A Quiet Passing

[Lafleur]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Okay first of all- quit yer bellyachin'.

You really get on my nerves here acting like since it's a US tradgedy we should just suck it up. No one told the people in the Phillipines that they should suck up their natural disater or the same with the Gulf States. This [b][I]TERRORIST ATTACK[/i][/b] was [i]not[/i] a natural disaster. A bunch of nutters got in in their heads to hijack airplanes and run them into the WOrld Trade Center and the Pentagon. And if it wasn't for that group of heros on flight 92 (?) there would have been another tradgedy. People lost thier lives in a senseless act of violence. This was the largest TERRORIST ATTACK on US soil! Of course we're still going to mourn

As for aide to other countries not counting. What a load of crap. Just because we're one of the richest countries in the world doesn't mean that what we donate doesn't count. And I really don't think it mattered nationality wise. I mean look at the bombings in BAli back in 2002 which were also the work of Al Quieda. Nobody's saying Hey Bali suck it up!

I'm really tired of all the anti-American sentiment and since we're America we can't mourn. Sure everyone may hate us because of Bush and his cronies, but that's not all America. For El sake, grow a soul![/color][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]
I think his point was more to the "THIS SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING TO US! WE'RE THE US!" attitude. I mean on 9/11 there are moments of scilence all across the world - did you have a moment of scilence on September First, the aniversity of the Beslan Terrorist Attacks? Or what about the Montreal Massicare? In my school we have moments of scilence for both the MM and the Columbine Shootings - do any in the US?

I guess what I'm getting at is: why should the whole world stand still just because it happened to the US and not in, say, Malaysia or China. Remember when those two massive dams in China collapsed? Highest destruction and death toll of any man-made disaster, and no one even mentioned it the year after it happened. You can mourn all you like - I just don't see why we should all mourne when the US will not do the same for us.

That's what I understand Sage to be saying, I may be wrong though. [/COLOR]

[James]

[QUOTE=Sage]
This is not the single-most destructive thing that humans have caused to other humans, and [I]that's[/I] why I'm so annoyed that even us foreigners are almost forced to have "silent moments" and think about it annually.

America is not the navel of the world, even though you living there seem to think that!

I apologize for being rude and coming to flood this thread with my frustration, but I really did it [I]out of respect for those billions of dead people who [B]do not[/B] get an annual memorial thread here[/I].

Oh, and SunfallE, I wasn't saying that America doesn't send any foreign aid, I was saying that all the western "civilized" countries seem to have money only for the tragic events that occur in the west.[/QUOTE]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Nobody is forcing you to have a silent moment. It's up to you.

And the fact is, America [i]is[/i] the navel of the world. I'm not even saying it's a good thing - but it's true. lol America is the richest/most powerful country on Earth. By definition, they are therefore at the center of commerce and so many other things. It would be better to just accept that reality, whether it sits well with you or not. Believe me, I'd agree that there are problems with this whole concept, but there's no point complaining about a basic reality of life.

As far as the tsunami goes, I think you are wrong. I think the number of Australians who died was an incredibly small number (in single digits), yet we sent a ton of financial and other aid to the region. This is also true of America and other nations who lost very few people.

While I agree somewhat about media coverage, it's important not to take that idea too far. The reality is somewhere in the middle.[/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Ilium][COLOR=DarkRed]
I guess what I'm getting at is: why should the whole world stand still just because it happened to the US and not in, say, Malaysia or China. Remember when those two massive dams in China collapsed? Highest destruction and death toll of any man-made disaster, and no one even mentioned it the year after it happened. You can mourn all you like - I just don't see why we should all mourne when the US will not do the same for us.

That's what I understand Sage to be saying, I may be wrong though. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]To me Sage is comparing natural disators to a terrorist attack- hardly the same thing.

The dams in China were a structual thing, not a terrorist attack. Columbine- children who didn't receive pschycho therapy not a terrorist attack.

Bombings at the night club in Bali in 2002- Terrorist attack.

Bombing at the Federal Building in OK? Home made terrorist attack. See the difference?

Quit whining about the US. Maybe the whole country doesn't make a big deal about attacks on other countries (of course our president is a narssisistic nationalist ethnocentric dork, but I didn't vote for him.) That doesn't mean that everyone in the country forgot about those dates.

My feeling on that day was more of a 'How sick and uncaring can people get' thing not a 'Hey we're the US you can't do that' thing. Don't generalize the whole country to fit your ideals.[/color]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]To me Sage is comparing natural disators to a terrorist attack- hardly the same thing.
[/color][/QUOTE]

No, I wasn't! Please read my posts more carefully before flaming me.

And thanks Ilium for clarifying my words, it really was the point I was trying to get through.

For the last time: I haven't once told that Americans shouldn't mourn the victims of 9/11, but I tried to point out that [I]no other great disaster/terrorist attack has ever gained a world-wide mourning date or silent moments[/I]!

9/11 is not the only major terrorist attack that has happened in the world, so that's why I'm asking you Americans not to make it look like it was!

Oh and Jamesy, USA is not the navel of the world, at least not to me. It doesn't dictate our laws, our society's rules, our economy, our media, nothing. I for one still live in an independent country, and the navel of my world is me myself and the people close to me.

[Horendithas]

[QUOTE=Sage]9/11 is not the only major terrorist attack that has happened in the world, so that's why I'm asking you Americans not to make it look like it was!
[/QUOTE]
I think I am a bit confused by this statement. I do not recall ever being told or thinking that America was the only country to have a major terrorist attack occur. So why do you claim that us Americans are trying to make it look that way?

I and most of my friends have always been of the opinion that it was only a matter of time until America was attacked like so many before us were. We never once thought that were the only ones. I know that I was saddened by the event as it felt to me like the tolerance for others different than you was disappearing in the world.

I guess I am curious to why you are primarily singling out America when I am quite sure that many other countries do not give a second thought over the many tragedies that have occurred due to terrorist attacks in the many nations of the world.

I know that in every history class I have taken we have always learned about the attacks that have occurred in other countries. I have always been taught about others who have suffered due to terrorist attacks. It is because we are not on the news making a public display of sympathy that you think we do not care about others?

It really is foolish to base your opinion of a nation on the news and media that you might see. For example the world may see that we elected Bush as our president again. Yet in the actual voting process the vote of the actually people was divided. Bush won by a very small margin in the popular vote. 51% voted yes and the other 49% voted no.

[QUOTE=Sage]
[I]no other great disaster/terrorist attack has ever gained a world-wide mourning date or silent moments[/I]!
[/QUOTE]

And I am curious as to why that would bother you? Is it not a sign that the world is finally waking up to the reality that terrorists are more than somebody else?s problem? Would you have accepted a worldwide mourning day if it were for some other country than America? I can understand that you are frustrated but to me you are coming across more like you have a personal grudge against America in general than being bothered by the world recognizing a day of mourning for those who died.

I guess what I am saying is that quite a few of us Americans do not have the attitude of ?This shouldn?t be happening to us!? I am sure that there are those that do, but I am equally sure that there are quite a few who do not feel that way. Till later.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=indifference]
I guess I am curious to why you are primarily singling out America when I am quite sure that many other countries do not give a second thought over the many tragedies that have occurred due to terrorist attacks in the many nations of the world.[/QUOTE]

But... I haven't singled out USA. I've given examples of my own country, Finland, and I've blamed ALL the wealthy, "civilized" nations for ignoring the troubled, poorer countries.

As for why I'm basing my opinions on the media, it's because that is the only way I know of America. I haven't visited USA, I don't know people from there in real life, I have no ties to there.

But I'm not actually attacking USA here, I'm trying to point out that there is so much suffering around us that it's selfish for "the richest country in the world" to expect that the world will annually mourn with it for it's relatively small loss.

Okay, I admit that I've been rude and blunt with my wording, but you can't know how hard it is for me as a foreigner to try to speak my opinions with a language that's not my native!

So please don't cling onto every word I say but try to understand what I mean with them... :/

[Horendithas]

[QUOTE=Sage]But... I haven't singled out USA. I've given examples of my own country, Finland, and I've blamed ALL the wealthy, "civilized" nations for ignoring the troubled, poorer countries.

As for why I'm basing my opinions on the media, it's because that is the only way I know of America. I haven't visited USA, I don't know people from there in real life, I have no ties to there.

But I'm not actually attacking USA here, I'm trying to point out that there is so much suffering around us that it's selfish for "the richest country in the world" to expect that the world will annually mourn with it for it's relevantly small loss.

Okay, I admit that I've been rude and blunt with my wording, but you can't know how hard it is for me as a foreigner to try to speak my opinions with a language that's not my native!

So please don't cling onto every word I say but try to understand what I mean with them... :/[/QUOTE]

Ah I see. I was not aware that English is not your native language. It does help to explain why your posts seem so unnecessarily rude. I only know a tiny bit of another language myself so I can understand that it would make it harder to properly explain what you really mean.

I won?t argue over the fact that many of the wealthier nations could probably do more to assist others, as I agree with that statement. Personally I think a worldwide day of mourning would be better if it represented all the people who have lost their lives to such disasters, regardless of what country it happened in instead of focusing on just one nation.

I cannot speak for all Americans, but as for myself, I do not expect others to mourn with us. I will disagree with you on one small point but only because I have lost someone very dear to me. Although mathematically the disaster might be considered relatively small, or small because more lives were lost in a different tragedy, I cannot consider any loss small as even one life is one too many to be lost. Till later.

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Sage]But... I haven't singled out USA. I've given examples of my own country, Finland, and I've blamed ALL the wealthy, "civilized" nations for ignoring the troubled, poorer countries.

As for why I'm basing my opinions on the media, it's because that is the only way I know of America. I haven't visited USA, I don't know people from there in real life, I have no ties to there.

But I'm not actually attacking USA here, I'm trying to point out that there is so much suffering around us that it's selfish for "the richest country in the world" to expect that the world will annually mourn with it for it's relevantly small loss.

Okay, I admit that I've been rude and blunt with my wording, but you can't know how hard it is for me as a foreigner to try to speak my opinions with a language that's not my native!

So please don't cling onto every word I say but try to understand what I mean with them... :/[/QUOTE]

I admit, I too was getting the impression that you had a grudge against America. But if your native language isn?t English then it does explain why you seem much harsher than perhaps you intended. It must seem strange to post your thoughts in a language that does not match what you grew up with. Moving on?

I would recommend ignoring a lot of what the media says, as it doesn?t really give a true representation of how we feel or what America is truly like. The media is influenced by the people who are in power and quite often ignores how we really think. The media will always report stories based on what their sponsors want, as they are the ones who pay them. I know perfectly well that what we see on the news is censored.

That aside, I agree with indifference as I too never expected anyone to mourn with us here in the USA. It?s a nice thought, but I do not expect it of others. It certainly was not my idea to have a national day of mourning. And it would be more fitting if it were for all people who have died due to such a tragedy regardless of what country it happened in.

I also agree that the more powerful nations could probably do a lot more to assist others. But unfortunately that is unlikely to happen any time soon. I and many other Americans may want this but, we do not have the power to make such a thing happen. It can be quite frustrating to watch the leaders in power as they make decisions you do not agree with. Especially when it is leaders that you did not vote for.

Anyway, I too will disagree on one small point as I agree with indifference that no loss is small as even one life lost is unacceptable. Numbers are irrelevant in this respect. Long before 9/11 happened I lost someone dear to me so I can understand just how painful it was for those who lost loved ones. Telling them that their loss is small because others have lost more lives in a single event is in my opinion disrespectful and unnecessary.

Besides I think James said it well when he said no one was forcing you to have a silent moment. I know that I for one will not be offended if you do not. ^_^

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium]And the fact is, America [i]is[/i'] the navel of the world.[/font][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]We're not the [i]naval[/i] we're the [i]armpit[/i] of the world James, get it right!

And Sage, I'm sorry that I took your posts the wrong way- but some people very close to me lost members of their family in the attacks. So it's a bit personal to me.

That's all[/color]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]Message to Sage: if you can't take the heat Sage, don't enter the kitchen in the first place. And don't use THAT, either. I will call you on it outright the next time you use it because I know full well it isn't true.

It frustrates me to no end that when peoples lives are taken away by other humans in a deliberate and planned act, people can still bring politics into the mix of it all. "We deserved it" was something I saw a lot after 9/11. Or now, which I've seen several times in this thread, the more apathetic, "Who cares?"/"The injustice of everyone else that's dead going unnoticed"/"The unjustice because this day gets more notice than memorial day!"

All of those things, in my opinion are valid, relevant, and are indeed an injustice. But why can't anybody (particularly Americans) just stop for two seconds and acknowledge the immense tradgedy in all of this? And I know this idiom doesn't completely express it, but it's like you can't see the forest because of all the trees.

Maybe this is why I'm particularly annoyed when people are so apathetic toward the deliberate, large-scale demise of others, but for me, 9/11 was so utterly real. For days and days, we could FRIGGIN SEE the friggin smoke rising from that area. We could SEE that empty hole were the towers were if we took a 10 minute drive on either of two highways. My psuedo-uncle almost died in the second tower that fell. So it was definitely really real for me, which is why I have never forgotten that day.

On the anniversaries past, I haven't cried as much (this year and last I didn't cry), but I still feel sad. So perhaps time does heal wounds. But I have newspaper articles stacked up neatly on a bookshelf, and two CD disks with still pictures of ground Zero that if I know I look at, I will start to cry, because things like that, when faced with the absolute reality in facts, figures, diagrams, and pictures of the distruction, let you know how bad it was; how really real it was, and how distructive it was.

And I have no idea where I'm going with any of this, at this junction, but I guess I wanted to just say how I felt on 9/11, and how I wish other Americans, for two tiny seconds among their animosity, could pay respects to those who died, and those in other countries, for two seconds, could stop bashing us while we're thinking about a time when we were down, and hold it until tomorrow.[/color]

[Sandy]

I'm sorry - again - for being too harsh on this subject, MistressRoxie.

I know that the event touched many lives, and is still touching, and to those people the tragedy was more close than anything else. I feel sorry for those people, and I wish I never have to experience anything like that in my life.

This time there will be no "but"s in my post, even though some of you might have expected them.

I'm not saying I know how you feel, Roxie, cause I don't. I'm just hoping you could some day get over the bitterness that drizzled from your post. :/

[Bloodseeker]

I'm not in the mood to read, so maybe this has been said already...

I think that 9/11 might be the single most low-risk day out of the entire year as far as terrorist attacks are concerned. Its the day that everybody remembers 9/11/01. As such, people are more likely to notice terrorist activities on that day than on any other day of the year. Even the terrorists, who were so stupid that they couldn't even figure out to effectively capitilize on 9/11 (it would have been as simple as using a few car bombs in several small cities across the country to plant an even bigger feeling of unrest in everyone), aren't so dumb as to try an attack on the day when every other person is going to have something like that on their mind.