Two Teens Hanged.

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=teal]So... yeah... those two teens... turns out they were gay and hanged for having gay sex... Oh, sorry, I'm off topic. ^^;

Otaku America, all you have proved is that homosexuality is considered a sin in Christianity. There's nothing there that says what a homosexual experiences is different from what a heterosexual experiences. You are still wrong to cast assumptions for which you have no reference for.[/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

So, women were "created" for men, eh?

What really gets me here is how, by using the word "created", you just render everything you say afterwards completely negligible and worthless, since it demonstrates a severe inability to be level-headed and logical in any situation, whatsoever.


To get back on track, however, this whole issue is a simple demonstration of how most people have absolutely no ability to think for themselves and contemplate why they're really performing certain actions/holding certain beliefs. There is no justification for this. The only reason some one could believe this sort of thing to be acceptable would be a complete deficiency of reason.

This is also why it is important that socially developed societies maintain a clear view of real problems within themselves and throughout the rest of the world. We have hunger, we have poverty, and we have two dudes having sex in a barn.

I really don't see how the third trumps the first two for relevance.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]The only reason some one could believe this sort of thing to be acceptable would be a complete deficiency of reason.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
That, sadly, sums up Religious Fundamentalism.[/COLOR]

[Otaku America]

[color=blue]Okay, I went to my Bible study class on Saturday morning and I made a suggestion to focus it on homosexuality. Now my thoughts are calm & collective. All my other posts that are in this thread before this post please ignore them as they weren?t collective enough to voice my proper thoughts. My apologies to everyone including Ms. Aiyisha, sorry if I mispelled your name. [/color]

[quote]How can anyone have a decent conversation with you OA if you keep calling people uneducated and dismissing their posts as BS just because they have an opinion that differs from your own perceptions.[/quote]

[color=blue]Sorry, about my misconception.[/color]

[quote]I someone who was homosexual attempted to deny themselves and have a heterosexual relationship then no doubt they would be extremely unhappy. Many can fall into depression and even suicide because of these warring emotions. How can you condemn anyone to that sort of life? What happened to tolerance and unity, of 'love thy neighbour' and such.[/quote]

[color=blue]From what I acknowledged from by Bible study session is that only Christians understand the temptations of this world. That?s why modern-day Christians strictly interpret the biblical passages and apply them to present day situations, such as this subject for example.

In the Holy Bible there are many references that refers to a [I]sodomite[/I] or a [I]homosexual[/I]. In the biblical passages God destroyed Sodom?s individuals because of their homosexual activity. All the men wanted to have homosexual sex with the visiting angels. Frankly, he destroyed this city of male?s homosexual sins. [/color]

[quote]You say there would have been paradise if sins such as homosexuality and perversion among others had not come into being, I say there would be paradise if these things did exist but we all were able to accept eachothers differences and give praise to god for giving us such a diverse and interesting race. Homosexuality doesn't harm anyone.[/quote]

[color=blue]You do have an interesting point. In my Bible session though, homosexual behavior is one act that will prevent a person from attaining salvation and it will keep that person away from the gates of Heaven. [/color]

[quote]As a side note: God created Adam and Eve yes? Okay, Adam and Eve begat Cain and Abel, Cain killed Abel and now there is only Cain. Where did the rest of man kind come from? Don't you find that odd?[/quote]

[color=blue]Adam & Eve were the first parents but God created man in his own image, in the image of God. Male and Female created them.[/color]

[quote]Oh, and sin didn't create homosexuals. They're people, for crying out loud. Not embodiments of evil. Sheesh. I can't believe you said that.[/quote]

[color=blue]I?m glad that I attended my Bible study session. God created Eve from Adam?s rib and thus the two share a bond together. The Bible references homosexuality to those who are confused with their own gender.[/color]

[quote]OA, it's stated explicitly in Genesis what the punishment was, and there's no confusion about it. I've bolded the exact lines. There are no genetic disorders from GoE. I'll help you out by "translating" the bolded portions.

Eve is punished by having painful childbirth.

Adam is punished by being forced to do strenuous labor for the rest of his life, until the day he dies.

You may argue that Eve's painful childbirth is a "genetic disorder," but that's not arguing your original "point," that all disorders today are by-products of the story of GoE. And by the way, as of today, there has still been no evidence that homosexuality is genetic.

If homosexuality were genetic, entire family trees would have more homosexual branches. So attempting to establish homosexuality as a "genetic disorder" is a dumb idea to begin with, and trying to link it as a punishment for Eve plucking an apple...is even a dumber idea. Also, nowhere in the GoE is there any mention made of homosexuality as a punishment, so nice try in playing the spin doctor--but there's no spin possible here. There isn't any gray area in terms of the contextual content of GoE.

Now, regarding actual genetic disorders, trisomy, monosomy, Down Syndrome, Tourette's Syndrome...you're not going to find anything of that nature in GoE, because genetic disorders weren't a punishment for Adam and Eve's transgressions, which is obvious from just reading Genesis.[/quote]

[color=blue]Sorry, my thoughts weren?t fully expressed nor explained clearly back then so I?ll just disregard this post.[/color]

[quote]It's called pure love, and you should talk to a few gay couples, by the way. Sage is entirely correct here. Fundamentally, a gay relationship is no different than a straight relationship. Gay partners desire happiness, security, affection--the very same things a straight partner wants.[/quote]

[color=blue]God?s plan from the beginning was to make Man & Woman live eternally in the gardens without the humans eating the forbidden fruit. In the KJV/NKJV it states God does not condemn sodomites but sodomites who engage in homosexual acts. Thus, it?s a sin.[/color]

[quote]Yeah. What if the actual God is a 3-foot tall, hairy, malformed bisexual leather slave Gnome? What if your entire upbringing and your vision of God is actually incorrect? What if what you think God wants is actually just the agenda of a handful of long-dead humans?[/quote]

[color=blue]In John 14:6

?Jesus said to him, ?I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.? [/color]

[quote]I refer you to where I quoted the Book of Genesis and used the Bible itself to prove you wrong.[/quote]

[color=blue]There are over 40 Holy Bible translations, explain which version that quote came from.[/color]

[quote]And I think this where the problem with your argument starts, Otaku America. While I can do nothing about your core feelings on homosexuality, I think it would be unwise to bring such a huge religious overtone into an official debate (such as a debate tournament). As far as I'm concerned, I don't think it's allowed for anyone to start quoting the Bible or anything at debate tournaments...(and it would be impossible anyway, seeing as most of them are composed of you reading as much information as fast as you can. I always thought that was incredibly dumb, I ended up doing speech debates). While it's very acceptable that you have Christian-based morals, arguing over gut feelings such as this is...pretty dumb, to say it bluntly.[/quote]

[color=blue]My apologies for the inane posts.[/color]

[quote]Otaku America, all you have proved is that homosexuality is considered a sin in Christianity. There's nothing there that says what a homosexual experiences is different from what a heterosexual experiences. You are still wrong to cast assumptions for which you have no reference for.[/quote]

[color=blue]God says Homosexual acts are a sin, an Abomination. God simply doesn?t want us to practice anything that is unnatural to his eye. In the Holy Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were not only homosexual but they were so completely out of restraint. They even refused Lot?s daughter. All the men in the city demanded the men angels for sexual relations.

Even after the men in the city were blinded by the angels they still searched for the door to get what they wanted. The reason certain homosexual practices aren?t allowed is because they are for an unnatural, unrestrained, & unproductive experience. They do not bring the total satisfaction that God meant for mankind to experience in the bond of marriage between one man and one woman in sexual relational terms.

The Men in Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed for their object of their desires. Even after they were struck sightless they still persisted.

Homosexuality is a sin that was epitomized from the disgusting wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah ? the grave, ungodly, lawless, and sensual conduct of unprincipled men, that tormented Lot as he saw and heard it day, after day, the corrupt desire of those that went after ?strange flesh.?

The only crime that Sodom & Gomorrah committed was homosexual desires and thus, they were all annihilated from the Hand of God.

God is Judge, Executioner, & the Forgiver. Those who believe or don?t believe have to remember their own transgressions. We do not have the sight of God nor can we see the heart of men. One thing is for certain, when the 2nd coming approaches, there will only be 1 religion left standing.

Many people are going to church and studying the Bible because they fear God instead of loving him for what he gave to us, which is life. To deny his existence is sin.[/color] :animesigh

[Sandy]

Finally you made a post without emphasizing your own ego and your own rightfullness. I'm proud of you, Otaku America. ;)

But you still have to understand that not everybody are as devouted to religion as you are, and most of the population in this planet do not share your views. So you cannot claim that you're absolutely right, you can only say you [b]believe[/b] you are right.

Either way, religion is a private thing, and one can only follow it if one chooses to. So hitting with a holy book or jamming morality down people's throat isn't right - it even doesn't have the desired effect but the contrary!

If I want to "sin", continue my homosexual relationship and sexlife, isn't it my business and mine alone? What has it got to do with you? If you believe that your god will judge/punish me, then let [i]him[/i] do it! (And for your interest, so far I only feel blessed with love, and not punished ih any way. I live a very happy life right now.)

It's the same thing with the topic at hand: the muslims believe that they must act as their gods intrument of punishment and judgment, following the laws of sharia. So to them, god punishes eg. the two teen boys by making the society execute them.

I [I]know[/I] that modern Christianity, that is based on the New Testament, isn't like that. So called "christian" countries don't execute homosexuals or cheaters even though the bible tells to do so. We live in a new, civilized world where slaughtering people for their private actions is considered barbarism. There's no going back to the times of 2000 years ago. Things change - to my belief for the better-, and muslims need to see that too.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Otaku America][color=blue][/color][color=blue']Sorry, my thoughts weren?t fully expressed nor explained clearly back then so I?ll just disregard this post.[/color][/quote]
Or you could actually try to refute my post, instead of just dodging the point, OA. Because as it stands now, you just look like you're trying to dodge the point--perhaps because you said something so horribly wrong from a contextual standpoint, yet you've been acting like some Biblical scholar here, and some random internet stranger pulled excerpts from the actual Bible itself and proved you wrong.

Counter the point or concede that you were wrong, and not just that your posts "weren't fully expressed nor explained clearly."

[quote][color=blue]God?s plan from the beginning was to make Man & Woman live eternally in the gardens without the humans eating the forbidden fruit. In the KJV/NKJV it states God does not condemn sodomites but sodomites who engage in homosexual acts. Thus, it?s a sin.[/color][/quote]
And you trust the Bible's account why? You're using a derivative of a Strawman's Argument here. I believe that's the phrase.

"It's bad because it is."

Try again. So far, you've only been able to quote the Bible to engage in the debate here. You've not used any other reasoning other than "The Bible says it." You're still clinging to a flimsy argument, because the Bible itself is not infallible--a point that you missed completely in the next bit.

[quote][color=blue]In John 14:6

?Jesus said to him, ?I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.?[/color][/quote]
And this relates to my point how? Okay, so you can quote the Bible. Big whoop. That doesn't address my question of how do you really know what's going on religiously? What if your entire belief structure isn't actually based on any fundamental guiding light? What if God isn't really the God you think he is? And "The Bible says so" is not a valid response.

[quote][color=blue]There are over 40 Holy Bible translations, explain which version that quote came from.[/color][/quote]
This made me laugh. Do you honestly believe you can play this card? Show you which version it came from? As if we checked a different translation, the fundamental idea would change so dramatically that there'd be no consistency? Come on.

Check out [url]www.bible.com[/url].

[Doukeshi]

[SIZE=1]Okay, lets consider this for a moment. What do we consider to be [I]wrong[/I] in this day and age. We consider murder, violence, rape, theft and prejudice to be wrong in the western world. Why is this? Well, these are all crimes that harm someone in one way or another, which is why they are crimes.

To make something a crime that has no effect whatsoever upon anyone other than the two [I]consenting[/I] individuals involved is just down right selfish. On the subject of religion, a deity deems that such an action is wrong and much therefore be punished. Why? What possible harm can it do in this day and age? Okay, so there isn't a possibility of precreation between these two people right, thats why its wrong? Nope, not now, there are many ways in which this small point can be overcome, plus not everyone in the world is homosexual and to be frank the human population could to with a little slowing down as it is. Prehaps it was not how God intended, so what. If something so trivial as your sexual preference means that you are condemed to a life in hell then I say that God is a selfish, finnecky, stubborn individual and needs to sort out his priorities.

P.S You didn't really answer my point about Cain and Abel OA.
[/SIZE]

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Otaku America][color=blue']God says Homosexual acts are a sin, an Abomination. God simply doesn?t want us to practice anything that is unnatural to his eye. [/color][/quote]
If we practiced only natural things, the vast majority of the people on this board would be dead. I was saved numerous times in my life by plastics, vital monitors, and medicines, none of which are natural. In fact, I wouldn't even know you if it wasn't for this unnatural computer.

So you've met god? Is he/she/it nice?

[Sandy]

Another gay man has been executed in Iran. Also, most European countries have halted the process of sending back gay refugees to the countries where homosexuality is punished by death because of the executions that occured a month ago.

Here is the whole news:
[url]http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082205ukIran.htm[/url]

I'm still shocked that this issue hasn't been on the media previously.

[Harry]

I only skimmed over this thread, but I noticed not a single person at all commented about how they were officially executed for raping a 12 year old boy. It's been mentioned in almost all the news articles that have covered this story, this one that is linked just so happens to say it's a conspiracy by the Iranian government. I'm not saying they definately did it, but if it happens to be true they don't really deserve anything but death.

[Sandy]

[quote name='Harry']I'm not saying they definately did it, but if it happens to be true they don't really deserve anything but death.[/quote]

There are tens of thousands, maybe more, of rapists and pedophiles in the western countries, yet none of them get executed for their crimes.

I'm saying that one shouldn't be naïve here. Remember that the teens were [I]tortured[/I], so of course they will admit anything to make it stop.

And wouldn't it be just a little too convenient for the religious government to make all homosexuals look like rapists and pedophiles?

[Harry]

[quote name='Sage']There are tens of thousands, maybe more, of rapists and pedophiles in the western countries, yet none of them get executed for their crimes.[/quote]
And I don't agree with the western countries leniency on rapists and pedophiles.

[quote]I'm saying that one shouldn't be naïve here. Remember that the teens were [I]tortured[/I], so of course they will admit anything to make it stop.[/quote]
I haven't read anything that said they admitted to it so that really has nothing to do with anything.

[quote]And wouldn't it be just a little too convenient for the religious government to make all homosexuals look like rapists and pedophiles?[/QUOTE]
Ok since this happened in a theocracy it can't be true. Good arguement.

[Sandy]

[quote name='Harry']And I don't agree with the western countries leniency on rapists and pedophiles.[/quote]

Aww come on, you can't really think that governments everywhere should kill all the people who commit crimes! At least here in Europe we are way past the imo medieval death punishment. People need to have second chances!

[quote]Ok since this happened in a theocracy it can't be true. Good arguement.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying it can't be true, but if you read the link I provided just two posts ago, you can see that [I]again[/I] two men are sentenced to death for homosexual intercourse [I]and[/I] rape. Can you see a pattern here?

[Harry]

[quote name='Sage']Aww come on, you can't really think that governments everywhere should kill all the people who commit crimes! At least here in Europe we are way past the imo medieval death punishment. People need to have second chances![/quote]
Awww come on, you can't really think I said governments everywhere should kill all people who commit crimes! I don't want to turn this into a debate about rape and pedophilia, but both can rarely be "cured". So you're giving them second chances just to rape again.


[quote]I'm not saying it can't be true, but if you read the link I provided just two posts ago, you can see that [I]again[/I] two men are sentenced to death for homosexual intercourse [I]and[/I] rape. Can you see a pattern here?[/QUOTE]
Yes, 3 people are a pattern that can be accepted as absolute truth.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Harry]
Yes, 3 people are a pattern that can be accepted as absolute truth.[/QUOTE]

Sigh... Didn't I start the sentence by saying [I]"I'm not saying it can't be true"[/I]? So please don't twist my words, okay? It makes me suspicious, that's all I'm saying!

I'm really not in the mood for debating on such a serious matter. Lately I've participated in too many debates in this forum where the other side just manipulates, exaggerates and twists words, so I learned my lesson, alright?

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]If you don't want to listen to what someone has to say, then leave. All of us have the right to say what we want on this board as long as we follow the rules. You on the other hand have no right to call someone "scum" and "useless turd".

I swear, where are the mods? Why don't you tell people using insults to back off?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Ok... OA was using the Bible to say that all Homosexuals were sinners etc, and I'm fairly certain than many homosexual members who read that post would come off seriously offended. I know I would.

My rant wasn't so much confined to OA's comments, but on Bible/Qu'ran-Thumping as a whole. Believeing in religion is fine. Telling people they are all sinners and they will go to hell and that they were a mistake is NOT fine.

If the mods weren't going to approach OA to tell him to stop calling Homosexuals sinners who will go to hell I don't think I'm at risk here. Unless...

BTW: Scum and Useless Turds was a little harsh, yes, but I was on a bit of a rant. By it I meant 'Cavemen' and 'Bible-Thumpers' respectivly.[/COLOR]

[Sara]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']I swear, where are the mods? Why don't you tell people using insults to back off?[/COLOR][/quote][color=#6699cc]I apologise, Chabi, that we are not on OtakuBoards 24-7. The post in question was out-of-line, but it was posted less than an hour and a half ago. If you feel that something needs urgent attention [i]report the post[/i]. Any staff responsible for the forum where the reported post lies will get an email about it.

Don't just whine about it, lol. I mean, geez. [i]That's[/i] going to help.

Ilium, flaming is [i]not allowed[/i]. If it happens again, you'll be banned. I've deleted your post. If you wish to restate your ideas in a less inflammatory manner, you are free to do so.[/color]

[Sandy]

I kinda have to take Ilium's side on this one, Lore. If calling people scum is flaming, then why isn't calling people sinners who will find themselves in hell then?

The latter sure has more [I]flames[/I] in it, if you forgive my lame pun.

Frankly, I'm just trying to ignore all this religious bashing directed towards homosexuals (and thus, towards me), but just because it's [I]religious[/I] shouldn't make it anymore approvable.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Lore][color=#6699cc]I apologise, Chabi, that we are not on OtakuBoards 24-7. The post in question was out-of-line, but it was posted less than an hour and a half ago. If you feel that something needs urgent attention [i]report the post[/i]. Any staff responsible for the forum where the reported post lies will get an email about it.

Don't just whine about it, lol. I mean, geez. [i]That's[/i] going to help.

Ilium, flaming is [i]not allowed[/i]. If it happens again, you'll be banned. I've deleted your post. If you wish to restate your ideas in a less inflammatory manner, you are free to do so.[/color][/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]

I apologise. But, please, would you care to explain how what I said was anymore of a flame than what it was in response to? My statment merely said that religious-bible-thumping-intolerence was supposed to have died along with Cortez and his ilk, years and years ago. Could I have been nicer about? Sure I could have been. In retrospect it would have been a good idea. I apologise, but I'm often to agressive when it comes to such matters and I apologise for it, but I would still like to know why my post is any more flame-filled than OA's? [/COLOR]

[Stuart]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS]Fitst off I'd like to apologize that this did not come to my attention earlier.[/FONT]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]

I apologise. But, please, would you care to explain how what I said was anymore of a flame than what it was in response to? My statment merely said that religious-bible-thumping-intolerence was supposed to have died along with Cortez and his ilk, years and years ago. Could I have been nicer about? Sure I could have been. In retrospect it would have been a good idea. I apologise, but I'm often to agressive when it comes to such matters and I apologise for it, but I would still like to know why my post is any more flame-filled than OA's?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]"· Verbal Abuse: Verbal abuse includes swearing and/or any inappropriate language directed toward either a member or a staff member. Any form of threat, insult or inappropriate behavior towards a member or staff member is viewed very seriously by OtakuBoards.com." [B]- Rules[/B][/SIZE]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS]I understand that some comments may anger you, but when they do it's best to just sit back and ignore it. "If you have nothing nice to say don't say it at all" That's a basic rule, and it may sound silly, but it's one that needs to be applied. Otaku America's posts don't include any form of verbal abuse, and he supports his opinons strongly with his beliefs in a manner that isn't flaming. For future reference please, if there's a topic that you feel the need to rant about another members remark or opinons, just don't post AT ALL. It's best to avoid such discussions if you feel angered by it. If you're still not clear on why your post was inappropriate then PM myself or any of the other moderators, so that we can keep this out of the thread disscussion. Thanks.

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']I swear, where are the mods? Why don't you tell people using insults to back off?[/COLOR][/quote]
I'm sorry, but myself or any of the other mods cannot be on 24/7 as Lore has already said. PLEASE If you feel a post is out of line report it! I get instant e-mail notifactions, so If I'm online, I'll deal with it right away.[/FONT]

[Sara]

[color=#6699cc]Raiyuu and I [i]both[/i] emphasized that things in this thread needed to remain civil. Again, I apologise that we are not as omnipresent as you might like. We can't be everywhere, and we can't do anything. Frankly, expecting us to is laughable. If something is an issue, yes! By all means, report it. If you can't be arsed to hit the button and spend ten seconds explaining why a post is out of line, I don't believe you truly have a right to complain when and if things come to a head.

Ilium, you can't reasonably compare your last post to Otaku America's last post. He posted fairly calmly, basing his response on what he believes is a solid source of truth. It's not sweet, but it's the entire object of the discussion which you engaged wth him. You replied with insults that were completely out of line.

However much you may disagree with or dislike him, it is your responsibility as a member here to remain civil. If you cannot do that, you will be banned. Sage managed to post quite politely:

[quote=Sage]Finally you made a post without emphasizing your own ego and your own rightfullness. I'm proud of you, Otaku America. ;)

But you still have to understand that not everybody are as devouted to religion as you are, and most of the population in this planet do not share your views. So you cannot claim that you're absolutely right, you can only say you [b]believe[/b] you are right.[/quote]

To quote a discussion I had with Azure, I believe [b]there are degrees[/b] here. An appropriate response to the word "sinner" might be the term "closed-minded." An [i]inappropriate[/i] response would be "useless turd" or "scum of the earth."

I stand by my decision. If you have further issue, it needs to be discussed elsewhere. As it is, the last several posts here have not been discussing the topic itself but flaming that occured within the thread.

Thread locked.[/color]