Why America may or may not suck.

[Lv.12Wizard]

This thread is for people to rant about why they like/hate the U.S., how you think it could do better, or anything like that.

Personally, I think the present government is full of people overpaid and underqualified, who arn't able to do their job when the time comes for it to be done(though by now i'm shure most people think likewise). Right now, it is frighteningly close to a fascist theocracy, full of double standers, hypocricism, greed, and plain ignorance. I don't blame the government for all of americas problems; as a whole, the American people are retarded, irrational, and unable to accept even the slightest bit of change. Yes, I do realise this is a very broad generalization, as well as an exaggeration(though not by much).

Though there's something I think we can probably all agree on:Pat Robertson should be launched into the sun.(j/k, though we probably should at least take him off of his T.V. show)

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]The answer is quite simple. Evict Bush and his cronies from the White House and have them live like regular people for a few years. Let them get a job, put gas in their cars, heat their homes and make payments on things like the rest of us. Then allow everyone back in the White House and see what happens.

Then legalize same sex marriages and stop this silly idea of banning porn.

Have parents take responsibilty for their kids instead of relying on the TV and the government. I'd say more, but I cut my left index finger Friday morning and it hurts to type, plus it's bleeding again.[/color]

[Lafleur]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I have quiet a few issues with the US government. First and foremost, it's the double-standard, 'we make the rules, we break the rules' type of play. They turned NAFTA into one gigantic game of Calvin Ball. They condem one country for invading another and than turn around and invade 10 - millitarily or otherwise. They, more or less, think they own the world, and that's gotten to their heads. No country sits on a high-horse this long without going a little nutty.

The Bush Administration is a joke. Lets look at some of it's greatest achievments:

Early Years: Everything went wrong. Bush went on vacation a few times. Failed too pass most bills.

9/11: Bush Administration recieves a purpose, in the form of 'Spreading Democracy and Protecting America' from some invisable percieved threat or another. The whole concept is loony. A forces Democracy isn't a democracy to begin with.

Post-9/11: Got together the Think-Tank and came up with the brilliant idea to wage war againts a notion - againts religious extremeism, againts an invisible, faceless threat. They, of course, put a face on it - the face of Osama bin Laden. So Afganistan was invaded. All well and good, at least that was a terrorist hotbed. Osama was never found. As if playing Battleship, Bush randomly attacked another country in the Mid East - but this time, it was the least radical of all Mid East nation, the nation of Iraq. By doing so, the most secular, least threatning nation in the area became the single greatest terrorist-producer in history.

Other Monuments: Bush apoints new Ambassador to Canada. This man had never stepped foot in Canada prior to his appointment. In fact, the only reason he was appointed was because he helped Bush win his first election in the south through various Rallys and means etc. He also held anti-black, anti-gay, and anti-women rallies. Nice fellow.

Apoints a series of incompetent family friends to incredibly important positions - FEMA first and foremost.

Tries to declare Canadian water International Waters in order to gain easy access to the North West Passage and bypass Canada's right to the taxes etc that pass through the NWP.

Imposes illegal ban on Canadian Beef, virtually killing the Beef industry and putting thousands out of jobs - based on 2 cows in Alberta with Mad Cow. The ironic part is that, while an average of 2 Cows have this desies per year in Canada, the US itself has 25x that number. Another major importer to the US, Brazil, has more mad cow than any nation this side of China.

Imposes illegal Lumber Terrif in a protectionist move againts Canada, making it damn near impossible for Canadians too sell their Lumber in the US.

Handed out under-the-table bonuses to nations who helped them in the War in Iraq/Terror, while snubbing those who had the common sense not to go.

Turned the US from 'The Land of the Free' to 'The Land of the Free - As Long As You Aren't Muslim, Gay, a Reporter, Black, or Communist'. [/COLOR]

[kenshinsbabe]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Georgia]While I'd actually love to spend all day bashing Buch (seriously, I would. That's not a sarcastic comment), I'd like to address a few different aspects of the good ol' U.S (the sarcasm was there).

[B]Discrimination:[/B] EVERYWHERE. And lately, no one cares. If no one cares, it's going to be endlessly perpetuated.
Personally, I think we're regressing back to the twenties. The time when women were expected to be bowing and scraping after men. I'd rather die than be the equivilent of a slave to some man (I'm not sexist, I just don't like the idea of some guy ruling my life *glares at Bush*).
Also, the time when blacks were oppressed. Majorly. Lately, if you're black, you have to be a rapper with a bad attitude or no one likes you. No. Just...no.

[B]Sex:[/B] Running rampant through the streets are STD infested whores who get kicks and cash blow-jobbing some poor shmoe because he's "depressed and lonely". America already looks like a bunch of fat idiots bombing whatever country we like. The last thing we need is smut up the yin-yang.
Which brings me back to the woman issue. Young women (teenagers) have to dress like sluts or they're "not cool". Absolutely terrible. Just because I won't lower myself to exposing the parts of my body that only the man I marry will get to see makes me uncool. Fine, I'd much rather be uncool than a whore.

[B]Rolemodels:[/B] There are hardly any good rolemodels anymore. If kids look up to most of today's celebrities, tommorrow's society will be a bunch of dumb blondes showing off their surgically enhanced breasts to the public while drinking and smoking like there's no tomorrow because, when they were kids, that's what they were taught was okay. Because the parents never stepped in and said, "Hey, this **** will mess you up. So knock it off and make yourself useful to society!"

There will be much more later. I had to hold myself back, really. I could have cussed like a sailor and ranted about everything from taxes to obesity. I know that America has some positive aspects to it, but I'll list those later. I'm feeling negative right now.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[Lv.12Wizard]

To further prove kenshinbabes point: Those god-forsaken "Bratz" dolls. They bascally say that shallow is good. One specific instance, too: Bratz babyz. Instead of diapers, they have [B][U]thongs[/U][/B]. They also have "bottle bling", and motorcycles. At least the newer bratz baby crap isnt as bad: instead of thongs they have daisy dukes. Also, I think they got rid of the motorcycle.

[Dagger]

Well, I have almost zero interest in hashing over politics and governmental issues, but I figured I'd be the first one to pipe up and say--hey, I love living here. I feel lucky and privileged to be an American. I admire my fellow citizens. I don't share the opinion that our government is close to being a "facist theocracy" (hyperbole much?) or that "as a whole, the American people are retarded, irrational, and unable to accept even the slightest bit of change."

As far as I'm concerned, it's a sign of the country's greatness that people can get away with spewing elitist crap like that. See the problem in excusing yourself with, "Oh, I was just exaggerating, no need to get your panties in a twist"? :)

~Dagger~

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Well, I have almost zero interest in hashing over politics and governmental issues, but I figured I'd be the first one to pipe up and say--hey, I love living here. I feel lucky and privileged to be an American. I admire my fellow citizens. I don't share the opinion that our government is close to being a "facist theocracy" (hyperbole much?) or that "as a whole, the American people are retarded, irrational, and unable to accept even the slightest bit of change."

As far as I'm concerned, it's a sign of the country's greatness that people can get away with spewing elitist crap like that. See the problem in excusing yourself with, "Oh, I was just exaggerating, no need to get your panties in a twist"? :)

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]
For the most part, I agree with you, Dagger, sans one small caveat:

There are particular policies of the current administration that are so ***-backwards it hurts my brain immensely. Currently, present day, at 1:15 pm, we're pretty damn good. But honestly? If things keep going the way they're going, with the...[i]tendencies[/i] I see in certain unnamed Republican party members, I'm more fearful that we'll begin to lose what it is that makes us American (and better than most of the world, sociopolitically):

Freedoms.

There have been some really questionable pieces of legislation passed in the last couple of years, some of which had absolutely no hope of benefiting anyone (No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, etc.), and I don't believe the current administration has any real ideas how to handle social and domestic politics and policies.

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=trebuchet ms]I don't really mind living here at all, however, we have one of the highest murder rates in the world, don't we?

I see things on TV about Canadians not being in fear of eachother to the point where they don't even lock their doors. If you don't keep you door locked here, your stuff is as good as stolen. I think we walk around in USA like 'Am I going to die today?' because of things like this. The drivers are bad, the people are generally ignorant of eachother, and people are afraid to try things that aren't the norm. Those are the problems I see... you know, without going into politics.

It seems that our country doesn't have an open mind to anything, gay marriage is as good as banned, and now there's a war on porn, what?!

One country attacks us and we're taking over the whole middle east because of it.

Oh, did I mention that we built a city under sea level and put all of our gas there? WTF?

I'd like to live somewhere else, but you don't really know what it's like unless you travel to other countries, and I don't have that opportunity.[/font]

[kenshinsbabe]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Georgia]I realized Dagger's point when I was ranting about all the bad. I'm just saying that the bad in this country outnumbers the good most of the time. And usually, the good leads to the bad, directly or indirectly.

"...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."

The unalienable right of [B]life[/B] is basically tells us that we can live however we want if we follow a certain set of laws. Most people take advantage of this and lead great lives. Others take it away just because they're given legal means to do so, like guns. You see, rights like this would be terrific if they were enforced as well as they should be.

A search for a list of arrestable crimes in the U.S turned up these results:

[list]
[*]Arson
[*]Assult/Battery
[*]Bribery
[*]Burglary
[*]Child Abuse
[*]Child Pornography
[*]Computer Crime (doing anything illegal with your computer, like downloading or hacking)
[*]Conspiracy
[*]Credit/Debit card fraud
[*]Disorderly Conduct
[*]Domestic Violence
[*]Drug cultivation and manufacturing
[*]Drug distribution/trafficking
[*]Drug possession
[*]DUI/DWI
[*]Embezzlement (theft or larceny)
[*]Extortion (gaining of property or money by force)
[*]Forgery
[*]Indecent Exposure
[*]Identity theft
[*]Insurance Fraud
[*]Kidnapping
[*]Manslaughter:Invoulentary
[*]Manslaughter: Voulentary
[*]Money Laundering
[*]Murder: First degree
[*]Murder: Second degree
[*]Purjury
[*]Prostitution
[*]Pyramid schemes
[*]Racketeering/RICO (makes it illegal for criminal organizations to profit from legitimate business)
[*]Rape
[*]Robbery
[*]Securities fraud
[*]Sexual assult
[*]Stalking
[*]Tax evasion/fraud
[*]Telemarketing fraud
[*]Theft/Larceny
[*]Wire fraud
[/list]

Believe me, the list goes on and on. The only reason that most of these crimes happen is that we get legal means to do them. Our rights are terrific, but abused and horribly enforced.

And if you want to look up more about these things, this is the site I got them from: [URL=http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z.html][U]Crimes A to Z[/U][/URL] [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=Lv.12Wizard]This thread is for people to rant about why they like/hate the U.S., how you think it could do better, or anything like that.

Personally, I think the present government is full of people overpaid and underqualified, who arn't able to do their job when the time comes for it to be done(though by now i'm shure most people think likewise). Right now, it is frighteningly close to a fascist theocracy, full of double standers, hypocricism, greed, and plain ignorance. I don't blame the government for all of americas problems; as a whole, the American people are retarded, irrational, and unable to accept even the slightest bit of change. Yes, I do realise this is a very broad generalization, as well as an exaggeration(though not by much).

Though there's something I think we can probably all agree on:Pat Robertson should be launched into the sun.(j/k, though we probably should at least take him off of his T.V. show)[/QUOTE]

I really don?t agree with you, but only because your reasoning is to broad and vague. You could easily have this same discussion about pretty much every country in the world. Sure there are problems every country has them.

And there isn?t a place on Earth that doesn?t have their share of idiots living there. I think your wording is off by saying as a whole the American people are this and that and this, so to speak. Not only is that a case of extreme generalizing but also a huge exaggeration.

[QUOTE=Dagger]Well, I have almost zero interest in hashing over politics and governmental issues, but I figured I'd be the first one to pipe up and say--hey, I love living here. I feel lucky and privileged to be an American. I admire my fellow citizens. I don't share the opinion that our government is close to being a "facist theocracy" (hyperbole much?) or that "as a whole, the American people are retarded, irrational, and unable to accept even the slightest bit of change."

As far as I'm concerned, it's a sign of the country's greatness that people can get away with spewing elitist crap like that. See the problem in excusing yourself with, "Oh, I was just exaggerating, no need to get your panties in a twist"? :)

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

I agree more with Dagger here, as I love living here in America. And the fact that people can say such negative things and get away with it is proof in itself that America is a pretty great place.

I really think the problem is more with people?s character flaws than with what government they are a part of or what country they live in. It is the behavior that I hate and not a place or government per se.

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I love America and I hate America. I'm American - I grew up here, and as much as people continually point out that "we don't have our own culture," I would have to disagree - we do. And I think if I were to go abroad, yeah, I'm sure I'd love to see different places in the world, but I'd miss my home terribly, just because that's where I grew up and that's what I'm familiar with.

I have a problem with the rest of America. I am really sick people who voted for Bush based on his "morality," i.e., the south. And I think it's so stupid to elect someone on how much he believes in a religion. It was downright stupid and dangerous to elect someone with an ideological agenda. Bringing massive amounts of religion into politics, ESPECIALLY in America, is a dangerous thing to do. I also don't like the people in MY area who voted for him because they are wealthy and he's giving tax breaks to them and all that jazz. You ALREADY have money - stop being greedy pigs (ah well, if they did, I guess the basic economic problem would cease to exist. >< ).

I hate the Bush administration in general. Everything you guys have said about what he's done, I agree with. He is an idiot, the people around him are idiots. The only good one was Colin Powell, and he resigned because he saw that everyone was stupid. Good for him.

I find that Bush DOES bring too much religion into his politics, and I don't agree with that. Yeah, you should always keep basic principles of "murder is not okay, stealing is not okay, cheating is not okay, etc." in your mind, but not the type of stuff Bush is trying to push through.

I'm angry that he's trying to stop gay marriage, that he doesn't want women to make a choice about their own bodies (hey, there's another arguement point for the person who said our society is a throwback to the 20's!), and everything else he's done.

I mean, he takes vacations constantly, and he couldn't even properly respond to Hurricane Katrina (it was his own fault, too, for taking money away from wetlands rebuilding projects in that area. What a jerk.)

I know Ilium has outlined some of his offences against Canada - and he's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in other countries, too. I honestly don't blame them for hating us at THIS moment.

And don't, don't get me started on No Child Left Behind, 'cause my mom's a teacher and I tend to rant and blow up everytime I see the word. :X


I thought about this a while ago, and I've been thanking god ever since that this country is a democracy. With the type of immoral, backwards, self-serving, ideological agenda that Bush has, I am SOOOO glad this country is a working democracy. I'm glad that there are boundaries within which he MUST operate. I'm glad that if it goes to far, we always have the option of blowing the whistle on him. I'm glad that the Supreme Court can keep him in check. Because if this were an African Nation, or a former Communist Nation, with Bush at its helm, he would have been able to implement all of his ideas with no one to protest, and I think we'd be in deep deep trouble. If Bush were at the head of another nation, he'd be a dictator. And that is scary. So I have been thanking God lately that this country is a democracy.

P.S.: I agree that he has so many double standards. You can't speak out against him, which is totally wrong! A couple years back, I heard of people who ran a local Democratic newsflyer type thing that regularly criticized the Bush Administration, and they were put on the no flying list, couldn't get themselves off of it, and no one would help them. I mean - that's just wrong.[/color]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I like living in America. But considering that I've never really lived anywhere else, I don't know what that really means. But I'm content with staying here. :] The only reason I would move would be if something disasterous happened (no, the Bush administration doesn't count) or just to experience another country.

Of course, I have a giant problem with the Bush adminstration. I am so glad that he only has one more term left. I have a feeling he doesn't know what the 1st Amendment is. Or self control when it comes to mixing politics with religion. Or with his brain. I wish he'd read [b]1984[/b], but I'm afraid he's too stupid to actually understand that the novel is trying to get across. I just hope that a Democratic president will be elected for the next term, and that the Republicans don't get 60 spots in the senate. Oh God. I would have a seizure and die if that happened.

Other than the Bush Administration, I'd say I like the US. We have good rights written to us in the Constitution (even if the government screws us over) and we have a large amount of freedom. Sometimes **** happens and I want to kill some people, but whatever.

I will start worrying if the next administration continues to follow Bush's vision.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]While our government is a bit messed up I am glad to live here.

America is a great country to live in, because for the time being you can insult the government without fear of persecution because you are excersising your first amendment right as a citizen of the US.

Yes, some of the citizens of this country are arrogant, but most of us are really nice out going people.So don't be hatin'![/color]

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']America is a great country to live in, because for the time being you can insult the government without fear of persecution because you are excersising your first amendment right as a citizen of the US.[/color][/quote][SIZE=1]Exactly what I was going to say. Thank you CHW. I love America simply because of this reason, now before you go on about the bush administration, just think of the rights that we have over many other poor countries. We're given freedom to even have this discussion and the chance to rebel against our own government. We choose our own leaders and that is a power that not every country has. My grandma lived in Hungary during World War II which was a communist country at the time and I've heard plenty of stories of her harsh life growing up. The fact that we can make a difference is enough for me to appreciate being born here in America.

Also, I think [b]Kenshinbabe[/b] was trying to point out about the [i]media[/i], however I don't know how that relates to the government. I agree those Bratz dolls are pretty ridiculous but thats companies trying to make money. It's not like you don't see these types of things in England or Switzerland. I'm pretty sure you'll find conceited and shallow people there too. To characterize a country based on a type of person, seems a bit ridiculous. All countries have their problems and if someone believes 100% in your government then thats very naive.

Just to put it out there I'm not a bush fan. He used the christians and religious people to win votes for his campaign, everyone knows this. He wanted to get re-elected and this was his scheme to do it. However, I believe gay marriages will be legal one day, so I don't worry about it too much. The man looks like a monkey, sometimes I wonder if he's related to dumbo and will fly up into the air. Maybe I'll have to watch and see. Hmm..[/SIZE]

[AnimeFront]

Well I love america. And I really would not say our goverment needs change, but the people in the goverment at the time need some serious change. Bush is a man who keeps inserting his belief on everybody. And his reason for why he does not want certain things, is stupid. As far as I am concerned once you start using religon as a reason, you lost.


It really gets to me when everybody thinks all americans want this, and when i go out of the country people want to hate me for what the people in the goverment have done. When i was in france i was asked if i was a republican or democrrat. After i said democrat i was seated it was weird.


Our goverment design is no different than Canada and so forth but the people in the goverment right now are stupid.

PS destroy the electoral college.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think the problem is that most people who complain about politics don't really understand politics at all. The same is true here in Australia, where it is part of our culture to have a natural suspicion of government. I mean, of course there are negatives in politics - there's always going to be someone who is corrupt and there's always going to be someone who is trying to abuse the system in some way. I don't mean to dismiss any of that, but I think it has to be understood that this is part of human nature - no system, especially a democratic one, can be ideal. But the systems that are in place now are a whole lot better than the many alternatives out there.

It reminds me of a phrase that is often used in Australia: "The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer". I hear that all the time. A lot of people say it, especially those on lower incomes.

But is it really true?

Well, no...it isn't. The various data relating to unemployment, healthcare and education suggest that (in Australia anyway), living standards are constantly increasing and the gap between rich and poor is shrinking at a brisk pace.

Of course, these statistics do not mean anything to someone who is barely scraping by, but such information does suggest that some of these popular sentiments are really a kind of emotive rhetoric and don't have much basis in fact. This is also true of the slogan "No war for oil" - it's an emotive comment, but in and of itself (and in the context it's often used), it demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of current geopolitical issues.

I would rather have a media and a public that is suspicious of government than too supportive of it - whether or not the government is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. Having a general skepticism is probably better than being blindly supportive, regardless. However, I do think that a lot of today's skepticism and cynicism is based on misinformation. Part of this is possibly due to most information being pushed through the media's own prism, but a large part of it relates to the fact that [i]most[/i] people will happily jump on the bandwagon without doing any real research and without looking more deeply at the issues.

For example, Australia's current Prime Minister is very unpopular among young people (the same way that George W. Bush is unpopular among American youth). However, a lot of young Australians seem to think that this is somehow new - that our Prime Minister is somehow worse than anyone beforehand. What they fail to realize is that their current outbursts against the government have and will always exist - young people in particular are the ones who often want change, but they are also often the most misinformed about politics and history. This is especially true if you take more than a passing glance at tertiary institutions and their students' political involvement.

In Australia at least, any Prime Minister who is in office for long enough is bound to become despised by young people across the country - this has little to do with real knowledge about policy and more to do with a general "stick it to the man who is trying to corrupt our society" mentality, which itself is part and parcel of being a young person in many respects. The Prime Minister (or president), often seems to become a central figurehead that represents everything that is regressive and stale and opposed to change. I'm sure that is often somewhat true, but it's a simplistic point of view that fails to recognize the complexity of society.

I know few people my age in Australia who suppor the current Prime Minister. I have several friends who chose anti-war themes for their class projects in graphic design school. But I also noticed that those same people were completely ignorant about politics - none of them watched or read news and none of them did any kind of investigation into issues relating to UN resolutions and so on. Therefore - at least among my own age group - the most vocal were also the most ignorant. I found that both funny and a little scary...but ultimately predictable.

I mean, a lot of people my age, as I mentioned, hate our current PM. But they often don't really know why (other than vague statements about how he supports the US alliance and so on). Those that do know why fail to take the next step - they fail to compare him to previous leaders (such as Paul Keating), who, if one actually took the time to investigate - were responsible for dumping mountains of debt onto this country among other things.

So although I'm really talking about Australia there, I think a lot of that relates to the United States as well. These things always go through cycles. I'm sure there are plenty of young people who have some true awareness about political issues, but the most vocal ones seem to have very little historical or political perspective. So I often find that mildly amusing, mostly because from their view, they are perhaps seeing themselves as controversial visionaries or something. But from an outside view, they are just part of a cycle that occurs all the time - they are, in many respects, contradictory to the idea of real and lasting change, simply because of their sheep-like mentality.[/font]