Do you believe that dinosaurs ever existed?

[Otaku America]

[COLOR=Navy]This is a question that I was asked when I was 12 years old by a friend of mine. My answer was yes, they have evidence in the form of bones.

16 is the age I stopped believing that dinosaurs roamed this planet 60 million years ago. I don't know who started this dinosaur propaganda but this is what I call "The magic of believing." If thermonuclear bombs(kills anything in a 75 mile radius, gives 3rd degree burns to anyone within a 14 mile radius) can be invented in the mid 1900's bones can easily be created. I believe anything can be created. Dinosarus are as real as UFO's.

There are a lot of websites that have dinosaur-bible debates but all of them lead to misunderstandings of the Holy Bible. There was no such creature or anyform of life before God created Earth in 6 days. Adam & Eve were given domination over all beasts alike so therefore it's impossible for dinosaurs to have walked the Earth.

Adam called unto each beast and that was its name. Dinosaurs wasn't one of them, this term came from some scientists who do not believe in God. The bible does describe some large creatures known as Behomoth's but the term back then might have been an oversized gorilla or more realistically a sabertooth tiger.

Also before the flooding Noah was ordered to bring 2 kinds of each beasts unto his ark. If dinosaurs where one of them wouldn't their be some kind of breed alive to this day?

I believe God can create such creatures but why would he when they're according to our myths too enormous? The only thing I believed that ever existed were Behemoths & the Leviathan Sea Creature because they're mentioned in the bible.

Dragons may not be what we see in movies but can be some kind of sinful creature that died during the flood. Even the Leviathan can be just a giant blue whale for the reason it's almost extinct to this day.

Do you believe that dinosaurs ever existed?[/COLOR]

[Stuart]

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy'] Dinosarus are as real as UFO's.[/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=SeaGreen]There's a problem with that theory. We don't have museums full of Alien remains, however we do with Dinosaurs. You can't even begin compare the existence of Dinosaurs to that of UFOs or Dragons. There just isn't evidence to support that UFOs or Dragons exsist(ed).This seems almost like a silly topic, but I believe that the science of dinosaurs is one that the bible can not argue with. Dinosaurs once roamed the earth, 60 million years ago; That is a fact. I, being an atheist, do not believe a word of the bible. I find the bible to be just as real as UFOs. I can believe that this is a touchy subject for religious groups, but in all honesty... How far will they go with thier beliefs? To deny the exsistence of something placed in their faces, cased in museums, all because there wasn't any talk about Dinosaurs in the bible? I find that ridiculus. I'd like to continue with my thoughts, later. Right now I'm going to get some rest.

If dinosaurs didn't exsist paleontoligests would be out of a job =P[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE=Hack Helba][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=SeaGreen]There's a problem with that theory. We don't have museums full of Alien remains, however we do with Dinosaurs. You can't even begin compare the existence of Dinosaurs to that of UFOs or Dragons. There just isn't evidence to support that UFOs or Dragons exsist(ed).This seems almost like a silly topic, but I believe that the science of dinosaurs is one that the bible can not argue with. Dinosaurs once roamed the earth, 6 billion years ago; That is a fact. I, being an athiest, do not believe a word of the bible. I find the bible to be just as real as UFOs. I can believe that this is a touchy subject for religious groups, but in all honesty... How far will they go with thier beliefs? To deny the exsistence of something placed in their faces, cased in museums, all because there wasn't any talk about Dinosaurs in the bible? I find that ridiculus. I'd like to continue with my thoughts, later. Right now I'm going to get some rest.

If dinosaurs didn't exsist paleontoligests would be out of a job =P[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Even if you don't believe in God, God is still with you. In the bible it says if you're not with God you're against him (also meaning, if you don't believe in him, your creator, you're against him and with the devil). I see where you are coming from but do you actually believe some accidental science theory created life on this Earth. Everything from the sky, mountains, water, even seasons all have different creations.

Those paleontoligists are as out of job as the Ufologist. The only thing they both have in common is that they're fake except that Ufo's have a much larger consipiracy theory. Roswell in Mexico anyone? I don't find this a touchy or silly subject so I don't know where that came from but this question has been asked for several decades. I don't recall Alexander the Great touting about dinosaurs. The word dinosaur wasn't invented until the late 1800's.

So there is no such thing as 6 billion years ago and this is me speaking objectively. Instead of the flood, it was a Pluto sized asteroid. This is where science came from, from those who started questioning their beliefs and started developing theories. Those so-called "theorists," don't know how old anything is they just make silly 600 million year old theories.

The Bible is the only thing out there that can explain our existance to the fullest extent. The only thing that can remain a fact for both believers and non-believers is that there is a greater being out there. With all the stars and the complexities of human nature how can one simply state life came from science? Back then, there were no cloning machines.

If science did create life it would have to start back in the early 1990's when the sheep Dorothy was created from human science. Wars back then where fought with horses and chain armor, now you have tanks that can destroy a target a mile away. Unlike Dinosaurs, UFO's have been questioned by the public to the military mulitple times. Even America is "One Nation Under God."
[/COLOR]

[Boo]

[size=1][color=gray]Actually, the bible does not deny the existance of the Dinosaur. Just because they never talk about them does not mean they don't exist. I strongly doubt that anything in the direction of the Platypus is ever mentioned in the bible (although I'm now curious and going to search for it).

What you do is reading the bible exactly as they show it to you. What if the seven days in which the world started, were seven whole eras? If you read the bible now, you think the world exists for 9000 years or so. If you read it [i]and think[/i] at the same time, the world [i]could[/i] exist for more than that, just because 'the seven days' were several million years.

[quote name='Otaku America']Also before the flooding Noah was ordered to bring 2 kinds of each beasts unto his ark. If dinosaurs where one of them wouldn't their be some kind of breed alive to this day?[/quote]

The dinosaurs could have already been extinct? Remember that that could've been thousands of years since the dinosaurs would have been roaming the earth.

To answer the actual question: I quite believe in dinosaurs. Certainly more than in UFO's.

On a side note: Yes I am a christian so I have read the bible enough to know atleast a bit what I'm saying. [/size][/color]

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]Even if you don't believe in God, God is still with you. In the bible it says if you're not with God you're against him (also meaning, if you don't believe in him, your creator, you're against him and with the devil). I see where you are coming from but do you actually believe some accidental science theory created life on this Earth. Everything from the sky, mountains, water, even seasons all have different creations.

Those paleontoligists are as out of job as the Ufologist. The only thing they both have in common is that they're fake except that Ufo's have a much larger consipiracy theory. Roswell in Mexico anyone? I don't find this a touchy or silly subject so I don't know where that came from but this question has been asked for several decades. I don't recall Alexander the Great touting about dinosaurs. The word dinosaur wasn't invented until the late 1800's.

So there is no such thing as 6 billion years ago and this is me speaking objectively. Instead of the flood, it was a Pluto sized asteroid. This is where science came from, from those who started questioning their beliefs and started developing theories. Those so-called "theorists," don't know how old anything is they just make silly 600 million year old theories.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana][color=#990033]
First of all, I'm not going to question your faith in god or anything. I know that you believe whatever is in the bible is true, but would if "Dinosaurs" were described in the bible? Well I found an interesting site that you might want to look at.
[QUOTE]
The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it?s spelled correctly?at least as close as we can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.

Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated ?dragon.? It is also translated ?serpent,? ?sea monster,? ?dinosaur,? ?great creature,? and ?reptile.? Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word ?dinosaur.? The word ?dinosaur? was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to ?Tanniyn.? To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.

?Dinosaur? Names, Then and Now
Name and date first written in the Bible Scientific Name (best estimate) and date the name appeared
tanniyn (dragon) before 1400 BC dinosaur 1841 AD
behemoth before 1400 BC brachiosaurus 1903 AD
Leviathan before 1400 BC kronosaurus 1901 AD

How we got these new names is interesting. In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an ?Iguanodon.? From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.
[/QUOTE]
You can read more [URL=http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/faq/dinosaurs.htm]Here[/URL] and [URL=http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml]Here[/URL]. This solves that bit of the arguement for it states that just because it didn't have the name "Dinosaur" does not mean it was not stated in the bible. You just have to look harder for it.

As far as Dinosaurs ever existing in real life, is kind of an obvious one. I find that really hard to take that you believe they don't exist especially when we have BONES of the creatures in museums around the world. Maybe you should go to one and see for yourself. Then maybe you'd have a change of heart. As far as the days go, Boo could be right. Seven days back then could have been a lot longer. You never really know. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Stuart]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=SeaGreen]I try to avoid religous issues, so I'll continue to after this. I respect and understand your faith, don't get me wrong. I apologize if my comment before offended you, It wasn't intended to a negative response.

[CENTER]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/CENTER]
The Bible?s Text

The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it?s spelled correctly?at least as close as I can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.

Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated ?dragon.? It is also translated ?serpent,? ?sea monster,? ?dinosaur,? ?great creature,? and ?reptile.? Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word ?dinosaur.? The word ?dinosaur? was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to ?Tanniyn.? To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.

How we got these new names is interesting. In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an ?Iguanodon.? From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.

Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24
[list]It ?moves his tail like a cedar.? (In Hebrew, this literally reads, ?he lets hang his tail like a cedar.?)[/list]
[list]Its ?bones are like beams of bronze,[/list]
[list]His ribs like bars of iron.?[/list]
[list]?He is the first of the ways of God.?[/list]
[list]?He lies under the lotus trees,[/list]
[list]In a covert of reeds and marsh.? [/list]

Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word ?behemoth? as ?elephant? or ?hippopotamus.? Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although an elephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant or a hippopotamus has a ?tail like a cedar? (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk). In your kid?s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have ?tails like a cedar.?

We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is ?He is the first of the ways of God.? This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.[B] [1] [/B]A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as ?the first of the ways of God.?

Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing?just enough to make the point.

[list]
?No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.?[/list]
[list]
?Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around??[/list]
[list]?His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.?[/list]
[list]
?His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.?[/list]
[list]
?Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.?[/list]
[list]?On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.?[/list]
[list]Leviathan ?played? in the ?great and wide sea? (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26?get the exact sense by reading them yourself).[/list]
[list]Leviathan is a ?reptile [a] that is in the sea.? (Isaiah 27:1)[/list]

Note: The word translated ?reptile? here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that ?Leviathan? was also a ?tanniyn? (dragon).

Unlike behemoth, who is huge, Leviathan is ferocious and terrifying. Many references (we have not listed them all) refer to the sea, so Leviathan is probably a sea creature. Although some bibles refer to Leviathan as an alligator or crocodile (and both of these are fierce) neither of these is a sea creature. They like the water, but they spend much of their time on land. Further, the question ?Who can open the doors of his face. . . .? implies that nobody can open Leviathan?s jaws. Although an alligator's jaws cannot normally be forced open, a punch to their sensitive snout or poke in eye might startle them enough to release their grip.[B] [2] [/B]Although this is a good description of an alligator characteristic, it does not fit perfectly with the description of Leviathan, which in the context of the Bible was supposed to describe an essentially impossible event, and we are not done yet.

The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan?s armor, iron is like straw and arrows ca not make it flee. Let?s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them?or any living animal we are aware of.

And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today?s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don?t you agree?

Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:

[list]The history of every culture is filled with stories of fire-breathing dragons. If you think about it, in all the past ages wouldn?t someone have made up a story of a fire-breathing lion or something? Nobody did because the dragon stories are based on truth, and only ?dragons? breathed fire. It is easy to imagine Leviathan as a member of the dragon (tanniyn) family. (Plus, Isaiah 27:1 strongly implies this connection.)[/list]
[list]Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as ?gas tanks? for the combustible mixture used to ?breathe fire?? We believe it does.[/list]
Comparing all this information to the description in your kid?s dinosaur book, you may come up with the conclusion that Leviathan is a kronosaurus. We have heard (and read) other suggestions, but the kronosaurus is the best match of any known creature to the description of Leviathan.

The Accuracy of the Bible

Some people believe that the Bible is not a scientifically accurate book, and that it is only a ?spiritual book,? that forgot about dinosaurs or described them incorrectly. This is not the case. Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information.

All information provided by [url]http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Sandy]

Otaku America, do realize that you're actually saying it is [I]wrong[/I] to believe in something you [I]see[/I], like dinosaur bones, while it is [I]right[/I] to believe in something you [I]don'[/I]t, like God.

I don't think this is a debate of religion vs. atheism, to me it's [I]ignorance vs. reason[/I]!

OA, thousands and thousands of paleontologists and other researchers have dug up dinosaur bones for two centuries now and dedicated their whole lives to know more about the lifeforms that inhabited the Earth before us, and you're ridiculing and diminishing them with a few unexplained arguments?!

You are certainly commiting one of the deadly sins: pride. You honestly think you're above everybody and everything else? As I said in the other thread, get over yourself!

And don't say you're only repeating the words of your God, because you said them, not anybody else. Take responsibility for your own words.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Is it a surprise that the same person who is telling us dinosaurs do not exist is also someone who is telling us, with great certainty, that God exists? It really shouldn't be a surprise. lol

Anyway, this topic reminds me of the moon landing topic (something like "Do you believe the moon landing ever happened?) Well, okay, we'll all just deny the mountains of evidence that exists and exercise a little "reality control".

Hack Helba, plenty of people have proved that the Bible contains inaccurate information. That is, if you take it literally. If you take Genesis literally, then I can tell you that it's been consistently disproven throughout history. lol

In any case, I don't even really want to argue that dinosaurs did exist. If we can't even get to [i]that[/i] basic level of understanding, then there's really no point even worrying about it.

I've recommended a book here a few times, though I don't know if anyone has read it. It's called "Telling Lies for God" and is written by a geologist called Ian Plimer. It basically goes through the fallacy of creationism and "creation science". But more importantly, it goes into great detail in terms of disproving the Great Flood and various other mythical events.

Don't forget, Otaku America, that a great many years of research have gone into dinosaurs/fossils and Earth geology. It is ridiculous to think that this is all one great big conspiracy - largely because conspiracy theories of that size, by default, can't really occur. Science is based on empirical, testable evidence. Scientists are always trying to clarify one another's theories and improve their knowledge. So that competitiveness had led not only to discoveries, but to clarifications on what we already know.

So yeah, if you think that all of the fossils and carbon dating and so on are all fake...then I can tell you, a great many things we know about the world wouldn't be possible right now. It's all inter-linked. And if you really believe that none of those things are true - despite the overwhelming evidence - then perhaps it's better that you have your head in the sand. At least it's comfortable.[/font]

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE]Actually, the bible does not deny the existance of the Dinosaur. Just because they never talk about them does not mean they don't exist. I strongly doubt that anything in the direction of the Platypus is ever mentioned in the bible (although I'm now curious and going to search for it).
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I know the bible doesn't deny the existance of Dinosaurs but it's true that they don't exist. The Bible describes large creatures but not large "reptiles," which are the human's imagination of a dinosaur.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]What you do is reading the bible exactly as they show it to you. What if the seven days in which the world started, were seven whole eras? If you read the bible now, you think the world exists for 9000 years or so. If you read it and think at the same time, the world could exist for more than that, just because 'the seven days' were several million years.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Navy]
This would have been a good point for the people who haven't read the Holy Bible all the way through. Since God is an eternal being, thousands of years could seem like yesterday but in Genesis it has already been proven that when the Bible mentions a day, it is a 24 hour period.

God says in Genesis verse 5,

"And there was [B]evening[/B] and there was [B]morning[/B], [B]one day[/B]."

Verse 8: "And there was [B]evening[/B] and there was[B] morning[/B], a s[B]econd day[/B]."

Verse 13: "There was [B]evening[/B] and there was [B]morning[/B], a [B]third day[/B]."

It's clear that God created everything within 6 days. What would the Bible be if 6 days where millions of eras as you stated? That would be false. It's impossible for God to create the Earth in 6 million era's. Take the verses above and add thousands or millions of years, it wouldn't make any sense at all.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]The dinosaurs could have already been extinct? Remember that that could've been thousands of years since the dinosaurs would have been roaming the earth.

To answer the actual question: I quite believe in dinosaurs. Certainly more than in UFO's.

On a side note: Yes I am a christian so I have read the bible enough to know atleast a bit what I'm saying.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Dinosaurs couldn't have been extinct because God created everything according to his will in 6 days. Why would he create such large creatures that serve no purpose? God never created such foul beasts to roam the Earth with humankind. Adam & Eve were here before any kinds of beasts. [/COLOR]

[QUOTE]You can read more Here and Here. This solves that bit of the arguement for it states that just because it didn't have the name "Dinosaur" does not mean it was not stated in the bible. You just have to look harder for it.

As far as Dinosaurs ever existing in real life, is kind of an obvious one. I find that really hard to take that you believe they don't exist especially when we have BONES of the creatures in museums around the world. Maybe you should go to one and see for yourself. Then maybe you'd have a change of heart. As far as the days go, Boo could be right. Seven days back then could have been a lot longer. You never really know.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Those sites don't have the knowledge I possess of the Holy Scriptures. I've read the King James Version of the Holy Bible once and the New King James of the Version once. Why would god have such imperfect creations? Millions of people around the world don't believe in dinosaurs, Iraq's entire population doesn't believe in dinosaurs. That alone is over 30 million people.

I've been to a lot of museums in California and bones can easily be made at little to no expense. Why is there the same exact T-Rex in every museum? Don't tell me they found hundreds of the same fossils around the world? LOL. Why would fossils exist when human and animal bones crumble after several years when you're no longer living? How can these fossils hold up today if they were millions of years old?

It just doesn't make sense.

There are no dragon bones yet they existed. That's why I said Dragons did exist. Back in Roman times, Romans had mosaic's which carried Dragon drawings and that's around 2nd or 3rd century A.D.

As for the Helba's links, those = no knowledge. They're just taking what they know today and adding it in with the Holy scriptures to try and solve the puzzle of "Where does the Dinosaur fit in the Holy Bible?"

Since a lot of you believe in dinosaurs, did Satan create the dinosaurs since God clearly did not?

Also as for the Moses & the Ark, Moses was 800 years old & dinosaurs couldn't have exist if he didn't bring them in the Ark. The creatures that fell prey to the flood where dragons which people didn't hunt. Behemoths, & the Leviathan are the only dinosaur like creatures mentioned in the entire Holy Bible.

Verse 19, states the Behemoth was the "chief ways of God." This leads me to believe a dinosaur is highly unlikely but a large creature surely.[/color]

[COLOR=DarkGreen]15 ?Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.

[b]Made along a human and grass is on the ground..[/b]

16 See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.

[b]Sound familiar yet?[/b]

17 He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.

[b]Moves[I] like[/I] a cedar[/b]

18 His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.

[b]I've never seen any bronze dinosaur bones.[/b]

19 He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.

[b]Only God can destroy this creature, not an asteroid.[/b]

20 Surely the mountains yield food for him,
And all the beasts of the field play there.

[b]If this were a dinosaur I doubt it would play with all kinds of beasts predatory or not.[/b]

21 He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.

[b]This behomoth wasn't tall since Lotus trees are your everyday average-sized trees.[/b]

22 The lotus trees cover him with their shade;
The willows by the brook surround him.

[b]Must have been some sort of elephant similar to a Mammoth.[/b]

23 Indeed the river may rage,
Yet he is not disturbed;
He is confident, though the Jordan gushes into his mouth,

[b]Mammoths are larger scale-sized elephant looking creatures.[/b]

24 Though he takes it in his eyes,
Or one pierces his nose with a snare.

[b]Still sounds like an oversized elephant, aka The Mammoth.[/b][/COLOR]

[IMG]http://tinyurl.com/avta2[/IMG]

[COLOR=DarkGreen]Job 41

1 ?Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook,
Or snare his tongue with a line which you lower?

2 Can you put a reed through his nose,
Or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he make many supplications to you?
Will he speak softly to you?

4 Will he make a covenant with you?
Will you take him as a servant forever?

5 Will you play with him as with a bird,
Or will you leash him for your maidens?

6 Will your companions make a banquet of him?
Will they apportion him among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his skin with harpoons,
Or his head with fishing spears?

8 Lay your hand on him;
Remember the battle?
Never do it again!

9 Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false;
Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him?

10 No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.
Who then is able to stand against Me?

11 Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him?
Everything under heaven is Mine.

12 ?I will not conceal his limbs,
His mighty power, or his graceful proportions.

13 Who can remove his outer coat?
Who can approach him with a double bridle?

14 Who can open the doors of his face,
With his terrible teeth all around?

15 His rows of scales are his pride,
Shut up tightly as with a seal;

16 One is so near another
That no air can come between them;

17 They are joined one to another,
They stick together and cannot be parted.

18 His sneezings flash forth light,
And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lights;
Sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke goes out of his nostrils,
As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.

21 His breath kindles coals,
And a flame goes out of his mouth.

22 Strength dwells in his neck,
And sorrow dances before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are joined together;
They are firm on him and cannot be moved.

24 His heart is as hard as stone,
Even as hard as the lower millstone.

25 When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid;
Because of his crashings they are beside themselves.

26 Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail;
Nor does spear, dart, or javelin.

27 He regards iron as straw,
And bronze as rotten wood.

28 The arrow cannot make him flee;
Slingstones become like stubble to him.

29 Darts are regarded as straw;
He laughs at the threat of javelins.

30 His undersides are like sharp potsherds;
He spreads pointed marks in the mire.

31 He makes the deep boil like a pot;
He makes the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 He leaves a shining wake behind him;
One would think the deep had white hair.

33 On earth there is nothing like him,
Which is made without fear.

34 He beholds every high thing;
He is king over all the children of pride.?

[b]The Leviathan =Sea Dragon[/b][/COLOR]

[IMG]http://tinyurl.com/b733q[/IMG]

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Otaku America][color=Navy']It's impossible for God to create the Earth in 6 million era's.[/quote] [font=Trebuchet MS][color=black]The word 'omnipotent' means 'able to do anything', so I would argue that if God wanted to create something in six million eras then he most likely could have done.

Nobody's disputing that the face value word of the Bible states that God created the Universe in six days. We're disputing that you should [b]interpret [/b]it at face value. Why is it so hard for you to even [b]consider [/b]that the 'six days' thing could be a simple [b]metaphor?

[/b][quote name='Otaku America][/color][/font][/color][color=Navy]Why is there the same exact T-Rex in every museum?[/color][color=Navy][font=Trebuchet MS'][color=black][/quote] w00t?

Now look what you've done, you've made me revert into l33tsp34k. What do you mean? There [b]isn't [/b]the exact same T-Rex in every museum. Just because they're all the same shape doesn't mean they're all the same fossil - we're all the same shape too, but we're not all the same person.

[quote name='Otaku America][/color][/font][/color][color=Navy]Those sites don't have the knowledge I possess of the Holy Scriptures. I've read the King James Version of the Holy Bible once and the New King James of the Version once.[/color][color=Navy][font=Trebuchet MS'][color=black][/quote] So you've read the Bible twice and you're claiming ultimate knowledge? I've read [i]Battle Royale [/i]twice and I still can't remember what order the students die in ... do you have an eidetic memory or something?
[/color][/font][/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=FireBrick][SIZE=1][quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']If thermonuclear bombs(kills anything in a 75 mile radius, gives 3rd degree burns to anyone within a 14 mile radius) can be invented in the mid 1900's bones can easily be created. I believe anything can be created. [/COLOR][/quote]I admire this attitude, this belief that humans can achieve anything. Yet study of these bones serve no other purpose than for study of ancient environments and faunal succession. Was the theory created in an effort to destabilize an institution, say, the Church? Will Dan Brown write about this conspiracy and add another bestseller under his belt? Mmm hmm.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Also before the flooding Noah was ordered to bring 2 kinds of each beasts unto his ark. If dinosaurs where one of them wouldn't their be some kind of breed alive to this day?[/quote]If modern animals did come from the Ark, shouldn't species propagate in a concentric manner around Mount Ararat, the supposed "Cradle of Life" after the Great Deluge?

Or as an example, given the theory that Australia separated from the other continents sometime in the Cretaceous Period (145-65 million years ago), how do you account for the marsupials? What I mean is, records show that humans appeared only in the Quaternary Period (1.8 million years ago to the present. That means it's beyond Biblical record (or at least Genesis' sixth day) and, consequently, no Ark. The Ark story should have happened some 65 million years ago.

Even theologists/ians admit that the world wasn't created in 6 days. It is but a [i]representation[/i], something that shouldn't be taken literally.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Do you believe that dinosaurs ever existed?[/COLOR][/quote]Yes, I firmly believe that dinosaurs once roamed this planet.

[quote name='from another forum']Everything we see in geology points in one direction - it's not the fault of geology if it happens to point in the direction that doesn't agree with your Biblical myths.[/quote]
This is fun![/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Otaku America]

[quote name='Sage]Otaku America, do realize that you're actually saying it is [I]wrong[/I] to believe in something you [I]see[/I], like dinosaur bones, while it is [I]right[/I] to believe in something you [I]don'[/I']t, like God.[/quote]
[COLOR=Navy]
Actually, you're quoting a human. "I'll believe it when I see it." Sorry that doesn't apply to God. Why would God show himself to sinful humans? You logic is flawed.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]I don't think this is a debate of religion vs. atheism, to me it's [I]ignorance vs. reason[/I]!

OA, thousands and thousands of paleontologists and other researchers have dug up dinosaur bones for two centuries now and dedicated their whole lives to know more about the lifeforms that inhabited the Earth before us, and you're ridiculing and diminishing them with a few unexplained arguments?![/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Sorry, you DON'T possess the knowledge to know that paleontoglogists have dug up bones for two centuries. You [B]clearly[/B] didn't read my posts. Unexplained arguments? I fail to see where I didnt' explained. In the 1800's we where at war, not digging up some imagined bones which all have the same exact structure across the world.[/COLOR]

[quote]You are certainly commiting one of the deadly sins: pride. You honestly think you're above everybody and everything else? As I said in the other thread, get over yourself!

[COLOR=Navy]And don't say you're only repeating the words of your God, because you said them, not anybody else. Take responsibility for your own words.[/QUOTE]

Where on Earth did you think I was above everyone else? From your poor post alone, I'm already above you since you didn't contribute anything to this thread like the others have. Pride isn't a sin period, lol.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Is it a surprise that the same person who is telling us dinosaurs do not exist is also someone who is telling us, with great certainty, that God exists? It really shouldn't be a surprise. [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Even is you don't believe in God he is with you. Why would dinosaurs roam the Earth? To eat Adam and Eve? lol.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Anyway, this topic reminds me of the moon landing topic (something like "Do you believe the moon landing ever happened?) Well, okay, we'll all just deny the mountains of evidence that exists and exercise a little "reality control". [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]This statement only comes from watching Futurama. Don't you remember the people who died in the Columbia Space Shuttle Crash? The government doesn't pay Nasa billions of dollars for the sake of fake Hollywood moon landing. Unlike "theorists," astronauts are dead real. [/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Hack Helba, plenty of people have proved that the Bible contains inaccurate information. That is, if you take it literally. If you take Genesis literally, then I can tell you that it's been consistently disproven throughout history. lol[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]How can the Bible have inacurrate information when it's the word of God? God is the only perfect being. Genesis is the most important chapter of the Bible so how can mere humans disprove it throughout history? #1 sold book around the world is the Holy Bible. Every year it still sells millions. Not only that the Holy Bible has reached billions of people. Go to a church and ask if dinosaurs exist, they'll simply tell you No.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]I've recommended a book here a few times, though I don't know if anyone has read it. It's called "Telling Lies for God" and is written by a geologist called Ian Plimer. It basically goes through the fallacy of creationism and "creation science". But more importantly, it goes into great detail in terms of disproving the Great Flood and various other mythical events.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]A geologist? lol. Who gave Ian Plimer life? Science? People that have read the Bible know for a fact the flood was real. Do you also believe that we evolved from apes? lol., God created Adam & Eve in full form. All this science propaganda is simple falsehood.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Don't forget, Otaku America, that a great many years of research have gone into dinosaurs/fossils and Earth geology. It is ridiculous to think that this is all one great big conspiracy - largely because conspiracy theories of that size, by default, can't really occur. Science is based on empirical, testable evidence. Scientists are always trying to clarify one another's theories and improve their knowledge. So that competitiveness had led not only to discoveries, but to clarifications on what we already know.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Science only helps when it comes to space travel or some sort of tricky machinery, or simply how our body systems function. If you believe in dinosaurs then how were they created if you don't believe in God? Do you think "science," gave humans and animals hearts, brains, skeletal system, nerves, emotions? That is highly unlikely. There is no sort of evidence in the world that makes science the answer to life.

To me, it's impossible for this science to give dinosaurs teeth and claws if you believe they existed. Theories about dinosaurs & the Earth are nothing but then the human imagination. Just because Jurrasic Park showed dinosaurs does't mean the bones in the museum are actually dinosaur bones.

The actual dinosaur like species that exist today would be in the form of a Kimodo Dragon, not some Triceratops. It's funny they teach you about dinosaurs when you're in preschool so when you grow up, you actually believe it. Why don't they teach you about dinosaurs in College?
[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]So yeah, if you think that all of the fossils and carbon dating and so on are all fake...then I can tell you, a great many things we know about the world wouldn't be possible right now. It's all inter-linked. And if you really believe that none of those things are true - despite the overwhelming evidence - then perhaps it's better that you have your head in the sand. At least it's comfortable[/QUOTE]

T[COLOR=Navy]he only heads that are in the sand are those palentologists. There is a difference between reading the Bible & knowing the Bible. I know the Bible first-hand and I know the real science, the medical science. Frankly that is the only science that matters in human life. Sure humans have created plenty of things that are useful in our everyday lives thanks to science, but humans can't lay a factual theory on how old the Earth was or fill our minds with BS, that Dinosaurs were here for 65 million years and an asteriod made them all extinct globally.

BS theories like that belong in movies titled "science-fiction." Dinosaurs are as real as King Kong. Put two fictional creatures in a movie & you get a remake of a classic.[/COLOR]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]So, let's replace the 'facts' in a book which is, let's face it, not even believed in by more than half of the world's population. let's also ignore the fact that there [b]are[/b] bones, and that it is reasonable to postulate where they come from. Let's pretend it's all a big conspiracy. Let's pretend that there is not an over-abundance of evidence to support the existence of dinosaurs.

Yeah. Geez, who needs all that stuff anyway?

[quote name='Otaku America']"It's impossible for God to create the Earth in 6 million era's"[/quote]

Yeah, but six days is, y'know, reasonable.

Let's also face the facts that you have no idea. If you ignore physical [b]reality[/b], and base everything in your life from a book - and a religious book at that - then you are a fool. And probably too much of one to overcome your own willing blindness.[/size]

[JJ]

[QUOTE=Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]
Actually, you're quoting a human. "I'll believe it when I see it." Sorry that doesn't apply to God. Why would God show himself to sinful humans? You logic is flawed.[/COLOR][/Quote]

In the same token there, why doesn't God show himself to the Pope? The Pope's always been a holy figure, but yet, you don't see God showing himself to him.

[quote name='Otaku America][Color=Navy']Pride isn't a sin period, lol.[/Color][/quote]

And you say you've read the bible. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins my friend. Emphasis on deadly.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Even is you don't believe in God he is with you. Why would dinosaurs roam the Earth? To eat Adam and Eve? lol.[/COLOR][/quote]

If you want to follow the timeline thing, for all you know, dinosaurs could have died out before Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']to a church and ask if dinosaurs exist, they'll simply tell you No.[/COLOR][/quote]

Actually, that statements wrong. Not every religion shares the same beliefs there. So be specific next time. ;)

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Science only helps when it comes to space travel or some sort of tricky machinery, or simply how our body systems function.[/Color][/quote]

This statements a bit hypocritical, don't you think? This whole time you've been preaching about how false science is, and yet, you say it helps when it comes to other things, just not dinosaurs. Convience I tell you!


[quote name='Otaku America][Color=Navy']If you believe in dinosaurs then how were they created if you don't believe in God?[/Color][/quote]

More evidence of dinosaurs than God. I mean you've got millions of bones from dinosaurs, and just some book written by humans supposedly under God's influence.

Which would the average person pick?

[quote name='Otaku America][Color=Navy']Do you think "science," gave humans and animals hearts, brains, skeletal system, nerves, emotions? That is highly unlikely. There is no sort of evidence in the world that makes science the answer to life.[/color][/quote]

There's not a huge argument there, but, if science is the word of man, the Bible is too. God didn't write the Bible himself, did he? I believe it was written by man. So really it's which opinion of man's do you stand by.

[quote name='Otaku America][Color=Navy']Just because Jurrasic Park showed dinosaurs does't mean the bones in the museum are actually dinosaur bones.[/Color][/quote]

Hey! I'd put my life on Jurrasic Park being right! ;)

[quote name='Otaku America][Color=Navy']Why don't they teach you about dinosaurs in College?[/COLOR][/quote]

Because you choose not to learn about dinosaurs. ;)

EDIT: I totally forgot my opinion on the matter at hand. XD

I figure, that dinosaurs roamed, because there's too much evidence that proves it. In comparison to the almost not evident evidence against it.

I've always been a, I've got to see it to believe kind of person so evidence always goes over well with me.

[Otaku America]

[COLOR=Navy]The word 'omnipotent' means 'able to do anything', so I would argue that if God wanted to create something in six million eras then he most likely could have done.

Nobody's disputing that the face value word of the Bible states that God created the Universe in six days. We're disputing that you should interpret it at face value. Why is it so hard for you to even consider that the 'six days' thing could be a simple metaphor?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Navy]Sorry, one that posseses [B]"actual"[/B] Bible knowledge do not resort in simple metaphors. That million year theory is what humans who didn't understand the Bible came up with. I already proved I was 100% correct.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]w00t?

Now look what you've done, you've made me revert into l33tsp34k. What do you mean? There isn't the exact same T-Rex in every museum. Just because they're all the same shape doesn't mean they're all the same fossil - we're all the same shape too, but we're not all the same person.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]So far, the museums I've been to have the same exact measurements for each bone. They all look like exact carbon copies. Just like all those alien autopsies. If Dinosaurs existed, I don't there would be a vegetable eating T-Rex and a bone-crunching T-Rex. I see your point in humans, but as far as dinosaurs go I have to debunk it with my beliefs/facts.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]So you've read the Bible twice and you're claiming ultimate knowledge? I've read Battle Royale twice and I still can't remember what order the students die in ... do you have an eidetic memory or something?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]First, I didn't claim ultimate knowledge and secondly I understand the Bible, I didn't simply spend 1 1/2 years reading through one version of the Holy Bible just for the sake of reading through it. There is a difference between reading what's on google and actually stating what you know from the Bible.

Yes, I have great memory when it comes to things I deeply study such as the Bible. I've read through Battle Royale also and still don't know the order in which the teens die in because I just read that for the sake of reading it.

A lot of people can read the Bible but only a few understand it.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE]
Yeah, but six days is, y'know, reasonable.

Let's also face the facts that you have no idea. If you ignore physical reality, and base everything in your life from a book - and a religious book at that - then you are a fool. And probably too much of one to overcome your own willing blindness.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Sorry, one who uses childish namecalling is the fool themselves. You don't think 6 days isn't reasonable for God? lol. Where is your opinion on the matter of this subject? Blindness? That would be you, hence your useless post just for the sake of bashing.[/COLOR]

[quote]In the same token there, why doesn't God show himself to the Pope? The Pope's always been a holy figure, but yet, you don't see God showing himself to him.[/quote]

[color=navy]You simply misunderstood my statement but I see where you are coming from. If God showed himself to one person it would be the end of the world. God is not suppose to show until Jesus?s 2nd coming where he shall cast down flames from heaven to devour this world and turn this place into hell. In the beginning god cast a great flood upon the Earth and in the end got cast a great fire upon the Earth. The Pope isn?t considered holy by Christians because they altered their version of the Holy Bible. [/color]


[quote]And you say you've read the bible. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins my friend. Emphasis on deadly.[/quote]

[color=navy]Sorry, I meant to put *deadly* sin. Pride isn?t a deadly sin according to the Bible. The motive of heart is pride.

[b]"when pride comes, then comes dishonor.[/b] I don?t see any dishonor in my posts besides some users in here that see it as pride.[/color]

[quote]If you want to follow the timeline thing, for all you know, dinosaurs could have died out before Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden.[/quote]

[color=navy]The timeline starts when God created the Heavens & the Earth. So you?re implying that dinosaurs were on Earth before God even created it?[/color]

[quote]Actually, that statements wrong. Not every religion shares the same beliefs there. So be specific next time.[/quote]

[color=navy]Yes, you got me there.[/color] :p


[quote]This statements a bit hypocritical, don't you think? This whole time you've been preaching about how false science is, and yet, you say it helps when it comes to other things, just not dinosaurs. Convience I tell you![/quote]

[color=navy]Let?s be honest, what?s the point of believing in Dinosaurs if they were never there in the first place?[/color]

[quote]More evidence of dinosaurs than God. I mean you've got millions of bones from dinosaurs, and just some book written by humans supposedly under God's influence.

Which would the average person pick? [/quote]

[color=navy]You have a point but what if the bones are actually fakes? The Holy Bible is simply not a book. Do you know the Holy Bible is actually multiple books from scriptures in the form of scrolls? God?s existence is simply proved all around us. Do you see the sun, stars, moon, the sea? Everything that is nature is what God created. [/color]

[quote] There's not a huge argument there, but, if science is the word of man, the Bible is too. God didn't write the Bible himself, did he? I believe it was written by man. So really it's which opinion of man's do you stand by.[/quote]

[color=navy]Read the last page of Revelation and tell me if Man said that. Everything in the Bible has been sealed in stone. Man cannot create a Bible that consists of different books. Man can only translate it into the form of the Holy Bible.[/color]

[quote]Because you choose not to learn about dinosaurs.[/quote]

[color=navy]If there is an actual college that teaches about dinosaurs, I?ll be much obliged to join.[/color]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]
Sorry, you DON'T possess the knowledge to know that paleontoglogists have dug up bones for two centuries. You [B]clearly[/B] didn't read my posts. Unexplained arguments? I fail to see where I didnt' explained. In the 1800's we where at war, not digging up some imagined bones which all have the same exact structure across the world.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

And YOU do?! I'm sorry, but every single one of your so called arguments are either based on the Bible or sheer ignorance! I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a historical document, so there's no use trying to pound my head with it.

I see clearly that you're too young to understand that life isn't all black-and-white, but your attitude still saddens me.

You truly are stupid, in the most basic meaning of the word. There is something called [I]school[/I], did you not go there? They should teach you these very simple and understandable things that are proven by people far smarter than you and me.

Of course I'm not saying you should take everything for granted, but you fail to see that you ARE in fact taking everything IN THE BIBLE for granted. For that, you are a fool.

Oh, and the 1800's are a full century, there wasn't one big continuing war that every single human on the Earth participated going on! They had plenty of time to dig up bones, trust me. This is one of the things they teach you in the [I]school[/I].

You really should try it, you really should!

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Otaku America']Pride isn't a sin period, lol.[/quote] [font=Trebuchet MS]And with that statement you just lost [b]all [/b]credibility as the Bible expert you seem to be claiming to be. Pride is not only a sin. It's one of the seven [b]deadly [/b]sins. In fact it's widely accepted as the most heinous of all seven (the others, since you probably don't know those either, are lust, covetousness, gluttony, envy, wrath and sloth).

Like Revue said, what would be the [b]point [/b]of creating a massive conspiracy to make people believe dinosaurs existed when they didn't? You, personally, don't believe in them, so you've assumed it's a conspiracy. But what would be the point? It would be a colossal waste of time, money and effort.

[quote name='Otaku America][/font][color=Navy]In the 1800's we where at war, not digging up some imagined bones which all have the same exact structure across the world.[/color'][font=Trebuchet MS][/quote] All humans have the exact same bone structure, are we a hoax too? I really don't see what point you're trying to make there. Also, it's possible for some people to conduct archaeology while others have wars. Not everyone has to do the same thing at the same time.

[quote name='Otaku America][/font][color=Navy]Just because Jurrasic Park showed dinosaurs does't mean the bones in the museum are actually dinosaur bones.[/color'][font=Trebuchet MS][/quote] No, the fact that the bones are in the museum and are proven to have belonged to real living creatures in the world's distant past means the bones in the museum are dinosaur bones. We don't base our science off Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park based its premise off science.

[quote name='Otaku America][/font][color=Navy]Why don't they teach you about dinosaurs in College?[/color'][font=Trebuchet MS][/quote] They do if you read Archaeology, Paleontology or Prehistory.

.:EDIT:.
Sage, please don't let your frustration get the better of you and degenerate into name-calling. I know science vs. religion debates can get extremely firey, so let's try and buck the trend by keeping this one civil.
[/font]

[Doukeshi]

[SIZE=1][QUOTE=Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]
Sorry, you DON'T possess the knowledge to know that paleontoglogists have dug up bones for two centuries. You [B]clearly[/B] didn't read my posts. Unexplained arguments? I fail to see where I didnt' explained. In the 1800's we where at war, not digging up some imagined bones which all have the same exact structure across the world.[/COLOR][/quote]

How do you know that Sage doesn't possess the knowledge, for all you know he could [i]be[/i] a paleontologist. Also, in the 1800s we were at war, were we all at war? Was every single human on the planet at war? Was this a perpetual war that prevented anything else from happening other than the existence of this war? No, Archaeology and Paleontology started coming to the fore in this period through the means of people who weren't taking part in a war, like most of the people on the planet.



[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Even is you don't believe in God he is with you. Why would dinosaurs roam the Earth? To eat Adam and Eve? lol.[/COLOR][/quote]

Why would lions, tigers and bears roam the earth? Why would crocodiles or alligators, whales, sharks and elephants? Why does anything exist, you're the font of all theological knowledge, you work it out.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']This statement only comes from watching Futurama. Don't you remember the people who died in the Columbia Space Shuttle Crash? The government doesn't pay Nasa billions of dollars for the sake of fake Hollywood moon landing. Unlike "theorists," astronauts are dead real. [/COLOR][/quote]

And who pays billions of dollars for this so called 'dinosaur conspiracy'? What possible benefit could there be from spending billions of dollars/pounds/franks/marks in upholding something which is a hoax? It wouldn't be justified, I mean the government barely has any interest as it is so its certaintly not them and who else has the money or the means to create such an elaborate hoax?

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']How can the Bible have inacurrate information when it's the word of God? God is the only perfect being. Genesis is the most important chapter of the Bible so how can mere humans disprove it throughout history? #1 sold book around the world is the Holy Bible. Every year it still sells millions. Not only that the Holy Bible has reached billions of people. Go to a church and ask if dinosaurs exist, they'll simply tell you No.[/COLOR][/quote]

God didn't write the bible, humans wrote the bible. Its a secondary source and secondary sources always have flaws. Prehaps the word of God is infallible but the word of God interpreted through the words of man is not. Facts get mixed up, stories get changed over time, pieces get omitted or re-written to suit the Pope/monarch/leader of the time. If you've read the King James version twice (which by the way is absolutely nothing) then you have only read the version King James wanted people to read. The bible is not the be all and end all of religious theory practice and belief.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]Science only helps when it comes to space travel or some sort of tricky machinery, or simply how our body systems function. If you believe in dinosaurs then how were they created if you don't believe in God? Do you think "science," gave humans and animals hearts, brains, skeletal system, nerves, emotions? That is highly unlikely. There is no sort of evidence in the world that makes science the answer to life. To me, it's impossible for this science to give dinosaurs teeth and claws if you believe they existed. Theories about dinosaurs & the Earth are nothing but then the human imagination. Just because Jurrasic Park showed dinosaurs does't mean the bones in the museum are actually dinosaur bones.[/color'] [/quote]

Okay, are you regarding science as a single entity? Science is not another being to rival God, it is a process of understanding that was there long before humans ever existed. There are many different aspects to science that span far beyong space travel or 'tricky machinery'. Science permiates every aspect of our life, from our food to the clothes we wear. Dinosaurs would have been created through the chain of evolution, which you probably deny exists either. From a tiny single celled organism dinosaurs and other life would have evolved to suit their surroundings and their climate. This would have occured over billions of years of adaption through genetic mutations, breeding and survival. Humans are simply a blip on the life if this planet. We have been around for what 3000, 4000 years? Our planet has lived and will lived far longer than we shall continue to exist on this planet. We are simply the dominant species of this moment in time, much like the dinosaurs were in theirs.

[quote name='Otaku America][color=navy']Why don't they teach you about dinosaurs in College? [/COLOR][/quote] They would, if you chose to study it yourself.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']he only heads that are in the sand are those palentologists. There is a difference between reading the Bible & knowing the Bible.I know the Bible first-hand [/quote][/color] Did you write it like? I'm afraid there are people far more knowledgable than you in such matters my friend. [quote][COLOR=NAVY] and I know the real science, the medical science. Frankly that is the only science that matters in human life. Sure humans have created plenty of things that are useful in our everyday lives thanks to science, but humans can't lay a factual theory on how old the Earth was or fill our minds with BS, that Dinosaurs were here for 65 million years and an asteriod made them all extinct globally.

BS theories like that belong in movies titled "science-fiction." Dinosaurs are as real as King Kong. Put two fictional creatures in a movie & you get a remake of a classic.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

And where is the factual evidence to support the idea that God created the world or of the flood or of anything like that? The bible? A book? If we said that 'this book tells us that the earth evolved and dinosaurs existed' you would tell us how the people who wrote the book were ill informed and that it was just a book, pointless info. For pity's sake, I could write a bible now and start preaching about it and who knows in a thousand years time people could believe my ideas of creation above all others.

There are many creation stories, because that is all they are, stories. Stories that people tell one another because they have no proof as to the contrary.[/SIZE]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Raiyuu][font=Trebuchet MS] .:EDIT:.
Sage, please don't let your frustration get the better of you and degenerate into name-calling. I know science vs. religion debates can get extremely firey, so let's try and buck the trend by keeping this one civil.
[/font][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, Rai, but honestly I'm not even calling him names! I really think he really is stupid. As in retarded or something, I honestly don't know!

I now it's not polite to call someone stupid, but I can't help it if he is! He bases this crazy conspiracy to nothing even remotely reasonable or sane. Added to that, he really believes he is right about it, which makes him even more ignorant and self-centered.

But you're right that I'm frustrated, and I try to hold my tongue in the future... :/

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]It's good to know that during the 1700s the human race had the ability to manufacture giant skeletons with fake carbon dating. I mean, wow, we can't even do that now. [i]Our ancestors farkin' rawked[/i].[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[quote name='Aiyisha][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]It's good to know that during the 1700s the human race had the ability to manufacture giant skeletons with fake carbon dating. I mean, wow, we can't even do that now. [i]Our ancestors farkin' rawked[/i].[/FONT][/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]

Actually, from what I understood, Otaku America meant that the bones were manufactured just recently, and all those hunder-year-old photos and reports and all the excavation sites around the world are fake, part of a large conspiracy against the good, God-fearing people.

He really thinks he is some kind of prophet who has inside knowledge on his God's work, so who are we sinful lowlifes to disagree with him?

I say we all bow to our new prophet and guide to light, [B]Otaku America[/B]!

[Baron Samedi]

[QUOTE=Otaku America][COLOR=Navy]
]Sorry, one who uses childish namecalling is the fool themselves. You don't think 6 days isn't reasonable for God? lol. Where is your opinion on the matter of this subject? Blindness? That would be you, hence your useless post just for the sake of bashing.[/COLOR][/quote][size=1]Well, you completely missed what I was saying. You explicitly stated that "6 million era's" was impossible for God to make Earth. Yet you willingly accept 6 days? That was my point.

Are you a fool? Why yes, yes you are. I'm not [b]bashing[/b] you. When somebody refuses to believe what is real, and backs up their 'case' with what could pretty well much be termed an 'unreliable source', then yes, they are foolish. You seems to be saying that because the Bible fails to mention something, it cannot exist. Does the Bible anywhere explicitly state the existence of the dodo, or the thylacine? Yes....no? Could it possibly be because the [b]people[/b] who wrote the Bible had never heard of these creatures. Does it mention kangaroos? Starfish? I mean, sure they exist now. But, if instead of seeing them alive we only found carcasses or fossils, would their existence be any more doubtable? That seems to be what you're saying.

You cannot take the Bible at face value.

And you claim incredulity at the formation of fossils?

Some animals which are quickly buried after their death (by sinking in mud, being buried in a sand storm, etc.) over time, become covered by more and more sediment. The parts of the animals that don't rot (usually the harder parts like bones and teeth) are encased in the newly-formed sediment. After a long time, the chemicals in the buried animals' bodies undergo a series of changes. As the bone slowly decayed, water infused with minerals seeped into the bone and replaced the chemicals in the bone with rock-like minerals. The process of fossilization involves the dissolving and replacement of the original minerals in the object with other minerals (and/or permineralization, the filling up of spaces in fossils with minerals, and/or recrystallization in which a mineral crystal changes its form). This process results in a heavy, rock-like copy of the original object - a fossil. The fossil has the same shape as the original object, but is chemically more like a rock! Some of the original hydroxy-apatite (a major bone constituent) remains, although it is saturated with silica (rock).

There. Basic science lesson for you.[/size]

[Otaku America]

[COLOR=DarkRed]This is getting more exciting. [/COLOR]
[QUOTE]
And YOU do?! I'm sorry, but every single one of your so called arguments are either based on the Bible or sheer ignorance! I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a historical document, so there's no use trying to pound my head with it.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I'm sorry if my knowledge is too much to comprehend. [I]"Pound your head?"[/I][/COLOR]

[QUOTE]I see clearly that you're too young to understand that life isn't all black-and-white, but your attitude still saddens me.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I'm too young? I'm 20 years old and the point of this reply was surely out of anger?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]You truly are stupid, in the most basic meaning of the word. There is something called school, did you not go there? They should teach you these very simple and understandable things that are proven by people far smarter than you and me.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Did you actually check my profile before claiming "I never went to school?" Life isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Also for the record, I don't compare myself to other people(pride). I already know I'm 4.0 student so nothing you say will harm me.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Of course I'm not saying you should take everything for granted, but you fail to see that you ARE in fact taking everything IN THE BIBLE for granted. For that, you are a fool.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Navy]
Please elaborate how I take everything in the Bible for granted?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Oh, and the 1800's are a full century, there wasn't one big continuing war that every single human on the Earth participated going on! They had plenty of time to dig up bones, trust me. This is one of the things they teach you in the school.

You really should try it, you really should!
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Yes, I'm sure they taught you how to [B]spoke[/B].[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]'m sorry, Rai, but honestly I'm not even calling him names! I really think he really is stupid. As in retarded or something, I honestly don't know![/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Yes, I compared your post history to mine and you're the inferior one here. No pun intended of course.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]I now it's not polite to call someone stupid, but I can't help it if he is! He bases this crazy conspiracy to nothing even remotely reasonable or sane. Added to that, he really believes he is right about it, which makes him even more ignorant and self-centered.

But you're right that I'm frustrated, and I try to hold my tongue in the future.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]This is a debate what do you expect? Now, I think this topic is about me.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Actually, from what I understood, Otaku Anime meant that the bones were manufactured just recently, and all those hunder-year-old photos and reports and all the excavation sites around the world are fake, part of a large conspiracy against the good, God-fearing people.

He really thinks he is some kind of prophet who has inside knowledge on his God's work, so who are we sinful lowlifes to disagree with him?

I say we all bow to our new prophet and guide to light, Otaku America![/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]You're taking this overboard. I was born Christian, what do you expect? Everybody on here with the exception of a few people have actually read the Bible, yet none of you have read through it all. Do yourself a favor and join a sermon. Your harsh retailations aren't going to do you any favor in this debate.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Oh man...

I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect, because I live in Finland, where the people do NOT speak English.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Then what is the point of telling me to go to school? When I can speak, write, & understand 4 different languages: English, Spanish, German, Japanese?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]You don't even realize that you're taking everything in the Bible for face value? "No, God created the world in six days because it says days, not millions of years!" was the clearest example. The fact that you don't believe in dinosaurs because they don't tell about them in the Bible is another blatant evidence.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Sorry, the like I stated previously, God is eternal and thousands of years could have been yesterday, quoting Moses. The Holy Bible already explained into great detailed that days = 24 hours. During the flooding, do you actually think that it took 150 million years to flood the Earth? Moses would have been over 150 million years old, Sorry, my point is [B]VALID.[/B][/COLOR]

[QUOTE]I'm sorry for calling you uneducated, but you're denying things that a third-grader knows to be true! But unfortunately you're too arrogant, pompous, and way too full of yourself for me to try to reason with you.

Despite you being only one year younger than me, all I can say is "grow up!"[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I don't deny false things with simple facts that have been here since the dawn of creation. I can't even reply to other posts because you post every minute.[/COLOR]

[Sandy]

Oh man...

I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect, because I live in Finland, where the people do NOT speak English.

You don't even realize that you're taking everything in the Bible for face value? "No, God created the world in six days because it says days, not millions of years!" was the clearest example. The fact that you don't believe in dinosaurs because they don't tell about them in the Bible is another blatant evidence.

I'm sorry for calling you uneducated, but you're denying things that a third-grader knows to be true! But unfortunately you're too arrogant, pompous, and way too full of yourself for me to try to reason with you.

Despite you being only one year younger than me, all I can say is "grow up!"

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE]

How do you know that Sage doesn't possess the knowledge, for all you know he could [i]be[/i] a paleontologist. Also, in the 1800s we were at war, were we all at war? Was every single human on the planet at war? Was this a perpetual war that prevented anything else from happening other than the existence of this war? No, Archaeology and Paleontology started coming to the fore in this period through the means of people who weren't taking part in a war, like most of the people on the planet.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]With the budget back then, how were fossils supported? Yes, not everyone was at war but I imagine these so-called archaelogical sites were during the war.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
Why would lions, tigers and bears roam the earth? Why would crocodiles or alligators, whales, sharks and elephants? Why does anything exist, you're the font of all theological knowledge, you work it out.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I'm already ahead of you. God created those animals on the same day he created Adam & Eve. As you know, Eve was created from Adam's kidney and thus the word woman was born, hence she came from a man. Animals exist today because they were on Noah's Ark.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]And who pays billions of dollars for this so called 'dinosaur conspiracy'? What possible benefit could there be from spending billions of dollars/pounds/franks/marks in upholding something which is a hoax? It wouldn't be justified, I mean the government barely has any interest as it is so its certaintly not them and who else has the money or the means to create such an elaborate hoax?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I don't recall any politicians supporting dinosaurs. Same thing can be said about fraud companies, who supports them and why aren't they out of business yet? There was an alien consipracy that would make dinosaurs look like ants under a magnifying glass. Explain how dinosaur fossils exist?
[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]God didn't write the bible, humans wrote the bible. Its a secondary source and secondary sources always have flaws. Prehaps the word of God is infallible but the word of God interpreted through the words of man is not. Facts get mixed up, stories get changed over time, pieces get omitted or re-written to suit the Pope/monarch/leader of the time. If you've read the King James version twice (which by the way is absolutely nothing) then you have only read the version King James wanted people to read. The bible is not the be all and end all of religious theory practice and belief.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Sorry, your post is the only thing that means absolutely nothing. Why don't any of you answer the questions about dinosaurs? lol. The Kings James Version is the ORIGINAL VERSION. There is no Bible conspiracy when it comes to the KJV. Yes the Bible is the be all end all of religous beliefs. Why are there hundreds of thousands of churches out there? All recite to their own version of the Holy Bible.[/COLOR]


[QUOTE]Okay, are you regarding science as a single entity? Science is not another being to rival God, it is a process of understanding that was there long before humans ever existed. There are many different aspects to science that span far beyong space travel or 'tricky machinery'. Science permiates every aspect of our life, from our food to the clothes we wear. Dinosaurs would have been created through the chain of evolution, which you probably deny exists either. From a tiny single celled organism dinosaurs and other life would have evolved to suit their surroundings and their climate. This would have occured over billions of years of adaption through genetic mutations, breeding and survival. Humans are simply a blip on the life if this planet. We have been around for what 3000, 4000 years? Our planet has lived and will lived far longer than we shall continue to exist on this planet. We are simply the dominant species of this moment in time, much like the dinosaurs were in theirs. [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]This Earth is under 10,000 years old according to the Bible. How can dinosaurs take up 65 million years of time? Who is the longest living man in the Bible "Methuselah" BS! I debunked your horribly wrong theory.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE] Did you write it like? I'm afraid there are people far more knowledgable than you in such matters my friend. [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Thanks for taking apart my sentence. You basically didn't even quote it all, lol.[/COLOR]

[quote]And where is the factual evidence to support the idea that God created the world or of the flood or of anything like that? The bible? A book? If we said that 'this book tells us that the earth evolved and dinosaurs existed' you would tell us how the people who wrote the book were ill informed and that it was just a book, pointless info. For pity's sake, I could write a bible now and start preaching about it and who knows in a thousand years time people could believe my ideas of creation above all others.

There are many creation stories, because that is all they are, stories. Stories that people tell one another because they have no proof as to the contrary.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]You're confusing fairy tales with actual fiction. Everything in the Bible has happened besides the Revelation of Christ. How can you say a "mere" man wrote the Bible? When infact it was Christ's followers who translated the scrolls? Sorry, you're not intelligent enough to even write a short story. Dinosaurs never evolved. Think about it, do you think the Earth created itself?. Humans were created from dirt from God's own imagination. Explain in science terms how come we speak different languages?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]And with that statement you just lost all credibility as the Bible expert you seem to be claiming to be. Pride is not only a sin. It's one of the seven deadly sins. In fact it's widely accepted as the most heinous of all seven (the others, since you probably don't know those either, are lust, covetousness, gluttony, envy, wrath and sloth).[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Actually, if you looked back that was a typo. I already explained this and one more thing you should know is that there [B]IS NO FORMAL LIST OF THE 7 DEADLY SINS IN THE BIBLE.[/B] All this talk about the 7 sins came from human talk which inspired the movie se7vn. I guarantee you 100% that you won't find a formal list in the bible which clearly states the 7 deadly sins. I never lost credibility to begin with.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]Like Revue said, what would be the point of creating a massive conspiracy to make people believe dinosaurs existed when they didn't? You, personally, don't believe in them, so you've assumed it's a conspiracy. But what would be the point? It would be a colossal waste of time, money and effort.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]A lot of stuff goes behind government doors that not even the highest ranking official in the government would know. The fact is, the government can simply make money just for the sake of making money. We don't know what's happening behind closed doors so anything can happen. If we can create life now, duplicating fossil stones in the theorized 1800's is simple as building a castle in 700 BC.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]All humans have the exact same bone structure, are we a hoax too? I really don't see what point you're trying to make there. Also, it's possible for some people to conduct archaeology while others have wars. Not everyone has to do the same thing at the same time.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Yes, but the so-called dinosaur bones in the museum are all the same size from head to toe. Humans come in sizes than why do dinosaurs from my experiences in museums have the same exact size? People fail to realize back then, Ferrari's were never possible making bones is as simple as making styrofoam. How on Earth did humans create the Tower of Babylon? If towers that big were made back then, making bones is simply nothing in the theorized 1800's.[/COLOR]

[url]http://www.crystalinks.com/babylonian.html[/url]


[QUOTE]No, the fact that the bones are in the museum and are proven to have belonged to real living creatures in the world's distant past means the bones in the museum are dinosaur bones. We don't base our science off Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park based its premise off science.

They do if you read Archaeology, Paleontology or Prehistory.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Yes, I know we didn't base our sceince off of JP. If you believe dinosaurs are so real, go to a museum and pay them a few thousand bucks just to drill a hole inside the bone. I won't be suprised if you found clay that was used to hold houses in the old days. Bones simply cannot be preserved for a insanely long period of time. Mummies are fortified, dinosaurs are not. You'd be lucky if you get to see an actual mummy in your museum, yet dinosaurs are a plenty.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]It's good to know that during the 1700s the human race had the ability to manufacture giant skeletons with fake carbon dating. I mean, wow, we can't even do that now. Our ancestors farkin' rawked.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]You need to brush up on your history because advance armor was created back in the B.C. years.[/COLOR]