Perhaps the biggest problem in modern day society...

[Bloodseeker]

Its shot down more dreams than a bad economy, been the cause of more degenerates than drugs and alchohol, and has destroyed more lives than 9/11 and Katrina combined. What is it? ...Its bad parenting, and a general support by modern society for those bad parents. Our schools support them, government agencies like the FCC support them, and companies like 4kids have come around to make their job as a slacking overprotective parent easier.

Childhood is the stage in a person's life where they learn all of their initial values, skills, and preferences. Think of it as building a house. Until the age of four or so, the foundation is being laid out by the people that surround the kid on the regular basis. The kid watches them and learns from their actions. This is a time when controlling what a kid sees is good. You don't want the house to be built on violence.

From the age of five until puberty, the house itself is being built. At this point, the kid has a fair amount of understanding of what he or she is seeing, and begins to build the skills and values that are going to define them as an adult. The things that are introduced to them here are going to play a large role in their life preferences. Kids that are raised around cars are likely to take an interest in them, kids that are placed on sports teams are more likely to be atheletic, and kids that are raised around lots of technology are likely to be more interested in computers and videogames. (keep in mind that the parents do not make up the entirety of people that make an impact on the kid... friends and teachers make just as large of an impact) But much more important to the point, this is also the time when kids learn their values and many of their essential skills. Kids that aren't forced to work for their rewards are going to expect things for free, kids that don't recieve consequences for breaking the rules aren't going to understand the idea of consequences, kids that don't experience failure aren't going to understand the value of winning and doing well (and are going to be less motivated as a result), and kids that don't experience social hardships aren't going to know how to handle them when they get older. If you raise them in an environment where they're not going to experience any of these things (failure, social problems, work), they're going to turn into slackers that won't know how to handle life when they step out on their own. I'm sure that almost of all of you that are in your late teens to early twenties know, or at least know of, several people that are older than twenty and still living with their parents because they don't feel motivated to step out and step up.

The biggest contributer to this mentality of wussification is our schools. Many schools have rules set in place that teach kids not to stand up for themselves. At my old school, if somebody attacked you and you fought back, you were up for expulsion just like the other guy. They'd prefer that you get sent to the hospital. In some schools, the color red has been banned for grading papers because "its a negative color that represents failure". What would you call getting a question wrong on a test? That's definitely not success. And what about including every kid in that award ceremony? Including the ones that didn't do any homework? They didn't do anything to deserve that award. Same thing with that kid that sucks at soccer and still got a spot on the soccer team. I've even heard of schools that have rules that prevent kids from excluding another kid in social activities. You know that guy that annoys the hell out of you? You can't ditch him, nor can you tell him to go away. That's grounds for suspension. If that kid wants to join you and your friends in a round of Halo, he's going to have to gain your aproval by learning to not be so annoying. That's life. A society free of social problems and failure is not.

Now all of this isn't to say that person can't change once they hit the age of 21. But just like adding a fireplace and an extra room on a house, it would have been much easier on them if it had been added during the building stage, and chances are that the price wouldn't have been so high.

[Red]

[quote]From the age of five until puberty, the house itself is being built. At this point, the kid has a fair amount of understanding of what he or she is seeing, and begins to build the skills and values that are going to define them as an adult.[/quote]

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know this takes place from the age of two onwards. Self-awareness triggers a whole new stage in the development of a child. When they're aware of what and who they are, they're more able to build on what they see around them and act on their own thoughts.

[quote]Kids that are raised around cars are likely to take an interest in them, kids that are placed on sports teams are more likely to be atheletic, and kids that are raised around lots of technology are likely to be more interested in computers and videogames.[/quote]

Wow, where do you pull this from? That's one heck of a generalisation.

The principle of monkey see, monkey do is pretty clear cut among children with their parents. The likelihood of what they're going to take up as an interest is anybody's guess, though. What about the Chinese kids who have nigh on zero experience with technology who are coming in their droves to the US & UK to study IT-related courses?

Children are the easiest people to mould, but they're also the most likely to break completely from whats set out in front of them. There are so many factors involved that saying someone is 'likely' to be interested in something because of their surroundings is a bit rash.

[quote](keep in mind that the parents do not make up the entirety of people that make an impact on the kid... friends and teachers make just as large of an impact)[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting their own experiences, thoughts, feelings & values. Influences from the outside are acted on by the child and in the end, they'll decide what tickles their fancy.

[quote] But much more important to the point, this is also the time when kids learn their values and many of their essential skills. Kids that aren't forced to work for their rewards are going to expect things for free, kids that don't recieve consequences for breaking the rules aren't going to understand the idea of consequences, kids that don't experience failure aren't going to understand the value of winning and doing well (and are going to be less motivated as a result), and kids that don't experience social hardships aren't going to know how to handle them when they get older.[/quote]

That's about as far off the point as you can get, and yet another brash generalisation of upbringing being the deciding factor in personality.

Of course, in some cases, what you say can be very right. But that doesn't apply to [i]everyone[/i]. There are so many different experiences that could trigger these sorts of responses in the future life of a person - you can't just point to a factor in their childhood and say that's why.

I have friends who were handed everything on a silver platter as children, yet work themselves to the bone now with no financial support from their parents or outside sources. You make it sound as if the things that happen in childhood correlate entirely to how they'll be in the future life, I suggest you talk to a child psychologist.

[quote]If you raise them in an environment where they're not going to experience any of these things (failure, social problems, work), they're going to turn into slackers that won't know how to handle life when they step out on their own. I'm sure that almost of all of you that are in your late teens to early twenties know, or at least know of, several people that are older than twenty and still living with their parents because they don't feel motivated to step out and step up.[/quote]

Yep. I'm nearly 19, living with my parents & motivated enough already, thankyou. Calling me a slacker last year wouldn't have been far off the mark, but I pulled myself out of that little hole using, oh you know, [i]freedom of choice[/i]. The same applies to someone who wants to stay inside. It's their decision - if something from their upbringing is really affecting them that much, they should seek ways around it.

Of course there are more deep-lying problems such as childhood abuse that can absolutely shatter the adult life of a person. It has been shown time and again, however, that these problems can be overcome too.

[quote]The biggest contributer to this mentality of wussification is our schools. Many schools have rules set in place that teach kids not to stand up for themselves. At my old school, if somebody attacked you and you fought back, you were up for expulsion just like the other guy. They'd prefer that you get sent to the hospital.[/quote]

I think they'd rather teach you the lesson that an eye for an eye isn't always the answer. In adult life - throwing a punch back can have implications against the punishment your attacker is going to receive. I hardly see why they shouldn't teach this to children, that your actions have consequences; whether in retaliation or not.

I have [i]never[/i] seen a school deliberately set out to teach a child not to stand up for themselves. I know first hand that while punches are being thrown you can't exactly call over a nearby teacher or adult with ease, but as I said, knowing your attacker will face harsh punishment can be good enough.

Many schools do go about things such as bullying the wrong way, and I think it's more of an issue of them catching up with modern social issues than anything else. Still, though, putting yourself in no area of wrong makes the whole process far more streamlined and possibly with worse consequences for the person who initiated the problem.

[quote] In some schools, the color red has been banned for grading papers because "its a negative color that represents failure". What would you call getting a question wrong on a test? That's definitely not success.[/quote]

I think this is more to do with the way a child's brain interprets things such as colour more than anything else. Subconciously, the colour red might add onto that feeling of failure. It might sound stupid, but psychological studies are there to determine whether these things are true or not. ;)

[quote]And what about including every kid in that award ceremony? Including the ones that didn't do any homework? They didn't do anything to deserve that award.[/quote]

They must've won an award for a reason. If not, wouldn't the achievement feel pretty empty?

[quote]Same thing with that kid that sucks at soccer and still got a spot on the soccer team. I've even heard of schools that have rules that prevent kids from excluding another kid in social activities.[/quote]

Because being constantly excluded from social activities as a child doesn't exactly make it enjoyable, maybe?

Oh and as for a kid that 'sucks' at soccer - how is the child supposed to get better without any practice? ;)

[quote]You know that guy that annoys the hell out of you? You can't ditch him, nor can you tell him to go away. That's grounds for suspension.[/quote]

Why can't you report this sort of thing to a teacher? They can hardly force you to put up with a person who's causing you problems.

[quote]If that kid wants to join you and your friends in a round of Halo, he's going to have to gain your aproval by learning to not be so annoying. That's life. A society free of social problems and failure is not.[/quote]

I'm sure that kid will just go and find a group of friends who can appreciate him for who he is, rather than find him annoying.

[quote]Now all of this isn't to say that person can't change once they hit the age of 21. But just like adding a fireplace and an extra room on a house, it would have been much easier on them if it had been added during the building stage, and chances are that the price wouldn't have been so high.[/QUOTE]

Really? Because your whole post seemed to point to upbringing being the deciding factor. Not a very good way to say that change is possible at a later stage.

[Sandy]

I think you missed Bloodseeker's actual point by going into the details, Red.

I don't agree with everything that Bloodseeker said either, but he made some good points as well.

Let me tell what I've learned from my school (I actually study this very subject, social care for children and youth):

A child's personality is formed from several factors: their genetic heritage, their upbringing and their environment. Bloodseeker concentrated at the latter two while seemingly forgetting the first, while Red emphasized on the child's/youth's own free will.

It actually comes down to all three of them. Now I don't believe that one can be born evil and malicious, so that no upbringing or good environment can change that. There are, however, those children who are mentally unstable and need therapy in order to learn basic social skills etc.

Then upbringing, it's actually quite a crucial part considering child's development as an independent, responsible, social adult. But as my own past has proven, a child can be born to the most incapable parents but still become a normal, mentally stable adult. It's up to the last piece of this puzzle.

Environment is basically everything outside the child's head and home: siblings, relatives, kindergarten, school, friends, hometown etc. They have their own effect on the growing individual, wether it be good or bad.

Of course the best possible outcome will come if all these three are in good shape - a child has a good "platform" to grow up from, so to say.

Unfortunately there are those cases where none of these three things are in sufficient condition. Here in Finland, where the social care is in top-notch shape, the ultimate option to this is to change the environment and the upbringers, ie. the social workers will take the child into care, to a foster home. Of course that process can often be traumatizing to the child, so it is the absolute final solution if everything else fails to help the family and especially the child.

So here's a future social care worker's point-of-view to the discussion. Upbringing is a serious matter, but I wouldn't really call it the [I]biggest[/I] problem in the modern society - just because it is dependent on so many other factors. ;)

[Red]

[quote name='Sage']I think you missed Bloodseeker's actual point by going into the details, Red.[/quote]

I went into details because bloodseeker didn't - shoving "the gist of the problem is..." into a post where generalisations about upbringing are the sole reason for a person being whatever way.

Your post, on the other hand, involves all the factors that can affect the growing of a person. I was replying pretty much solely about upbringing because genetic heritage & environmental factors didn't seem to be part of Bloodseeker's argument. ;)