Not Being Yourself? (maybe even to be good?)

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=teal]Lately, my friends have been acting strange. Their modes of discussion are clearly manipulative, getting you to talk or think they care. It's so fake, and I don't like playing mind games, especially with casual friends. Even if they are pretending, they are behaving as better individuals. I don't know how to explain it any better. They probably do whatever it is too poorly/obviously for it to be represented properly.

Anyway, I soon learned that they are both reading a book called [i]How to Win Friends and Influence People[/i]. Now, don't get me wrong, it sounds great, but if my friends are any indication, it's a false garb you wear, and you have to wear it quite well or else it shows that you don't care and/or are just being manipulative.

Anyone else hear of this book? What do you think of the idea of learning to go against your own nature and pretending to care?

I'd rather have a person genuinely be a dick and say they don't care than try to win me over or influence me by falsities. Don't get me wrong, if you are a bad person and ill-willed, then certainly, changing yourself is great. But pretending to change is worse than being yourself any time of the day. While I don't know anything about the teachings in the book, it's disgusting to think that there are books that promote that kind of trade.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]Sometimes it's common courtesy to pretend you care about something you genuinely don't. I'm sure you understand that. But you may be talking about something a bit different...

I'd be straight with your friends and tell them you're getting tired of their falseness, and that you see right through it. I think they need a wake up call like that.[/SIZE]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I have to agree with Alex, there are times when you have to express interest in a subject you have absolutely no interest in, it's simple courtesy. However what you're talking about Azure is quite different, as you said this is about people going against their normal nature in a vain attempt to win favour and popularity. Personally I think people should stick to their true nature, though if pretending to be something you're not brings you some measure of happiness and doesn't cause misery to anyone else, well I guess there's not really anything wrong with it. [/SIZE]

[Maully]

[COLOR=SeaGreen]I actually have a copy of this book. It was given to me as a gag gift. At the time I had lots of friends and influence, you see. I have never even open the book.

It may be curtious to pretend to have interest in somethiing sometimes. However to be completely false about your interest or intentions all or even most of the time should not be a goal for anyone in my opinion.[/COLOR]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I don't think that it's necessarily all bad. Think from your friends point of view: why would they want a book that 'teaches' them how to get more friends? There is an obvious answer to that one. Some people don't naturally possess social confidence, and don't 'get' how to make friends easily. I'm sure that most of you have seen how some people can just walk into a room, and have friends five minutes later. You have it, or you work at it. And that's what your friends are doing. It's a shame that they are coming across as being false, but be patient with them. If it gets too much, have a quiet word to them about it. But above all, let them do it. And see where it goes.[/size]

[Doukeshi]

[SIZE=1]As has been said there is a happy medium between a genuine and a facade one puts forward in social situations. Everyone has a facade they wear most of the time, as I see it we only remove this facade when we are in intimate, personal situations such as at home with our family or with very close personal friends. Even with friends you think you know very well you are still displaying a persona you want them to see.

This, as with everything, has its advantages and disadvantages.

As it is, I have a friend who says what she wants when she wants whatever the consequences, or so it seems, and sometimes I think it would just be nice if she simply feigned interest in something just to be a friend. As one of my other friends notoriously said, she is forever 'pissing on people's bonfires'. Having said that, however, because she does not put forward a facade as such it is always easy to know when she is showing genuine feelings and this is why she is a dear friend.

Of course, people who are completely fake just aren't worth the effort. Why bother getting to know someone and being friends with them if you don't even know if they are friends with you. Its like talking to and actor as if they were the character they portray. Its a pointless exercise.

I hope that rambling made sense. [/SIZE]

[Dan L]

[quote name='Gavin][size=1']Personally I think people should stick to their true nature, though if pretending to be something you're not brings you some measure of happiness and doesn't cause misery to anyone else, well I guess there's not really anything wrong with it. [/size][/quote]
There's only one disagreement I have with that- and that's the whole nature of happiness and being yourself. I really believe that it's not really possible to obtain a worthwile measure of happiness through not being yourself- because no matter how good it may seem, deep down you know that this is not the way you really are.. True happiness and being other than yourself- I consider those two to be mutually exclusive. Sure, you could be [i]successful[/i]- but success (in the sense of money, friends, possessions, what have you) and happiness are different things. Not opposites to each other, but neither one is necessary for the other to be present.

However, people do have many, many different depths of self- I talk with my housemates about stuff that I wouldn't talk to my workmates about- and I talk to people I have met already differently to how I talk to people I meet for the first time. The key is to not see (or make) each of these layers as a different mask which we put on in each situation- but to recognise that we aren't going to talk to someone we've just met this second about the fact about our deepest secrets and insecurities, not because we're a different person, but because they don't know us deeply enough to need to know that.

On the other hand, showing people interest in order to manipulate them into being your friends when under normal circumstances they wouldn't-- that's nothing to do with depths or layers- it's just plain lying.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I am always arguing that people should be themselves and shouldn't be forced to be any other way. As has been said, that is surely a cornerstone to happiness; being able to remain true to your inner self as much as possible.

As far as acting around other goes, I tend to believe that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle - and that relates to behavior too. No, you shouldn't compromise yourself too much for others to the point where you are unhappy. But yes, you should respect others - and sometimes that means saying nothing if you have nothing positive to say. So it really has to be a combination of both, I think.

If someone disagrees with me on something, I'd obviously rather that they are polite and respectful, rather than just being blunt and rude. That's just courtesy; it doesn't mean that they are in any way compromising their actual opinion or beliefs. It just means that they are respecting me enough to disagree in a polite manner. That's the only area in which I can imagine it's worth having some restraint. But again, that doesn't mean one has to be something other than themselves or compromise themselves at the core.[/font]

[MommySkullFish]

I definitely have to agree with the "sometimes it's better to be polite" statement. However, I understand where someone being obviously fake would be off-putting. If you know they don't really give a rat's arse about what you're talking about, or you in general, it would be better for them to say politely that they don't have and interest.

It's frustrating to be on the receiving end of a load of crap and have to pretend that you don't know they're pretending. Trust me, I have to do this all the time. Namely with my ex husband, when he wants something from me, and he's being very nice, but then when I want something from him, he'll huff and puff like crazy (so to speak).

But anyway - Just saying I get what you mean.

I'm also a big advocate for being yourself, personally, and frankly, I don't have many friends because I'm myself all the time. That doesn't mean I go insulting people at work, but if they want to start a conversation with me about something I'm passionate about, I'm not going to pretend I'm not passionate about it just to win their favor.

[Latharix_sama]

I see what you're saying. But all I have is sympathy, no empathy. My friends have never, or ever, faked change. Why? My friends are perfect the way they are, and they know that. In fact, they don't have to change or pretend to change for me, because I'm probably the one who needs the most work. :animesigh
Just tell your friends straight up that you don't like it. They'll listen. And if they don't...then you have a BAD problem if they don't care about how you feel.
Really, If you have friends, people, then that means you must already be good enough. Why change? Or especially, pretend to change?

[Pumpkin]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1]There are always going to be fake people in this world that are going to judge you by your looks, what you wear, who you know, and even where your from. This reminds me a bit of highschool where popularity is considered everything. It also reminds me of a girl I use to know. She tried to gain popularity by telling lies, and being fake to everyone who met her, they knew her "interests", her age, and what she looked like. But they did not know anything about her life or what she was really like. She is stuck in an image that is not her.

The only thing that "image" can do for you, is make you misserable. People like you for the wrong reasons, and it's tiring to keep it up. Also, it's a false sense of happiness that reals most people in, when in reality, those people are not actually your friends. They don't even know you. I think it's better to be yourself and find real happiness then to live behind a lie. I've just started college recently, and there are people there that will only hang out with you because of your looks and that's pretty sad. But it's those people that arn't worth your time. You have to come to the conclusion that not everyone's going to like you, and even if they dont, who cares? You should find people who you actually care about and WANT to spend your time with. Being fake will not get you that, and I think you should explain that to your friends because being a fake person is just a waste of time. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I pretend to care sometimes, because I don't want to just stop them and say "I don't care about your problems, go talk about it to someone else." This mostly applies to minor problems like 'My mom got mad at me because blah blah blah' or something, because I really don't care. I don't feel the need to care over every single problem that my friends encounter.

Actually, I have been blunt about the subject with my very close friends. Overall, my group of friends are all blunt. If we don't care, we will actually tell each other. I only do the pretending thing with casual friends (being that the problem is minimal. I WOULD care very much if one of my friends was going through some major obstacle in their life).

About the book. Um. If you're going to waste your life making a bunch of friends you don't care about, go ahead. It is pointless, as you're only harming yourself. The point of a friend is that you can truly be yourself around them. As for the 'winning people over'...that's an entirely different thing. I do it all the time to teachers and directors at my school, because it only raises my reputation and will later on help me during the rest of my high school. Yeah, it sucks, but sometimes you have to learn how to suck up to the right people.[/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=FireBrick][SIZE=1]^ Too right.

Gotta learn how to win over people to get somewhere nice. And no, it's nothing like faking who you are or acting differently. To win people over, you gotta find the persona that jives with thetarget and develop it. [i]That's[/i] how you win people over.

I've a friend who used to recite to me 50-stanza poems during lunch break. I feigned interest at the start; didn't want to put him down or anything cause he seems to be really into it. The act seemed to work 'cause he kept memorizing these poems and recitin gthem to me. Day after day, I listened to him. After a month or so, I found myself browsing for longish poems, something that I haven't done or thought of doing before. Somehow, by feigning interest, I was able to subconsciously "broaden my horizons" and get a new bosom buddy to boot!

That's how you develop a complementary persona. [b]Faking <<< Spending time on a relationship.[/b]
(Man, I'm starting to sound like a self-help book!)[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Kamuro]

[SIZE=1]Maybe I should get this book for the people I know, they act fake anyhow, so at least they'd be able to do it right.

In this time of life (High School for me) people are very reckless and do things without considering the consequences and the people they'll hurt in the process. It's all about them, pleasing themselves and getting what they want. Girls seem to do it more then guys, from my own experience. Guys can be pretty harsh too, but girls are very callous and when it comes to a boyfriend or a guy they're interested in, things can get really bad.

A lot of younger people are fake simply because they want to fit in. High School is all about being accepted. Everyone wants to be a part of something, they want to feel loved and needed, but it so often isn't the case. Someone you think you know can simply be a front designed for you to like, rather then the actual person. And when things become personal, the real person shines through and it isn't always pretty.

All I can say is stay true to yourself. Even if everyone around you is fake, at the end of the day you'll be able to sleep and have pride in the fact that although you're not perfect, you don't have to be. You are your own person, and instead of changing to 'fit in' you take pride in the fact that you don't. And truly, none of us do.[/SIZE]