Break Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 [SIZE=1]I couldn't stop myself laughing... when someone mentioned that the bible was compiled by... MONKS!! (sorry but I find that word funny) Anyway, Satan (the devil) is not actually called Satan, that is the modern name for a Fallen Angel. This Fallen Angel was called Lucifer, and I think, he was the first person that ever died and went up to heaven as an angel. In heaven he did wrong and was banished from heaven and lost his wings, he hurtled through the skies of heaven and crashed through the ground into the center of the earth. This is where Lucifer The Fallen plotted his "revenge" against God. Every bad and wicked person, instead of God taking them, Lucifer took them for his evil doings. That is what I have read/heard/belive. I am not being a blasphemer or disrespectful in any way when I say this; but who thinks that it would be cool to make your own religon... or follow the Jedi religon... Cool methinks :cool:[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by liamc2 [/i] [B] faith can exist outside religion yes, but faith is derived from religion [/B][/QUOTE] youv'e got it backwards....religon is dervived from faith....for if we essentally had no faith then religon wouldn't exsist at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Freedom Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] There is NO proof of God's existance. Just unexplained things. Like how the world was made, etc... doesn't mean there is god, just unexplained... you don't know, God isn't always the obvious answer. The one thing I don't get..... Why are there so many different religions that worship only one God.... kinda makes it all sound pretty stupid to me... Did God tell you all to worship him differently? I mean what? Is he playing some funny joke to make you all look like pathetic fools? God told you to call him 3,000 different names, have 300 books, and has said beyond imaginable things to many different people... Why do we have religions?.... Why can't you just believe in God and leave it at that.... I don't think God cares, as long as you believe in him.... Sorry, I just find it funny that so many different things and one god... Someone must have made it all up except the one right one... who knows which one is the right one, for all you know, YOU could be the false believer.... and you'll never know.... some mind candy for you. [/B][/QUOTE] Sorry I love ya Transtic but I cant agree but I will be blunt. No disrespect but you can compare what you said about worshipping God differently to how people love. You can love a girl or guy or both intimately and no one judges you for that in fact that is a very intruiging part of you, but if your a guy and you love a guy thats different than the social standard but its not stupid. Niether is wordhipping the same god differently. Its apart of that person and that persons culture and no one has any right to down that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamc2 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 hmmm, what? I must have been typing and not thinking. *Starts singing primary songs* 'Faith is like a little seed, if planted it will grow . . . ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Wild Freedom [/i] [B] Sorry I love ya Transtic but I cant agree but I will be blunt. No disrespect but you can compare what you said about worshipping God differently to how people love. You can love a girl or guy or both intimately and no one judges you for that in fact that is a very intruiging part of you, but if your a guy and you love a guy thats different than the social standard but its not stupid. Niether is wordhipping the same god differently. Its apart of that person and that persons culture and no one has any right to down that. [/B][/QUOTE] I completely understand that. And essentially I do agree... I wasn't saying it's wrong or socially unacceptable to have different religions worshipping the same God I was asking Why do people do that?.... when it comes to love... If you are a guy and you love a woman you are heterosexual, it's how you feel, thats a reason why. A guy loves a guy, you are homosexual, it's how you feel and thats a reason why..... but to form 3,000 different religions to worship the same god, I don't see why that happened... Peopel didn't like Catholosism? I suppose thats how Luthernism was formed.... Because he didn't like like the way the church ran things... I suppsoe thats a good enough reason, but it would be fine if there were 2 or 3 religions, but there's hundred! it's almost ridiculous... Buts thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Freedom Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 I understand completely!!! Im Baptist myself but people are people and everyone has a different way to express themself towards there God. There are billions of people in the world and if they all created there own religion I could see how that would be unreasonable but in that respect 3000 isnt that mush and its good to see that atleast some peopl have a common ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B] I'd rather not go into some huge spew on why I refuse to believe the bible.... but I'll just say a few brief things; The bible contradicts itself on more than one occation and it's written by human, whether inspired by God or not, I could care less, it is still bound to be flawed, which is why it has contradictions. [/B][/QUOTE] Why, you stole the words out of my mouth...That has been my belief for as long as I can remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kizu [/i] [B] If you don't belive in God then why is your avatar a picture of what most pictures have of Jesus? btw- God's name is "Father, Holy Spirit, and Son (son aka Jesus)". They are all god. He is three different people. [/B][/QUOTE] Ahhh, the ole' Trinity Question, eh? Well if God is Jesus, God, and The Holy Spirit, when Jesus was babtised, how did Jesus throw his voice into the air and say that he was his son????:confused: And in Acts 7:55,56 it says: that Jesus was standing on the right hand of God....How can that be, if they are all rolled up into one??:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 eheh I like that question SSJ2....It has always confused the hell out of me...along with this question....why is Jesus the only son of god?...arn't we all in a way...?...and...who are we to judge and say what gods will is...?..... man...no one reads my post *cries*....oh wells....anyways I will continue from my last post...I think the 10 commandments are wrong...to an extent... They are to "Black and White" for a world of "Grey"....take for example "Thou shall not steal"....way to black and white...for what if I am starving with a family...and I can't get the food for one reason or another....would I not be in right to steal food for my family to survive!?!....and you can't answer...god will supply you....because if that's true then why in 'ell dosn't he help all those others that are starving....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]eheh I like that question SSJ2....It has always confused the hell out of me...along with this question....why is Jesus the only son of god?...arn't we all in a way...?...and...who are we to judge and say what gods will is...?..... [/B][/QUOTE] Well LDS don't believe in the trinity. We believe they are all seperate beings, just one in [b]cause.[/b] And no Jesus isn't the only son of God, he is just the Only Begotten Son of God. And in the Book of Mormon...in Jacob 7:14 it says: "And I said unto him: What am I that I should tempt God to show unto thee a sign in the thing which thou knowest to be true? Yet thou wilt deny it, because thou art of the Devil. Nevertheless, not my will be done; but if God shall smite thee, let that be a sign ynto thee that Christ shall come. And thy will, O Lord, be done, and not mine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SSJ2 Gohu [/i] [B] Well LDS don't believe in the trinity. We believe they are all seperate beings, just one in [b]cause.[/b] And no Jesus isn't the only son of God, he is just the Only Begotten Son of God. And in the Book of Mormon...in Jacob 7:14 it says: "And I said unto him: What am I that I should tempt God to show unto thee a sign in the thing which thou knowest to be true? Yet thou wilt deny it, because thou art of the Devil. Nevertheless, not my will be done; but if God shall smite thee, let that be a sign ynto thee that Christ shall come. And thy will, O Lord, be done, and not mine." [/B][/QUOTE] That comes from a book...and it dosn't help it is one written by humans...It only reinforces my question....who are we to believe we can possiblly claim to speak any "gods/dess" will? The quote you gave me merely proves that humans presume to much....but then again my question might be taken wrongly...as a human and an american I believe I have the right to question whatever I want....what I mean by my question is that, If their is a god/dess or a higher power...Who/How are/can we to claim to have the only/right answer to his/her/it's will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B] That comes from a book...and it dosn't help it is one written by humans...It only reinforces my question....who are we to believe we can possiblly claim to speak any "gods/dess" will? The quote you gave me merely proves that humans presume to much....but then again my question might be taken wrongly...as a human and an american I believe I have the right to question whatever I want....what I mean by my question is that, If their is a god/dess or a higher power...Who/How are/can we to claim to have the only/right answer to his/her/it's will? [/B][/QUOTE] Well the Book of Mormon, unlike the Bible, hasn't been changed from it original version(except when translated by Joseph Smith). And the quote I quoted was from a Prophet of God, Jacob, who was called of God to serve him. He saw God, many times, as did his father, Lehi, his brother, Nephi, and son, Enos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 or claims to....anyway even if guided by god humans make errors...so what you quoted is in all liklihood errored...and it is still a book...I could write a book and pass it for something real....*shrugs* I don't have that need to though....Humans to all of us are flawed...if you ask me they are perfect....well so far as I know anyways...Where would the fun be in being perfect...and we would be a lot less interesting...but that's not the point...because humans are flawed just about everything humans make are going to be flawed...I have a feeling even the revered Jesus screwed up once or twice...and I got a quote from your own books that kinda curse your religon...didn't Jesus say....Do no worship me but worship the one who gives me the power...or something like that...I don't know the exact words...anyways you guys are kinda contridicting your own "lords" words...for he didn't want to be worshipped at all...I also think that Jesus coulda been a profet but that his teachings have been deluded with time... but who knows...maybe we should stop worrying bout the past and just look to the future...for all of us who believe "learn from history less you repeat your mistakes"....take a long look at history...humanity look doomed to never learn it's mistakes...course a miracle might happen...*smacks himself* Blasphamy!!...eheh j/k I think miracles happen...just their inaccted by the human spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B] youv'e got it backwards....religon is dervived from faith....for if we essentally had no faith then religon wouldn't exsist at all... [/B][/QUOTE] Someone understands me! I agree with you completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Goin back to the faith question... Why is it that humans want to put faith in what they do not know exists? (ie: God).... Why not put faith in what you do know exists..... Yourself... Are we too afraid of ourselves? Why don't we put faith in ourselves? We do not trust in our own selves? I put alot of faith in myself... i believe I will lead my life and that I will make the right choices and that God will guide me through my own actions. Not base my actions off of "God's word" in some book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]Goin back to the faith question... Why is it that humans want to put faith in what they do not know exists? (ie: God).... Why not put faith in what you do know exists..... Yourself... Are we too afraid of ourselves? Why don't we put faith in ourselves? We do not trust in our own selves? I put alot of faith in myself... i believe I will lead my life and that I will make the right choices and that God will guide me through my own actions. Not base my actions off of "God's word" in some book. [/B][/QUOTE] Because "Faith is trusting in things which are not seen which are true." To find out if it is true you must Pray. Like Joseoh Smith did. Pray and ask with a broken heart and contrite spirt, if it is true. I have done that I know that there is a God. That the Bible and the Book of Mormon are true, I have read both all the way through. and halfway on my second time. I challenge everyone, if they have any questions, to get on your knees and pray, and ask for the answers to your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 ..Been their...done that....still don't believe it...I won't readly commit myself to a greater being anyways...I believe that we all make our own choices...no matter what...religon to me is just a way for people to cop out things, to make themselves feel better about the truth, to attmept to explain the unexplainable, and an interesting if not meaningless discusion...I hope that dosn't sound rude...The only meaning this discusion has is that we learn more about our fellow humans...and I guess that is important...besides that it is useless... anyway SSJ2 does have a point TN...Faith is trusting in something you cannot see or prove is true...I don't believe I will live a good life...I know I will...even if it dosn't live up to others standerds as long as I make the descions in my life then it is good enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamc2 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 well yes you have a point, it is [I]our[/I] choice what we do on earth we believe that god sent us here to test us. He asked for someone to do it, Satan offered and said that we would all pass the test because he would force us to follow his rule. Jesus however said that he would make it [I]our[/I] choice of what we do on earth. This is called free agency, what we do on earth is remembered, and when the time comes we will be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 ok and here is one more question.....Where in hell do we get the idea we matter?....This isn't the most...happy...of thoughts...but think about it for just a second....Where do we get the idea we mean anything at all?...We could be wiped out completely and the universe wouldn't give a D*nm...It would just keep on going...Life would come somewhere else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I'm not sure, but the fact that we can influence things might have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]ok and here is one more question.....Where in hell do we get the idea we matter?....This isn't the most...happy...of thoughts...but think about it for just a second....Where do we get the idea we mean anything at all?...We could be wiped out completely and the universe wouldn't give a D*nm...It would just keep on going...Life would come somewhere else... [/B][/QUOTE] We're matter, and everything is matter. Everything created for their own purpose, including human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 maybe....but my point is...if you get right down to it we don't matter...to us...sure we do...to the galaxy...nope....Humans are like a pestalince streched across a planet...almost...We consume this planets rescources and do nothing for it in return...but that is off my point...Humans don't matter to the universe...If we all die off...would the universe care?...I don't think so...It will merely adjust, and grow life else where...I mean look at histroy...our greatest teacher...what have we done?...nothing...we have advanced forward in technology and increased our life spans...thats about it on the positive side...on the negative...learened to kill ourselves faster, Damaged this planet, drained it resources, overcrowded it...but then again...we have to ask ourselves does it even matter...Huamns may one day span space if we keep from killing ourselves long enough...but what's the point? to say that we could...besides that? nothing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]maybe....but my point is...if you get right down to it we don't matter...to us...sure we do...to the galaxy...nope....Humans are like a pestalince streched across a planet...almost...We consume this planets rescources and do nothing for it in return...but that is off my point...Humans don't matter to the universe...If we all die off...would the universe care?...I don't think so...It will merely adjust, and grow life else where...I mean look at histroy...our greatest teacher...what have we done?...nothing...we have advanced forward in technology and increased our life spans...thats about it on the positive side...on the negative...learened to kill ourselves faster, Damaged this planet, drained it resources, overcrowded it...but then again...we have to ask ourselves does it even matter...Huamns may one day span space if we keep from killing ourselves long enough...but what's the point? to say that we could...besides that? nothing.... [/B][/QUOTE] That's one way to look at it. Looking back at our history, human created many things, good or bad. If those things weren't invented, we wouldn't be what we are today, may be we don't even know about the unviverse. You said if we die off, would the unvinerse care. You can look at it this way, the universe is an island, and we're part of the big island, small, but significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Before I forget... I think Anti asked this question. The first bible was written in ancient greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anti [/i] [B]maybe....but my point is...if you get right down to it we don't matter...to us...sure we do...to the galaxy...nope....Humans are like a pestalince streched across a planet...almost...We consume this planets rescources and do nothing for it in return...but that is off my point...Humans don't matter to the universe...If we all die off...would the universe care?...I don't think so...It will merely adjust, and grow life else where...I mean look at histroy...our greatest teacher...what have we done?...nothing...we have advanced forward in technology and increased our life spans...thats about it on the positive side...on the negative...learened to kill ourselves faster, Damaged this planet, drained it resources, overcrowded it...but then again...we have to ask ourselves does it even matter...Huamns may one day span space if we keep from killing ourselves long enough...but what's the point? to say that we could...besides that? nothing.... [/B][/QUOTE] Well, you say this, but people here have said that they are above believing in something higher?? It's contradicting. You're exactly right, humans are mere and miniscule against our universe and other universes yet discovered. So, where is human's place in feeling superior to anything?? Humans in their natural state are not so wonderful as a lot of people would like to think. Humans are not beyond the need of help. Any who are too prideful for the reliance on something that is surely greater than we are is naive and cannot see a greater picture. However we are not "nothing", we are something and we are part of a plan. Our part is not finished yet, and the plan is not a short one. And, I believe it was you who said something like, 'who can claim the right to answer God's will' or whatever. The ONLY people EVER who have had the proper and correct authority to be God's seer and revelator are His prophets. God knows all, and he knew that the bible would eventually fall into the wrong hands and become imperfect over time. Now, He could have very easily put out his hand and prevented the evil people or whoever from doing that, but then he would have intervened with our agency, which is what enables us to grow, in making our own decisions: good or bad, and suffering the consequences. I don't have any doubt that the real, unaltered versions of the various prophets' records were true, without flaw. Why? If they themselves were to have flawed His work, then He would have stopped it, since it was a direct partnership between the two, and therefore God would have had every place to do so. But direct intervention with the corruption of doctrine pretty much stops there. I mean yeah, God most certainly could have stopped all people from corrupting the ancient records of the bible and everything would be la-de-da now, but then there would be no opposition. Opposition is how we humans grow. I have said before, maybe in other threads, that there are more than just one text out there. One has already been translated and is known as the Book of Mormon. What makes this without flaw of doctrine? God would not allow it. He would not allow his prophets that were on ancient America, who wrote records that compile into the Book of Mormon, to defile or error insomuch that His message would be distorted. If this were the case, in which God would foresee anyway, he would have it be that His record in some way or another be to [i]His[/i] liking, the truth. Since the actual text called the Book of Mormon is true, and it has transcibed once, meaning it hasn't gone through a slew of 'all-knowing' scholars who threw in their two cents, it is still in its original state of truth. Now, the B of M has been translated to different languages, but it is still pure, because if the translations began to become corrupt by human error, God would have it stopped, by some means. We have a prophet today, and this would be possible. In essence, the true will of God is expressed by His prophets. They do see and speak to God and Jesus Christ, so they would know better than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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