Males and Females

[Adahn]

[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]I know we've had threads like this before, but I have an excuse for this one. For my statistics class, I need to take a random sample of at least size 40 for a population. I'm not a very social creature, so taking the survey from a forum is much easier than taking one from the students at my college.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]So, all you forumgoers, please help me out here, and participate in my harmless little poll. Since I'm asking such a simple question, I don't expect there to be any bias in the answers.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]In order to generate a discussion, I have a question for you.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]What does it mean to be a male or female to you? You may compare yourself with the opposite sex if you desire, though it isn't necessary.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Being a man, I see myself as capable of fighting. I also think that if I were engaged in combat with a woman roughly my age, I would be able to defeat that woman effortlessly. Women are structured to be physically weak in America. There are exceptions, but not enough for me to think that more than 1% of the female population could fight me and win.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Mentally, I don't see myself as inferior or superior to women, in general. Everyone has a fair chance to be intelligent, and I can't judge people by their sex.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Being a man means I will get a job, make money, and support a family. I will protect my family, and raise my children with my wife. My wife will be my equal, a complement to me that will complete me. Without her, despite my strength, I am not whole. Physical strength is my claim as a man. All other strengths depend on the person.[/size][/font]
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[Guest Hizuara]

[SIZE=1]So far I'm the only female who's voted 0___o

To me being a woman is important, yeah. I know I'm not physically stronger then most guys, so I rely alot on my mental strength. Not to say that I'm SMARTER then guys or anything, just that if I where to fight them, I'd hold my own better in a battle of wits.

In my family we're pretty matriarchal. Whatever my Mom says, goes. So in my future I might very well be bossing my husband and kids around.. ^^;

Also, as a girl I can wear pretty makeup and accessories! ^o^[/SIZE]

[Guest kuroinuyoukai]

Ok so here goes. I don't fit the usually woman description. I don't wear makeup or frilly things. I AM howecer a nurturer and most people(even the ones I have just met) always tell me their issues. I don't mind that. I don't focus on being a woman so much as I focus on being a decent human being. I would love to find that certain guy(I am like any other woman in that aspect)-but I would fight any man who tried to beat me down. I am not very strong in the arm division- but i can leg press about 350 lbs! My husband(should I choose to accept that mission) would be my equal and that being said if I hit him-he can hit me. I don't know if this is what you wanted-Adahn! :catgirl:

[Stark]

I'm a girl, but not a typical girl--I'm a bit on the tomboyish side, refuses to wear make up/skirts/dresses et cetera, and even went as far as to cut my hair really REALLY short.

In spite of being a tomboy, however, I'm really short. Because of this I know I can never hold my own in an actual fight with a guy. Still, I try to focus on my mental abilities more than my physical ones. I like taking the interesting classes (You're in Statiistics, I'm in Sociology) because I feel that I can at least accomplish something worth while with what knowledge I gain.

Still, I find myself getting too emotional at times--a fact that I blame in part to the regular hormonal fluctuations that accompany a girl's physiology. I'm not saying that any other way, so deal with the academic jargon, okay?

Anywho, if I do decide to get married, it'll be to someone who I can move toe to toe with--and someone who doesn't decide to carry me around just for the fun of it. There needs to be some degree of respect between us, and a comfort level too.

Career-wise, I think it should be fairly equal in who earns how much money. Same goes with chores around the house--unless he's a much better cook than I am.

Children? It's not something I've considered for my future--I'd hate to see little children running around driving me crazy like I do my parents. Besides, I have some issues that have a genetic basis (very fair skin, very light eyes) and I don't want any possible kids to constantly worry about sunburn/photophobia like I have to.

Besides all this, many more opportunities are opening up for women within the past several years. It's even construed that a couple of women will run for the next Presidential election!

[Ezekiel]

[SIZE=1](Oh my, seems we're lacking on the male side here)

As a female in this modern world. I often feel that I want to prove myself to be independent and totally able to take care of myself. I wouldn't be like this if I knew I couldn't handle a situation. As me, personally, not just my gender, I'm more intelligent than a lot of my male friends and stronger. I've taken martial arts for around four/five years and I'm in very good shape. I feel it is important for people to know that as a female, I'm not part of the weaker sex.

For example: When I first go out to dinner with my boyfriend, I will insist (have insisted, actually) that I pay at least half of the bill. It's a thing with me; I feel that paying half would show the man I'm with that I am just as capable as he is.

I like being female, but I don't consider either sex to be superior. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this on the Boards before, but it's something I fall back on with gender discussions, 'Each sex has their weaknesses and strengths, men couldn't do some things without women and women couldn't do things without men. It all evens out.'[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] As a female, I know that America is still a male-dominant society. Families in which the mother takes care of the children and the father works is the norm for me, although I whole-heartedly support working mothers and families where the father takes cares of the children and the mother works. The only thing that will make me mad about the male-dominant society in America is when women get screwed over when it comes to equal paychecks, guys who think that it's a woman's place to stay at home and cook/clean/take care of children and won't let her to do anything else, and... more stuff like that.

Women and men are superior and inferior to each other in different ways, but they can't live without each other. Being either sex has its benefits, but sometimes I'm just really glad I'm a girl. We can be just as smart/smarter and often times more sensible than men, and our society today is showing it. Women are becoming more than 50% of the populations in many colleges, and our media portrays many strong female leads.

But just the way a lot of females act really annoy me at times as well. A lot of girls are just into the whole gossiping and sneaky bullying thing, and it's just pretty irritating. You don't really see a lot of guys becoming anorexic/committing suicide because they're peers are pressuring them.[/color]

[Bloodseeker]

[quote name='Adahn][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Being a man, I see myself as capable of fighting. I also think that if I were engaged in combat with a woman roughly my age, I would be able to defeat that woman effortlessly. Women are structured to be physically weak in America. There are exceptions, but not enough for me to think that more than 1% of the female population could fight me and win.[/size'][/font][/quote]

1. The idea that you can beat up a girl isn't something to be proud of. Only the weakest guys would get their ***** beat by your average girl.

2. "Defeat" her in "combat"? This isn't an anime or a D&D session. Bad choice of words.

3. I think that you're forgetting that more than one percent of the female population either knows real martial arts or are on enough steroids to be just as strong as your average guy.

As for me, I'm a guy. I really don't see any significance in that alone though... Though I guess that it might have something to do with my being as cynical as I am.

[Pumpkin]

[SIZE=1]Being female to me is important because I look back on how much women have struggled throughout history. In a lot of religions (and I'm not saying this to spite religious folks) women were made last and men are considered inferior. I don't think men have gone through as much trouble as women but still that doesn't mean I think we are "better or anything". I think that equality has gotten better (despite their are still the stereotypes of women being weak if they are thin) but the only thing I can't stand is when [i]women try and be "blonde" or "ditzy" because they think it's cute and attracts men[/i]. There is nothing cute about being stupid. I also think we have more pressure to look good because we're the "beautiful" gender. Some things make me mad, but all in all, I wouldn't trade being a woman. The good thing is I can be independent in this generation and do what I want to do, and not follow the stereotypical "stay at home mom" role if I don't want too.

[quote name='Stark'] (You're in Statiistics, I'm in Sociology) [/quote]
Just thought this was funny since I'm in Soc 2, it's pretty interesting. Just thought I'd state that for some reason ^^ [/SIZE]

[celestialcharm]

[COLOR=Purple][quote name='Lunox][color=darkslateblue'] You don't really see a lot of guys becoming anorexic/committing suicide because they're peers are pressuring them.[/color][/quote]

When women are anorexic to fit this image of a 'perfect women' it pisses me off! I hate how they feel they need to be skinny to get a guy. My cousin tried to commit suicide because of her peers and such! There's just so much pressure on us.

Now, about me, I'm female. My mom was the one who was working in my house, and my dad I would say is a stay at home dad. My mom is the one who makes most of the desicions and stuff.

To me, being female yes I can do practically anything guys can do, but I still have a disadvantage(but don't we all?) Yes, I can bear kids, but I can't even go out without my parents worrying. My parents act differently with my brother than my sisters and I. He is able to stay out pretty late, but they act like we're doing something when we stay out late. I also got a lecture a couple days ago because my mom saw one of my girl friend's in the mall who was hugging her guy friend. My friend even said hi to my mom (not ignoring her but acknowledging her presence) , but my mom over reacted. She came home to complain to me, and said I shouldn't be doing those things. I bet if I was caught hugging a guy friend other than a family relation, they'd think I was pregnant! So, anyways, my mom and dad lectured me about how, 'This is how things start! First it's hugging, then it's getting yourself into trouble!" :rolleyes: I bet if it was one of my brother's friend's they wouldn't say anything.

Maybe, it's just how they were raised. But, being a female also means that I can choose to get married, could choose if I want to be a stay at home mom or work if I have kids and have a right to an education. Also, the right to vote when I'm of age! :cool:[/COLOR]

[Adahn]

Very nice replies, and thanks to everyone who voted!

kuroinuyoukai, I just started the thread, and all I want is for people to speak freely;). Don't worry about things I've said about myself, just say what you feel.

Stark, believe it or not, I'm also in a Sociology class this term. It's part of an honors class that is half-taught by a psychologist, and half-taught by a sociologist, to give the students a broader perspective on ideas concerning the self and the other.

Bloodseeker, I stand by my statement.

[Quote=Bloodseeker]
1. The idea that you can beat up a girl isn't something to be proud of. Only the weakest guys would get their ***** beat by your average girl.[/quote]
I didn't say I was proud of it, I said it was the one area I can see myself as superior to women in general.

[Quote=Bloodseeker]
2. "Defeat" her in "combat"? This isn't an anime or a D&D session. Bad choice of words.[/quote]
No, it's a good choice of words. The only situation where I would engage a woman would be if that woman intended to kill me. That's the only situation where true fighting can take place.

[Quote=Bloodseeker]
3. I think that you're forgetting that more than one percent of the female population either knows real martial arts or are on enough steroids to be just as strong as your average guy.[/quote]
I explicitly stated that the woman would have to be roughly my age (19). While your statement about martial arts and steroids [i]may[/i] be true of the entire female population, I believe my estimate of 1% is fair for my age group, if not a little generous.

It seems to me that you've taken serious offense to what I've said. Perhaps you could better explain to me why my statements offend you so?

It seems we have some Sociologists here, so I might as well go in more depth. In class, we just finished reading an article titled "Cultural dopes and she-devils" which is concerned with plastic surgery, calling it an 'idealogical dilemma'. The article is a very interesting Geertzian analysis of how women come to see themselves as 'not normal', and make themselves the 'exception', justifying their decision to alter their image at great pain to their body and self.

Also, you may find the videos/articles called 'killing us softly' interesting in the construction of feminine beauty through advertising.

I would be happy to discuss your understanding of femininity (or masculinity) based on what you have studied in Sociology class.

[Gentle]

[SIZE=1]I see one difference that makes me a woman and that is that I can bare children. There are other things I can say but I have no way to explain them out because of my bland and tasteless mind.

End.[/SIZE]

[Ikillion]

[COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman]Hm..Lets see now what I think regards me as a male.. Well the only thing that I can really disgunish from a male and female is handwriting. I mean the issue with handwriting might be more trait to see. I mean I think although my handwriting is readable. Its will pretty much take you a long time to try to tell what a certain letter is from another. I mean its not with EVERY female on this world because my girlfriend's handwriting is almost as bad as mine is.

I am sorta proud of my inteligence as well. I dont even know where it is on my computer anymore but I remember seeing an article on how that I am not sure of the exact percent but it was that there are more females taking up the college positions than males. I can see that being that my mom is an Electrical Engineer who has alot of co workers under her command. Being that the field of that is mostly a male dominated job spot, alot of her co workers really dont like her. They just...arnt nice.

The one VERY steryotypical thing that I dont like about males since I myself am one is the whole. "I must have a six pack to get all of the girls durring school," or "If I am on the football team then I am instantly popular". I mean thats not true in my eyes. I met the most beautiful person in my eyes at an anime club meeting. You dont have to be the strongest or the fastest or the smartest at whatever. I just treasure my intelect...and thats basicly about it.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Delta]

[SIZE=1]There you go, Adahn. Forty respondents and it seems like a tie.

I'm very much like my father in terms of humor and interests that I could very well be the son he's longed for. But I do love being a woman. I wear heels, lipgloss and anything pink but I visit the shooting gallery in a skirt and cannot stand going out in the field without wearing my favorite dangling earrings. It's those little quirks that I am known for and which I cannot do if my soul was trapped in a man's body.

[quote name='Adahn'] Also, you may find the videos/articles called 'killing us softly' interesting in the construction of feminine beauty through advertising.[/quote]There's been a recent survey here in Asia about women and the perception of beauty. Asked if they're contented with their looks, some 87% of respondents here in the Philippines answered "yes." That's one of the highest in Asia, yeah? In the same survey, it turns out that less than five-percent said that they would be considered "lovely" if the standard for beauty is what's seen on TV. Pretty glaring difference, yeah?

Link:[url=http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20050918x4.htm]Complexities of beauty[/url]

So yeah. Men of OB, [b]it wouldn't hurt to compliment women around you on how they look[/b]. It's good for our self-esteem and you'll earn brownie points for the effort as well. ;)[/SIZE]

[Sandy]

I think it's absurd to talk about [I]fighting[/I] when the issue is men and women. I mean, who even [I]fights[/I] in modern times, if you count out children, criminals and looneys?

To me, bragging with the ability to "beat up" somebody is a sign of utter idiocy, not manlihood or anything else.

As for me, I behave more like girls than boys, despite being male. I guess it has something to do with my sexual orientation, but I'm by no means one of those pink-glad fairy stereotypes. I'm not into sports or cars or gambling, I don't drink or smoke or try to "act cool" in any way (although it can be debated if these are truly masculine charasteristics or not). I'm actually pretty average guy, at least from the outside.

Nearly all my friends are females, and I grew up with a female-dominant environment, so I do get the whole feminine way of thinking - I just don't think like that, really.

I'd prefer to stay away from the stereotypes, I want to see each person as a unique individual, not just manly men or feminine women. Sometimes I just can't help it, though, and I fall into shallow thinking (most often its "straight men are [I]such[/I] pigs!"). :P

But nevertheless I'd encourage to people to see members of the opposite sex as individuals too, and not judge the whole half of the human population by the acts of few.

Then I'd like to comment on few of your statements:

[B]Delta[/B], do you realize that by advicing men to compliment women about their looks, you are only supporting the pressure of looks that so many women have? I think both men and women should give compliments to each other when they see it fit - men have issues with their self-esteem as well, although they may not bring it up as loudly as women.

[B]Lunox[/B], you said that neither sex can live without each other. That's not exactly true, you are forgetting us sexual minorities. But I assume you meant they can't [I]exist[/I] without each other, which is very true - as of now, both male and female sexual cells are needed in order to conceive a child. ;) Maybe some scientific research in the future is able to bypass that, but probably not for a very long time.

[Magus]

Being a male.... Let's see. I don't know.... I like to think men and women are equal. So I don't believe in the "men runs the household or women are suppose to let the men work while they take care of the house". If anything I respect women more so than men. I guess it's because all the fellas I've been around tends to want to play the "bad boy" role. Thinking they can get away with almost anything.

I don't believe in hitting girls, but I wouldn't stand there to let them pound on me either.

Physical features or whatever. Probably like almost any other male that cares about being healthy, I like to stay fit and play some good ole football / basketball. Although in basketball, I've noticed a lot of changes within the males. They tend to whine alot. Whined more so than females. (No offense to the women because back when I was in middle and high school, I was around alot of females that whined constantly) Haven't had / played a friendly game of basketball in a long time.

For me being a male I guess the only difference between me and many other men / males is that I just don't care. (About most things that happens around me in general.) That and probably the whole pride issue. I have little pride, and hardly anything motivates me.... Your not so typical loner that gets along with everyone. (I'd like to consider myself a laid-back loner :cool: )

[Adahn]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Good, I have enough in the poll! I won't close it though, because it just had to be [i]at least[/i] 40.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=2]Very interesting article, Delta. I have relatives from the Phillipines (My aunt is a native, and my cousins are half-filipino). It makes me glad to know that there are places where women don't stress over their appearance.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=2]Poor, misguided Sandy. I only identified the one difference I see between males and females (physical strength) in terms of ability. It is an observation, and not one I'm bragging about. I see women, and their bodies just scream "weak, vulnerable, helpless." It is not their fault, it's our society's. Don't get so beat up about my statement. Your aversion to it says more about you than it does me.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=2]As for Delta's bolded statement about compliments, I think it was a good piece of advice. The reason women fret about how they look is a mixture between their perception of themselves, and the perceptions of others. If you compliment a women about her appearance, it will make her feel better about herself. Sure, it will make her want to continue looking good, which is what you have an aversion to. It will also let her know that she doesn't need to change (i.e. plastic surgery, liposuction). If you let women know that they are beautiful, it will help them to see themselves that way.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=2]I'm sure there are many social factors at work in the Phillipines, but I also believe that the wealth of compliments heaped on women there has a drastic effect on their self-esteem. Our culture's construction of femininity, however, is based on an unrealistic ideal of beauty meant to keep women in a perpetual state of low self-esteem. If you dish out heartfelt, honest compliments occasionally, you are doing your part to combat the injustices women face in their daily lives.[/size][/font]
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[Red]

[quote]No, it's a good choice of words. The only situation where I would engage a woman would be if that woman intended to kill me. That's the only situation where true fighting can take place.[/quote]

'True' fighting? Fighting is fighting, there's no true kind.

[quote]I explicitly stated that the woman would have to be roughly my age (19). While your statement about martial arts and steroids [i]may[/i] be true of the entire female population, I believe my estimate of 1% is fair for my age group, if not a little generous.[/quote]

From where I'm sitting, it looks incredibly male biased & very judgemental of a woman's physical ability. My 'estimate' would be far beyond that, but neither of us can really know until you line up every 19 year old woman in your country and fight them one by one. Due to the fact that I can't pull random statistics from the air, I would place a rather large bet on more than 1% being able to win instead.

I used to regularly spar with girls many years my junior, and they kicked my backside all over the place. Fighting ability is not decided by your physical prowess, nor sex. Yes, men & women are born with certain genetic attributes that initially seperate them, but that 'gap' has been proven easy to overcome.

As a man,being a man to me means having a dangly bit to worry about when naive young relatives decide to kick me somewhere, whereas the opposite sex doesn't. There's nothing I can do that a woman couldn't do better, or the same.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Adahn][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Being a man, I see myself as capable of fighting. I also think that if I were engaged in combat with a woman roughly my age, I would be able to defeat that woman effortlessly. Women are structured to be physically weak in America. There are exceptions, but not enough for me to think that more than 1% of the female population could fight me and win.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Mentally, I don't see myself as inferior or superior to women, in general. Everyone has a fair chance to be intelligent, and I can't judge people by their sex.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Being a man means I will get a job, make money, and support a family. I will protect my family, and raise my children with my wife. My wife will be my equal, a complement to me that will complete me. Without her, despite my strength, I am not whole. Physical strength is my claim as a man. All other strengths depend on the person.[/size][/font]
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[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Yeah, I'll pretty much give you an Amen on that. I don't really pride myself on my strength, but ... you get the point.

I hope that my wife wants to be my equal - that's how my mother and father operate. There's no male dominance or anything - they both politely listen to the other's opinions, and then they compromise.

But I don't feel like I need a woman to complete me; I can operate just fine on my own. I mean, I'd be lonely, but I don't crave a relationship. I think that's a good thing in a person. When I come across someone who's emotionally dependent on another, I just have that feeling that they're going to crumble when (not if) the relationship ends. I've seen it so many times before.

Women could rule the world, if only they knew the power they possessed. :p [/size]

[Caesura]

[size=1]I noticed that its mostly females who responded to this post.

Being female to me can mean a lot of many things, and none of this is said to be sexist or cause an arguement. It means being just a tad more analytical of just about everything that you come across daily, I know that when someone looks my way it throws me into a two hour analysis as to if it was a good, bad, i want you, you make me sick, ect. look.

It means knowing what you've got, and being proud of it, we may be the physically inferior sex most of the time, but we're also more physically attractive. It means being intoverted when it comes to guys trying to figure us out or I have a problem, and being extroverted when i'm feeling crazy, which is most of the time. It means being extremely opinionated, even when your opinion isn't needed.

We bear children, we ****** or get sick before, during, and after our menstral cycles, leaving a total of one week of pleasent-ness from us. Thats what being female is all about, Lol.[/size]

[Adahn]

[quote name='Red']'True' fighting? Fighting is fighting, there's no true kind.[/quote]Fighting for your life and fighting because you're angry are different. I'm speaking of the former, where (for whatever reason) the situation involves my opponent's intent to kill me.

[QUOTE=Red]
From where I'm sitting, it looks incredibly male biased & very judgemental of a woman's physical ability. My 'estimate' would be far beyond that, but neither of us can really know until you line up every 19 year old woman in your country and fight them one by one. Due to the fact that I can't pull random statistics from the air, I would place a rather large bet on more than 1% being able to win instead.[/QUOTE]As 'male-biased' and 'judgmental' as my statement is, I believe it to be true. The point is that women are constructed to be weak in our society. If I had things my way, my future wife and my sister would be as strong as I am. I see women as vulnerable because American society forces them to be vulnerable. They cannot survive socially in our country if they do not succumb to feminine ideals.

If this obsession with feminine weakness were not a part of our culture, I would estimate that no less than 25% of women my age would be able to hold their own against me. Genetics plays a role in the construction of women as weak, but our society's role is much more potent.

[QUOTE=Red]
I used to regularly spar with girls many years my junior, and they kicked my backside all over the place. Fighting ability is not decided by your physical prowess, nor sex. Yes, men & women are born with certain genetic attributes that initially seperate them, but that 'gap' has been proven easy to overcome.[/QUOTE]Those girls that can kick your backside are the exception. It is easy for [i]exceptional individuals [/i]to overcome the gap, but the vast majority (~99%) are trapped in the ways I have stated above.

Retribution, you may feel that you don't need someone to complete you, but how close have you gotten to someone? I've found my woman, and I need her like I need air. Two years ago, I would have agreed with you. Love can do amazing things, and I hope you are prepared for it when the time comes.

EDIT: Oh, Caesura, you reminded me of something. I give phsycial beauty to women, no contest. I don't take pride in my physical strength, but I will defend my right to be fat, ugly, and porcine in nature to the death:animesmil

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Adahn]
[font=Verdana][size=2]Poor, misguided Sandy. I only identified the one difference I see between males and females (physical strength) in terms of ability. It is an observation, and not one I'm bragging about. I see women, and their bodies just scream "weak, vulnerable, helpless." It is not their fault, it's our society's. Don't get so beat up about my statement. Your aversion to it says more about you than it does me.[/size][/font][/QUOTE]

Err, I wasn't beat up by your statement, I was trying to bring up a different point of view. :/ Nobody's getting personal here...

But when [I]I[/I] see women, their acclaimed physical weakness doesn't even cross my mind. Okay, my own muscles are flaccid as a flan, but still, you must be a bodybuilder or something if you compare bodies like [I]that[/I].

And seriously, quit that "fight for life" thing, people! Life isn't a videogame, no random man (or a woman) is going to come around the corner and just beat you up for no reason in the brought daylight! Okay, it [I]could[/I] happen, but what are the odds, honestly?

Apparently it's so that if women put too much emphasis on their appearance, men obviously are overly concerned by their brawn... :P

In modern society physical strength doesn't really matter anymore. Muscles don't stop bullets, for an example. Also, solving problems with violence is quite illegal.

I quarantee, quick wits will get one much further in life than hulking muscles. Intelligence is also natural for both sexes.

I'd be more worried about sexism and enforcing of the stereotypes of sexes, but those can be affected by upbringing - the same way they are absorbed into thinking.

[Red]

[quote name='Adahn']Fighting for your life and fighting because you're angry are different. I'm speaking of the former, where (for whatever reason) the situation involves my opponent's intent to kill me.[/quote]

Not really. It still boils down to the fact that you'll be hitting someone and vice versa. Fighting is normally the byproduct of anger, the situation is irrelevant until you have to explain or justify your actions.

[quote]As 'male-biased' and 'judgmental' as my statement is, I believe it to be true. The point is that women are constructed to be weak in our society. If I had things my way, my future wife and my sister would be as strong as I am. I see women as vulnerable because American society forces them to be vulnerable. They cannot survive socially in our country if they do not succumb to feminine ideals.[/quote]

Believing it to be true is precisely why I called it those two things. American society does not force anybody to be anything. There are people who still hold certain values to do with family living far too close to heart, and some women are pulled into that way of life through experiences of their own family units; but succumbing to feminine ideals?

Who decides what the feminine ideals are? The individual woman! There's not a lifestyle trap that every single woman in America will fall into - they can choose to sidestep it should they so wish. A person does not have to conform to a view they may regard as backward, even if it's held by a grand majority.

And what in the world do you mean by survive socially? It seems to me that they do just fine. The idea that there is immense pressure for a woman to fulfil a certain role is one that is still holding society back.

[quote]If this obsession with feminine weakness were not a part of our culture, I would estimate that no less than 25% of women my age would be able to hold their own against me. Genetics plays a role in the construction of women as weak, but our society's role is much more potent.[/quote]

Er, no, it's not. If society put it's hand in the fire, would you do it too? Nobody [i]has[/i] to do or become anything.

What obsession with feminine weakness, by the way? The only place where I've seen even remotely similar is back home in Ireland - a very small town where nigh on every single elderly woman has been the housewife for 30 years plus. Even among a population that still regards the 50's as the good ol' days, their views on women have rapidly changed due to events over recent years.

In 19 years, I've met maybe three people who to the core, think that women are naturally weak. I could make a grand statistic out of that and pass it off as fact, but I won't, because I can't tell what the entire countries views on women are at this particular moment.

[quote]Those girls that can kick your backside are the exception. It is easy for [i]exceptional individuals [/i]to overcome the gap, but the vast majority (~99%) are trapped in the ways I have stated above.[/quote]

O_o; dear monkeys. I really hope I'm reading what you're saying the wrong way.

How exactly do you know all this, and where is your evidence? Pulling what seem to be entirely random numbers out of thin air doesn't make a cohesive argument for your point.

[wayofthreversed]

HMM..... I would have to say that there are not too many differences in what I would expect from a woman or a man. Being a guy that is not overly large (in fact from what the body mass index says I am Under Weight for a woman of my height). I am still more than a match for someone who is going to try to fight me, Male or Female, although I prefer to resolve things in a none physical way because I do not like to injure others. I would ether try to get out of/avoid a situation like that with a guy. (I know that this sounds horrible but..) And with a girl I would try to charm her into not hitting me or I would just allow her to hit me because I would not hit her back :animenose .

As for mentally I do not see men as more intelligent then women I only see people who are ether not as or more intelligent then me.

[Adahn]

[quote name='Red']Not really. It still boils down to the fact that you'll be hitting someone and vice versa. Fighting is normally the byproduct of anger, the situation is irrelevant until you have to explain or justify your actions.[/quote] My clarification of 'fighting' was only for the purpose of putting myself in a situation where I would fight a girl. I'd fight a girl if she had the intention and ability to cause me great harm.

[QUOTE=Red]
Believing it to be true is precisely why I called it those two things. [b]American society does not force anybody to be anything.[/b] There are people who still hold certain values to do with family living far too close to heart, and some women are pulled into that way of life through experiences of their own family units; but succumbing to feminine ideals? [/QUOTE] Red, your arguments indicate that you are very uninformed. I'm in a Sociology class, and have read many, many articles illustrating how gender is constructed in our society. If you seriously want evidence, I will be happy to name for you the specific articles with a brief summary on their applicability.

The overwhelming evidence gathered by sociologists supports the fact that aspects of femininity and masculinity are social requirements. For your benefit, I will attempt to describe it for you.

Throw away your masculinity. Back down from every confrontation. Take every insult you hear and don't return anything. Stop dressing the way boys dress. Stop talking the way boys talk. Start wearing dresses and start conversations with your friends about Soap Operas. Defy all the unwritten rules of masculinity, and tell me who you have become to our society.

You will be seen as worthless. People will ignore you or ostracize you. People will hate you. Everyone around you will turn on you. And now after considering all this, tell me again that [b]American society does not force anybody to be anything.[/b]

[QUOTE=Red]
[b] Who decides what the feminine ideals are? The individual woman![/b] There's not a lifestyle trap that every single woman in America will fall into - they can choose to sidestep it should they so wish. A person does not have to conform to a view they may regard as backward, even if it's held by a grand majority.[/QUOTE] You're honestly telling me that femininity has nothing to do with society? You want to tell me that women [b]choose[/b] to stay skinny and petite? Women stress about their weight because they want to? They dread being fat because of their own aversion to it? Girls start going on diets before they enter middle school because it's their decision?

You're telling me that women choose to hate their bodies? And one more thing, don't tell me that women don't hate their bodies, because women's concern about beauty is so alien to you and I that we cannot imagine doing the things they do to themselves.

[QUOTE=Red]
And what in the world do you mean by survive socially? It seems to me that they do just fine. The idea that there is immense pressure for a woman to fulfil a certain role is one that is still holding society back.[/QUOTE] It is your opinion that there is no pressure on women to fulfill their feminine role that keeps America blind to the very real problems women face daily.

[QUOTE=Red]
Er, no, it's not. If society put it's hand in the fire, would you do it too? Nobody [i]has[/i] to do or become anything.[/QUOTE] Show me that you don't have to uphold the rules of masculinity to live in our society, and I'll believe you.

[QUOTE=Red]
What obsession with feminine weakness, by the way? The only place where I've seen even remotely similar is back home in Ireland - a very small town where nigh on every single elderly woman has been the housewife for 30 years plus. Even among a population that still regards the 50's as the good ol' days, their views on women have rapidly changed due to events over recent years.[/QUOTE] If you go to college, look at the women around you. Almost all of them are soft and fragile. How many of them could beat you in an arm-wrestling match?

[QUOTE=Red]
In 19 years, I've met maybe three people who to the core, think that women are naturally weak. I could make a grand statistic out of that and pass it off as fact, but I won't, because I can't tell what the entire countries views on women are at this particular moment.[/QUOTE] I've said that society makes them weak in a way that genetics cannot match.

[QUOTE=Red]
How exactly do you know all this, and where is your evidence? Pulling what seem to be entirely random numbers out of thin air doesn't make a cohesive argument for your point.[/QUOTE] I know this because I've read hours upon hours of literature by Doctors in the field of Sociology. My 'random numbers' (so far 99%, 1% and 25%) are my own estimates, and I never said they were statistically sound in any other way.

I made the incorrect assumption that everybody knew what was going on around them due to my immersion in the subject. I apologize for this, and if it is absolutely necessary, I will quote specific articles to press my point. I could just say 'take my word for it', but I think another statement will be more useful for your understanding. Open your eyes.

Sandy, what are the odds that a woman will be raped in her lifetime? 1 in 4, according to statistics. How many rapes that occur could be prevented if strength in women were socially acceptable? I don't even want to guess, because I hate rape with such a passion that learning society's role in its perpetuation would make of me a deviant bent on the destruction of our society. Physical strength/skill are effective preventative measures to sexual assault. How many stories of wife beatings would we have if women had the physical strength to stand up for themselves?

I understand why you think it is unimportant for [i]me[/i] to be physically strong, but surely you can see the personal benefits of strength for women, Sandy.

[Stark]

Wow. That was a rant. :animeswea

Anyway, I'm not one to disagree with those points made, they are very valid. I myself haven't spent much time studying the subject, but I do realize that there are all of these unwritten rules in our world that people are brought up in compliance with.

You notice it with babies--"Oh! He's such a strong little boy!" or "Oh, she's such a sweet little girl!"

It's how we are brought up. Don't start throwing around genetics, please. Nature may have given us the ability somewhere inside, but people are brought up in such a way that they don't see it anymore. Girls are taught that they will never be quite as good at math as boys, and that it's perfectly all right to be 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'. Boys are brought up with the rough-and-tumble ideal that people call 'masculinity', and that it's perfectly all right to cheat on his wife/get drunk and cause a fight/ be a complete a**hole when he so feels/ et cetera.

A promiscuous man is called a 'player'. A promiscuous girl is called a 'whore'. What's the difference?

And it's not 'taught' as in taught at school. It's taught through the images you see on TV and movies. It's how society acts as a whole, and people pick up on that.

Notice how it's always the 'damsel in distress' image you see in fairy tales and on cartoons. How come the girl never saves the boy? Hm?

Just a thought. But, if someone can answer that, I'd be most appreciative.