't mean that at some level it's violating natural law. I'm not going to go into religion. I think that many people who don't like it, don't like it for the wrong reasons, but I think that some people may have valid reasons to dislike it. Sometimes it makes people uncomfortable. People who support it, tend to be a little too open with it and shove it in people's faces. That isn't nice. Just because one is proud of one's opinion, doesn't mean one should harm another's feelings with it. ^_^ I hope I'm making any sense at all. And I hope I don't get any flaming private messages for this. Thanks for your time.[/COLOR]

[Katamari666]

yeah but it all depends on the readers pov no? if they have a problem with it they shouldent have picked it up in the first place but.... well im not against it ...hell its actually funny !!! :animeswea kudos yuki -chan

[duoikari]

i'm hearing you, i love Yaoi and have been in love with it for many years now and i know people that are shall we say... carefully about it.

The only people in the world who know that i like yaoi is my best friend and this is because she likes it as well, but when i tried to discuss it with other people they seem shy of the subject. I both write, read and draw yaoi and i resently added a yaoi image to the fanart of gundam wing, which got a bad comment of one person but people must understand what it is like.

Yaoi is not just two men having it off with each other, it goes deeper then that. But I would like to point out that no one ever complains about Hentai?, or yuri?, Yaoi is just the same as them but it is aimed at gays and girls more. So i would just like to say this to both the boys and girls of the board. Next time you see a Yaoi images or a manga just think about what that stands for, it is not just a cheap way of someone getting a thrill. It is a manga or an image that someone has put alot of work into and if it's dirty or not you should respect it. I myself don't like Hentai but i don't condem every man women or child that has ever read or looked at it.

I think people should be more open about the subject of Yaoi, because i don't hear anyone complaining about the big breasted women or the girl based anime that are coming out now.

[Katamari666]

yeah guys like yuri ... girls like yaoi who gives a crap its just expression so enjoy it ...this is the inner workings of our minds expressing outwards. :animeswea

[duoikari]

[quote name='Katamari666']yeah guys like yuri ... girls like yaoi who gives a crap its just expression so enjoy it ...this is the inner workings of our minds expressing outwards. :animeswea[/quote]

Yeah and i bet if you told a boy that you like Yaoi they would totally freak, but it would be alright for them to like Hentai

[Yukina123]

[quote name='duoikari']Yaoi is not just two men having it off with each other, it goes deeper then that. But I would like to point out that no one ever complains about Hentai?, or yuri?, Yaoi is just the same as them but it is aimed at gays and girls more.[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid] Agreed. It's not all about sex, but that is the main objective. Hentai and yuri are what we are addressing. Yaoi is an easier word to remember, so it has a broader meaning than just manxman. Hentai, is very different. That is japanese porn. Okay? That has nothing to do with romance or emotion. That's pure erotica and should be paid no mind. ^_^ Good to hear someone who likes it is open about it![/COLOR]

[kayutori_sama]

I just recently got into yaoi (via Gravitation, Tokyo Babylon, Legal Drug ect.) At first I was a tad put off by the whole thing, but then I read more and more yaoi (shounen-ai) titles. Then I slowly began to see the better side of yaoi. i'm not saying I love yaoi 110 %, but I accept it. I will take yaoi anyday over yuri or hentai. Yaoi unlike yuri or hentai actually has emotions and feelings to it. Hentai and yuri are all about the physical side of the relationship.

[Dagger]

There are some misconceptions floating around here, I think.

Part of the problem lies with the terminology. Some American companies use "yaoi" as an umbrella term for everything from light BL to really uber explicit material; others market their manga as shounen-ai. It seems pretty random to me--from what I can tell, only DMP is consistent about it; they've done a good job of making their yaoi brand distinct and easily recognizable. Tokyopop's new Blu line might turn out to be something similar.

Fans often try to distinguish between shounen-ai and yaoi, saying that yaoi is the gay subdivision of hentai and that shounen-ai is the stuff with, you know, characters & a story. Personally I feel that by now the terms have become hopelessly confused; some people will pounce on you if you use yaoi to mean anything other than a category of hentai, while others pretty much refuse to admit the fact that plenty of BL is indeed just a specialized form of hentai.

Boys' love is the term used most commonly in Japan, and it functions better than yaoi as a sort of catch-all phrase.

~Dagger~

[Sage Kaley]

Personally I love yaoi, shounen-ai, boys love, whichever you prefer to call it. Mind you though I also like the polar end and everything inbetween. I'm a romance junkie and the more angst and passion you can stuff into a romance, the more I enjoy it.

That said, some of the best angst is found within yaoi based manga. The whole forbidden thing adds a lot to that. Then usually the romances themselves are just plain angsty anyway...yeah.

But like I said, I love romance and love stories so for me, it's just another opinion to explore. I think people who get freaked out by a girl liking yaoi is looking at it wrong. It's just love. Well ok some of it out there is just sex but that's a whole 'nother deal. For me it's just the suspense and the passion.

Which reminds me, I need to finish off the Gravitation manga. (wanders off)

[duoikari]

I agree with what everyone has said here, i mean yoai is starting to become more popular amung girls and we can't forget boys as well. Although most people agree that there are two sides to Yaoi there is the non-sexual side and the just plain people doint it throught the whole thing. I like both but i can stand a yaoi or shouen comic that is just boring, the only one that i can think of that is like that is a manga that i read about a boy who had an accident and lost both of his parents and is now living with his doctor who is also his lover. It was a good story, but there was too much talking in it and it was very hard to follow.

The only manga that i have read that i feel fully shows what yaoi means and how two men could feel towards each other is Pretty scoop, there is most proberly others but i've only been reading original for a few days. Pretty scoop is about a young boy who got a camera for his mother when he was little, but it was a girls camera and he hated it. Unfortunely his mom died when he was young, but one day he took a picture of a robber and everyone prasied him for it. So he made it his goal in life to take pictures and get a big scoop so his mom would be pround of him, to do this he even transfered school. That's when he meets Akira, a boy that looks scary but has a heart of gold, these two are paired up with each other and that has the manga starts.

At first both boys are arwkard with each other one of them see to men having it off in a bush and he thinks it's nasty, but both warm up to each other and they both make each other happy.

And that my friends is what Yaoi is all about

[color=red][i]link removed[/i][/color]

[color=navy][size=1]Please don't post links to scanlations, licensed or not. Thanks.

- Dagger[/size][/color]

[Yukina123]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Part of the problem lies with the terminology. Some American companies use "yaoi" as an umbrella term for everything from light BL to really uber explicit material; others market their manga as shounen-ai. It seems pretty random to me--from what I can tell, only DMP is consistent about it; they've done a good job of making their yaoi brand distinct and easily recognizable. Tokyopop's new Blu line might turn out to be something similar.

Fans often try to distinguish between shounen-ai and yaoi, saying that yaoi is the gay subdivision of hentai and that shounen-ai is the stuff with, you know, characters & a story. Personally I feel that by now the terms have become hopelessly confused; some people will pounce on you if you use yaoi to mean anything other than a category of hentai, while others pretty much refuse to admit the fact that plenty of BL is indeed just a specialized form of hentai.

Boys' love is the term used most commonly in Japan, and it functions better than yaoi as a sort of catch-all phrase.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I agree with what everyone has said here, i mean yoai is starting to become more popular amung girls and we can't forget boys as well. Although most people agree that there are two sides to Yaoi there is the non-sexual side and the just plain people doint it throught the whole thing. I like both but i can stand a yaoi or shouen comic that is just boring, the only one that i can think of that is like that is a manga that i read about a boy who had an accident and lost both of his parents and is now living with his doctor who is also his lover. It was a good story, but there was too much talking in it and it was very hard to follow.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid]^_^ Both of you have great points. I most agree with Dagger. The terminology is all wrong, as I said in the first post. Hopefully this will help a lot of people get is straight. Thanks for laying it out Dagger![/COLOR]

[Lindus]

I'm alright with yaoi. I like shounen-ai much more as it's fluffier and the stories are more appealing to me. And I can see why some people might be annoyed by yaoi because of factors like the fans. More than a few of them are little obsessive, and it can make people, even those that enjoy yaoi, uncomfortable. But I really wish people didn't immediately condemn it. Posting mildly suggestive art on TheO, even if it's only meant to be humorous, is flamed. >_> I'm not saying that they have to like it, but a little more tolerance would be nice.

For me, I guess it's all good. As long as the pairings make sense (or no sense if I'm feeling crackish) and the story is good, I'm for it. People have made some really good points on this thread so far ^^

[Katamari666]

good points all and whether or not theyre true depends on the readers correct?
all in all theyre just as good as anything else ive read, so personally i dont care what the steriotypes are!! :animeswea (not making much sense am I?) oh this is kinda o/t but whats with all the naruto/sasuke pairings eh? :animeswea

[duoikari]

I can answer that, in Naruto the series there was a certain scene that happened that sparked a yaoi type friendship between Sasuke and Naturo and from that moment on there always seemed to be a strange bond between the boys. If you watch the first five epsiodes i think you'll see it. But then again that kind of pairing doesn't come under yaoi, i found out that there is a sub catagory called shota, which basically means children doing things that they shouldn't do. I my opiton i don't like it, it just pushing the boundaries for me but then again i don't really like pairings like Zech and Trieze from gundam wing, one Trieze is in his late 40s and two Zexhs is in his early 20s. But as this thread has said already, we can stop people from doing or reading or watching wjat they like and we should not condem them for watching or reading the stuff either.

[Horendithas]

I have always enjoyed anime, manga and games that included yaoi. It is part of why I joined this forum as there is no tolerance for such things where I live. Many of the people here automatically assume that if it's anime related it must be pornographic in nature. They do not even realize that like shows produced here in america there are various levels between the mild to hard core stuff.

I think Dagger has it correct in that yaoi is merely a label and does not truely represent what someone likes. It is truly ironic as here in Utah the state does not allow porographic materials to be sold at the stores. I get tired of the rude comments from fellow Utahans when I purchase a disk from a series like Gravation as they are too un-educated to realize it isn't pornograhy. And to stubborn to educate themselves.

It's too bad more people can't adapt the attitude of I'm not against you, but I don't support you either. Tolerance is something that many people here in Utah are sorely lacking.

[Yukina123]

[QUOTE=indifference]I think Dagger has it correct in that yaoi is merely a label and does not truely represent what someone likes. It is truly ironic as here in Utah the state does not allow porographic materials to be sold at the stores. I get tired of the rude comments from fellow Utahans when I purchase a disk from a series like Gravation as they are too un-educated to realize it isn't pornograhy. And to stubborn to educate themselves.

It's too bad more people can't adapt the attitude of I'm not against you, but I don't support you either. Tolerance is something that many people here in Utah are sorely lacking.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid]Then you're living in the wrong part of Utah, sport. ^_^ I've been in Utah, and although they may have a few sticks up their butts, they're pretty nice people and if you give them a chance and explain to them, they generally get the idea. As for maleducation, you're picking on the wrong state. BYU and UofU are two of the highest respected universities outside of the Ivyleague. So just like you are generalizing Utahns, so are a lot of people generalizing yaoi. Stereotypes. You've got to look beyond the outter layer of what is presented to you and find what really makes it what it is. Don't just assume that the entire population of one area feels the same way. ^_~ It's all about the little things.[/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[quote name='Yukina123][COLOR=DarkOrchid']Then you're living in the wrong part of Utah, sport. ^_^ I've been in Utah, and although they may have a few sticks up their butts, they're pretty nice people and if you give them a chance and explain to them, they generally get the idea. As for maleducation, you're picking on the wrong state. BYU and UofU are two of the highest respected universities outside of the Ivyleague. So just like you are generalizing Utahns, so are a lot of people generalizing yaoi. Stereotypes. You've got to look beyond the outter layer of what is presented to you and find what really makes it what it is. Don't just assume that the entire population of one area feels the same way. ^_~ It's all about the little things.[/COLOR][/quote]

As I am a Utahan myself I can?t help but point out that there is no ?correct? place to live in Utah. If you have only visited Utah, perhaps you should try living here before assuming that explaining things to them will make people understand. I was born here in Utah and have lived here most of my life. Indifference is not overstating the fact that people are intolerant here. And she did say many people, not all people here in Utah. After all I like anime myself and know a few here who do.

I could spend a while explaining all the things the people have attempted to have banned here in Utah as many of them have no tolerance for a different opinion. For starters the universities here including BYU attempted to have Ethics classes removed from the school as they felt it was misleading their children by teaching a moral system different from the one of the main religion here. Then they tried to remove Biology, as evolution does not fit the view of how life began according to the main religion here. My father worked for BYU for over 30 years and before he retired he was dean over six departments. I remember this quite clearly as he was opposed to them removing the classes.

And lets not forget the attempt to ban Harry Potter in the schools here when the series first came out. They also attempted to ban anime sales in general. When it didn?t succeed many of the stores here responded by simply removing the items and refusing to sell them. Now only the bigger cooperation?s that are not based out of Utah sell them where I live. And even they have drastically reduced what they will carry as so many customers complain that they are selling ?filth? in their stores. I have had people be downright rude to me when I have been picking up a DVD from an anime series. I got accused of promoting pornography when I picked up a DNAngel DVD the other day. He didn?t even give me a chance to reply but instead complained to the cashier that he wouldn?t be returning to a store that sells such garbage.

Not all Utahans are intolerant; after all I have met several of them online here at myOtaku. But I do agree with indifference that many of them are not tolerant. I could easily go into further detail on the things that are banned here, as they do not fit the view of the major religion here. On the positive side as many things did not get banned after the attempt was made, it is obvious that there are tolerant people here as well. ^_~

[Horendithas]

It was not my intent to claim that all people in Utah are intolerant, merely that more tolerance is needed here. I thank you SunfallE as you explained it much clearer than I did in my post.

I am quite sure that lack of tolerance exists everywhere and not just here in Utah. Perhaps it would have been better to simply state that more tolerance among the people I know would be better instead of saying a paticular place needs it. I guess I think of Utah as being intolerant as I have not always lived here and I had not run accross the dislike of anime before my family moved here. Let me eplain:

I had taken some manga books with me to High School and was reading it during my lunch break. It was of Sailor Moon, so I was beyond surprised when one of the teachers made a scene and confisicated the two novels I had brought with me. I was sent the the principals office and accused of bringing pornographic material to school. The principal and teacher did not even look at the book but instead burned both of them on the spot and warned that if I ever brought any again I would be expelled from school.

It has been over five years since I was in High School so perhaps now they realize that just cause it's anime doesn't mean it's poronograhy.

[duoikari]

I feel very sorry for all you people in Utah, in U.K everyshop you go into, in any part of the U.K will have pron up on the top shelve. And i don't think that people should judge anime as just pron, as i have said before there are different genres of anime. I could understand maybe if you brought in a Salior moon yuri doujinshi, but then again they should of just told you that those kind of thing are not appropriate on school grounds. I really do understand how most of you feel, when i was in the 11th grade as you american would call it, i told some of my male friend that i liked Yaoi, the looks i got :animesmil but lucky they weren't my best friends or anything.

Only one of my friends accepted the fact but he didn't really like talking about it with me, but as you can guess they all said i like to watch porn. :catgirl: which is total wrong anyway. I like to read Yaoi, most yaoi is not porn and yet i never condemed them for watching the dirty scenes in evangelion. If i were in Utah, i would make an online group or something and postition that they bring porn back into the state. Because what people have right in front of them they don't miss, it's a bit like taking chocolate away from a child. If you stop the child from having the chocolate then they will want it more and go mad whenever they see it.

But if you think about it these kinda stuff is not just happing in places like Utah it is also happen in a little country called Wales, in the U.K. Now i must say i have been to wales and in the country it is really boring. I don't know if anyone watched the real little britain on BBC 3 london, but there was a man who was the only gay in his village. This is true as well, the guy said that when he was in his teens he got beaten up, spit at, bullied and he even went to the guy at the church and asked him what he should do, the guy relpy by telling him to basically change his sexualaty. I'm really that is going a bit too far, the guy was really intellangent as well he lived in wales, he spoke both welsh and english fully and he went to university. So did the fact that he was gay make him any more stupid?, i think you can guess the answer.

There is one thing that my friend said to me that will always stay with me, she said that 'If you like yaoi too much you will turn out biosexual' I myself don't think that is true. I hate yuri, but i don't really care if someone else likes it but i don't think i couls ever be attrached to something like that, i think i love men too much.

[Aaryanna]

[QUOTE=indifference]It was not my intent to claim that all people in Utah are intolerant, merely that more tolerance is needed here. I thank you SunfallE as you explained it much clearer than I did in my post.

I am quite sure that lack of tolerance exists everywhere and not just here in Utah. Perhaps it would have been better to simply state that more tolerance among the people I know would be better instead of saying a paticular place needs it. I guess I think of Utah as being intolerant as I have not always lived here and I had not run accross the dislike of anime before my family moved here. Let me eplain:

I had taken some manga books with me to High School and was reading it during my lunch break. It was of Sailor Moon, so I was beyond surprised when one of the teachers made a scene and confisicated the two novels I had brought with me. I was sent the the principals office and accused of bringing pornographic material to school. The principal and teacher did not even look at the book but instead burned both of them on the spot and warned that if I ever brought any again I would be expelled from school.

It has been over five years since I was in High School so perhaps now they realize that just cause it's anime doesn't mean it's poronograhy.[/QUOTE]

I live in Utah too and I agree that some of the people are intolerant. Though I also agree that it's proably everywhere. I'm not a big fan of yaoi or yuri, but still don't see why others can't like it.

I'm not in high school yet, but the junior high I go too gets really mad if you bring anime stuff with you. Even if it's a series that's only rated PG. I took one of my DNAngel ones to school earlier this year and the teacher took it from me! DNAngel is not bad but the teacher refused to give it back at the end of the day saying I should know better than to be reading such a bad book. *sigh*

The stupid teacher even called my Mom, though that didn't go over very well with my Mom as she's the one who gave me the book in the first place. I was lucky though, my Mom went to the school and chewed out the principal saying that the teacher needed to be better informed before she assumed that she was giving me bad stuff to read. And she insisted that the book be returned so I got it back. After that I never take any of my anime stuff with me to school. *sigh*

[Katamari666]

i still find it amazing that people dont actually read the manga and watch the animes before they judge them .... i used to live in a group home in brampton where they didnt allow sunshine girls on the walls due to the fact that they believed they degraded women but one day i went out and picked up an issue of love hina ...boy did they piss me off ...when i tried to show it to them they just skimmed through the pages and pointed out...a hand here ...lack of clothes there ... it was really stupid i told them to read it but they just took it from me so like i said (you all know theres no actuall nudity in love hine U.S. version ) people need to read the books before they jugde(damn ...my first long post) kyuu :animeswea :animesmil

[hikari0205]

I like Yaoi and have for a long time . Although I prefer to read it to watch it , I haven't really figured out why . I guess it's because I find it easier to make up by myself when I think of it , although it's okay to watch aswell . I don't disagree with it but i'm not a huge fan of it that thinks it's the best thing in the world. I still think it's good though ^^

[duoikari]

one thing i must say is that i'm am one of the biggest fan of yaoi in the country. But there is some series that are suggesting sexual things. One example of anime that suggests yuri and that i think wouldn't go down very well at any school is poemi poemi poemy. I got to admit it is very funny but at the same time very suggestive shall we say, in almost every moment there is a reference to yuri. Another anime that i think has a lot of suggective yaoi is Gundam and Getbackers. I love gundam wing it was the first yaoi that i ever really liked and it still is the best, my favourate pairing would have to be Heero and duo, but i also like Quatre and Trowa. When you watch the series it is so slashable!, i couldn't believe what some of the boys were sayinf about each other. Such as Quatre saying 'i wish i could meet that boy again' when he first met trowa and when he tried to kill him and starting to burst into tears.

Getbackers, it good and funny and has so much slash in it, it unbelievable. Ban and Ginji are so what the word i'm looking for... ''close'' to each other you can just imagine them being a couple. I mean come on, Ginji is always worrying about ban and vice versa, they have to be the yaoi suggestive couple at the moment, aprt from Naruto.

But there are some anime which if one person saw would almost convice them that anime is porn. As i have already said poemi poemi poemy is one and the only really bad yaoi Ova that i can think of at the moment is Sexual harassment, which haven't seen but i know is quite bad. but the thread is still undecided on whether yaoi is good or bad, i person have been watching, reading and writing yaoi for over seven years. I got myself off it for a year but then my friend showed me Gravatition and that got me back into the flow of things. Pesonally i can't imagine my life without yaoi, it has given me the personality that i have today, and if i hadn't gone back to yaoi i wouldn't have come up with the best fanfiction i ever wrote, Question and answers. :animesigh

[Dagger]

[quote name='duoikari']...the only really bad yaoi Ova that i can think of at the moment is Sexual harassment, which haven't seen but i know is quite bad.[/quote]
Trust me, there are plenty of others out there (though not as many if you're only taking North America into account). Hardcore BL--in either anime or manga form--isn't exactly my cup of tea, and I usually avoid it, but I guess I do surprise myself from time to time...

Though [b]Ai no Kusabi[/b] is pretty tame by today's standards, it's nevertheless a lot more explicit than, say, something like Gravitation. And I love it, although that's due to its superb animation, character designs, voice acting and story, not its sexual content.

As for manga, I'm a pretty big fan of [b]Haru wo Daiteita[/b]. It's much, [i]much[/i] more graphic than I would normally be comfortable with, but the artwork is stunningly good and the story--while typically implausible--is surprisingly emotional. That's the aspect of it which drew me in: the character development and the well-done melodrama. The excellence of the art also helps make the pornographic scenes seem a little more palatable, haha. I wish there were more female characters, though. It annoys me when BL series basically ignore the existence of women.

~Dagger~

[Yukina123]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid] ^_^ Well, I would say I'm most likely, the least experienced of yaoi readers here. As for the situations in mangas being taken in public schools. I'm sorry they burned it. You could've taken that to federal court. Although they have the right to question you without reading you the "Miranda", it's still unlawful to burn someone's personal property, even on campus. Sorry that happened so long ago. As for bookstores, yes, it's true that very few stores that operate based in Utah sell anime/manga, but in the public library and stores like that, I've never had a problem like that before. As a matter of fact, it's been excatly the opposite. ^_^ Reading manga has actually made me friends in public places, of all ages and even a few guys have hit on me for it. lol. The point is, I'm sorry you encountered such hardships in your pursuit of manga/anime. It's a good thing that you still read it. Hopefully people won't be so harsh where you live now. ^_~ Especially in Utah.[/COLOR]