Debate: Minor 'till 18

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Attimus331]Kuroshin, i'm simply asking that you go back and reread what you wrote so that you can make the understanding of your post more coherent. Is that a bad thing to ask? I mean i serisouly did not understand what you said the last time! I'm not trying to be mean. I reread my post to correct typos and whatnot, you should too.

Sure there is a "cool factor" involved, but it's only for those couple of stupid teenagers that care about being "cool". If drinking were made legal at an eariler age then that age group would have a lot more drinkers. I'm sure of this. Sure, there might be less of a cool factor, but can you really imagine drinking not being consdered cool??? I mean look at all the money put into advertisements by the beer companies. Remember the Budweiser frogs? Or the twins campaign? If it were made legal in would only be slightly less cool.

Yes, i realize there is not nearly as much hype in Europe about drinking. It's a change in culture and the views of drinking by society. If America could somehow manage to adopt these views i wouldn't agree with the drinking restrictions, but that's not the case, and in all honesty i doubt it would be easy to accomplish...

The pot thing was a valid point, don't tell me it wasn't. I was replying to what Ilium said about the cool factor. I was giving an example. Pot would become more popular if made legal, regardless of the cool factor. It's even a better point than beer! Pot isn't addictive like alcohol is. Since you don't have to look at addiction in the situation of pot the cool factor apparantly doesn't have a very big influence, legality does.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Canada see's the exact same adds. The same culture is superimposed on Canada. We have restrictions lifted at 18. We still have one of the lowest percentage of alchol abuse in the developed world. The 18-year-old voters make the better decision, mostly, and the country is just more stable in general. As I said, even if the 18-year-old thing looks bad on paper, it [I]does[/I] work.[/COLOR]

[Attimus331]

I didn't know you lived in America...

[Lafleur]

[quote name='Attimus331']I didn't know you lived in America...[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
I don't... But I've been there. Besides, a country that elects Bush twice must be doing somthing wrong with it's younger generation/[/COLOR]

[Sandy]

You couldn't get a debate over the age of becoming an adult, so you start a debate over [I]anything?[/I] This thread is going [I]majorly[/I] off-topic, you know? ;P

I'd like to add to the discussion that in Finland people become full-aged at eighteen, but to many of the teenagers even [I]it[/I] seems too old. People get drunk here for the first time at the mature age of 15, losing virginity happens at that time as well, smoking is often started in the 6th grade, sixteen or seventeen years old get into car accidents where they were the driver etc.

My point is that whatever the "legal" age of becoming adult is, many teenagers do all those "adult" stuff long time before that.

[Lafleur]

[quote name='Sage]You couldn't get a debate over the age of becoming an adult, so you start a debate over anything? This thread is going [I]majorly[/I'] off-topic, you know? ;P[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Meh. Whatever's fun.[/COLOR]

[Stuart]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS]These last few posts are irrelevant, and consist of only one or two sentences. This is a warning. Please remain on the topic at hand, and increase your posting quality for this thread. This is directed towards Attimus331, and Ilium, but it goes for everyone else.[/FONT]

[Kuroshin13]

[QUOTE]Kuroshin, i'm simply asking that you go back and reread what you wrote so that you can make the understanding of your post more coherent. Is that a bad thing to ask? I mean i serisouly did not understand what you said the last time! I'm not trying to be mean. I reread my post to correct typos and whatnot, you should too. [/QUOTE] 1) I DO look over my posts, but I can't keep correcting every little thing. I never said you were trying to be mean. Did you read through CAREFULLY and try to pick out what I was TRYING to say? All I'M asking, is that you be a little more specific with what I need to make clearer.

[QUOTE]If drinking were made legal at an eariler age then that age group would have a lot more drinkers. I'm sure of this. Sure, there might be less of a cool factor, but can you really imagine drinking not being consdered cool??? [/QUOTE] 2) I never implied that. Are you forgetting the whole purpose of this??? I only ment that it would be LESS COOL, not that it would be a dramatic thing. I DO AGREE WITH THE AGE 21 DRINKING RESTRICTIONS.

[QUOTE]The pot thing was a valid point, don't tell me it wasn't. I was replying to what Ilium said about the cool factor. I was giving an example. Pot would become more popular if made legal, regardless of the cool factor. It's even a better point than beer! Pot isn't addictive like alcohol is. Since you don't have to look at addiction in the situation of pot the cool factor apparantly doesn't have a very big influence, legality does.[/QUOTE] 3) You failed to get my point. Your debate is about being and adult at 18, not whether we should be aloud to drink at 18. As an example against Illiums point, maybe. [COLOR=orange]But there is no question of maturity concerning pot.[/COLOR]
"If" it was legal, doesn't say anything regarding MATURITY and BEING AN ADULT. How can I make that any clearer?

[QUOTE]You couldn't get a debate over the age of becoming an adult, so you start a debate over anything? This thread is going majorly off-topic, you know? ;P[/QUOTE] 4) She's right. Plain and simple. Am I going to have to keep defending myself because nobody can get it through their thick skulls?

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
I don't... But I've been there. Besides, a country that elects Bush twice must be doing somthing wrong with it's younger generation/[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Let's all move to the magical land of Canada where nothing ever goes wrong and it just so f'ing awesome!!!

Also the younger generation never votes, so it doesn't matter what the youngins think.


I somewhat thought that the age for adult had to do with that being around the time when most people stop growing.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Harry]Let's all move to the magical land of Canada where nothing ever goes wrong and it just so f'ing awesome!!!

Also the younger generation never votes, so it doesn't matter what the youngins think.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
I never said it was f'ing awesome. I meant that we've never elected a Conservative twice in a row; must be doing somthing right.

And yes, the number of younger generation voters is increasing every year.[/COLOR]

[JJ]

The 21 drinking law is actually kind of stupid. If you can take away a portion of your life at 18, what's wrong with a couple of drinks while you're doing it? I mean, here in Germany, you can start drinking by yourself at 16, and you don't see a bunch of stories about drunk kids straggling around, like you do in the States.

But to restate what everyone else said, there really is no set age for being an adult. It's all in your maturity.

All in all, I really think that we shouldn't call gettting 18 adulthood, instead, just, growing up. :p

That's what it is, right? But yeah, the draft is another thing. It's like, the government can put your life at risk to acomplish whatever they want to, but you can't put yourself in that position when you drink.

All in all, the 18 rule is useless. I mean, if you can't drink at 18, what's the point of anything else? :P Voting, pah, who does it now a days? Smoking, the death stick, no way!

I just wanted to end my post with a quote, said well.

[quote name='Retribution']So if you lift the restrictions (Europe) and place them at a younger age, then the hype of getting drunk is gone, and no one will do it.[/quote]

That's what makes Germany interesting. I really think it's all about the trust a country can put on it's kids. I mean, just yeah. They give the kids to opportunity to choose a life career at 15/16. Of course, the school would be preparing you to take on an apprenticeship, but yeah, I only see those types going through high school or dropping out of High School in the USA.

But that's for another topic.. >.>

[Attimus331]

[QUOTE=Kuroshin13]1) I DO look over my posts, but I can't keep correcting every little thing. I never said you were trying to be mean. Did you read through CAREFULLY and try to pick out what I was TRYING to say? All I'M asking, is that you be a little more specific with what I need to make clearer.

2) I never implied that. Are you forgetting the whole purpose of this??? I only ment that it would be LESS COOL, not that it would be a dramatic thing. I DO AGREE WITH THE AGE 21 DRINKING RESTRICTIONS.

3) You failed to get my point. Your debate is about being and adult at 18, not whether we should be aloud to drink at 18. As an example against Illiums point, maybe. [COLOR=orange]But there is no question of maturity concerning pot.[/COLOR]
"If" it was legal, doesn't say anything regarding MATURITY and BEING AN ADULT. How can I make that any clearer?

4) She's right. Plain and simple. Am I going to have to keep defending myself because nobody can get it through their thick skulls?[/QUOTE]

Oh, you DO look over your posts? Wow, i guess you can't read then. I reread your posts a couple of times trying to decipher the meaning, but couldn't. That was before i posted that i couldn't read your post. Ok, i'll be more specific. And i'll use the number thing like you did, cuz it's coooool, ahaha.

1. Oh, and if the technical adult age would be 18, you can't always in every respect all them a kid. - ???

2. That also doesn't mean that all of us teenagers that do drink illegally just go with a buch of friends to go get stoned at 10 a clock at night. That my friend, would be pointless -.-* Along with your regulars who don't give a rats *ss and go get stoned or something, there ARE and would be responible underage drinkers, just like you have very irrisponsible adults who love nothing better but to go drink with of buddies. - That paragraph has way too many mistakes and is poorly written.

3. The facts are, no matter which age you choose and which restrictions you apply, you are going to get both sides of the fence. And there is no certain, 100% proof way to dertimine the 'lesser of two evils'. - facts? I see no facts. What fence? what does "100% proof" mean? What evils?

4. hm...Maybe we need some talk about voting rights...like weather people are more suited to make an important decision about the government at 18 or 21. - weather? Is it storming over there or something?

5. you only ment?

6. Your debate is about being and adult at 18 - and?

Don't try and set restrictions for this topic. It's pointless and rude. You're not a moderator and you didn't start this post, but guess what! I did... It's about being a minor till 18 and anything regarding it. Restrictions at 18 do apply. All of this stuff is relovent. What's irrelovent is people complaining about us being irrelovent. So stop it.

Personally it makes me angry when people don't vote. If you don't vote then you have no right to say anything regarding politics, you're not allowed to have an opinion. Oh, so you don't like Bush? Did you vote? ...oh, you didn't? Then stop bit***ng! If you can vote, you should vote, unless you're a moron. I think 18 is a good age for voting, because you can have opinions, and the ones that don't have opinions don't vote, so it all works out.

If pot were legal it wouldn't lose its cool factor, neither would beer lose its cool factor to teenagers if they could drink at 18 instead of 21. That is the point. It does question maturity because 18 year olds are concerned with the "cool factor" (damn i'm tired of saying that...cool factor, it sounds so dumb) because they're immature.

[Kuroshin13]

Sorry. I use different expressions when I talk, and pardon my lack of editing skills. Just because I re-read something, does not mean that I can fix everything. I WAS NOT TAUGHT THESE THINGS. Please stop harping. I'm trying, I really am. I resent what you said.

:animesigh I WASN'T trying to set restrictions, but from you were implying in your first post, I going with [I]the impression I was given[/I]. I'm not the only one who thought things were getting off the origonal topic. :animeangr Go verbally attack them.

[QUOTE]"3. The facts are, no matter which age you choose and which restrictions you apply, you are going to get both sides of the fence. And there is no certain, 100% proof way to dertimine the 'lesser of two evils'. - facts? I see no facts. What fence? what does "100% proof" mean? What evils?"[/QUOTE] Facts are/both sides of the fence.= It has been proven on multiple occations that it's not going to be one group alone you are dealing with there are always two or more sides. Nothing is going to be comepletly unanimous.
100% proof=bad expression, I admit it. there is no sure way to tell what will happen.
'lesser of two evils'=Expression used like saying, 'what's worst.'

Again, PLEASE STOP HARPING ON ALL OF MY MISTAKES.

This is no longer a debate, but an all out fight in MY oppinion, which I'm entitled to. I'm out, good luck with your debate.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]
1. Oh, and if the technical adult age would be 18, you can't always in every respect all them a kid. - ???[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
If the technical age for an adult is 18, you can't really call them a kid. -- Don't really agree, but this is what it meant -_-[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
2. That also doesn't mean that all of us teenagers that do drink illegally just go with a buch of friends to go get stoned at 10 a clock at night. That my friend, would be pointless -.-* Along with your regulars who don't give a rats *ss and go get stoned or something, there ARE and would be responible underage drinkers, just like you have very irrisponsible adults who love nothing better but to go drink with of buddies. - That paragraph has way too many mistakes and is poorly written.[/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]

That doesn't mean that all of us teenagers that DO drink illegally just go out with a bunch of friends to go get stoned at 10 o'clock at night. That, my friend, would be POINTLESS. Along with your regulars, who don't give a rats *** about anything, there ARE some responsible underage drinkers, just as you have very irrisponsible adults who love nothing better than to go out drinking with the boys.-- Happy now?
[/COLOR]
[QUOTE]
3. The facts are, no matter which age you choose and which restrictions you apply, you are going to get both sides of the fence. And there is no certain, 100% proof way to dertimine the 'lesser of two evils'. - facts? I see no facts. What fence? what does "100% proof" mean? What evils?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
The truth is that no matter whitch age you choose to lift restrictions, you are going to get the bad and the good. There is no way to be 100% certain of the lesser of two evils. -- Make sense now? [/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
4. hm...Maybe we need some talk about voting rights...like weather people are more suited to make an important decision about the government at 18 or 21. - weather? Is it storming over there or something?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Now your just being a nitpicker.
[/COLOR]
[QUOTE]
If pot were legal it wouldn't lose its cool factor, neither would beer lose its cool factor to teenagers if they could drink at 18 instead of 21. That is the point. It does question maturity because 18 year olds are concerned with the "cool factor" (damn i'm tired of saying that...cool factor, it sounds so dumb) because they're immature.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Your wrong in one respect. Pot, in it self, is NOT a bad thing. Being a cigg smoker is MUCH worse than being a pothead in most respects but one. The fact that Pot is illegal forces orginised crime to have massive grow-ops, which in turn causes people to have to become underground punk losers too get it. If everyone was allowed to own 10 pots plants legall you could virtually wipe out orginised crime, and than the cops could get back to busting real criminals. Making a plant that grows naturally in the Americas illegal is the only crime I see here.[/COLOR]

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
And yes, the number of younger generation voters is increasing every year.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Increasing from nothing to miniscule. And your nosense about how conservatives shouldn't be running a country is pretty stupid too.

[quote]Your wrong in one respect. Pot, in it self, is NOT a bad thing. Being a cigg smoker is MUCH worse than being a pothead in most respects but one. The fact that Pot is illegal forces orginised crime to have massive grow-ops, which in turn causes people to have to become underground punk losers too get it. If everyone was allowed to own 10 pots plants legall you could virtually wipe out orginised crime, and than the cops could get back to busting real criminals. Making a plant that grows naturally in the Americas illegal is the only crime I see here.[/quote]
Is this some kind of joke? Organized crime doesn't do weed, they do things that are much more profitable such as cocaine, heroin, and other things. I think weed should be legalized, but I don't kid myself into thinking they grow it in Columbia.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Harry]Increasing from nothing to miniscule. And your nosense about how conservatives shouldn't be running a country is pretty stupid too.


Is this some kind of joke? Organized crime doesn't do weed, they do things that are much more profitable such as cocaine, heroin, and other things. I think weed should be legalized, but I don't kid myself into thinking they grow it in Columbia.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Well, they grow in A Columbia *Wink*

No, it's not a joke. Orginised Crime makes 50% of it's profits from Weed, at least in my part of the world. If you made it legal than they couldn't sell it anymore; who needs the underground when you've got 10 plants sitting around at home?

Oh, and how is my anti-Conservatisim nonsense? I'm firmly againts Conservatism. Everytime a con gets elected in my country we get bitten in the balls. It's no wonder I harbour hard feelings for them. Can you say Avro Arrow?[/COLOR]

[Attimus331]

[QUOTE=Kuroshin13]Sorry. I use different expressions when I talk, and pardon my lack of editing skills. Just because I re-read something, does not mean that I can fix everything. I WAS NOT TAUGHT THESE THINGS. Please stop harping. I'm trying, I really am. I resent what you said.

:animesigh I WASN'T trying to set restrictions, but from you were implying in your first post, I going with [I]the impression I was given[/I]. I'm not the only one who thought things were getting off the origonal topic. :animeangr Go verbally attack them.

Facts are/both sides of the fence.= It has been proven on multiple occations that it's not going to be one group alone you are dealing with there are always two or more sides. Nothing is going to be comepletly unanimous.
100% proof=bad expression, I admit it. there is no sure way to tell what will happen.
'lesser of two evils'=Expression used like saying, 'what's worst.'

Again, PLEASE STOP HARPING ON ALL OF MY MISTAKES.

This is no longer a debate, but an all out fight in MY oppinion, which I'm entitled to. I'm out, good luck with your debate.[/QUOTE]

Dude....it's alright to make some mistakes here and there. You just made more than a few. You need to fix most all of the mistakes. I don't think i've seen a post yet that was flawless by you, as far as grammar and typos go. You asked me to be specific, i was specific, now you don't want me to "harp" on your mistakes. You asked me to be specific! Make up your mind.

[Lafleur]

[quote name='Attimus331']Dude....it's alright to make some mistakes here and there. You just made more than a few. You need to fix most all of the mistakes. I don't think i've seen a post yet that was flawless by you, as far as grammar and typos go. You asked me to be specific, i was specific, now you don't want me to "harp" on your mistakes. You asked me to be specific! Make up your mind.[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Lay off, eh? Obviously it would seem English is not his/her first langauge, don't go mental on him/her because they don't speak the language perfect. Geez. I know lots of people who don't have the language down, doesn't mean that I go beat the crap out of them for it. The OB is a multi-national Website, and thus a multi-language one. At least he/she made a geniun effort to get the point across. Would you prefer that he/she write everything in French or Chinese or whatever his/her first language is?[/COLOR]

[Annie]

[size=1]
I think the point of Attimus's intentions with this discussion has blown far past relevance. Being minor until the age of 18 is not a big deal. Most of today's youth start progressing towards adulthood when they get their driver's liscense. That is a teen's first, and terribly important, responsibility. I find it reasonable to have the "21 to drink alcohol" policy due to the fact that if it were allowed for younger groups to drink, the toll of fatalities caused by drinking and driving would drastically climb; simply because a 16-year-old wouldn't have much experience behind the wheel as it were, then add toxins to that? Heh.

So, the restrictions are there for a reason. But does that make someone an adult? Not necessarily. The answer lies within, and it's been repeated and beaten, maturitiy.

And on an ending note:[/size]

[quote name='Stuart][FONT=Trebuchet MS']These last few posts are irrelevant, and consist of only one or two sentences. This is a warning. Please remain on the topic at hand, and increase your posting quality for this thread. This is directed towards Attimus331, and Ilium, but it goes for everyone else.[/FONT][/quote]

[size=1]<3 you, Stu-kun. 'nough said.[/size]

[Attimus331]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
Lay off, eh? Obviously it would seem English is not his/her first langauge, don't go mental on him/her because they don't speak the language perfect. Geez. I know lots of people who don't have the language down, doesn't mean that I go beat the crap out of them for it. The OB is a multi-national Website, and thus a multi-language one. At least he/she made a geniun effort to get the point across. Would you prefer that he/she write everything in French or Chinese or whatever his/her first language is?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I couldn't understand him. I don't have a problem with typos or other problems, but when i can't understand it, i'll say something. I'm not trying to be mean. And sure, if he wants to go it in his native tongue then more power to him, then i just won't read it or care.

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS]All of those involved, [b]cease the discussion of people's grammar right now, please.[/b] Mods exist to monitor people's post quality, so that the rest of you can ignore it and have a discussion. You've all been warned by Stuart to keep this thread on topic. This is your [b]final warning. [/b]Ilium, Attimus and Kuroshin, I'm looking at you. I'll delete off-topic posts on sight from now on, and if they continue, I'm closing the thread.
[/font]

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Attimus331]Oh....right....drinking binges aren't bad at all.....and neither are the drunk drivers, right? Sure, those things aren't going to be avoided, i'm not trying to say that. I'm simply saying that a, straight out of mom and dad's house, 18 year old is less responsible than a 21 year old that has had a little more experience.
[/QUOTE]

I hope you aren't serious, as I see absolutely nothing good about a drunk driver. It?s absolute stupidity and irresponsibility at it?s finest to be driving when you are drunk. I have already lost one family member to a drunk driver, and I don?t want to lose another.

I realize that some mature quicker than others do, but I?m all for the 21-year-old law and sometimes I think it should be even higher. Or perhaps the penalty for driving drunk should be more severe. After all the idiot who killed my brother is still out behind the wheel, and who knows when he will kill again by being irresponsible.

18 years may be the standard in other countries or even some of the states, but I seriously don't think it's old enough for someone to be considered an adult.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]In Australia we're allowed to drink at 18. In the UK, and I think Germany, last I checked it was 16. In all those countries age of majority still starts at 18, and I think America must be one of the only countries that makes [i]legal adults[/i] wait three years before they can legally pick up a beer.

It mystifies me, it's like America gives its citizens absolutely no credit. I mean seriously, lol, why make them wait three years to drink when you've already handed them their driver's license, a gun, and a cigarette?

'Take a puff son, and don't feel shy about drag racing on the highway, but don't you dare touch that vodka![/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS]In the UK, legal drinking age is 18. If it's with a meal, and an over-18 is buying, you can drink at 14. 18 is the age at which you can buy cigarettes, too.

You can get a driver's license at 17, here, which I think is a cunning plan. You get all the warnings about drunk-driving on the driving theory test one year before you're (technically) allowed to drink. Of course, plenty of people are still idiots.
[/font]

[Darker Alucard]

There's one thing, I've seen Imature people with 21 and mature people with 18. the deal here is that, if when you Legally can you go running to get drunk and addicted to smoking then your stuill imature because you're killing yourself. If an "Adult" was mature he wouldn't get drunk just because he is "Legal" and wasn't goin' to kill not only himself but everyone around him with stupid cigarrettes Just because his legal too. I rest my case.

DA Lawyer

Darker Alucard

[Horendithas]

It can be hard to determine when someone is truly adult enough to handle the responsibility of being allow to drink, smoke or drive for that matter. I have seen 14 year olds more mature than some who are over 20 years old. Being considered an adult at 18 is in no way an indication of just how mature and responsible someone will be.

Setting the law for alcohol at 21 is rather pointless as well as it cannot possibly determine if someone is ready enough to handle the responsibility. I personally think more time should be spent educating teenagers regarding the issues surrounding tobacco and alcohol use and regarding the perils of driving recklessly.

Here in Utah the driver?s Ed program is severely lacking in my opinion. And I don?t ever recall being taught about alcohol or tobacco use. How can the state or country possibly consider someone an adult when they hand over the ability to make choices without much in the way of information to help them make an informed choice?

I am however in complete agreement with SunfallE. The penalties for drunk driving are far to light in my opinion. So many of them cause crashes that kill and after a slap on the wrist so to speak they are back on the streets driving drunk yet again. I often wonder just how many more have to die before our government or state officials make the penalties fit the crime. Till later.