Mother of slain son holds vigil in Crawford.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Sorry folks I couldn't come up with a better title so deal with it.

Okay the whole deal with that this woman's son was killed in Iraq months ago and she's decided to camp out at President Bush's ranch in Crawford TX (30 miles or so from Waco-I've been there :animesigh ) until he'll talk to her. (I think she'd have better luck convincing Al Queida that we're [i]not[/i] infedeles, but that's just my humble opinion.)

The police have threatened to arrrest her, the president's motorcade drove right by her. G. W. Bush says that while he sympathizes ( *cough* bull crap *cough*) with her, pulling out of Iraq would bad. How?

Honestly I'm suprised that there isn't a thread on this subject already so I'm starting this one now. I think it's rather admirable that this woman is willing to risk imprisionment just to get her point across. Now what do you think?[/color]

[Sage Kaley]

To say that I dislike Bush is like saying water is rather wet. However, that aside, he should at least talk to her. Her son died for his cause and if he truely sympathized then he would hear her out. Especially if they drove right by her, that's rather cold if you ask me. I do agree, it's a very admirable thing that she is doing.

I honestly don't know if pulling out of Iraq is bad or good, on one hand I feel like we're trapped there and on the other I say 'Most of them don't want us there anyway'. I just go back and forth and wish I had a stronger opinion on that. I do know I feel sick reading the paper everday and seeing the headline 'Car Bomb Kills 14 Marines'. It pretty much is an everyday thing now too. That, I can say for sure, I do not agree with.

I feel sorry for this woman, well everyone really, who lost a son (or daughter) in this. She's strong though to do this. Do you know how long she's camped out so far? I'm just curious.

[Semjaza]

I'm not going to bother reading this in the future, but if anyone brings up things from O'Rielly and the Druge Report saying she was "happy" with her original visit with the President is a pretty large difference from what's in the actual interviews with her. It's the only real attack anyone can surmount against her because as far as I'm concerned, the President actually speaking to her on this would be a major PR move to help him out of these incredibly negative polls as of late.

[Morpheus]

This woman needs to get on with her life. [B]We are at war.[/B] In war, people ******* die, and there's nothing you can do about it. Her son probably didn't deserve to die, but he made a choice that he would die for his country should the necessity arise when he joined the armed forces.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Morpheus]This woman needs to get on with her life. [B]We are at war.[/B'] In war, people ******* die, and there's nothing you can do about it. Her son probably didn't deserve to die, but he made a choice that he would die for his country should the necessity arise when he joined the armed forces.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Yes, and you said yourself, [i]her[/i] son died. That has got to be a hard thing to deal with. Maybe she's just dealing with her grief in an extreme attention getting way. Who am I to judge?[/color]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Sorry folks I couldn't come up with a better title so deal with it.

Okay the whole deal with that this woman's son was killed in Iraq months ago and she's decided to camp out at President Bush's ranch in Crawford TX (30 miles or so from Waco-I've been there :animesigh ) until he'll talk to her. (I think she'd have better luck convincing Al Queida that we're [i]not[/i] infedeles, but that's just my humble opinion.)

The police have threatened to arrrest her, the president's motorcade drove right by her. G. W. Bush says that while he sympathizes ( *cough* bull crap *cough*) with her, pulling out of Iraq would bad. How?

Honestly I'm suprised that there isn't a thread on this subject already so I'm starting this one now. I think it's rather admirable that this woman is willing to risk imprisionment just to get her point across. Now what do you think?[/color][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]I think it's completely ludicrous she would risk getting locked up over this. Look, her son joined by choice. He knew there would be danger of death by going into Iraq. No one forced him into this. She must've known too. Everyone thinks that it's ALWAYS going to be the next guy/gal getting knocked off in war, but not yourself. This woman should realize that, quite frankly, sh_t happens in war, and unfortunately, that was her son.

As for pulling out of Iraq. Terrible idea in this stage of the game. We came into Iraq, uprooted their government, knocked out their electricity, and in general threw the country into a state of chaos with this war. We need to restore order, by instating a new, stable, centralized government that can handle things for themselves before we pull out. Leaving now would be extremely cowardly. Really, you have to finish what you start.[/SIZE]

[Elk]

It's hard when someone dies in a war because it is not their time. I think what that woman is doing is right. If Bush really cares about her, he would have at least heard her out. Of course people die in a war, but until it's someone that you love/know, it doesn't make as big an impact as it could. I'm not sure if we should pull out of Iraq or not, but I do have this to say, "The only busniess we had in Iraq was with Sadam, there is no reason for us to still be over there. Just because we think that our form of goverment is good, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. We shouldn't try to force our goverment on another contry." But whatever, that's just my opinion. And I say Bush sucks! Though her son did join by choice, so we can't blame Bush (that much). To join the military is a choice, and at least her son died fighting for something he believed in (I hope...).

[Zeta]

I don't believe that he should stop and talk to her, I agree with his actions here. Imagine if he did stop and meet with her. How many other fathers and mothers would come and camp out on his ranch, demanding a visit for their dead sons and daughters from the war?

And as Morpheus and Retribution said, he joined the armed forces by his own choice. There will always be the chance you will be called into duty, and could possibly be killed. You don't go into the armed forces expecting to never see any military action, which comes with the possibility of death.

[QUOTE]As for pulling out of Iraq. Terrible idea in this stage of the game. We came into Iraq, uprooted their government, knocked out their electricity, and in general threw the country into a state of chaos with this war. We need to restore order, by instating a new, stable, centralized government that can handle things for themselves before we pull out. Leaving now would be extremely cowardly. Really, you have to finish what you start.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't have said it better myself Retribution.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Zeta']I don't believe that he should stop and talk to her, I agree with his actions here. Imagine if he did stop and meet with her. How many other fathers and mothers would come and camp out on his ranch, demanding a visit for their dead sons and daughters from the war? .[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Well, seeing that [i]he's[/i] the reason that their sons and daughters are over there fighting and dying the least he can do is offer some sort of appology since she took the trouble to go over there. I know for a fact that when he was here visiting he took time to see the local family of a fallen soldier. It was a very good PR move and he should be glad that someone told him to do it. Maybe if he saw the woman who's camping outside his ranch his rating would go up.

I think if he really gave a crap about the men and women who are serving in this war he created he'd show some sympathy.[/color]

[Lafleur]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Did he go there by choice or by "choice?" Because somtimes people have no choice but to join the millitary, and once your there you have no choice but to go to Iraq (See: People crossing over to Canada to avoid the war) Maybe he was just there to get an education and than, ta-da, Bush goes and createst his magical little war and he gets killed. Hey, I'd be pretty ******* pissed at Bush (Moreso than I already am) if that happened to me or my relatives.

I don't think her goal is to risk imprisonment. Her goal is to either, a, get an audience with Bushie, or, b, show just how much of a dick he really is. I don't even think that's legally possible, being sent to jail for no reason. And if she does go to jail, it's just another victory for us leftists; Bushie's approval rating is already a mere 39%, imagine how much further it would drop if he started sending innocent people to Gitmo? (Exaggeration)

Hey, who knows, this could be the beggining of the end for Bushie and his Neo-Con buttbuddies. We'll have to wait and see...

Every death, be it in cold blood or in war, is a tragedy. No death should be written off as just another casuality. It's sickening. [/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Okay the whole deal with that this woman's son was killed in Iraq months ago and she's decided to camp out at President Bush's ranch in Crawford TX (30 miles or so from Waco-I've been there :animesigh ) until he'll talk to her. (I think she'd have better luck convincing Al Queida that we're [i]not[/i] infidels, but that's just my humble opinion.)

The police have threatened to arrest her, the president's motorcade drove right by her. G. W. Bush says that while he sympathizes ( *cough* bull crap *cough*) with her, pulling out of Iraq would bad. How?

Honestly I'm surprised that there isn't a thread on this subject already so I'm starting this one now. I think it's rather admirable that this woman is willing to risk imprisonment just to get her point across. Now what do you think?[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I recall hearing about this briefly on SkyNews a few days ago, I caught the tail end of the editorial about it. I agree with Chibi, it is rather admirable that she is willing to risk imprisonment to seek an apology from President Bush for the death of her son, though I get the feeling an apology won't be forthcoming from him. Personally I think President Bush should meet with her, even if to speak with her for a few minutes and give her some closure on her son's death, I'm not saying that he should go around to the family of every soldier killed in Iraq though it would be very commendable if he did. But he seems to have plenty of spare time, so why not spare a few minutes to help this grieving mother.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Retribution][SIZE=1']As for pulling out of Iraq. Terrible idea in this stage of the game. We came into Iraq, uprooted their government, knocked out their electricity, and in general threw the country into a state of chaos with this war. We need to restore order, by instating a new, stable, centralized government that can handle things for themselves before we pull out. Leaving now would be extremely cowardly. Really, you have to finish what you start.[/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Alex has said pretty much everything I was going to say, proper order and stability need to be established in Iraq before any thoughts of leaving, if America and it's allies in the war were to pull out now the situation in the country would deteriorate to a echelon much worse than that under Saddam Hussein. Chances are it would become a breeding ground for hardline anti-American terrorists like Al Qaeda , stirring up hatred among the Iraqis for what could be perceived as America?s cowardly withdrawal before the country was properly stabilised.

I?m not saying that it would definitely become something like that but when more than a hundred thousand Iraqis have died and you add to that the Abu Ghraib scandal, Guantanamo Bay and the fact of country still being unable to support itself when America and it?s allies left, well I?d say that scenario is an unfortunate but distinct possibility. As Alex said, you have an obligation to finish what you start, in everything in life.[/SIZE]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']Personally I think President Bush should meet with her, even if to speak with her for a few minutes and give her some closure on her son's death, I'm not saying that he should go around to the family of every soldier killed in Iraq though it would be very commendable if he did. But he seems to have plenty of spare time, so why not spare a few minutes to help this grieving mother.[/SIZE][/quote]

[color=darkviolet] Gavin is right (Hey he's Irish and the vast majority of Irish people (save the ones that keep the Catholic Protestant thing going) are usualy very smart) All this woman wants is some kind of closure for her son's death and he can't even be bothered to say 'I'm Sorry'

And Gavin, you're right about hving pleanty of time to do stuff. He's on a [i]five week[/i] vacation! I haven't had a five week vacation since my Sophomore year of high school because I've been working off and on since I was sixteen. I really don't think Texas and pregnancy count since I was still working in one way or another.

It's really not that hard to get out of your limo and say two friggin' words. Barbara should have taught her son some better manners.[/color]

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]
Alex has said pretty much everything I was going to say, proper order and stability need to be established in Iraq before any thoughts of leaving, if America and it's allies in the war were to pull out now the situation in the country would deteriorate to a echelon much worse than that under Saddam Hussein. Chances are it would become a breeding ground for hardline anti-American terrorists like Al Qaeda , stirring up hatred among the Iraqis for what could be perceived as America?s cowardly withdrawal before the country was properly stabilised.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Actualy, a much more likely scenario is that the country of Iraq would simply cease to be. It would more or less splinter into religious states that would be absorbed by the neighboring Middle Eastern countries, which would actualy, after the initial bloodshed (And there WILL be blood shed in any scenario) probably be better from the Iraqis. Countries like Iran could move in a pick up the pieces, because they are always looking for more territory and, even though Iran and Turkey and the like are pretty bad, the people of Iraq would end up better than they are now. Any number of things could happen if the US pulls out; frankly, many of them would be better than if the US stayed. All of them would be worse than when the US arrived, though.

A bad democracy (And trust me on this, a democracy in a country as religiously divided as Iraq is would be a complete disaster in less than a decade) is worse than a dictatorship, because at least a dictatorship keeps the country united, even if its by fear. [/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
Actualy, a much more likely scenario is that the country of Iraq would simply cease to be. It would more or less splinter into religious states that would be absorbed by the neighboring Middle Eastern countries, which would actualy, after the initial bloodshed (And there WILL be blood shed in any scenario) probably be better from the Iraqis. Countries like Iran could move in a pick up the pieces, because they are always looking for more territory and, even though Iran and Turkey and the like are pretty bad, the people of Iraq would end up better than they are now. Any number of things could happen if the US pulls out; frankly, many of them would be better than if the US stayed. All of them would be worse than when the US arrived, though.

A bad democracy (And trust me on this, a democracy in a country as religiously divided as Iraq is would be a complete disaster in less than a decade) is worse than a dictatorship, because at least a dictatorship keeps the country united, even if its by fear. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]You're kidding, right?

You think that a bloody war for the former Iraq's territory would be better than us stabilizing the country and installing a centralized government? Do you have any idea what the senario you're talking about would lead to? I'm talking mass war between those countries in the Middle East you mentioned. Not to mention hightened animosity towards Americans in general. Here, I'll put it like this:

You are living in a country with a dictator ruling you. Your country's stable -- not well off, but there's not riots or car bombings every other day either. The one day, a bordering country (if you live in Canada, say America, and vice versa) invaded you to remove your ruler. Alright, that's fine and dandy. But people in your country are pissed about this, and set off car bombs, riot, loot, and the fighting with the occupying country results in the loss of your power for months, possible loss in water, and possible loss in other general supply lines. Do you want this country to split and leave your relatively poor, unprepared nation to fend for itself and let neighboring countries have their pickings of your land? Would you appreciate it if you were living in one country, and then suddenly became assimilated to another? That's just if you manage to live through the emminent war that would ensue over the 'free' land.

Seriously, you're talking about mass war between several land-hungry powers. By giving these countries the prospect of land, they're going to want it all, and they won't be able to have it. Meaning big fights, and large numbers of civilian casualties. But really, who gives a f_ck, I mean, they're on the other side of the world, living in some poor a_s country anyway. Why bother cleaning up the mess we made, when we can retire to our nice, warm country, complete with food, water, power, and communications?

[QUOTE=ChibiHorseWoman] Gavin is right (Hey he's Irish and the vast majority of Irish people (save the ones that keep the Catholic Protestant thing going) are usualy very smart) All this woman wants is some kind of closure for her son's death and he can't even be bothered to say 'I'm Sorry'

And Gavin, you're right about hving pleanty of time to do stuff. He's on a five week vacation! I haven't had a five week vacation since my Sophomore year of high school because I've been working off and on since I was sixteen. I really don't think Texas and pregnancy count since I was still working in one way or another.

It's really not that hard to get out of your limo and say two friggin' words. Barbara should have taught her son some better manners.[/QUOTE]
Saying sorry. Hm... I don't think her anger is justified in the first place, so why should he go apologize for it? She shouldn't be so [i]angry[/i], as she should be [i]deeply grieved of her loss[/i]. Yes, it's an extremely tragic loss, but Bush didn't point the gun and pull the trigger. He signed up for the armed forces on his own free will, and died as a result. His mother should understand that, and realize no one forced him into this.[/SIZE]

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]
You think that a bloody war for the former Iraq's territory would be better than us stabilizing the country and installing a centralized government? Do you have any idea what the senario you're talking about would lead to? I'm talking mass war between those countries in the Middle East you mentioned. Not to mention hightened animosity towards Americans in general. Here, I'll put it like this:[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Think about it this way: Iraq is a country divided, basically, between the Shiites and the Sunni, with the Kurds curled up in the center getting ****** no matter who wins. Now, lets say that the person elected in a democratic election is Sunni. The Shiites would not take that lieing down; there would be mass revolts, and eventually a Shiite leader would be installed. And than the Sunni would get pissed and they'd revolt. It's the nature of Radical Islam (Not ignorance, just fact).
[/COLOR]
[QUOTE]
Seriously, you're talking about mass war between several land-hungry powers. By giving these countries the prospect of land, they're going to want it all, and they won't be able to have it. Meaning big fights, and large numbers of civilian casualties. But really, who gives a f_ck, I mean, they're on the other side of the world, living in some poor a_s country anyway. Why bother cleaning up the mess we made, when we can retire to our nice, warm country, complete with food, water, power, and communications?
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
No, I'm not. Because Radical and Imperial Islam is such a divided religion, and such a fiercly divided one, it would be a matter of religious-hungry countries like Iran and Turkey trying to get as many shiites or sunnis as possible to keep their regimes afloat; There is a chance, of course, either country will go on a bit of a Jihad againts the other; and it's, sadly, likely that the Kurds will get the short end of the stick again. I'm truely sorry for that; but at this point there is no way to help them. They'd be like the Third Party or the Green Party; accept here, they don't just feel disapointed about losing another election, they lose thousands in a bloody coup by the Shiites or Sunnis.

By the way, my country wasn't involved in creating the mess. We have no obligation to clean up the mess; only to be disapointed in the result of an ill-planned offensive by our neighbors.[/color]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE]Well, seeing that he's the reason that their sons and daughters are over there fighting and dying the least he can do is offer some sort of appology since she took the trouble to go over there. I know for a fact that when he was here visiting he took time to see the local family of a fallen soldier. It was a very good PR move and he should be glad that someone told him to do it. Maybe if he saw the woman who's camping outside his ranch his rating would go up.[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between him visiting someone while he is on the road than someone demanding him to visit him by camping outside of his ranch.

[QUOTE]Did he go there by choice or by "choice?" Because somtimes people have no choice but to join the millitary, and once your there you have no choice but to go to Iraq (See: People crossing over to Canada to avoid the war) Maybe he was just there to get an education and than, ta-da, Bush goes and createst his magical little war and he gets killed. Hey, I'd be pretty ******* pissed at Bush (Moreso than I already am) if that happened to me or my relatives. [/QUOTE]

So you are saying that just because someone joined the army for an education, means they shouldn't be called upon to serve if the time arises? I am sure that a vast majority of the people who enlist join for just that reason, someone to pay for their education.

Her son knew, or should have known what he was getting into when he joined the armed forces. You don't join and expect to never be called upon. And saying that is is Bush's reason alone that he is there is ridiculous. There are many more people who work with him, helped him make the decision, and so on.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Zeta']There is a difference between him visiting someone while he is on the road than someone demanding him to visit him by camping outside of his ranch.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]So basically doing a planned PR stunt rather than a spontaneous one is going to draw more warm feelings toward this guy? Yeah, I got ya.... And I don't like it.

This guy parades around talking about his [i]Christian[/i] faith and how he's [i]saved[/i] and a bunch of other malarky. The least he can do to prove he's really a follower of his faith instead of just blindly going where every man has gone before would be to do the heart felt appology bit. In his case it would have to be done with a bunch of cameras and when he appologizes to this woman personally he should do it live and public appology and heart felt regret to everyone else who has lost family.

I know it's probably hard for Bush to show remorse and compassion since he's a politician and everything, but he could at least try.[/color]

[Retribution]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman]']So basically doing a planned PR stunt rather than a spontaneous one is going to draw more warm feelings toward this guy? Yeah, I got ya.... And I don't like it.[/quote]
[SIZE=1]*shrug* It really won't matter if it's planned or spontaneous. It'll look all the same on TV. Him walking up to the home, a bunch of cameras crowded around to get a good shot through the windows. The woman feebly standing, nodding passively as Bush tells her some words we can't hear. Then he leaves, and addresses the cameras. And yeah, that would definitely raise more warm feelings for the guy, but I doubt he's going to do it.

[QUOTE]I know it's probably hard for Bush to show remorse and compassion since he's a politician and everything, but he could at least try.[/QUOTE]
How about [i]you[/i] act civilized and regard politicians as remorseful and compassionate. Just because some aren't doesn't mean Bush isn't a human being and feels those feelings. Look, I don't even support the guy and I have to defend him from that kind of low-blow. I think it's ignorant to lump all politicians together and say they can't be compassionate or remorseful -- My father's a politician for the record, and he's definitely working to improve the community, not try to get rich and leave people behind. His name's "Glenn Ivey" if you want to do research on him.[/SIZE]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE]
So basically doing a planned PR stunt rather than a spontaneous one is going to draw more warm feelings toward this guy? Yeah, I got ya.... And I don't like it.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you, but I would rather do something out of my own free will rather than someone demanding me to do it. *shrug* But again, what will it accomplish? Hundreds of other parents camping outside of his ranch? I fail to see what it would accomplish.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Retribution][SIZE=1'] *shrug* It really won't matter if it's planned or spontaneous. It'll look all the same on TV. Him walking up to the home, a bunch of cameras crowded around to get a good shot through the windows. The woman feebly standing, nodding passively as Bush tells her some words we can't hear. Then he leaves, and addresses the cameras. And yeah, that would definitely raise more warm feelings for the guy, but I doubt he's going to do it.[/quote][/size]

[color=darkviolet]Actually it may look a bit different to the American people this time around since she's going to him and his motorcade already drove by her once. She's a woman on a mission, he already claimed that the mission was accomplished in Iraq (and if that [i]is[/i] the case why can't we pull out) The least he can do is appologise to her face.[/color]

[quote name='Retribution][SIZE=1]How about [i]you[/i'] act civilized and regard politicians as remorseful and compassionate. Just because some aren't doesn't mean Bush isn't a human being and feels those feelings. Look, I don't even support the guy and I have to defend him from that kind of low-blow. I think it's ignorant to lump all politicians together and say they can't be compassionate or remorseful -- My father's a politician for the record, and he's definitely working to improve the community, not try to get rich and leave people behind. His name's "Glenn Ivey" if you want to do research on him.[/SIZE][/quote]

[color=darkviolet] Yeah fair enough- not [i]all[/i] politicians are unfeeling lumps of opporating organs- some of them have morals and feelings. However I thought I was being civil. As long as I didn't say he should pull his head from his butt I'm being civil. It wasn't a low blow. I just said I felt he was being unfeeling and got out of hand- I didn't make an attack on you.

Let's just focus on the subject now- woman wants appology- is there a snowball's chance in Hell she'll get it?[/color]

[Retribution]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Actually it may look a bit different to the American people this time around since she's going to him and his motorcade already drove by her once. She's a woman on a mission, he already claimed that the mission was accomplished in Iraq (and if that [i]is[/i'] the case why can't we pull out) The least he can do is appologise to her face.[/color][/quote]
[SIZE=1]Her 'mission' is going to fail. Let's face it -- the world's already forgotten about her. She had her 11 o'clock's news of fame. The jig's up. As for the whole "Mission Accomplished" that was a PR move. The mission's far from accomplished. Remember those WMDs he promised we'd find in there? Did he give ANY other reason to justify the war? Nope. So he's trying to change the mission, give the people something they can cheer about it.

[QUOTE][color=darkviolet]Let's just focus on the subject now- woman wants appology- is there a snowball's chance in Hell she'll get it?[/color][/QUOTE]
Nope.[/SIZE]

[Morpheus]

Him giving the apology would be the same as us pulling out of Iraq now. Hundreds more would think "I can do that too!" and we'd have chaos. Bush is actually thinking things through, and is now making the best decisions.

[Sara]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']Honestly I'm suprised that there isn't a thread on this subject already...[/color][/quote][color=#6699cc]I'm not. You're the only person who makes threads of this sort.

CNN: [url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/peace.mom.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest]Update, with comments on her love life.[/url]

To be frank, I don't have an opinion on this whole thing either way. I do, however, think it's unnecessary to bring the status of her marriage into the public eye.[/color]

[NorykoAngelcry]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=darkred]Honeslty, I don't see myself returning to this thread, as I am going to say what I can, with what knowledge I have, and leave it at that.

To the lady who lost her son, I'm sorry that you are having trouble dealing with it. I know it's no easy thing to lose a loved one, especially one that you brought into the world. While I'm sure you think it's very noble, heroic, or right of you to try to go and talk to President Bush and get answers, I would like you to look around. You are sitting in a country that allows you to just sit around all day long, with out having to worry about getting killed, for no reason, other then that you are there. Want to make a point? Join up the Red Cross or something, and go over to Iraq and help out people over there! Try your best to honor your sons name, not to suffer from your own personal bouts of depression over the matter. Sure, I'm being unfair, but how many mothers, fathers, brothers or sisters or sons and daughters lives are you trampling over, because you think it's wrong that YOUR son died. I know, I know.. You're doing this for everyone, right? Like I said, very noble.. to be petitioning a war, in your own country.

Whatever the reason that your son chose to sign up for the military, it's unfortunate that going to war was a possible side effect of that decision. I guess it's unfair that one signing up for the armed services to take money from the government for schooling, or whatever, should be met at all by a request that you serve your country? But then again, I guess it's always easier to critisize someone elses decisions..

Perhaps I'm being a little harsh, but currently, I have a brother who is in the Air Force, with a real possibility that he may be called into active duty. Do I hate my government for it? NO! Do I think that we need to pull out of Iraq? NO! I keep him in my prayers and thoughts, as I did with a very good friend that served two terms over in Iraq. I can't imagine what it would be like to have lost a friend, let alone the possibility that my brother may go over there and himself be killed.. I just can't. But what I won't do, is try to pin the blame on the President because he is chosing to take a stand on terrorism, that most people think we have no right to be there at all?.. right..

I keep looking in the news, perhaps thinking that the mother of a World Trade Center victim is over near a terrorist camp trying to get an interview with Osama Bin Laden to call for an end to terrorism.. but so far, I haven't seen any.

I don't know all the facts surrounding this war (nor am I really looking for anyone to try and tell me 'your' facts.. I'm not the most political person, nor am I the smartest when it comes to this war. But I've talked to my friend, who served two terms in Iraq, and how proud he was that he saved lives over there, lives that Sadam Hussien would have taken for any given reason, or none at all..

Oh, and if you want to yell at me, that's fine. PM me all day long. Like I said, I'm not sure that I will be returning to this thread, as I've said what I had to.. If you want to try to argue with me, go ahead. But I don't think it would be in your interest to try and 'correct' me, or to set me straight, in this thread.

Aaron~ [/SIZE][/COLOR]

[DeathBug]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]Did he go there by choice or by "choice?" Because somtimes people have no choice but to join the millitary, and once your there you have no choice but to go to Iraq (See: People crossing over to Canada to avoid the war)
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Wow. Just...that was insulting to every person serving in the armed forces. You sck beyond all measure.


...So, is there going to be a story about the hundreds of parents who aren't acting a fool over the death of their sons/daughters?

Honestly, this woman is using her son's death as a platform to spout her political opinions, then shielding herself from critisism with her son's body. She already had her audience with the President, but now that she's become more of an activist than she already was. The rest of her family has disavowed her actions, and her husband has divorced her because of this.

If my father had been killed in Africa when he was there under the Clinton administration, I wouldn't have blamed the president. If he had been killed in the Middle EAst under the Bush administration, I wouldn't blame the president. This woman is pimping out her personal tragedy, and I'm sick of it.

She's started giving advice on the Gaza strip and the tax code, for God's sake; why is anyone listening to her?