Hurricane Katrina

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Retribution][SIZE=1]If there's a [B]city-wide manditory evacuation[/B'] being held, you know the Hurricane means business. To all those who decided to stick it out, to hunker down and see what would happen, you're retards. That's why the death toll is going to be so high. Yes, there are those who lacked the means of leaving the city. That doesn't mean you just sit at your house and let the sh_t hit the fan. Hitch-hike, use public transportation, whatever you can do to leave the area, do it.[/SIZE][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]There were people who just couldn't leave period. Nurses, Doctors, police officers the list goes on. and as you may have read a few posts up even some people who [i]did[/i] evacuate didn't make it.

And what if you couldn't get ahold of public transportation or people were too busy saving their own skins?

The people who were stuck in the cu\ity tried to get shelter the best they could. It's not their fault that the roof started to leak in the Superdome or that idiots decided to help themselves rather than think of others. That doesn't mean that the governmemt should just sit back and watch them starve.[/color]

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]
True, it's useless, but I was telling Chibi something. I wasn't preaching, I was saying that those who camped out by choice aren't getting as much sympathy, as those who just couldn't physically make it out, from me at least. As for it being cruel, I don't think so - I think I was being pretty reasonable. And really, are we disallowed to remark on what should have been done, for the reason it might be cruel to the person? No! That's what history is. We remark about what should have happened. And yes, you do what you can in the present to help people.[/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]

As it was, somthing like 30% of New Orleans was below the poverty line. There was somthing around 70,000 people who stayed and took refuge in the Superdome and surrounding area. I'm **** at math, but I think that 70,000 is somthing around 30% of 500,000. Wait, no, it's less. So the majority DID get out. But in all honesty, do you know how difficult it is to just get everyone out in the course of a week or two? Now throw in the fact that maybe 50%, maybe more, have no transportation at all. They never had a chance to get out; and I'd rather be caught hunkered down in the Superdome than caught in traffic. [/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
Well, I'm no Bush fan, but I know enough to say that my country's government is not rotten. Yes, those holding office have different view from me [or you, for that matter], but that doesn't automatically make it a rotten-to-the-core system. Really, I'd like to think that the American government has more intergrity than that of the Chinese.[/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]

Not that I really want to get into this, butttttttt...

Wether you share his views or not, the current Bush Administration [I]is[/I] rotten. When they aren't busy screwing over NAFTA or handing out under-the-table bonuses to the CotW, they're busy being baught out by King Fahd or Haliburtun. When Bush isn't on vacation, he's busy doing favours for the people who got him elected (See: The Ambassador to Canada). The fact is the Bush Administration is rotten to the core. And ya, it's better than the Chinese Dictatorship. But that's like saying 'Least we're not the Nazis!'. Just because it isn't the worst doesn't mean it's not terrible.[/COLOR]

[Genzo]

This Hurricane is obviously One of the worst i Have heard of

Last Year 4 hurricanes hit the carrebean

This one was worse than all 4 put together

Last thing i have to say

The US cant even cope with this because they've spent to much money trying to bring democracy to Iraq.

People of New Orleans My prayers are with you

[Retribution]

[SIZE=1]Right, valid points. However, I was saying that [b]those who could have gotten out in time, but chose to fortify their homes were foolish.[/b] Yes, there are those people who were trying to leave, but got caught in the storm, or those who did not have the means, but those people weren't everyone. Make no mistake - there defintely people who decided to camp out in their homes.

As for the government being rotten ... eh, I still stand in the same place. I definitely don't approve of [most of] Bush policy, but I'm not going to call the man rotten or facist. [/SIZE]

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]Right, valid points. However, I was saying that those who could have gotten out in time, but chose to fortify their homes were foolish. Yes, there are those people who were trying to leave, but got caught in the storm, or those who did not have the means, but those people weren't everyone. Make no mistake - there defintely people who decided to camp out in their homes.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
True... but think about it. If your entire life is your home, you have NOTHING else, everything you own in the world is there, would you be so quick to just throw it away? Would you throw away everything you've worked towards in your entire life? Not many were expecting this to be the worst natural disaster in the US' history, they thought they'd ride it out in their home because, well, it's their home... I wouldn't just give up my house without a fight.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
As for the government being rotten ... eh, I still stand in the same place. I definitely don't approve of [most of] Bush policy, but I'm not going to call the man rotten or facist.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Fair enough. But maybe when you've suffered as much as my family and my friends families and my communities have at the hands of this man you'll understand.[/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Retribution][SIZE=1]
As for the government being rotten ... eh, I still stand in the same place. I definitely don't approve of [most of] Bush policy, but I'm not going to call the man rotten or facist. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I just want to say that I like to believe that there is at least something good in every person. George W. Bush, for example, has some noble thoughts and principles, but a government isn't one person - not even in America.

A government is a bureaucratic and politic system with it's own harsh realities and rules. Such systems tend to bring out the worst in individual persons, and when everybody are acting for their own personal benefit, things go rotten.

So, I don't believe for a second that Bush didn't want to send help to New Orleans out of malice and racism, it's just that the system didn't allow it - and he knew it.

There are countless cases of idealistic young politics who enter the governmental system and end up dropping their ideologies because of the corruption within the system. They either sell it for personal gain or just give up after seeing that they have very little influence on it.

"Legally Blonde"-movies are a ditzy and humorous example, but if you look deep into them, you'll realize they have much truth in them.

To summarize things, I wasn't saying that Bush is rotten to the core, but the whole system around him is.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
True... but think about it. If your entire life is your home, you have NOTHING else, everything you own in the world is there, would you be so quick to just throw it away? Would you throw away everything you've worked towards in your entire life? Not many were expecting this to be the worst natural disaster in the US' history, they thought they'd ride it out in their home because, well, it's their home... I wouldn't just give up my house without a fight.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]What can you do to 'fight' the hurricane? Board up your windows? Yes, you can do that, but it doesn't require watching the storm roll in from your door stoop. It would be hard to throw everything away, but if there's a manditory city wide evacuation, it's common sense to know that it must be a large storm. Cities don't have manditory evacuations for any old storm; they have them when there's a significant risk that you're going to die if you choose to stay. Sadly, that is what happened to a great many people.

If there were a manditory evacuation, yes, I would leave my house. My life is more important than worldly possesions. I'm not saying this is some easy decision, but I would rather keep living and have to start over, rather than have everything end.

[QUOTE][COLOR=DarkRed]
Fair enough. But maybe when you've suffered as much as my family and my friends families and my communities have at the hands of this man you'll understand.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
What suffering what you endured? I'm being serious about this question; it's not meant to be sarcastic, despite how it sounds.

[QUOTE=Sage]A government is a bureaucratic and politic system with it's own harsh realities and rules. Such systems tend to bring out the worst in individual persons, and when everybody are acting for their own personal benefit, things go rotten.

So, I don't believe for a second that Bush didn't want to send help to New Orleans out of malice and racism, it's just that the system didn't allow it - and he knew it.

There are countless cases of idealistic young politics who enter the governmental system and end up dropping their ideologies because of the corruption within the system. They either sell it for personal gain or just give up after seeing that they have very little influence on it.

"Legally Blonde"-movies are a ditzy and humorous example, but if you look deep into them, you'll realize they have much truth in them.

To summarize things, I wasn't saying that Bush is rotten to the core, but the whole system around him is.[/QUOTE]
I feel like a dirty Bush-supporter defending the man, but whatever. :p

Alright, I don't believe that Bush wanted to let New Orleans suffer, or perhaps I'm just not being cynical enough. What makes me say that is the several days it took for him to send aid there. Seriously now, it's not the 'system' that prevents him from sending help to New Orleans. It's his own lack of initiative that did it. What was stopping 'the system' from sending help just a few days earlier? Is it because this 'system' just wanted to watch some more death in New Orleans, or was it because Bush didn't appeal to them about it? Really, the whole blaming the system bit gets old after a while... It's true that America isn't run by one man, but essentially (for the time being, anyway) it is. He controls everything as of now, so what was stopping this system from sending aid? Nothing. It was himself. [Sorry if that argument was somewhat roundabout.

Give me some of these 'countless cases' where some young upstart manages to claw his/her way to power, an drop his/her morals to fit in. I'm sure it's happened before, but not because the system is inherently corrupt. You think it's corrupt because the people operating within it have different ideas of what's 'right' and 'wrong.' You disagree with their stances on the issues. Let's be honest, if [pick your favorite president] were in office, would you be talking about how the system is so corrupt? I think not.[/SIZE]

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE]
What can you do to 'fight' the hurricane? Board up your windows? Yes, you can do that, but it doesn't require watching the storm roll in from your door stoop. It would be hard to throw everything away, but if there's a manditory city wide evacuation, it's common sense to know that it must be a large storm. Cities don't have manditory evacuations for any old storm; they have them when there's a significant risk that you're going to die if you choose to stay. Sadly, that is what happened to a great many people.

If there were a manditory evacuation, yes, I would leave my house. My life is more important than worldly possesions. I'm not saying this is some easy decision, but I would rather keep living and have to start over, rather than have everything end.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Fair enough. I don't think either of us knows what was running through the minds of the people of N.O. I don't think even they know.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]
What suffering what you endured? I'm being serious about this question; it's not meant to be sarcastic, despite how it sounds.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Well, my community has a large reliance on the Beef industry. My family personally doesn't work on a Cow farm, but the large majority of people in my community do. When the vast majority of the community suffers, everyone in the community suffers. The beef industry of Canada is partically dead; and the Bush Administration's protectionist policies are directly to blame. The Beef Ban has made it nearly impossible for most beef farms to sell their product. My community has been bled dry, and my entire countries econemy has suffered tragically due to it.

Furthermore, the Bush Admin's protectionism has killed another prime industry of Canada: Lumber. By completely disregarding NAFTA and illegally ******* over the Canadian Lumber Industry they've already cost us 5 Billion or more and caused hundreds of plants to go out of buisness, thousands of jobs have been lost.

Again, and this one is more of the US' Government in general, the US completely disregarded legality and fairness by patroling Canadian waters in the Artic with it's subs. As little a deal as this is now, once the North West Passage opens up it's going to be a VERY big deal; the US has a 'If we can't have it, Canada sure can't.' attitude on the subject. Arguements to declare it international waters, thus killing Canada's right to taxes of ships passing through, are already in progress.

In closing: The Bush Administration makes me sick. They prattle on about spreading democracy and peace and making the world a better place, and than turn around and do exactly what they claim to be stopping. Two-faced rotten bastard. I've heard people say Bush is worse than Hitler, and, though I don't necessarily agree, they do have a point: at least Hitler addmitted he was going evil. There's nothing worse than somone who says 'Don't worry, I got your back!' and than shoots you. [/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Retribution][SIZE=1]
Give me some of these 'countless cases' where some young upstart manages to claw his/her way to power, an drop his/her morals to fit in. I'm sure it's happened before, but not because the system is inherently corrupt. You think it's corrupt because the people operating within it have different ideas of what's 'right' and 'wrong.' You disagree with their stances on the issues. Let's be honest, if [pick your favorite president] were in office, would you be talking about how the system is so corrupt? I think not.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but as I'm not American, I can only speak from an outsiders point-of-view. And speaking objectively, the government of USA seems like a very rotten one at this moment.

Of course it hasn't always been so, because "the system" isn't a living, breathing, thinking organism itself, but it is based on the people in charge. It's kind of a vicious cycle, where corruption encourages corruption, people become selfish because they are expected to do so etc.

I'm not an anarchist, I don't support total revolution, but isn't it obvious, after the events following the hurricane, that things must change Stateside? If not for anything else, then for the good of the people living there.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]

Furthermore, the Bush Admin's protectionism has killed another prime industry of Canada: Lumber. By completely disregarding NAFTA and illegally ******* over the Canadian Lumber Industry they've already cost us 5 Billion or more and caused hundreds of plants to go out of buisness, thousands of jobs have been lost.

Again, and this one is more of the US' Government in general, the US completely disregarded legality and fairness by patroling Canadian waters in the Artic with it's subs. As little a deal as this is now, once the North West Passage opens up it's going to be a VERY big deal; the US has a 'If we can't have it, Canada sure can't.' attitude on the subject. Arguements to declare it international waters, thus killing Canada's right to taxes of ships passing through, are already in progress.

In closing: The Bush Administration makes me sick. They prattle on about spreading democracy and peace and making the world a better place, and than turn around and do exactly what they claim to be stopping. Two-faced rotten bastard. I've heard people say Bush is worse than Hitler, and, though I don't necessarily agree, they do have a point: at least Hitler addmitted he was going evil. There's nothing worse than somone who says 'Don't worry, I got your back!' and than shoots you. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Hitler never admitted he was "going evil". He was so staunch on his beliefs he let his country die before he realized that the war was lost. Even then, he killed himself instead of being captured.

Illium, while we can both agree that the US Gov't was too slow to react to this disaster, and that we should have been better prepared- blaming the lack of relief on Bush is both irrational and infantile. Don't take advantage of a truly tragic situation to push your political agenda. This is exactly the wrong way of going about this the wrong way. If you think President Bush is Hitler, take it to another thread... I think attacking him EVEN while he is working at this very moment to help NO is not only innappropriate, but misplaced.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth]Hitler never admitted he was "going evil". He was so staunch on his beliefs he let his country die before he realized that the war was lost. Even then, he killed himself instead of being captured.

Illium, while we can both agree that the US Gov't was too slow to react to this disaster, and that we should have been better prepared- blaming the lack of relief on Bush is both irrational and infantile. Don't take advantage of a truly tragic situation to push your political agenda. This is exactly the wrong way of going about this the wrong way. If you think President Bush is Hitler, take it to another thread... I think attacking him EVEN while he is working at this very moment to help NO is not only innappropriate, but misplaced.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Fair enough. I wasn't making the comparison, I even said I didn't really agree. But I was only responding to Retributions question on why I hated the Bush Admin. The comparison was more directed at the fact that Hitler didn't try to hide the fact that he was invading somone; he invaded Poland and didn't hide his reasons. Bush is all 'Progress, progress, Iraq, progress, democracy, peace, fair trade, down with the evil-doers, etc etc.' and than he turns around and slaps it's biggest trading partner in the face.

I wasn't pushing my agenda. Part of the blame [I]does[/I] rest with the Bush Administration though, but my main blame for the slow reaction to this disaster was directed at FEMA. I don't know all that much about FEMA, but considering that it has the word 'Federal' in it's name, I'm assuming it's a branch of the government. [/COLOR]

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
Fair enough. I wasn't making the comparison, I even said I didn't really agree. But I was only responding to Retributions question on why I hated the Bush Admin. The comparison was more directed at the fact that Hitler didn't try to hide the fact that he was invading somone; he invaded Poland and didn't hide his reasons. Bush is all 'Progress, progress, Iraq, progress, democracy, peace, fair trade, down with the evil-doers, etc etc.' and than he turns around and slaps it's biggest trading partner in the face.

I wasn't pushing my agenda. Part of the blame [I]does[/I] rest with the Bush Administration though, but my main blame for the slow reaction to this disaster was directed at FEMA. I don't know all that much about FEMA, but considering that it has the word 'Federal' in it's name, I'm assuming it's a branch of the government. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
You were comparing him to Hitler, and you were pushing your agenda.

This disaster was multiplied the by incompetent cluster of men that comprise our government because they were busy building bridges in Alaska to honor a senator that's most notable achievement was getting a bridge named after him. The only brightside to the hurricane is that the new media is finally not portraying Bush as an infallible object. When Shepard Smith of Fox News is calling the Bush administration out on their screw up, you know something has gone terribly awry.

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=Harry]You were comparing him to Hitler, and you were pushing your agenda.

This disaster was multiplied the by incompetent cluster of men that comprise our government because they were busy building bridges in Alaska to honor a senator that's most notable achievement was getting a bridge named after him. The only brightside to the hurricane is that the new media is finally not portraying Bush as an infallible object. When Shepard Smith of Fox News is calling the Bush administration out on their screw up, you know something has gone terribly awry.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
I was comparing him to no one. I simply said that people who do have at least one point.
And pushing my agenda? If you stop sniping at me and bloody read what I was responding too you'll see it was a 'btw' type question that was off the mark of the original topic. Besides that, everything I said [I]was[/I] valid - since when is it pushing your agenda to call the kettle black?

The disaster was multiplied because of the bumbling of, first of all, FEMA, secondly, the state of Luisiana and it's lack of a plan, and lastly to the federal Government because they refused to allow other countries to aide them quick enough - I mean [I]Cuba[/I], the most bullied nation on earth at this point, offered aide and such a generous offer - one that may well have put an end to this stupid Capitalist vs Communist thing that's been going on - was just laughed at! Who cares if the US and Cuba have had their outs? This is about more than petty politics - and the Government doesn't seem to realize this.

BTW, I agree. Faux News sucks terribly.[/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]If the above people restarted this post for the above reasons, shame on you. :animeangr

Moving on the City of New Orleans is fianlly being evacuated- by force if necessary. Now one of the biggest problems facing some residents now is keeping their pets. Yes the real reason some people didn't evacuate is because they couldn't take their pets who are like members of the family. They were told that they couldn't take them where they were going and that they would have to leave their pets behind. I know I couldn't do that. Now that many of them can take their animals more people are leaving.

The most recent pictures now are showing stranded dogs, some stuck in trees or limping through the sewage (well, technically it's water but sewage is more acurate for the time being.) Even before I saw them I donated some money at my local animal shelter. I strongly recommend doing that because after a while people can help themselves, animals can't.

Monroe county (the name of the county I live in ) is one of six counties in NY that is taking in refuges from the hurricane. My mom said that if we had more room she'd consider taking in some people. But our four bedroom house is already about to explode with people, so no can do.

The thing I'm getting sick of right now is the blame game over who dropped the ball first in this fiasco. What everyone has to focus on now is getting everything straightened up. Who messed up can wait for another day.

A few local radio stations are getting together tomorrow to try and raise money for the red cross. One of the guys is going to offer to squeegi people's windsheilds for money. I want to go down there just because he has a really nice southern drawl.... And I want to help out! Yeah!

So now I'm wondering if anyone or any organisation in your area is doing any fund raising to help out. And please no more of that above crap.[/color]

[Sage Kaley]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]
So now I'm wondering if anyone or any organisation in your area is doing any fund raising to help out. And please no more of that above crap.[/color][/QUOTE]

I believe that the Red Cross in my area just had a blood drive because my mom gave blood. And she's very afraid of needles, hospital related stuff.

I agree, blame and all that is stupid now. But wow, people leaving their pets. I couldn't leave Abby (my dog) and I know that's silly but...I just couldn't. I read some owners asked a vet who was staying in New Orleans to kill their animals, so they wouldn't suffer. She's taking care of dozens of pets on top of that. I think that's amazing that she would ease people's minds like that.

[Lightwing]

man...i hate when this happened and i dont know why the rich aint giving money to the victims and stuff but the poor are.

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
I was comparing him to no one. I simply said that people who do have at least one point.
And pushing my agenda? If you stop sniping at me and bloody read what I was responding too you'll see it was a 'btw' type question that was off the mark of the original topic. Besides that, everything I said [I]was[/I] valid - since when is it pushing your agenda to call the kettle black? .[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
That wasn't a snipe, you wrote a half page rant about how Bush was hurting Canada's logging industry and then go on to say how much you hate Bush. What link is there at all to the hurricane? Seriously I would like to know what you were getting at there besides your common "Bush is evilz" idea.

[quote]man...i hate when this happened and i dont know why the rich aint giving money to the victims and stuff but the poor are.[/quote]
fo realz

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS]Harry, Ilium, stop clogging up the thread with your pointless sniping. If it's not about the Hurricane, it doesn't belong here.[/font]

[BlackTigerGurl]

[FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=DarkRed][CENTER]I had never in my lifetime dealt with something like this before. I know many people who left the state to get out of Katrina's path, but as for my family and I we stayed and sat threw it all. I hated it. It lasted two hours and all I could hear where the winds ripping at the windows trying to get inside. But no really damage happened to my house. We leave on high grounds in strong well built houses. But as for some of my friends they lost it all. There homes and everything in it. I wanted to cry when I saw some of my friends in shelters homeless. At times I asked myself why. Why this? Why now? Why my time? But it is wrong to question God. He makes things happen for a reason. A reason we don't understand and know. This is something we all can tell our kids in the future. I know. I pray for those who lost their homes. And I pray that they'll find a new place to start over new.

Sincerly,
BlackTigerGurl :catgirl: [/CENTER][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Kai123]

yeah NASCAR is helping out with this and i'm glad i won 2 races and gave my winnings for them and for evry lap i did was the mmoney to give them. i hope it will be alright then.