A question of Free Speech

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I'm watching my local news right now and they mentioned a local school girl was told to take off her anti- Bush buttons (One said Fire the Liar) by a teacher's aide because they were disrupting class. Then she was told the aide was wrong and she could put the buttons back on.

Now my question is when is free speech too much?

For another example last week a group of Neo Nazis marched through a neighborhood in Toledo (?) Ohio. They claimed that they were protected by the first ammendment. Which is sad but true.

Hopefully the replies to this will be better thought out that the initial post. I'll try to find an article about the girl from here.

I think that free speech should be limited in cases where there could be problems. Like you shouldn't yell fire in a crowded place unless there really is a fire? It'd be nice to say you couldn't say something because it would hurt someone's feelings but that just isn't feesible.

So I guess just share your thoughts and comments? I haven't done this in a while[/color]

[Corey]

[size=1]Free speech is just that. Free speech.
If you don't like it, don't listen. No one is forcing you to do it.

In the specific case of yelling "fire" in a crowded area where there is no fire, that is not free speech, and is, in fact against the law. I'm trying to find the [i]actual[/i] law, but it's proving harder than expected. It has something to do with endangering the safety of others.[/size]

[Hevn]

I always thought that free speech should also come with responsibilty. If you know you're going to cause trouble or insult someone when you say something, then just don't say it out of respect. Some people are ultra sensitive and I've known crimes that were done because of stupid words said. Just use your words wisely.

[Red]

The problem with free speech lies in interpretation. Anybody could, and should, have any view they wish - how it's perceived by other people when they proclaim it is normally where difficulties stem.

I don't necessarily agree with a troupe of Neo-Nazi's repeating histories mistakes, but that's just my opinion. They have every right to voice their opinion under the idea of free speech, just like everybody else can have a go at things they don't agree with by using their own views.

[Adahn]

[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]The freedom to speak goes hand in hand with the freedom to ignore. Where do you draw the line? You've crossed the line when what you say cannot legally be ignored.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]As for everything else, if you can't ignore it, that's your problem.[/size][/font]

[Guest Warmaster]

... Whoa, sounds like some people here are bitter over something...

Freedom of speech is a basic right, but it can be *abused* and quite severely at that, surely at others' expense. The law tries to limit how it can be abused (such as, inciting violence), but unfortunately, there is a gray area there where the law has to tread carefully, lest it overstep the boundary where it sets a dangerous precedent of too-much-control. We've all (hopefully) read or seen movies about hypothetical dystopias where the government allows nearly no freedom of speech. Hopefully we all know of govenments that have in the past been guilty of the same.

Free speech is one of those things that has to be controlled, but the level of control has to be carefully considered and monitored. There are always people waiting to take advantage of either side of the situation (that is, some will abuse free speech, and some will abuse limitations of free speech), so no simple solution can really be reached.

[Nomura]

I think freedom to speak is one of the most important rights. I feel we should "Fire the Liar" who hasn't done crap for are country, and is way overdue a boycotting party to show up at his door. But there's alot of different ways to speak freely. Like in song. If you go around singing "American Idiot" all the time, you are speaking freely in sing song that Bush needs to go... Ahh, let's just get to me speaking freely...

1) Bush sucks(I hate kerry too)

2)Subsitutes(at my school) should be jumped

3) If your a bully to those who have done nothing to you, your apparentally jealous

4)Vote for Pedro(LOL)

5)God is the only god

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Adahn][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]The freedom to speak goes hand in hand with the freedom to ignore. Where do you draw the line? You've crossed the line when what you say cannot legally be ignored.

As for everything else, if you can't ignore it, that's your problem.[/size][/font][/QUOTE]
[size=1]I think you hit that on the head.

I'd probably give those Neo-Nazis the finger, though. As for the buttons in class, I don't think the teacher is allowed to do that, unless you signed some sort of agreement that stated that you can't wear political things to school [which I highly doubt].[/size]

[Nomura]

Good point, Retribution. Teachers like that shouldn't even be allowed to teach.

[celestialcharm]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid]In Civics my teacher taught us that we all have the right to freedom of speech, but as long as it's not hateful to others, like rascism and stuff, then it's against the law. I'm not to sure if I'm right but, I think she said something like that. I was only half paying attention in class.[/COLOR]

[Pumpkin]

[quote name='Nomura][SIZE=1][i]4)Vote for Pedro(LOL)[/SIZE'][/i][/quote][SIZE=1]Heck yes, vote for Pedro. On further note, like many above me have stated, [COLOR=#336699][i]Freedom of Speech is an important right but is lots of the time abused [/COLOR][/i] in ways it is more of a priveledge that we have then a right. If you look at it this way, most countries don't have a freedom of speech and your not allowed to critize your own governement or even talk about them. People abuse this right everyday, however, I do not think a girl wearing an anti-bush button is considered a limit.

That's her opinion and she's allowed to express that. As long as she isn't trying to create a rally to go burn down the white house or something crazy, it's harmless. That teacher just has too much time on her/his hands and obviously needs some attention. I don't agree with the Neo Natizms walking down the road and seriously think thats brinking the line because it involves discrimination, but others might view that different. If it gets to the point were they hurt people then that would be a violation. [/SIZE]

[Godelsensei]

There are limits to free speech. Preaching hate and intolerance is not encompassed by the right to free speech.

A Neo-Nazi demonstration is not something you simply have the "right to ignore" or a group "demonstrating their own opinion": it is a rallying cry for hatred and murder.

Free speech is legally a right. However, this does not hold true in practice; it is a [b]privilege.[/b] If you cannot handle the freedom to express your own opinion in a civil, responsible manner, it is your own fault and in most cases, it will come crashing down upon you in one way or another.

Additionally, I would like to point out that Neo-Nazi demonstrators ought to be [b]gunned down in the streets.[/b] People like that have no right to exist.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Godelsensei]Additionally, I would like to point out that Neo-Nazi demonstrators ought to be [b]gunned down in the streets.[/b'] People like that have no right to exist.[/quote]
[size=1]But aren't you just perpetuating the cycle of violence and hate by doing that? What makes you different from them? They shouldn't be gunned down in the streets. They shouldn't be allowed to express their racist and hateful sentiments. If they do, I think they should be eligible for jail time, but not murder.[/size]

[Gentle]

[SIZE=1]Well in the first ammendment, technically the girl should have been able to wear the button. But since our country is run by an idiot, it only stands for some people. I could stand in the White House right now and say, "These kids are getting on my nerves, I could just stab them." Perfect example of attempted murder and child abuse. But if I stood at the post office and said, "Bush sucks," FEDs would be all over me.

Whoever is being referred to makes the law important only to them. If you're not important, no one cares what you say or what people say they'll do to you.

Really it shouldn't matter because in democracy, the people are the highest ranked. But since we all can't speak, people are supposedly picked by us to speak for us. That's why this country will soon crumble.[/SIZE]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I would say that it is only logical that freedom of speech must be tempered with the wisdom and restraint to avoid abuse, however given the very nature of people wisdom and freedom of some description rarely go hand-in-hand. The levels of freedom of speech in different countries vary, and America seems to be the most generous with it's definitions of what you have the freedom to say.

In the case of the young girl in class I would say her buttons were perhaps closer to slander than normal speech though that does not given a teacher nor his/her aide the right to demand their removal so long as it does not disrupt the learning environment, and if they do disrupt said environment then I think the staff have the right to ask for the buttons removal.

As for the case with the Neo-Nazi's, such people prey on fear and ignorance and to ignore them is a test of character because those same poor misguided souls prey off the outrage and attention their ideals draw. As I have stated below I think there should be a law against those who advocate the ideals of hatred the Neo Nazi and other racist groups stand for.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Godelsensei]Additionally, I would like to point out that Neo-Nazi demonstrators ought to be [b]gunned down in the streets.[/b'] People like that have no right to exist.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]The right to exist is a far more fundamental right than the right to freedom of speech Godel, though for what that group preaches and stands for I do think there out to be a law against it.[/SIZE]

[Juu]

[quote name='Nomura']4)Vote for Pedro(LOL)[/quote]

Who's Pedro? I've asked several people wearing 'Vote for Pedro' shirts who he is and I don't think a single one has given me a response... I guess I'm the only one.

anyway.

Believing that free speech is truly an unalienable right is naive, if you ask me. As much as it's stated as a right in many countries, those with the authority to can censor enough to make people see what the the point of view they want them to see/believe.

[Corey]

[quote name='Juuthena']Who's Pedro? I've asked several people wearing 'Vote for Pedro' shirts who he is and I don't think a single one has given me a response... I guess I'm the only one.[/quote]
[size=1]It's from the movie Napoleon Dynamite. Not the best movie, but pretty fun when you've had a bit to drink.[/size]